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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Trump Says Light Is Starting To Shine Despite More Than 64,000 New Cases Today; President Trump Says He Will Send Hundreds Of Federal Agents Into Major American Cities To Fight The Spread Of Lawlessness. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 22, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Standby. Thank you, Sunlen. I appreciate that very much.

And thank you all so much for joining us this evening. I'm Kate Bolduan. AC 360 with John Berman starts right now.

[20:00:14]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: The President did not once mention the single central fact of the coronavirus pandemic at his briefing tonight, the fact that almost 143,000 Americans have now died.

John Berman here in for Anderson -- nor did the President utter a single word about another fact. For the first time in weeks the nation's daily death toll surpassed a thousand and is on the brink of doing it again tonight, or that California today eclipsed New York in total cases with Texas about to do the same.

The President also made no mention of these new revised guidelines for reopening schools we were supposed to have seen by now, which are being rewritten don't forget, because the President considers the existing ones too tough.

What we did hear with parents and teachers and school administrators increasingly concerned about kids returning to classrooms were statements that could be wildly misleading about the risk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would like to see the schools open, open a hundred percent and we'll do it safely. We'll do it carefully. But when you look at the statistics I just read having to do with children and safety, they are very impressive.

They have strong immune systems.

QUESTION: But you would understand that the children who go to school then go back to home, they are with -- some live with their grandparents and there's a real risk. Would you understand if some schools --

TRUMP: They do say that they don't transmit very easily and a lot of people are saying they don't transmit and we're looking at that. We are studying, John, very hard, that particular subject, that they don't bring it home with them.

Now, they don't catch it easily. They don't bring it home easily. And if they do catch it, they get better fast. We're looking at that fact that is a fact and we're looking at that very strongly. We'll be reporting about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Keeping them honest, there's a new large, highly regarded study out just this week from South Korea C.D.C., the President might have mentioned, but did not. It shows that children ages 10 and up are just as good at transmitting the virus as adults. And if any of the experts Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, Dr. Redfield had been there, they might have been asked about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: I don't think we've really got an explanation yesterday on why the health experts are no longer joining you at these briefings. Can you explain why?

TRUMP: Because they're briefing me. I'm meeting them. I just spoke to Dr. Fauci. Dr. Birx is right outside. And they are giving me all of -- everything they know as of this point in time, and I'm giving the information to you and I think it's probably a very concise way of doing it.

It seems to be working out very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Very well perhaps for the President and that there's no trusted person sharing the podium to correct him when he strays from the science, and CNN has learned from a senior C.D.C. official that Dr. Birx's concerns about the science are precisely what held up the new school guidelines.

The President, also strayed from the science when he talked about a cure as though it were just around the corner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That would be great if we could go into the hospital and just cure people, and we're at a position where we're actually able to a certain extent with what we have right now. And we think in a very short period of time, we'll be able to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So keeping them honest, as nice as those grammatically mangled thoughts would be if true, there is no evidence they are, or as he says, no evidence, quote, "We are actually able to a certain extent with what we have right now, and we think in a very short period of time, we'll be able to do that." Nor is there any evidence at all to support the President's optimism on testing.

He pointed to the fact that 50 million tests have now been done in this country, but did not mention that people have to wait all day to get them and then wait up to two or in some cases, three weeks for results. That is, even if they qualify to get them.

Some states are now limiting who gets tested again, despite the President's claim months ago, that anyone who wants to get tested can. You don't have to believe us, take it from a Republican.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I just feel it's taken us a long, long, long time to get to a point where we have rapid testing, which we don't have yet; ample testing, which we don't have. Personal protective equipment that's still in short supply in certain places.

I mean, look at other nations. Look at Germany, the E.U., they had some tough times as we did, but they came out of them and we're still struggling in part because of lack of effective oversight of this process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: When asked by CNN's Manu Raju if he satisfied with the testing situation, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy, a doctor told Manu quote, "I don't think anybody is satisfied with it," except perhaps the man who can get tested whenever he wants, along with all the people around him.

Early on at the briefing, the President underscored how deadly this pandemic has been to American seniors in nursing homes and that much is true and it's a tragedy.

But then he went on to say something remarkable in light of what he had just said seconds before.

