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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Dr. Murray Found Guilty in Michael Jackson Death Trial
Aired November 07, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks. Good evening, everyone. We begin with "Crime & Punishment" and the verdict that everyone is talking about tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury in the above-entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter in violation of Penal Code section 192 Subsection B. Alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As you just saw, Dr. Murray showing no emotion as the verdict was read, but outside the courthouse Jackson fans erupted. Throughout the trial Jackson supporters have gathered in front of the building offering words of encouragement to Jackson's family. Today Latoya Jackson thanked them. Her joy at the verdict unmistakable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LATOYA JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S SISTER: Michael loves everybody out here. I love -- we all love them. And guess what? He was in that courtroom, and that's why victory was served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jermaine Jackson also spoke briefly as he left the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S BROTHER: Justice was served, yes. It wasn't enough time, though.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What would you say for Michael?
J. JACKSON: Michael's with us. Michael's with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jackson's mother and father, Joe and Katherine, were cheered as they made their way through the crowd. This is the verdict the Jacksons were hoping for. But prosecutor David Walgren said that many people must have been thinking for the Jacksons today, the verdict -- it isn't an end to the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WALGREN, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Our sympathies go out to the Jackson family at this time for their loss that they have suffered. Not a pop icon, but a son and brother, and I think that's the most important to keep in mind today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A son and a brother and also, of course, a father to Prince, and Paris and Blanket. During the trial the prosecution repeatedly reminded the jury that the three kids are now orphans. A loss that can't be measured. We all saw their pain at Jackson's memorial service and we can't forget the moment when Paris Jackson spoke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARIS JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S DAUGHTER: I just want to say --
JANET JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S SISTER: Speak up.
P. JACKSON: Ever since I was born, Daddy has been the best father you can ever imagine. And I just wanted to say I love him. So much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Today's verdict came two years, four months and 13 days after Michael Jackson died. And just ahead tonight, what comes next? How much prison time is Dr. Murray likely to serve? And will he lose his medical license.
But first here's Randi Kaye on how we got to this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The desperate 911 call comes from inside Michael Jackson's rented Beverly Hills mansion. It is just before 12:30 p.m., June 25th, 2009, in Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's pumping, he's pumping his chest, but he's not responding to anything, sir.
KAYE: The king of pop's heart had stopped, he is unconscious. His personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, who can be heard in the background on the call made by Jackson's security guard, is attempting CPR.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor's been the only one here.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. So the doctor seen what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doctor, did you see what happened, sir? Just, sir, if you can please --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: We're on our way.
KAYE: As the emergency unfolds, news spreads.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're getting some breaking news coming into "THE SITUATION ROOM" right now from -- about Michael Jackson, the king of pop.
KAYE: His family is at his hospital bedside.
JERMAINE JACKSON: My brother, the legendary king of pop, Michael Jackson, passed away on Thursday, June 25th, 2009 at 2:26 p.m.
KAYE: Sorrow, shock and so many unanswered questions. Immediately, the investigation begins to focus on Jackson's physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, a cardiologist hired to care for the pop star as he prepared for the upcoming concert tour.
June 26th, the day after Jackson died, police announced they impounded Dr. Murray's car from the singer's mansion. In search of prescription medications that could be, quote, "pertinent to the investigation."
Days later, on June 30th, a registered nurse tells CNN Jackson had insomnia and had asked her for Diprivan, a very powerful sedative, also known as propofol.
CHERILYNN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FORMER NURSE: And I said, Michael, if you take that medicine, you might not wake up.
KAYE: On August 18th, Dr. Murray makes his first public comments. He releases this video online.
DR. CONRAD MURRAY, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FORMER DOCTOR: I've done all I could do. I told the truth and I have faith the truth will prevail.
KAYE: August 24th. The L.A. county coroner concludes Jackson died of an overdose of propofol. According to an affidavit, Dr. Murray told detectives he'd been treating Jackson for insomnia for weeks. Murray says he tried other drugs, but the pop star demanded propofol to help him sleep. So at 10:40 a.m., the day he died, he gave him 25 milligrams of it. 911 was called almost two hours later.
COOPER: And what about Murray's actions the day Jackson collapsed? Have you learned anything more about where he was actually when the singer stopped breathing?
KAYE (on camera): He said he finally went to sleep, according to this affidavit, he watched him for about 10 minutes, and then he left the room to use the bathroom. He said he was gone for about two minutes maximum, according to the documents. And when he came back, Michael Jackson wasn't breathing.
