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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
First Lady Under Fire; Manhunt Intensifies for Escaped Felon
Aired August 09, 2010 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us tonight.
The first lady under fire -- Michelle Obama's trip to sunny Spain and the heat she's getting for it back home. The White House says she's a private citizen, but, if that's true, how come it cost us so much? Was this the latest in a string of tone-deaf moves by the White House? And just how out of the ordinary was either the trip or the controversy? We're "Keeping Them Honest."
Also tonight: The manhunt intensifies. One convict on the run is caught. But an escaped felon and his cousin, who's also his lover, ho allegedly helped him get out, are still on the run, considered armed and dangerous. The latest on the manhunt and some answers to question we all need answered: Are private prisons, like the ones these escaped from, putting public safety in jeopardy?
And later: supermodel Naomi Campbell, a bag of diamonds, and a dictator -- she swears she didn't know anything. But today actress Mia Farrow and another actress said Campbell is not telling the truth. So, the question tonight, who is lying? You can judge for yourself.
We begin, though, tonight "Keeping Them Honest" with the first lady under fire for her trip to Spain with first daughter Sasha. They're back. The controversy, however, isn't over? A modern-day Marie Antoinette, one writers claims, calling her "Material Girl Michelle." The first lady's vacation from empathy, writes another. Let him, meaning the president, eat cake alone, writes Maureen Dowd in "The New York Times."
Some pundits claim she travelled with 40 friends. In fact, an official told "The New York Times" it was two, plus their daughters. The rest of the rooms booked at a fancy hotel were for Mrs. personal staff and a large Secret Service detail. Here's the hotel, five-star hotel, one of the best in Spain, with a room costing anywhere from $500 to more than $6,000 a night.
And here's how they travelled, an Air Force 757. Now, the White House insists Mrs. Obama and her friends paid their own bills, reimbursing the government for the cost of first-class airplane tickets, but the government, meaning taxpayers, picked up the tab for the entourage.
Now, when asked about the trip, this was the White House response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The first lady is on a private trip. She's -- she's a private citizen and is the mother of a daughter on a private trip. And I think -- I think I would leave it at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A private trip, perhaps, but it involves significant public expense. And to simply say Mrs. Obama is a private figure, well, that's not really true. Mrs. Obama may not get a salary, but she has a significant public role in the White House. She has a large staff. She's spokesperson for causes and is used as a political asset in the presidential campaign.
Even supporters of the White House can't help but cringe a little at the timing of this trip, with the economy suffering and job losses growing. In addition to that, Mrs. Obama just told Americans to vacation down in the Gulf. But the first family first vacationed in Maine and now on a beach in Spain.
And, yes, they will be spending time in the Florida Gulf Coast later this week. But to many in the region, it seems too little too late. Mrs. Obama is not the first first lady to take off on her own with her kids. Laura Bush took her daughters to Africa on safari. It was called an official visit, but like just about any such trip, it's always a mixed bag.
She took a lot of lower-key vacations, as well, Laura Bush did, mostly to national parks. They were in the United States, and so low- key, few people paid much attention. Other first ladies have been compared to Marie Antoinette. Nancy Reagan, you will remember, got slammed for picking out White House china with the economy hurting. It cost taxpayers nothing. It was paid for by private funds, but it was said to be tone-deaf because of the economy.
Even first lady Jackie Kennedy was attacked for spending two weeks on a yacht owned by Aristotle Onassis in the Mediterranean in October 1963. Now, we're not saying that a luxury trip to Spain is the same as being on a yacht, only that it's nothing new and nothing all that unusual.
And neither is the backlash to it, which is why the White House seems so flat-footed on this one and disingenuous when their only response is that she's a private citizen.
Joining us now are political analyst Roland Martin and contributor Erick Erickson, editor in chief of RedState.com.
Roland, the first lady has the right to do -- go to Spain if she wants, instead of Florida. But just because she can do something doesn't mean you should do it. Given the mood out there right now and the economy, should she have chosen at least a place here in America?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't care. I don't care what Laura Bush did, Nancy Reagan did, any of those folks did. She's not the president of the United States. I mean, we could have -- we could take this very same example and frankly apply it to the last three, four, five, six years. Should President Bush have spent so much time at Crawford, Texas, when the economy was tanking, when Wall Street was doing whatever?
This to me is one of those ridiculous stories that really has no bearing on anybody's daily life, and it really has no effect whatsoever.
COOPER: Erick, obviously, a lot of people feel differently. There is a big uproar about this online, people talking about it, angered that -- about the expense.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICK ERICKSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
You know, back when Bush picked Cheney, everyone talked about gravitas. And then during the Social Security and the immigration debate, they used the word the Kabuki dance. And this week, everyone's talking about optics all of a sudden. I don't know where they come up with the terms, but everybody is talking about optics.
And it was bad optics this week, with the economy the way it is, to have Michelle Obama over there. Frankly, I agree with Roland that this really doesn't affect everybody. Taxpayer money was used, but the big issue to me is, it took the White House five days or so of this being the top story on Matt Drudge before they came out and said, oh, she's taking a friend overseas whose father died. It was only three of them. It was not 40 of them.
