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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Campaign Moves Forward With Tulsa Rally Despite Health Concerns, U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 119,000; VP Pence Refuses to Say "Black Lives Matter" in Interview, Instead Says "All Lives Matter"; Federal Judge Skeptical He Can Stop Publication Of New Bolton Book; No Immediate Action Bolton Book After Hearing; Secy. Gates On Former Trump Admin. Officials Turning On President; Tulsa Marks Juneteenth Ahead Of Controversial Trump Rally; 99 Years Since Tulsa's "Black Wall Street" Massacre. Aired on 8-9:30p ET
Aired June 19, 2020 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:19]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
Tonight with demonstrations and celebrations in cities all over America on this day, Juneteenth that commemorates the emancipation of enslaved men, women and children, the president of the United States has chosen to threaten anyone who dares protest outside his rally tomorrow in Tulsa, Oklahoma, this morning tweeting: Any protesters, anarchists, agitators, looters or lowlifes who are going to Oklahoma, please understand you will not be treated like you have been in New York, Seattle or Minneapolis. It will be a much different scene.
Now, the White House spokesperson was asked about it a few hours later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: It's the president indicated the right to peacefully assemble should not apply to his rally?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, that's not at all what he was saying.
He was meaning violent protesters, anarchists, looters, the kind of lawlessness that we saw play out before President Trump came in with the National Guard and calmed our streets with law and order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, there's a lot to unpack there, the idea that he calmed the streets with law and order by pushing out peaceful protesters. What he actually was meaning, she says he was meaning violent protesters regarding Tulsa. That's what she says.
But that is not what the president meant. You might ask how do we know this? Because that is not what he said. He said, any protesters, lumping any protesters in with anarchists, agitators, looters and lowlifes. The president has called this rally tomorrow the start of his
reelection campaign and what a way to begin, encouraging tens of thousands of people from near and far to come to Tulsa, pack an indoor arena for hours standing shoulder to shoulder with other people who may or may not be wearing masks and who may or may not have COVID.
The president who so loves his supporters that he is encouraging them to potentially risk their lives and sign a waiver they won't sue him if they get ill is also just lying about the threat of COVID in Oklahoma and elsewhere.
Here's what he said when he was asked, quote, aren't you worried about people getting sick?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, because if you look, the numbers are very minuscule compared to what it was. It's dying out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's dying out. The virus is not dying out. People are still dying.
The president's interest in COVID, that, too is dying.
Here is Oklahoma's seven-day average of new cases since the beginning of the pandemic. As you can see, the virus is not dying out there, it's thriving.
Also, in Florida where new cases hit another record high today, California also seeing record numbers of new cases, not fading away there either, or in Arizona sadly, which set another record today. The president has been lying about it all week and the vice president has been telling state governors to lie by echoing administration's bogus claims that increase testing is the reason for the increase in cases.
And the vice president who is supposedly the head of the coronavirus task force, which is no longer seen in public together, is himself modeling risky behavior, not wearing a mask, not social distancing, not doing what members of his own team have been telling everyone to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: As the country begins to reopen, don't forget to wear a cloth face covering when in public.
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: We have the scientific evidence of how important mask wearing is.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Go out, wear a mask, stay six feet away from anyone.
BIRX: A mask does prevent droplets from reaching others.
FAUCI: As long as you're not in a crowd and you're not in a situation where you can physically transmit the virus, and that's what a mask is for.
ADAMS: Remember, I wear my face covering to protect you, and you wear yours to protect me.
BIRX: And out of respect for each other, as Americans that care for each other, we need to be wearing masks in public when we cannot social distance.
ADAMS: We're all in this together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We're all in this together. Out of respect for each other. Just some of the advice from the vice president's own coronavirus task force members.
Here is the specific guidance from the CDC on events and gatherings and I'm quoting now, highest risk: large in person gatherings where it is difficult for individuals to remain spaced at least six feet apart and attendees travel from outside the local area.
Add to that, an inside event.
By the way, the vice president today refused repeatedly on camera today to say the words Black Lives Matter. He'd only say, quote, all lives matter. We'll have more on that.
First, two angles on Tulsa tonight. Gary Tuchman is in Tulsa. Jim Acosta is at the White House.
Let's start with Gary Tuchman. What's the latest there?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, this is the BOK Center right over here. This is where the rally will be held. It is the home of the Tulsa Oilers Minor League Hockey team. The Oilers in the league suspended their season in March at the beginning of the COVID outbreak, because it wasn't safe for 19,000 people to be watching hockey.
But tomorrow night, 19,000 people may be more will be watching Donald Trump.
[20:05:03]
Masks are being given out, but the masks are not mandatory. Lots of people are not happy we're here and kind of following us along. But we want to give you a look at the people who've been waiting in line now. Many of them all week.
But hundreds of people here right now and this is 25 hours before this rally starts. We've asked a lot of people, are you going to wear the masks given out? They tell us is no way they wear masks. They are criticizing us for having masks right now.
But other people say, especially the older people say they are considering wearing masks. That's the truth. You can see the chant going on right now for people angry with our masks. That gives you an idea, though, of what is going on here.
Also, one other thing, we asked people about the COVID. Many of these people believe COVID is not real. Other people tell us that COVID is the same as the flu. Some people acknowledge that COVID is a serious situation.
But they say it's personal responsibility. It's up to us whether we come or not. The fact is, that this rally will be taking place for about an hour and a half. People are allowed to go in four hours early, so people will be in there, most of them without masks for five and a half hours. It's a very precarious situation for the people to go inside and it will be precarious for the people inside who the people inside run into.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman in Tulsa, Oklahoma -- Gary, thanks very much.
I want to go now to have more on what the president has been saying about all this and why the people around him see this rally so important for that.
Let's go to Jim Acosta.
So, let's talk about what is going on in the White House. I mean, do they care that the rally is also considered to be a possible super spreader event? Why is it so important that this occur?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, you know, I think that the president understands that his reelection hopes are tied to motivating this base. And so, this has become almost his top priority right now, if not the top priority. I'll tell you, when we asked the press secretary about this earlier today, she said there are no reservations inside the White House about having this rally.
I asked Kayleigh McEnany whether or not she's going to wear a mask. She's going to be at the rally tomorrow night. She says she will not. It's a personal choice for people who work at the White House.
