Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Pedophilia Advocate under Arrest; Promises, Promises; Michael Vick Wants a Dog; Haiti Street Orphans Abused
Aired December 20, 2010 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta filling in for Anderson Cooper tonight.
Tonight, he literally wrote a book on how to have sex with children, a how-to book for pedophiles. Now, 360 led the way trying to hold Amazon accountable for selling it. Now the book is gone and the author is in jail.
But "Keeping Them Honest" as disgusting as this book may be, is it protected by the First Amendment? And if the author lives in Colorado how can the state of Florida have him arrested?
We'll ask the sheriff who had him busted and also senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Also tonight: promises, promises. Has keeping them and passing legislation he said he would turned around President Obama's chances for 2012? Even if not everyone likes what he's accomplished? You're going to hear from both sides. You decide for yourself.
And Michael Vick, he wants a dog. Now, he did time for breeding, torturing and fighting them. Now he says he wants to show people he genuinely cares. Is this like giving matches to an arsonist or a legitimate way to rehabilitate someone? You might be surprised of what some advocates for animals have to say about this.
We begin though as we always do, "Keeping Them Honest." Tonight, the author who advocates pedophilia is in jail. Phillip Greaves II arrested at his home today in Pueblo, Colorado.
Now deputies from Polk County, Florida crossed the country to bust him -- the charge is obscenity -- after they say he sold them a copy -- purportedly his last copy -- and autographed one of this book; it's called "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: A Child Lover's Code of Conduct."
I've got to tell you the title alone is chilling. The author telling ABC News he was trying to stir up controversy and sales. But I've got to tell you there's not much doubt he also truly believes what he's selling.
Listen to his defense of pedophiles. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP R. GREAVES II, AUTHOR, "THE PEDOPHILE'S GUIDE": Every time you see them on television they're either murderers, rapist or kidnappers and you know that's just not an accurate presentation of such -- that particular sexuality.
Well, to tell you the truth, I don't think that it's always bad for the child. Ok? But I do think it's always confining for the adult because there are just so many more things that adults can enjoy between each other than they can enjoy with a child without hurting the child.
Kissing, fondling, that sort of thing, I don't think is that serious of a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: Not that serious a problem? Not always bad for the child? Phillips Greaves talking about his book there and here's some passages from it as well. I want to warn you though, they are disturbing.
And here's one quote, "Pedophiles feel great affection for their young partners and do everything possible to avoid causing them any pain." Or this: "They are concerned for the well-being and pleasure of their little friends, always putting the juvenile's pleasure and happiness first." And: "If both partners are disease-free, then it is unnecessary for either to take any preventive measures during sex or to be concerned regarding any bodily fluids or their exchange."
Those are passages from "A Pedophile's Guide," which Mr. Greaves self-published and was selling on Amazon, even though Amazon has a policy against selling pornography or what it calls extremely disturbing materials.
As you might remember, we've been on front with this story from the beginning trying to get some answers from Amazon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin though, tonight as always, "Keeping Them Honest" with a story that may stun you. Amazon.com, the biggest online retailer in the world, is selling a guide for pedophiles. Right now on their Web site they are selling an e-book on -- for Kindle, in essence, profiting from pedophilia.
Tonight, profiting from pedophilia, Amazon.com, after our report last night they pulled the guide for pedophiles that they've been peddling. But as we'll show you today, they were still selling other pro-pedophile books and they're ducking our calls for answers.
Tonight, "Peddling Pedophilia" the nation's largest online retailer, Amazon.com is slowly taking down more disgusting material for sale on its site. Not just books but videos as well.
But why is it taking them so long and how did this stuff get on their site in the first place? We're "Keeping Them Honest."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: And we tried, especially to get someone from Amazon to talk to us. Dozens of unreturned calls and messages later sent our Seattle reporter, Patrick Oppmann, to Amazon headquarters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN ALL PLATFORM JOURNALIST (on camera): I'm looking for Amazon.com?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You what?
OPPMANN: Looking for Amazon.com.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, this is it. Yes.
OPPMANN: I'm in the right place? Here's my name. I'm with CNN. I was trying to reach somebody in your guys' media relations department?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we're not allowed to have media in here.
OPPMANN: I'm in the lobby of the Amazon.com headquarters in Seattle. It's been about an hour. I got here. They wouldn't let me past security. They did send up my business card to the media relations department.
And I haven't heard any word back. I'm going to check again before I leave. But really, I have just been waiting here for someone to come out and talk to us.
Yes, it's been about an hour. Is there a way to check with them again to see if, you know, they'll talk to me or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I left the message with my boss and that's the only thing that I can do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: That was last month, what you're looking at there. Tonight, the book is no longer available. The author is in jail.
But, "Keeping Them Honest," it is not the end of the story, by any stretch. And there are at least two reasons why.
First of all, as revolting as Phillip Greaves' title and subject matter may be to most people, it may not even violate federal law, which defines child pornography as a visual depiction -- visual -- of a minor engaging in obscene behavior.
