Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

U.S. Military Seeks To Expand Access To Bases In Philippines With Eye Toward China; Houses Passes Resolution To Remove Rep. Ilhan Omar From Foreign Affairs Committee; New Image Of Green Comet Seen Above Stonehenge. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired February 02, 2023 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Still to come, more on the video, showing the aftermath, after two missiles hit close, to Fred Pleitgen, and his team, in Ukraine.

And, an in-depth conversation, with Russian pro-democracy leader, Garry Kasparov, about Putin's next moves.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: More now, on Ukraine, and what could be crucial months, ahead.

Both sides are now preparing for heavier spring fighting. The Biden administration is expected, any day now, to announce another round of military aid, including longer-range munitions, to be able to hit deeper, behind Russian lines.

In the meantime, Russia continues targeting civilians, wholesale. One attack nearly hit CNN's Fred Pleitgen, and his crew.

We showed you a bit, of the harrowing moments, in the last hour. Now, here's the full report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two missile strikes.

(MISSILE STRIKES)

PLEITGEN (voice-over): On the City of Kramatorsk in Eastern Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Right at the location we were about to film.

PLEITGEN (on camera): There were just two massive missile strikes, right in our vicinity. You can see it's just a couple of yards away, from where we are. We're not exactly sure what kind of missiles it was. But this is a residential area. We're right in the middle of town.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Photojournalist, Matthias Somm, films the damage, caused by the impact.

Ukrainian authorities later said they believe the missiles were S- 300s, normally used to shoot down planes, devastating, when launched, at urban centers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

PLEITGEN (voice-over): As medics, tended to the wounded, Producer, Tim Lister, checks in, with our headquarters.

[21:05:00]

TIM LISTER, CNN PRODUCER: Extremely loud detonations, really, really close. We're going to stay in shelter.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): As we take cover, residents are clearly traumatized, by the violence.

NATALIA, KRAMATORSK RESIDENT: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

PLEITGEN (voice-over): "It is terrifying," Natalia tells me, "But what can we do?"

NATALIA: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

PLEITGEN (voice-over): The strikes came, as search and rescue efforts were ongoing, in exactly the same neighborhood, after a Russian missile, leveled an apartment block, on Wednesday night, killing at least three, and wounding eight.

The Russians seem to be bringing the cities of this region into their war, regardless of the consequences. And Russian President Vladimir Putin is saying there is worse to come.

Putin spoke, Thursday, at events, commemorating the Battle of Stalingrad, where Soviet forces, defeated Nazi Germany, 80 years ago, openly threatening the U.S., and other countries, supporting Ukraine.

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

PLEITGEN (voice-over): "Clearly, they don't understand that modern war with Russia will be quite different for them," he said, "We won't send our tanks to their borders. But we have the means to respond. And it won't be with the use of armored vehicles."

Cities, like Kramatorsk, already know that the Kremlin is ready to escalate, its war, on Ukraine. Largely quiet, just weeks ago, they are now, in the eye of the storm, as Russian forces seek to grind their way, through Donetsk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we're going to make it (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mathew (ph) you with me.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): When the coasts seemed clear, we left Kramatorsk.

PLEITGEN (on camera): We're going to get out of here as fast as possible, just in case there's more missile strikes coming. But it certainly seems to us, as though the Russians are making Kramatorsk, a frontline, in this war.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): A grim prospect, for the thousands of civilians, here, and in other towns, in Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Fred, what are Ukrainian officials saying about these attacks, today?

PLEITGEN: Well, obviously, they're extremely angry about this. There have been several Ukrainian officials, who have come out, once again, and called the state terrorism, on the part of the Russian Federation.

Of course, one of the things that they're extremely angry about is that there was of course, that initial airstrike, or that strike with a missile that already leveled that building, killing several people. And there was still a massive cleanup operation, going on, and a rescue operation. They still believe people might be under the rubble. And then, more airstrikes took place. So, the Ukrainians, certainly very angry.

But one of the other things we also picked up on, John, is that the Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, he came out, and he said that he believes things like this are already an indication that a new Russian offensive might already well be underway, John.