But, Anderson, as you and I know, I mean, essentially the president has politicized -- the White House has politicized this issue of wearing masks. But given all of that, the Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale says he may wear a mask tomorrow night, and Kevin Hassett, the president's economic advisor, said if he were going, he would wear a mask. They are all over the place on this issue.
But, listen to what Dr. Anthony Fauci said earlier today. He said on an interview with CBS Radio, that you should avoid large gatherings and if you can't do that, always wear a mask and here you have the White House press secretary essentially saying she's not going to listen to Dr. Fauci's advice.
COOPER: And there was supposedly a coronavirus task force meeting today. You know, we don't get to hear from them anymore. They don't do the daily briefings.
Do we know if concerns about the rally were raised there?
ACOSTA: We know that concerns about large gatherings were raised, and it was done in a non-specific way I'm told by a source close to the task force.
Anderson, they have had multiple task force meetings over the last couple weeks ever since we've known the president is going to have this rally, and my understanding from talking to my sources is that at these task force meetings, they have not raised the issue of the Trump rally in Tulsa, which is incredible because this is the very place you would go and be able to hear from public health experts as to whether this is a good idea.
Anderson, I talked to another administration official this evening. You get the sense that they're hell-bent on having these rallies no matter what. They are looking at the demonstrations in the streets, these protests in the streets that happened since the killing of George Floyd and they are saying if they can have their protests, they can have their demonstrations, why can't we have these rallies in places like Tulsa?
Not really understanding that it is sort of an apples and oranges comparison but it seems, Anderson, that they are willing to take this risk if experts like Dr. Anthony Fauci say this is a very bad idea.
COOPER: But they are still having people -- I mean, they're having people who attend these rallies sign waivers, is that correct?
ACOSTA: The Trump campaign is having people sign waivers saying if you come into this rally, you give up all recourse in terms of suing the president or any of the organizers of the event, which is incredible because you're going to have -- you're going to have people going into this rally tomorrow. You just saw on the live shot with Gary Tuchman who just aren't going to wear masks and not going to be social distancing.
We asked Kayleigh McEnany about this. She said, well, CDC guidelines are recommended but not required. Well, of course, they are recommended and not required. There is no way for them to socially distance inside a crowded arena.
So, they're just not dealing with the reality of the situation and that's what we've been hearing from our sources all throughout this, Anderson.
COOPER: Jim Acosta -- Jim, thanks very much.
ACOSTA: Yes.
COOPER: Perspective now on the public health factors at play here. Joining us now is Dr. Stephen Prescott, the president of the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation.
Dr. Prescott, thanks for being with us.
Tulsa, I know, recorded sadly the highest number of cases to date. As a medical professional, what do you make of this rally tomorrow -- I mean, just from politics aside from a purely health standpoint, does this make sense?
DR. STEPHEN PRESCOTT, PRESIDENT, OKLAHOMA MEDICAL RESEARCH FOUNDATION: It does not. Certainly having a large group gathering, particularly in an enclosed space like the arena that they are talking about is a bad idea.
I can tell you that our medical research foundation, we don't allow meetings of even ten people. If they want to have meetings of ten from the lab group, they have to meet out in our courtyard around picnic tables. They cannot be in an enclosed space and they can't be more than ten.
So, to put 20,000 people in a enclosed space for hours and hours is very dangerous.
COOPER: You know, I think, look, everybody is sick of, you know, social distancing and I mean, nobody enjoys what's been going on and has been devastating for people. As a doctor, how do you convince a patient, you know, plenty of people know what's good for them, and yet, people still do things which are bad for them? I mean, how do you try to get this message across?
PRESCOTT: Yes, you make a good point. It's not just true of this situation but of all of health issues. And, you know, as human beings, we don't judge risk very well. That's well-established. We tend to, you know, pay attention to things that just happened or that are highlighted on the news or whatever and think that's the biggest risk when in reality it's not.
I used to joke when they say the best time to get somebody to quit smoking cigarettes is in the cardiac care unit after a heart attack. That's a little -- that's a macabre joke, of course, but there is a little truth to that, which is people say, well, I didn't think it was going to be me and so there's always that element of well, it's not going to happen to me and we certainly see that now with the coronavirus situation. I say in particular with young people who feel like they're immortal or at least they won't be seriously sickened by the coronavirus.
COOPER: What seems so destructive though about the administration's approach on this is -- I understand their push to reopen and, you know, that's an arguable point. But it's not an either/or scenario. I mean, reopening doesn't mean you don't have -- don't wear a mask.
You could have an administration, which is, you know, pushing for reopening and at the same time saying, you know what? To really make reopening work, we've got to double down on mask wearing, and we've got to double down on social distancing and testing and all the rest, the contact tracing. PRESCOTT: Yes, you're exactly right. To say it was an example, again,
back to our own research institute, we require everybody that comes to the door to wear a mask unless they are in a private office or some park or outside like at one of these picnic tables in the courtyard. But any time they are inside and around people, they must wear a mask.
And to your point -- the broader point about how to reopen, I -- I'm in favor of trying to get our economy going and society open. We're all tired of this and it's devastating to many people for their -- for their income and so forth, but it needs to be done in a sensible way and as safe as we can make it.
So, we have a big collision in Oklahoma City called Start OKC. It's designed to do just that, try to use best practices from all around the country to, you know, wearing masks, UV lights to sterilize the air and antibody testing later on, increased viral testing. So, all of the things that you mentioned are really important.
COOPER: Yes.
PRESCOTT: If we use them, we can do this safely and get our economy going again.
COOPER: Dr. Prescott, I wish you the best. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
PRESCOTT: My pleasure, thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, more on the Juneteenth breaking news and what the vice president is refusing to say on the occasion. We're joined by Dr. Cornel West coming up in just a moment.
And later, what a federal judge had to say to Justice Department attorneys trying to stop John Bolton's book from coming out even though the remarkable details from it already have come out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:21]
COOPER: Juneteenth has seen a lot of history on top of the mixed legacy of slavery and freedom that gave birth to it. This year, protests over the police killings of black Americans surrounds the day.
Today, when asked about it, Vice President Pence could not bring himself to say the words "Black Lives Matter". Instead he used a trope you hear from counterprotesters, all lives matter.