It took them so long to respond, the damage is really done. And it does look bad, given this time. And then have you got the "People" magazine set wanting to know why she is gone and the president was spending his birthday alone.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Well, actually, I don't necessarily know who really cares because it was on Matt Drudge.
I'm sorry. I don't go to his Web site. He doesn't drive my opinion. Now, he might drive public opinion in terms of the far right. But, again, he had it. So what?
See, what you have here is, you have a lot of people, frankly, in our nice little media beltway, New York and Washington, D.C., where this whole thing gets going and all gets stirred up. But, really, at the end of the day, this is the first lady taking a trip with her daughter. And so, sure, people are online talking about it, but I have read from folks online who said, I really don't care about it as well.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: So, how do you measure that? ERICKSON: Yes, but, you know, I'm not in D.C. or Washington, and I'm in Macon, Georgia, and there were a lot of people at church on Sunday wondering why the president's wife would do this to him. Is she mad at him or something?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: And I'm in Dallas in the Bible Belt. And you know what? Folks necessarily wasn't -- they weren't talking about this story at all. They have been talking more about the heat wave that's been going on across the country.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: So, it really boils down to is, what does it really matter?
COOPER: Well, Roland, let me ask you about what President Obama now seems to be doing in speeches repeatedly. He's had a lot of tough comments now about former President Bush. Tonight, he's been hitting him pretty hard. Over the last couple weeks, he's been hitting him pretty hard.
Democrats have been saying for months now, we want to make this election about President Bush. How wise a strategy is that, really? At this point, should President Obama still be blaming President Bush?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: It's called politics. I mean, look, you had Republicans who were still -- who today still blame Bill Clinton for any number of things.
And what you do is, when you're in the political arena, you obviously want to shift the conversation to the opposition.
COOPER: Right. But my question is, will it work? It's been a year-and-a-half.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, again -- well, first of all, we don't necessarily know if it will work. It really hasn't worked thus far, in terms of you look at, has it decreased the enthusiasm gap between Republicans and Democrats?
The polling data also will show people that, frankly, see the economy as -- people will see the economy as really being the president's economy, because he's been there, frankly, when midterms come around, two years.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Erick?
ERICKSON: Yes. You know, I think we do know whether it works or not. If we look back to Bill Clinton, in August of 1994, he began campaigning, saying the Republicans were going to take us back to George Bush debt. I mean, history repeating itself. Now we have Barack Obama doing the same thing.
It didn't really work in 1994.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But polls do say that more people still blame President Bush for this economy than blame Obama.
ERICKSON: Look, the polls also say -- CNN's own polling -- and I agree with it -- say more Republicans blame Republicans than independents blame Republicans.
There's a lot of it to go around. But, in 1994, you know, it didn't work so well, and I don't think it's going to work that well now.
COOPER: Well, we're going to leave it there.
Erick Erickson...
MARTIN: When you're in politics, you shift the blame.
COOPER: Roland Martin...
MARTIN: That's what you do. You shift the blame.
COOPER: ... appreciate it.
Let me know what you think. Join the live chat right now at AC360.com.
Up next: new developments in the manhunt for two people, new arrests, and serious questions about privately owned prisons, like the one she alleged -- this woman allegedly helped him break out of. They're cousins actually and lovers. It doesn't get stranger than that. A lot of private prisons out there these days, how secure are they? We will talk about that. And we will have the latest on the manhunt for her and her accomplice.
Also tonight: You have probably heard the legend of Pat Tillman. And you might have heard the revised official version, then the testimony before Congress, some of it, most of it, well, lies, say the family, cover-up. Pat's family never stood for it and has never stopped looking for the truth.
We're going to talk to Pat Tillman Sr. tonight about where the investigation stands, the family's investigation, and the answers and what they believe is still a cover-up that no one's really been held accountable for.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, they're on the run. They won't go lightly. That's what a U.S. Marshal says about this pair, John McCluskey and Casslyn Welch. Reportedly, not only are they lovers. They're also cousins.
He was serving a 15-year sentence for attempted murder at a privately run prison in Arizona when she allegedly threw tools over the fence, helping him, a guy named Daniel Renwick and another guy, Tracy Province, escape.
Province was captured today in Wyoming near Yellowstone National Park. He's been serving a life term for murder and armed robbery. Officers caught Renwick last week.
But McCluskey and Welch are believed to be driving a gray Nissan Sentra.
Separately, Arizona's attorney general, just a short time ago announcing accomplish charges against McCluskey's mother and ex-wife. as for where the fugitives are, officials believe they might be trying to link up with white supremacists in the Pacific Northwest. The search area extends all the way to Canada.
"Up Close" tonight: The other spotlight is firmly on the privately run prison that they broke out of.
Here to talk about it is Paul Wright, editor of "Prison Legal News" and the book "Prison Profiteers," also former FBI Assistant Director Thomas Fuentes.