(Voice-over): On February 8th, 2010, Dr. Conrad Murray is officially charged with involuntary manslaughter. He surrenders to authorities, pleads not guilty, and is released on $75,000 bail.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Today Dr. Murray's request for bail was denied. He left the courtroom in handcuffs, a convicted felon, to await sentencing on November 29th. And here's what the judge said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE MICHAEL PASTOR, LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT: Public protection as far as I'm concerned dictates that the defendant be remanded without bail in view of the fact that Dr. Murray has been convicted of a crime involving homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Randi Kaye joins me now along with Marcia Clark, former Los Angeles deputy district attorney and author of "Guilt by Association." Also with us criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, and chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Jeff, was this the right verdict?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Seemed that way to me. I was skeptical of this case when it was brought. I thought given Michael Jackson's history of addiction, given all the possible involvements in his ill health, blaming Conrad Murray seemed unfair.
But I thought the prosecution did an excellent job. They laid out a very straightforward case. And they showed that this was not just, you know, arguably bad medicine. This was really deep, deep incompetence. But they also didn't charge him with too much. They didn't charge him with murder. They charged him with a fairly -- you know, a minor felony but still a felony and they got the verdict they deserved.
COOPER: Randi, you were in the court when the verdict was read. Conrad Murray was placed in handcuffs. I know there was a lot that you saw and heard that the fixed TV camera didn't capture. What -- what struck you?
KAYE: Well, if you're watching at home, you probably didn't see Katherine Jackson, Michael Jackson's mother, break down in tears as soon as that verdict was read. She was comforted by her two sons, Jermaine Jackson and Randy Jackson. Latoya Jackson, Michael Jackson's sister, let out a shriek even though we were all warned not to make any type of reaction to the verdict.
But on the other side of the courtroom, Anderson, was Conrad Murray and his family and friends. Conrad Murray, when that verdict was read, Anderson, he did not react at all. He sat there stone faced just staring at the bench and the judge.
But what was interesting was -- then the next thing the judge did was dismiss the jury and he sentenced Conrad Murray -- told him to go straight to jail even though the defense has said, you know, he's not a flight risk, keep him here. But the judge said that you know what? He's now a convicted felon. This was a homicide even though it was a lower class of a felony. It still was a homicide.
He said he could be a danger to the public. And he said he will stay in jail until his sentencing on November 29th. But the most bizarre moment as you said was when he was handcuffed. The court proceeding wasn't even done yet and the deputies all went around and started handcuffing him, Anderson, as he was still sitting in his chair. And even the judge said, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, let's give him a second here, let's wait a minute.
And as he left, his mother was in the courtroom, his daughter was in the courtroom, he gave them a nod and his girlfriend was in the courtroom as well, Nicole Alvarez, who testified in this trial, and she whispered to him, I love you.
COOPER: Mark Geragos, were you surprised at the verdict?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I actually thought if it was going to be the best the defense could hope for was a hung. And when they went past Friday afternoon, I thought maybe they have a hung. When it came back this morning with a verdict, I thought it would be guilt. I think the defense team thought it would be guilty. That's one of the reasons I think he was sitting there stone faced.
He was warned, I'm sure, that look, it's guilty if they came back today because it was never going to be a not guilty verdict. And they warned him that he was going to be remanded, meaning put into custody immediately.
COOPER: Yes, let's talk about that. I mean a lot of people are talking about the fact that Murray's immediately being sent to jail where he waits sentencing. The judge saying he's basically a threat to society. Do you agree with that?
GERAGOS: Well, do I agree with that? I -- you know, I'm not going to argue with Judge Pastor. I will tell you, however, that it's fully expected and this telegraphs, by the way, Anderson, that Judge Pastor is going to max him out, give him four years. I don't think there's any question about it. He's not going to get probation.
COOPER: Marcia Clark, do you agree with that?
MARCIA CLARK, FORMER LOS ANGELES DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I think it's very likely Mark is right. How much time he actually winds up doing, Anderson, that's a different story.
And first of all, I think that he had to remand him. I don't think any judge wants to be the guy that lets Conrad Murray skip out and wind up in Guam somewhere. So I just think it was a pretty much a foregone conclusion. He was going to get no bail. But how much that time he actually does given the problem we have with jail overcrowding here in California, very debatable. Even the possibility of house arrest is a very strong one, given our new sentencing laws.
COOPER: So even if he's given the maximum of four years, he could still just end up getting house arrest or probation? Not house arrest. Probation.
CLARK: It's possible. It's very -- yes, I know what you're saying and it's possible. Anything is possible right now. We have what we call new alignment loss. I think Steve Cooley referred to that today during a press conference, and it's true. They are now saving the beds for the most violent and dangerous criminals. And Conrad Murray does not qualify in that class of criminal and so we'll likely get something very much shorter than four years in state prison.
TOOBIN: You said house arrest. He could get house arrest.
COOPER: Really?
TOOBIN: I mean, they are --
CLARK: He could.
TOOBIN: People who are nonviolent criminals are doing their time at home. I mean Lindsay Lohan, obviously, it's a much less serious crime. She did most of her time at home. He will probably never go to state prison, the big prisons, but he will do his time in a local jail.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Right, a local jail and perhaps at home.
COOPER: Sanjay, so much of this case --
GERAGOS: Yes, it's not --
COOPER: Go ahead, Mark.
GERAGOS: I was just going to say it's not a state -- under the new realignment it's not a state prison felony. The most he's ever going to do is county jail, and then it's up to the sheriff. It's not going to be up to the judge. It's going to be up to the sheriff as to whether or not he's going to be released on electronic monitor.
COOPER: Sanjay, so much of this case hinged on medical evidence.
CLARK: Correct.
COOPER: Different kind of drugs, different amounts, and ways of administering them. I mean was this in the end a slam dunk case?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think it was a slam dunk case, but I think it was a pretty strong one for sure. I mean, one thing I thought the defense was going to start to try to make the case for at some point was that this wasn't as unusual as it sounded.
This idea of someone using propofol, a doctor using propofol outside a clinical setting inside someone's home. You and I have talked about this, Anderson. It struck me as very bizarre. I think it struck a lot of people in the medical community as very strange, something they'd never heard of.
And I kept thinking they're going to drag out a witness, an expert who's going to say, you know what, actually, not that unusual. That never happened. It was bizarre then, it remains bizarre now. And I think regardless of this -- the whole discussion about who in fact administered the medication, the propofol in the end, just the sheer negligence of using this medication at home without monitoring equipment without resuscitation equipment seemed to be very convincing.
COOPER: I want our panel to stay with us. A lot more to talk about. We're going take a quick break. We're on Facebook, follow me on Twitter @Andersoncooper. I'll be tweeting tonight.
Also ahead on the program tonight, "Raw Politics." A stunning new allegation facing Herman Cain. A fourth woman now coming forward publicly describing what he allegedly did to her 14 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was very, very surprised and very shocked. I said, what are you doing? You know I have a boyfriend. This isn't what I came here for. Mr. Cain said, you want a job, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Let's also check with Isha Sesay -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson.
A sex abuse scandal rocks Penn State University. A former football coach accused of abusing young boys after earning their trust. And two university officials accused of knowing about the allegation years ago have stepped down and are facing criminal charges, too.
That and much more when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" tonight. Dr. Conrad Murray now a convicted felon, found guilty today of involuntary manslaughter, left the court in handcuffs. His trial made propofol, the anesthetic that killed Michael Jackson, a household word. It's a familiar drug certainly in hospitals.
Chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta took us into an operating room to show us just how fast it works. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA (on camera): OK. So the propofol --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to start infusing this. You're going to get a little sleepy, Vincent, OK? Give me some good, deep breaths.
GUPTA: Watch this go -- and take a look at his eyes, how quickly he's --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep breath, Vincent. Doing great. May feel a little burning. OK?
GUPTA: Ten, nine --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deep breath.
GUPTA: -- eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's amazing how quick it work. Sanjay joins me now with the rest of our panel, Randi Kaye, Mark Geragos, Marcia Clark, and Jeffrey Toobin.
So, Sanjay, the DA said the verdict should send a powerful message to doctors particularly in Hollywood who may be tempted to play the role, in his words, of Dr. Feelgood. Do you agree with that? And how big a problem you think that is still?
GUPTA: I think there's going to be a couple of messages sent, but I'll preface by saying that this -- this is a very unusual situation, a bizarre one. It's not one of these situations where you say this is an indicator of much more rampant behavior like this. I don't -- you know, I would venture a guess that this -- what you have seen, you know, sort of unfold here is something that, you know, is very hard to say it happens anywhere else.
So I don't know that that message regarding propofol specifically will be sent. I think two things -- one is propofol is not a controlled substance, Anderson. I think that that is surprising to a lot of people. But it's not, in part because I don't think people imagined it could be abused in this manner.
And I do think to some extent these doctors who are, quote- unquote, "the Hollywood doctors," the concierge doctors, who are taking care of just one or two patients, they may receive a message from all this. To be very careful in how they're prescribing drug habits and how they may be influenced by their patients to do things like this.
COOPER: I know there's been some confusion, Sanjay, about the status of Murray's license. If he's behind bars, you know, it's not the most pressing issue, but if and when he's released, this really comes back to the forefront. And what do you know? GUPTA: Yes. This is actually pretty interesting. And I think common sense will tell you that he's going to lose his medical license in the four states in which he has had medical licenses. But one thing that's very clear -- and we actually called the California Medical Board specifically about this this afternoon. And they say it is still ultimately up to the state medical board. And four states are California, Nevada, Texas and Hawaii.
They will individually decide about the status of his medical license. As you say, when he's in jail, it's obviously a moot point, but afterwards they will decide that as well. And even during this trial, California did suspend his license, in Hawaii it expired, but in Texas and Nevada, he still had a medical license, albeit without the ability to prescribe medications.
COOPER: Marcia, I want to play something that the DA said during closing arguments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALGREN: Michael Jackson trusted Conrad Murray. He trusted him with his life. He paid with his life. The evidence in this case is overwhelming. The evidence in this case is abundantly clear that Conrad Murray acted with criminal negligence. That Conrad Murray caused the death of Michael Jackson. That Conrad Murray left Prince, Paris and Blanket without a father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Marcia, how big a win is this for the DA's office? And how complex a case was it?
CLARK: Well, at the end of the day, what was interesting, Anderson, is that was actually a very simple case. What I thought would be an extremely complex medical case that would leave a lot of jurors in the -- in the dust actually turned out to be a very simple matter of, hey, nobody gives propofol in a bedroom without a crash cart, without proper monitoring, and certainly nobody who administers propofol leaves the patient alone in the room.
And they were able to prove both of those things, making it so easy for a jury to follow along and to understand. And it's a big win. It's an important win because it is certainly a high profile case. It sends an important message about the care doctors should be taking with their patients and about asserting themselves in terms of not buying into things that a celebrity wants just to keep that celebrity as a patient.
That said, to take it any farther than that, I don't know. This was not a case with a celebrity defendant. This was a case with a celebrity victim. And to the extent that a trial is a popularity contest, that popularity resided very completely on the side of the prosecution. Not only that, but the prosecution had an overwhelming case that was really true what he said, it was, a case of abundant evidence, and the defense had absolutely no cards to play. And it really wound up being very simple. COOPER: Mark, do you think there are any ground for an appeal here for Dr. Murray?
GERAGOS: Well, there's grounds for appeal on some of the pretrial evidentiary rulings. When Judge Pastor excluded a lot of the things that the defense wanted to do. The problem is in the Court of Appeal is they're going to say, oh, even if you made an error, it's a harmless error and the evidence was overwhelming anyways. So I certainly if I were him and advising him, would not be telling him to get ready to pack your things, you're going to be sprung from the county jail any time soon.
COOPER: Randi, you were in the court for a lot of this. What do you think was some of the key evidence in court that really sealed his fate?
KAYE: Well, I think, Anderson, sitting in that courtroom, you could really tell what the jury reacted to. And I think one of the things was, was that the defense had always said that Conrad Murray was trying to wean Michael Jackson off this propofol. Yet the state showed evidence that he had bought from a pharmacy four gallons of propofol to bring into that home and kept bringing it into the home to Michael Jackson. So they didn't buy the idea, clearly, that he was trying to wean him off.
Another piece of evidence were his cell phone records from the morning that Michael Jackson collapsed and stopped breathing. They said that he had abandoned his patient and sure enough those records show that he was texting and he was on his cell phone making and receiving calls that day.
And I think the last thing is, is that the state had said, that you know what, no matter what, even if Michael Jackson did give himself that fatal dose which is what the defense had said without realizing it would kill him, the state hammered home, it was Conrad Murray who brought that propofol into the home and that definitely struck a nerve with the jury.
COOPER: Jeff, I think a lot of people were surprised by the idea that, OK, even if he gets four years he might just end up being on probation. How common -- I mean is that in other states as well?
TOOBIN: Well --
COOPER: How big an overcrowding?
TOOBIN: California is in a unique situation at this point because of the fiscal crisis. They are really cleaning out their prisons of nonviolent offenders. They have had an enormous increase in their population -- prison population. It's shrinking -- it's shrinking there more than in any other state, but it is fairly common for people who are sentenced to -- who are convicted of something less than major violent crimes, to do a little bit of time, although that's less true in federal court.
White-collar criminals these days they do a lot of time. Bernie Madoff is doing 150 years. Not many people are doing 150 years but a lot of people in federal court are doing a lot of time.