Speaking to CNN, affiliate WPVI in Philadelphia, Mr. Pence made note of George Floyd's killing and Juneteenth. He said, quote, and in this nation, especially on Juneteenth, we celebrate the fact that from the founding of this nation, we've cherished the idea that all, all of us are created equal and endowed by our Creator with certain rights and so all lives matter in a very real sense. Now, in saying that, though, in addition to not saying "Black Lives
Matter", the vice president also makes no mention to the fact that we have not always cherished as a country that all women are equal or gay people are equal or black men and women are created equal. His statement that all lives matter leaves a lot out. The interviewer asked him why we would not say those words, Black Lives Matter.
The vice president answered, quote: Well, I don't accept the fact that there is a segment of American society that disagrees in the preciousness and importance of every human life.
Joining us now is Dr. Cornel West, professor of the practice of public philosophy at Harvard, professor emeritus at Princeton, and co-host with Professor Tricia Rose of the new podcast, "The Tightrope".
Dr. West, it is great to see you again.
I'm just wondering what you thought of, you know, the vice president, you know, not saying "Black Lives Matter". That doesn't really surprise me because I think he views it as a political statement and he's got the base to appeal to, but then also, on top of that, to sort of re rewrite history and say we have cherished the notion that all men are created equal.
[20:20:08]
Obviously, that is not the case. Sadly.
CORNEL WEST, PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY, HARVARD DIVINITY SCHOOL: No, I think that the both president and vice president constitute a significant slice of my fellow citizens who live in a state of denial. I wish that they would go back to the great Frederick Douglass' powerful speech, what the July 4th means to the American slave.
Listen, Pence, listen, Trump, when he says, July 4th your celebration is a sham. National greatness is nothing but swelling vanity. That your boasted liberty is an unholy license. That America has no rival when it comes to revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy.
That's 1852 in Rochester, New York.
Listen, president, listen, vice president, this is part of your history. This is a vicious legacy of white supremacy. It doesn't begin not just with black people, as you know my brother. It begins with our precious indigenous brothers and sisters.
We got to get away from this notion that slavery was America's original sin. No, the first sin was a white supremacist disposition of the land and genocidal attack, and then the enslavement of Africans, and then the subornation of white brothers with no property who still could not vote, let also the patriarchal domination.
And yet, in the midst of those evils, America still generated folk who love truth enough, who love beauty enough, who love goodness enough to say, let us resist. Let us still fight. You know, in the 1960s, H. Rap Brown used to say, no slave should die
a natural death. To every -- every oppressed people, no matter what form it takes, has to go down fighting.
And we fight in our various ways. We empty ourselves. We donate ourself. We serve others in various ways but don't die a natural death.
That's what Juneteenth is about, my brother, and happy holiday to you. That's what it's about. That's precisely what it's about.
Keep in mind now, brother, that it was not really the end of slavery as you often here on the press and so forth, that the Confederacy army was still fighting in June. They defeat the trans Mississippi wing of the Confederate army until June the 2nd, and it was 17 days later that he got to Galveston.
It was not a problem of communication. It was one of military domination. The Confederacy was refusing to give up. The Lee (ph) army surrendered April the 9th. That brother Abraham Lincoln had been shot the 14th and died the 15th. They are still fighting.
So, the slaves they didn't have communication problem, they knew there was a declaration, but on the ground, they still had occupation by the Confederacy. They didn't get to Houston until June the 20th.
So, here's your black people, wonderful words on paper, where is the execution on the ground? Where is the action on the ground?
(INAUDIBLE) the same year, the December, the 13th Amendment filing ratified. Even the end of slavery was not just an abstract matter of words on the ground, black people were still being enslaved in the forms of neo slavery were beginning.
That order that Granger actually read says, what, masters of slaves will become employers and hire labor, free men go back home and be quiet, have nothing to do whatsoever with military activity except your low wages and if you're lazy, we will withdraw any support. That's in the executive order number three that Major General Granger read to the slaves.
So that this issue of how do we hold on against the grain with integrity, honesty and decency, with vision, but also understating how ugly it is, listen brother Pence, listen brother Trump. I'm born in Tulsa, so I don't want to get started with Tulsa now. Whoa.
COOPER: I didn't realize you were born in Tulsa?
WEST: Hospital with the Wilson brothers and the Gap Band, and the Gap Band, G-A-P green (ph) (INAUDIBLE). That's Black Wall Street. That's where you had more wealth.
Oklahoma, my father went to (INAUDIBLE) Booker T. Washington and so forth, struggling to make sure the best of Oklahoma was preserved and now here comes Trump bringing all of his hatred and greed and ignorance and manipulation. But he's a human being like everybody else, so we got to keep track of
humanity. We just got to (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: For someone who claims to, you know, want to protect American heritage, for the vice president to -- you know, by not tearing down Confederate statutes, which weren't put up during the war or even immediately after the war, they were put up to -- you know, to rewrite the history of slavery in this country, to kind of champion the lost cause, I just find it ironic administration which is claiming to be protecting American heritage does not actually fully admit what American heritage actually is.
[20:25:05]
And the fact is that, you know, America is able to look at its painful past and its painful present and try to change. I mean, that is one of the things about this country whether -- you know, whether it works or not, and whether it's successful or not, you know, we are having these discussions and have throughout the centuries. I just think it's so important not to rewrite what actually occurred.
WEST: Absolutely. But I mean, it's true that Pence and Trump, when they say they are preserving American heritage, they are, but they are reserving the worst of it. There is the best and there is the worst. The Martin Luther King Jr. is as American as Donald Trump. Trump is a gangster, marginal (ph) saint. He's a force for good.
And there is white, brown, red, yellow, different colors who represent the best of the American heritage, and there's different colors representing the worst, but white supremacy is meant, given white power privilege and benefit and so forth, that too often is been the white supremacist who have been able to triumph.
The Confederacy lost a war, white supremacy won the peace. We've been wrestling with it every since we had to loss (ph) Reconstruction. We had to loss between 1965 up until recently, but now we're pushed back, but thank God, we've got these folk disproportionately, young, on the streets, saying, we will have no more of this and that puts a smile on my face. (INAUDIBLE) you know what I mean?
Oh, yes. We have not in vain -- we passed on something and we're going to continue to pass on something until the worms get our body and the Lord gets our soul if we're lucky.
COOPER: If we are lucky. Amen to that.
Dr. Cornel West, thank you. Appreciate it.
Just ahead --
WEST: Stay strong, my brother.
COOPER: You, too.