"The Pedophile's Guide" is only words, no pictures. So, that's one thing. The other is the Florida statute Philip Greaves has been charged with violating, which is all-encompassing and covers this -- quote -- "Any person who knowingly sells, lends, gives away, distributes, transmits, shows, or transmutes or offers to sell, lend, give away, distribute, transmit, show, or transmute lewd and obscene material." The law also covers anyone who prepares such materials for or "who knowingly writes, prints, publishes or utters or causes to be written, printed, published, or uttered any advertisement or notice of any kind giving information, directly or indirectly stating or purporting to state where, how or whom, or by what means any or what purports to be any such material, matter, article or thing of any such character can be purchased, obtained or had."
I don't know how the lawyers do it. It's a mouthful, very specific, very comprehensive. But here's the question, why we read it to you. Could it ultimately be trampling on free, albeit offensive speech?
Well, joining us tonight, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and Grady Judd, sheriff from Polk County, Florida.
Thank you so much.
Sheriff, let me -- let me start with you.
(CROSSTALK)
GRADY JUDD, POLK COUNTY, FLORIDA, SHERIFF: It's my honor to be here.
GUPTA: Thank you, sir.
You were -- you were in charge of what was essentially an undercover operation that led to Greaves' arrest. You're in Florida. How --
(CROSSTALK)
JUDD: Sure.
GUPTA: -- how did your office get involved in this in the first place?
He lives in Colorado, has no real connection to the state of the Florida.
JUDD: Well, we watched Anderson Cooper on CNN and other national broadcasts, and people sitting around, wringing their hands, saying, there's nothing we can do -- free speech, free speech.
This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with obscenity. We had a law in Florida that applied. We only needed jurisdiction.
We consulted our state attorney's office, Brad Copley, and our state attorney, Jerry Hill. They said, if you can get jurisdiction, bring us a case.
My detectives did a fantastic job. And that's what we did. We took them an autographed book that Phillip sent to us. That gave us jurisdiction. A circuit judge gave us a warrant, and the rest is history. He's in jail.
GUPTA: Now, police in Colorado -- just to be clear, Sheriff -- did investigate Greaves last month after the story came out, but found that he wasn't violating Colorado law. So, how does that work? Is it because of the Internet and -- and its impact on the -- on the entire world?
JUDD: Well, the Internet has made everything a local event.
And what our law says is, you can't sit in Colorado and violate Florida law, any more than you can sit in Florida and violate Florida law. When he transmitted, when he sold, when he delivered that book to us in Polk County, Florida, he violated Florida law. And that's why we were able to put him in jail. And the Pueblo police were fantastic in assisting us in this investigation.
COOPER: Jeff -- let me bring in Jeffrey Toobin here.
And I -- I alluded to this, Jeffrey, but what about the First Amendment here? I mean, this is distasteful, Jeff. You have kids. I have three daughters. I mean, it's just terribly distaste -- distasteful stuff. But could Greaves still claim protection under freedom of speech?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you're certainly right that it's repulsive and awful, but I don't see how this prosecution can go forward, because I think this book is clearly protected by the First Amendment.
The Supreme Court dealt with a case very similar to this in 2002, where there was a federal law that said any sort of depictions of child pornography, including cartoons, are unlawful. And the Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional, because the only kind of kiddie porn that can be prohibited is actual depictions of actual sex involving children.
This book, as awful as it is, is only words, as you said. It is mostly two fictional stories about pedophilia. And that, I think, is a statement of opinion. It is a statement of a kind of art. And it is -- it -- it is not constitutional to arrest him for engaging in that kind of speech.
COOPER: Let me -- let me ask about one more thing that's come up, Jeff. I mean, so you heard the story from the sheriff there. Undercover detectives were involved. They solicited the materials from Greaves and then they brought him back to Florida. Could any -- any of this in any way be considered entrapment?
TOOBIN: I don't think so. I mean, I think this is clearly a legitimate law enforcement investigation. And if, for example, Greaves had mailed to the detectives actual photographs of children having sex, I think this prosecution would be more than justified.
But -- so, I don't think there's any problem with what the detectives did.
I think this law is too broad, under the First Amendment. And I think it would bring -- it brings in material, distasteful though it is, that is protected under our Constitution.
GUPTA: Sheriff Judd, I mean, there's a lot of distasteful material out there. I mean, I was just going to the Amazon Web site today. There's books like "Diary of a Pedophile," "Fun with Pedophiles." There's lots of books out there that, you know, people could be concerned about, based on what you're saying.
I mean, what do you do about books like that? How does this all stay consistent, in your own mind?
JUDD: Well, it's consistent with us, because he mailed this book to us. It was a how-to book of how to sexually abuse children. And it was a depiction in writing. Therefore, it's clearly a violation of Florida law.
And, quite frankly, the problem is, as our attorney just said, there's too much hand-wringing across this nation. When we can't stand together as a nation and say you can't write a book and depict real-time stories, real stories of children being sexually abused, then it's time to change the law, because you cannot sexually abuse children and write about it in a book. That's illegal. And that's why he's in jail.