Tom, let me start off with you.
In terms of the investigation, what does a manhunt like this look like on the ground? Where do you think it is at this point?
TOM FUENTES, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, normally, Anderson, one of the first steps is to look at family members to see if the fugitives attempt to link up with a family member to obtain money and assistance.
And that's exactly what you have here, with McCluskey going to his mother and then getting some undisclosed amount of funds from her. The difficulty that creates is that investigators also try to determine, are they using credit cards? Where is the locations where those cards were used, say, to obtain gasoline or -- or bus tickets or train tickets or some other funding?
And so if they have cash in hand, that eliminates that electronic trail, until they run out of it. It also later will create the problem of, when they run out of funding, acts of violence to continue having vehicles, having ability to move around.
COOPER: Paul, these folks broke out of basically a privately run prison. Are privately run prisons less well-controlled? I mean, are they easier to break out of? PAUL WRIGHT, EDITOR, "PRISON LEGAL NEWS": Yes. Actually, the 20-plus year history of the private prison industry has they are been significantly unsafer than government-run prisons...
COOPER: Why?
WRIGHT: ... and have a much higher rate -- Why? Because the whole model is premised on cutting costs. And the biggest operating expense in running a prison is on staffing.
And one of the ways how the private prison companies cut their costs is, they understaff their prisons. They pay their employees less, give them very little in the way of benefits, which leads to high staff turnover. So, they have basically less employees that are less well-trained, and less of them.
And this case is just another in a long history of escapes, murders and other incidents that endanger public safety. That's basically been the calling card of the private prison industry in this country.
COOPER: Tom, the U.S. Marshal say that these two, McCluskey and the other, compare themselves to Bonnie and Clyde, consider themselves sort of a Bonnie and Clyde. Why is that significant? Why would that matter?
FUENTES: Well, the reason that would matter is, if they truly believe that, Bonnie and Clyde wanted to be notorious. They wanted to kill people and be known for being violent, for being dangerous and being famous, as opposed to an escape where they're trying to escape by stealth and sneak away, sneak out of state, sneak out of the country, if they can, undetected.
So, the Bonnie and Clyde, if that's true, if that's not just something that McCluskey -- McCluskey hyped himself with, would be significant.
COOPER: Yes, I'm not sure how he would know that information, unless that's something that came from -- from the other two who were brought back.
But, certainly, they would have tried to get as much information. Do we know if the two who they have apprehended are talking?
FUENTES: I don't know.
COOPER: OK.
FUENTES: But, certainly, they will be hoping for their cooperation to have a better idea of who McCluskey might be in touch with and where he might be headed.
COOPER: So, Paul, if private prisons are part of the problem, what is -- what is the solution here? I mean, should -- should criminals with violent records be held in -- in private prisons? WRIGHT: Well, I think the better solution is just simply eliminate the private prison industry, because this is not the first time that we have had an experiment with private prisons. Private prisons have been around for a long time.
They were basically abolished in the 1920s over basically public outrage over corruption, incidents like this that endanger public safety. And they made a comeback in the 1980s. And we're currently seeing that, time after time after time, public safety is endangered.
And what we have here is a case of public profit, but public safety is at risk, families like the Haases, these people that were apparently murdered when these people escaped from prison. That's the type of thing that endangers public safety.
But prisoners are also at risk. These public prisons have much higher rates of assaults, murders and escapes that endanger everyone. And I think the key thing to remember is, this business model is one where profit and fiduciary duty of the company is to their shareholders. It is not to you. It is not to me. It is not to the other taxpayers that pay their salaries, unlike the FBI...
COOPER: Right.
WRIGHT: ... or public prisons, where they do have a duty to the public.
COOPER: Paul Wright, Tom Foreman, appreciate both your expertise. Thanks very much.
We're going to continue to cover the manhunt.
And up next on the program; Craigslist and underaged prostitutes, the update to our special investigation, and what the man who founded the site says about the accusations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMBER LYON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look at this ad. It says, young, sexy, sweet and bubbly. Clearly, here, she writes $250 an hour.
I mean, what do you think she's selling in her bra and underwear, a dinner date? And she's in her bra and underwear. What are you guys doing?
CRAIG NEWMARK, FOUNDER, CRAIGSLIST: Have you reported this to us?
LYON: But you guys say you screen all these ads manually in your blog.
NEWMARK: Have you -- I have never -- I don't know what this is.
LYON: In Jim Buckmaster's blog, he says these are being screened.
NEWMARK: Have you reported -- have you reported this to us?
LYON: Why do I have the responsibility to report this to you when it's your Web site? You are the one posting this online.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also tonight: Was she caught in a lie? Naomi Campbell testified that she didn't know who sent her blood diamonds. But Mia Farrow says Campbell knew the diamonds were from a dictator now on trial -- the controversy ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: With more than 50 million new ads each month -- classified ads -- Craigslist is the most popular site on the Internet to buy stuff.
But law enforcement officials say the Web site is profiting from prostitution. And, just days ago, Craigslist lost a bid to stop South Carolina from looking into that claim.
