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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Conrad Murray Found Guilty; New Herman Cain Accuser
Aired November 07, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone, 10:00 p.m. here on the East Coast.
And we begin with "Crime & Punishment" and the verdict that everyone is talking about tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter, in violation of Penal Code Section 192 Subsection B, alleged victim, Michael Joseph Jackson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As you just saw, Dr. Murray showing no emotion as the verdict was read, but outside the courthouse Jackson fans erupted. Throughout the trial Jackson supporters have gathered in front of the building offering words of encouragement to Jackson's family. Today LaToya Jackson thanked them. Her joy at the verdict unmistakable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LATOYA JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S SISTER: Michael loves everybody out here. I love -- we all love them. And guess what? He was in that courtroom, and that's why victory was served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jermaine Jackson also spoke briefly as he left the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S BROTHER: Justice was served, yes. It wasn't enough time, though.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What would you say for Michael?
J. JACKSON: Michael's with us. Michael's with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jackson's mother and father, Joe and Katherine, were cheered as they made their way through the crowd. This is the verdict the Jacksons were hoping for. But prosecutor David Walgren said that many people must have been thinking for the Jacksons today, the verdict -- it isn't an end to the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WALGREN, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Our sympathies go out to the Jackson family at this time for their loss that they have suffered. Not a pop icon, but a son and brother, and I think that's the most important to keep in mind today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A son and a brother and also, of course, a father to Prince, and Paris and Blanket. During the trial the prosecution repeatedly reminded the jury that the three kids are now orphans. A loss that can't be measured. We all saw their pain at Jackson's memorial service and we can't forget the moment when Paris Jackson spoke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARIS JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S DAUGHTER: I just want to say --
JANET JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S SISTER: Speak up.
P. JACKSON: Ever since I was born, Daddy has been the best father you can ever imagine. And I just wanted to say I love him. So much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Today's verdict came two years, four months and 13 days after Michael Jackson died. And just ahead tonight, what comes next? How much prison time is Dr. Murray likely to serve? And will he lose his medical license.
But first here's Randi Kaye on how we got to this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The desperate 911 call comes from inside Michael Jackson's rented Beverly Hills mansion. It is just before 12:30 p.m., June 25, 2009, in Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's pumping, he's pumping his chest, but he's not responding to anything, sir.
KAYE: The king of pop's heart had stopped, he is unconscious. His personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, who can be heard in the background on the call made by Jackson's security guard, is attempting CPR.
911 OPERATOR: Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor's been the only one here.
911 OPERATOR: OK. So the doctor seen what happened? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doctor, did you see what happened, sir? Just, sir, if you can please --
911 OPERATOR: We're on our way.
KAYE: As the emergency unfolds, news spreads.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're getting some breaking news coming into "THE SITUATION ROOM" right now from -- about Michael Jackson, the king of pop.
KAYE: His family is at his hospital bedside.
JERMAINE JACKSON: My brother, the legendary king of pop, Michael Jackson, passed away on Thursday, June 25, 2009 at 2:26 p.m.
KAYE: Sorrow, shock and so many unanswered questions. Immediately, the investigation begins to focus on Jackson's physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, a cardiologist hired to care for the pop star as he prepared for the upcoming concert tour.
June 26, the day after Jackson died, police announced they impounded Dr. Murray's car from the singer's mansion. In search of prescription medications that could be -- quote -- "pertinent to the investigation."
Days later, on June 30, a registered nurse tells CNN Jackson had insomnia and had asked her for Diprivan, a very powerful sedative, also known as propofol.
CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FORMER NURSE: And I said, Michael, if you take that medicine, you might not wake up.
KAYE: On August 18, Dr. Murray makes his first public comments. He releases this video online.
DR. CONRAD MURRAY, DEFENDANT: I have done all I could do. I told the truth and I have faith the truth will prevail.
KAYE: August 24. The L.A. County coroner concludes Jackson died of an overdose of propofol. According to an affidavit, Dr. Murray told detectives he'd been treating Jackson for insomnia for weeks. Murray says he tried other drugs, but the pop star demanded propofol to help him sleep. So at 10:40 a.m., the day he died, he gave him 25 milligrams of it. 911 was called almost two hours later.
COOPER: And what about Murray's actions the day Jackson collapsed? Have you learned anything more about where he was actually when the singer stopped breathing?
KAYE (on camera): He said he finally went to sleep, according to this affidavit, he watched him for about 10 minutes, and then he left the room to use the bathroom. He said he was gone for about two minutes maximum, according to the documents. And when he came back, Michael Jackson wasn't breathing. (voice-over): On February 8, 2010, Dr. Conrad Murray is officially charged with involuntary manslaughter. He surrenders to authorities, pleads not guilty, and is released on $75,000 bail.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Today Dr. Murray's request for bail was denied. He left the courtroom in handcuffs, a convicted felon, to await sentencing on November 29. And here's what the judge said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE MICHAEL PASTOR, LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT: Public protection as far as I'm concerned dictates that the defendant be remanded without bail in view of the fact that Dr. Murray has been convicted of a crime involving homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Randi Kaye joins me now along with Marcia Clark, former Los Angeles deputy district attorney and author of "Guilt by Association." Also with us criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, and chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Jeff, was this the right verdict?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Seemed that way to me. I was skeptical of this case when it was brought. I thought given Michael Jackson's history of addiction, given all the possible involvements in his ill health, blaming Conrad Murray seemed unfair.
But I thought the prosecution did an excellent job. They laid out a very straightforward case. And they showed that this was not just, you know, arguably bad medicine. This was really deep, deep incompetence. But they also didn't charge him with too much. They didn't charge him with murder. They charged him with a fairly -- you know, a minor felony but still a felony and they got the verdict they deserved.
COOPER: Randi, you were in the court when the verdict was read. Conrad Murray was placed in handcuffs. I know there was a lot that you saw and heard that the fixed TV camera didn't capture. What -- what struck you?
KAYE: Well, if you're watching at home, you probably didn't see Katherine Jackson, Michael Jackson's mother, break down in tears as soon as that verdict was read. She was comforted by her two sons, Jermaine Jackson and Randy Jackson. LaToya Jackson, Michael Jackson's sister, let out a shriek even though we were all warned not to make any type of reaction to the verdict.
But on the other side of the courtroom, Anderson, was Conrad Murray and his family and friends. Conrad Murray, when that verdict was read, Anderson, he did not react at all. He sat there stone faced just staring at the bench and the judge. But what was interesting was -- then the next thing the judge did was dismiss the jury and he sentenced Conrad Murray -- told him to go straight to jail even though the defense has said, you know, he's not a flight risk, keep him here. But the judge said that you know what? He's now a convicted felon. This was a homicide even though it was a lower class of a felony. It still was a homicide.
He said he could be a danger to the public. And he said he will stay in jail until his sentencing on November 29. But the most bizarre moment as you said was when he was handcuffed. The court proceeding wasn't even done yet and the deputies all went around and started handcuffing him, Anderson, as he was still sitting in his chair. And even the judge said, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, let's give him a second here, let's wait a minute.
And as he left, his mother was in the courtroom, his daughter was in the courtroom, he gave them a nod and his girlfriend was in the courtroom as well, Nicole Alvarez, who testified in this trial, and she whispered to him, I love you.
COOPER: Mark Geragos, were you surprised at the verdict?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I actually thought if it was going to be the best the defense could hope for was a hung. And when they went past Friday afternoon, I thought maybe they have a hung. When it came back this morning with a verdict, I thought it would be guilt. I think the defense team thought it would be guilty. That's one of the reasons I think he was sitting there stone faced.
He was warned, I'm sure, that look, it's guilty if they came back today because it was never going to be a not guilty verdict. And they warned him that he was going to be remanded, meaning put into custody immediately.
COOPER: Yes, let's talk about that. I mean a lot of people are talking about the fact that Murray's immediately being sent to jail where he waits sentencing. The judge saying he's basically a threat to society. Do you agree with that?
GERAGOS: Well, do I agree with that? I -- you know, I'm not going to argue with Judge Pastor. I will tell you, however, that it's fully expected and this telegraphs, by the way, Anderson, that Judge Pastor is going to max him out, give him four years. I don't think there's any question about it. He's not going to get probation.
COOPER: Marcia Clark, do you agree with that?
MARCIA CLARK, FORMER LOS ANGELES DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I think it's very likely Mark is right. How much time he actually winds up doing, Anderson, that's a different story.
And first of all, I think that he had to remand him. I don't think any judge wants to be the guy that lets Conrad Murray skip out and wind up in Guam somewhere. So I just think it was a pretty much a foregone conclusion. He was going to get no bail. But how much that time he actually does given the problem we have with jail overcrowding here in California, very debatable. Even the possibility of house arrest is a very strong one, given our new sentencing laws.
COOPER: So even if he's given the maximum of four years, he could still just end up getting house arrest or probation? Not house arrest. Probation.
CLARK: It's possible. It's very -- yes, I know what you're saying and it's possible. Anything is possible right now. We have what we call new alignment loss. I think Steve Cooley referred to that today during a press conference, and it's true. They are now saving the beds for the most violent and dangerous criminals. And Conrad Murray does not qualify in that class of criminal and so we'll likely get something very much shorter than four years in state prison.
TOOBIN: You said house arrest. He could get house arrest.
COOPER: Oh, really?
TOOBIN: I mean, they are --
CLARK: He could.
TOOBIN: People who are nonviolent criminals are doing their time at home. I mean Lindsay Lohan, obviously, it's a much less serious crime. She did most of her time at home. He will probably never go to state prison, the big prisons, but he will do his time in a local jail.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Right, a local jail and perhaps at home.
COOPER: Sanjay, so much of this case --
GERAGOS: Yes, it's not --
COOPER: Go ahead, Mark.
GERAGOS: I was just going to say it's not a state -- under the new realignment it's not a state prison felony. The most he's ever going to do is county jail, and then it's up to the sheriff. It's not going to be up to the judge. It's going to be up to the sheriff as to whether or not he's going to be released on electronic monitor.
COOPER: Sanjay, so much of this case hinged on medical evidence.
CLARK: Correct.
COOPER: Different kind of drugs, different amounts, and ways of administering them. I mean was this in the end a slam dunk case?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think it was a slam dunk case, but I think it was a pretty strong one for sure. I mean, one thing I thought the defense was going to start to try to make the case for at some point was that this wasn't as unusual as it sounded. This idea of someone using propofol, a doctor using propofol outside a clinical setting inside someone's home. You and I have talked about this, Anderson. It struck me as very bizarre. I think it struck a lot of people in the medical community as very strange, something they'd never heard of.
And I kept thinking they're going to drag out a witness, an expert who's going to say, you know what, actually, not that unusual. That never happened. It was bizarre then, it remains bizarre now. And I think regardless of this -- the whole discussion about who in fact administered the medication, the propofol in the end, just the sheer negligence of using this medication at home without monitoring equipment without resuscitation equipment seemed to be very convincing.
COOPER: I want our panel to stay with us. A lot more to talk about. We're going take a quick break. We're on Facebook. Follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I will be tweeting tonight.
Also ahead on the program tonight, "Raw Politics": a stunning new allegation facing Herman Cain -- a fourth woman now coming forward publicly describing what he allegedly did to her 14 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON BIALEK, ACCUSES HERMAN CAIN OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT: I was very, very surprised and very shocked.
I said: "What are you doing? You know I have a boyfriend. This isn't what I came here for."
Mr. Cain said, "You want a job, right?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Let's also check with Isha Sesay -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson.
A sex abuse scandal rocks Penn State University. A former football coach accused of abusing young boys after earning their trust. And two university officials accused of knowing about the allegation years ago have stepped down and are facing criminal charges, too.
That and much more when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" tonight: Dr. Conrad Murray, now a convicted felon, found guilty today of involuntary manslaughter, left the court in handcuffs. His trial made propofol, the anesthetic that killed Michael Jackson, a household word. It's a familiar drug certainly in hospitals.
Chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta took us into an operating room to show us just how fast it works. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: OK. So the propofol --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to start infusing this. You're going to get a little sleepy, Vincent, OK? Give me some good, deep breaths.
GUPTA: Watch this go -- and take a look at his eyes, how quickly he's --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep breath, Vincent. Doing great. May feel a little burning. OK?
GUPTA: Ten, nine --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deep breath.
GUPTA: -- eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's amazing how quick it work. Sanjay joins me now with the rest of our panel, Randi Kaye, Mark Geragos, Marcia Clark, and Jeffrey Toobin.
So, Sanjay, the DA said the verdict should send a powerful message to doctors particularly in Hollywood who may be tempted to play the role, in his words, of Dr. Feelgood. Do you agree with that? And how big a problem you think that is still?
GUPTA: I think there's going to be a couple of messages sent, but I will preface by saying that this -- this is a very unusual situation, a bizarre one. It's not one of these situations where you say this is an indicator of much more rampant behavior like this. I don't -- you know, I would venture a guess that this -- what you have seen, you know, sort of unfold here is something that, you know, is very hard to say it happens anywhere else.
So I don't know that that message regarding propofol specifically will be sent. I think two things -- one is propofol is not a controlled substance, Anderson. I think that that is surprising to a lot of people. But it's not, in part because I don't think people imagined it could be abused in this manner.
And I do think to some extent these doctors who are, quote- unquote, "the Hollywood doctors," the concierge doctors, who are taking care of just one or two patients, they may receive a message from all this. To be very careful in how they're prescribing drug habits and how they may be influenced by their patients to do things like this.
COOPER: I know there's been some confusion, Sanjay, about the status of Murray's license. If he's behind bars, you know, it's not the most pressing issue, but if and when he's released, this really comes back to the forefront. And what do you know? GUPTA: Yes. This is actually pretty interesting. And I think common sense will tell you that he's going to lose his medical license in the four states in which he has had medical licenses. But one thing that's very clear -- and we actually called the California Medical Board specifically about this this afternoon. And they say it is still ultimately up to the state medical board. And four states are California, Nevada, Texas and Hawaii.
They will individually decide about the status of his medical license. As you say, when he's in jail, it's obviously a moot point, but afterwards they will decide that as well. And even during this trial, California did suspend his license, in Hawaii it expired, but in Texas and Nevada, he still had a medical license, albeit without the ability to prescribe medications.
COOPER: Marcia, I want to play something that the DA said during closing arguments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALGREN: Michael Jackson trusted Conrad Murray. He trusted him with his life. He paid with his life. The evidence in this case is overwhelming. The evidence in this case is abundantly clear that Conrad Murray acted with criminal negligence. That Conrad Murray caused the death of Michael Jackson. That Conrad Murray left Prince, Paris and Blanket without a father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Marcia, how big a win is this for the DA's office? And how complex a case was it?
CLARK: Well, at the end of the day, what was interesting, Anderson, is that was actually a very simple case. What I thought would be an extremely complex medical case that would leave a lot of jurors in the -- in the dust actually turned out to be a very simple matter of, hey, nobody gives propofol in a bedroom without a crash cart, without proper monitoring, and certainly nobody who administers propofol leaves the patient alone in the room.
And they were able to prove both of those things, making it so easy for a jury to follow along and to understand. And it's a big win. It's an important win because it is certainly a high profile case. It sends an important message about the care doctors should be taking with their patients and about asserting themselves in terms of not buying into things that a celebrity wants just to keep that celebrity as a patient.
That said, to take it any farther than that, I don't know. This was not a case with a celebrity defendant. This was a case with a celebrity victim. And to the extent that a trial is a popularity contest, that popularity resided very completely on the side of the prosecution. Not only that, but the prosecution had an overwhelming case that was really true what he said, it was, a case of abundant evidence, and the defense had absolutely no cards to play. And it really wound up being very simple. COOPER: Mark, do you think there are any ground for an appeal here for Dr. Murray?
GERAGOS: Well, there's grounds for appeal on some of the pretrial evidentiary rulings. When Judge Pastor excluded a lot of the things that the defense wanted to do. The problem is in the Court of Appeal is they're going to say, oh, even if you made an error, it's a harmless error and the evidence was overwhelming anyways. So I certainly if I were him and advising him, would not be telling him to get ready to pack your things, you're going to be sprung from the county jail any time soon.
COOPER: Randi, you were in the court for a lot of this. What do you think was some of the key evidence in court that really sealed his fate?
KAYE: Well, I think, Anderson, sitting in that courtroom, you could really tell what the jury reacted to. And I think one of the things was, was that the defense had always said that Conrad Murray was trying to wean Michael Jackson off this propofol. Yet the state showed evidence that he had bought from a pharmacy four gallons of propofol to bring into that home and kept bringing it into the home to Michael Jackson. So they didn't buy the idea, clearly, that he was trying to wean him off.
Another piece of evidence were his cell phone records from the morning that Michael Jackson collapsed and stopped breathing. They said that he had abandoned his patient and sure enough those records show that he was texting and he was on his cell phone making and receiving calls that day.
And I think the last thing is, is that the state had said, that you know what, no matter what, even if Michael Jackson did give himself that fatal dose which is what the defense had said without realizing it would kill him, the state hammered home, it was Conrad Murray who brought that propofol into the home and that definitely struck a nerve with the jury.
COOPER: Jeff, I think a lot of people were surprised by the idea that, OK, even if he gets four years he might just end up being on probation. How common -- I mean is that in other states as well?
TOOBIN: Well --
COOPER: How big an overcrowding?
TOOBIN: California is in a unique situation at this point because of the fiscal crisis. They are really cleaning out their prisons of nonviolent offenders. They have had an enormous increase in their population -- prison population. It's shrinking -- it's shrinking there more than in any other state, but it is fairly common for people who are sentenced to -- who are convicted of something less than major violent crimes, to do a little bit of time, although that's less true in federal court.
White-collar criminals these days they do a lot of time. Bernie Madoff is doing 150 years. Not many people are doing 150 years but a lot of people in federal court are doing a lot of time. COOPER: Jeff, Sanjay, Randi, Marcia, and Mark, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Later tonight on the program, a special investigation into the final days and hours of Michael Jackson's life, including some heart- wrenching testimony from the last people to see him alive. Michael Jackson, the final days, is ahead at 11: 00 Eastern tonight.
Up next "Raw Politics." Another woman stepping forward with allegations of inappropriate sexual behavior by Herman Cain. I don't know if you saw the press conference that was carried live today on CNN. He is denying the claims. We'll tell you what she had to say at that news conference today.
Also ahead, amazing video caught by storm chasers in Oklahoma. We'll have the latest on the storms and the scandal right now at Penn State over allegations against a football coach.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Coming up, a new allegation against Herman Cain. A woman says Cain made unwanted sexual advance toward her in 1997. She had a news conference today, told her side of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIALEK: I told my boyfriend Mr. Cain had been very sexually inappropriate with me. And shortly thereafter I told another friend of mine who has been a mentor the same thing. I didn't tell them the details because, quite frankly, I was very embarrassed at -- that Mr. Cain had been sexually inappropriate to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can hear her specific allegations and what the Cain campaign has to say about it coming up tonight.
First, Isha is back with a "360 Bulletin."
SESAY: Anderson, in Syria, opposition groups are asking for international help. A warning, the images you are about to see are graphic.
The opposition groups are asking the Arab League and the U.N. to help protect civilians in the western city of Homs. The opposition said eight people were killed there today and at least 16 yesterday.
In Greece, a replacement for Prime Minister George Papandreou will be announced Tuesday. Yesterday Papandreou agreed to step aside as long as a European bailout plan is approved. New elections will take place after that bailout is put in place.
Storm chasers in Oklahoma captured this amazing video of a tornado in Tipton, in southwestern part of the state. Well, much of the area is under a tornado warning or watch tonight, there have been reports of minor damage.
And in New York, a man using a rope and harness dangles from the Tappan Zee Bridge for three hours today before police lowered him into the Hudson River and took him into custody. The man was fired from a county government job several years ago and held a sign protesting local officials.
COOPER: That's strange.
SESAY: Yes. Yes. And speaking of strange, how did you say my name at the top of the show?
COOPER: I know. I'm sorry. I don't know what happened. I had some sort of a brain freeze. It's...
SESAY: I felt like actually -- it was like Destiny's Child. Say my name again...
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: I know. You were very kind to just let it go at the time. Now you bring it back later, after the fact.
SESAY: Until -- until now. Yes, well, you know.
COOPER: Shall we proceed with the show?
SESAY: OK. Go ahead.
COOPER: Isha Shekary (ph). We found this on YouTube, a dog and a police horse making friends in New York. The person who posted this saw the scene playing out on the walk back to the office from lunch. Kind of want the horse to just pick up the dog, but no. Oh.
It's not the first time -- wait, oh. Uh-oh.
SESAY: It can get ugly.
COOPER: I like how the dog twists around.
SESAY: He's got the moves.
COOPER: Oh, that's so sweet.
That kid is like, all right, enough of the dog. I want some time. We've seen this kind of canine-equine interaction on the streets of New York City before. We showed this a few months ago, worth another look. A New York police officer's horse couldn't resist this tasty, tasty dog.
SESAY: You know, I like to think that if we came back in another life, I'd be the dog, you'd -- I'd be the dog, you'd be the horse or would it be the other way around? I'm not sure.
COOPER: I'm not sure.
SESAY: Oh, yes.
COOPER: I always feel bad for the horses on the streets of New York, although they're police horses. These ones are police horses, so that's fine.
SESAY: Yes. And the -- the dog doesn't look too impressed.
COOPER: I actually wanted to be a policeman, a horse policeman when I was a kid. That's one of the many things I wanted to do. It's true. I thought it would be really cool.
SESAY: And you thought it -- why?
COOPER: I don't know. I thought it would be cool. Because I'd get to ride a horse and be a policeman. I thought it would be neat. No?
SESAY: No. But you know, I'll file that away. I have a big vault for all the stuff you say. It's going in the vault.
COOPER: Yes. It's all fascinating.
All right. We'll check back in with Isha Seshay [SIC] later in the program.
SESAY: We'll work on that.
COOPER: Yes.
Still ahead, new accusations facing Herman Cain. Now, this time from a Chicago woman who says Cain groped her and just wants him to, quote, "admit what he did." Hear her story in her own words.
Also ahead, really shocking abuse allegations, sexual abuse allegations against a former Penn State University football coach. His alleged victims were young boys. What's even more incredible, or on top of this, as if that wasn't bad enough, two top university officials are also facing charges, accused of covering up the alleged crimes; knowing about it, and doing nothing about it. New details coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "Raw Politics" tonight, another woman coming forward, claiming she was sexually harassed by Herman Cain. Sharon Bialek is the fourth woman accused -- accusing the GOP presidential candidate of inappropriate behavior. Like the others, she has ties to the National Restaurant Association. But she's the first to speak out on camera.
She dropped a bombshell in a news conference today. She claimed she was groped by Cain after they had dinner together in 1997. At the time Cain was the head of the association. She said she met with him to ask him if he could help her get rehired or find another job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON BIALEK, ACCUSER: He said that he would show me where the National Restaurant Association offices were. He parked the car down the block. I thought that we were going to go into the offices so that he could show me around.
At that time I had on a black pleated skirt, a suit jacket and a blouse. He had on a suit with his shirt -- with his shirt open. But instead of going into the offices, he suddenly reached over, and he put his hand on my leg under my skirt and reached for my genitals. He also grabbed my head and brought it towards his crotch.
I was very, very surprised and very shocked. I said, "What are you doing? You know I have a boyfriend. This isn't what I came here for."
Mr. Cain said, "You want a job, right?"
I asked him to stop, and he did. I asked him to take me back to my hotel, which he did, right away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Sharon Bialek in her own words.
The Cain campaign denies the unwanted sexual advance. In a statement, it says, "All allegations of harassment against Mr. Cain are completely false. Mr. Cain has never harassed anyone. Fortunately, the American people will not allow Mr. Cain's bold 9-9-9 plan, clear foreign policy vision, and plans for energy independence to be overshadowed by these bogus attacks."
New poll numbers show the allegations aren't hurting Cain's campaign. Let's talk it over with Ari Fleischer, former press secretary for George W. Bush, and Democratic strategist James Carville.
So James, the fact is, until today there hadn't been a face or really a voice to go with some of these charges. Now there is. Does that make a difference?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think the whole thing makes a difference, because people are going to say, "Well, this was today. What's going to happen tomorrow or the next day?" And once these things start, it's endless.
And I suspect that he's really -- we're going to see in the next ten days that he's really been hurt in the polls.
I never thought he had a chance to be the Republican nominee. I certainly don't think so after this. Likely (ph) to be less than zero, but whatever it is, he's gone into negative territory now.
COOPER: Ari, I want to read you some of what Bill Bennett had to say in a CNN editorial publishing tonight. He says, and I quote, "If Herman Cain cannot stand up to these charges, if he refuses to, then he should step out of the race. A man big enough to run for president should be big enough to have a full and candid press conference on all of this."
Do you agree with that?
ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, no, I don't think he should give a full and candid press conference on all this. I think people are sick of this.
But I do think what's fundamentally important -- I said before any of this broke -- is that Herman Cain, as much as I like Herman Cain and want an outsider, Herman Cain is not ready to be the president of the United States. I wish he was a governor and had more experience. And if he did, he'd be handling this differently, plus he likely already would have been vetted.
COOPER: Are you saying -- I'm sorry, are you saying that he's not ready, based on his -- the way he's responded to this? Or just based on other stuff?
FLEISCHER: No, I've said all along, I'd said it for months that Herman Cain is not ready to be president, as much as I like him as an outsider. I want somebody who's had gubernatorial experience, somebody who knows how to deal with an unruly legislature. And Herman Cain does not have that experience.
So I think voters are enjoying this flirtation with Herman Cain, and I've been one of those flirtees. But I just don't think Herman Cain at the end of the day was presidential material before any of this news about women broke.
Now what's different about this one and I think for Cain supporters, it's going to start to chip away a number of them. Is you have a face, you have a voice, you have a name, you have a woman on the record.
All the previous three were anonymous, and that makes it very unfair. And Herman Cain was being judged by did he say "excuse me" too loud, was his temper starting to show, is he good at crisis management, none of which I thought were valid issues to measure a president by.
This now, though, is very troubling, because assume he was presidential. People don't want to go through this on the Republican side. They don't want to take a chance that we would have a flawed nominee who'd get made into mincemeat by Democrats and independents in a general election. So it's starting to add up to too much.
COOPER: So Ari, does he then have to address this specific case?
FLEISCHER: Well, I think he's going to address it by just saying none of it's true, it's all made up, it's all fabrication and then try to get back to his central message.
The problem with that is this woman had so many details, specifics -- where they were parked, et cetera. There's enough there that makes it sound like she certainly knows what she's talking about. And it will end up being a "he said, she said," I suspect. But I think the big news conference will be unseemly, ungainly. He's probably just going to deny it.
COOPER: James, I mean, you've, you know, counseled people in this position before. How -- how do you respond to something like this? I mean, can he -- can he get himself out of this?
CARVILLE: I don't think that he can, but again, he doesn't have, like, a campaign. He's not running like somebody would run a campaign, like Bill Clinton ran in '92 or some of the Bush campaigns, other people. So he doesn't have the infrastructure. He doesn't have any experience in dealing with this.
He got into something that he had utterly no business being in. And it's showing. And the idea that he would be the nominee, I think, from the get-go, was absurd. And he started to take himself seriously. And, you know, he's obviously not going to do very well, and this will take a toll now.
But, you know, this happens when people run for president. I mean, any number of people -- you know, I mean, you go through something like this. And, you know, it does show the fissures and, as Ari points out, the certain lack of experience and the lack of being able to deal with this. And I don't think there's a very good explanation.
I'd love for him to have a press conference and, you know, just let it all hang out, as they say, for a couple -- three hours. It would be marvelously entertaining for all of us, but it doesn't have anything to do with his Republicans that will nominate (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
FLEISCHER: ... Anderson, is that some independent reporter really pokes holes in her story and finds out what she said was wrong, it couldn't it be true, it wasn't here, wrong date, doesn't add up. I think absent that happening, this is just going to lead to further erosion for Herman Cain. I hate to say it, but I think that's the fact.
COOPER: I do want to look at these polls for a minute, because all the polls before the press conference do show him tied with Mitt Romney at the top.
If you look at the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll, which was released today, it says -- it shows Cain's unfavorable rating doubled in the past month. At -- I mean, at some point, do primary voters just not care, you know, what was -- that -- that -- you know -- where do you see these numbers going? Does -- as this drip, drip, drip continues, do you see these poll numbers continuing to fall?
FLEISCHER: I do, Anderson. I think what initially happens, especially with conservative Republican primary voters, after a story breaks in the mainstream media, there's a rally-around-the-flag-type effect. And people just push back, saying, "This is the media talking, and I don't like it." And there's a legitimate element to that.
But when you have somebody making a substantive charge on the record about the actual conduct, the sexual -- alleged here sexual assault -- conduct, it really does start to change things. And I think over time, it will start to erode.
COOPER: Ari Fleischer, James Carville. Guys, thanks very much.
James, did you want to say something?
CARVILLE: I just said that only the relevant number that everybody is going to be looking at over the next two to three weeks is Romney's number. If it doesn't move, that signals something kind of fundamental serious flaw with his candidacy. But we'll see. I think that's the big number to look at.
COOPER: All right, James, thanks. And Ari, as well.
We're going to hear more from Cain's accuser when she joins Piers Morgan next on "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT." Piers joins us now -- Piers.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, John [SIC].
Certainly, we have much more tonight on the shocking details of that sexual harassment allegation against Herman Cain. Tonight I'll talk to the only accuser to speak out publicly, Sharon Bialek. She joins me along with her attorney, Gloria Allred, in her first prime- time exclusive.
Plus new details on the conviction of Michael Jackson's doctor. I'll sit down with a member of Conrad Murray's defense team. Another exclusive interview, so a busy night, Anderson. Back to you.
COOPER: I'll look forward to it. Thanks, Piers.
Another Penn State football coach accused of unspeakable acts against young boys. The allegations date back to his days as the team's offensive coordinator. The question is -- a lot of questions tonight. What did legendary head coach Joe Paterno know? Why are two of the school's top administrators now also facing criminal charges in the case? New details on that ahead.
And Amanda Knox's co-defendant speaking out about his life since they were released from an Italian jail. He's opening up about their relationship, as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight a sexual abuse scandal is rocking the Penn State football program. Retired defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was arrested and accused of having sex with young boys. All the alleged victims met him through The Second Mile, the charity he started in 1977 to help troubled kids. The group is now urging any other possible victim to notify police.
The charges are the result of an investigation that began three years ago after one of the boys told his mother of what Sandusky was up to. The grand jury's report details allegations dating back to 1994. That's five years before he retired from the Penn State coaching squad.
At a news conference today, Pennsylvania State Police commissioner questioned why the school didn't do more to bring the case to light sooner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK NOONAN, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE COMMISSIONER: This is not a case about football. It's not a case about universities. It's a case about children who have had their innocence stolen from them and a culture that did nothing to stop it or prevent it from happening to others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It isn't just Sandusky facing criminal charges tonight. Two other school officials are, as well. I spoke to Jason Carroll about the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So Jason, the attorney general laid out the accusations in a 23-page grand jury report which is very graphic at times. What can you tell us about it?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, so many things. It basically lays out eight victims. They're identified as victim No. 1, two, three, four and so on and so on.
And what you notice out of this grand jury report, Anderson, is you see a familiar pattern that prosecutors have laid out, basically saying that Sandusky basically lured these young boys in and then kept them around by showering them with gifts. He would give them shoes. He would invite them to football games. Things like that.
And then once he earned their trust, he would then allegedly sexually assault them in various places, whether it be in the locker room at the football stadium, at his home in the basement or at a school. It was very graphic, very disturbing to read this 23-page report, Anderson.
COOPER: And the age of the kids?
CARROLL: Some as young as possibly 8 years old, Anderson, as old as 14. Taking place over several years. When you read something like that and then you read the graphic nature of how the sexual abuse took place, it's no wonder that one of the police that was investigating said it was one of the most troubling cases he had seen in his 40-year career.
COOPER: What's also stunning are these allegations that two university officials knew what was going on but failed to report it. They've been charged as well, correct? CARROLL: Yes, that's correct. That would be Gary Schultz and Timothy Curley. Both of them out on $75,000 bail, Anderson. They're both charged with perjury. Also charged with failing to report.
And that really gets to the -- to the heart of this issue, because prosecutors are wondering why so many of these officials, school officials, when an allegation came to them, why no one brought the allegation of sexual abuse to police, which, under Pennsylvania state law, is required.
COOPER: It's stunning to me. So you said that there are eight -- eight victims described in the report, but have all the victims been identified? I mean, could there be more?
CARROLL: When you look at this grand jury report, it's very clear that victim No. 2, who was identified as victim No. 2, and then victim No. 8, they still haven't found them, Anderson. They're hoping, by having press conferences and by all the media coverage, maybe some of these young boys who are now actually young adults at this point will see what is happening and come forward.
COOPER: Just a stunning story. We'll continue to follow it, obviously. Jason, thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Following a number of other stories right now. Isha is back again with a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Isha.
SESAY: Anderson, Herman Cain's campaign has just announced that he'll give a press conference tomorrow to respond to new allegations of sexual misconduct. Sharon Bialek made the new allegations today. In a press release, a Cain spokesman says the accusations are false. And, of course, Gloria Allred is a celebrity lawyer who specializes in generating publicity.
Attorney General Eric Holder is set to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee tomorrow about the controversial so-called Fast and Furious program. Excerpts from his planned opening testimony show that Holder plans to say that the concept of the ATF program was flawed and that it never should have happened.
The operation allowed illegal guns to be smuggled into Mexico, guns that later showed up in crime scenes, both there and in the United States.
Amanda Knox's former codefendant is now officially her ex- boyfriend. "The Daily Mail" reports Raffaele Sollecito told Italian TV he still has great affection for Knox, but nothing else.
Warren Buffett taking advantage of Wall Street's worst quarter since the start of the financial crisis. He went bargain hunting, picking up $7 billion in stocks between July and September. He also bought chemical company Lubrizol and a large stake in Bank of America. The total for the shopping spree was nearly $20 billion. And Bernie Madoff could soon get the Hollywood treatment with major star power. Robert De Niro is said to star as the Ponzi schemer in a planned biopic. The project is still in the early stages of development.
Now back to Anderson.
COOPER: Isha, thanks.
Coming up, John Lennon's rotten molar sells for more than $31,000 at auction. It sounds made up, but it's the tooth. "The RidicuList" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for "The RidicuList." And tonight we're adding the $31,000 tooth that came straight from John Lennon's mouth. Probably. I say probably, only because the tooth is apparently too fragile to confirm it through DNA testing. But Lennon reportedly gave it to his housekeeper in the 1960s. More on that in a moment.
On Friday we told you the tooth was going up for auction and that it was expected to fetch -- fetch is a fancy auction talk term for how much someone's willing to pay for a rotten old molar -- about $16,000. Well, lo and behold, the auction happened over the weekend, and tooth be told, it went for almost double that, $31,200. Should I have said "tooth be told" or "tooth be sold"? I couldn't really decide.
Anyway, here's more of the back story on this cavity-ridden piece of music history. As I said, Lennon reportedly gave it to his housekeeper after a dentist had to, you know, "Twist and Shout" it out one day back in the '60s. The housekeeper's son says Lennon told her she could throw it away or give it to her daughter, who was a huge Beatles fan. And apparently, it's been in the family ever since.
I was happy to read that this wasn't the only gift that Lennon gave his housekeeper and her family. There were other things like jewelry, and jackets and other stuff that didn't come out of his face.
The housekeeper is now 90 years old. Her son says the time was right to sell the tooth rather than take the risk of getting it lost. But you've got to hand it to her. Forty years hanging onto someone else's decayed tooth. That's quite a run. Perhaps she should get a commemorative plaque.
(SOUND EFFECT: RIM SHOT)
COOPER: Thank you.
So you're probably wondering who in the world paid more than $31,000 for the tooth. Apparently, the winning bid was from a dentist in Canada, which I suppose is appropriate. He'll probably hang the tooth in his dental office so all his patients can have their own brush with fame. Come to think of it, it would also be a pretty graphic reminder to floss. See, Lennon's work was always multilayered like that. You may be thinking that $31,000 is a lot of money, and it is. But think about it. This is a tooth that John Lennon actually coo-coo-kachooed with. A tooth that lived in the mouth that sang "Norwegian Wood."
And there's some precedent for this sort of thing. A lock of Elvis Presley's hair sold for more than $18,000 just a few years ago. A lock of Justin Bieber's hair, more than $40,000 on eBay. So I guess that means, in the world of biologically-based music memorabilia, Bieber hair costs more than Beatle teeth. Strange days indeed. Strange days indeed.
Hey, that's it for us. Thanks for watching. Up next, Michael Jackson's final days, a special investigation into the final hours of the legendary singer's life and the heart-wrenching testimony from the last people to see him alive.