[20:05:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: From the beginning, we've made it our top priority to shelter our seniors. In early March, we announced guidelines, suspending all medically unnecessary visits to nursing homes, and prioritized resources for those facilities and we gave it a very strong priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Mr. President, with all due respect to the office and acknowledging there is blame to go around, if protecting seniors was a priority from the beginning, then why have so many seniors died?

If you're so on top of testing, why can't people get tested? If you're so gung ho about sending kids back to school, why isn't there a plan for deciding how to do it safely? And if as you said yesterday, you're working on a very, very powerful

national strategy to fight the disease that has taken more lives in this country than any place on Earth, where was it almost 143,000 Americans lives ago?

Perspective now from CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, also Kathleen Sebelius, the former Governor of Kansas who served as Health Secretary in the Obama administration. Secretary Sebelius, you know, the President delivered his second news conference in two nights. But we still were not presented with a coordinated Federal plan to beat the virus. We are nearly four million new cases, daily briefings from the President are one thing, but action is another.

So what do you make of what he is saying versus doing?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, FORMER SECRETARY OF HEALTH UNDER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Well, I had the feeling tonight, once again, that the President lives in an alternative universe. I'm not sure who is beaming up information to him, but it doesn't match any of the facts that I know.

As you say we just exceeded a thousand deaths yesterday. It's likely we'll do it again today. That is on the uptick. It's not a very good.

The Kaiser Family Foundation just documented that cases in hotspots states and nursing homes are once again on the rise at an alarming rate, increasing at about four times the case rate in non-hotspot states.

So once again nursing homes are vulnerable even with the tightest lockdown rules in the world. I keep hearing about lots of shortages of PPE in nursing homes, but they are not in good shape.

Parents are terrified about sending their kids to school with really no clear guidance, no clear information and on Mitch McConnell's desk is a package of resources for cities and states that they could use to hire additional cleaning crews, get additional spaces, hire additional personnel to accompany kids so that you could break them into smaller groups. None of that has happened.

And once again, the President declares we are doing a very good job. We have a cure around the corner. I can't imagine who is suggesting that is even a possibility or what in the world that means, so I'm really alarmed.

Finally he said in his press conference, John, that, you know, Mayor Lightfoot, he thinks really want troops to come into Chicago. And it reminded me of what he had just said about the health issues because I've listened to her several times. She clearly does not want troops.

I want to hear the scientists on this information, because nothing -- I'm glad you have Dr. Gupta on, but you know, the President is once again giving really dangerously false information to the American public.

BERMAN: We'll get to Chicago, I promise in a minute and also the issue of a cure. But Sanjay, speaking as a parent, I think we're more confused than anything else -- more confused than frightened and when you heard the President tonight say that he wants schools 100 percent open, but then go on to say that children have strong immune systems, they don't catch it easily. They don't bring it home easily.

There's this study out this week, which suggests something different. So where is the science?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this the study out of South Korea, I think is the one you're referencing, John and that was a good study. I mean, it has been a little bit of a hard issue to study for particularly young children because if you think about it, John, since sort of middle of March, the younger children have largely been at home. So they haven't been part of these huge studies, so we don't have a lot of data on that.

But in South Korea, when they looked at kids 10 and older, they found that they were harboring as much virus in their mouth and nose and transmitting as much virus as adults. He also said kids have stronger immune systems, actually, young kids and very older people, for example, are much more likely to get sick from the flu, because their immune systems are weaker, and that's always been the concern here.

It is true that that children are less likely to get very sick from this and it's still not entirely clear why. But this issue of them still having the virus and them being able to transmit is a significant one, and I think the one thing that is true that the science really bears out is if you live in a community where a lot of virus is spreading, you are much more likely to come in contact with people who have the virus and much more likely for when the schools reopen, to contribute to significant increases in spread.

[20:10:17]

GUPTA: I can just show you, John, you've seen this graph before, but we can show the Israel graph. What happens in certain places when schools start to reopen? You can get a sense that you suddenly have a significant uptick. This is what we're trying to avoid.

BERMAN: Sanjay, what about the cure? I imagine no one was more surprised than Dr. Anthony Fauci or Dr. Redfield at the C.D.C. to hear that we're on the verge of a cure.