A bad week in court for President Trump. His latest possible set back involves John Bolton's memoir. We'll tell you what a federal judge said about the Justice Department's request for a temporary injunction when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:41]
COOPER: John Bolton's memoir is still slated for publication in four days, most major news media, including CNN have obtained copies and so today a federal judge tell the Justice Department, which is seeking a temporary injunction against the books released that the horse quote seems to be out of the barn. It's unclear when the judge will make a decision could even come after the books release date.
He did say the Bolton appeared to have walked away from the classified intelligence review process, but that it was difficult to see what he could do about a book several of whose more shocking allegations about the President's ignorance and his cozying up to foreign dictator are already in print. Now the President has already lambasted Bolton as a quote wacko, just like he insulted John Kelly and James Mattis when they left the White House.
The White House press secretary was asked about that today while the President would demean the abilities of men the President himself appointed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why does the President keep hiring people who are dumb as a rock overrated way over their heads wacko and incompetence?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So the President makes hiring decisions based on the fact that he likes to have countervailing viewpoints. I spoke to him this morning about the hiring of John Bolton in particular and he said, I like to counterbalance my own opinion with individuals that oftentimes have the very opposite opinion of my own. He likes the model of having a team of rivals like what we saw in President Lincoln's administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me is CNN chief legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin and chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.
Jeff, a cabinet of rivals.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, just like Lincoln.
COOPER: Yes.
TOOBIN: Just like Lincoln.
COOPER: Yes. And so many ways. Just legally, the judge clearly doesn't think that it's possible stop this book coming out. I mean, I think even you have a copy of Bolton's book at this point.
TOOBIN: You know, Anderson, we talk about, you know, the President's racism. We talked about the bigotry. What we don't talk about often enough, I think is the sheer incompetence, the sheer just inability to do the job of running the government. I mean, imagine asking a judge to suppress a book where, you know, here's my copy. It came in the mail today from Simon & Schuster Publicity Department, you can't suppress this book. It's just a completely ridiculous request. Earlier this week, Chief Justice John Roberts said, you know what, you could have repealed DACA but you didn't do it right.
And the same thing with, you know, putting a citizenship question on the census, you could have done that if you knew what you were doing. I mean, this is all part of a pattern in this administration, putting aside the merits of their issue -- of what they're trying to do. They just don't know what they're doing. And they today was another example of that.
COOPER: Dana, I mean we've seen two competing arguments coming from the White House about the book that is both full of lies and also full of classified information. Both those can't really be true. Can they?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well I'll answer that by saying that I, too have a copy of the book. So this is the horse out of the barn, as you said, and so --
COOPER: So I'm might the only person who wasn't sent an advanced copy by the publisher?
BASH: I'll see if I can get you a copy.
COOPER: No, that's all right. I believe in buying my books. No, it's fine.
BASH: I lost my train of thought so on this, the question is, is that you asked is about it? Can it be both classified and alive at the same time? Richard Grinnell, who was an acting director of national intelligence for the President briefly just was on Erin Burnett Show and said that it can be because there could be a kernel of information that is classified that is part of a largely fabricated story.
[20:35:07]
Putting that aside that, that is a logic -- an argument that is may or may or might not be logical that is being spun by the President's allies right now. What you are seeing is a classic Trump pattern, which is, you know, maybe there is some incompetence, as Jeffrey said, but in this one, it's just pure rage. I mean, he has been doing this since a, he has been a realtor and excuse me, a real estate developer and a businessman in New York, and he doesn't like something, he goes after them with a lawsuit. And I can imagine the people at the Justice Department who are making these arguments. I'm sure that they're not very happy about it, but they're being ordered to do so by the President of the United States because he is mad. And it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's not the first time we've seen that.
COOPER: You know, usually he would threaten lawsuits, usually, you know, more or less, more often than not, I think didn't go through with them. But it was more just the threat. Jeff, sorry, go ahead. TOOBIN: No, but I mean, it's just the -- it's one thing if you hire a private lawyer, and you know the lawyer will just do what you say these people are the United States Department of Justice, they work for us. They don't work for Donald Trump. And the idea that they would go into court with such an absurd request, just because Donald Trump is mad. And just because, you know, I mean, all this, you know, government activity and campaign activity to make him feel better, you know, we're going to go have a rally and expose thousands of people to dying because he feels like he needs the affirmation of a crowd.
You know, that's not how government and campaigns are supposed to work, that the government is supposed to actually work on the merits and for the interest of the government not the personal peek of the President. And you know, he's going to wind up having his head handed to him on this issue already. Although he might get John Bolton's money taken away that issue is alive one. And Bolton by, you know, bypassing the classified information process may actually have his money taken away, but the book is not going anywhere, that's for sure.
COOPER: It wasn't all good. I mean, the judge was very critical Bolton's actions, right, I mean, sanity, the obligation to go through the review process, but instead just walked away and published. I mean, it's, yes.
BASH: And there's something to that. I mean, there's definitely something to that. John Bolton, you know, would argue, probably that he didn't wait for the review process because they were dragging their heels, because they knew exactly what John Bolton wanted to do. And it was bad for the President. And they wanted to slow roll the process, which they already did. He wanted to publish this, you know, several months ago. So there is an argument on both sides. I think, you know, one thing that John Bolton has done that I don't think I've seen since James Comey is that he has united Republicans and Democrats against him in a way that I haven't seen in a long time.
COOPER: Yes. Dana Bash, thank you, Jeffrey Toobin as well.
More on the former White House officials who believe President Trump is unfit for office. Next, Robert Gates who served two presidents, defense secretary joins us when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:56]
COOPER: Before the break, we were talking about the new memoir by John Bolton who says the President Trump is quote unfit for office. It's just the latest broadside against the President by someone who serves in closely. General John Kelly, Trump's former Chief of Staff said that we need to look harder at who we elect Kelly agreed with former Defense Secretary James Mattis who wrote the quote, Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people. General Mattis also compared the President to the Nazis.
Joining me now, Robert Gates, former Secretary of Defense under President George W. Bush and Barack Obama. He's also the author of a new book, Exercise of Power, American Failures, Successes and a New Path Forward in the Post Cold War World.
Secretary Gates, thanks so much for being with us. I want to get your book in a moment. I do want to just get your reaction, though, to all the former Trump administration officials and their criticism of the President, you know, John Bolton saying President Trump's unfit for office, you're kind of echoing words you used in 2016. He obviously has more now, first hand experience. Do you have any reason to doubt Bolton or any of these other? You know, the Secretary Mattis for example?
