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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Trump Top Adviser, Stephen Miller Tests Positive For COVID-19; Michelle Obama's Closing Argument For Joe Biden; Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA) Preview's V.P. Debate; Biden Promises To Unite Country During Gettysburg Speech; White House Under Fire For COVID Response One Night Before VP Debate. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 06, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Our special coverage begins at seven o'clock Eastern tomorrow night.

Thanks for joining us. "AC360" with Anderson begins now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Tonight, for the second time, in just a few days, another top aide to the President has tested positive for the coronavirus.

Thursday, it was Hope Hicks; yesterday, Kayleigh McEnany, the White House spokesperson. This time it's Stephen Miller, senior adviser and author of many of the President's speeches.

We got word of it late this evening and we'll have live reporting momentarily with the latest on his diagnosis and his condition.

Now, that breaking news caps a long day of pretty stunning developments. Right now, most members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff including the Chairman, General Mark Milley are quarantining after the Vice Commandant to the Coast Guard tested positive for COVID. He attended an event to the White House on Monday.

Late today, we learned that a fourth member of the White House press operation has been infected. That's in addition to Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany. This came shortly after we learned that a service member assigned to support the President in both the Oval Office and the Executive Residence has also contracted COVID, as have several housekeepers in the residence according to "The New York Times" Maggie Haberman.

Last night, folks in the White House were said to be freaking out: that was a term was used. It does not appear that there has been a robust effort of contact tracing for all those who may have come in contact with positive White House personnel.

Today, a Federal health official told CNN, the White House has declined a C.D.C. offer of contact tracing. Declined to offer the offer of experts in contact tracing by the C.D.C.? Just think about that. Why would the White House decline the C.D.C.'s expertise in this? What are they trying to hide?

Because even if the White House is now doing their own robust contact tracing, which there is not evidence of, it can't be very effective, because contact tracers do not have the critical information needed to accurately warn people and that's because the President refuses to let anyone reveal when he last tested negative.

And there are really two critical questions tonight: when did he last test negative? And when did he first test positive?

The President is trying to cover that up. That is a fact.

We know this because his own doctor has refused to give those details, citing HIPAA laws, laws designed to protect patient's privacy. But those laws can be waived when a patient is willing to have the information known. The President does not want you to know when he last tested negative, instead, he is making his doctor's cover it up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Can you tell us please, on testing -- can you tell us when he had his last negative test? Was it Thursday? Was it Wednesday? Do you remember when he had his last negative test?

DR. SEAN CONLEY, WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: I don't want to go backwards.

QUESTION: When was his last negative test and what was his viral load?

CONLEY: Everyone wants that.

QUESTION: Why is there hesitancy to say when the last negative was?

QUESTION: Did he have any abnormal tests? Any -- were any of his lab tests abnormal?

CONLEY: Again, HIPAA kind of precludes me from going into too much depth in things that, you know, I'm not liberty or doesn't wish to be discussed. At some future point, maybe. But today, sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The President does not want the truth out there. He could have told Conley, yeah, sure. Tell them when I last tested negative, of course. I mean, that's basic information.

This isn't some got-cha game reporters are playing, calling attention to it. Knowing the truth matters to anyone he might have put at risk and we are talking about potentially hundreds of people who he could have exposed and everyone close to those people.

It might also establish how he himself caught COVID, thereby exposing potential gaps in the alleged protection that he was supposedly under. Any President deserves protection, and if there is some gap in his, people should know about it.

Furthermore, if the President was not getting tested every day for COVID like the White House had previously indicated, or if the President had tested positive and advanced the debate on Tuesday, then voters should know because the recklessness that would indicate would be stunning.

But tonight, no one will answer those questions even as the virus cuts through the White House through both working and living quarters in what's supposed to be the people's house through senior level Washington, it cuts through the Pentagon. How long has the President, who almost never wears a mask and took it off when he returned from Walter Reed last night, how long has he been walking around with this? Possibly infecting others?

Did he stand on the debate stage with Joe Biden shouting in his direction, mocking him for wearing a mask while infected with COVID? Did he know it at the time?

Remember, he showed up late and he wasn't tested at the debate site. When was his last negative test?

So now the First Lady is infected and senior adviser, Hope Hicks; Campaign Chair, Bill Stepien; debate coach, Chris Christie; party chair, Ronna McDaniel, three Republican senators, President of Notre Dame and others, many of whom attended this Rose Garden event right there that you're looking at for Judge Amy Coney Barrett two weekends ago.

Contact tracing might establish who they caught the virus from, but contact tracing requires knowing when someone tested positive and when they did not.

That is how reckless this White House continues to be.

[20:05:10]

COOPER: The President lied to his favorite TV talking head, Sean Hannity. He said he was waiting on a test to find out his condition on Thursday night. According to the White House, he had already been tested after returning from that fundraising trip to New Jersey Thursday afternoon. But even that timeline, I mean, that's suspect, Hope Hicks was ill on the plane ride back on Air Force One from Minnesota Wednesday night after Trump's rally.

Shouldn't the President had been tested Wednesday night? Or Thursday morning at the latest? Reckless if he wasn't. Reckless if he was because he then exposed hundreds of people to COVID, wealthy donors in New Jersey. Have all those hundreds of donors been contacted to get tested?

Don't they deserve to know if you, the President, knew you were positive when you spoke in front of them without a mask? Don't you, the President, don't you owe it to them to give some peace of mind for their families? Apparently, the President doesn't think so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONLEY: HIPAA kind of precludes me from going into too much depth and things that, you know, I'm not liberty or doesn't wish to be discussed. At some future point maybe, but today, sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Keywords there, "doesn't wish to be discussed." The President doesn't wish those things to be discussed. That's what he is talking about when he is saying HIPAA. The president could clear this up anytime by answering the question himself or telling his doctor, yes, just go ahead. Tell them when my last negative test was. Sure.

But he has chosen instead to play strong man on the balcony. To what Jim Acosta referred to this as last night, "Covita" standing on the balcony. Don't cry for him, Bedminster, just go and get tested. Reckless. That is reckless.

Returning from Walter Reed last night, the first thing he did before going inside, coming into contact with people, take off his mask, stood there, posed for photographs wanting to try to project strength. Thumbs up.

He then got down to the business of acting as though the most important thing in the world about COVID-19 is that he himself beat it. He told Americans they should not fear the virus that has killed more than 210,000 friends, neighbors and loved ones. He said they should not let it dominate their lives.

This morning, he said it was no worse than the flu, which is a lie, not only because the coronavirus has killed more people in this country in this year alone and the flu has in the last five years combined. We also know it's a lie because he said so back in February to Bob Woodward.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: And so that's a very tricky one. That's a very delicate one. It's also more deadly than your -- you know, your -- even your strenuous flus.

You know, people don't realize, we lose 25,000 to 30,000 people a year here. Who would ever think that, right?

BOB WOODWARD, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I know. It's much forgotten.

TRUMP: It's pretty amazing. And then I say well, is that the same thing? This is more deadly. This is five per -- you know, this is five percent versus one percent and less than one percent. You know, so this is deadly stuff.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COOPER: When he said that back on the 7th of February, just 12 people had even contracted COVID-19 in the entire country. None had died then. But he knew back then about the danger or he had been told about it and that was in his head.

He said nothing, of course, publicly. Now with 210,000 Americans dead, another senior adviser infected, his top military advisers on lockdown and quarantine, the West Wing freaking out and anyone he has encountered lately, wondering if they too will get sick. The President once again is saying nothing except that is to boast about conquering a virus that just isn't listening, only spreading.

Our Jim Acosta joins us now from the White House, along with CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.

Jim, do we know when -- excuse me, when Stephen Miller tested positive and his movements over the last several days?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, he tested positive today. We have a statement from Stephen Miller about this and it really flows right into the timeline we've been talking about over the last several days, and I can just read you this quote from Stephen Miller.

It says, "Over the last five days I've been working remotely and self- isolating, testing negatively every day through yesterday. Today, I tested positive for COVID-19, and I'm in quarantine." That's the statement from Stephen Miller. But it just goes to how serious the situation is over here, Anderson, because you have, you know, a situation where people are testing negative for the coronavirus and then testing positive for the coronavirus.

And the White House has been relying on these rapid tests for so long, they -- you know, we all know we've been reporting on this for months now that they can sometimes be notoriously unreliable and that may be the case now and I can tell you, Anderson, right now standing in front of this White House, this is the work from home White House right now.

There are large sections of this White House that are just completely empty, almost like a haunted house, where you just don't find staffers, whereas as Dana Bash does know, you know, there are areas of this White House that are typically teeming with staffers, the press area and the comms areas of the West Wing are just almost totally empty except for maybe a couple of staffers and essentially what they're telling everybody right now is if you suspect you have symptoms, if you are worried about coming into the White House, stay home.

And so, you know, there are almost more members of the press than White House staffers here at this point.

[20:10:16]

COOPER: Dana, I mean, the White House continues to claim that they have been taking all the right precautions. Clearly, they haven't, and Stephen Miller is another example and they continue to be reckless.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They absolutely have not, and the thing is, is that people who have gone to the White House to see the President or for events are told by the medical staff at the White House that everybody is being tested.

And the assumption from people who go to the White House is that everybody includes the President of the United States, Anderson.

But if you just look at the members of the President's debate team, people -- the prep team who were working with him last week and through the weekend before he got sick. Look at that.

I mean, everybody from the president to Chris Christie to Kellyanne Conway, Bill Stepien, the President's campaign manager, Hope Hicks, now, Stephen Miller, are positive. The only two of people who are regularly sitting in that small room, the diplomatic, excuse me, the map room, inside the White House, who currently are negative, Rudy Giuliani and Jason Miller.

And as we have just heard from Jim, Stephen Miller was negative five times until he was positive today. So look, let's hope that the former mayor and Jason Miller remain negative. But based on what we have seen, it could change unfortunately.

COOPER: Jim, why will the White House still not answer the simple question and it's not the White House -- why won't the President allow his doctors or anyone at the White House to answer this simplest question, when did the President last test negative?

Because I mean, the most obvious reason would be, it would show A, that he had been positive far longer than they've already claimed, or it would show that he hasn't been tested every day at all, like the White House has been claiming and they have been endangering people for a lot longer period of time. Is there some other explanation?

ACOSTA: You know, there really is no other explanation, Anderson, besides, you know, the way you prefaced that question, which is the President is only allowing his doctors to reveal to the public what he wants people to know about.

And so I think that means, you can deduce from that that what we're not learning are things or items that the President does not want out there, and I can tell you from talking to my sources, there is a concern that they are just not telling the public all that needs to be told when it comes to the President's health.

You know, my understanding is from talking to my sources that there were still concerns about the President's health this morning, that there were some lingering health concerns from the night before, from his balcony moment when he -- you know, you could see that he was gasping for air, talked to a Trump adviser who said, wait a minute, you know, concealing the President's health is a tradition that goes back many decades. And this adviser essentially is saying, they are going to continue that tradition now.

COOPER: But I mean, Dana. So the President has a debate coming up and with the vice presidential debate is tomorrow, the President's debate with Joe Biden the following week, why would Joe Biden stand on a stage with the President when they are not disclosing things about his health that may impact anybody in that room or certainly Vice President Biden?

I mean, would the Vice President -- could the Biden campaign say, we will not debate unless we know when your last negative test was?

BASH: Absolutely. And it's hard to imagine that they won't do that given the fact that it is entirely possible that President Trump was positive and potentially highly contagious when he was standing, as you mentioned, at the beginning of the show, not that far away from Joe Biden, pointing at him, you know, rhetorically speaking and physically also, for 90 minutes straight.

And we kind of see the beginnings of these negotiations with tomorrow's debate, the vice presidential debate because Mike Pence has tested negative so far, Anderson, but still, he is refusing to have Plexiglas around him, whether that is symbolic or not medically sound or not, I think it's because he is trying to put a line in the sand to protect the President from having those options next week.

COOPER: Yes, the head of the Coronavirus Taskforce won't have a screen.

Jim Acosta, Dana Bash, thank you.

Perspective now from someone who served as White House Chief of Staff for President Clinton and chaired the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016, John Podesta joins us now.

Mr. Podesta, we know the President wants to make himself you know, look when he would turn strong, he is very afraid to look weak. If you look at what's happening in the White House right now, as we said senior adviser to the President, Stephen Miller now tested positive, apparently no contact tracing, staffers scared. The President is bent on ignoring science and orchestrating political theater for the cameras.

I mean, does any of that actually look strong?

[20:15:09]

JOHN PODESTA, FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR HILLARY CLINTON: Oh well look, I think we've gone from the farce of the return to the White House kind of Mussolini style up those steps to the tragedy that is befalling both the White House staff.

We have the Joint Chiefs, you know, in quarantine, but I think most damaging for the American people are the tweets of the President himself, telling them not to be afraid of coronavirus, telling them no worse than the flu.

When we have this new study from the University of Washington that said, if people would just mask publicly for the next three months, we could save 100,000 lives. Those are -- and the President is just completely flaunting that and putting, you know, literally hundreds of thousands of Americans at risk.

COOPER: Yes, if 95 -- right now, about -- according to that Washington study, about a half the country, a little less, I think 45 percent maybe of the country is wearing masks. They say if 95 percent of the country would actually just mask up, just wear masks, and you know, not go out but just wear masks and socially distance. As you said, it could save, you know, a hundred thousand or so lives.

As a former White House Chief of Staff, I mean, when you look at this White House, is there anyone in charge here?

PODESTA: Well, you know, Donald Trump is kind of running the White House. As for the Chief of Staff, the job I held, Mark Meadows, I think, his reaction, what has he been doing? He tried to suppress the new F.D.A. guidelines that were meant to create a safety regime around the potential for a vaccine. Finally, the F.D.A. kind of figured out a way around that by publishing as part of their meeting guidance, and then the White House finally relented.

He has not issued any guidance to his own staff. You have White House staff calling the press saying what's going on? Should I come in? Should I stay home? There's no order to wear masks in the White House except from Robert O'Brien, the National Security adviser to his staff which is almost as big as the White House staff, at least Robert O'Brien has at least given some instruction to his team.

You know, I think the military, they have a term for the way this matter has been handled. It is called dereliction of duty.

COOPER: I mean, if he was a CEO of a company, an actual company, not the sort of Potemkin company that he actually had. I mean, he would be removed by the Board of Directors because he has been telling employees.

I mean, he has been walking around without a mask, mocking employees, pressuring them not to wear masks. If you were running the Biden campaign right now, would you want Joe Biden your candidate to be on a stage with Donald Trump unless you had direct access to the latest of his health information and knowledge of, if he lied about being tested during the last debate?

PODESTA: Look, you know, I think it's going to be very hard to carry this out, and I know that Vice President Biden wanting to debate Donald Trump. I think the first debate proved why he wanted to debate Donald Trump.

Trump clearly lost that debate. The polls crashed on him following the debate. I mean, his antics were -- just turned people off. He lost ground with senior citizens.

Biden looked strong. He turned into the camera. His speech today at Gettysburg, calling us together is the kind of stuff that I think you want to project in a debate and you know, Trump's incapable of doing it. So to think, he wants to debate, but I think at this stage, you've got to ask yourself, is it safe for him to go out there and I would be doubtful about that.

You know, maybe there's a -- maybe you could have, you know, do one of those things like they do in the courtroom, put Trump in another room and Biden could be there with the Town Hall, so that the President doesn't infect the rest of the audience who are going to be with him in that Town Hall debate next week.

COOPER: John Podesta, appreciate you being with us. Thank you.

PODESTA: Thanks, Anderson. COOPER: Coming up next, a former C.D.C. Director on what is happening

to the agency and the professionals he served right when they are needed most.

And later, Michelle Obama's message to voters and how it might be received. We'll be joined by two of President Obama's former top advisers, David Axelrod and Valerie Jarrett.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:23:27]

COOPER: Tonight's breaking news, the presidential adviser, Stephen Miller now has COVID, only adds to the impression of a White House utterly unprepared for and completely unwilling to even face a pandemic inside its own walls, and even using its own experts at the C.D.C. to help trace how this happened and who else might be infected to warn them.

Joining us now is Dr. Richard Besser, former acting C.D.C. Director and currently President and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Dr. Besser, we led the program with news on Stephen Miller testing positive. As you watch this outbreak of COVID at the White House reveal itself, what are you thinking? I mean, obviously, we've known this administration has been reckless. It seems like the recklessness continues inside the walls of the White House toward their own people and it's only accelerating.

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING C.D.C. DIRECTOR: You know, Anderson, what I'm thinking is that this is a time to reset, and to say that we're going to be guided by the best public health advice. We're going to be telling people to wear masks, social distance and wash their hands and we're going to be approaching cases and a cluster of cases like we're seeing in the White House, like every state, like every local health department is trying to do and that's by doing very aggressive intensive contact tracing, and then ensuring that every single person who has been exposed has the ability to safely quarantine for 14 days.

That's how you ensure that one case doesn't lead to a small cluster of cases that doesn't lead to an outbreak. II trained at the C.D.C. as a disease detective and this is the kind of work that C.D.C. is so incredibly good at. This isn't a simple little outbreak or cluster related to a school. These are cases that are linked across many states, and will really take the kind of expertise that the C.D.C. could provide.

[20:25:16]

COOPER: So to do successful contact tracing, I assume you would have to know when the patient zero or the person who spread it, or the multiple people in this case, who potentially spread it, when they actually tested positive and when actually was the last negative test that they had, so you get a sense of where they on this day, positive or potentially positive, and therefore we have to warn all the people they came in contact with on this day? Without knowing those two things, can you really do effective contact tracing?

BESSER: Well, for every single person who has tested positive or has symptoms, you want to know when they first tested positive, when they first had symptoms, because as you know, as we've talked about all the time, you can be spreading this several days before you first have symptoms. So that information is critically important.

Then you would need to track where they've spent their time and where they have been in situations where they've been within six feet of somebody for 15 minutes. That's the C.D.C. definition of close contact. You want to look to see when was that indoor exposure? When was that outdoor exposure? Since we're learning more and more that the risk from those exposures will vary.

I would expect seeing that photo of the Rose Garden and knowing you know the amount of traffic that goes on in a place like the White House that there are probably hundreds of people that need to be tracked, that need to know whether they're at risk, and then the people who they live with need to know especially since you know when you get to that size, there are definitely going to be some people who will fall into high risk groups.

COOPER: I mean, is there any legitimate reason, you know, of why the White House would refuse an offer from the C.D.C. with all of their experts and experience to do contact tracing?

BESSER: Well, this is the kind of work that the C.D.C. is so incredibly skilled at. It's the kind of work that the C.D.C. provides relief around the globe for other countries when they are facing outbreaks, especially complex outbreaks.

This is the kind of work that local health departments do, but when a local health department is then facing an outbreak that may span many states, that's when C.D.C. is called in.

And one thing a lot of people don't realize is C.D.C. has to be invited. C.D.C. does not have the authority to go into a state to conduct an investigation. They're always there at the invitation of state government.

COOPER: Dr. Rick Bright, the former Pandemic Preparedness Chief who has moved to the N.I.H., abruptly resigned today. His attorney put out a statement saying Dr. Bright quote, " ... can no longer sit idly by and work for an administration that ignores scientific expertise, overrules public health guidance, and disrespects career scientists resulting in sickness and death of hundreds of thousands of Americans."

He went on to say, he'd been assigned no meaningful work since September 4th. I mean, I don't know if you know him, particularly. But I mean, how concerned are you about what is happening to science in this administration?

BESSER: Well, I'm very concerned about the mixed messaging from science and from politicians, and that we're not being guided by the best public health science, which has been shown in the states that are following that guidance to be quite effective.

I think anyone who is in a leadership position in government, and especially in a science position has to have a line in the sand that they're not willing to cross and that any scientist who will willingly go against the science, because it's being asked to occur for political reasons, really needs to look in the mirror and say, you know, why am I in this job? Is it really that important?

COOPER: Right. Dr. Besser, I appreciate your time. Thanks very much.

Up next, as the coronavirus continues to envelope the Trump administration, I will speak with Patti Davis, daughter of Nancy and Ronald Reagan about the stark differences between medical information between then and now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:32:25]

COOPER: With the breaking news of one of President Trump's top aides being diagnosed with coronavirus, Stephen Miller it only highlights the seriousness of the health crisis surrounding the president. Not since the 1980s when President Reagan was shot has there been such an atmosphere in an administer -- any administration, Patti Davis, President Reagan's daughter wrote this for "The Washington Post" and an op-ed piece.

She wrote, when you're president privacy is not an option, including and maybe especially privacy about your health. She said that's the lesson my father's administration understood and the President Trump and his advisors still need to learn.

She concluded regardless of what any of us think of the man holding the highest office in the land, his health, his fitness, his ability to be present and accounted for has everything to do with our safety as a nation. It has to do with our trust in the government and that trust is being eroded at the worst possible time.

Patti Davis joins me now. Patti, thank you so much for being with us. I'm wondering when, you know, we've heard the President's doctor, you know, cite HIPAA and let slip that essentially it's President Trump who's not allowing him to say not only just, you know, what his lung CT scan show, clearly there must be some problem with them, because that's the one of the things he doesn't want to allow. He hasn't allowed the doctor talking about, but also most notably when your last negative test was and when you first tested positive.

PATTI DAVIS, DAUGTHER OF PRESIDENT REAGAN: Well, that's what HIPAA regulations are they give the patient control over what the doctor can tell other people. That's -- that is what the regulation is. But, you know, being President of the United States is a unique position. And the American people deserve to know what is going on with them.

That said, yes, of course there are HIPAA regulations. There is doctor-patient confidentiality. I don't think anybody expects the President to give every intimate private detail of their health to the people, but excuse me, are his lungs scarred? Or has he been on oxygen does not fall under that heading. You know, we need to know what the basic health is of the man who is sitting in the White House.

And as I pointed out in my Washington Post piece, it was not a perfect story when my father got shot, they made some mistakes. They got some information wrong. But a really important difference is that there was utter panic that day. It took if memory serves less than 15 seconds for John Hinckley's bullets to mow down four people and put the money in paralysis versus a virus that has been a worldwide pandemic for eight months, no one can save the state of shock right now. You know?

[20:35:11]

COOPER: Yes.

DAVIS: So, they've had plenty of time to prepare for this. So there is that difference. And I don't remember hearing any outcry when my father was shot, that we're not getting all the information or we're not being told the truth, even in the midst of panic. They -- that White House knew that they needed to honor and respect the rights of the American people to know what was going on with the President of the United States.

COOPER: It's also one thing for, you know, it's understandable a White House want to put the best face on it and particularly, they're in the midst of a reelection campaign. It's another thing to have the doctors be the one or the President's doctor really just he's the only one really saying this kind of stuff, putting a political spin and a happy face on information. You know, that that's sort of what's so unusual that it's not the Chief of Staff giving this briefing. It's the doctor who's only -- you know, with cherry picked information.

You, you wrote about after dad was shot, I understand that, that he changed some of his activities. I mean, because the other piece of this is the concern, and the lack of seeming concern that the President -- this president seems to have about who he may be infecting currently, who he may have infected, helping contact tracers be able to give information to people, your dad actually changed some of his activities after he was shot. Can you tell me about that?

DAVIS: Yes, I didn't know that when I wrote The Washington Post piece. My brother Michael told me yesterday about a conversation that he and our father had a while after he was shot. And he told Michael, that he wasn't going to attend church services anymore. Because he didn't want to put the other attendees at risk in case there was another assassination attempt on him.

And then he said, that he would never forget, looking out through the rear view, the rear window of the car that day as it sped away, seeing people in pools of blood from bullets that were meant for him.

COOPER: Wow.

DAVIS: So, you know, whatever anyone might think of my father's politics or policies, that's who the man was. And by the way, that's what leadership is. True leadership is caring for the people who have been entrusted you to lead them. And, you know, leaders put the people's welfare sometimes at the expensive things that they want to do in their lives.

COOPER: I remember as a child meeting the Secret Service agent, one of them who was shot that day, who later became on Nancy Reagan's security detail, I believe, and it just I was thinking about, you know, the Secret Service and how they care for the first family. And I'm wondering, when you saw, you know, the rod that President took that vehicle with, you know, two Secret Service agents in the front, in a hermetically sealed vehicle that's designed to get through, you know, chemical attacks, what did you think?

DAVIS: Well, I want to tell you something, because it's been reported everywhere that there were two the two agents in the front. If you look carefully, I am 90 percent sure. There was a third agent in the back of the car facing out, facing out, you know, to the rear of the of the carcass, how they typically do things in case somebody's coming up from behind the car, right.

So I think it's even worse than that two agents, there were four people in that car, with the windows up, one of whom was incredibly contagious and only wearing a cloth mask. It's just -- it's shameful I do think of those agents. And, you know, I was such a brat with a secret service agent because I hated being followed, but they're really good people.

And, you know, they have to take a bullet for their protectee and now I suppose have to get a virus for their for their protectee who's not watching out for them. And the other people like I really think about a lot are the people who work in the -- on the third floor of the White House in the living quarters.

These are people who, some of whom, you know, I've been there for years, decades, even. And they can socially distance, they're doing their laundry, they're making their beds, they're serving them food, and I think we can all assume that Donald Trump is not walking around the living quarters, wearing a mask.

COOPER: Yes. Patti Davis, the piece in the Washington Post. I encourage people to read it. Thank you so much for being with us tonight.

DAVIS: Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

COOPER: Take care. Former First Lady Michelle Obama posted a 24-minute video today urging people to vote for Joe Biden and assailing President Trump. Coming up. I'll talk with two former key associates Mrs. Obama about what she said, what kind of closing arguments she delivered.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:43:00]

COOPER: With a month ago until the election, former First Lady Michelle Obama today posted a campaign style video and what amounted to her final sales pitch. She listed the president urged people to vote for Biden. Here's an excerpt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FMR FIRST LADY OF UNITED STATES: Let's be honest, right now our country is in chaos, because of a president who isn't up to the job. And if we want to regain any kind of stability, we've got to ensure that every eligible voter is informed and engaged in the selection.

As a black woman who has like the overwhelming majority of people of color in this nation, done everything in my power to live a life of dignity and service and honesty. The knowledge that any of my fellow Americans is more afraid of me than the cast we are living through right now, well, that hurts. It hurts us all. It is a heaviness that sits on our hearts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well perspective now from two people especially close to Michelle Obama, David Axelrod, former senior advisor, President Obama and a CNN senior political commentator, and Valerie Jarrett, she too was a senior advisor to President Obama. She's also the author of Finding My Voice When the Perfect Plan Crumbles, The Adventure Begins.

David, Mrs. Obama, obviously is one of the most well-known and well liked Democrats in modern times, first Ladies in modern times, she has a very personal vested interest in the outcome of the race. How effective do you think her message will be in getting voters to the polls?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, one of the reasons that she's so popular is she's utterly authentic. She says what she means and she means what she says. And this was a very blunt message, message about COVID-19 and how it's been handled by this president, a message about economics and the unfairness of some of what's gone on these days and a very blunt message about race and was very -- in the last Part of this was an appeal to young people and to people of color about the importance of voting.

[20:45:06]

And I think all of it works together. The reason she is such a powerful figure, especially with the young is that they hear her speak truth that they believe. And I think she will -- this will be effective for them, especially if they use it virally with younger voters.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, Valerie, the former first lady laid out a lot of themes as David mentioned, she talked about the President's lies in competence handling the pandemic, calling out his actions, calling his actions, some of his actions racist. How effective do you think it'll be?

VALERIE JARRET, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Oh, I think it was a very powerful message. And David's right she speaks from the heart. She's authentic. She looked at this through the lens of what it's like for parents out there who are struggling with their children, trying to figure out how they can go to school safely.

As a mom of two college age, kids herself, or her perspective on as a black woman how the President's message, Anderson is just searingly painful. And what it must be like for so many black families around the country to hear a president who works to polarize us and separate ourselves and uses rhetoric that is racist, and she has a mighty powerful platform. People love her.

And it has nothing to do a politics, look she doesn't even like politics is David Axelrod well knows, but she believes her service. And she believes how important it is for our country, to be led by a person who she has complete confidence in. And she wanted to use her platform to deliver that message as powerfully as she could. We have 28 days until the election, people are already voting.

And so, she thought now was absolutely the right time where everybody's paying attention. And everybody's reeling from the events of over the weekend, what she found deeply and profoundly disturbing, given how close she is to the White House staff who took care of her family for eight years and who deserve better than this the Secret Service, who continues to protect her and her family. They deserve better than this.

COOPER: You know, David it is remarkable. The evolution of Mrs. Obama's critiques, you know, from diplomatic saying, you know, when they go low, we go high in our 2016 DNC speech to, you know, talking about comments, Donald Trump has made his as racist.

AXELROD: Yes. Well, I think she would argue probably that this that is not going low. That is that is being truthful and trying to appeal to the better angels of our nature. And what was interesting about this was she really spoke to white Americans about race, it wasn't just, it certainly was not just to appeal to black Americans and about and ask them for empathy to understand what it like, what it's like to be on the other end of some of those races, appeals.

But you know, Valerie's right, Anderson, Michelle Obama is deeply skeptical about many aspects of politics, she thinks it can be very cynical. She doesn't particularly like it, the fact that she has emerged in this way as a reflection of her passion about the she believes strongly that Donald Trump has led us in the wrong direction. And, and she feels compelled to use her platform, and you know, that she doesn't do that lightly.

COOPER: Valerie, it seems also that that some of this, of the push that Michelle Obama is doing is because of what we have seen in Texas and other places where clearly there are efforts to suppress the vote. I mean, they're, you know, limiting in a county one drop off box for you can drop in mail-in ballots for a county that, you know, is, I think, larger than the state of Rhode Island in one case.

Clearly that, I mean, it seems like a lot of prominent Democrats are trying to do everything they can to just overcome whatever obstacles they feel are out there and just get people to vote and how, however they can get them to vote. JARRETT: Well, I think that's exactly right. And look, we're in the middle of a global pandemic. So you add that on to it as well. She's worried about people being able to vote in a safe way, she's encouraged people to make a plan to vote, figure out what you're going to do, what's the safe way to do it, if you decide to go try the early vote if you can, so that there aren't these, you know, huge crushes that we saw on the primaries on Election Day, where I'm asked, be safe about it.

And certainly she's disturbed by these efforts to suppress the vote. But she also has been devoting herself to say let's not disenfranchise ourselves,

AXELROD: Well, one word if I could on the voting, I thought it was really powerful that she attached the urge to vote the duty to vote, to history, and to the sacrifices that people had had made in the past to make it possible for black Americans to vote, people like her.

And she really, I thought that was one of the most compelling parts of this. I mean, she basically told people you really don't have any choice. You really need to vote here. People died for this and you have the future in your hands and I thought this was a compelling a really compelling message.

[20:50:13]

JARRETT: She spoke earlier, you know, after the last election and house soul crushing it was 100 million Americans didn't vote and that all of the effort that her husband had gone through to put our country on the path that it is on was in jeopardy because of that election. And she doesn't want to see that mistake again.

COOPER: Valerie Jarrett, David Axelrod, thanks very much.

JARRETT: You're welcome.

COOPER: Still to Come. Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia will join me debated Vice President Pence four years ago. Can tell us what to expect during tomorrow night's vice presidential debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: About 24 hours away from the vice presidential debate this election year, Vice President Pence's team is objecting to a Plexiglas barrier being installed around the vice president in the wake of the White House coronavirus outbreak. Today Joe Biden spoke from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania about a country divided when he hopes to unite. Also about the need to keep politics out of science.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm running as a proud Democrat. But I will govern as an American president. I work with Democrats and Republicans. I work as hard for those who don't support me as those who do. That's the job of a president.

[20:55:01]

Wearing a mask is not a political statement. It's a scientific recommendation. Social distancing isn't a political statement. It's a scientific recommendation. Testing, tracing, the development and all approval and distribution of a vaccine isn't a political statement. It is a science-based decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining me now talk about tomorrow night's debates that are Tim Kaine of Virginia debated Vice President Pence four years ago as the Democrats 2016 vice presidential candidate. Senator, thanks for being with us. I'm wondering what your advice to Senator Harris would be for this debate?

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Well, you know, first I'm going to save my advice to conversations with Pamela who is a good friend. But let me just point out a fundamental difference 2020 to 2016. In 2016, neither of the tickets were incumbents. And so, both tickets were making their case Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, here's what I'll do if you elect me.

This is a different one that Trump pence team has had for years in office, and we've got, you know, death at an unprecedented scale, job loss 10 million people without work just since March, deficits and debt that have skyrocketed and social division that we haven't seen in 50 years. So, I think that gives Kamala who's a prosecutor the ability to put the evidence on the table and say, no one can realistically say we're better off than we were four years ago. Why should you get one more day in office? And I think you'll see her marshal that evidence.

COOPER: And Pence's team balked at having a Plexiglas barrier tomorrow night his chief of staff says they get to hear medical evidence for that. The vice president spokes one mocked Harris, saying if Senator Harris wants to use a fortress around herself have at it.

This is the guy who's supposed to be heading up the nation's response to the coronavirus pandemic, he allegedly was head of the Coronavirus Task Force. I mean, would you feel comfortable at that debate without some sort of enhanced safety precautions given all that we've seen out of the recklessness of this White House over the last several days and years?

KAINE: No. You should follow the Cleveland Clinic's advice? You're right on February 26th. President Trump asked Mike Pence to assume the most important title he'll ever have in his life. When he said to him be the head of the Coronavirus Task Force. And at that time, Anderson is you know, there were no deaths in this country. The President said it was going to magically go away.

Well, OK, we're months later 210,000 dead, job loss at an unprecedented scale hitting hardest Latino and African-American communities. And for the vice president to still be fighting against science. He's presided over a task force that has mismanaged a crisis, probably the greatest level in the history of this country. And he's still fighting against science, if they won't keep themselves safe. Why would we think they keep Americans safe?

COOPER: A new CNN poll shows that Vice President Biden has a big national lead over President Trump's 16 points among likely voters. I'm not sure why any Democrats would take any solace in any national polls at this stage, or at any stage. Right. I mean, do you -- are you concerned that it might cause complacency among some Democratic voters who think oh, it's 16 points, you know, wow, I don't need to go vote.

KAINE: Well, Anderson, let me tell you, I'm not worried about complacency. We certainly can't show it because, you know, we've got a president saying that he's probably going to try to deny the results of the election on November 3rd. So our only guarantee that we can sweep him and all like him out of office is the biggest margin possible.

And the good news is what we're seeing in Virginia, we started early voting on September 18th. We are setting absolute land records in terms of early voting, Ohio started early voting, I believe, yesterday or today and Senator Sherrod Brown was sharing with me earlier. They're just seeing tremendous energy and excitement. I think you're going to see Democratic turnout, just absolutely off the charts.

But we can't be complacent no matter what we see in the polls. Remember, President Trump was down in the polls last time and he won. And he wasn't president. He didn't have tools at his disposal to disenfranchise or confuse or so doubt. He's got all those tools at his disposal now, so we have to make the results as clear as we can.

COOPER: Is Pence good debater?

KAINE: Yes, he's a great communicator. Remember, Mike Pence was a radio talk show host for years before he got into politics. He could look in a camera and deliver a line with utmost sincerity, even if he knows that to be absolutely untrue. And that is obviously a real, real challenge. But Kamala Harris is sharp.

You've seen her on the Intel committee and the Judiciary Committee. And as I say she's a prosecutor who often has been in a courtroom arguing evidence. And when a Vice President Pence tries to paint happy talk about how President Trump has just done so well. I think you'll expect to see Kamala marshal the evidence about 210,000 deaths about 10 million job lost, deficits that are sky high about social division. And you'll see her do that and do that well.

[21:00:05]

COOPER: Senator Tim Kaine, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

KAINE: You bet. Absolutely.

COOPER: Our coverage debate starts 7:00 p.m. tomorrow night. That's it for us. The news continues want to head over Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME". Chris.