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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Source: McConnell Says GOP Doesn't Have Votes to Block Witnesses; Sen. Angus King (I-ME) is Interviewed About the Impeachment Trial; Source: McConnell Says GOP Doesn't Have Votes To Block Witnesses; Trump Lawyer Argues John Bolton Claims Are "Inadmissible"; Trump Team Rests Case As Dems Push For Witness Testimony; Next Step: Senators Have 16 Hours T Ask Written Questions; Trump's Ex-Chief Of Staff John Kelly: "I Believe John Bolton"; Husband Of Helicopter Crash Victim Speaks Out; Shaq Remembers Kobe Bryant. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 28, 2020 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:27]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
With new reporting tonight that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell does not yet have the votes to block impeachment votes for witnesses, we begin tonight, keeping them honest with the question, will Republican senators embrace the responsibility that comes with their sole responsibility to conduct impeachment trials, or will they shrink from it?
Today, as they have throughout the trial, lawyers from the president all but urged them to do this second. And far from taking umbrage, plenty of senators seemed happy to oblige, either echo or amplify those arguments for essentially declining their role as fact finders and truth seekers, which sounds like an opposition to take, because no one benefits from widespread public suspicion. The president was either removed from office or acquitted in a mockery of a trial, or so you might think.
New Quinnipiac polling out today seems to reinforce the idea that people know what a real trial looks like and want to see one. Registered voters, by a 75 to 20 margin say that witnesses should be allowed to testify. Witnesses like fired national security adviser John Bolton, who's upcoming memoir reportedly says the president directly tied military aid to Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.
Remember, just a few days ago, the president's legal team was arguing that the president should be acquitted because --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PURPURA, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Not a single witness testified that the president himself said that there was any connection between any investigations and security assistance, a presidential meeting, or anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: That was Saturday, on Sunday, the Bolton news hit and just like, that the firsthand recollection that the ambassador's testimony could provide and called began transforming into this today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY SEKULOW, OUTSIDE LEGAL COUNSEL FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: You cannot impeach a president on an unsourced allegation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Unsourced he said, while arguing against calling the source himself to talk about the arrangement he reportedly referred to at one point as a drug deal.
Of, course on the same day that Jay Sekulow was saying that, another member of the team, Pat Philbin was saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK PHILBIN, DEPUTY COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT: How are we supposed to get the proof of what is inside the president's head?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: How are we supposed to get the proof of what's inside the presidents head?
Talking to John Bolton under oath is one way, perhaps Mick Mulvaney as well. There are also documents, emails, notes in which some of those same people may have written down exactly what the president said and when. Bolton, for one is known to take detailed notes.
And a four star general who worked with him in the White House, John Kelly, the former chief of staff to the president, just said that he believes Bolton, the president's attorneys today had another reason that Bolton should not be called.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R-IN): You know, the Bolton revelation, which I thought was kind of discussed fairly last night by Dershowitz, that you can't get that to rise to the level of impeachment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Senator Mike Braun, let's call that argument number three. Maybe the president did say, but it doesn't mean he should be impeached over. And it doesn't rise to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor.
Three basic arguments, given by the president's attorneys, now evidence that the presidents linked aid to dirt on Bidens, Bolton's allegations are unsourced, and, well, even if he did lay gate for political dirt, it's not impeachable. There have been other arguments as well. It is too soon to vote on
witnesses. It's too late to call them because the House was supposed to. It will all end up in the course it will take too long.
But at the end of the day, Senator Lindsey Graham may have said it all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Here is where I am add on witnesses. I am ready to make my decision based on the record established in the House. The House chose not to pursue witnesses that were available to them. I don't want to start a precedent of just doing half-assed in the House and expect Senate to fix it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Constitution says the Senate has sole power to try impeachment. They have the way. The will is what seems to be lacking.
Joining us now, one of the president's trial defenders, Alan Dershowitz, who has just written a foreword to a new addition of the Constitution, and Declaration of Independence. He is also, as you know, a professor emeritus at Harvard Law School, where he was once had CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin as a student. Both join us now.
Professor Dershowitz, the argument that you put forward that even if the allegations for Bolton are true, it still doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. How do you come to that conclusion? I mean, it's an interpretation of the law. What is the basis of it?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, TRUMP IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY: Well, the president was charged with abuse of power. Let's assume, hypothetically, and say he was charged with maladministration, which by the way, according to many scholars is the equivalent of abuse of power. Let's assume he was charged with maladministration, and they came forth with lots and lots of witnesses. You would still dismissive, because maladministration is not a high crime and misdemeanor.
How do I know that? The Framers introduced maladministration.
[20:05:03]
James Madison objected to, it saying it was so vague that it would lead to president serving at the pleasure of the Senate. So it was expressly rejected.