ROBERT GATES, FMR SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I have the highest regard for Secretary Mattis and I think, you know, I, as I understand it, from what I read, Bolton took copious notes, and clearly was able to observe firsthand for 17 or 18 months. I think one of the reasons there have been so many sort of tell all exposes from this administration, a couple of reasons. First, loyalty is a two way street. If people know that the President has your back and will support you, they're going to, they're going to be very careful about them doing anything that damages them.
On the other hand, if they know that they hang by a thread every day in their job, that's a different matter.
COOPER: In your book, you talk about teamwork and talk about process and how important that is the success of any administration. You know, when asked why the President keeps hiring people, he later labels as dumb as a rock, overrated way over their heads, wacko and competent all words he's used. The White House press surgery to say the present Trump likes countervailing viewpoints compared himself to President Lincoln's team of rivals that that's what he's going for.
I mean, do you buy that at all that? You know, he's mirroring the, you know, team of rivals, cabinet rivals there?
GATES: If there's if there's one consistent theme and all of the books by former senior officials in this administration, it has it has been that the President does not like having countervailing opinions, he does not like being disagreed with. And unfortunately, that's a mark of, of the best Presidents. They purposely surround themselves with strong people, strong personalities, who will disagree with them, who will argue with them. And that certainly was the case that I encountered under both President Bush and President Obama. They, they went out of their way to solicit contrary points of view.
[20:45:08]
COOPER: Are allies or adversaries, you know, they read, they see these comments the controversies from President Trump. What impact do you think this has had? I mean, all of this has had on us global influence, because the President repeatedly falls back on this phrase that he uses that, you know, before the world was laughing at us. No one is laughing anymore. Seems to me, I mean, it's just whether they were laughing before, I don't know, but they certainly seem to be laughing now. GATES: I think one of my big disappointments, frankly, has been the President's unwillingness or inability to understand that allies and friends are a unique asset for the United States. I talk about this a lot in the book. Should we put more pressure on them to spend more on defense? Absolutely. But they -- one thing that's different, Russia and China have no allies, they have clients, but no allies. we do. And just think how much stronger our position would be in challenging China, particularly on economic and structural issues.
If we had our on our side of the table, the Europeans or the Japanese and the Australians and the Indians and so on. Allies are a huge asset and in not understanding that I think is a real problem.
COOPER: Then the Navy decided today in what was seen as a major reversal to fire the captain, the aircraft carrier, who warned about coronavirus aboard his ship whose letter went public. There was a preliminary investigation which recommended he'd be reinstated. I'm wondering what do you make of that decision.
GATES: Anderson, you know, I don't have any inside information about the case at all. So I'm really not in a position to judge.
COOPER: In the last 24 hours. President Trump has threatened protesters, failed to say he accept the result of the election if he lost, attacks mail-in voting? How concerned are you about the next -- I don't know. Yes, I mean, the next year in the life of this country, and I mean and just long term. I mean there's a lot of people right now obviously who economically devastated, you know, feel very isolated and alone. Obviously you feel, you know, their rights have been violated for four generations. There's a lot of discontent in this country. What -- are you optimistic about the future?
GATES: Anderson, I think we need to realize we're facing in the middle of three crises all at once, an economic crisis, a race crisis, and a virus crisis. And, and they all interact with one another. And I would have to say, based on what I've seen, and frankly, not just the President, but the paralysis on Capitol Hill, I'm not very optimistic -- I guess I'd have to say I'm kind of pessimistic for the near term. I'm an optimist about the country for the longer term. But for the next while I'm pretty pessimistic mainly because politicians across the spectrum are so focused on dividing us and on seeking and/or keeping power, that the best interests of the country are secondary.
COOPER: Secretary Robert Gates, I really appreciate you, you talking with us tonight. Thank you so much.
GATES: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Again, the name of the book Exercise of Power.
Selma, Memphis, Mississippi, some of the scenes of racial hatred in American history. But do you know what happened in Tulsa nearly a century ago. It was nothing short of an attempt to genocide and it's been largely forgotten by many people in this country. Certainly in the history books at school textbooks. We remember the massacre of Black Wall Street, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:53:00]
COOPER: Across America tonight communities are marking Juneteenth in Tulsa that includes those in the Greenwood district. The neighborhood recently marked 99 years since one of the most horrific acts of racial slaughter in our nation's history in the area then known as Black Wall Street. That sickening legacy was one of the points mentioned in a lawsuit trying to stop President Trump's campaign rally tomorrow night over health concerns. Rally the President originally wanted to hold on this night.
The lawsuit was thrown out today plaintiffs included a group devoted to keeping the memory of the Tulsa Race Massacre alive. Its moment many Americans never learned about in school.
Tonight, Randi Kaye shows us why we should have. And a warning some what you're about to show you is graphic and may be hard to watch. But we believe it's important to bring you history as it really happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In 1921, the Greenwood area of Tulsa Oklahoma was thriving. It was an affluent area home to more than 300 black owned businesses that became known as Black Wall Street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was an amazing time for blacks in Tulsa.
KAYE (voice-over): Despite all the success African-Americans were still dealing with segregation and deep racial tension. It came to a head beginning on May 30th, 192, when in 19-year-old African-American man was accused of assaulting a white woman in an elevator in downtown Tulsa.
MECHELLE BROWN, GREENWOOD CULTURAL CENTER: The elevator doors closed, and a few minutes. A few moments later, there's a screen the elevator doors open, and Dick Rowland runs.
KAYE (voice-over): The woman never press charges, but Dick Rowland was still arrested.
BROWN: By the end of the day, many whites were claiming that she had been raped in the Drexel building.
KAYE (voice-over): By the next day, May 31st, 1921. A white mob had gathered outside the courthouse were Rowland was being held promising a lynching.
BROWN: Lynchings were all too common in Tulsa.
KAYE (voice-over): A group of African-American men went to confront the white mob at the courthouse, there was a struggle between the black and white armed mobs and shots were fired. The African-Americans retreated to Greenwood hoping to protect their property and families. But the white mob followed, killing African-Americans and burning down everything in sight.
[20:55:07]
BROWN: They call it the National Art who was told that there was a negro uprising and negros for killing innocent on arms wide so they sided with the predominantly white police force.