COOPER: Jeff, Sanjay, Randi, Marcia, and Mark, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Later tonight on the program, a special investigation into the final days and hours of Michael Jackson's life, including some heart- wrenching testimony from the last people to see him alive. Michael Jackson, the final days, is ahead at 11:00 Eastern tonight.
Up next "Raw Politics." Another woman stepping forward with allegations of inappropriate sexual behavior by Herman Cain. I don't know if you saw the press conference that was carried live today on CNN. He is denying the claims. We'll tell you what she had to say at that news conference today.
Also ahead, amazing video caught by storm chasers in Oklahoma. We'll have the latest on the storms and the scandal right now at Penn State over allegations against a football coach.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Coming up, a new allegation against Herman Cain. A woman says Cain made unwanted sexual advance toward her in 1997. She had a news conference today, told her side of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON BIALEK, CAIN ACCUSER: I told my boyfriend Mr. Cain had been very sexually inappropriate with me. And shortly thereafter I told another friend of mine who has been a mentor the same thing. I didn't tell them the details because, quite frankly, I was very embarrassed at -- that Mr. Cain had been sexually inappropriate to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can hear her specific allegations and what the Cain campaign has to say about it coming up tonight. First, Isha is back with a "360 Bulletin."
SESAY: Anderson, in Syria, opposition groups are asking for international help. A warning, the images you are about to see are graphic.
The opposition groups are asking the Arab League and the U.N. to help protect civilians in the western city of Homs. The opposition said eight people were killed there today and at least 16 yesterday.
In Greece, a replacement for Prime Minister George Papandreou will be announced Tuesday. Yesterday Papandreou agreed to step aside as long as a European bailout plan is approved. New elections will take place after that bailout is put in place.
Storm chasers in Oklahoma captured this amazing video of a tornado in Tipton, in southwestern part of the state. Well, much of the area is under a tornado warning or watch tonight, there have been reports of minor damage.
And in New York, a man using a rope and harness dangles from the Tappan Zee Bridge for three hours today before police lowered him into the Hudson River and took him into custody. The man was fired from a county government job several years ago and held a sign protesting local officials.
COOPER: That's strange.
SESAY: Yes. Yes. And speaking of strange, how did you say my name at the top of the show?
COOPER: I know. I'm sorry. I don't know what happened. I had some sort of a brain freeze. It's --
SESAY: It was like Destiny's Child. Say my name again?
COOPER: I know. You were very kind to just let it go. At the time. Now you bring it up. Later. After the fact.
SESAY: Until now. Yes. Well, you know.
COOPER: Shall we proceed with the show?
SESAY: Well, OK. Go ahead.
COOPER: Found this on Youtube, a dog and a police horse making friends in New York. The person who posted this saw the scene playing out on the walk back to the office from lunch. Kind of want the horse to just pick up the dog, but no. It's not the first time -- wait.
SESAY: It can get ugly.
COOPER: I like how the dog twists around.
SESAY: He's got the moves.
COOPER: That's sweet. That kid is like, all right, enough of the dog. We've seen this kind of canine equine intersection on the streets in New York City before. We showed this a few months ago. A police officer's horse couldn't resist this taste of the dog.
SESAY: You know, if we came back in another life, I'd be the dog, you'd be the horse or would it be the other way around? I'm not sure.
COOPER: I'm not sure.
SESAY: Yes.
COOPER: I always feel bad for the horses on the streets of New York, but these ones are police horses, so that's fine.
SESAY: the dog doesn't look too impressed. COOPER: I actually wanted to be a horse policeman when I was a kid. That's one of the many things I wanted to do. I thought it would be really cool.
SESAY: And you thought it -- why?
COOPER: I don't know. It would be call because I'd get to ride a horse and be a policeman. Thought it would be neat. No?
SESAY: No. But you know, I'll file that away. I have a big vault for all the stuff you say going in the vault.
COOPER: Yes, it's all fascinating. All right, we'll check back in with Isha Sesay later in the program.
SESAY: We'll work on that.
Still ahead, new accusations facing Herman Cain now. This time from a Chicago woman who says Cain groped her and just wants him to, quote, "admit what he did." Hear her story in her own words.
Also ahead, really shocking abuse allegations, sexual abuse allegations against a former Penn State University football coach. His alleged victims were young boys.
What's even more incredible or on top of this, if that wasn't bad enough, two top university officials are also facing charges accused of covering up the alleged crimes, knowing about it, and doing nothing about it. New details coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Raw politics tonight, another woman coming forward claiming she was sexually harassed by Herman Cain. Sharon Bialek is the fourth woman accusing the GOP presidential candidate of inappropriate behavior.
Like the others, she has ties to the National Restaurant Association, but she's the first to speak out on camera. She dropped a bombshell in a news conference today.