BERMAN: So Fred, have you spoken to any residents, in Kramatorsk, who are planning to leave the city, as these strikes seem to be increasing?

PLEITGEN: Well, it's a really difficult situation. One of the things that we have to keep in mind is that about half the population, of Kramatorsk, has already left the city. That happened in the early stages of the war. The population is a lot smaller than it was before.

However, because Kramatorsk had actually become a little bit safer, there were people who came back. I was here a couple of months ago. And there were a lot fewer people in the city, back then. They came back. And of course, now they're being hit by those airstrikes, situation becoming extremely dangerous, for them.

And people that we speak to now, a lot of them say, "Look, we're too poor to leave. We have nowhere to go." So, a lot of them are going to have to ride all of this out. But they understand things are going to become a lot more dangerous, for them, very soon, John.

BERMAN: Fred Pleitgen, you and your team, please stay safe, my friend.

PLEITGEN: Yes.

BERMAN: More now, on what Putin is threatening, and how his next moves might be received, in Russia, and countered by Ukraine, and the West.

Joining us now, one of the Kremlin's leading critics, pro-democracy leader, and former World Chess champion, Garry Kasparov, Author of "Winter Is Coming: Why Vladimir Putin and the Enemies of the Free World Must Be Stopped."

Garry, nice to see you.

When you hear Vladimir Putin talk about his response, mostly, to tanks and other things, is this more of a threat for Western leaders? Or is it a message for the domestic audience in Russia?

GARRY KASPAROV, RUSSIAN PRO-DEMOCRACY LEADER, CHAIRMAN, THE HUMAN RIGHTS FOUNDATION, AUTHOR, "WINTER IS COMING," TWITTER: @KASPAROV63: Both. He has to reassure Russian audience that he is still in charge, he's in control, and he has a plan. Obviously, he doesn't. But he has to pretend, as every dictator, he should present the aura of invincibility.

And also, he is trying the same game that he has been playing for years. It's a geopolitical poker. He is making threats, and he expects (inaudible) to follow the cards.

And of course, he understands that the Free World has enough weapons, to supply Ukraine, to win the war. But it's incremental. And the horrible attacks that we just witnessed, a couple of minutes ago, on the screen, they could have been prevented if long-range missiles, have been supplied to Ukraine, ages ago.

[21:10:00]

But unfortunately, the West, but let's talk about the United States, this administration still couldn't make its mind, about the outcome of the war. There is the fight, within the administration, and the so- called, the party of negotiated outcome, is preventing these weapons being sent to Ukraine.

BERMAN: Garry, you grew up in the Soviet Union. So, what do you make of Putin's efforts, to compare his invasion, of Ukraine, to what the USSR did, in World War II, Stalingrad?

KASPAROV: Absolute nonsense. And, by the way, the Soviet propaganda never recognized the fact that the Battle of Stalingrad was won, with American technological support. Without the American tanks, planes, the Soviet army could be crushed, even before they had this chance, to encircle German troops, around Stalingrad.

Overall is the World War II (inaudible) is the rest of the world, which many Russians can tell you that "Oh, we fought the rest of the world," ignoring the fact that there were Americans, there were Brits, and a part of simply sending their (inaudible) and everything Soviet United needed. There was a war, in many other parts of the world. And during the Battle of Stalingrad, one of the best German tanks divisions, fought in Africa.

So, it's a fairly cheap propaganda. Unfortunately it works, still works, because Putin totally controls airwaves in Russia.

But my concern is just not so much Russia now, but why the Free World, doesn't recognize that the only way, to restore peace, is to defeat Putin's invading armies. And that's why weapons, all the weapons, except nuclear, of course, must be sent to Ukraine, immediately.

BERMAN: There has been a lot of discussion about whether Russia will pursue a new large wave of mobilization. Do you think that they will try to pull thousands more people, into the armed forces? Could Putin do it without sparking social unrest in Russia?

KASPAROV: Nobody knows whether it could be done without social unrest. But he'll try. He already mobilized hundreds of thousands, and more to come. He needs cannon fodder. He needs new soldiers, to fill the holes, in the front line.