And so, if they impeached him on the ground that was expressly rejected, then, obviously, nothing that anybody says as a witness would rise to the level of the impeachable offense. You have to look at the charge.
And the same thing is truth abuse of power, which is very much like maladministration.
So, that's how I get to my conclusion. I make it purely constitutional argument based on the history of the Constitutional Convention.
What the scholars said back then, remember that Dean Dwight of the Columbia Law School said the weight of authority, meaning the professors, judges, back in 1867, the weight of authority is in favor of requiring a crime. That can't be an argument that is simply dismissed. If the weight of authority, much closer in time to when the Constitution was adopted, favored that interpretation.
COOPER: Jeff, what do you make of that argument?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I mean, Alan, you are equating maladministration with the abuse of power. You are the only scholar who does that.
DERSHOWITZ: Again, you're wrong.
TOOBIN: I'm not wrong, Alan.
DERSHOWITZ: Let me give you a cite. Today's "New York Times", Professor Nikolas Bowie says that almost exactly. He says that maladministration, abuse of office, abuse of power, read it in "The New York Times".
TOOBIN: I read that article, and let me finish. Let me finish.
DERSHOWITZ: Quote the point, before you say all scholars, please?
TOOBIN: Nikolas Bowie in that article, he says that you are wrong.
DERSHOWITZ: That's right. And that's what makes his argument so much stronger. He thinks I'm wrong and yet he agrees with me that maladministration, abuse of power and abuse of office are essentially the same. I am not quoting him for his conclusion. You can quote him for his conclusion.
I'm quoting him for the point you just made, saying that no scholars think abuse of power is the same as maladministration.
TOOBIN: The best you can do is quote a scholar who thinks you are wrong? That is your best argument?
DERSHOWITZ: I can quote Blackstone. I can quote the history in England, where abuse of power was rejected as a criteria. Maladministration was rejected as a criteria.
TOOBIN: Of course it was.
DERSHOWITZ: What do you mean, of course it was? It was one of the grounds the British use extensively for impeachment.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: It is not the accusation here.
DERSHOWITZ: But abuse of power is not different than maladministration. TOOBIN: Of course, it's different.
DERSHOWITZ: They're both vague, they're upended.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: One at a time.
DERSHOWITZ: Virtually, every American president has been charged with abuse of power.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I want to understand just for a second, Jeff, why is abuse of power an impeachable offense?
TOOBIN: Because impeachment is about what the president can do wrong. It is about abuse of the office of president. This is the difference between the Clinton impeachment and this impeachment. Anybody can lie about sex in the grand jury. Only a president can withhold aid from a congressionally authorized taxpayer money, in return for dirt for his political enemies. That abuse of presidential power is exactly what Alexander Hamilton was talking about in Federalist number 65. That is why there is an enormous consensus that abuse of power is an impeachable offense that only you and the president's lawyers think is not an impeachable offense.
DERSHOWITZ: Let me make a categorical statement. If Hillary Clinton were under impeachment today for abuse of power, virtually all of the scholars that say abuse of power is in impeachable offense would be on the other side. They do not pass the shoe on the other foot test.
TOOBIN: How do you know?
DERSHOWITZ: Because I know these people.
TOOBIN: You know every law professor?
DERSHOWITZ: I know many of them. I am absolutely certain, and I want you to look me in the eye and tell me you think that Larry Tribe would support the impeachment of Hillary Clinton on impeachment of power? No way.
TOOBIN: Alan, Larry Tribe is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the constitution and Donald Trump. And whether it is an impeachable offense to take taxpayer money and say --
DERSHOWITZ: No, that's not what we are talking about.
TOOBIN: That is what impeachment is.
DERSHOWITZ: We are talking about whether abuse of power is a constitutionally permissible criteria. That is the charge against, him abuse of power. That would be like if he was charged with, quote, dishonesty.
TOOBIN: No, it's not.
DERSHOWITZ: And then there were list of dishonesty offenses.
COOPER: Professor Dershowitz, do you think he abused his power?
DERSHOWITZ: I don't think we get to that issue. I don't we get to the issue of whether he abused his power.
Do I think George Washington abused his power? I gave a list on the floor of the Senate --
(CROSSTALK)
DERSHOWITZ: I gave a list on the floor of the Senate of I think 30 presidents who have been accused of abuse of power. Not a single one of them was ever impeached, which shows how broad and vague it was, why Madison would have rejected it.
[20:10:05]
And why it's so dangerous to give Congress the weapon of abuse of power to use in a partisan way, selectively, against presidents when the Congress is controlled by one party and the presidency by another party.
That is the great danger that I am there to try and prevent. I was not there to defend a particular individual. I was there because I love our country and love our Constitution.
