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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Captured in Libya
Aired April 15, 2011 - ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: March 15: Opposition forces in Libya have retreated under heavy fire from several cities they had controlled.
Government forces are bearing down on Ajdabiya, the opposition's last defensive line before Benghazi, their de facto capital in the east.
Under intense shelling, residents of Ajdabiya are fleeing.
Four New York Times journalists covering the battle decide it's too dangerous to stay.
Lynsey Addario, Stephen Farrell, Tyler Hicks, Anthony Shadid and their driver Mohammed Shaglouf head out of the city but are stopped at a checkpoint.
It will be the last time anyone will hear from them for days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Let's just start at the beginning. You guys were driving out of Ajdabiya because you knew Gadhafi forces were moving in, right?
TYLER HICKS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes. We had been treating this in the same way that we had with other cities that had had fighting in them like Brega, Ras Lanuf. And we've -- we've seen these towns fall between the two sides over and over.
So as Gadhafi forces were -- were bombing from the west of the city inwards, we were kind of pulling back slowly as that advance was coming.
COOPER: And you're all in one vehicle, you have a driver, a guy named Mohammed and you're driving what -- to the -- to the east gate of the city?
ANTHONY SHADID, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Correct. And that was kind of the most I think the haunting -- you know one of the things that played over my head was that that creeping realization of what we were actually up against. And Lynsey was the first to realize it was a government checkpoint. And it must have been seconds but it felt like minutes as we got closer and closer, we saw the green military uniforms, the military vehicles and then almost I mean, almost instantly you realized that you were -- you were actually at a government checkpoint and that we had -- we had pretty much no options.
COOPER: And that's got to be the worst feeling I mean, to suddenly see the green vehicles and realize OK, wait a minute there's a level of organization here, these guys aren't the opposition forces, this is Gadhafi's people.
LYNSEY ADDARIO, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": And you can't turn around and go back, because they'll open fire I mean, you would assume they would open fire. You look more suspicious if you try and run away. So we just sort of -- we've made a decision to go forward. And at some point, you know, there's -- it's so chaotic, you don't know what the best option is.
I mean, Tyler was saying don't stop, don't stop, because we kind of just wanted to coast through and hope that they didn't recognize we are foreigners. But at the same time, they -- they knew that we were I mean, they saw Tyler in the front seat.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: And the risk is if you don't stop, they'll just open fire.
ADDARIO: Right. I mean, you -- it's kind of a no win situation. So -- and then, our driver when he stopped the car and he jumped out and said, we're "journalist." And then it was --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: And all hell broke loose.
ADDARIO: Yes.
COOPER: You -- you were yanked out of the vehicle first? Is that right Tyler?
HICKS: Correct, yes I was grabbed by my -- by my jacket and my camera straps and literally you know, pulled out violently out of the car. And at the moment that I was not even completely out of the car, we were attacked with heavy gunfire, very accurate gunfire from opposition fighters who we had just been with, just moments earlier.
COOPER: So the opposition guys are firing at you?
STEPHEN FARRELL, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": They were firing past us towards the check point. We were just caught in the middle. So as we were being pulled out of the car I think I've gone two steps, three steps into the road. Tyler was likely in front of me, there was a soldier grabbing my bags, trying to pull me out. So I'm screaming at him "journalist, journalist, you know, foreigner, Americans, British" whatever and he's -- he's trying to grab my bags. And I'm sort of basically saying to him, really, in the middle of a gun battle? I mean, can we do this over that sand dune over there and trying -- and you're -- you're facing the risk of am I going to get shot by these guys who I can't see or am I going to get shot by the guy pointing the Kalashnikov straight to my face.
COOPER: Quickly you find yourselves laying on your stomachs bound and you hear one of the soldiers -- you speak Arabic, right? You hear one of the soldiers say shoot them?
SHADID: That's correct. We were -- you know, we were put on our knees first and there was a lot of you know kind of slapping, there was you know, emptying our pockets. And I remember one of the soldiers was yelling at me, you're the translator, you're the spy.
And then soon after that, they forced us on our stomachs and I think we all had that that very sinking feeling that this was it. And I remember on my stomach I'm looking up and I remember him being a tall soldier and saying shoot them. And it felt like to me again, I felt like a lot of time, you know a lapse but I think it was just probably a matter of seconds. And another soldier said to them, you can't, they're Americans.
COOPER: I want to read something that -- that you wrote about that moment. You said, "At that moment, though, none of us thought we were going to live. Steve tried to keep eye contact until they pulled the trigger. The rest of us felt the powerlessness of resignation. You feel empty when you know that it's almost over." What do -- explain that what do you mean?