Because, this war has huge casualties, on both sides. We're talking about (inaudible) field, more than 100,000 Ukrainians, and God knows how many the Russians. We're talking probably about (inaudible) that numbers and (inaudible) with the artillery and trenches than World War II. But with this, casualties will mount.

And Putin, as every dictator, before him, definitely as every Soviet dictator, didn't care about human casualties. He'll try to push through. And unless Ukraine has weapons, to neutralize these attempts, and to start the counteroffensive, this war will drag on, and the list of, casualties, the death toll, keep growing every day.

BERMAN: How many lives do you think Vladimir Putin is willing to lose, Russian lives, before he changes his goals in this conflict?

KASPAROV: He will never change his goals, in this conflict.

It was clear, from very beginning, the, goal of this war was to destroy Ukraine, as a state, because that was an obstacle, in Putin's plans, to restore Russian Soviet empire. And as long as he has his resources, he'll keep throwing them, because nobody knows, at what point, Russians will revolt. But the only way to stop it is to defeat him on the battlefield.

From Russian history, we know that Russians could tolerate suffering, and they're ready to pay a huge price, for military victory. But every geopolitical defeat, every military catastrophe, always led to a revolt, and revolution, in Russia. So hopefully, things will repeat this time.

BERMAN: Garry Kasparov, we appreciate you being with us tonight.

KASPAROV: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: So, as the U.S. response, to Russia's attacks, on Ukraine, no country is watching more closely than China, which has had long designs, on Taiwan, and makes no secret of it. Now, with concerns about that threat growing, the United States is beefing up forces, in that region.

Earlier tonight, I spoke with Leon Panetta, who served as Defense Secretary, in the Obama administration, and CIA Director, in the Clinton White House. I also asked him, about the breaking news, the suspected Chinese spy balloon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us.

So, how concerned, should Americans be, about the possibility of war, breaking out with China? I mean, the fact that the U.S. Defense Secretary traveled to the Philippines, to formally increase U.S. military capabilities there. But what does that signal?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR & DEFENSE SECRETARY, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, FORMER CLINTON White House CHIEF OF STAFF, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: Well, it signals that the relationship with China remains very tense.

And obviously, the Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, is going to be going there, this week. And that will give us a further sense of just how tense the relationship is.

[21:15:00]

But it's pretty clear that China, and President Xi, have obviously been a lot more aggressive, about their military presence, South China Sea, their threats on Taiwan.

Their approach, generally, to governing, has been much more aggressive than in the past. And it raises concerns. And for that reason, I think it's very important, for the United States, to be taking whatever steps, are necessary, in order to be able to deal with whatever threat, China represents.

BERMAN: And there are more steps as well. There's also this new U.S. base, in Guam, and increased military cooperation with Japan. How do you expect China to react, to all of the U.S. activity, in the region?

PANETTA: Well, there's no question they'll be nervous. We've not only improved our position, in Guam, we're in the process of improving, our position, in Japan as well, in Okinawa.

And, in addition to that, obviously, this announcement that we're going to have access, to additional bases, in the Philippines, represents a very important step, for the United States. But also, it gives the United States, some additional capability, with regards to having to defend Taiwan, if necessary, or the South China area, in some way. It represents a real step, in improving our capability, in the Pacific.

BERMAN: Do you believe the U.S. government is hoping that China views the U.S. support, for Ukraine, as something of a blueprint, of what the U.S. might do, for Taiwan, if one were to (ph) break out there? And do you think China would give any second thoughts about attacking because of it?

PANETTA: I don't think there's any question that Xi is paying attention, to what's happening in Ukraine. And that's one of the reasons, it's so important, for the United States, and our NATO allies, to do everything, we can, to make sure that Ukraine prevails against Russia.

The message that we send to Putin, frankly, has to be the same message we send to Xi, with regards to Taiwan. If the United States is able to develop strong alliances, and be able to defend, against any aggression, on their part, that's a very important message, to send, to our adversaries.

BERMAN: So, as we've been talking about, tonight, a Pentagon spokesperson says they have been tracking a high-altitude Chinese surveillance balloon, over the continental United States, for the past several days.