She claimed she was groped by Cain after they had dinner in 1997. At the time, Cain was the head of the association. She said she met with him to ask him if he could help her get rehired or find another job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON BIALEK, CAIN ACCUSER: He said that he would show me where the National Restaurant Association offices were. He parked the car down the block. I thought that we were going to go into the offices so he could show me around.
At that time, I had on a black pleated skirt, a suit jacket and a blouse. He had on a suit with his shirt open. But instead of going in to the offices, he suddenly reached over and he put his hand on my leg under my skirt and reached for my genitals.
He also grabbed my head and brought it towards his crotch. I was very, very surprised and very shocked. I said, what are you doing. You know I have a boyfriend.
This isn't what I came here for. Mr. Cain said, you want a job, right? I asked him to stop and he did. I asked him to take me back to my hotel, which he did, right away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Sharon Bialek in her own words. The Cain campaign denies the unwanted sexual advance. In a statement, it says all allegations of harassment against Mr. Cain are completely false. Mr. Cain has never harassed anyone.
Fortunately, the American people will not allow Mr. Cain's bold 9-9-9 plan, clear foreign policy vision and plans for energy independence to be overshadowed by these bogus attacks. New poll numbers show the allegations aren't hurting Cain's campaign.
Let's talk it over with Ari Fleischer, former press secretary for President George W. Bush and Democratic strategist, James Carville.
So James, the fact is until today there hadn't been a face or really a voice to go with some of these charges. Now there is. Does that make a difference?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the whole thing makes a difference because people are going to say, well, this was today, what's going to happen tomorrow or the next day?
Once these things start, it's endless. And I suspect that he's really -- we're going to see in the next 10 days that he's really been hurt in the polls.
I never thought he had a chance to be the Republican nominee. I certainly don't think so after this. Less than zero, but whatever it is, he's gone into negative territory now.
COOPER: Ari, I want to read you some of what Bill Bennett had to say in the CNN Editorial Publishing tonight. He says and I quote, "If Herman Cain cannot stand up to these charges, if he refuses to, then he should step out of the race. A man big enough to run for president should be big enough to have a full and candid press conference on all of this." Do you agree with that?
ARI FLEISCHER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, no, I don't think he should give a full and candid press conference on this. I think people are sick of this. But I do think what's fundamentally important, I said before any of this broke, that as much as I like Herman Cain and want an outsider, Herman Cain is not ready to be the president of the United States.
I wish he was a governor and had more experience. I think if he did, he would be handling this differently, plus he also likely would have been vetted.
COOPER: Are you saying that he's not ready based on the way he's responded to this?
FLEISCHER: No, I've said all along, I'd said it for months that Herman Cain is not ready to be president, as much as I like him as an outsider. I want somebody with gubernatorial experience, somebody who knows how to deal with an unruly legislature.
Herman Cain does not have that experience so I think voters are enjoying this flirtation with Herman Cain and I've been one of those flirtees, but I don't think that Herman Cain at the end of the day was presidential material before any of this news about women broke.
Now it's different about this and where I think for Cain supporters, it will start to chip away a number of them. You have a face, you have a voice, you have a name, and you have a woman on the record. All the previous three were anonymous.
And that makes it very unfair. Herman Cain was being judged by was he saying excuse me too loud, was his temper starting to show, is he good at crisis management, none of which I thought were valid issues to measure a president by.
This now, though, is very troubling because assuming he was presidential. People don't want to go through this on the Republican side. They don't want to take a chance that we would have a flawed nominee who could be made mince meat by Democrats and independents in a general election. So it is starting to add up to too much.
COOPER: So, Ari, does he have to address this specific case?
FLEISCHER: Well, I think he's going to address it by just saying none of it is true, it's all made up, it's all fabrication and then try to get back to his central message.
The problem with that is this woman had so many details, specifics, where they were parked, et cetera. There's enough there that makes it sound like she certainly knows what she's talking about.
It will end up he said, she said, I suspect, but I think a big news conference would be unseemingly, ungainly, he's probably just going to deny it.
COOPER: James, I mean, you know counseled people in this position before. How do you respond to something like this? I mean, can he get himself out of this?
CARVILLE: I don't think that he can, but again, he doesn't have like a campaign. He's not running line somebody would run a campaign like Bill Clinton ran in '92 or some of the Bush campaigns, or other people.
He doesn't have the infrastructure. He doesn't have any experience in dealing with this. He got into something that he had utterly no business being in and it's showing. And the idea that he would be the nominee I think from the get-go was absurd.