Now, Craigslist is not liable for content posted on their site, by law. But the CEO of Craigslist and the company has said that they monitor the site and they try to take down anything and they will take down anything that raises questions or that look like prostitution.
Well, tonight, in part because of our report, there are new calls to actually close Craigslist's adult services section, following fresh accusations that underage kids -- or underage prostitutes are being sold on the site.
Today, Craigslist's CEO responded to the charges.
Amber Lyon has the 360 "Follow."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
"JESSICA," AGE 20, SELLS SEX ON CRAIGSLIST: I don't know. The men just disgust me. Everything about them, they disgust me. You know, doing the things I do with them is just not, like I said, what I pictured myself doing when I was a kid. You know, I wanted to work with animals, and -- or be a meteorologist or a doctor or something, not a whore.
(LAUGHTER)
LYON: Why Craigslist?
JESSICA: Craigslist is just the quickest, fastest, easiest way to get money.
LYON (voice-over): We found 20-year-old Jessica after spotting her ad on the Virginia adult services section of Craigslist.
(on camera): So, you spend most of your life in a hotel room like this? JESSICA: For the past two to three years, yes.
LYON: How many guys do you sleep with on an average day?
JESSICA: Three to five on an average day.
LYON: How -- how much money is that?
JESSICA: I get $150 for a half-an-hour and $250 for the hour. That's what I charge, I mean.
LYON (voice-over): Jessica says she and most of the girls she knows who sell sex on Craigslist are being trafficked by pimps, who take their money and their freedom.
(on camera): What would happen if they said, you know, I'm sick of this, I'm done selling myself on Craigslist, I want to leave?
JESSICA: I can't leave. I cannot leave. I'm his. I'm his property. He owns me. I cannot leave him. And that's how it is with most girls, I would think. They can't.
LYON: Since our investigation aired last week, anti-sex- trafficking organizations took out an ad in "The Washington Post." And, in it, two girls who claim they were sold for sex on Craigslist plea with Craig to shut down the adult services section. They even address the letter to Craig.
One of the girls says: "I was sold for sex by the hour at truck stops and cheap motels, 10 hours with 10 different men every night. This became my life. Men answered the Craigslist advertisements and paid to rape me."
Another one of these girls was underage when she was being sold on Craigslist. And she writes: "Dear Craig, I am M.C. I was first forced into prostitution when I was 11 years old by a 28-year-old man. I am not an exception."
So, Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster wrote a response to the "Washington Post" ad. He wrote this blog.
(voice-over): Buckmaster says: "Craigslist is anxious to know that the perpetrators in these girls' cases are behind bars." He asks the advocates to e-mail him the police reports, so "Craigslist can improve preventative measures."
CNN has seen the police report for the so-called A.K. M.C. is still a minor, so her records could not be released, but two sources tell us they have seen her arrest records for prostitution.
This is Malika with The Rebecca Project, and her organization posted that ad in "The Washington Post."
MALIKA SAADA SAAR, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE REBECCA PROJECT: I think that it's also important for him to acknowledge the stories of these girls are true. It's thoughtful that he wants to catch the perpetrators. I think, if he wants to catch perpetrators, then he ought to develop better screening processes, so that children aren't raped and sold online.
LYON: Sex-for-hire ads are against Craigslist's stated policy. The company says it -- quote -- "manually screens all adult services ads" and will reject any ads that look or sound like they are selling sex.
We caught up with the Craig in Craigslist, Craig Newmark, at a speech he was giving in Washington, D.C., on trust. He agreed to this interview on trust on the Internet.
(on camera): What are you guys doing to protect these girls? You guys say in the blog that you will remove any ad that looks like the person might be suggesting they're going to offer sex. Look at this ad. It says, "Young, sexy, sweet and bubbly." Clearly, here, she writes $250 an hour. I mean, what do you think she's selling in her bra and underwear, a dinner date? And she's in her bra and underwear.
What are you guys doing?
NEWMARK: Have you reported this to us?
LYON: But you guys say you screen all these ads manually in your blog.
NEWMARK: Have you -- I have never -- I don't know what this is.
LYON: In Jim Buckmaster's blog, he says these are being screened.
NEWMARK: Have you reported -- have you reported this to us?
LYON: Why do I have the responsibility to report this to you, when it's your Web site? You are the one posting this online.
(voice-over): Under the Communications Decency Act, Craigslist is not liable for what users publish on its site. But if Craigslist knows it's happening and vows to stop it, why do they allow it to continue?
Victims' advocates say it's about one thing: money. The Internet research firm AIM Group projects the site will make $36.5 million, a third of its total revenue, from the adult services ads this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Amber, it's interesting. I mean, to me, the issue is not whether they should close the adult services site, because, by law, as you say, they're not liable for it.
The issue to me is, if they promise to monitor the content, and then they don't live up to that promise, you know, either don't promise it or do what you say you're going to do.
Did Craigslist respond to your piece last week that kind of exposed a lot of this?
LYON: Yes, well, they did actually respond, Anderson.
Craigslist CEO -- not Craig Newmark, but CEO Jim Buckmaster -- he wrote us, and in that he said that: "We will continue to work tirelessly in tandem with law enforcement and key nonprofits to ensure that any victims receive the assistance they desperately need and deserve, and that those responsible are imprisoned."
And you noticed, just on your point, Anderson, in that, Jim Buckmaster says they work tirelessly with law enforcement. Well, we have been conducting the majority of this investigation out of Washington, D.C. It's one of the worst cities in the nation for sex trafficking.
We spoke with the local P.D. here. They say they have never been contacted by Craigslist, and Craigslist is not working tirelessly to help them out in their investigations.
COOPER: Interesting.
Amber Lyon, appreciate the report. Thanks.
We're following several other stories right now making news.
Let's go to Joe Johns with a 360 bulletin -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a light at the end of the tunnel in the BP disaster. Officials leading the operations in the Gulf said one of two relief wells could be completed by the end of the week. Also today, BP said the cost of the cleanup and containment efforts is now at $6.1 billion.
A violation of rules was the charge that the House Ethics Committee made today against Congresswoman Maxine Waters. The 10-term Democrat from California is accused of trying to get Washington to give millions in bailout funds to a bank her husband owned stock in.
After nearly a month in the hospital, Dick Cheney is back at his Virginia home tonight. The former vice president was released earlier today. A small pump was implanted in his heart in July. The surgery came just months after Cheney's fifth heart attack. Wishing him the best.
COOPER: Yes, glad he's home.
Joe Johns, thanks.
New information tonight on the U.S. military cover-up over the death of Pat Tillman. How high did the cover-up go? Why was the only one an already -- the only fall guy, basically, a general who had already retired? What about Donald Rumsfeld? What about Stanley McChrystal, the others who were leading the military at the time? We are going to talk to Pat -- Pat Tillman's dad about the new evidence that seems to lay out the lies -- the "Big 360 Interview" ahead. Plus, supermodel Naomi Campbell, did she tell the truth on the witness stand in a war crimes trial? New testimony today by actress Mia Farrow that directly contradicts what Campbell swore to under oath -- so, who's telling the truth? You can judge for yourself tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: You're about to meet a father who's still searching for justice, searching for answers in the shooting death of his son. His son was former NFL safety Pat Tillman, a charismatic young man who gave up his football career to join the Army Rangers. He was killed in Afghanistan by his fellow Rangers. The official term is fratricide, and the Army ultimately issued a finding of gross negligence.
But exactly what happened to Tillman is still not agreed upon by the Tillman family. There was a cover-up, and the story the rest of the world and the Tillman family were told after his death was a lie.
Just as military officials made up stories about Private Jessica Lynch to boost morale and create a patriotic narrative, Army officials initially said Pat Tillman was killed in a firefight with insurgents, that he saved his fellow Rangers by sacrificing himself. The media ate up that story, and members of the Bush White House and military clearly hoped to use Pat Tillman's death to rally support for the war.
The cover up began. Pat Tillman's uniform was burned, evidence destroyed. Even some of Pat Tillman's fellow soldiers were told to lie about what happened to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They told me, you need to keep your mouth shut about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was told, your career's on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When somebody tells me something in the Army, you salute and, you know, about face and go get it done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What they said happened didn't happen. And so you have to set the record straight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Pat Tillman's mom.
So many people in the military and government lied, and their lies would have gone unnoticed if it wasn't for Pat Tillman's mom and his dad and the other members of his family who took it upon themselves to find and demand the truth. They're still searching. The record is being set, though, in a devastating new documentary called "The Tillman Family." It's going to be released in theaters around the country.
I talked about the lies and the cover-ups today with Pat Tillman Sr. It's "The Big 360 Interview."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Mr. Tillman, thank you very much for being with us.
First of all, I want to start just by apologizing, because after watching this documentary and reviewing the media coverage of your son's death and the aftermath of it, I feel like every member of the media should apologize for the role that the media played in basically supporting the Bush administration and the military's cover-up. I mean, the media, along with everybody else, played into this myth making that completely was antithetical to not only who your son was, but also to what happened to him.
P. TILLMAN: Well, I won't disagree with that. We tried to get quite a few of the major media organizations involved in it. And basically spoon fed this stuff to a lot of people, and we got -- we call them fluff pieces. We got -- it's a cold, blustery day stuff. And they refused to address the points that we wanted to address. The primary one being that there was a homicide investigation that was falsified.
COOPER: And not only falsified, but I mean, for months and months and months, it was left up to your family to investigate this doggedly. And that's what you all did, going through the redacted material, and basically learning as close as possible to finding out exactly what happened to your son.
And still, even after you wrote a letter to the military, basically pointing out all the factual inaccuracies, they launched another investigation and ended up blaming one lieutenant general, Kensinger, who had retired, perhaps not coincidentally. They removed one of his stars, and they said, basically, that's it, investigation over.