SHADID: You know, I -- I don't know how -- how my colleagues felt, but I remember not -- it wasn't panic necessarily. It wasn't that kind of like desperation or flailing about that you know, you're about to be killed. It was almost that, you know, it's hard to describe other than calling it resignation or emptiness that the moment is drawing near and you're kind of waiting for it.
ADDARIO: Well, there's nothing you can do. You can't -- you're literally captive and you know that any move you make they can shoot you. So it's almost easier to just not move and say, OK, I might die right now and you resign to the fact that this could be the end.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: It sounds stupid, but I mean, you see that moment in movies of people lined up, put on the ground and then, shot and you always kind of think, well, why don't they run or do something? But do you --
(CROSSTALK)
ADDARIO: There is no point. I mean, what's the point? It will just be more violent. I mean you -- you know, I think your -- your better chance is to just hope that they take pity on you for being so terrified. I mean I think we all just assumed we were about to die. And I mean for me I just said OK, if this is the worst thing that's going to happen to us, I probably won't feel it. I mean it will probably be quick.
HICKS: I agree that that you see these things in movies. Or you -- you know, for me, I played them through my head so many times --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You've been in a lot of tight situations. All of you have --
(CROSSTALK)
HICKS: Yes -- yes, and I -- I kind of -- I always thought I had myself mentally prepared, like if it gets to this point, I would do this. I would run, I would you know, just -- just try to get away. I would -- I would, you know, there are so many things that you kind of have in the back of your mind, but really when that happens, all of that just got thrown out the window.
COOPER: You really thought you were going to die?
HICKS: Yes, yes. When they demanded we lay on our stomachs, we all -- were begging, no, no we don't want to go we -- we're sorry, we're begging not to go on our stomachs. We all felt that once we were on our stomachs, they're just going to start shooting. And we're -- as soon as I went on my stomach, I was just waiting to hear gunfire. And it was really a sinking and empty feeling.
COOPER: Stephen, is that why you wanted to maintain eye contact?
FARRELL: Yes, it's never over until it's over. I mean unfortunately I've been in this situation before more than --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You were taken hostage in Afghanistan.
FARRELL: -- in Afghanistan and Iraq in 2004. And the --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Are you lucky or incredibly unlucky?
FARRELL: Both. Both -- the -- I mean, I -- there was no real question of making a run for it at that point because you're surrounded by guys with guns. And if you present your back to these guys, they're just going to shoot you and enjoy doing it. You can only work them if you're looking at them, if you're looking in their eye --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Because if you're showing your back, what you're no longer a person, you're just -- you're easier to kill? FARRELL: I just -- you can't be talking with them, you can't be negotiating with them, you can't be pleading with them. If you're -- if you're backs turned to them, they're not going to have any compunction about shooting you; they're going to enjoy it.
So we we're just, OK Anthony was working, Anthony was throwing the Arabic and I was throwing the Arabic I had at them. You listen. And you just try -- you're just pushing -- you just push every button you can and as quickly as you can in the seconds you may or may not have.
Journalist -- that wasn't working; Americans -- that did seem to hit a cord. Anthony is saying other things, these guys, Lynsey, I distinctly remember saying I just don't want to be raped. I just don't want to be raped.
(CROSSTALK)
ADDARIO: I'm begging, I just kept saying please don't, please don't, because we were all waiting to be shot and so I just said, please.
FARRELL: And they were forcing us on a -- they were saying, get down. And we were all -- we all went halfway. Like it's crazy, you're like compromising with -- with -- with nothing, to -- no cards to play. But you're trying to play them. Get down, right, I'll go on my knees I'm just not going all the way down face down, because then you've -- you've kind of lost everything.
COOPER: And you think it's the fact that they viewed you as Americans, that's what made the difference?
SHADID: I think the idea of executing three Americans and a British journalist was -- would have had implications and it was -- there was -- there was going to be you know, repercussions of you know of basically executing us there at a checkpoint, that we were somehow, I'm afraid to say this without reading value into it, but we were somehow worth something.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: March 15: Opposition forces in Libya have retreated under heavy fire from several cities they had controlled.
Government forces are bearing down on Ajdabiya, the opposition's last defensive line before Benghazi, their de facto capital in the east.
Under intense shelling, residents of Ajdabiya are fleeing.
Four New York Times journalists covering the battle decide it's too dangerous to stay. Lynsey Addario, Stephen Farrell, Tyler Hicks, Anthony Shadid and their driver, Mohammed Shaglouf head out of the city but are stopped at a checkpoint.
It will be the last time anyone will hear from them for days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's just start at the beginning. You guys were driving out of Ajdabiya because you knew Gadhafi forces were moving in, right?
HICKS: Yes. We had been treating this in the same way that we had with other cities that had fighting in them, like Brega, Ras Lanuf. And we've -- we've seen these towns fall between the two sides over and over.
So as Gadhafi forces were -- were bombing from the west of the city inwards, we were kind of pulling back slowly as that advance was coming.