Now, the United States has decided against shooting it down, saying it doesn't present any military or physical threat, to people, on the ground. The Pentagon says it's not the first incident, of this kind, over the years.

But what do you make of it?

PANETTA: Well, it raises a lot of very interesting questions. I mean, we know that China has the capability, to do surveillance, certainly by satellite, the use of drones, other ways, to be able to capture that information.

To use a large balloon, and send it over, to the United States, I guess, the first question that occurs to me, is does it contain a very sensitive cameras or equipment to pick up sensitive information that we would have? What's the reason for this large balloon, having to be used by China? I think that's something we need to get the answer to.

BERMAN: Mr. Secretary, Leon Panetta, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

PANETTA: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: So next, was it political payback, or keeping a promise, or both? Inside the vote, to remove a controversial Democrat, from the House Foreign Affairs Committee, while putting two controversial Republicans, back on the committees.

And later, a mother accused of killing her three children, and why her husband is asking people to forgive her.

[21:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Elections have consequences. That is a simple fact. Here's another. In the House, the Majority makes the rules, including who sits on certain committees, not, we might add, without controversy, especially today.

CNN's Manu Raju reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Like I was.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): House Republicans, in one of their first moves, in power, ousting Democrat Ilhan Omar, from a seat, on the Foreign Affairs Committee, over past remarks, condemned as anti-Semitic.

REP. MAX MILLER (R-OH): She has brought dishonor to the House of Representatives.

RAJU (voice-over): A 218 to 211 vote, a response to 2021, when Democrats booted Republicans, Paul Gosar and Marjorie Taylor Greene, from all of their committees, over their rhetoric.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Thank you all for coming.

RAJU (voice-over): But Speaker, Kevin McCarthy, claims this is different, since Omar can serve on other committees, just not Foreign Affairs.

RAJU (on camera): Is this the message you want to send to voters as you come into power here?

MCCARTHY: No. And that's the clear part how it's not tit for tat.

We're not removing her from other committees. We just do not believe, when it comes to Foreign Affairs, especially the responsibility of that position, around the world, with the comments that you make.

RAJU (voice-over): Then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi set the precedent, in 2021. But told CNN, at the time, she was not concerned, the GOP might retaliate.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We would not walk away, from our responsibilities, for fear of something they may do, in the future.

RAJU (voice-over): Now, Democrats say the vote was an act of pure political vengeance.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): But what's going to take place on the floor today is not a public policy debate. It's not about accountability. It's about political revenge.

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): It's not justified.

RAJU (voice-over): But Omar has apologized, even signing onto a resolution, recognizing Israel, as a legitimate U.S. ally.

And today, defiant. OMAR: I am an immigrant, and interestingly, from Africa. Is anyone surprised that I am being targeted?

RAJU (voice-over): Even some Republicans uneasy about the vote.

REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): I'm not excited about the direction that we've started - the direction that we've kind of taken, this place, this tit for tat.

RAJU (on camera): How you feel about this being one of the first major actions, of the new Republican majority, to kick Ilhan Omar, off the committee?

[21:25:00]

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Well certainly, I am concerned, representing a swing district that we're distracted, from the real issues, facing Americans, who are struggling, talking about inflation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: And Manu Raju joins us now, from Capitol Hill.

Manu, the so-called, like due process part of this resolution that convinced, I guess, some reluctant Republicans, to support ousting Omar. Is it clear what that looks like? Could she get back on the committee somehow?

RAJU: Not under this resolution. In fact, that was one of the sharp criticisms that Democrats levied that the concerns that were raised, about due process, simply were not addressed, in the resolution that was approved, in the House.

Now, what Kevin McCarthy did behind-the-scenes, was try to assuage, some of those concerns, and some of those members, who were concerned, in the Republican Conference, including Nancy Mace, who you saw, I interviewed there, had those same due process concerns.

What he told me says that they could come up with a new process, going forward, and create new House rules, to allow members, to appeal any efforts, to try to kick them off the committee. Now, Mace is going to be part of this effort to try to deal with this, in the future, if another situation of this arises in the future. So, it would not necessarily apply to Ilhan Omar, here.