P. TILLMAN: That was it. And he was the captain of the ship. And everybody else walked, including McChrystal and, as far as I'm concerned, Don Rumsfeld. I mean, I believe this thing went way up -- way up high.
COOPER: I want to show our viewers this P4 memo, which is really the smoking gun in all this. This is a memo that General Stanley McChrystal, who now everybody now knows about because now he's been removed from command. But General Stanley McChrystal sent this memo out, I believe seven days after your son's death, and it was sent to the White House. It was sent to all the top generals stateside and around the world.
And it basically says that, you know, because of questions -- that this may be a friendly fire death, that the president and others, when talking about the death of your son should be vague and should not go into details about the circumstances of his death, correct?
P. TILLMAN: That's correct. But you may want to look at that another angle, as well. Not only was it notification to these folks, but I believe those folks that he sent the P4 to, to whom they sent the P4 were already on notice of Pat's death and the circumstances around it. I think that General McChrystal sent that as a CYA letter, so that things don't get back to him. I don't believe that was the only involvement he had.
COOPER: One of the most stunning things, when looking back on this, is the testimony given by Donald Rumsfeld, given by General Abizaid, given by General Myers. I mean, this is sworn testimony about when they were notified or when they learned that your son was killed by friendly fire. And basically -- we're going to play a clip from the documentary, but I mean, they all claimed complete ignorance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me conclude the hearing by just indicating the facts that General Myers and General Brown knew at the end of April. General Abizaid learned on May 6. Secretary Rumsfeld learned on May 20...
DONALD RUMSFELD, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Sir, can I make a point here? I want to make sure it's precisely accurate. I do not believe I testified that I learned on May 20. And if I -- if that impression has been left, I don't want that left. My testimony is that I -- I just simply do not know when I first learned of the possibility.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate that correction.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, U.S. ARMY: Sir, if I may, I also wanted to make sure that the sixth is a logical day. It's not the day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
ABIZAID: It's the best that my staff and I could -- could come to a conclusion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were all very busy. There was no question about it.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, FORMER JOINT STAFFS CHIEF: Sir, one other thing, if I could interrupt. Also correct that your statement was that I knew about the friendly fire. I knew that there was an investigation ongoing about the potential for friendly fire.
ABIZAID: That goes for me, too.
RUMSFELD: And for me, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, these guys are tripping over themselves to, you know, have deniability. To basically say, "Well, look, I don't know, I don't recall. My fax machine was broken."
P. TILLMAN: Yes, these are very senior people, and that to me is an embarrassment. Those are the people that we have running the war. Or had running the war.
COOPER: Still. I mean, still in some cases.
P. TILLMAN: Yes. I thought it was ridiculous. But even worse was the panel of people that were -- I guess it would be called stage right at that same hearing that spent so much time just kissing Donald Rumsfeld and those generals -- we're so happy you're here. We're so glad to see you, and -- that was -- it was disgusting.
COOPER: You're talking about the politicians?
P. TILLMAN: It was the politicians.
COOPER: Do you mind if I play something that Richard had said at the memorial service?
P. TILLMAN: Oh, please do.
COOPER: OK. I just want to play -- this is your son Richard, Pat's brother, some of what he said at this memorial service.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD TILLMAN, PAT TILLMAN'S BROTHER: Yes, I'm not just going to sit up here and break down on you. But thank you for coming. Pat's a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) champion, and always will be. Just making a mistake. He'd want me to say this: he's not with God, he's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) dead. He's not religious. So thanks for your thoughts, but he's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What do you make of how your son has been used?
P. TILLMAN: Well, to start with, I thought Richard's speech was the most eloquent of the bunch.
COOPER: You think they would have liked to have used him?
P. TILLMAN: They certainly tried. They certainly tried. And that is just -- I mean, it's shameful stuff.
COOPER: It is certainly clear that the military did not know who they were dealing with. Not only with your son, but also with you and your ex-wife and Pat Tillman's wife and his brothers, because the work you all have done to try to set this right, at least get some form of justice has been extraordinary. And thank you for being with us.
P. TILLMAN: Well, thank you for having me on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The name of the movie is "The Tillman Story." I think I misspoke before. It's "The Tillman Story." It's going to be in the theaters on August 20. I recommend you see it. It's really just an extraordinary piece of journalism. Next, Naomi Campbell taking center stage in the war crimes trial. And tonight, the big question is whether she is telling the truth about receiving blood diamonds. We'll let you be the judge.
Also tonight, a JetBlue flight attendant who apparently just had enough. That's the guy. He tells off the passenger and grabs some beer, reportedly, and slides out on the emergency escape chute. He now has a Facebook fan page. What started it all and what happens to him now, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Today doubts raised about the testimony given by Naomi Campbell at a war crimes trial. She appeared under subpoena last week, compelled to testify against her wishes. And as she said last week on the stand, she was not happy to be there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAOMI CAMPBELL, MODEL: I'm must, like, wanting to get this over with and get on with my life. This is a big inconvenience for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Big inconvenience. There is a bigger question tonight: did she lie to the court?