COOPER: And you're all in one vehicle, you have a driver, a guy named Mohammed and you're driving what -- to the -- to the east gate of the city?
SHADID: Correct. And that was kind of the most, I think the haunting -- you know, what played over my head was that that creeping realization of what we were actually up against. And Lynsey was the first to realize it was a government checkpoint. And it must have been seconds but it felt like minutes as we got closer and closer, we saw the green military uniforms, the military vehicles and then almost I mean, almost instantly you realized that you were -- you were actually at a government checkpoint and that we had -- we had pretty much no options.
COOPER: And that's got to be the worst feeling I mean, to suddenly see the green vehicles and realize OK, wait a minute there's a level of organization here, these guys aren't the opposition forces, this is Gadhafi's people.
ADDARIO: And -- and you can't turn around and go back, because they'll open fire. I mean, you would assume they would open fire. You look more suspicious if you try to run away. So we just sort of -- we've made a decision to go forward. And at some point, you know, there's -- it's so chaotic, you don't know what the best option is.
I mean, Tyler was saying don't stop, don't stop, because we kind of just wanted to coast through and hope that they didn't recognize we are foreigners. But at the same time, they -- they knew that we were I mean, they saw Tyler in the front seat.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: And the risk is if you don't stop, they'll just open fire. ADDARIO: Right. I mean, you -- it's kind of a no win situation. So -- and then, our driver when he stopped the car and he jumped out and said, (INAUDIBLE) a "journalist." And then it was --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: And all hell broke loose.
ADDARIO: Yes.
COOPER: You -- you were yanked out of the vehicle first? Is that right Tyler?
HICKS: Correct, yes I was grabbed by my -- by my jacket and my camera straps and literally you know, pulled out violently out of the car. And at the moment that I was not even completely out of the car, we were attacked with heavy gunfire, very accurate gunfire from opposition fighters who we had just been with, just moments earlier.
COOPER: So the opposition guys are firing at you?
FARRELL: They were firing past us towards the check point. We were just caught in the middle. So as we were being pulled out of the car I think I've gone two steps, three steps into the road. Tyler was slightly in front of me, there was a soldier grabbing my bags, trying to pull me out. So I'm screaming at him "journalist, journalist, you know, foreigner, Americans, British" whatever and -- and he's -- he's trying to grab my bags.
And I'm sort of basically saying to him, really, in the middle of a gun battle? I mean, can't we do this over that sand dune over there and trying -- and you're -- you're facing the risk of am I going to get shot by these guys who I can't see or am I going to get shot by the guy pointing a Kalashnikov straight to my face.
COOPER: Quickly you find yourselves laying on your stomachs bound and you hear one of the soldiers -- you speak Arabic, right? You hear one of the soldiers say shoot them?
SHADID: That's correct. We were -- you know, we were put on our knees first and there was a lot of you know kind of slapping, there was you know, emptying our pockets. And I remember one of the soldiers was yelling at me, you're the translator, you're the spy.
And then soon after that, they forced us on our stomachs and I think we all had that that very sinking feeling that this was it. And I remember on my stomach looking up and I remember him being a tall soldier and saying shoot them. And it felt like to me again, it felt like a lot of time, you know, a lapse but I think it was just probably a matter of seconds. And another soldier said to them, you can't, they're Americans.
COOPER: I want to read something that -- that you wrote about that moment. You said, "At that moment, though, none of us thought we were going to live. Steve tried to keep eye contact until they pull the trigger. The rest of us felt the powerlessness of resignation. You feel empty when you know that it's almost over." What do -- explain that what do you mean?
SHADID: You know, I -- I don't know how -- how my colleagues felt, but I remember not -- it wasn't panic necessarily. It wasn't that kind of like desperation or flailing about that you know, you're about to be killed. It was almost that, you know, it's hard to describe other than calling it resignation or emptiness that the moment is drawing near and you're kind of waiting for it.
ADDARIO: Well, there's nothing you can do. You can't -- you're literally captive and you know that any move you make they can shoot you. So it's almost easier to just not move and say, OK, I might die right now and you resign to the fact that this could be the end.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: It sounds stupid, but I mean, you see that moment in movies of people lined up, put on the ground and then, shot and you always kind of think, well, why don't they run or do something? But do you --
(CROSSTALK)
ADDARIO: There is no point. I mean, what's the point? It will just be more violent. I mean you -- you know, I think your -- your better chance is to just hope that they take pity on you for being so terrified. I mean, I think we all just assumed we were about to die. And I mean, for me I just said OK, if this is the worst thing that's going to happen to us, I probably won't feel it. I mean, it will probably be quick.