GUPTA: I don't know what he's talking about. I mean, presumably he is talking about a vaccine. I mean, there's antibody therapies. We've done stories on that as well. There is optimism around the vaccine. We're not on the verge of it.

You know, it's just tough and it is why we do need to have these scientists there in the room, frankly. You know, I mean, there's stuff that has been said. You know, I think that having the briefing was a good idea because it reminds people we're in the middle of the worst public health disaster of our lifetime, and it's good to remind people of that, but sometimes things are said that are just wrong. Sometimes they're dangerous. And, sadly, they need to be fact checked real time. I think he was talking about the vaccine. There is optimism around the

vaccine. It's only -- we only have seen Phase 1 data. We got a ways to go.

BERMAN: Secretary Sebelius, on school guidance. How much longer do you think we can't wait at this point, given that schools are due to open in weeks?

SEBELIUS: Well, I don't know. I'm alarmed at a couple of things around the school guidance. C.D.C. put out guidance which has been identified by the President as being too tough and too complicated and basically it said, keep kids six feet apart. Do a lot of sanitation and cleaning issues. Wash your hands. Wear a mask.

I don't know how complicated that is. That's been the guidance all along. I'm alarmed that what may be happening as some kind of variation of that, which would really deviate from the science.

But clearly, schools, parents, teachers, grandparents need to know what's happening. And states -- I have -- you know, sitting here in the State of Kansas, unfortunately, our virus is back on an uptick, lots of counties. Thanks to the legislature, we're able to opt out of the masking requirement.

So we've seen now an uptick in virus and the Governor has just suggested that schools delay until Labor Day instead of mid-August. The School Board today voted four to four on a tie vote to allow counties to make that decision, but nobody knows what exactly the guidance will be, and we're talking about three and a half, four weeks from now where kids are supposed to be back in school as our virus count continues to go up. That's very dangerous in lots of parts of Kansas and lots of parts of the country.

BERMAN: Yes, something as benign as back to school shopping. I've had many parents ask me, should we be doing back to school shopping or could they even be going back to school?

Sanjay, a study that caught people's attention today, and I think needs more clarity has to do with immunity and the antibodies. This new study suggests that people with mild cases of COVID start to lose their immunity every 36 days, it gets cut in half, or maybe lose your antibodies every 36 days is a more accurate way of saying it. Explain.

GUPTA: Yes, I think that that is a more accurate way of explaining it. And there's been two studies, I'll explain that in a second. Two studies that came out of China and Italy earlier, which basically showed the same thing.

One is that the sicker you are, the more antibodies you make. That's not entirely surprising, but there was a significant difference in these studies between the sickest people and the people who had minimal or no symptoms in terms of the antibodies and then the study that showed, you know, your antibodies do start to wane every few weeks. They go down by a significant percentage.

What we don't know still, John is, does that mean you're also losing immunity? This is to your clarification. Antibodies are easy to measure. So we measure those and then we use those as a correlative for immunity and it's not a bad correlative, but it's not the perfect correlation either. Because, John, you know, if you think about it in this country, five, six months into things now, we have not really seen reinfection clusters, right?

If you really did lose immunity, two to three weeks after infection, we would start to see at least more than just anecdotal reports here and there of reinfections, we're not. I think there's other parts to the immune system that are harder to measure but important. T-cells, for example. T-cells at the core of the immune system, they can quickly ramp up antibody production in response to a virus. They can attack the virus in other ways as well.

So I think the jury is still out on this and I think that -- I get that it's alarming, but we're not seeing those reinfections, so I think people are immune still longer than we think. We don't know how long and how strong, but longer than just a few weeks.

[20:15:14]

BERMAN: I think that's so important to reiterate, and as of now, we haven't seen clear evidence of reinfection. And you would think we would have by now if it were going to be a mass issue.

Sanjay, as always, thank you. Secretary Sebelius, thank you very much to you.

SEBELIUS: Good to be with you.

BERMAN: So next, as the Secretary just mentioned, what the President said today about sending Federal forces into other American cities and what the founding D.H.S. Secretary has to say about how members of his agency are now being used. Tom Ridge joins us next.