Campbell was called to the stand because prosecutors believe that Taylor gave her diamonds following a 1997 charity dinner hosted by Nelson Mandela. Prosecutors say that Taylor carried the diamonds and traded them for weapons to armed rebel forces accused of committing atrocities in Sierra Leone.
Campbell testified that after that dinner in 1997, two men she did not know knocked on her door and gave her a pouch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they came to your door, did you ask them what this pouch was? What was in the pouch?
CAMPBELL: No, I took it, and I just said thank you and went back to -- shut my door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did they say anything about why they were bringing this pouch to you?
CAMPBELL: There was no explanation, no note.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you opened up this pouch, what did you discover?
CAMPBELL: I saw a few stones in there, and they were very small, dirty looking stones.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: They were diamonds, dirty, but diamonds nonetheless. Prosecutors want to prove that they were from Taylor, but Campbell says she didn't know who gave it to her. And today, two other witnesses said that she did. First, Mia Farrow. She was at the dinner. The actress testified that at breakfast the next morning Campbell all but bragged about getting them from Taylor. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIA FARROW, ACTRESS: Miss Campbell entered the room. My children and I were already eating breakfast. And as I recall it, she was quite excited and said, in effect, "Oh, my God, in the middle of the night last night" or "last night I was awakened by knocking at the door, and it was men sent by Charles Taylor, and he sent me," as I recall, "a huge diamond."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, also testifying, Campbell's former agent, Carol White, who said that Campbell was waiting for the gift. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROL WHITE, CAMPBELL'S FORMER AGENT: Naomi lent back and Charles Taylor lent forward, and Naomi was very excited and told me, "He's going to give me some diamonds."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Defense attorneys questioned Farrow's memory and White's motivation. But the question remains: did Naomi Campbell perjure herself, and if so, what happens?
Joining me now, Christopher Santora, who was a member of the prosecution team on the Taylor case at the Hague. Also with us is senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey, can you be accused of perjury at the Hague? And if so, what's the penalty?
TOOBIN: Technically you can. In fact, no one ever has. And prosecutors like Chris have incredibly difficult jobs just bringing war crimes cases. And prosecutors have simply not decided that it's worthwhile to bring perjury cases. So effectively there is no perjury prosecution, no liability for perjury in these war crimes trials.
COOPER: And what's the importance of what Naomi Campbell is being asked to testify? And Mia Farrow and the others?
CHRISTOPHER SANTORA, PROSECUTION TEAM ON CHARLES TAYLOR CASE: In relation, this is actually just one small aspect to a much larger case, and before all this attention, the prosecution called 91 witnesses to testify.
COOPER: This has been going on for years? SANTORA: This has been going on. The trial itself commenced in January of 2008. The prosecution called 91 witnesses that testified to a variety of areas in relation to the conflict. And so this was one small aspect. As you mentioned, Ms. Campbell was subpoenaed -- she did not -- to testify. She did not want to come initially after -- and did not voluntarily come before that.
COOPER: And they're trying to link the idea that Charles Taylor actually had access to diamonds. Because he has testified that he did not, correct?
SANTORA: That's correct. And as I say, this is something that we evaluate. This is just one small aspect of a larger case. There have been many -- there have been other witnesses that have testified.
COOPER: There has been extraordinary testimony about atrocities committed, I mean, basically at the hands of forces that Taylor is accused of bankrolling.
SANTORA: That's correct. And some of the -- some of the witnesses that -- Ms. Campbell mentioned how it was a great inconvenience for her to come. And you know, some of the witnesses that did come to the Hague, one was a man whose both hands were amputated, and he made it all the way up to the Hague to testify. One man watched his wife raped by eight different people and then killed. And then, on top of that, his hand was amputated.
One woman was forced to watch her children hacked to death. After the children were hacked to death, their heads were severed. And she was forced to carry a bag of their heads for a certain distance.
So this -- you know, this is now what the attention is on this trial now, because of obviously who's involved. But I think it should be emphasized that people -- you know, the testimonies that occurred before were extremely significant and extremely important.
COOPER: And the idea that -- for those who don't really understand the concept of blood diamonds, the idea is that blood diamonds fuel, just as, you know, the violence that's taking place in Eastern Congo over the last 10 years has been fueled by, you know, the drive for coltan and the drive for other, you know, tin and ore. Diamonds, the desire for them, has fuelled a lot of these conflicts.
SANTORA: Well, and I think, again, I think it's -- it's important to mention diamonds were particularly relevant to the conflict in Sierra Leone, but it wasn't only in relation to diamonds. There are also significant resource exportation of Liberia, as well, such as timber and rubber.
And Ms. Campbell probably inadvertently said it best, when she said, "I received dirty little stones, and I was expecting to see shiny in a box." It's that -- it raises a larger issue about how the consumer economy in the west relates to some of these conflicts, these conflicts where resources are a large issue. COOPER: Right. And what's fascinating to me about, for instance, in Congo, coltan, which is a mineral. Who knows what coltan is, but it's in all our cell phones. So we all sort of carry around a piece of the Congo with us, which is the case for many of these conflicts.