KAYE (voice-over): Nearly 6,000 African-Americans were forcibly detained. While they were held, the white mob stole their valuables and burn their homes to the ground. George Monroe was just five years old when the massacre happened.
GEORGE MONROE, 5 YEARS OLD WHEN RIOT OCCURRED: The thing that I remember more than any other thing is when my mother looked out the front door and so four men with torches coming down our sidewalk into our house.
KAYE (voice-over): This woman's grandmother lived through it too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me was really murder. It was a massacre. My grandmother was awakened at night and just told a run, just get up and run. And they ran. She was only nine they ran four days.
KAYE (voice-over): By the time it was over at least 300 African- Americans were dead. Many were buried in mass graves or piled on dump trucks and dumped in the Arkansas River, according to the Greenwood Cultural Center, 35 square blocks of property were destroyed too, leaving most black families with only the clothes on their backs.
BROWN: This was about racism. This was about envy. They saw that blacks were -- many of them were very wealthy. And they were simply envious. They would make comments such as how dare those negros have a grand piano in their home and I don't have one in mine. We will not forget the history of Black Wall Street or the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre.
KAYE (voice-over): Randi Kaye, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well ahead, we are live in Tulsa as President Trump gets ready to test the power of his campaign and threat against protesters while personally potentially creating a coronavirus issue.
[21:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Good evening. Chris Cuomo is off tonight.
In this hour, my conversation with Trevor Noah, who sees race in America from the perspective of someone who grew up with a legacy of institutionalized racism, Apartheid in South Africa.
Also, in the hour ahead, W. Kamau Bell, and Gloria Browne-Marshall, on Juneteenth, the history being made, at this moment, on racial justice, in this country, and the President's rally tomorrow, in the middle of the pandemic in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which, as we just showed you, before the break, saw one of the worst massacres ever of Black Americans by White Americans 99 years ago.
We begin with a Congressional leader who has lived through some of the most consequential moments in American history and the struggle for racial justice in the South.
I spoke with House Majority Whip, James Clyburn, earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Congressman Clyburn, so much has happened in our country recently, and I'm just wondering what's going through your mind tonight, particularly as you reflect on Juneteenth, and prepare for whatever comes out of the President's rally in Tulsa, tomorrow.
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thanks so much for having me, Anderson.
One of the things that I've been thinking about, in the last several days, is Juneteenth, what it means, why we give life to it. Remember, the Emancipation Proclamation, the one that we all talk about, was effective January 1, 1863.
Granger - General Granger went into Galveston, Texas, June 19th, 1865. 30 months later, the slaves in Texas find out, they were free. It highlights the need to communicate.
And what I'm seeing now is the fact that the American people are beginning to communicate. We've been talking at each other. We've been talking past each other. All of a sudden, we seem to be talking with each other. The failure to communicate.
So, if anything that I'm going to remember about Juneteenth 2020 is the period of time when the American people finally began to talk with each other.
COOPER: In an interview with "The Wall Street Journal," the President said, and I quote, "I did something good. I made Juneteenth very famous."
As someone who has spent his life fighting for civil rights, I'm wondering what your reaction to that was.
CLYBURN: It's a joke. This President really needs to take stock. The people around him need to take stock. I've been studying and loving Juneteenth forever.
I used to participate in parades, Emancipation Day parades. That used to be the biggest parade in Tulsa, and South Carolina, in my lifetime. And so, we've been celebrating Emancipation Day, celebrating Juneteenth forever. And for him to say "Nobody knew who it was," he's calling me a "Nobody."
COOPER: The - I'm wondering what you make of, you know, this rally he's having tomorrow in Tulsa.
He sent out a tweet this morning, which seemingly, you know, warning protesters of, you know, he said "Any protesters, anarchists, agitators, looters or lowlifes who are going to Oklahoma please understand, you will not be treated like you have been in New York, Seattle, or Minneapolis. It will be a much different scene!"
What do you make of this - of this rally? And also, what does it mean, just looking for - over the summer for Democrats having rallies and - and the President having more rallies. Is that - is that safe? I mean is that - is that wise to do?
[21:05:00]
CLYBURN: Well, I don't think that the President is known for doing wise and honorable things. I think the President knows full well what he's doing. He seems to want conflict. He seems to thrive on conflict.
And I think that that's what I'm talking about, when I say to people in this Movement, "Don't play his game. Don't give into violence." That's his game.
COOPER: And, in terms of Coronavirus, where do you see the next few months going?
I mean, obviously, there's this, you know, I mean we're all sick of it. We - you know, who doesn't want to get back to, you know, a more social, active life, and a life, you know, being able to see loved ones and friends.
Do you worry about where we are right now, and where, you know, attitudes shifting so much about staying at home, or social distancing, wearing masks that - that are you optimistic of where we're heading?
CLYBURN: I'm hopeful. I'm very hopeful.
The fact of the matter is wearing masks ought to be something that all of us practice and celebrate. To have the leader of this country making a mockery of wearing masks, that's what I'm talking about. That's not leadership. That's showmanship. That is not what we need.
We need for leaders to lead by a precept and example. He gives the precept, wearing a mask, but he won't set the example. That, to me, is not leadership.
COOPER: Congressman Clyburn, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
CLYBURN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: More now on the record-setting number of new Coronavirus cases in Oklahoma, and elsewhere, even as the President says the disease is fading away, or dying out, as he said, and just hours away from his rally in the middle of a hot zone.
Joining us is Dr. Craig Spencer, Director of Global Health in Emergency Medicine at the New York-Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center.
Dr. Spencer, thanks for being with us again.
The list of bad ideas during a pandemic, you know, on that list, where does attending an indoor rally with, you know, nearly 20,000 people in a State with increased infections stand, and - and not everyone being forced to wear masks?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER, DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL MEDICINE, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, from a public health standpoint, it's an absolutely horrible idea. There's no way you could convince me or, for that matter, any public health professional to step inside the doors of that arena tomorrow night.
Look, the fact of the matter is that this is not a necessary gathering.
We're in the middle of a pandemic, at a time, at which, we have an increasing number of cases on a daily basis. We still have nearly a thousand Americans dying. We have 4 percent of the global population and 25 percent of the deaths and cases around the world.
What we're seeing is just another attempt to lull us into complacency, to make us think that a baseline of 20,000 cases per day, 25,000 cases per day is OK, and we can get back to some type of normal life, attending rallies, doing things that we were doing before.
The fact is that you're going to have people coming from all over the country to attend this rally. There will undoubtedly be people who come with the virus, and a lot of people who leave with the virus.
They will go back to their homes, they will infect their families, and we will continue this pandemic that has hit the U.S. disproportionately hard because we weren't prepared, and the way we responded was an abject failure.
COOPER: You know, I'm sure there are some people who are watching, maybe some who are going to this rally, who would argue, "Well look, you know, bad things happen to people all the time, and people die of a variety of things. And, you know, there's only so much you can do. And, you know, maybe this is an acceptable toll."
Is it likely - I mean, are hospitals going to - you know, in New York, there was the concern that hospitals were going to be overwhelmed, and that the death toll was going to skyrocket even more because just hospitals couldn't keep up?
Is that still a concern, I mean, in places where that haven't seen, you know, a peak yet?
SPENCER: Absolutely. Look, this virus is going to continue to roll around this country. We're seeing hotspots today in Arizona, Florida, Texas, more cases in
California. In the past few days, eight States, or nine States, have recorded a record high number of cases. And we are seeing hospitalizations increase in places like Texas.
It is only a matter of time before the number of deaths increase and before we have a worsening pandemic here in this country. This virus cannot infect you if it cannot find you. It will find people in Tulsa tomorrow. It will follow them home.
And yes, again, it's Arizona today. It's Florida today. It's Texas today. Next week, it could be Ohio or it could be North Dakota.
If we don't take the right measures, to prevent the spread, wearing a mask, washing our hands, social distancing, this virus will continue to infect us, in a disproportionate way, more so than it has really any other place in the face of this Earth.
[21:10:00]
COOPER: Yes. Dr. Craig Spencer, I appreciate your time. Thank you. Just ahead--
SPENCER: Thanks to you.
COOPER: --we remembered Juneteenth. We'll also look at the politics of Black Lives Matter and why the Vice President can't say those three words. We'll explain when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: As we mentioned earlier, today is Juneteenth.
And as many across the country remember the emancipation of slaves in 1865, of enslaved men, women and children, President Trump and the White House have instead reminded people why he polled so poorly with Black Americans.
First, the President told "The Wall Street Journal" this week, he'd never heard of Juneteenth. His Press Secretary tried to deny that fact today, even though he definitely did say it.
Trump then lumped together protesters with "Looters and lowlifes" on Twitter, and suggested they could be treated roughly, if they protest at his rally tomorrow in Tulsa, which is the site of a sickening massacre of Black Americans, almost a century ago.
And the Vice President repeatedly refused to say "Black lives matter" only that "All lives matter." He also told an ABC affiliate in Philadelphia that Juneteenth is a day when we celebrate that all are equal.
Joining me now are W. Kamau Bell, Host of CNN's United Shades of America, and Gloria Browne-Marshall, a Constitutional Law professor, at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, and Author of "Race, Law, and American Society: 1607-Present." [21:15:00]
Kamau, good to see you. The fact that the Vice President of the United States won't say "Black lives matter" and not only that, went on to - to say that "All lives matter" and that America from its very inception has embraced the notion that all people are created equal.
W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST, UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA: Whoo! I mean, Anderson, it is super-depressing.
Major corporations are tweeting out "Black lives matter." Starbucks isn't afraid of saying "Black lives matter," and they want everybody to hold a Starbucks, no matter what Party you vote for.
And yet, the guy that was supposed to line up behind to vote Trump out is afraid to say it, and said the thing that everybody who knows what "Black lives matter" means knows the exact opposite of "Black lives matter," which is "All lives matter."
And yet, they're going to be - people are going to be mad at me on Twitter right now, because I'm not pledging allegiance to Joe Biden.
COOPER: Well, do you - and why - why are you not - I mean, what are you - what are you hoping for this election?
BELL: I mean I'm hoping more from the Movement of this country than I'm hoping for the election.
I don't think - I mean, I certainly do not want Trump to be the President again. Let me make that a 1,000 percent clear. But I don't think that even if Biden is elected that that somehow is some sort of magic wand that waves over the country.
The Movement of people right now, in the country, and the Black-led Movement to push forward the Black agenda of like "Hear us, support us, give us our rights, and freedom, and equality," that's the thing that is going to push this country forward.
So, you know, like today, Trump has made a mess of Juneteenth. But activists have taken that mess and turned it into energy for the Movement.
COOPER: Professor Browne-Marshall, I'm wondering where you see the - the energy of what we have seen in the streets, and the enormous outpouring, and the enormous focus, and the continued outpouring, where you see that going in the months ahead?
I mean, obviously, you know, Democrats hope to try to harness it, and capture it, and, you know, have people turn up, get people registered, and - who aren't, who may not be, and turn up. But, as Kamau says it, it's - this is beyond just, you know, an election.
GLORIA BROWNE-MARSHALL, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE, AUTHOR, "RACE, LAW, AND AMERICAN SOCIETY: 1607- PRESENT": This is an American Spring. We are in an American Spring. The same way we had an Arab Spring, a Prague Spring, this is an American Spring.
And you may not be able to hear it. But outside, in the streets, where I am, and in Manhattan, there are protesters, right now, and helicopters flying over. We need to understand that young people have been given a special dispensation, I guess, because the older people couldn't come out.
So, this American Spring is taking place, and there will be changes, no matter what. I just want other people to understand that Juneteenth is more than freedom of Slavery - freedom from Slavery, Black people having a jubilee.
Black people had rights back in 1865 that were not respected. So, this continuation of disrespecting African-American rights, until we have reform in criminal justice, policing, and the Prosecutor's Office, we're going to have protests like this.
And I hope they continue well beyond the election, if necessary, because this is more about the rights of African-Americans in this country, than any particular political election, especially this one coming up.
But it's got to be about more than Donald Trump. Donald Trump is anathema. He is someone who has poisoned the, what was already a feted pool of racism. He's made it even worse.
COOPER: Kamau, you know, interesting Professor Browne-Marshall mentions, you know, the Arab Spring. You know, I was in Tahrir Square. Those were exciting days. There was a lot of belief of actual change, and it didn't really turn out.
And I'm wondering, I saw you tweeted yesterday, "Just so we're clear, White people, firing Aunt Jemima & giving us Juneteenth off are not the frontlines of defeating White supremacy & dismantling structural & institutional racism. Better schools, a just criminal justice system, access to healthcare was more what we were thinking."
You know, this is a very large - it - this is not just, you know, I mean, do you worry that this may get derailed or that the energy dies out, or that, you know, corporations do their - you know, kind of make minor changes and then things revert back?
BELL: I mean, I think that, you know, I've said before, if there's a - if there's a vaccine that comes out tomorrow, I think a lot of this energy goes away, from the corporate level, and from White folks who don't have to be invested in this every day.
But I think the longer that the - that the COVID virus is around the more people have the time to focus on the inequities of this country.
So, I think the great thing about this Movement, to sort of join what the Professor's saying is that, the young people who are actually leading this Movement are actually interested in infrastructure, and really nerdy things like you don't - you don't come up with "Defund the police" because you don't pay attention to things. You know, it's not - it's not what N.W.A. said about the police. It's "Defund the police."
[21:20:00]
So, for me, the people who are (INAUDIBLE) this Movement, the Black Lives Matter Movement, and all the other Movements that are in line within, are actually interested in the infrastructure.
And I think if we look at like the Blue Wave that happened last - when the mid-term elections happened, I'm hoping that those people who were out in streets end up running for Office because that's how true change happens.
COOPER: W. Kamau Bell, Gloria Browne-Marshall, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
BROWNE-MARSHALL: Thank you.
COOPER: Kamau mentioned the election.
The President is banking on tomorrow night to try to reenergize his campaign. He says it's the start of his reelection campaign. His Administration has been rocked by a week of defeats, and nearly a month of controversies, rivaling any since his impeachment.
CNN's Van Jones decided to check back with some supporters of President Trump, who he met after they voted for him in 2016 to see how they view him now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL (voice-over): In the industrial heartland of Ohio--
JONES (on camera): How are you?
JONES (voice-over): --Scott Seitz is a lifelong Democrat who voted Republican for the first time in 2016. And along with his three sons, he helped to put Donald Trump in Office. Nearly four years ago, this is how he explained his vote.
JONES (on camera): There's two different ways to look at some of the - the things that he's said that really hurt a lot of people's feelings on a racial line. One is to say, "Well, if he said it, I like it, and I'm voting for him because of it." Why didn't it make you vote against him?
SCOTT SEITZ, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Because we hear it, and we crumble it up, and we throw it away, and doesn't allow us to make our general decisions on what we're going to do to provide for our family. We completely ignore that crap, that garbage, and we see what he has to provide for us outside of that.
JONES (voice-over): This is Scott today.
JONES (on camera): Do you think he's done a good job with this Protest Movement coming out of these police problems? SEITZ: Well, I think he handled it like an arrogant businessman that he is, showing lack of compassion for people.
And what he did, out in front of the church, and making those folks move with smoke bombs, and teargas, or whatever it was, just so he can get to that vista, and have that shot of that - him and holding that Bible up, that was about the last straw for a lot of folks.
JONES (voice-over): From Ohio to Michigan, which also helped to elect Trump, just before the President took Office, I met Leslie Curtis. He's a lifelong Republican, who voted for Obama in 2008, and Trump in 2016.
JONES (on camera): What did Obama do to disappoint you in the first term that you wouldn't vote for him again?
LESLIE CURTIS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, the disappointment came when he didn't address Black America. To me, his agenda was focused directly on the LGBT community, and immigration, and Obamacare.
Whenever you're the first Black anything, you have to put it out there on the line, and I don't feel that Obama did that.
JONES (voice-over): Today, Leslie approves of President Trump's handling of this crisis.
JONES (on camera): Is it your view that we've got a serious problem in terms of law enforcement and how they treat African-Americans, or do you think it's overblown? I mean, how do you see it?
CURTIS: I've had the - the opportunity to witness Black and White police officers abusing their power. So, I don't say that it's so much a systemic issue overall. But I think it's a bad cop issue.
Of course, what happened to George Floyd was a tragedy. It was - it was sad. As a Black man, it's hard to watch things like that, and not have some type of emotion about it.
And when you say it's systemic, it takes the responsibility away from the individual who committed the crime.
JONES (voice-over): Onto West Virginia, Coal Country. Just after President Trump took Office, I met Allen Lardieri. He is a proud veteran and a coal miner.
JONES (on camera): You've got people here hanging by a thread, and they're putting their faith in Donald Trump. They're down to nothing. Their - their jobs are gone.
ALLEN LARDIERI, TRUMP SUPPORTER: That's right.
JONES (on camera): Their pensions are gone. Their healthcare isn't there. They're trying to push that opioid away. They see a man who's supposed to be for them. Tell the President what - speak for them to this President. LARDIERI: Mr. President, you're the most unconventional candidate that's ever took this Office. In your own words, if you do not deliver, you're fired.
JONES (voice-over): Allen today.
JONES (on camera): What is your verdict? Has he delivered? Or is he fired?
LARDIERI: He's delivered as much as he's been allowed to deliver, we'll just say that much.
JONES (on camera): How do you think President Trump has handled the Protest Movement that's come up this summer?
LARDIERI: I think he's handled fine. I think what he's done has been proportionate.
(VIDEO - NEW YORK PROTESTERS CHANTING "WHAT WE WANT? JUSTICE!")
LARDIERI: And he said that he supports protests. What the President, and myself, and many others, do not support it was when somebody hijacks a lawful protest and turns it into some of the things that you've been seeing playing out at night.
JONES (voice-over): In November, Allen says he'll be voting for Trump.
Leslie?
[21:25:00]
JONES (on camera): Do you still support President Trump today?
CURTIS: Yes, of course I do.
JONES (voice-over): Even Scott?
JONES (on camera): If the election were held tomorrow, and it was Biden versus Trump, who do you vote for?
SEITZ: Trump.
JONES (on camera): You'd vote for Trump right now?
SEITZ: I dislike Biden that much and don't feel he's going to lead our country. I only support him about 10 percent. Trump's only about 25 percent.
JONES (voice-over): Three States, three voters, but one candidate, they all still support.
Van Jones, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Checking in with voters. Up next, one-on-one extended conversation with Trevor Noah. The Daily Show Host gives his take on race relations and policing in America from a pretty unique perspective, someone who grew up in Apartheid in South Africa.