Later, the hope for one or more vaccines by the end of the year. The plan the President announced today for manufacturing one of them and all the questions surrounding who gets it where and when.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: More breaking news tonight, President Trump says he will send hundreds of Federal agents into some major American cities to fight what he calls the spread of lawlessness, a crime wave, he says the mayors of those cities, Democrats have been unable to control.

[20:20:10]

BERMAN: Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot, who was the subject of several pointed remarks by the President at his news conference today has said she would quote, "welcome actual partnership, but we do not welcome dictatorship."

Likewise, "New York Times" opinion columnist Tom Friedman writes, quote, "Some Presidents when they get in trouble before an election tries to wag the dog by starting a war abroad. Donald Trump seems ready to wag the dog by starting a war at home. Be afraid, he might get his wish."

Many of those Federal agents are under the control of the Department of Homeland Security, which as you may recall, was created right after the attacks on September 11th.

I'm joined now by the first Secretary of that Cabinet Department, former gave Pennsylvania Governor, Tom Ridge. Secretary Ridge, it is always an honor to speak with you. Thanks so much for being with us.

Tom Friedman, in his op-ed continues to say that President Trump is part of this wag the dog effort, is taking a page out of the Middle East dictators' handbook by trying to turn the American people against each other and presenting him as the singular source of law and order. What do you make of that?

TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, I'm disappointed in my President, because it seems like it's a reality TV approach toward dealing with a very, very serious problem. And if they're serious about dealing with urban crime in Chicago or elsewhere, and we'll use Chicago since the President has identified that as the place with the surge.

Let's check this out, 200 officers and by the way, they're not his personal militia, but he is going to send in 200 officers, good men and women all, no doubt about that to work with 13,000 policemen and women in blue, good men and women no doubt it with a sudden surge. And they may have a few arrests. They may have a few imprisonments. But they're not going to sustain that commitment and nothing in his plan -- I'm not even sure they have a plan.

Now, they talked to the mayor, they talked to the Chief of Police and they talked to the U.S. Attorney, et cetera, et cetera and they'll leave in a couple of weeks and the lawlessness will reemerge. And they still haven't dealt with the social and the economic conditions that underpin the lawlessness.

So it's a very disappointing response to a serious problem. But it's typical of somebody who thinks reality TV is real.

BERMAN: You just used the phrase personal militia to describe what the President is trying to do here, and I've heard you say that before in regards to what he has done in Portland, with D.H.S. officers, what do you mean by that?

RIDGE: I mean that the men and women, not only D.H.S., but throughout the Federal law enforcement agencies, and there are many, many agencies who go to work every single day to try to provide safe and secure communities all around this country, but you cannot secure the country from inside the beltway.

So the best thing you can do is deploy these Federal agents, good men and women all, to work in conjunction, in cooperation with the state and local law enforcement. But you just don't pick up the phone and order them in any community. And I would dare say this, and rarely will I speak for Republicans or Democrats or anybody in elected office. I doubt if there's a Republican or Democrat today, Mayor or Governor that wouldn't contest the unilateral incursion of Federal agents without coordination with state and local law enforcement officials. I just don't think that would happen. Or should, by the way,

BERMAN: You said it would be a cold day in hell before you agree to that. So what's your advice? What's your advice to the governors and mayors where these troops are being sent?

RIDGE: Well, I think I'm going to take -- listen, I think the Mayor of Chicago has handled it beautifully. She said she wanted to be cautiously optimistic, it certainly was a very thoughtful and kind response in spite of the declarations from the White House, but I wanted to be cautiously optimistic, but the optimism will fade immediately if these agents don't sit down with local officials and let them help drive the process.

And that optimism will fade if they come in, make a few arrests have a video camera following them around door, they're doing their job, and they leave in a week or two.

So I think we ought to take words. We all want to be cautiously optimistic, but this is a serious problem. The involvement of several hundred agents is a good start. But they have to be sustained and it has to be coordinated with so many activities involving political and community leadership. And it doesn't sound to me like that's been all part of his plan. And that's why it's so disappointing.

It's a serious problem and the mayor would like to solve it and the Chief of Police would like to solve it. But the notion that you're going to send in 200 agents and suddenly it's going to disappear, well, there's a lot of words that we use for it, but it's just not going to happen.