GUPTA: Jeff, it wasn't a fiction book. I mean, he --
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Right.
GUPTA: I mean, he -- there was at least a couple of real-life accounts, Jeff.
TOOBIN: But that -- that's -- still, its words. Its stories, as the sheriff said. And stories are -- are not illegal in this -- in this country.
You know, the -- the reason we have kiddie porn laws is because the very act of taking a photograph of children engaged in sex is a crime, because a crime is taking place. You need a crime to take a picture of it for kids -- children's -- children's pornography. This is just words. We have no way of knowing whether anything in this book is true.
We don't have police investigate whether stories that people write in books are true. As awful as this is, the core of the First Amendment is about protection of speech that, even though many of us, certainly including me, find it repulsive.
GUPTA: Sheriff, you want -- you want to react to that. I mean, again, I think no one is disagreeing just how repugnant the material is.
The question, though, you're saying the law should be changed? Obviously, Jeffrey talking about the fact that it does seem to be protected, to some extent, under freedom of speech.
JUDD: Well, it's absolutely not protected under Florida law. You don't have to have a photograph.
And, you know, our lawyer friend is still calling it kiddie porn. That is offensive to all the children that are victims of child sex in this country. It is real children being really abused, and he's telling a story about it. And it's harmful to minors. And it's clearly a violation of Florida law.
And, quite frankly, that's what we have the appellate courts for. But I can tell you this. If you mail materials to Polk County that are injurious to our children or encouraging them to -- others to commit crimes against our children, sexual crimes, we're going to investigate you and arrest you.
And I believe that I can take this -- this case to any jury in any state in this nation, and clearly convict Phillip, because his conduct is outrageous, and it is illegal according to Florida law. So, stay tuned.
GUPTA: All right.
Sheriff --
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Well, Sanjay, if I could jump in just real quick, certainly, I mean, the sheriff and I disagree about the constitutional issue here, but I certainly agree with him that the issue of child pornography, what I called kiddie porn, is a very serious one. And I'm certainly glad that law enforcement is taking an active stand against it.
GUPTA: All right, Sheriff Grady Judd, Jeffrey Toobin.
In case you're curious -- I was -- 300 copies of this book were sold, certainly not a bestseller.
But let us know what you think about this. Join the live chat now under way at AC360.com.
Up next: they're comparing him to Jimmy Carter. They were comparing him to Jimmy Carter. Now they're comparing him to Austin Powers. So, does President Obama have his mojo back? We've got new numbers and a look at how Beltway talkers are doing a 180 on this subject from two people who disagree on his accomplishments, perhaps his outlook as well.
Later: news about the water you drink and the dangerous chemicals that could be in it. Big question: does dangerous mean deadly? We've got some answers just ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: I'll tell you, as a doctor, I know what vital signs look like and what it looks like when they're slipping.
Well, tonight, the political pathologists who had all but done the autopsy on Barack Obama's presidency, they're doing a 180.
First of all, some news numbers: the President now enjoying a 48 percent approval rating. It's been creeping up for some months now, still lower, though, than President Clinton and both President Bushes at this time in their presidencies, but higher than Ronald Reagan, who was also president over a weak economy at the time.
But, even as Mr. Obama's job approval numbers were bottoming out, then slowly climbing, a prognosis in Washington seemed grim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Barack Obama is a one-term president.
DAVID GREGORY, MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS": Vice President Cheney said that he considers President Obama a one-term president.
Do you agree with that?
CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST, "THE CHRIS MATTHEWS SHOW": It's purgatory for the President.
CHRIS WALLACE, HOST, "FOX NEWS SUNDAY": You keep saying that -- that Barack Obama is a one-term president.
MATTHEWS: Our big question this week: with Barack Obama's poll numbers still bouncing around below 50, is he vulnerable to a challenge in 2012 from within the Democratic Party?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Jimmy Carter was a one-term president. How worried are you right now -- if you are worried -- that Barack Obama will be a one-term president?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: That's Wolf Blitzer there reporting in October.
A month later, an anchor on another network wondered if the President had lost his mojo, along with the midterm elections?
A pair of Democratic pollsters writing, quote, "To be a great president, Obama should not seek re-election in 2012."
Well, then came the tax deal. Then came "don't ask, don't tell," in addition to earlier legislative victories as well. The pundits, it seems, started noticing, and then the patient came back to life, headlines like "The Comeback Kid," "President Obama's Incredible Comeback," "Has Barack Obama Found His Mojo?" (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: The hot story in Washington right now that everyone's writing is that Barack Obama, after the shellacking he took, has gotten his mojo back.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST, "THIS WEEK WITH CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR": So many people have said this was a great victory for President Obama.
BOB SCHIEFFER, HOST, "FACE THE NATION": Charles Krauthammer called President Obama this week the new comeback kid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This big question: Is President Obama on the comeback trail?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're calling President Obama the comeback did. How big of a victory was this for him yesterday?