So, I want to protect it from partisan misuse and weaponization that can be used next time against the Democratic president when there is a Republican majority in the House of Representatives.
COOPER: "The Times" article just for the people at home that you are referring to, I think the title was like, don't be confused by Trump's defense --
DERSHOWITZ: That's what makes my point so strong. Bowie is completely against my view, but in the article, in passing, he says that the abuse of power criteria is very similar to abuse of office, abuse of power, and maladministration.
So, when a person who is against me makes a point in my favor, that strengthens the credibility of my argument.
TOOBIN: No, it doesn't. It just says you're wrong. He says that you are wrong. I don't understand how you can possibly cite him in your convenience (ph).
DERSHOWITZ: You don't understand simple logic. When there is someone on one side who's making an argument against you, and he concedes something which is critical, that concession gets more strength and more power, because it came not from an advocate, on my side, but from somebody against me. That is a simple point of logic, Jeffrey, that you would completely agree with if the shoe were on the other foot. TOOBIN: But, Alan, the whole point of the article is to say that you
are wrong what, what difference does it make about what -- about what else he says? He says you are wrong. He is the only scholar you have ever cited who agrees with you.
DERSHOWITZ: First of, all that's not true. Let me tell, you he also says in the article that he agrees with me that a crime is required, where he disagrees with me, he says abuse of power is a crime. He is wrong about that. He can't cite a single statute about that.
COOPER: OK. Professor Dershowitz --
DERSHOWITZ: He says there is no such thing in common law crime in the United States today.
COOPER: I just want to quickly get to --
DERSHOWITZ: Sure.
COOPER: You were at the White House today for the president's announcement about the Mideast peace plan. There's a lot of people are saying that it can't be a viable plan without bringing Palestinians to the table. What do you say about that?
DERSHOWITZ: Of course, the goal is to bring the Palestinians to the table to the Saudis, the Emirates. There were representatives of three Arab countries there today. It is a great plan. It gives a power -- look, I have been involved in this peace process since 1967 when I helped Justice Goldberg draft two for two at the U.N.
This is the best peace plan, A, for the Palestinians, B, for the Israelis, and C, for the region. The Palestinians should at least come to the table. Think about, it they have now had three or four years. There is a peace plan on the table.
Let them consider it seriously. Let them come to the negotiating table. I'm very proud that I have played a small role in helping construct this peace plan. The credit, of course, goes to the people in the administration that did it. But they called me for advice and consultation.
That's how I first met the Trump people, over the peace plan. And that's -- I'm so happy I was there today.
TOOBIN: Alan, I want to ask you about something that went on at the meeting. As you know, a couple days ago, Secretary of State Pompeo berated a National Public Radio reporter for asking appropriate journalistic questions. And then, yesterday, he threw National Public Radio off his plane for his next trip.
That came up in the president's comments. And watch the video carefully, because you're in it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was very impressed with Mike.
(LAUGHTER)
I that reporter could not have done too good of a job on you yesterday, right?
(LAUGHTER)
I think you did a good job on her actually. That's good. Thank you, Mike.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TOOBIN: Why are you patting Mike Pompeo on the back?
DERSHOWITZ: Because I like Mike Pompeo's views on the Middle East. I thoroughly disapprove of the way he is reportedly treating reporters. I don't think reporters should be treated that way, in any way. And I don't think president should say that it's a good thing to threat a reporter that --
TOOBIN: But that was just --
DERSHOWITZ: We are all tempted to do that, but I like Mike Pompeo's views on the Middle East, and that's what I'm a supporter.
TOOBIN: But you patted him on the back. You patted him on the back when the president was praising him for attacking the reporter.
DERSHOWITZ: I think you are reading too much into that. I had patted him on the back a dozen times when we talked about the Middle East. So, that's what my pat was intended to encourage.
TOOBIN: At that just -- in that precise moment.
DERSHOWITZ: You know, if he's being attacked and he's being criticized, I want to show my support, because he's a great secretary of state, and he's done great things to the peace process in the Middle East.
And if he can help bring about peace in the Middle East, I'll forgive him, his rudeness towards a reporter.
COOPER: Alan Dershowitz, I appreciate your time. Jeff Toobin as well.
We'll see Jeff a little shortly as our impeachment trial coverage continues.
Coming up next, more on the vote count, and calling John Bolton, perhaps others has been a back and forth all day.
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We'll also speak to one of the jurors, Senator Angus King of Maine.
Also tonight, my conversation with the husband of Christina Mauser, who died in the helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant, and his daughter, as well as seven other people onboard that helicopter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: More now on the breaking news we touched on at the top, the question of impeachment trial witnesses and the state of the vote count, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. According to a source of the meeting late today, telling his members that the votes were not yet there to block witness testimony.
However, other Senate Republican source tells us that leadership came away from the meeting more confident that they would be able to defeat the witness vote.
Try to get a sense of the state of play, I spoke just before airtime with Senator Angus King, independent of Maine. As you know, he caucuses with Democrats, and, of course, he shares a constituency with Maine's other senator, Republican Susan Collins, who is very much a lawmaker on the spot tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Senator King, yesterday you said you thought there would be five to ten Republicans who would vote for witnesses and documents.
[20:20:06]
I know you talked to Dana Bash today and said it would be a very tight vote. What changed?
SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): I just, you know, was talking to some of my colleagues last night and I just got the feeling that the Republican leader was really putting the pressure on. Although, it now looks like there may be enough votes. I don't know how many there will be.
Originally, I was being optimistic, simply because I thought it was so obvious. I don't know how you vote not to hear from somebody who has --appears to have evidence about the central issue in the case. And I couldn't believe anybody would vote against those -- hearing at least John Bolton. I'm getting all sorts of conflicting signals tonight, but I thought it was going to be a fairly straightforward, then the signals that I was hearing, the sort of mood was, no, we're not going to let any witnesses in.
I think we're just going to have to wait and see. It's going to be on Friday, Anderson. And I think it -- you know, it's either be a very close vote, or I think it will be five or ten. We'll have to wait and see.
COOPER: You think you could still be as many as five or ten? Because I think four is what's needed.
KING: Four is what's needed. I mean, my thinking is -- and I don't want to be a prognosticator here, but my thinking is that once they get to for, I think some people will say, OK, I don't want to explain to my constituents why I didn't want to hear from John Bolton. COOPER: The idea from Senator James Lankford to allow senators to
read ambassador Bolton's manuscript before making the decision on witnesses, is that something you would agree to?
KING: I like James Lankford. I think he is a very creative guy. I just think that's necessary. I have been saying, before any of the revelations of last weekend, that we should hear from Bolton. He is the guy that knows. Here is what this case is all about.
Remember, Anderson, in the Nixon impeachment, it was about what did the president know, and when did he know it? In this case, it is what did the president do and why did he do it? That is why Bolton is so relevant. He can talk to the question of, what was the president's motivation and doing this?
COOPER: I mean, Bolton was sort of giving a boost, despite there's now obviously an onslaught of folks on Fox News against him, his former colleagues over there and elsewhere against him, but former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly says if Bolton says in a book the president told him Ukraine aid was conditioned on an investigation, that Kelly would believe Bolton. I'm wondering if those comments hold any weight with your Republican colleagues? Have you heard anyone talk about that?
KING: I have not. You're going to have to ask them.
I mean, Bolton is a controversial character, as you know. But I've never -- I've heard people criticize his policy views. I have myself. But I've never heard anyone question whether he was straightforward and honest.
And, you know, part of this process is you attack the credibility of the witness. But I think we're just going to have to hear from him. Now, one way to rebut this would be for the president, himself, to sit down for an under oath televised deposition, as President Clinton did 20 years ago. But, right now -- and, by the way, I don't want to practice law too much right here. I think the president waved the executive privilege argument last night when he said Bolton is lying.
Once the president starts talking about that conversation, then the conversation is available to be discussed. So, we'll have to see how that goes regarding John Bolton's credibility. That's a question, of course. But also, he was also in the room where it happened. I think that's the name of his book.
COOPER: And just finally, the question portion of the trial starts tomorrow. I'm wondering --
KING: Right.
COOPER: -- have you submitted questions for that? Do you know how it will work, or what you are interested in?
KING: I can give you an outline of how it will work. I have submitted questions. As I understand it, it is 16 hours. It will be eight hours tomorrow, eight the next day. And the two sides will alternate. The chief justice said that he was admonishing the lawyers. By the
way, the questions are through the chief justice to the House managers or White House lawyers. They are not to each other. This isn't a debate.
And we don't even get to ask the questions. The deal would be, the chief justice says Senator King has a question to put to the House managers. The page will take the question up, he will read, it and it will alternate back and forth. And that's how I understand the process will unfold.
COOPER: Do you want to tell us what you're going to ask?
KING: No.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: I didn't think he would.
KING: It's your job to ask, and I don't have to answer.
COOPER: That is certainly the case.
Senator King, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
KING: Thank you, Anderson.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: News ahead, as well as our preview of the next phase of the trial, before any votes on witnesses, our political legal team is standing by.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[25:28:59]
COOPER: The stage is set for senators to began asking impeachment questions tomorrow afternoon. As we've also been reporting, the stage is not set on witnesses.
Joining us is CNN political analyst, Carl Bernstein, CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is back, also with us, "USA Today" columnist and senior political analyst, Kirsten Powers, and former George W. Bush aide and CNN political commentator, Scott Jennings.
Kirsten, I mean, this report that Mitch McConnell told his caucus he doesn't have the votes. You heard Angus King thinking maybe -- it seems like the pendulum for him has swung both ways. He thinks maybe now they do have the voters.
Do you see this -- I mean, how do you see this playing out?
KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN SENIOR POLTICIAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, obviously, we don't know what's going to happen, but it does seem like the John Bolton news has shifted things a little bit. And I think before when the witnesses were people who did not hear directly from the president, so that could be dismissed as secondhand information.
And also, frankly, were people from the diplomatic corps, which there's no love lost between Republicans in the diplomatic corps. Here, we have John Bolton, who is somebody who has been, you know, a core member of the right-wing.
COOPER: That was Saturday.
[20:30:00]
POWERS: Yes. Until now, right?
COOPER: Until now.
POWER: But I mean, but he really -- but the senators know that this is somebody who is, you know, rack-red (ph) conservative. He's not just a Republican. He's somebody who really has been reliable. And I think as Angus King said, you know, he's not somebody you can criticize his policies, but nobody really suggested he's a fabulous who just makes up things in terms of, you know, he would make up a conversation with the President.
You have John Kelly, the former chief of staff, obviously he's highly respected and who knows both player. So he's not just saying that I believe John Bolton because I like John Bolton. He's saying in a scenario where Donald Trump is saying one thing and John Bolton is saying another thing, I believe John Bolton.
COOPER: Scott, I mean, I'm wondering what you're hearing from Republicans.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's too early to predict what's going to happen on Friday. I mean, obviously, some people are still making up their minds. I do think the Q&A period apparently for some of them is going to make a difference in what they do Friday.
I will say this, I think if they go down the path of witnesses, what I've heard is that it's going to be witnesses as far as the eye can see. Because if you're dreaming of a scenario where you just halt Bolton in there and that's it, that's not going to happen, that the Republicans are going to want to let the White House call their own witnesses and that could be the Bidens, it could be Adam Schiff, it could be the whistleblower.
And apparently, what I was told is they have a long list of people they might call. That would essentially plunge the Senate into some sort of no man's land of indefinite witness calling. And so, I think that's actually a pretty good argument against doing it at all if you're trying to keep your conference together.
COOPER: Just to -- is that you think possibly why the White House is making that argument, that they're saying -- I mean, just as they said, there'd be a long, nasty court battle. There's some who've said, you know, that could be just trying to game this, that there's reasons the White House wouldn't want a long and nasty court battle over this because it could actually -- you know, a judge could declare that there was a crime that was committed.
POWERS: I think --
JENNINGS: For many reasons, the White House and the Senate Republican leadership would like for this to be over. And I think we'll point that McConnell will make and another Republican senators are making this is if any of these witnesses we bring, if they're not going to change your opinion about whether the President should be removed from office, whether it's because you don't think it rises to the level or because it's an election year or whatever your reason is, why prolong what's going to happen? We could do this now, why prolong this several months and let this cloud continue to hangover Washington?
POWERS: Well, do they care about the fact that now, you know, 75 percent of people now in this Quinnipiac poll are saying there should be witnesses? I mean, does it matter to them at all? Is that playing into their --
JENNINGS: Well, a huge chunk of them are Republicans and I can assure you they don't want to hear from Bolton, they want to hear from the Bidens, they want to hear from Schiff, and they want to hear from the whistleblower. So if you put it that way, sure, everybody wants witnesses. But again --
POWERS: No, I'm just asking, does it shift their thinking at all in terms of whether, you know, witnesses -- whether it's witnesses, all kinds of witnesses but, you know, does it matter to them?
JENNINGS: I don't think so.
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Scott, if this is your threat to throw this whole thing into a total mess for the country, perhaps the Democrats aught to accept the challenge. And look, this is supposed to be a trial, one, to get at the truth. When that didn't work, we have the new catechism of the new legal oracle, Dershowitz, a legal catechism that nobody has ever embraced of stature in which -- that was one of the most astonishing pieces of television I think I've ever seen, the two of you.
But what was most astonishing was Dershowitz's invention of legal -- look, I covered the courts. I'm not a lawyer. This is a grievous offense that the President has committed and that there now is acknowledgement that he has committed. It is grievous to enlist a foreign power to interfere with our election. It is not about maladministration. Maladministration is one thing and what has occurred here is grievous. It is a huge offense against the people of this country and our democratic process.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Scott, don't you think that that threat is a completely empty threat from the White House?
(CROSSTALK) TOOBIN: We're going to have a month-long trial if you agree to witnesses. Do you really think the White House wants a month-long trial even if the Bidens are testifying? I mean, I think McConnell has to stop this thing all together or else it's a big problem. And my general rule is you never bet against Mitch McConnell. And so, I think he is going to figure out a way to keep this thing under 50 votes because he -- the White House does not want a long trial under any -- I don't care who's testifying.
JENNINGS: I don't think it's an empty threat. I mean, apparently they do have a list of people that they would call. I think your bet is most of the time a good one. I think in this particular case, it's truly unknown because you obviously have had some senators express an interest in hearing from Bolton. You've had other senators come out and express confidence of what's going to happen. So, I don't really think anyone knows what's going to happen on Friday.
[20:35:01]
I do -- the only thing we know for sure, 100 percent, they're not going to convict the President. And so actually, I think the best argument that McConnell and anyone else could make is why you're prolong the inevitable here? Wouldn't be better for the country to put this behind us and get on about the business of the people? To me, that's the most appealing political argument for any senator.
TOOBIN: The only other thing I think we know 100 percent is that if Bolton doesn't testify, this trial is a travesty. This trial has no credibility at all, when you don't call the single most important person who has the knowledge that is at issue in the case.
BERNSTEIN: And the President has denied what is at stake here.
JENNINGS: My recommendation to Bolton would be, if you don't get called, you can, A, have a press conference. B, you know the House as far as I know is still a functioning piece of the legislative branch. They could call him any time and reopen the hearing.
BERNSTEIN: Scott, we have a trial going on in which we are supposedly wanting the truth to be established. And here we have a witness who has the best obtainable version of the truth that we know of. He might even have other witnesses. Let's get the truth and then make a decision. Acquit, you want to acquit after you know the truth? Fine. But let's establish the facts with a real witness.
COOPER: Thanks, everybody. Just ahead, the latest from investigators on the helicopter crash in L.A. county Sunday that killed nine people, including Kobe Bryant. Also the husband of one of the victims joins me to talk about how he is dealing, how his three children are dealing with the death of their mom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:40:44]
COOPER: Tonight, the National Transportation Safety Board says the helicopter that crashed into the side of a mountain killing nine people, including Kobe Bryant, missed clearing that mountain by just 20 to 30 feet. Aboard were Kobe Bryant, his daughter, Gianna, members of the Altobeli family, John, his wife Keri, and their daughter Alyssa, Sarah Chester and her daughter, Payton, were on board, the pilot, Ara Zobayan, and Christina Mauser.
We want to spend some time tonight remembering her. Christina was handpicked by Bryant himself to coach at this Mamba Sports Academy. She led clinics there for the WNBA players according to the "L.A. Times" and also coached in a private school attended by Bryant's daughter. Christina leaves behind not only a husband, but also three children. Her husband, Matt Mauser, joins us tonight to talk about how he and his family are coping with this incredible loss.
First of all, just how -- where are you in terms of how are you getting -- how are you dealing with this?
MATTHEW MAUSER, HUSBAND OF HELICOPTER CRASH VICTIM CHRISTINA MAUSER: Well, emotionally, I'm torn. It's like a roller coaster ride in a lot of ways. You know, I'm up, I'm down. I cry for no reason, whatsoever, and then I'm OK. Like I woke up this morning and said -- I mean, I haven't slept for two days and so, I woke up this morning and said I'm OK. I think I'm OK.
And then I walked out and I started to cry. So, and then I saw my kids and I started to cry. But I'm just trying to be open to not judging myself if I'm hurting or if the kids are hurting, not judging them. Just loving them and loving other people around me that are hurting as well, because I know a lot of people are hurting.
So, can I be honest with you that having other people feel grief along kind of really helps because there was a lot of people that are in pain right now. And they may not have lost somebody that they loved like I did, that wasn't their family but they're still hurting.
COOPER: I was actually in Orange County last night, and speaking in front of a group with several thousand of people
MAUSER: You could have stopped by.
COOPER: I would -- I mean, had I known, I would have. But it was a group of probably 3,000 people and I can't tell you how many of those people came up to me and talked to me about your family and all the other families. And I can tell you there was a room of 3,000 people who you and your kids and Christina and everybody else on board that helicopter was foremost in their minds. And everybody was talking and thinking about you.
MAUSER: Thank you.
COOPER: That's -- there's millions of people around the world who are thinking that as well. Can you tell me a little bit about Christina?
MAUSER: Thank you. Thank you.
COOPER: How did you meet? MAUSER: Oh, man. Well, we met in the most wholesome of places, a bar, here in Huntington Beach. And she walked up and she knew who I was. I'm in a band. And she asked me when I was going back up. And we started talking and she asked me what was her type -- what was my type and I looked at her and I said, you're my type, and that was it.
COOPER: I read that you --
MAUSER: And I --
COOPER: -- that you played one-on-one basketball with her, like early on, on a date? Is that true?
MAUSER: Oh, man. So when we started dating, you know, I have a basketball hoop in my front yard, practiced. I played basketball almost every other day and I thought I was pretty good. And I got in the driveway with her and, man, I had never experienced anything like Christina.
She was quick, strong, powerful. She could dribble in, penetrate, come back and shoot, lay it up. I mean, hit from anywhere, anywhere. She was a deadly three pointer, unstoppable with her pivot moves. She could hit -- she'd never miss. I think she had like a record at the high school for a free throw percentage, free throw percentage. She was just a stud.
And I didn't know how I felt about it at first. I was like, do I really want to date a girl that's better than me at basketball? And then I thought and I went, oh, man, I liked her even more. I just fell in love with her.
[20:45:07]
COOPER: And you coached together and I guess that's how, and correct me if I'm wrong, that's how you came across -- met Kobe Bryant. His daughter was at the school. I understand they used to call Christina the mother of defense as a coach.
MAUSER: MOD, that's what they called her on the team. MOD, yes, the girls came up on the Mamba team. The girls came up with her, you know, code name, MOD, mother of defense. Yes.
COOPER: And Kobe Bryant, he saw that -- he saw her skill. He knew -- he identified that right away.
MAUSER: Boom. Oh, God. So, Kobe was incredible at recognizing talent. And he called me and he said, I want to offer Christina a job. And I said, she can't do that. She's running my music. She's running -- she's got three kids. She's teaching full-time. I guess she can't. He goes, OK, I'll call her. So, he was pretty persuasive.
COOPER: And you have three kids. I think you have a 3-year-old, 9- year-old and 11-year-old. Is that right?
MAUSER: Yes, 3, 9, 11. COOPER: My dad died when I was 10 and I'll never forget the night my mom came in to tell me that he was gone. How do you -- I mean, how are your kids? I mean, it sounds like even a dumb question to ask.
MAUSER: Yes, I know, but it's the ultimate question. They're doing OK. My little one, her birthday is next week, that's the hard part. She's going to be 4. And so her birthday is on the 4th. And so I'm trying to navigate that. And she's kind of doesn't understand, but she does know.
She used to -- I mean, I'd walk in and she would call for mom. Where's mom? I want mom, mommy, mommy. And now I walk in, she doesn't call for her. So, it's bittersweet because I want her to still call for her mom, but it's hard to put her down when she's calling for mom, so I think she gets it. She knows we're grieving. She says don't cry.
And then my son is a little more quiet. He has outbursts. He's very sensitive. So I try to do physical activities with him. I let him hit a pillow. I kind of let him get it out when I hold him, when I hug him, when I kiss him, when I tell him mom loves you and I love you. I give him a hug from mom and give him a hug from me and move on.
And then my daughter is -- she's 11 and her friends are really important, so that's nice, because she played on Kobe's smaller team, the Little Mambas. So she knows the whole -- she knows everybody as well. And Kobe absolutely loved my daughter. They had a secret handshake. He called her Pen-Pen.
He came -- her seventh grade team -- she's in sixth grade for the school she plays and they won the championship this year. They hadn't won it since -- I believe, since the '80s. And we made a big bobblehead for my daughter and Kobe said give me that bobblehead. He stood up and sort of waving the bobblehead. And they came from behind and they had a last-minute victory. It was like the last -- you know, it was one of the happiest moments of my life, having him there and my wife and watching my daughter. It was very surreal.
But I just cope, Anderson, day by day. You know, I had a friend of mine, a fellow person who lost her husband a few years back. She has three kids, where I taught. She was here yesterday. I just came home from a walk and she's there -- she's sitting there and I said, what do I do? And the advice she gave to me was wake up, just wake up. I guess that's all you can do, huh?
COOPER: Yes. My mom used to say that sometimes all you can do is just, you know, put one foot in front of the other. Or you know, if you're not feeling like doing that, you just, you know, just keep breathing, minute by minute or even second by second.
MAUSER: Yes. Yes. I tell you the thing that hurts me the most, the thing that gets me the most are the -- you know, it's not the big things. It's not how good she was at basketball, you know, although those things are wonderful. The things that I miss the most are the little -- the tiny little things.
My wife was not just focused on the big things. My wife was focused on the little things and the attention, the detail, you know, about what kind of foods to give our kids, doctors, you know. How she would research every disease that was out there. She was, you know, she was relentless. And she was organized and detailed.
[20:50:05]
And how she treat people that weren't important that was -- my wife would always treat the person who you wouldn't expect anybody to treat well, she would always treat them the best. She was kind. She was funny.