BERMAN: Well, feel free to use them here, by the way, and as far as the coordination, it seems like the Acting Secretary Homeland Security Chad Wolf and by the way, he is the Acting Secretary. He has not been confirmed to this position nor has his Deputy either. There seems to be a lot of that going around. This is what he said.

[20:25:09]

BERMAN: He said, I don't need invitations by the state mayors or state governors to do our job. He seems to be openly defiant about doing it unilaterally.

RIDGE: Well, I've often wondered, as I look back at the -- and I consider it a privilege and opportunity to serve the President, and to serve my country as Secretary, but I'd like to think that in the -- one of the reasons that the President called me is that I had been a governor, as he had been and he knows that we need to solve problems at the state and local level, and that we're best when we coordinate our activity at all levels of government and that's what the mission was.

I mean, listen, that's what basically set the Joint Terrorism Taskforce, you've got the F.B.I. working with a state and local law enforcement. Some are better than others, but they have a coordinated plan. They meet on a regular basis. They set priorities and they move out in that direction.

The sudden surge and listen, I have some empathy for the Acting Secretary. I wish he was empowered as a Secretary. I wish the President would fill some of the upper level management vacancies, it would probably make his job easier.

While he may think he has the authority and legally, he might. He will not get and achieve the outcomes that I believe he wants and the President wants and the mayor wants, if you act unilaterally. It's just not going to happen and it never happens that way. You can't secure the country and certainly Chicago by 200 agents coming in, well-intentioned agents from the Federal government, not from outside the Beltway. You can't do it.

BERMAN: Secretary Tom Bridge, it's a pleasure to see you. Wonderful to see you doing well. Thanks so much for being with us.

RIDGE: Always a pleasure to be with you as well. Have a good evening.

BERMAN: Some more breaking news just ahead tonight. I'm going to speak with a Public Health Director for the City of Los Angeles on how coronavirus is quickly approaching heart disease as the top killer in that city.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:00]

BERMAN: We have breaking news report out of Los Angeles, while President Trump today says the response to the virus is quote, working out, unquote. The public health director of Los Angeles says the exact opposite.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA FERRER, DIRECTOR, L.A. CO DEPT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: COVID-19 is on track to claim more lives in L.A. County than any disease except coronary heart disease. It's killing more people than Alzheimer's disease, other kinds of heart disease, stroke and COPD.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: L.A. whose mayor is considering a second lockdown is a major hotspot in California, which now has more total cases than any state in the nation that we should point out on a per capita basis are far behind states including New York. Nevertheless, California State added almost 13,000 new cases.

Joining us now, Los Angeles' public health director, Dr. Barbara Ferrer. Doctor, thank you so much for being with us.

Coronavirus now set to become one of the leading causes of death in Los Angeles County. How concerned are you the situation is deteriorating? FERRER: And thanks so much, John. And of course, we're extraordinarily concerned our data for the past two weeks says, really been moving us in the wrong direction. We've had about 2,200 people in the hospital in the last four days straight. That's almost double what it was about six weeks ago. Our case numbers every day, new cases of COVID-19 are topping 3,000. And of course, our positivity rate has also checked us, you know, really ramped up a bit and now it's about 10% of everyone tested. So yes, we're concerned.

I do want to know that we've taken actions over the past few weeks that we're hoping we'll start seeing something different in the weeks ahead, because, you know, it's the actions we took a few weeks ago that are resulting in the outcomes we're seeing today. We've closed down many of our businesses that were operating indoors and asked them to move their operations outdoors. Our bars are closed here, restaurants are only open for in person dining, if they can do that outside. And we've asked businesses to really make sure they're adhering to the directives that we have in our health officer orders about how they can offer a safe environment for all of their workers.

You know, we're going to beef up enforcement of those directives and compliance by businesses. But we're also pleading as I think so many other counties are with the people who live here and who work here to do their part. And I'd like to say at this point, you know, you're either part of the solution and you're protecting others, or you actually end up being part of the problem.

BERMAN: Many of these measures that you just mentioned have been in place now for a few weeks since California started seeing this rise in new cases again. So you're already a few weeks in to some of these stricter measures. The Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, on CNN, this weekend said that the county is on the brink of shutting down. So why wait at this point?