HICKS: I agree that that you see these things in movies. Or you -- you know, for me, I played then through my head so many times --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You've been in a lot of tight situations. All of you have --
(CROSSTALK)
HICKS: Yes -- yes, and I -- I kind of -- I always thought I had myself mentally prepared, like if it gets to this point, I would do this. I would run, I would you know, just -- just try to get away. I would -- I would you know, there are so many things that you kind of have in the back of your mind, but really when that happens, all of that just got thrown out the window.
COOPER: You really thought you were going to die?
HICKS: Yes, yes. When they demanded we lay on our stomachs, we all -- we're -- were begging, no, no we don't want to go. We -- we're sorry, we're begging not to go on our stomachs. We all felt that once we were on our stomachs, they're just going to start shooting. And we're -- as soon as I went on my stomach, I was just waiting to hear gunfire. And it was really a sinking and empty feeling.
COOPER: Stephen is that why you wanted to maintain eye contact?
FARRELL: Yes, it's never over until it's over. I mean, unfortunately I'm fortunate I've been in this situation before more than once --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You were taken hostage in Afghanistan.
FARRELL: -- in Afghanistan and Iraq in 2004. And the --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Are you lucky or incredibly unlucky?
FARRELL: Both. Both -- the -- I mean, I -- there was no real question of making a run for it at that point because you're surrounded by guys with guns. And if you present your back to these guys, they're going to shoot you and enjoy doing it. You can only work them if you're looking at them, if you're looking in their eye --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Because if you're showing your back, what you're no longer a person, you're just -- you're easier to kill?
FARRELL: I just -- you can't be talking with them, you can't be negotiating with them, you can't be pleading with them if you're -- if you're backs turned to them. They're not going to have any compunction about shooting you; they're going to enjoy it
So we were just -- OK Anthony was working, Anthony was throwing the Arabic and I was throwing what Arabic I had at them. You listen, you just try -- you're just pushing -- you just push every button you can and as quickly as you can in the seconds you may or may not have. Journalist -- that wasn't working; Americans -- that did seem to hit a cord. Anthony is saying other things, these guys, Lynsey, I distinctly remember saying I just don't want to be raped. I just don't want to be raped.
(CROSSTALK)
ADDARIO: I'm begging, I just kept saying please don't, please don't because we were all waiting to be shot and so I just said, please.
FARRELL: And they were forcing us on a -- they were saying, get down. And we were all -- we all went halfway. Like it's crazy, you're like compromising with -- with -- with nothing to -- no cards to play. But you're trying to play them. Get down, right, I'll go on my knees I'm just not going all the way down face down, because then you've -- you've kind of lost everything.
COOPER: And you think it's the fact that they viewed you as Americans, that's what made the difference? SHADID: No, I think the idea of executing three Americans and a British journalist was -- would have had implications and it was -- there was -- there was going to be you know, repercussions of, you know, of basically executing us there at a checkpoint, that we were somehow, I'm afraid to say this without reading value into it, but we were somehow worth something.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: March 15: Opposition forces in Libya have retreated under heavy fire from several cities they had controlled.
Government forces are bearing down on Ajdabiya, the opposition's last defensive line before Benghazi, their de facto capital in the east.
Under intense shelling, residents of Ajdabiya are fleeing.
Four New York Times journalists covering the battle decide it's too dangerous to stay.
Lynsey Addario, Stephen Farrell, Tyler Hicks, Anthony Shadid and their driver Mohammed Shaglouf head out of the city but are stopped at a checkpoint.
It will be the last time anyone will hear from them for days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Let's just start at the beginning. You guys were driving out of Ajdabiya because you knew Gadhafi forces were moving in, right?
HICKS: Yes. We had been treating this in the same way that we had with other cities that had had fighting in them like Brega, Ras Lanuf. And we've -- we've seen these towns fall between the two sides over and over.
So as Gadhafi forces were -- were bombing from the west of the city inwards, we were kind of pulling back slowly as that advance was coming.
COOPER: And you're all in one vehicle, you have a driver, a guy named Mohammed and you're driving what -- to the -- to the east gate of the city?
SHADID: Correct. And that was kind of the most I think the haunting -- you know one thing that played over my head was that creeping realization of what we were actually up against. And Lynsey was the first to realize it was a government checkpoint. And it must have been seconds but it felt like minutes as we got closer and closer, we saw the green military uniforms, the military vehicles and then almost I mean, almost instantly you realized that you were -- you were actually at a government checkpoint and that we had -- we had pretty much no options.
COOPER: And that's got to be the worst feeling. I mean to suddenly see the green vehicles and realize OK, wait a minute there's a level of organization here, these guys aren't the opposition forces, this is Gadhafi's people.
ADDARIO: And you can't turn around and go back, because they'll open fire. I mean, you would assume they would open fire. You look more suspicious if you try and run away. So we just sort of -- we've made a decision to go forward. And at some point, you know, there's -- it's so chaotic, you don't know what the best option is.