And he started to take himself seriously. And, you know, he's obviously not going to do very well and this will take a toll now. But this happens when people run for president. I mean, any number of people -- I mean, you go through something like this.
And, you know, it does show the fissures and, as Ari points out, the lack of experience and the lack of being able to deal with this and there's not a good explanation. I'd love for him to have a press conference.
And let it all hang out, as they say, for a couple, three hours. It would be marvelously entertaining for all of us, but it doesn't have anything to do with the nominee for president.
FLEISCHER: The only hope here, Anderson, is that some independent reporter really pokes holes in her story, and finds it what she said was wrong, couldn't it be true. It wasn't here, wrong date, doesn't add up. I think absent that happening, this is just going to lead to further erosion for Herman Cain. I hate to say it, but I think that's the fact.
COOPER: I do want to look at these polls for a minute because all the polls conducted before the press conference do show him tied with Mitt Romney at the top.
But if you look at the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll, which was released today, it shows Cain's unfavorable rating doubled in the past month.
At some point, do primary voters just not care what was -- that -- that -- you know -- where do you see these numbers going? As this drip, drip, drip continues, do you see these poll numbers continuing to fall?
FLEISCHER: I do, Anderson. I think what initially happens, especially with conservative Republican primary voters after a story breaks in the mainstream media, there's a rally around the flag type of effect.
That people just push back saying this is the media talking, and I don't like it. There's a legitimate element to that. But when you have somebody making a substantive charge on the record about the actual conduct, the sexual -- alleged here sexual assault conduct, it really does start to change things. And I think over time, it will start to erode.
COOPER: Ari Fleischer, James Carville, guys, thanks very much. James, did you want to say something?
CARVILLE: The only the relevant number that everybody will be looking at over the next two to three weeks is Romney's number. If it doesn't move that signals some serious flaw with his candidacy, but we'll see. I think that's the big number to look at.
COOPER: All right, James, thanks and Ari as well. We're going to hear more from Cain's accuser when she joins Piers Morgan next on "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT." Piers joins us now -- Piers.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT": Yes, thanks, Anderson. We have much more tonight on the shocking details of that sexual harassment allegation against Herman Cain.
Tonight, I'll talk to the only accuser to speak out publicly, Sharon Bialek. She joins me with her attorney, Gloria Allred in her first live primitive exclusive.
Plus new details on the conviction of Michael Jackson's doctor. I'll sit down with a member of Conrad Murray's defense team, another exclusive interview so a busy night, Anderson. Back to you.
COOPER: I'll look forward to it. Thanks, Piers.
Tonight, a former Penn State football coach accused of unspeakable acts against young boys. The allegations date back to his days as the team's offensive coordinator.
A lot of questions tonight, what did legendary head coach, Joe Paterno know? Why are two of the school's top administrators now also facing criminal charges in the case? New details on that ahead.
And Amanda Knox's co-defendant speaking out about his life since they were released from an Italian jail. He's opening up about their relationship as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight, a sexual abuse scandal is rocking the Penn State football program. Retired defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, was arrested and accused of having sex with young boys.
All the alleged victims met him through the Second Mile, the charity he started in 1997 to help troubled kids. The group is now urging any other possible victim to notify police. The charges are the result of an investigation that began three years ago after one of the boys told his mother of what Sandusky was up to.
The grand jury's report details allegations dating back to 1994. That's five years before he retired from the Penn State coaching squad. At a news conference today, Pennsylvania State police commissioner questioned why the school didn't do more to bring the case to light sooner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK NOONAM, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE COMMISSIONER: This is not a case about football. It's not a case about universities. It's a case about children who have had their innocence stolen from them and a culture that did nothing to stop it or prevent it from happening to others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Sandusky facing criminal charges. Tonight two other school officials are as well. I spoke to Jason Carroll about the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So, Jason, the attorney general laid out the accusations in a grand jury report, which is very graphic at times. What can you tell us about it?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so many things. It basically lays out eight victims. They're identified as victim number one, two, three, four and so on and so on.
What you notice out of this grand jury report, Anderson, is you see a familiar pattern that prosecutors have laid out basically saying that Sandusky basically lured these young boys in and then kept them around by showering them with gifts.
He would give them shoes. He would invite them to football games. Things like that and then once he earned their trust, he would then allegedly sexually assault them in various places.
Whether it be in the locker room at the football stadium, at his home in the basement or at a school. It was very graphic, very disturbing to read this 23-page report -- Anderson.
COOPER: And the age of the kids?