FERRER: I don't think we have any indicators right now. That would lead us in the direction of shutting down for the county. Again, I want to know --

BERMAN: What would those indicators be?

FERRER: Overwhelming our healthcare system, we're getting close to overwhelming our health care system. You know, we have ample capacity in our hospitals. Still, we obviously can't continue to accelerate the daily hospitalizations and maintain capacity in the hospitals. But right now, we're not overwhelming our hospitals. We're not even close in terms of that capacity.

So we do think that the steps that people are taking today will hopefully lead us to a place where we start slowing the spread again. And I would say although we did some things three weeks ago, we did a lot more things about 10 days ago, and we'll need to wait another week or two to see what the impact of those actions are on getting us back to slowing the spread.

[20:35:14]

BERMAN: As you sit here tonight with us, is there any sign that things are slowing down?

FERRER: You know, our positivity rate is not increasing. And I think that's a really important indicator for us. You know, we report on the cumulative positivity rate, which is closer to 10%. But the daily positivity rate, much more sensitive number is back down to 8.5%. And it's been about 8.5% for the last few days. If that holds steady or continues to decline, which is what we'd like it to do, it will indicate that we're having a little bit less community transmission. Those are the kinds of numbers we'd like to see is any indication that we're slowing the spread.

BERMAN I think we'd all like to see that and we certainly hope it happens. Dr. Barbara Ferrer, thank you so much for being with us.

FERRER: Oh, thank you for having me. Good evening.

BERMAN: Just ahead. The big deal the President mentioned on getting a future vaccine to the American people, but when they're ready, can this administration or possibly a next deliver. And who will get the vaccine first? A lot to cover when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:39:59]

BERMAN: The President open his briefing with it tonight, the Department of Health and Human Services agreement with the drugmaker Pfizer to produce 100 million doses of vaccine pending approval with the option of 500 million more. In a moment we'll talk with a leading authority on the ethical question surrounding the introduction of any new vaccine.

First, CNN's Sara Murray on how an administration with much approve plans to make it all work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After bungling everything from testing to personal protective equipment, the Trump administration is aiming to prove it can roll out a coronavirus vaccine to millions of Americans as soon as one is ready.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Operation Warp Speed.

MURRAY (voice-over): The debate is already underway over who should get the first doses.

FRANCIS COLLINS, NIH DIRECTOR: I think that people are a little uneasy about the government calling the shots here.

MURRAY (voice-over): To reassure a skeptical public this decision will be a political, the NIH Director called the National Academy of Medicine, an esteemed non governmental organization and asked them to advise who should be first in life.

A second group of CDC advisors are also asking who counts as an essential worker should race and ethnicity factor in. And where do teachers fall on the priority list?

ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: But the clearly the vulnerable going to be, if not the top priority one of the top priorities.

MURRAY (voice-over): The Trump administration is tapping top health officials and industry experts to lead vaccine plans rather than politicians. But the administration's vaccine effort Operation Warp Speed is shrouded in secrecy.

MATT HEPBURN, OPERATION WARP SPEED: Certainly asked for both your latitude a little bit in terms of my lack of ability to provide a lot of specifics about what we're doing.

MURRAY (voice-over): Vaccine developers already have contracts with the government to stockpile their products and the administration hopes to have 300 million doses available early next year. A timeline vaccine experts believe is overly optimistic.

VIJAY SAMANT, VACCINE EXPERT: This is a big task even if you have a vaccine. Getting these people vaccinated is a humongous death, humongous deaths, because you need to convince people.

MURRAY (voice-over): The distribution alone is a monumental challenge.

ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY, HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES: We're right at the beginning of Operation Warp Speed work to lock down fill finish capacity as well as syringes and needles and glassware. So, we've secured that to be able to ensure that we'll be able to vaccinate the American people.

MURRAY (voice-over): The federal government has shelled out hundreds of millions of dollars to companies like Corning for glass files needed to transport a vaccine.

BRENDAN MOSHER, CORNING INCORPORATED: The U.S. has kind of set a bar, glass won't be the critical bottleneck, and there'll be plenty to go around. At the point a vaccine is ready.

MURRAY (voice-over): Hundreds of millions of syringes are on order too, from companies like BD, though contracts and industry experts suggest the government may come up short.