So, I mean, Jeffrey, if judges decide that she is, in fact, not telling the truth, or that one of the two witnesses who contradict her are not telling the truth, there's very little chance that anyone would actually be held up on perjury charges?
TOOBIN: Virtually impossible. You know, the United States is not part of the International Criminal Court. Both the Bush administration and the Obama administration have decided not to be part of that.
And there are a lot of political reasons for that, but one of the reasons is, is that our government feels that the absence of perjury prosecutions is such a loss of a check, is that it doesn't mean. It doesn't make the trial reliable enough that -- that we would want to participate in it. There are other reasons, too, but the absence of perjury prosecutions is a real act.
COOPER: How long is this trial going on, do you think? Near the end?
SANTORA: I would be guessing, but it's toward the end of the trial.
COOPER: It's been fascinating to watch. Christopher Santora, appreciate you being on. Jeffrey Toobin, as well, thanks.
We invited Naomi Campbell to come on the program to tell her side of the story. That invitation was declined.
Up next, you think your last flight was a freak show? We're going to tell you about one that ended with a flight attendant under arrest after a cursing fest, a shouting match, a beer theft, and the escape slide getaway. Can't make this up. And he now has a Facebook page filled with friends and fans.
See what we've learned about the flight attendant, what sparked his apparent meltdown, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Let's get a quick check on some other stories we're following. Joe Johns has the "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says the killings of ten international medical aid workers in Afghanistan show the lengths to which the Taliban will go to advance a twisted ideology. You see some of the victims in these photos. American officials say the Taliban falsely called the victims spies and proselytizers. A shakeup at the Pentagon. Secretary Robert Gates proposing several cuts to save money, including the elimination of the U.S. Joint Forces Command, which has an annual budget of $240 million and is staffed by 2,800 people.
Honda is recalling 383,000 cars for problems with the ignition mechanism that could allow them to roll away. The recall affects 2003 Accord and Civic sedans as well as Element vehicles from 2004 and 2003.
And at New York's Kennedy airport, a JetBlue flight attendant allegedly went berserk in a big way. It happened today shortly after the flight landed. Prosecutors say Steven Slater became enraged when a passenger stood up to get his bag as the plane was taxiing to the gate. You might say there was a disagreement.
Slater then allegedly used the intercom to curse out the passenger or passengers, grabbed some beer from the beverage cart, pulled an escape slide, and jumped off the jet. OK.
Slater was arrested at his home, charged with criminal mischief and reckless endangerment, I guess, you know, flight attendants have a hard time at that job these days.
COOPER: Was someone not rolling on this on their cell-phone camera? I mean, this would be a video I would like to see.
JOHNS: Security cameras.
COOPER: A flight attendant who's had enough, you know?
Apparently, there's now a Facebook page already out in support of this guy.
JOHNS: It's amazing. I just checked it out. And he's talking about, "Well, if we get donations, I'll be sure to let you know or whatever."
COOPER: I would like to know the back story.
JOHNS: Everybody's got a deal, right?
COOPER: Joe, thanks very much.
For tonight's "Shot," Sarah Palin taking on what she calls the lamestream media after a video of her debating a teacher in Poma, Alaska, was posted on YouTube. The encounter happened while she was filming her documentary series on TLC. The teacher greeted Palin with a banner that said, "Worst Governor Ever." Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You swore on your precious Bible that you would uphold the interests of this state, and then when cash was waved in front of your face, you quit.
SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: Oh, you wanted me to be your governor? I'm honored.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, well, I wanted you to honor your responsibilities. That is what I wanted.
PALIN: So...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted you to be a part of the political process instead of becoming a celebrity so that you could (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And if that is the best you could do, then good for you. If that's the best you can...
PALIN: Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'm out there fighting for Americans to be able to have the Constitution protected so that we can have free speech. And also there...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In what way are you fighting for that?
PALIN: Oh, my goodness.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In what way?
PALIN: To elect candidates who understand the Constitution, to protect our military interests so that we can keep on fighting for our Constitution that will protect some of the freedoms that evidently are important to you, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By using your celebrity status, certainly not political status.
PALIN: How am I a celebrity? I'm honored. She thinks I'm a celebrity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're certainly not representing the state of Alaska any longer, even though...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's funny that you think she is. She's representing United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I know. You belong to America now, and that suits me just fine. Yes.
PALIN: What do you do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a teacher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, a lot of people said she was rolling her eyes when the woman said that she was a teacher. On her Facebook page, Palin took a shot at what she calls the lamestream media, saying that they were trying to use this encounter, that saying she was rolling her eyes. She says she wasn't rolling her eyes, that she comes from a long line of teachers. You can be the judge.
A lot more ahead at the top of the hour, starting with controversy over first lady Michelle Obama's trip to Spain. Is this White House tone deaf? Are these kind of trips unusual? The facts ahead. We're "Keeping Them Honest."