Our goal was to make each other laugh every day. And my wife, she liked me because I made her laugh every day. And I was like, why do you like me, you know? Our first date, she -- I made her laugh so hard. We were listening to "I Can't Go for That," by Hall and Oates, and I was goofing on the song and she just started rolling. And I remember the first time I said I never heard anybody laugh this hard. She would laugh so hard and she couldn't stop and I miss that. I miss those -- just the little things.
COOPER: Yes.
MAUSER: That's the hardest.
COOPER: Matt, I'm just so sorry. And I hope you have family and friends around you. And you know, the one thing I always think about grief is that it feels really lonely and isolating, and it's actually, you know, it's a bond that unfortunately a lot of people share, a lot of people have experienced.
And I know it's easy to feel very alone in this right now, but it's -- there's a lot of other people out there who have gone through it and are going through it. And I hope you are surrounded by people who you can talk to about it.
MAUSER: I'll be honest with you. Today was the first day I started to feel that. I'm feeling support now. The first two days, I felt extremely alone. It was very dark. The first day was brutal. But today, we have a little bit of a sun coming out. The sun came out.
It's been foggy. The last couple days are cloudy in the morning and stuff like that. But today it's been sunny. And maybe that's a sign, you know, that's hopefully going to get easier. You know, like I said, it's good and bad. There's good times and bad times. I'm just -- like your mom says, one foot in front of the other.
COOPER: Yes. You know, there's no -- the other thing my mom used to say, which is that there's no timeline for grief. That, you know, people can kind of think, OK, well, you'll be over this at some point, but it's obviously different for everybody. It's, you know, it's never the same, but it gets better.
MAUSER: Sounds like you had a pretty good mom, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, I did. I did. Well, your kids have a very good dad.
MAUSER: Well, they had a good mom too.
COOPER: Yes.
MAUSER: They had a really good mom.
COOPER: I'd like to stay in touch with you. But I appreciate you talking tonight. And I'd like to -- I'll get your information and reach out to you, if that's OK.
MAUSER: Heck yes, man. Maybe we can have a little more fun. Maybe we can do shots on new years. That would be -- I'd much rather hang with you doing that.
COOPER: All right. Don't ask me to play basketball, though, because it's not pretty. It's not good at all.
MAUSER: Well, I guess neither was I. Well, God bless you. It was really -- it was an honor. I really appreciate it.
COOPER: Well, Matt, yes, just keep breathing in and out. And please give your best to your kids and let them know -- I know they know everybody's thinking about them, so I hope that helps a little bit.
MAUSWER: Will do. I appreciate it.
COOPER: If you'd like to help the Mauser family, there's a GoFundMe page. You can see the link at the bottom of your screen right now. It's gofundme.com/f/mauser-family-support-fund.
Let's check on with Chris to see what he's working on for "Cuomo Prime Time." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: His wife, Christina, had an expression "level up" when someone was down or off balance or at a kilter, you know, dealing with something. She'd say, level up. I heard that from her brother, who obviously is going to support his brother-in-law very much, and the two girls, and their son.
But, you know, the loss is so tremendous for a young family like that, especially when there was so much loss in this one ship, you know, this one helicopter. These three kids, their parents, so it is good to tell their stories, and it's good to recognize how this death of Kobe Bryant and his daughter is making so many of us think about how we should be living right now. And we'll talk about that tonight as well as looking at impeachment and the obvious case for witnesses. It's been true all along, especially now.
COOPER: All right, Chris, we'll see you in about six minutes from now. In a moment, an emotional tribute to the late Kobe Bryant from his former teammates, Shaquille O'Neal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:58:11]
COOPER: Our sister network, TNT, continued the mourning for Kobe Bryant tonight with the special program event honoring his career and life, emotions clearly still raw for this brotherhood, particularly those of his former Lakers teammates, Shaquille O'Neal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, FORMER TEAMMATE OF KOBE BRYANT: I haven't felt pain that sharp in a while, 47 years old, lost two grandmothers, lost The Serge, lost my sister, and now I lost a little brother. We -- their names will be attached together for what we did. You know, it just makes me think that in life, sometimes we are holding back certain things we should just do. When we up here, we work a lot. And I think a lot of times we take stuff for granted.
Like, I don't talk to you guys as much as I need to. The fact that we're not going to be able to joke at his hall of fame ceremony, we're not going to be able to say, hi, I got five, you got four. The fact that we're not going to be able to say, if we would stay together, we could have got 10. Those are the things that you can't get back.
And with the loss of my father and my sister and my friend, that's all I wish I could just say something to them again. The last time I talked to them was when we were here and I asked them if they got 50 and they got 60, the last time I spoke to them. And I just wish I could have -- you know, so it definitely changes me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can read more about Kobe Bryant, all the victims of the crash at cnn.com. We'll return at 11:00 p.m. Eastern for a special edition of "360." Let's hand over to Chris for "Cuomo Prime Time. Chris?
END