ELIZABETH WOODY, BECKTON, DICKINSON AND COMPANY: It is I think, the beginning of the process, the U.S. government is preparing for two shots of the vaccine. And so, you know, assuming a population of approximately 350 million people we're looking at, you know, a total of 750 million, or excuse me 700 million syringes, at least.

MURRAY (voice-over): Once the vaccine is available, it could take a year to inoculate enough Americans to slow the spread. And that's if Americans agreed to get the vaccine at all. Safety concerns, politics and fears among minority communities that they may be exploited or left out, are all contributing to Americans hesitation.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BERMAN: And Sara Murray joins us now. Sara, you've reached out to the administration on this. What do they say and how do they plan to inform the American people once the vaccine becomes available?

MURRAY: That's right. I talked to a senior administration official earlier at HHS, and they said, look, they know they have a transparency problem. They know they need to win over the American public and they're planning this big PR campaign. It's going to feature a number of the doctors who were used to seeing if those taskforce meetings like Dr. Fauci, Dr. Redfield and the Surgeon General to try to talk to Americans directly about coronavirus issues including a future vaccine.

BERMAN: Sara Murray, terrific report. Thanks so much for being with us.

Joining us now Art Caplan, Director of Medical Ethics at New York University's Langone Medical Center. And Art, this really is one of the great questions surrounding medicine. Once there is a viable vaccine, how is it decided who gets it first?

ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIRECTOR, NYU LANGONE MEDICAL CENTER: Well it's a usually important question. Remember, nothing ever appears at once if you're manufacturing drugs or vaccines, so it's going to come out gradually, we'll see 10 million, 20 million, 30 million, 50 million doses released. So here's how I think people are thinking about this or ought to think about it. One is, who is it that's likely to be harmed? So that risk group is a group that we really have to reach out first to, that could be people working in nursing homes, people who are residents in nursing homes, first responders, healthcare workers, we keep hearing that there are big outbreaks of meat plant areas, food handling, prisons. So those are populations that we know or extreme risks.

But let me also say, John, if you try to get after people who are extreme risk, you also have to realize that what was true that produced FDA approval, in terms of it worked in 30,000 people doesn't mean it's going to work for a nursing home resident who's older, maybe 75, 80, 85 years old, his immune system is weaker. So we're going to not only have to wonder who goes first, but we're going to have to study it to make sure we know that it's working.

[20:45:15]

BERMAN: That's how we decide who goes first. Who decides?

CAPLAN: Well, right now, it's not clear who decides. We have, as was mentioned in the earlier report, National Academy of Medicine, most people have not heard of that a group of esteem scientists. I think what we need is a national commission, made up of interest groups, people can look at it and say, there's someone from a stakeholder, they're nurses, teachers, people from minority communities, we need a credible body because the vaccine resistance doubts and fears about any new vaccine, they're not trivial. Weirdly, we argue at one end, who's going first. And then on the other hand, there's going to be I think, a significant number of people if they don't trust who's making the decisions, you're going to say you go first, I'll wait a few months and see how it works out.

BERMAN: Then there's the issue of the anti-Vaxx community in the United States, which is loud and organized, maybe disproportionately loud and organized. What is the government's role to get the vaccine to places where and people where they may be reluctant?

CAPLAN: Well, look, there's a couple of messages that we need to hear. The President keeps talking about warp speed. We need to hear warp speed to a safe vaccine, the word safety and better be there. No shortcuts on evidence, no rushing the vaccine through absolutely unacceptable. We also know that people trust their doctors, their pediatricians, they have to come on board, be educated, understand the facts. They are key salespeople to go out there and get the public to go along. And I think we even have to start asking what's up on social media. We have -- are we got to let messaging go up that is deceitful. That is just fear mongering that said, based on any facts, you can get a pretty effective anti vaccine campaign going with a lot of nonsense. You've seen it in the past on social media.

BERMAN: Art Caplan, thanks so much for being with us. It's a really interesting discussion and worth having now, before we get the vaccine, which hopefully will come soon. Thanks so much.

CAPLAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Just ahead, a lingering mystery from the President's returned to the podium. Why give warm wishes to a former Jeffrey Epstein associate charged with sex trafficking related offenses when you're months away from a reelection. Details when we return.