Now, this all started though, John in 2021, when Democrats kicked off Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paul Gosar, from their committee assignments. Never before had a Majority done that to a Minority party. They said it was justified.

But now, there's real concern, this will happen time and time again, unless something changes here. And some members are trying to change just that.

BERMAN: All right, Manu Raju, for us, on Capitol Hill.

Manu, Thank you.

Coming up, a seemingly happy and normal family, ripped apart, by tragedy. Three young children strangled, the only suspect is their mother. Why their father, the woman's husband, is asking people to forgive her? That's next.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: One in seven women can develop postpartum depression. We point to that data because it may, again, may, play a role, in a New England family's horrific tragedy.

The wife and mother, you see, on the screen is, tonight, accused of deliberately killing her three children. But her husband, those kids' father, is not only grieving, he's showing grace, asking others, for compassion, toward the woman he loved, even as she faces potential murder charges.

Our Miguel Marquez, tonight, with the disturbing details that may speak to a larger issue, in our society.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An act beyond comprehension.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got two pediatric arrests in the basement.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Plymouth County, Massachusetts, 32-year-old mother, Lindsay Clancy, accused of assault, strangulation, and murder, of her 5-year-old daughter, Cora, her 3-year-old son, Dawson, and her 8-month-old son, Callan.

DONNA JESSE, CLANCY FAMILY MEMBER: They were just beautiful, beautiful children, well-cared for, they were just beautiful.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): All three children found January 25th, in the basement, of their Duxbury, Massachusetts home. "Unconscious," says the District Attorney, exhibiting "obvious signs of severe trauma." Two died that night. The third, the 8-month-old died, two days later.

Their mother attempted suicide. She survived.

In the voices, of first responders, anxiety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Received. Go to the basement cap! Go down. Go to the basement!

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Debbie Heath's son, a firefighter, responded that night.

DEBBIE HEATH, SON WAS FIRST RESPONDER: It's still bothering him, today. And, you know, yesterday, when - when it's quiet, that's when you start. You're alone with your thoughts. And, you know, he said he's had a little breakdowns here and there.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Lindsay Clancy, who worked, as a labor and delivery nurse, wrote, in private Facebook posts, viewed by the Boston Globe. Just weeks, after her third child was born, she wrote that she had struggled with postpartum depression, in the past, but was now feeling dialed-in, and had been focusing, on exercise, nutrition, and mindset.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just can't explain.

JESSE: It's just we're still understanding (ph).

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Patrick Clancy, husband to Lindsay, father to their now-deceased three kids, has asked the public, to forgive his wife.

"Our marriage was wonderful and diametrically grew stronger as her condition rapidly worsened. I took as much pride in being her husband as I did in being a father and felt persistently lucky to have her in my life. She loved being a nurse, but nothing matched her intense love for our kids and dedication to being a mother. It was all she ever wanted. Her passion taught me how to be a better father."

A GoFundMe page has been set up, for Patrick Clancy, to pay for funerals, medical bills, and an unknowable period of no work, no income, and, as he wrote, discovering his purpose.

Writing, on the GoFundMe page, Patrick Clancy, concluded, "Cora, Dawson, and Callan, you gave me so much in your short time here. I don't know if the pain will ever go away, but I'll do my best to carry on in your honor. Dada loves you so much and will always remember you."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: And Miguel Marquez is here with me.

Miguel, we're sitting here watching this. And it's, I mean, it's more than we can bear. And you see the pictures, these faces, on the screen. It is literally unbearable, to see this. So, I just want to state that.

MARQUEZ: Sure.

BERMAN: Given that, and I appreciate how hard it is for you to report this, given that, what is the condition, of the mother, tonight, and when or are formal charges expected?

MARQUEZ: An incredibly difficult story. I don't know these people at all. But my heart just goes out to them. And it is incredibly difficult to report.

She is in the hospital, in the Boston hospital. She is getting better. She's talking to family, right now, say officials. When she gets out of the hospital, they're still investigating, and when she gets out, she will face murder charges, and many other charges, by the time she gets out of that hospital. But just unfathomable sadness!

BERMAN: Miguel Marquez, I appreciate this report. And I know you've been in it all day, and I can only imagine, just the heartbreak that you feel, and everyone connected to this feels!

With us now, retired FBI Special Agent, and Profiler, Mary Ellen O'Toole.

Mary Ellen, thank you for being with us.

And, as we've been saying, this is just beyond heart-wrenching. And there's a lot we still don't know.

[21:35:00]

But you heard Miguel's reporting, there. And Lindsay Clancy had posted, in Facebook, about her past struggles, with postpartum depression. This is something that many women deal with. Yet, this is so awful. It's hard to compare anything to this.

I mean, what's your sense of what could have happened, in this tragedy?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT - PROFILER, DIRECTOR, FORENSIC SCIENCE PROGRAM AT GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: Well, as more comes out, it's possible that on that dimension of postpartum depression, hers was far worse than that, and may have even become and as - she may have been in a state of, of being almost delusional, and not really necessarily, unlike the case of Andrea Yates, some 21 years ago, who also suffered, from postpartum depression, but it was so severe, it was so debilitating, that it was really, at the psychotic level.

So, I think we need to hear just how bad this depression really was for her.

BERMAN: One of the things you've said is that in her mind, she may not think what she did was wrong. And that's hard, I think, for a lot of people to wrap their heads around. But explain what you mean there.

ELLEN O'TOOLE: Well, part of it may also include that she may have had, if it was as severe, as say, in the Andrea Yates case, she may have believed that in order to save her children, some religious belief, for example, she needed to kill them, which of course, your viewers cannot even fathom, because it is unfathomable.

But depending on the state of her mental illness, she may have believed that because of this postpartum depression that is so severe and, as part of that, she wanted to die with them. So again, it becomes really important to understand, did she see this, as a way, to save her children, from something that she believed, was possibly worse, for them?

BERMAN: What do you make of the Father's reaction, here? Again, it's impossible for any of us to know what's going on, in his head. But asking the public for forgiveness for his wife? ELLEN O'TOOLE: I know we expect to have heard him say that he hated his wife, he doesn't even know what to say.

This is a catastrophic event, for this family and, specifically, for him. But here's the issue. We don't know how the father typically handles grief, and being upset. So, in a case, like this, we would have to go back and see how he handled loss, and grief, and terrible events, in his past. This may be consistent with that.

And of course, the stages of death and dying are very complicated. And frankly, he could be - he could continue to be in shock. He doesn't even know what else to say. But I think as the days and months go on, I think we're going to see and hear different sentiments come out.

BERMAN: Mary Ellen O'Toole, thank you for helping us understand the incomprehensible, tonight. Appreciate it.

ELLEN O'TOOLE: You're welcome.

BERMAN: As Miguel's piece noted, Lindsay Clancy did attempt to take her own life.

We want to remind everyone about the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. It's easier than ever, to reach someone, who could provide free and confidential help, 24 hours a day. Just call or text 988. 988 for the Lifeline. You can also go to 988lifeline.org, to chat live, with a trained counselor there, as well.

We'll be right back.

[21:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So, this broadcast has had a lot of fun, exploring the new technology, known as ChatGPT.

Last week, we showed you how this artificial intelligence program could write a pretty good cable news intro.

And last night, we introduced you to a Princeton student's new tech that can detect whether a human or bot wrote something.

But there is one question we haven't answered about this fascinating new software that can mimic the research, and writing, involved in a well-crafted essay or story, and that can turn what used to be hours of work, into seconds. And that question is, "Will it take my job?"

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has the answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Which jobs is A.I. coming after first?

SHELLY PALMER, PROFESSOR OF ADVANCED MEDIA, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: If you're a middle manager, you're doomed. Any kind of commodity sales person, report writers and journalists, accountants and bookkeepers and, oddly enough, doctors, who are looking - who specialize on things like drug interactions.

YURKEVICH (on camera): Do you mean out of a job?

PALMER: No.

YURKEVICH (on camera): Or you mean that part of your job?

PALMER: That part.