CARROLL: Some as young as possibly 8 years old, Anderson, as old as 14 taking place over several years. When you read something like that and then you read the graphic nature of how the sexual abuse took place, it's no wonder that one of the police that was investigating said it was one of the most troubling cases he had seen in his 40-year career.
COOPER: What's also stunning are these allegations that two university officials knew what was going on, but failed to report it. They've been charged as well, correct?
CARROLL: Yes, that's correct. That would be Gary Schultz and Timothy Kerley. Both of them out on $75,000 bail, Anderson. They're both charged with perjury and also charged with failing to report.
And that really gets to the heart of this issue because prosecutors are wondering why so many of these officials, school officials, when an allegation came to them, why no one brought the allegation of sexual abuse to police, which, under Pennsylvania State law, is required.
COOPER: It's stunning to me. So you said there are eight victims described in the report, but have all the victims been identified? I mean, could there be more?
CARROLL: When you look at this grand jury report, it's very clear that victim number two was identified as victim number two and then victim number eight, they still haven't found them, Anderson.
They're hoping by having press conferences and all the media coverage, maybe some of these young boys who are now actually young adults at this point will see what is happening and come forward.
COOPER: Just a stunning story. We'll continue to follow it, obviously. Jason, thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Following a number of other stories right now. Isha is back again with a "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Isha.
SESAY: Anderson, a Texas court granting a stay of execution of convicted killer, Henry Hank Skinner to allow new DNA testing. He was set to die Wednesday for the 1993 murder of his girlfriend and her two sons. Skinner claims DNA on untested evidence will clear him.
Amanda Knox's former co-defendant is now officially her ex- boyfriend. "The Daily Mirror" reporting Raffaelle Sollecito told Italian TV he still has great affection for Knox, but nothing else. He compared their love to a little seed that was brutally stomped on.
Warren Buffett taking advantage of Wall Street's worst quarter since the start of the financial crisis. He went bargain hunting picking up $7 billion in stocks between July and September. He also bought chemical company, Lubrizol and a large stake in Bank of America. The total of the shopping spree is near $20 billion.
And Bernie Madoff may be sitting in prison, but his story could soon get the Hollywood treatment. Robert De Niro who has made a career playing a variety of criminals, is set to star as the Ponzi schemer in a biopic. But the project is still in the early stages. I'm sure the first of many movies about Madoff.
COOPER: I'm sure it will be interesting. Isha, thanks.
Coming up, John Lennon's rotten molar sells for more than $31,000 at auction. Sounds made up, but it's the tooth. "The Ridiculist" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for "The Ridiculist." Tonight, we're adding the $31,000 tooth that came straight from John Lennon's mouth probably. I say probably because the tooth is apparently too fragile to confirm it through DNA testing.
But Lennon reportedly gave it to his housekeeper in the 1960s, more on that in a moment. On Friday we told you the tooth was going up for auction and it was suspected to fetch -- fetch is a fancy auction term for how much somebody is willing to pay for a rotten old molar about $16,000.
Well, lo and behold, the auction happened over the weekend and tooth be told, it went for almost double that, $31,200. Should I have said tooth be told or tooth be sold? I couldn't really decide.
Anyway, here's more of the back story on this cavity-ridden piece of music history. As I said, Lennon reportedly gave it to his housekeeper after a dentist had to twist and shout it out back in the '60s.
The housekeeper's son said Lennon told her she could throw it away or give it to her daughter who's a huge Beatles fan. Apparently, it's been in the family ever since. I was happy to read that this wasn't the only gift that Lennon gave his housekeeper and her family.
There were other things like jewelry, jackets and other stuff that didn't come out of his face. The housekeeper is now 90 years old. Her son said the time was right to sell the tooth rather than take the risk of getting it lost. You got to hand it to her, 40 years hanging on to someone else's decade tooth. That's quite a run.
Perhaps she should get a commemorative plaque, thank you. You're probably wondering who in the world paid more than $31,000 for the tooth? Apparently, the winning bid was from a dentist in Canada. He'll hang the tooth in his dental office so all his patients can have their own brush with fame.
Come to think of it, it would also be a pretty graphic reminder to floss. Lennon's work was always multilayered like that. You may be thinking that $31,000 is a lot of money and it is, but think about it.
This is a tooth that John Lennon actually kookookachooed with. A tooth that lived in the mouth that sang Norwegian Wood. A lock of Presley's hair sold for more than $18,000 just a few years ago. A lock of Justin Bieber's hair more than $40,000 on eBay.
So I guess that means in the world of biologically based music memorabilia Bieber hair costs more than Beatle tooth, strange days indeed.
That's it for us. We'll see you again at 10:00 p.m. tonight. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN" starts now.