JOHN DICKERSON, POLITICAL ANALYST, CBS NEWS: It's pretty fast. You know, the election was supposed to be a repudiation of the president. Now, just five weeks later, he's coming back already.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: So, one day, I guess you're dog food. The next day, you're top dog?
Well, if you're wondering how Washington can be so fickle, well, so are we. We can -- we also couldn't help but wonder if Mr. Obama is finally getting some credit, in some quarters, at least, for all the heavy lifting he's been doing since day one.
You can agree or disagree with the policies. The fact is, though, from getting Detroit in and out of bankruptcy to passing "don't ask, don't tell" he's now put together a pretty long record of keeping campaign promises.
Joining us now to talk about that: Democratic strategist, Paul Begala; and Erick Erickson, editor in chief of RedState.com.
Paul, I will start with you.
I mean, you know something about this term comeback kid?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: But I --
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: President Clinton, graciously, in his memoir gave me credit for writing it. So I guess I should get a royalty or something.
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: Which was still while he was campaigning, for sure.
But you would probably be surprised. Charles Krauthammer, the conservative columnist, is calling President Obama -- using that same term, the comeback kid, for what he's accomplished, especially during this lame-duck session of Congress.
Well, I mean, you worked closely with -- with Bill Clinton. What -- what do you think about this comparison?
BEGALA: I -- I think that the vital signs, Dr. Gupta, are not political polls.
They are -- I'm not sure what a minor medical number might be, but that's what this is. Ok? The vital signs here are jobs. Can he create more jobs? We don't have enough jobs being created in this presidency. I think he's doing all he can. I agree with his economic theory, but the reality is, we need more jobs in this country.
And then the other one, of course, is income, which usually goes along with jobs. If he can move the needle -- Bill Clinton created 22 million jobs, or he set the economic policy that did, almost 23 million jobs. And incomes rose under his presidency up and down. The rich got better and the poor got better.
Those are the two things he needs to do. He needs to move the needle on jobs and raise incomes. And then all of this punditry is just contributing to global warming, as far as I'm concerned.
GUPTA: Erick, you -- you -- look, I mean, you just heard the comments made by lots of people, the shellacking that President Obama took, all that.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICK ERICKSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right.
GUPTA: But you know, he -- he -- there's no argument getting "don't ask, don't tell" repealed was a huge victory for the President. Roughly 70 percent of the country supported him on that.
What do you -- I mean, what do you think about these last couple of months? Are you surprised about what's happened since the midterm elections?
ERICKSON: No, not at all. This may be one of those nights Paul and I virtually agree on everything.
This news story is -- is -- it's exactly what's wrong with Washington and the way politics is covered. Events change things. I could have told you the day after the election that, within a month or two, we would start hearing positive stories about the President's agenda.
Here's another news flash is, sometime in 2012, we're going to hear ominous stories about infighting within the Obama administration and the campaign -- which may or may not turn around by November 2012.
This just -- this is a political cycle, and it's ridiculous that reporters and pundits in Washington get wrapped up in the day-to-day intrigue, as opposed to looking at the big picture and the long term. The man has still got two more years.
GUPTA: It's amazing how the pendulum just keeps swinging, Erick.
ERICKSON: Pretty much.
GUPTA: A big surprise there.
But -- but, Paul, how much -- the -- the "don't ask, don't tell," I mean, how much goodwill does this really get President Obama with his liberal base? I mean, because this comes right on the heels of the tax deal, which, seemingly, they were not very happy about.
BEGALA: Well, that's right. And it's an enormous accomplishment, I know, from sources in the White House.
The President personally lobbied on this in the most effective way. He didn't go out and make a big public statement about it. He called wavering senators, Republicans, and asked for their help. And then, at the same time -- that was sort of the nice side -- he sent political operatives into Maine, where there are two Republican senators who wound up supporting it, and tried to gin up public support for that.
So, great kudos to him on that.
I have to say, not only do I not like the tax deal. Passing it was not a very impressive accomplishment. I don't mean to diminish this president or this bill, but come on.
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: Cutting taxes and spending money.
BEGALA: Cutting taxes and raising spending in Washington, I mean, George W. Bush even could pass that.
And I'm not exactly confusing him with a great president. So, I don't think that.
But, now, the next thing he needs to do, just if I could give him free advice, because I know he watches every night, is take on the people who are trying to kill the 9/11 first-responders health care act.
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: Yes.
BEGALA: It has bipartisan support in the Congress, but there's -- there's enough Republicans in the Senate who are trying to kill it. That's where he needs a public campaign -- -- that's where he needs to stand up and -- and speak with -- with the -- the moral indignation --
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: Right.
BEGALA: -- that the country feels when they see first-responders being denied the health care they deserve.
GUPTA: Right. Right.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: Well, you know, there's a bigger issue as well, Sanjay.
GUPTA: Go ahead, Erick.
ERICKSON: And -- and that is, you know, there's a lot of talk among these pundits about the President getting a -- an attack from the Democratic base in 2012. That's not going to happen.
GUPTA: Right.
ERICKSON: But I will say, if Guantanamo Bay is still open in 2012, if we still have a lot of troops in Afghanistan in 2012, we are going to have this conversation again with a lot of Democratic activists, who -- who aren't going to care about the tax deal. That's going to be forgotten by then.
It's going to go back to the same issues back to 2008. It's not going to kill him, but it certainly is going to be a distraction again in 2012, like it was in 2009 and early 2010.
GUPTA: You actually think -- you mentioned this, but you actually think Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid deserves most of the credit for what's been accomplished so far, especially during this -- this particular --
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: In the past week, Harry Reid's maneuvering on the Senate floor to get things -- things done that Republicans were absolutely convinced could not get done really shows that he really is a master of the Senate rules and gets things done.
Yet, the President always gets the credit, because he's the President and there are 100 senators. But you cannot dispute how effective Harry Reid has been this past year, much to the chagrin, frankly, of a lot of people on the right and the left.
GUPTA: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I agree with Erick on that. In fact, just -- yes, that is absolutely true. The guy has been -- (CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: Too much agreement going on today.
ERICKSON: It's Christmas.
BEGALA: He's been a magician. They need to build a statue to him.
I mean, it's really -- really, what he's been able to get done after just a very tough re-election, you know, the guy should be taking a vacation, instead of doing all this work. But God bless him.
GUPTA: Guys, thanks so much. Happy holidays.
ERICKSON: Merry Christmas.
GUPTA: Thanks for joining us.
BEGALA: Thanks. You too, you have a good holiday.
GUPTA: Erick Erickson, Paul Begala.
Just ahead tonight: the dangers that could be in your tap, on tap for you in the water you drink in your own home. We will tell you about new findings and what you can do to stay safe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: Randi Kaye joins us with a "360 Bulletin" -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sanjay, late news out of Washington.
The Transportation Department says that Toyota has agreed to pay an additional $32.4 million
2330
2330
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: Randi Kaye joins us with a 360 bulletin -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sanjay, late news out of Washington.
The Transportation Department says that Toyota has agreed to pay an additional $32.4 million in civil penalties having to do with two separate investigations into how it handled auto recalls involving accelerator pedals and loss of steering control.
Counter-terror police in Britain arrested a dozen men today in a large-scale operation involving raids in four cities. The suspects' ages reportedly range from 17 to 28. Officials haven't identified a possible target, but said the arrests were made to ensure public safety.
Severe winter weather, including heavy snow, has stranded hundreds of thousands of travelers across Europe. Thousands of flights have been canceled across the continent. London's Heathrow Airport reopened today, but officials said passengers should expect delays and cancellations beyond Christmas.
A new study by a watchdog group has found the cancer-causing chemical Chromium 6 in tap water samples across the country. Samples from 31 U.S. cities tested positive. Chromium 6 is the same chemical that Erin Brockovich fought to expose in the town of Hinkley, California more than a decade ago.
And, Sanjay, I know that you have actually been following this story quite a bit. So, what happens when we do ingest this chromium 6?
GUPTA: Yes. You know, it's interesting.
And let me just give you a little bit of background quickly. There's about 80,000 chemicals, Randi, that we're surrounded with at any given time. Only 200 of them have been tested, and only five have been banned.
This is one of those five that have been banned, chromium 6. Yet, it's still showing up in many places, as you just mentioned.
The concern, one of the concerns, is it's listed as a potential carcinogen. And the concern specifically is about stomach cancer, which, you know, came up in that movie about Erin Brockovich as well. So it's a potential cancer-causing agent that was banned yet, still, as you just said, it shows up in people's drinking water.
KAYE: Well, hearing that -- I'm no expert -- but it seems pretty obvious to me that this should not be in our drinking water. So what is the EPA doing about this, if anything?
GUPTA: Well, you know, I mean, the EPA has a standard for total chromium in the water, and the issue is that this environmental working group, their standard is more conservative. They say it's based on newer science.
So we looked into this today. The EPA is saying they're reviewing that new science as part of a risk assessment that it's conducting that will complete that assessment in 2011. So the standard may change at some point.
But keep in mind, again, some of these things are naturally- occurring substances and then break down into some of these potentially cancer-causing agents, so it can be tricky to measure and also to regulate, as well, Randi.
KAYE: All right. GUPTA: Randi, stick around though. We've got tonight's "Shot." It's a blast from TVs primetime past, but it has a Christmas tie-in. So we thought it was appropriate.
Remember that program "Beverly Hills 90210?" It used to be one of the hottest TV shows back in the day; its soap opera story lines and cast of good-looking young actors.
KAYE: Can't forget it.
GUPTA: Were you in it at one point?
KAYE: No, I wasn't in it. No.
GUPTA: A lot of good-looking people on that show, for sure.
KAYE: But I watched it.
GUPTA: Now, Cinefamily has posted a video called "200 Christmases in Two Minutes." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christmas, Christmas, Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christmas, Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christmas, Christmas, Christmas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: It goes on and on, 200 in two minutes.
KAYE: You're not going to make me watch all of them, are you?
GUPTA: No. I think we're full.
KAYE: It brings back memories though.
GUPTA: But it's in the spirit a little bit, though. Right? You and I are both working this holiday week.
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: Sure, it's very festive. I remember all those characters.
GUPTA: Do you?
KAYE: I watched that show all the time. I admit it. Yes. Big fan, Luke Perry.
GUPTA: It was a good show, I guess. I didn't get to watch it very much, but I heard it was a good show.
KAYE: It was.
GUPTA: Randi, thanks --
KAYE: I'm sure you can find reruns, Sanjay.
GUPTA: I can. On the Internet you can find just about anything.
Randi thanks so much.
Up next, we have more fallout over Philadelphia Eagle Michael Vick's desire to own another dog some day. Vick, of course, you'll remember, was convicted of running a dog-fighting ring in Virginia back in 2007.
But today he's finding some support in some pretty surprising circles. Support some call outrageous. We've got a "360 Follow." It's just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: We've got a "360 Follow" now on a story we told you about last week. Michael Vick would someday like to own a dog again, and he's getting support from one group that may surprise a few people.
Vick, you'll remember, is a star quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles, but in 2007 he was temporarily suspended from the NFL after pleading guilty to running a dog-fighting operation in Virginia. He served more than a year and a half in federal prison and was released in May of 2009.
As part of his conviction, Vick is not allowed to own an animal until his probation ends in 2012. Some, including the animal rights group, PETA, think Vick should never be allowed to own another pet. But this is what he said last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL VICK, CONVICTED OF DOG-FIGHTING: I would love to have another dog in the future. You know, I think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process. I think just to have a pet in my household and to show people that I genuinely care.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GUPTA: Now, when he got out of prison, Vick began working with the Humane Society of the United States, and he now speaks to children about the cruelty of dog fighting.
The president of the Humane Society, Wayne Pacelle, says while now is not the time for Vick to own a dog, he says it shouldn't be ruled out in the future. And when we first covered this story last week, a lot of viewers wrote in to say they, too, believe Vick should be allowed to have a dog at some point.
Wayne Pacelle joins us now. Thanks so much, sir.
WAYNE PACELLE, HUMAN SOCIETY: Thank you, Sanjay.
GUPTA: You've been very involved with this from the beginning. You urged state and local -- state and federal authorities to prosecute Michael Vick. You talked specifically about this at the time that he was found to be dog fighting. You urged the Atlanta Falcons to drop him and the NFL to suspend him. Now, why do you support him now?
PACELLE: Well, like you said, Sanjay, I mean, what he did was terrible. He needed to face the consequences of this awful crime. Bad News Kennels, he and a number of other individuals involved in this illegal and vicious and barbaric dog-fighting ring.
But Michael Vick served his time, and at the end of that time, nearly two years with his time at Leavenworth and then home confinement, he said he wanted to help us with the larger dog-fighting problem.
I was skeptical, but I thought about it and I said, what's the biggest problem we face? It's street fighting. Young kids, like Michael Vick -- when he started he was 7 or 8 years old dog-fighting in Newport News -- who are getting pit bulls for the wrong reasons and squaring them off in alleys and abandoned buildings and fighting them.
So we said to Vick, "We'll work with you if you put boots on the ground and speak to thousands of kids in communities across the country to warn them away from this horrible problem of dog-fighting."
He's met every -- every asked and every request that we've made. He's been doing two events a month, and he's been doing a very, very good job.
GUPTA: You run the organization. Has this been sort of a unanimous feeling within your organization? I imagine this has been somewhat controversial?
PACELLE: Absolutely. And I understand all of the people who are upset about Michael Vick and who really can't get the images out of their mind. I understand that.
But endlessly flogging Michael Vick is not going to save one more dog. Even during the conviction proceedings, I felt it was important to pivot away from the Vick case to a degree. We wanted to make sure that he was successfully prosecuted, but we also wanted to look at the larger issue.
Michael Vick was just one of thousands of people involved in dog fighting, and there are tens of thousands today. The key is for us to reach these kids before they get into the activity and to, of course, strengthen the laws and have good law enforcement. But, you know, you've got to have a mix of prevention and prosecution. And that's what we're doing.
And Vick's role in speaking to kids in Newark and Philadelphia and Washington and Baltimore -- we just spoke to 2,000 kids in New Haven, you know, these kids are listening. He is a celebrity. He has a cautionary tale. And it's an important message that they must hear, and that's the message that I've really been promoting with Michael Vick.
GUPTA: I got to ask you about this ad in "The New York Times" today. I know -- I know this is probably something you're not thrilled by at all. And to be fair, it's -- it was organized by this organization called Humane Watch, a group tied to Rick Berman, a controversial figure, and Mr. Pacelle, I've been following it for some time. He's fought unions. He's fought Mother's against Drunk Driving. He's fought PETA. He says maybe trans-fats aren't that bad and tanning beds aren't that bad. He's a controversial figure, as well.
But the ad said the Humane Society accepted $50,000 in donations from the Philadelphia Eagles, and it implies, at least in this ad, that the donation is the reason you now support Michael Vick. How do you -- how do you respond to that?
PACELLE: Well, Sanjay, you've got Rick Berman just right. I mean, he takes up any cause that is unpopular. And he goes after Mothers against Drunk Driving, the Humane Society. Even after the Centers for Disease Control.
Let's just look at the timeline here. The Humane Society and me, we started working with Vick very soon after his home-confinement period ended. The Eagles then acquired him after I started working with him, after we did an entire "60 Minutes" program on our outreach to young kids.
So the fact the Philadelphia Eagles had provided some modest support for an anti-dog-fighting program in Philadelphia does nothing to compromise a position that was already established before Vick was acquired by the Eagles.
GUPTA: It will be interesting to see and how long this takes. I know you're not a psychologist, but the idea of when he gets a dog is something we may want to talk to you about again.
Mr. Pacelle, thanks a lot. Happy holidays to you.
PACELLE: Same to you, Sanjay.
GUPTA: Still ahead, a missionary in Haiti who was hailed as a hero until his double life was exposed by the young orphans he had abused for years. That's next on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: Tonight a man sits on a Rhode Island jail awaiting sentencing for heinous crimes he got away with for years. They happened in Haiti and his victims were among the country's most vulnerable, orphans living on the streets. The man sitting in jail tonight targeted these children while living a double life in plain sight.
I need to warn you, the abuse you're about to hear described is graphic and it's disturbing. Here's Vladimir Duthiers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VLADIMIR DUTHIERS, AC 360 PRODUCTION ASSISTANT: When Doug Perlitz arrived in Cap-Haitien in the 1990s to work with homeless street kids he seemed like a savior. Perlitz built a school where boys could be safe. It became known as the village, a place where boys who had nothing could come to learn, eat, sleep and play.
Francilien Jean-Charles came to the village when he was 12 years old.
FRANCILIEN JEAN-CHARLES, FORMER STUDENT (via telephone): When I met Mr. Douglas he appeared like Jesus Christ himself come to rescue us.
DUTHIERS: Brian Russell (ph) was an early donor to Perlitz's project.
BRIAN RUSSELL, DONOR TO PERLITZ PROJECT: He opened the gates up to the village and it was like this paradise. There was no garbage in the village. There were buildings that were not in complete disrepair. And it seemed like an oasis in the middle of a desert.
DUTHIERS: Perlitz raised a lot of money and was beloved by the local community. What no one knew, however, was that behind the smiles and the good deeds Doug Perlitz was actually a monster.
According to more than a dozen boys, Perlitz routinely molested them for years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Douglas had an outward appearance to make it hard to believe he was doing these things because whenever people saw him he would always be praying and rescuing children.
(INAUDIBLE) was just 11 when he said Perlitz began to abuse him. Fredlin Legrand was 14.
FREDLIN LEGRAND, FORMER STUDENT (through translator): He gave me a pill that made me fall asleep and when I woke up I found my pants covered in sperm. I started to cry because I never thought something like this would ever happen to me.
One night he would took Francilien. One night he would take me. One night it could be anyone else.
He always had a watch and he used the watch light to look for little kids to have sex with him.
LUTHIERS: The boys say they didn't know what to do. They didn't want to return to the streets so they stayed silent for years.
But in 2007, unable to stand it any longer, a few boys approached teachers and adults in town and told them what Perlitz did, but either no one believed them or they didn't want to cross him.
JEAN-CHARLES: The school became a business boon for the town and to live well you needed to go through Mr. Douglas.
DUTHIERS: Some boys in desperation began to scrawl messages on the school walls hoping to get someone's attention.
All along these walls there's graffiti markings that have been painted over. The boys say that the only way that they were ever able to get anybody to understand what was going on behind the walls was to write the graffiti about what Doug Perlitz was doing to them.
And actually here you see two words that are left here; a plea for help -- welcome, national police of Haiti.
The police, however, never came. Finally, a local radio reporter named Cyrus Sibert (ph) saw the graffiti and told the kids he'd help.
CYRUS SIBERT, REPORTER (through translator): I told the boys, "I will go to the end with you. Are you ready?" And they said, "No problem."
DUTHIERS: Sibert interviewed one of the kids on his radio show but at first, Haitian authorities and American donors refused to believe them.
RUSSELL: There was no way that this man could have committed these things people were accusing him of. It seemed utterly out of the realm of possibility. There was too much goodness. The heart was too big.
DUTHIERS: It wasn't until the spring of 2008 that an American volunteer discovered something was terribly wrong. Brian Russell got a call from the volunteer at the school.
RUSSELL: She related the story to me where one of our older boys had raped one of our younger boys. The volunteer went to the Haitian headmaster of the school and said we have to do something more about this. We can't have children raping each other. And his response was, "Well, that's really hard because Douglas has been doing this for the last ten years."
DUTHIERS: Confronted by his donors, Perlitz fled Haiti and returned to the U.S. where a year later the U.S. Immigration and Customs' enforcement agents arrested him and charged him with allegedly abusing 18 underage boys. On his computer they found links to pornographic Web sites which according to court documents said Perlitz, quote, "showed one or more minors, homosexual pornography or displayed homosexual pornography on his laptop computer to entice and persuade the minors to comply with the sex act."
Perlitz initially refused to cooperate with the police but this past August, he struck a plea deal. Admitting only that he had sex with eight minors and confessing that he traveled from the U.S. to Haiti to have sex which is just one of the 24 counts he originally faced. In a hand-written confession he wrote, "One of the dominant purposes of that trip was to engage in illicit sexual conduct with one of the minor boys."
Perlitz faces up to 20 years in prison and will be sentenced on Tuesday. Those who once supported Perlitz are still trying to understand how all this could have happened.
RUSSELL: You feel like you want to go hug those kids and you want to save those kids and you can't.
DUTHIERS: Many of the kids are now young adults and view Perlitz's limited confession some measure of justice.
SIBERT: For us this is a victory; a victory because in the beginning Doug denied it. He said I was a liar, that the boys were liars. I felt proud because everybody used to say that I was lying but I knew I was telling the truth.
DUTHIERS: For these young men the truth has come with a heavy price. The school is closed. The staff laid-off. And they're back on the streets, the same streets where Doug Perlitz found them so many years ago.
Vladimir Duthiers, CNN, Cap-Haitien, Haiti.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: Coming up next which a special event in the sky tonight will be starting in just the next few hours. Why is it so unique? We'll tell you about it ahead.
And while lots of people are getting into the holiday spirit, is a Christmas party really a good enough reason to miss work? Apparently, this senator thought so and that's why he's on tonight's RidicuList.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: Still ahead, we add another name to the RidicuList. Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia gets the honor tonight for skipping the historic vote on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." His reason? You have to hear this one to believe it.
First up, though, Randi Kaye joins us with a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Randi.
KAYE: Sanjay, rare restraint from North Korea today. The totalitarian regime did not retaliate following a South Korean live fire drill it had warned could lead to war. In another encouraging move, there are indications the North is also considering multinational talks with South Korea and the U.S.
An American murdered in Israel and now authorities are investigating whether the attack was, quote, "nationalistic." Christine Logan's body was found Sunday after her co-worker stumbled, bound and bleeding, into a picnic area. Kaye Wilson told authorities the two were hiking when two men tied them to a tree and stabbed them repeatedly. Both men, she believes, were Arab.
Good news from the Gulf of Mexico tonight. General Motors is recycling about 100 miles of plastic booms used to contain this summer's devastating oil spill. The automaker will use roughly 100,000 pounds of the plastic in its Chevy Volt.
And it will be a late night for stargazers. A lunar eclipse is set to begin at 1:33 this morning, changing the full moon from a dramatic orange to red, and then back again. And coincidentally, tonight Sanjay, also marks the winter solstice.
I mean, this is like the Super Bowl for stargazers. This is a big deal.
GUPTA: Let's stay up and watch it.
KAYE: I plan on it.
GUPTA: Doesn't happen very often.
KAYE: Just a couple of hours left or so.
GUPTA: Randi, stick around.
We've got -- we've got a new name to add to our RidicuList. The honor tonight goes to Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, a Democrat who was elected last month to fill up the remaining two years of the term of Senator Robert Byrd, who died earlier this year.
And even though Senator Manchin is new to Capitol Hill, we figured he'd still know to show up for work. The Senate was in session on Saturday, trying to finish up some important unfinished business before the current Congress wraps up at the end of the year and the new Congress begins in January.
Now, among the important votes taken was the repeal of the Pentagon's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, which bars gay men and women from serving openly. The repeal passed by a wide margin.
Senators also voted down the DREAM Act, the immigration bill that didn't have enough support.
Now, Senator Manchin says he didn't support either measure, but his votes weren't counted because -- wait for it -- he wasn't in the Senate chamber to cast them. Turns out he was at a family Christmas party, or as his office called it a holiday gathering.
Manchin says he and his wife had planned the get-together with their children and grandchildren for more than a year, since they're not going to be together on Christmas day. It was a family obligation he could not break.
Now, Manchin's been taking heat for missing the votes, but he defended himself today, saying his views on both matters are well known and that he made a commitment to his family.
He also said emphatically that the gathering was not a Christmas party.
All right, Senator, we're not going to quibble over semantics. But really, Senator, aren't you just kind of missing the bigger point here?
One of Manchin's colleagues in the Senate who did show up to vote was Oregon Senator Ron Wyden. He's been diagnosed with prostate cancer. He's going to have surgery this week, but he was still able to make it to Saturday's session.
So for being a no-show, Senator Joe Manchin earns himself a spot on our RidicuList. His opponents will likely remind West Virginians of his missed vote if he runs for re-election in two years.
That does it for this edition of 360. Thanks for watching.
"LARRY KING" starts right now.