YURKEVICH (on camera): OK.

PALMER: Yes.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): That's the relief a lot of Americans are looking for, right now. The explosion of ChatGPT and A.I. platform showed us it could do a lot of what we humans do at work, and faster.

YURKEVICH (on camera): Will it take my job?

PALMER: Yes and no. It's not going to replace you. Someone who knows how to use it well is going to take your job, and that's a guarantee.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): By 2025, the World Economic Forum predicts that 85 million jobs will be displaced, by automation and technology. But it will also create 97 million new roles.

We have seen it before in the auto industry.

PALMER: While the auto worker may be displaced because they are not as good at welding, or as painting, as the robot, there's probably 35 people that have to be involved, in the creation and maintenance, of that device that welds better than a person.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): And that's what happened, at Carbon Robotics, former auto workers, now building an A.I. LaserWeeder, in Detroit, for farms.

PAUL MIKESELL, FOUNDER & CEO, CARBON ROBOTICS: It's a direct result of the history of auto manufacturing that we have that skill set available to us all in one place.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): The LaserWeeder, still operated by a human, but run by A.I., can do the work of between 40 to 80 people, says the CEO, filling roles that are hard to find humans for.

MIKESELL: Labor is harder and harder to find, every year, particularly farm labor. And an A.I. system, like ours, that can do that job automatically, it saves a lot of time, money, effort.

(MUSIC)

[21:45:00] YURKEVICH (voice-over): This music is composed, solely by artificial intelligence, called AIVA. It even has an album you can stream. A.I. music is more affordable. There is no producer, composer or artist to pay.

KARL FOWLKES, ENTERTAINMENT AND BUSINESS ATTORNEY, THE FOWLKES FIRM: It's taken away opportunity, from songwriters, producers and artists, right, so, the people are trying to feed them - their families.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Something similar is happening, in the art world, leading Artist, Karla Ortiz, and two others, to file a class action lawsuit, against three A.I. art companies, for copyright infringement. Ortiz claims they are using her name, and art, to train the A.I.

KARLA ORTIZ, ARTIST: It's feast and famine for most of us. We go job by job. And what happens when there is a little bit less work to go around?

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Stability AI, one of the companies named, says the suit misunderstands how A.I. and copyright law work, adding, it intends to, quote, "Defend ourselves and the vast potential generative AI has to expand the creative power of humanity."

The two other companies did not respond.

ORTIZ: I'd never thought we'd be here. It's like straight out of a sci-fi movie.

SONNY, FICTIONAL CHARACTER PLAYED BY ALAN TUDYK (VIA VOICE AND MOTION CAPTURE), "I, ROBOT": My father tried to teach me human emotions.

PALMER: There's a wonderful scene in the movie, "I, Robot." Detective Spooner hates robots. And he says?

DETECTIVE DEL SPOONER, FICTIONAL CHARACTER PLAYED BY WILL SMITH, "I, ROBOT": Can a robot write a symphony? Can a robot turn a canvas into a beautiful masterpiece?

PALMER: And the robot looks up and he goes?

SONNY: Can you?

PALMER: Every one of us is not Mozart or Rembrandt or Picasso, or choose your super famous, amazing artist or artisan. We're just people. This is not coming to kill us. It's coming to help us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: That's what they always say! "It's coming to help us." That's what they said at the beginning of "The Terminator!"

Vanessa Yurkevich joins us now.

Vanessa, you've talked to us about the top five jobs that this technology will take. What about the last five jobs it will take? And where does like occasional fill-in Anchor, rank there?

YURKEVICH: Well, unfortunately, you're considered a journalist. So, you are in the top five jobs that AI will take first.

But I just want to be clear. Artificial intelligence will touch every job, at some point. However, the top five jobs have one thing in common, the top five jobs that be taken last? Humanity. They are a preschool or elementary school teacher, professional athlete, politician, judge and mental health professional. This all requires human nature.

A preschool teacher, wanting to give a hug, to their preschool student, who may be upset; a judge, who needs to cast judgment; and a politician, well, I mean, they have interesting, unique qualities that I don't know maybe they just have. But the idea is that these will be very hard to replace, solely, with artificial intelligence. But artificial intelligence could help them as a tool in some way just, like it could help you, and I, John, in some way, but definitely not take our jobs.

BERMAN: The preschool teachers, I think, we can all get behind. Politicians? Meh!

Look, this is fascinating, Vanessa. This is a terrific piece. And I think the philosophical questions here, it's where it gets very, very interesting. Thank you very much.

YURKEVICH: Yes.

BERMAN: Coming up, new images of a once-in-50,000-year event, the historic visit, from a green comet. That's next.

[21:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: The suspected Chinese spy balloon, high above the U.S. that we reported on earlier, it's not the only object, in the sky, people are talking about, tonight.

We just got this new image in, of an historic event, and an equally historic location.

A green hued comet, that has not been visible in the night sky, since the Stone Age, that's about 50,000 years ago, it was recently photographed above Stonehenge, in England. As close as the comet got to Earth, it was still a ways away more than 100 times the distance to the moon. But it is a rare and historic treat to see it.

I'm joined now by Adam Frank, Professor of Astrophysics, at the University of Rochester.

Professor Frank, thank you so much for being with us.

How significant is this comet? And did you get a chance to see it yourself? ADAM FRANK, PROFESSOR OF ASTROPHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER: Well, the thing that's really cool about this is time, right?

If you think of the comet as it goes around, in its orbit, is like a clock? Then the last time that the hands were pointing to, where it is now, was the Ice Age, essentially, when there was two miles of ice, above my head, in Rochester, and the entire world's population could fit into Cleveland.

So, it's just, what this really shows us is these comets are visitors, from the dawn of time in many ways. And it's just such an amazing thing to think about. The last time this comet went by, it was all forests. And now it's New York City and TikTok! So the comet's pretty - probably pretty surprised!

BERMAN: Well, I missed it last time and, this time. So now I have to wait another 50,000 years?

FRANK: Well, actually, it's possible, this comet, a comet like this, which is coming from very far out, like, literally almost a light year away, at the very edges of the Solar System? It's possible this comet's going to leave that actually interactions with Saturn or Jupiter are going to give it just enough energy that it's never coming back.

BERMAN: It was just discovered. And this is unusual, also. It was just discovered last March. So, how common is it to discover something that old?

FRANK: Well, there's two kinds of comets. There's the ones that come around, less than every 200 years, like Halley's every, what is it? I think, 75 years or so, Halley comes by.

But these comets are so far out that really you only pretty much catch them once. You catch them the first time that they're coming in, because often they'll fall into the sun, or once they're gone, they're not coming back forever, or for 50,000 years.

So it's this new telescope technology, amazing technology we have that can pick up faint objects, in the sky, as they change position, one night after the other. It's taking like pictures of the entire sky every night. So, it's because of that Transient Telescope, we call that that we're able to catch more of these. And soon, we'll probably be catching a lot more of these intruders, from the edge of the Solar System.

BERMAN: I keep looking at the pictures, because they're just stunning! We've about 30 seconds left.

I understand the comet can be differentiated from the stars because it has that streaking tail of dust and energized particles around it, as well as something called a green coma surrounding it.

What exactly is a coma, in this context? And where does the green come from?

[21:55:00]

FRANK: Yes. So, a comet is basically a giant mountain of mush, of frozen mush. And as it comes in towards the sun, it heats up. And as it heats up, the ices begin to melt and vaporize. And so, the coma is sort of this gas and plasma that's surrounding the comet that just recently went from the ice state, to the gaseous state.

And the green comes from actually light from the sun, ripping apart molecules, like cyanide, or carbons that - two carbon atoms that are glued together. And so, it's that that green hue is telling you that the surface of the comet is kind of being torn apart, by the intense light from the sun.

BERMAN: Yes.

Again, if you missed it, this time, it may not exist, in a few more years, because it may get torn apart. So don't get upset!

Professor, great to talk to you, thank you very much, really helping us understand, this marvel that we have seen.

FRANK: It was a real pleasure. Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. The news continues. "CNN TONIGHT" with Laura Coates is next, right after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)