I mean Tyler was saying don't stop, don't stop, because we kind of just wanted to coast through and hope that they didn't recognize we are foreigners. But at the same time, they -- they knew that we were. I mean, they saw Tyler in the front seat.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: And the risk is if you don't stop, they'll just open fire.
ADDARIO: Right. I mean you -- it's kind of a no win situation. So -- and then, our driver when he stopped the car and he jumped out and said (INAUDIBLE), we're "journalist." And then it was --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: And all hell broke loose.
ADDARIO: Yes.
COOPER: You -- you were yanked out of the vehicle first? Is that right Tyler?
HICKS: Correct, yes I was grabbed by my -- by my jacket and my camera straps and literally you know, pulled out violently out of the car. And at the moment that I was not even completely out of the car, we were attacked with heavy gunfire, very accurate gunfire from opposition fighters who we had just been with, just moments earlier.
COOPER: So the opposition guys are firing at you?
FARRELL: They were firing past us towards the check point. We were just caught in the middle. So as we were being pulled out of the car I think I've gone two steps, three steps into the road. Tyler was slightly in front of me, there was a soldier grabbing my bags, trying to pull me out.
So I'm screaming at him "journalist, journalist, you know, foreigner, Americans, British" whatever and he's -- he's trying to grab my bags. And I'm sort of basically saying to him, really, in the middle of a gun battle? I mean can we do this over that sand dune over there and try -- and you're -- you're facing the risk of am I going to get shot by these guys who I can't see or am I going to get shot by the guy pointing the Kalashnikov straight to my face.
COOPER: Quickly you find yourselves laying on your stomachs bound and you hear one of the soldiers -- you speak Arabic, right? You hear one of the soldiers say shoot them?
SHADID: That's correct. We were -- you know, we were put on our knees first and there was a lot of, you know, kind of slapping, there was, you know, emptying our pockets. And I remember one of the soldiers was yelling at me, you're the translator, you're the spy.
And then soon after that, they forced us on our stomachs and I think we all had that very sinking feeling that this was it. And I remember on my stomach looking up and I remember him being a tall soldier and saying shoot them. And it felt like to me again, it felt like a lot of time, you know, elapses but I think it was just probably a matter of seconds. And another soldier said to them, you can't, they're Americans.
COOPER: I want to read something that you wrote about that moment. You said, "At that moment, though, none of us thought we were going to live. Steve tried to keep eye contact until they pulled the trigger. The rest of us felt the powerlessness of resignation. You feel empty when you know that it's almost over." What do -- explain that what do you mean?
SHADID: You know, I -- I don't know how -- how my colleagues felt, but I remember not -- it wasn't panic necessarily. It wasn't that kind of like desperation or flailing about that you know, you're about to be killed. It was almost that, you know, it's hard to describe other than calling it resignation or emptiness that the moment is drawing near and you're kind of waiting for it.
ADDARIO: Well, there's nothing you can do. You can't -- you're literally captive and you know that any move you make they can shoot you. So it's almost easier to just not move and say, OK, I might die right now and you resign to the fact that this could be the end.
COOPER: It sounds stupid, but I mean you see that moment in movies of people lined up, put on the ground and then shot and you always kind of think, why don't they run or do something?
ADDARIO: There's no point. I mean what's the point? It will just be more violent.
You know, I think your better chance is you just hope that they take pity on you for being so terrified. You know, I mean I think we all just assumed we were about to die.
For me, I just said OK, if this is the worst thing that is going to happen to us, I probably won't feel it, you know. I mean it will probably be quick. HICKS: I agree that you see these things in movies. For me, I played them here in my head so many times.
COOPER: You've been in a lot of tight situations. All of you have.
HICKS: Yes, and I kind of always thought I had myself mentally prepared. Like if it gets to this point, I would do this; I would run, I would just try to get away. You know, there are so many things that you kind of have in the back of your mind. But really when that happens, all that just got thrown out the window.
COOPER: You really thought you were going to die?
HICKS: Yes. When they demanded we lay on our stomachs, we all were begging no, we don't want to go. We're sorry. We're begging not to go on our stomachs. We all felt that once we were on our stomachs they were just going to start shooting. As soon as I went on my stomach, I was just waiting to hear gunfire. And it was really a sinking and empty feeling.
COOPER: Stephen, is that why you wanted to maintain eye contact?
FARRELL: Yes, it's never over until it's over. And unfortunately, I've been in this situation before --
COOPER: You were taken hostage in Afghanistan?
FARRELL: In Afghanistan and in Iraq in 2004.
COOPER: Are you lucky or incredibly unlucky?
FARRELL: Both. I mean there was no real question of making a run for it at that point because you're surrounded by guys with guns. If you present your back to these guys, they're just going to shoot you and enjoy doing it. You can only work them if you're looking at them, if you're looking in their eye.
COOPER: If you're showing your back, what -- you're no longer a person, you're just -- you're easier to kill?
FARRELL: You can't be talking with them. You can't be negotiating. You can't be pleading with them if your back is turned to them. They're not going to have any compunction about shooting you; they're going to enjoy it.
So we were just -- Anthony was working. Anthony was throwing the Arabic. I was throwing what Arabic I had at them. You're listening. Your just trying -- you're just pushing -- you just push every button you can, as quickly as you can in the seconds you may or may not have. Journalists -- that wasn't working; Americans -- that did seem to hit a chord.
Anthony was saying other things. Lynsey, I distinctly remember saying, I just don't want to be raped. I just don't want to be raped.
ADDARIO: And begging. I just kept saying please don't, please don't because we were all waiting to be shot. So I just said, please.
FARRELL: They were forcing us on our -- they were saying get down. We all went halfway. It's crazy. You're like compromising with nothing, no cards to play. You're trying to play them. Get down, right, I'll go on my knees, I'm just not going all the way down, face down, because then you've kind of lost everything.
COOPER: And you think it's the fact that they viewed you as Americans, that's what made the difference?
SHADID: I think the idea of executing three Americans and a British journalist would have had implications. There was going to be repercussions of basically executing us there at a checkpoint, that we were somehow, I'm afraid to say this without reading value into it, but we were somehow worth something.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
March 15: Opposition forces in Libya have retreated under heavy fire from several cities they had controlled.
Government forces are bearing down on Ajdabiya, the opposition's last defensive line before Benghazi, their de facto capital in the east.
Under intense shelling, residents of Ajdabiya are fleeing.
Four New York Times journalists covering the battle decide it's too dangerous to stay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making a longer succession of years with high water levels --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You must get this question a lot. Why do you do this? What is it -- why do you feel it's important? All of you are incredibly experienced in incredibly difficult circumstances. You've all risked your lives numerous times. You've had two kidnappings. You, I believe, had one in Iraq. You've all been in jams. What is it that drives you to do it?
SHADID: You know, I think there are some stories worth taking risks for. You know, I think back to the decisions I've had to make over the years, staying in Baghdad in 2003 or covering a war in Lebanon in 2006, Ramallah in 2002. These stories, you do have that sense, and it is a little bit of a cliche, but there is some meaning to it.
And unless you're there covering it, no one is going to know about it. Unless you're there trying to bring meaning to it, bring a certain depth to it, it won't be done otherwise. I think that's the question I've been struggling with, is that the case in Ajdabiya before we got abducted? You know, would that story have not been told otherwise, and I don't know the answer to that, to be honest.
HICKS: I really think you take risks and they really -- those risks are always worth taking when you're back at your hotel and you've sent in your pictures and filed your stories and nothing happened and you got away with it. That's when a risk is worth taking. And when something bad happens, then you realize it wasn't worth taking.
ADDARIO: And I think in a place, you know, in this conflict, particularly there was no one else on the ground. So if we weren't up at the front line, no one knew what was happening. And you know, you could not get accurate information. We would ask the rebels, has Brega fallen? They would always say yes, we have Brega but they lie.
When we would go up, we realized you couldn't get, you know, five kilometers past the town before. So you really had to go on your own and work at it, because there was no one else to bring that information. And so, you know, I personally felt it was very important that we were there covering it, especially now that the U.S. is getting involved and there's talk about arming the rebels.
You know, we need accurate information. Who are the rebels? What's going on, on the ground? People need to see that if they're going to make decisions.
FARRELL: This was one of those stories -- this was one of those conflicts where if you were 20 miles behind the front line you had as much idea about what was going on as if you were 2,000 miles behind the front lines. What you're trying to do is you're going to try to put yourself in a position where you can cut through -- cut through this mess and say, this is what is happening.
These rebels are -- these people, these Gadhafi forces are doing this and this at a time when as Lynsey says, it's gone geopolitical; this, at a time when governments are about to commit lives and hundreds of millions of dollars into a conflict. And we're trying to say, if that's the resources you're going to be putting into this conflict, if you're going to choose to come in and interfere in this, this is what you're dealing with. This is the situation on the ground.
And it is the same risk you take that gets that journalistic or that information that also puts people in mortal peril. It is the same risk. If it works for you, it comes off. If it doesn't work for you, you get the blame. And that's just the way the job is.
COOPER: Is it hard being back? I mean I know you want to come home after a situation like this, that's completely normal and understandable. But it's got to be strange at the same time to see -- still see this stuff going on.
Is it -- I always find it hard going from one world to the other. All of a sudden you're on a plane and then you're in a completely world and the world keeps spinning and nobody knows what you've gone through. Is it strange being back?
HICKS: For me, it was really -- I wouldn't say strange. The reality of how this affects the people that I love really came forward. I mean what you put your family and your friends and your loved ones through and your employer and everyone. It was really quite emotional to come back and see how --
COOPER: More than anything has in the past?
Yes, definitely because there are three days that my family, for example, didn't know if I was dead or alive. That's a lot to put your family through and everyone else that you know.
ADDARIO: Exactly.
SHADID: I think that, you know, it's happened to me twice in my life. I was shot in 2002, and then this experience a couple of weeks ago. Looking at death or coming that close to death, I think it's not only the emptiness and resignation that you feel as it happens, but it's something that lingers a little while. It perhaps fades away over time, but it's something that you don't necessarily bounce back from right away.
ADDARIO: And I also think when you -- you know, there's nothing like coming home. But also when I walk around the streets of New York and I'm so happy to be home. But I look around me and most people don't care about what's happening in Libya. And I ask myself, why do I do this? Why am I so dedicated to this profession that no one cares about?
It's me -- I spend ten months out of the year in some weird hotel room alone like trying to watch whatever is on TV.
(CROSSTALK)
ADDARIO: Or I'm -- it's lonely, it's physically and emotionally taxing. It's a difficult profession, and when we walk around the streets of New York, I look around and most people have normal lives. And I think why do I do this? Why do I torture myself?
It's simply because I think it's really important for people to see what they don't want to see and for people to see the reality of people's lives outside of their little box.
COOPER: Do you think this is going to go on a long time in Libya, short of Gadhafi being killed?
SHADID: The one thing that was so clear to me, you know, seeing this kind of wreckage of the state, as we went from Ajdabiya all the way to Tripoli is that this is absolutely not going to be anything like Egypt or Tunisia. It's going to be messy. It's going to last a long time.
I think a generation is going to be haunted by this reckoning that is going to have to be made of what Gadhafi's rule is representative of for more than four decades. COOPER: I really admire all you so much. So thank you very much for talking to me.
ADDARIO: Thank you.
SHADID: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
March 15 to 21: For three days, the families of Four New York Times journalists held by pro-Gadhafi forces in Libya did not know if their loved ones were alive.
Once they surfaced, it took three more days to negotiate their release.
Paul de Bendern is Lynsey Addario's husband. Reem Makhoul is Stephen Farrell's wife.
Their spouses risk their lives to do their jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Where were you when you realized something was wrong?
REEM MAKHOUL, STEPHEN FARRELL'S WIFE: Steve and I are used to speak with each other every couple of hours, especially when he's in the field covering a story. That day he didn't -- he called me in the afternoon and didn't contact me for five or six hours after. So I started to be worried.
Then I contacted his colleague, who was in Benghazi in Libya. And he told me that he hadn't heard from Steve and the others about the same time. And then we knew that they were missing.
COOPER: That's got to be the worst feeling, to have your husband that far away and not be able to get information.
MAKHOUL: Yes. It's a very difficult feeling. Unfortunately I went through this before in 2009 when he was kidnapped by the Taliban. And I just know in situations like this, I have to be strong. I have to be able to -- answer e-mails and phone calls very quickly and be in control of my feelings.
COOPER: When did you know something was wrong?
PAUL DE BENDERN, LYNSEY ADDARIO'S HUSBAND: I spoke to her in the morning on that day. And she said that she had a feeling that things were turning negative and that, you know, the government forces were quite near and she wanted to get out of there. And I didn't -- a friend of mine called me in the evening and said have you heard from Lynsey or Tyler and then I got a suspicion that something was wrong. Then we started talking to each other, other friends and found out, and "The New York Times" got in touch.
Then, of course, you are on 24 -- every minute of the day it gets worst and worst because you don't know anything. I was in Delhi (ph) on my own flat and you know, pacing. I was kind of wearing down the floor as I was walking around, you know, with two laptops on the Reuters screen, what's going on, e-mailing, everything.
And then I didn't have any sleep for several days.
COOPER: Is there really anything that you can do? Because you don't have access to the information -- I mean no one knows where they are. What do you -- how do you pass the time?
MAKHOUL: You basically wait. "The New York Times" was in touch with us every single day. They were calling us, e-mailing us when they have news and when they didn't have news; all you have to do is wait.
And I was trying to call Steve's phone all the time, because the first few days we didn't know where they were. They were missing. No one called us or took responsibility or said that they have them. So I was trying to call his phone. They were ringing but no one answered. So I was basically thinking maybe they managed to run away and hide the phones or maybe something more terrible happened to them.
DE BENDERN: Everyone wants to help, as well which I always -- which is difficult, as well because it kind of exhausts you, too. Sometimes you don't want to talk to anybody. You just want to wait it out, in a way. And you want friends near, but at the same time I think the worst was the first three days, the days of not knowing because it was very odd that four Western journalists disappeared completely like out of thin air.
COOPER: Very experienced Western journalists who have been in the hottest places there are.
DE BENDERN: Yes, exactly. I had a positive feeling they were OK, but at the back of my mind, you always have this thing, well, what if a bomb dropped on their car. But then you would still think that they would be at one point recognized somehow.
Like you were saying, Lynsey had a mobile phone and it kept ringing. And this is kind of -- I mean I stopped at one point. It was ringing and then somebody hung up. They didn't pick up, they just ignored the call. Then I had to kind of stop calling because it just drove --
(CROSSTALK)
DE BENDERN: Yes. Completely.
MAKHOUL: I was thinking the same, calling them all the tile and then at some point, I thought what if they are hiding the phone and they need to call us and contact us and someone finds out that someone is trying to reach them. It's very confusing and emotionally exhausting not to know where they are and what state they are and what they're doing. It's really tiring.
COOPER: Did you -- in a case like this, do you watch the news? Do you -- are you trying to consume all the information you can? Or does that just make it worse?
MAKHOUL: Yes, I tried to watch the news. They read every piece of information about anything, whatever I could get from Libya. I speak Arabic, so I followed both Arabic news and English news. At some point I started reading about things that happened to other journalists that were kidnapped in Libya and it wasn't very pleasant.
At that point when I was reading these I decided I shouldn't. And I should stay focused and positive in order to be able to handle this because I didn't know if it was going to last for days or weeks.
COOPER: Now subsequently that what you've heard about what they went through, particularly in the first several days, what is it like for you hearing Lynsey describe what she went through?
DE BENDREN: I mean, it's tough but you know, you have to -- this is the job we do. I mean I think they were all lucky, the four of them, that they got out alive. They're all strong people and obviously this was very tough on them. You can clearly see that. And it is disturbing and I will spend time with her and I'm here for her.
You know, they went through things that nobody should ever have to go through. It's difficult to kind of process it still.
COOPER: When they got to Tripoli and basically were handed over to what they believe were military intelligence, they were able finally to make phone calls. What was that -- what was that call like for you?
MAKHOUL: It was very short, five to seven minutes but it was very assuring and it was in the middle of the night. Steve called and we spoke briefly and he sounded OK and he assured me over and over again that they were safe and uninjured and unharmed. That was very comforting.
One of the things that he told me was the things that kept him going was thinking of me and our 3-month-old daughter. And that's what kept him going and it was very beautiful thing to say. It was just really -- it took the stress away.
DE BENDERN: My most emotion was when I spoke first to Lynsey which was a day and a half after her. That's when you realize how traumatic it is, as well. Like you stay strong and when you hear the voice, it's really comforting. But you also -- it's like, so you get relieved but at the same time you also feel, wow, this is like, you know, we can't have this a lot of times.
COOPER: Would you want him to go back to Libya ever? MAKHOUL: I think it's a -- no, I don't think I want him to go back there. But I do want him to continue doing journalism that he does best. I met him when we both were covering the Israeli-Lebanon war in 2006. I knew what kind of job he has and the passion he has for this job and telling the world what is going on in the Middle East.
So I think I trust his judgment and I know that he's very careful. I worked with him and I still work with him and I know how he works in the field. So I know and I'm confident that he's able to take care of himself.
COOPER: This is his third close call. I mean, he was kidnapped in Iraq and Afghanistan and now here.
MAKHOUL: Yes, it's difficult every single time. It's very stressful. But he decided after Afghanistan not to go back to work in Afghanistan and dangerous places in Iraq. So these things do affect him and me and us as a family. These are the decisions we have to make.
COOPER: Would you want Lynsey to go back?
DE BENDERN: I think she can wait until, you know, if Gadhafi leaves and there's a new government. They're all very determined journalists and that's why we love them, too. This is part of their life and character. It's like cutting off an arm if you tell them to stop.
The number one thing you realize very quickly is how much you love the person. You don't think about the negative, you just think about how important they are and that you want them back.
But I also love what she does. So it's a kind of double edged sword. Yes, I want her to be home more, but at the same time she's an amazing woman and I married her because of that. Am I going to say stay home and not do that and have her complaining every day? No.
MAKHOUL: Absolutely.
DE BENDERN: I don't think that's going to work and I'm sure it's the same.
MAKHOUL: Yes. Absolutely. It's the same feeling.
COOPER: Well, I'm really glad it worked out the way it did.
MAKHOUL: Yes.
COOPER: Thanks very much for talking.
MAKHOUL: Thank you.
DE BENDERN: Thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: Today journalists continue to be targeted while covering the unrest in Libya.
According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, there have been more than 70 attacks against journalists in Libya since February.
At least two journalists have died.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