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[20:51:48]

BERMAN: A big unanswered question tonight. Why did President Trump give his warm regards to a former associate of Jeffrey Epstein charged with sex trafficking related crimes? The President's kind words for Ghislaine Maxwell was a stunner during Monday's news conference, particularly as it reminds people of the President's apparent friendship with both individuals just months before an election. CNN's Pamela Brown has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump's returned to the briefing room took an unexpected turn with his response to a question about Ghislaine Maxwell, arrested earlier this month on multiple charges related to sexual abuse of underage girls by her longtime companion, convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. She has pleaded not guilty.

TRUMP: I haven't really been following it too much. I just wish her well frankly.

BROWN (voice-over): The warm wishes for Maxwell are bringing renewed scrutiny to Trump's relationship with her and Epstein, who government officials say died by suicide in his jail cell last year after being charged with sex trafficking. Some Republican lawmakers reacted to Trump's comments on Twitter saying, this is unacceptably obtuse for a woman accused of the most morally depraved of crimes and she is despicable and he needs to say that.

TRUMP: I've met her numerous times over the years, especially since I lived in Palm Beach and I guess they lived in Palm Beach. But I wish her well, whatever it is.

BROWN (voice-over): Trump says he's known Epstein since the late '80s. And pictures from the '90s show the president with Maxwell, who became Epstein's girlfriend, associate and allegedly his madam. One picture shows Trump with Maxwell in 1997. Then again in early 2000, at Trump's Palm Beach property, Mar-a-Lago with his wife Melania and Epstein. Another picture shows Trump with Maxwell that same year at a New York Fashion Show, and then again with model Naomi Campbell.

Epstein's one time business partner, Steven Hoffenberg, who spent 18 years in jail for a Ponzi scheme, told CNN today, there's no dispute they knew each other well, adding he liked her and she liked him.

In a 2002 interview with New York Magazine. Trump showered praise on Epstein calling him a quote, terrific guy and saying, he's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. After Epstein as arrested last year, Trump had a different tune, claiming he kicked Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago years before.

TRUMP: I mean he was a fixture in Palm Beach. I had a falling out with him a long time ago. I don't think I've spoken to him for 15 years. I wasn't a fan.

BROWN (voice-over): Prosecutors say Maxwell went into hiding over the last year as more victims came forward, alleging she lured them in and groom them to be sexually abused by Epstein. Alleged victim Virginia Giuffre has claimed Maxwell recruited her in 1999 while she was a locker room attendant at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, though she never alleged any wrongdoing by the President.

Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Pamela.

Just ahead, we remember those we've lost to the virus including a brother and sister in their early '20s.

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[20:58:30]

BERMAN: Tonight, we remember more lives lost to coronavirus. Byron and Mychaela Hicks, a brother and sister from Lauderhill, Florida. They take a trip together to Orlando and soon after they came home, Byron started feeling ill. One morning he woke up with trouble breathing. He was rushed to the hospital, but he died soon after that. His sister Mychaela started feeling symptoms a few days after her brother passed. It started with a headache and a fever but then her kidney and liver began to fail. She passed away just 11 days after her brother. Their cousin says, Mychaela was the light of the family, her smile would always light up the room. Byron was the funny one, the goofball of the family. They both had underlying conditions according to their mother, Byron Hicks was 20 years old and Mychaela 23 years old.

Katherine Hoffman was known as Kitty she was considered a trailblazer. She worked as a chemistry professor at Florida State University at a time when there weren't a lot of women in high profile positions in science. She taught at the university for nearly 40 years and authored textbooks and articles throughout her tenure. Before that she was a student at the same university. After she graduated, she was accepted to Duke University's Medical School. Back then, Duke required female medical students to remain single. But Kitty didn't want to be told what to do and she instead married her husband Hank Hoffman, in charge of teaching. They were married for 58 years before he died, and they had a son together.

Kitty was known as a strong woman. Friends and colleagues say she was witty, fiercely intelligent and lived a long and vibrant life. Kitty Hoffman was 105 years old. They all have their memories be a blessing.

[21:00:06]

The news continues, so I now hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIMETIME".