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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

DC Police Officer In Trump January 6 Motorcade Corroborates Details Of Heated Secret Service Exchange To Committee; Trump Reportedly Signals 2024 Run Not A Matter Of If, But When; GOP Blocks Taking Up Senate Bill To Guarantee Freedom To Travel Across States For Abortions; Grand Jury Indicts Alex Murdaugh For Murders Of Wife & Son; Demand For Monkeypox Vaccines Rises With Cases COunts, But Supply Remains Low; Ivana Trumpa, Donald Trump's First Wife, Dies At 73. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 14, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: The Tops Friendly Market Store will open tomorrow. It has been a complete renovation, and there's a Memorial Water Wall that includes a poem, it reads in part, "Let the hopeful healing waters flow, cleansing all pain and fear, all hurt, and regret. Let the water heal our people.

Thanks for joining us, Anderson is next.

[20:00:19]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Good evening.

We have some breaking news to bring you now involving one of the most dramatic moments of testimony in the January 6th investigation.

Just a short time ago, a source told CNN that a witness has now corroborated details of a story first relayed by Cassidy Hutchinson about a confrontation between the former President and his security detail the day of the attack.

Here is how Cassidy Hutchinson recounted the details to the Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE: The President said something to the effect of, I'm the effing President. Take me up to the Capitol now. To which Bobby responded, "Sir, we have to go back to the West Wing." The President reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, "Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol."

Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel and when Mr. Ornato had have recounted the story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): And was Mr. Engel in the room as Mr. Ornato told you this story? HUTCHINSON: He was.

CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel correct or disagree with any part of the story for Mr. Ornato?

HUTCHINSON: Mr. Engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story.

CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel or Mr. Ornato ever after that, tell you that what Mr. Ornato had just said was untrue.

HUTCHINSON: Neither Mr. Ornato nor Mr. Engel told me ever that it was untrue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I'm joined now by senior congressional correspondent Ryan Nobles with the new reporting.

So do we know who this witness is and what exactly they're saying that allegedly backs up Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't have a lot of specifics right now, Anderson, but our reporters Jamie Gangel and Annie Grayer were able to learn that there was a Metropolitan Police Department police officer, this was someone working for the Washington, DC Police Force that was part of the motorcade that did speak to the January 6 Select Committee and was able to corroborate at least a little bit about Donald Trump's position and his attitude on that day of January 6th.

And specifically that he was angry and had the desire to go to the Capitol on that day. Now, this wouldn't have been an officer that would have been specifically in the presidential SUV that was, which is in dispute right now, but someone that was part of that group of vehicles that would have taken the President from the Ellipse back to the White House.

So it is just another example of someone who has testified to the Committee, you cannot lie to Congress about what they saw on that day, versus the Secret Service, which has pushed back on Cassidy Hutchinson's account, but have done so through the most part through, you know, not statements that were put out under oath and in a public setting.

COOPER: Right. And so to that point, I mean, are there plans by the Committee to get the Secret Service agents who were in the presidential vehicle that day to testify under oath, because it does seem pretty weird that an unnamed person supposedly with the Secret Service put out the word that, oh, Secret Service agents disagreed with Cassidy Hutchinson said, that nobody is on the record, even with their names disagreeing and nobody is actually under oath disagreeing.

NOBLES: So the Secret Service main spokesperson did say on the record, didn't dispute on some level Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, but not in a fulsome way and not beyond, you know, they were -- they did it even more with the anonymous sources as you point to.

But to your point about whether or not Bobby Engel and Tony Ornato, who are essentially the only two people, aside from the driver of the limousine itself, who could actually fully be able to counter or confirm Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, we know that they already spoke to the Committee, members have said that their recollection of that event was a little bit more murky than the recollection of Cassidy Hutchinson.

And the Secret Service has said that they are willing to come forward and testify again. But it's also important to point out Anderson, that from the Committee's perspective, whether or not Donald Trump actually grabbed his steering wheel, whether or not he lunged at a Secret Service agent, that is not as important as the fact that he was angry, and that he wanted to go to the Capitol.

And as we've said, time and time again, no one, including the Secret Service agents, both on the record and talking anonymously have ever disputed that fact.

COOPER: There is also reporting that we have tonight regarding the Secret Service that I find incredibly kind of impossible to understand. There is word of deleted text messages from all and around January 6th. Can you explain what you know about this?

[20:05:04]

NOBLES: Yes, and what's interesting about this, Anderson, and Jamie Gangel, Zachary Cohen and I were able to put this story together. This comes from a letter that was sent to the department -- I should say the Committees dealing with Homeland Security in both the House and Senate from the Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security.

The Department of Homeland Security is a subsidiary or the Secret Service is a subsidiary of the Department of Homeland Security. And what the IG is saying is that they had asked the Secret Service to not only preserve, but hand over text messages from agents on both January 5th and January 6th.

And according to the IG, after that request was made, that the Secret Service underwent what they said was a device replacement program. And over the course of that replacement program, all of these text messages were deleted.

Now, the Committee finds that to be a problem, the Homeland Security Committee, of which Bennie Thompson is the Chairman of in addition to being the January 6th Committee Chairman. We have a statement tonight from Gary Peters, who is the Senate Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, who is also concerned about it.

Secret Service has pushed back on it a little bit, they have said not completely around the record that the IG's perception of this is not a hundred percent right. But they have yet to back up their claims as to why. The issue though, here, Anderson, is that this is information that these Committees have been looking for, for more than a year and a half, they're just now finding out that this information doesn't exist.

That is a big problem, among many other problems associated with this. And it just makes trying to figure out the information that these Committees, these various different organizations that are investigating what happened here on January 6th, it just makes that job that more difficult.

COOPER: Well, I mean, yes, it raises all sorts of questions about the credibility of the Secret Service, which is, you know, stunning.

I mean, I don't understand on such a consequential day in history, how anybody in the Secret Service or anywhere in the National Security establishment thinks it's a good idea to delete the text messages detailing what was going on in the inner circle of the White House that day. That bet boggles the mind, doesn't it?

NOBLES: Yes, I think it does. And Secret Service, you know, they have, you know, begun the process of reaching out to the media to respond to this letter. You know, we are told that it came as a surprise to them that they did not expect to see it.

And they do believe that they have an explanation for exactly what you're talking about, Anderson. We have not been given that explanation yet. But they, say that there is an easy way to allow us to understand exactly what happened here.

So we should give them the benefit of the doubt. They haven't had the chance to completely respond to this. But you're right, and you know, in total, there's been a lot of questions about the Secret Service, the role they played, in terms of what happened on January 6th, with the former President and the former Vice President.

And so all of these things are questions that the Committee has that they want answers to and again, when you don't have all the information, it makes it that much harder to paint the entire picture that they want to paint for the American people.

COOPER: Yes. Ryan Nobles, really appreciate your reporting. As always, thank you.

Joining us now, CNN contributor, former Nixon White House Counsel John Dean; CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem, former US Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security, which oversees the Secret Service; CNN senior law enforcement analyst, Andrew McCabe, former Deputy Director of the FBI; and CNN law enforcement analyst, Jonathan Wackrow, a former Secret Service agent.

Jonathan, I've got to start with you.

First of all, just on the text messages. Again, I guess, Ryan Nobles says we haven't -- the Secret Service says they have some sort of explanation. I don't think that explanation is "Oh, the text messages actually weren't erased." It seems like they were. But they have an explanation.

I mean, is this normal? Does this make sense to you? JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, it's not Anderson.

And listen, first of all, this is a big embarrassment for the Secret Service, one that they were caught off guard that this letter was being sent, and the fact that they didn't have the ability to quickly respond to it.

But I have a lot of questions for both DHS, the Inspector General, and the Secret Service. First, the Inspector General stated that many text messages were erased as part of this technology upgrade. I want the word "many" quantified, because what I'm hearing from sources at the Secret Service was that the request for information in text messages from 20 key agents that were involved in January 6th were received by the DHS Inspector General.

So I want to actually know, you know, is missing text messages part of a material fact in their investigation? If the answer is yes, the Secret Service really has to come out very strongly and articulate exactly what happened, why those text messages were missing.

And again, it also leads to a second order of consequence, which is, were they in violation of the Federal Records Act? If you are going through a technology upgrade, you need to have safeguards that information that is critical in terms of preserving data and information is adhered to and that is the law.

COOPER: Andrew, and again, I guess, I should just point out again, we don't have all the response from the Secret Service so with that caveat, does this make sense to?

[20:10:07]

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, it doesn't make sense at all. I think what Jonathan said is absolutely right. And let's remember here, back up one step. The Secret Service is an investigative organization. They don't just do protection for the President and other dignitaries, they investigate cases, and part of investigating cases, you have an obligation to preserve information both good and bad, and turn that information over to defendants and of course of criminal prosecutions, you have discovery obligations.

And text messages between agents come within the scope of those discovery obligations. So, if this is a pattern or practice of routinely losing text messages. That is not consistent with the efficient and lawful running of an investigative organization.

So there are many, many questions that need to be answered here. I agree with Jonathan that there is a lot more that we don't know here. There may be some non-nefarious answers to some of those questions.

But boy, there's a lot of information we need.

COOPER: Right, Juliette, I mean, the idea that messages are deleted as part of what's called a device replacement program after they were sought by oversight officials, again, if that is in fact the case. Does that make sense to you? JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No. I mean, I think

it doesn't sound credible. So if there is a credible explanation, the Secret Service needs to provide it. This sort of normal upgrade that they're talking about would still retain your text, because you're part of government service, and therefore retention purposes.

Plus, I mean, let's be serious, Secret Service. You know, what happened on January 6th, and this is going to be the moment in which you're not protecting the evidence that you know might be relevant.

Also, there is also another problem here, which is, of course, the Department of Homeland Security also exists. It oversees the Secret Service. It really needs to get out in front of this. This is their component agency.

And so the Secret Service is now -- this is now the second or third time where the Secret Service simply says their story isn't true, whoever is complaining Cassidy Hutchinson, whoever. We know the truth. Well, that's not good enough anymore. I mean, this was an insurrection. And they serve -- you know, they may have a job, a mission, but they actually take an Oath of Office to protect the Constitution.

COOPER: John Dean, I mean, if it does turn out the text messages were deleted intentionally, for whatever reason, and the Secret Service strongly denies, but again, has not offered any real explanation here. Do you think that creates any legal jeopardy for those involved?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It certainly could, if they intentionally did it, if there was some nefarious reason that they did it.

Anderson, I'd also put this in to context. This isn't the first time information from the Secret Service has gone missing on the 6th.

The President's daily diary for that day has a seven-hour gap. The Secret Service is one of the principal entities that feeds the diarist that keeps the record of the Presidential Record for that day.

And apparently, the Secret Service couldn't supply information about that day. So there's seven hours missing there, too.

We've never had a good explanation of that. So this is a pattern, and it's troubling.

COOPER: Thanks, everyone. Obviously, there is more to be reported on this. The former President seems to be looking ahead, not back.

Coming up, new reports signaling his 2024 run. The question is when he will make the announcement. We'll talk it over with our political panel.

Also tonight, murder charges against once prominent South Carolina attorney in the deaths of his own wife and son. It is a bizarre saga we've been covering for more than a year. New developments on it ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:03]

COOPER: Strong signal tonight, the former President's plan of a 2024 run for the White House. He spoke to "New York" Magazine. The headline reads: "I've Already Made that Decision: The only question left in the former President's mind is when he'll announce." Now the question is, will it be before after the November midterm elections?

Those comments confirmed by previous CNN reporting on the behind-the- scenes deliberations. "The Washington Post" also on the story today with the headline, he " ... looks to fall launch for 2024 potentially upending midterms." The sub headline: "Some Republicans fear an announcement will undercut them at a time when they have a strong chance of retaking the House and Senate."

"The Washington Post's" Michael Shermer and Josh Dawsey, writing: "One confidant put the odds at 70-30 he announces before the midterms, and others said he may still decide to announce sooner than September." They quote two people familiar with the matter saying: "Trump has begun talking with advisers about who should run a campaign and his team has instructed others to have an online apparatus ready for a campaign should he announce soon."

Joining us for more prospective, CNN senior political correspondent anchor of "Inside Politics" Sunday, Abby Phillip; also two CNN political commentators, former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, and a former campaign strategist for the former President, David Urban.

So Abby, on the surface, it sure seems like the former President is going to run. Is anything with him that simple?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I think this is probably maybe the worst kept secret in Washington and in politics. I mean, I think it has always been more likely than not that Trump would run again for President. He has been teasing it for many, many months. I mean, pretty much since he left the White House.

So it is a question of when he announces it, and how he runs for President. I mean, I think that the big undercurrent of a lot of the hemming and hawing on the part of his advisers is how much is he going to be fixated and obsessed on his loss to Joe Biden, and so far, he hasn't given any indication that he is any less fixated on that even though many of his allies want him to turn to more substantive issues, it just does not seem like that is what is motivating him at the moment.

[20:20:05]

COOPER: Yes, David, you've talked about that about him not looking forward, but looking -- you know, re-litigating the past. As a former Trump campaign strategist, do you think announcing a presidential bid by the former President before the midterms is a good idea for Republican candidates? DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, the Democratic Party

is going to run against Donald Trump, whether he has announced or not announced. So it does put candidates in a particular pickle, right?

They're going to be asked questions about well, do you support what occurred on January 6th? They're going to be dragged through, you know, a myriad of questions about that, whether they believe that Joe Biden was the duly elected President of the United States and they are going to have to be on the record on that, and debates otherwise.

So, you know, I would think that it would behoove the President for the party, right, if he were to run after the primary, excuse me, after the General Election were held here in the fall, but as we all know, the President is going to do what he wants to do.

COOPER: Congressman Dent, I mean, if he announces before the midterms, how do you think Republicans who are going to be on the ballot this November deal with him? Do they embrace him? Keep their distance while campaigning? I mean, I guess it depends State by State?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, well, certainly Anderson. For those who represent swing districts, they're going to want to keep -- in swing states -- they're going to want to keep their distance from Donald Trump.

The Democrats will be thrilled if Donald Trump announces before the midterm. Look, Republicans want to make this midterm election a referendum on Joe Biden and the Democrats to the extent that Donald Trump inserts himself into the midterms by announcing, he turns this into a choice that plays right into the Democrats hands.

And you know, I've heard some voices out there on the Republican side saying, well, Trump will gin up the base, that's what they need. Well, these are people who've never run in swing districts or swing States who need to persuade Independent voters, as well as some Democrats in order to win. They don't have enough of a base.

So I would think that Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell, want nothing more than for Donald Trump not to announce before the midterm. It will make it much more difficult for them to capture majorities in both chambers.

COOPER: And very quickly, David Urban. I mean, if he announced this before the thing, before midterms and Republicans do well, then he gets to claim credit; if they do badly --

URBAN: He will blame Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell.

COOPER: Well, yes. Okay. There you go. Exactly. It works either way for him.

URBAN: But you know, Congressman Dent has a point right. Charlie is running in running in a swing district, right? This year could easily go for a Republican, right? I always said that you know, Charlie Dent was the only person that could hold that seat forever. And now, we've -- you know, we're in a year where Republicans could take back that seat, theoretically, and it's going to be a tough race, where the President jumping in beforehand, it may make it even more tougher.

COOPER: Abby, on his overseas trip, President Biden was asked about a potential rematch with the former President. I just want to quickly play that for our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Are you predicting a Biden-Trump rematch in 2024?

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not predicting, but I would -- I would not be disappointed.

QUESTION: You will not be disappointed? So you look forward to that rematch?

BIDEN: No. Look, the one thing I know about politics, in American politics in particular, is there is no way to predict what's going to happen. Where -- I'm not even halfway through my term yet. And so there's a lot of room to figure out what's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Abby, what do you make of President's response?

PHILLIP: Look, I think both of these are men who think that they're the best guys to go up against the other guy. But Joe Biden is the only one of the two who actually has the ability to say that he actually beat Trump. And I think that that has been his message to his own party, and it's certainly going to be his message to the electorate going forward.

I think Biden sees this matchup as just probably the best case scenario for him. A flawed candidate on the Republican side who he has already beaten. There's already a sort of playbook for how to do it.

And so of the of the scenarios here, let's say, hypothetically, a Biden-Ron DeSantis matchup or something to that effect, Biden is looking at a Biden-Trump matchup and saying, "This looks pretty good," in part because "I've already done it."

And you know, Trump -- the problem with Trump is that he's still in denial about the fact that he lost to Biden, so I think that that colors how he views what a matchup would be like for him.

URBAN: And Anderson, really quickly I'll just say, I would like -- I'd just add that I think lots of voters have buyer's remorse, right? They voted for Joe Biden thinking he was going to govern in a completely different way. They thought he was going to be a centrist, kind of a uniter and he's really kind of tacked hard left.

And so I think, you know, crime, inflation, gas prices, all -- you know, all -- really translate into the historically low numbers, 85 percent wrong track in America. I think Donald Trump would beat Joe Biden head to head come '24, so ...

COOPER: David Urban, Charlie Dent, Abby Phillip -- go ahead, Charlie, very quickly. Go ahead.

DENT: Just remember Donald Trump is going to announce for one reason, he wants to freeze the GOP Republican field for 2024. He wants to keep Ron DeSantis and Pompeo, and all these other candidates, prospective Republican candidates from running.

[20:25:10]

That is what this is about. That's why he's doing this, he is trying to freeze the field, keep them out as long as he can.

COOPER: You think it is going to work?

DENT: I think it will work with some of them. I don't think they're going to want to challenge him immediately. That's why he's not doing this to help the Republicans, he's doing this to help himself in the presidential race.

COOPER: Coming up, the horrific case -- all, thank you -- the horrific case of the 10-year-old girl in Ohio who was raped and how her story played out during a congressional hearing today as an anti- abortion activists tried to argue a point, one Democratic Congressman called disinformation.

We'll also discuss what Congressman Jim Jordan said about this story and why it stands apart from so many of the others on the far-right who also initially cast out on it, "Keeping Them Honest," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: "Keeping Them Honest" now about a tragic story of a young girl who was raped and how her ordeal was quickly politicized and then lied about.

The original story appeared July 1st in "The Indianapolis Star," where the child was seeking an abortion, which is unavailable now in Ohio after a fetal cardiac activity is detected.

The headline, "Patients head to Indiana for abortion services as other states restrict care."

A doctor in Indiana named Dr. Caitlin Bernard, an OB-GYN is quoted as saying she was contacted by a colleague in Ohio regarding the 10-year- old girl's situation, and the paper said: "The girl soon was on her way to Indiana to Bernard's care." Although it is unclear if the child had the abortion when this story was published.

We do know the girl has now had an abortion. That doctor in Indiana is now under investigation by State officials.

[20:30:14]

The child's saga was cited by President Biden and a speech about the need to protect abortion rights in the wake of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, after which a number of politicians and then right-wing media outlets began to cast out that a 10-year-old girl had indeed been raped and traveled to Indiana for an abortion. And one of the most prominent politicians to do this was Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan. Earlier this week, he tweeted out a headline by the paper the Washington Examiner reads quote, Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost said his office has not found any evidence of a 10-year-old rape victim in the state, who according to a report cited by President Joe Biden was six weeks pregnant and traveled to Indiana to receive an abortion. Now, the congressman, as you see added his own comment above the quote it read, another lie, anyone surprised.

Yesterday, however, authorities in Ohio announced that the man they have charged with the rape has confessed. And it turns out the rape of the girl was reported to police in Ohio two months ago. Congressman Jordan or his staff has since deleted his tweet. And a number of news organizations that casts doubt on the story have corrected themselves, republish updates as well.

Congressman Jordan, however, an elected leader from Ohio has not. And this is what he told CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Why you delete that tweet?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Well, because we learned that this illegal alien did this heinous crime. So we've deleted the tweet.

RAJU (on-camera): Would you apologize for the, to the girl and the family for suggesting a lie?

JORDAN: Never doubted the child. I was responding to a headline from your profession, the news profession, which happens all the time on Twitter, data (ph) Joe Biden, which is usually a smart thing to do, based on all the things that he says that aren't accurate. But, you know, the Washington Post said there was the destroy, there was no evidence, they hadn't seen any evidence, the Wall Street Journal did our Attorney General, the Attorney General said the same thing. So that's (INAUDIBLE).

RAJU (on-camera): But your tweet came across as if you were questioning her story that she was raped and that she had to go across the lines to get an abortion.

JORDAN: Not at all came across as what Joe Biden had talked about. Others have talked about, we were never questioning the child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now, Congressman Jordan could have just said, look, I made a mistake, and I regret it. But that's not something many politicians do today. And it's certainly not something politicians who want to stay in the good graces of the former president ever do. They all have to pretend to be tough guys. That's certainly the persona Jim Jordan likes to adopt. You may notice he focused on the immigration status of the suspect. That's also something out of the Republican response playbook these days, its diverting attention from his mistake and his refusal to apologize. It's a Dodge and it's pretty weak when it that for an allegedly tough guy. As for Mr. Jordan's logic, it's also dodge he very much did doubt this child. Here's that tweet again, quote, another lie, anyone surprised?

The focus of the headline he's responding to in the paper that he had tweeted out was saying that the state attorney general hadn't found any evidence of the rape of a 10-year-old girl. Jordan was saying another lie. Jordan saying the girl her parents, the doctor who performed the abortion, the President saying they were all lying. One of the news organizations he cites to defend his stance here is the Wall Street Journal. And that papers editorial is actually instructive here. Maybe Congressman Jordan should reread it or someone on his staff should read it to him. Because not only did the journal append an editor's note to the original op-ed, updating as the arrest. It also points readers to this, it published a separate editorial called Correcting The Record On A Rape Case. In it, they state quote, we appreciate our obligation to correct the record on the case, which is a terrible one. They published a correction and they called it a quote, obligation.

Jim Jordan is an elected public official who helped fuel a lie about a 10-year-old girl who was raped, went to a state to have an abortion and a public official who does that should have the same obligation to correct the record. And maybe just maybe even apologize. But maybe that simple act of decency is too tough for guy who works really hard pretending to be tough.

Tonight, the story of that little girl is also playing out elsewhere on Capitol Hill.

I'm joined now by CNN congressional correspondent Jessica Dean. There was a moment between Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell and an anti- abortion advocate today on the Hill. Can you talk about what happened?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, we're now seeing lawmakers on both sides of the aisle kind of walking forward and moving forward in this post Roe world and what that looks like today in this case is a House Judiciary Committee hearing on individual freedoms in the post Roe world and that's what we saw on this exchange between Swalwell and this woman.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Do you think a 10-year-old should choose to carry a baby?

CATHERINE GLENN FOSTER, CEO, AMERICANS UNITED FOR LIFE: I believe it would probably impact her life. And so therefore, it would fall under any exception and would not be an abortion. SWALWELL: Wait. It would not be an abortion if a 10-year-old with her parents made it decision not to have a baby that was the result of a rape?

[20:35:04]

FOSTER: If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life then that's not an abortion. So it would not fall under any abortion restriction in our nation.

SWALWELL: Ms. Warbelow, are familiar with disinformation.

SARAH WARBELOW, LEGAL DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Yes, I am.

SWALWELL: Did you just hear some disinformation?

WARBELOW: I guess I heard some very significant disinformation.

SWALWELL: Why don't you tell me about that?

SWALWELL: Yes, an abortion is a procedure. It's a medical procedure that individuals undergo for a wide range of circumstances, including because they have been sexually assaulted, raped in the case of the 10-year-old. It doesn't matter whether or not there's a statutory exemption, it is still a medical procedure that is understood to be an abortion.

Beyond that, I think it's also important to note that there is no exception for the life or the health of the mother in the Ohio law. That's why that 10-year-old had to cross state lines in order to receive an abortion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Disinformation there. It's also worth noting, Anderson that Jim Jordan is the ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee. That's a very powerful committee over in the House. And if Republicans win in the midterms, and take back the House, which it's expected, they will at this point, he would most likely become the chairman of that committee.

COOPER: And some Democratic senators also introduced a bill this week creating protection for abortion providers.

DEAN: That's right. So, we saw a group of the Democratic senators, women who introduced this bill, it would guarantee a constitutional right for women to cross state lines to get abortion care. It would also, as you mentioned, provide additional protections for administrators, doctors, providers, who provide that care for out of state patients. Now a lot of bills get introduced in the Senate all the time. And as we've talked about, many times, they run into the 60 vote filibuster. So this one is certainly not going anywhere in a 50/50 Senate.

But again, Anderson just an example of how the discussions are moving forward here in this post Roe world. We saw some very emotional comments and speeches from Republican senators today who were very much against bills in this way. They called them radical they said that they're just there to inflame people. Meantime, the sponsors of this bill saying that they're very afraid that some states are going to essentially hold women captive in their states and not allow them to seek care across state lines. Anderson.

COOPER: Jessica Dean, appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up, a grand jury indicts disgraced South Carolina Attorney Alex Murdaugh for the murders of his own wife and youngest son. What his lawyers are saying about the new accusations, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:41:21]

COOPER: Tonight, an update on story I brought you last night. Disbarred South Carolina Attorney Alex Murdaugh is now charged with killing his wife Maggie and youngest son Paul. Now back in June of last year may remember they were shot to death on the grounds of the family state. Alex Murdaugh called 911 saying he'd found the bleeding and has always denied he was there at the time of the murders. His lawyers said he had a strong alibi.

Now, in addition to dozens of charges for financial crimes that he's facing, he's charged with the murders of his two family members. And that's by the way, not all. Randi Kaye tonight has been covering this story from the start joins us from Charleston. OK, Randi, this is nuts.

RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson today the grand jury here in South Carolina indicted Alex Murdaugh for two counts of murder and two counts possession of a weapon. The indictment alleges that he shot his wife Maggie with a rifle and his youngest son Paul with a shotgun. Now, the indictment doesn't mention anything about a motive. And what's interesting, Anderson is that these two deaths are not the only deaths that appear to be related or connected to Alex Murdaugh and his family. Here's what we know about the others.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he in a road or on the side of the road?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's in the roadway. He's laying in the road. Somebody going to hit him, and it's dark.

KAYE (voice-over): Seven years ago this month, Stephen Smith was found dead in the middle of a South Carolina road.

(on-camera): Seven years with no answers for you. In terms of what happened to your son. What does that feel like?

SANDY SMITH, STEPHEN SMITH'S MOTHER: Heartbreaking. No, he was a human, and he deserves justice.

KAYE (voice-over): Sandy Smith is Stephen's mother. She says he was a bright blue eyed 19-year-old with dreams of becoming a doctor.

(on-camera): Stephen Smith body was found in the middle of this road. A pathologist said it appeared to be a hit and run. But the Highway Patrol's incident report noted they didn't find any vehicle debris, skid marks or injuries on Stephens's body consistent with someone being struck by a vehicle.

(voice-over): According to the case notes, Stephen died from blunt force trauma to the head.

(on-camera): What do you believe happened to your son?

SMITH: I believe he was beaten to death.

MIKE HEMLEPP, SANDY SMITH'S LAWYER: Being hit by a car is a brutal and violent act and you would have lots of injuries all over your body. I've never seen it hit and run where the shoes are made on the feet.

KAYE (voice-over): Evidence from the scene shows Stephen's loosely tied shoes were still on his feet. Stephens's mysterious death may be connected to Alex Murdaugh and his family. The disgraced South Carolina lawyer is now charged with the double murder of his wife and son. In fact SLED, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division said they reopened the investigation into Stephen Smith's death based on information gathered at the double murder scene of Maggie and Paul Murdaugh. And there are others connected to the Murdaugh family who have also died mysteriously.

ERIC BLAND, LAWYER FOR GLORIA SATTERFIELD'S FAMILY: I don't know anybody in my 60 years of life that had five people die in their orb.

KAYE (voice-over): Attorney Eric Bland represents the family of Gloria Satterfield. She was the Murdaugh's longtime housekeeper who died in 2018 after falling down the stairs at their home. Murdaugh's wife was still alive at the time and called 911.

MARGARET MURDAUGH, WIFE OF ALEX MURDAUGH: My housekeeper had fallen and her head is bleeding. I cannot get her up.

KAYE (voice-over): Satterfield later died in the hospital. According to the Hampton County Coroner an autopsy was never done, and her manner of death was listed as natural. The coroner noted that was inconsistent with injury sustained in a trip and fall accident. State law enforcement recently announced plans to exhume the woman's body as part of a criminal investigation into her death.

BLAND: Everything around Alex is a lie or deception or half answers. It's a family that's cloaked in secrecy.

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KAYE (voice-over): And the truth about what happened to 19-year-old Mallory Beach may have died with Alex Murdaugh's son Paul. She was killed in February 2019 while boating with Paul Murdaugh and friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in a boat crash on Archer's Creek. There's six of us and one is missing.

KAYE (voice-over): Paul was facing charges of boating under the influence and causing her death when he was suddenly murdered. The investigation is ongoing.

Now all these years later, these victims families are still hoping for answers. And Alex Murdaugh isn't talking.

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COOPER: Has he had any response the indictments handed down today?

KAYE: Anderson no, Alex Murdaugh's lawyer has issued a statement today on his behalf saying that he wants his family, friends and everyone to know that he did not have anything to do with the murders of Maggie and Paul. It goes on to say he loved them more than anything in the world. But it's worth noting, Anderson that last year after these murders, it was Alex Murdaugh himself who offered up $100,000 in reward money for anyone who has information about the murders of his wife and son, Anderson.

COOPER: Not sure how many how much family or friends he has left after all the things he's done.

KAYE: Yes.

COOPER: Randi, appreciate it. Thank you.

The number of monkeypox cases is quickly rising across the nation, so is the demand for the vaccine. Despite efforts to distribute more doses, the rollout has been sporadic at best. Coming up next, the story of one man who contracted the virus and the warning he has for everyone.

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COOPER: New data just released from the CDC shows there are nearly 1,500 confirmed monkeypox cases nationwide. This comes just one day after the probable confirmed count crossed the 1,000 mark. As cases grow so there's demand for the vaccine. Last hour Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN about 1.1 million vaccine doses that may be available in his words, relatively soon. And according to the Department of Health and Human Services, the number of monkeypox vaccines distributed across the country is more than tripled since last week. That's not saying much though.

There are reports of people frustrated because they can't find the vaccine websites are crashing when there are appointments put online and experts one supply still fall short of the levels needed to control the surge.

Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports on one man who contracted the virus and who wants to sound the alarm. Here's his report. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT FORD, MONKEYPOX PATIENT: It started off with just a few lesions I got intense flu like symptoms. As the flu symptoms abated, the lesion will a more calm start to appear and the baby became at worst excruciatingly painful and at best, mildly irritating.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Knowing exactly what it feels like to have monkeypox, Matt Ford has taken to social media to now warn people about the virus.

FORD: This (INAUDIBLE) sucks and you don't want it. I've got these on my arms --

GUPTA (voice-over): But now his frustration is that even as awareness grows, those who need it might have a hard time finding a vaccine.

FORD: The supply is so low but there's not that much to go around.

GUPTA (voice-over): Since May, the number of cases in the United States has continued to grow quickly. But the to dose JYNNEOS monkeypox vaccine has been rolling out slowly.

DAVID HOLLAND, CHIEF CLINICAL OFFICER, FULTON COUNTY BOARD OF HEALTH: We got an allotment of 200 vaccines and the appointments for that went in about an hour and a half.

GUPTA (voice-over): New York City Mayor Eric Adams has reached out to the White House to underscore his state's unmet demand. The two doses are usually given four weeks apart, but Mayor Adams wants the White House to consider a longer interval in between the doses, so more first doses could be administered immediately.

Right now, the CDC recommends the vaccine for high risk individuals, people who have been diagnosed with or exposed to monkeypox and people who are at higher risk of being exposed to monkeypox. That means not for the general populations prevention.

CARLOS DEL RIO, PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, EMORY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: The problem is we simply don't have enough vaccine. So we're trying to play catch up, we need to get vaccination to be more because we know that, you know, vaccinating people may not necessarily prevent the infection but will certainly decrease the severity of disease.

GUPTA (voice-over): The CDC estimates this vaccine is at least 85% effective, giving it within four days of exposure is best to prevent the onset of disease. And even if given within 14 days of exposure, it may still reduce the symptoms.

(on-camera): I'm looking at something that I've never seen before. As a doctor, I want to introduce you to Coy (ph), she's 22 years old. And what she has is an active case of, of monkeypox.

(voice-over): But this is not necessarily what monkeypox always looks like. To Matt Ford, the lesions started smaller, and not as obvious.

FORD: I maybe would have suspected that they were like herpes simplex virus or some other skin condition.

GUPTA (voice-over): Right now public health officials are sounding the loudest alarms in the LGBTQ community. That's due to most cases being reported in men who have sex with men. But experts warn the outbreak could still expand.

DEL RIO: So very reminiscent of the early days of HIV right in which it was impacting, you know, man have sex with man, the gay community in the United States. And it's almost like the general public were not paying attention. And then HIV became a disease that affected other people. It affected everybody. And then all of a sudden people got interested.

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COOPER: Sanjay joins me now. I mean, even the testing is an issue. It's very difficult to get, you know, testing for doctors in at least in New York from what I've heard talking to doctors. The idea that New York's mayor, Eric Adams is proposing postponing a second shock to help with supply issues. Would that still offered some protection?

GUPTA: Yes, this is actually pretty scientifically sound. We looked into this. So this is typically a two dose vaccine, but increasing the interval. It makes a lot of sense. The first dose gives you a lot of protection. And then what the second dose is supposed to do is lengthen the time that you have that protection, the durability, talked to the CEO of the company that makes these vaccines, they say you can even wait up to two years to sort of get that second shot.

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So taking the 135,000 or so doses that are out there right now and using them as all as first shots as opposed to holding some back for second shots makes a lot of sense.

COOPER: I know people trying to get appointments and the websites keep crashing. They're just -- it's amazing that, you know, we haven't really learned a lot of the lesson, the early lessons from the coronavirus in terms of what how we need to be ready for the next pandemic. Are there any other treatment options for those who have monkeypox?

GUPTA: But you know, for someone like Matt, for example, Matt Ford you just met, you can treat this symptomatically with pain medications, you can -- these can be quite painful lesions. There are antivirals out there, there is an antiviral that is typically used for smallpox that could potentially be used for this. But that's really a compassionate use point at this point in the in the outbreak. So really, it's about these vaccines.

And as you mentioned, they expect to have some 2 million doses by the end of the year. But it does sound like what we went through in the early days of COVID. The outbreak is happening now.

COOPER: Right.

GUPTA: So it's really important to have those doses out there now.

COOPER: Yes. Sanjay, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Up next, the latest details in the passing the former president's first wife Ivana Trump.

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COOPER: The ex-wife of the former president Ivana Trump passed away earlier today. The former President shared this on his social media platform quote, I'm very saddened to inform all of those that loved her of which there are many that Ivana Trump has passed away to her home in New York City.

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The fire department said they responded to a report of someone suffering cardiac arrest at the home where Ivana Trump died. According to a statement, police found her unresponsive pronounced her dead at the scene. The New York Police Department says it doesn't appear to be any criminality relating to her death.

Ivana Trump is the mother obviously the former president's eldest children, Donald Jr, Ivanka and Eric Trump. The two divorced in 1992 after his affair with Marla Maples, who became the former President's second wife. Ivana Trump was 73 years old.

The news continues. Want to head over Laura Coates in "CNN TONIGHT." Laura.

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