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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Centuries Of History Come To Life In Coronation; Russia Strikes Kyiv, Baselessly Blames US For Kremlin Attack; Both Sides Rest In Trump Battery Civil Trial; Officials: Man Dies After Being Put In A Chokehold By Another Rider On NYC Subway; D.A. Is Investigating; Michigan Voters On Whether Biden Is Too Old To Run Again; Meet The Hollywood Composer Who Wrote King Charles' Coronation March. Aired 8- 9p ET
Aired May 04, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But one study has indicated, AI worldwide could affect up to 300 million jobs -- Pam.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Tom Foreman, thank you.
And thank you for joining us tonight.
AC 360 starts right now.
[20:00:16]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening from London.
In less than two days and for the first time in nearly 70 years, this country will crown a new monarch. Saturday morning, Charles III accompanied by Queen Camilla will make his way in a procession from Buckingham Palace to Westminster Abbey for a ceremony last carried out for his mother, Queen Elizabeth II back in June of 1953.
Seventy years, in other words. For some at least, this is literally a once in a lifetime event. People are certainly treating it that way. They've been camping out along the procession route, some for days now wearing Union Jack's Royal regalia and other patriotic knickknacks, young and old, sleeping under tarps and tents on makeshift cots.
And all around the city, everything from lanes to landmarks are decked in flags or lit up large for the occasion.
Take a look at Big Ben there, 300 feet tall embodying centuries of history as it has never been seen before. Images of the national plants of England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and projected on it, and words dancing over it, including for until Queen Elizabeth died, that had not been heard since 1952, "God save the King."
Not far from there, Westminster Abbey security tight as it is all around this city where Saturday morning, the King and Queen will arrive in a coach built for the King's mother on the 60th anniversary of her coronation.
There's certainly a lot to cover. That's a bit about the circumstances. We'll talk more about the pomp and ceremony and certainly the public relations of crowning a King.
I'm joined tonight by CNN's Max Foster. What is the mood like in London as these preparations continue?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Charles isn't as popular a figure as his mother was as his children are perhaps, but there is definitely excitement about the sense of history that you've just outlined there. This is something that we haven't seen for 70 years.
And when you talk about pomp and pageantry, something Brits are known for, and this is peak pomp.
COOPER: Peak pomp.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER (voice over): For more than a thousand years, the coronation ceremony for English monarchs has remained largely unchanged.
King Charles will walk into Westminster Abbey in the footsteps of his ancestors. ancient symbols like the Stone of Scone, seized from Scotland by King Edward in the 13th century, and used in coronations ever since, brought to London for Saturday's event.
The Palace says he also wants to reflect modern Britain and look to the future. The challenge will be how to do both during a cost of living crisis.
Charles will be crowned with the St. Edward's crown, the very same one placed upon previous monarchs. Crown Jewels will feature including scepters, a golden orb, and various swords each with their own symbolism. He'll wear robes that have been passed down through the generations.
The anointing, the most sacred spiritual part of the service will be hidden from view by a special screen, one of the only newly made pieces for the coronation, because Charles, who's always been known for his environmental campaigning has been keen to emphasize reuse.
He'll be welcomed to the abbey first by a young chorister, to whom he'll say, "I come not to be served, but to serve."
Inclusivity is at the top of his agenda. The ceremony will be conducted by the Archbishop of Canterbury, the most senior member of the Church of England after the King.
JUSTIN WELBY, ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY: It looks to surround our society and seeks to reflect us as we are with joy and celebration.
FOSTER (voice over): For the first time, people of multiple faiths will have a role. Even the Pope has sent a gift, fragments believed to be of Jesus' Cross, which had been incorporated into this new one, which will lead the coronation procession.
Symbols the new monarch hopes will be enough to reflect his continued relevance in the modern world whilst honoring sacred tradition.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And along with Max Foster tonight, we're joined by CNN Royal historian, Kate Williams.
Max, is there an attempt to sort of make this more modern or is this all about tradition?
FOSTER: It's about both.
So speaking to people in the Palace, their starting point was King Edgar's coronation, I am checking the date, 973, that is where they are built from.
And so what they want to do is be true to that, be true to the Queen's coronation, so someone watching the Queen's coronation will recognize what they see on Saturday, but also making it relevant to a young teenager who may be from Indian descent, for example.
So going back to the Queen's father's coronation, I mean, their revolution was inviting four members of the working classes to attend, that was them opening --
COOPER: That was the big thing.
[20:05:00]
FOSTER: If you look at what's happening on Saturday, there is going to be a big transformation. It is not just going to be Lords and Ladies, even the Queen's coronation was, you know, you had to be related to someone to be invited.
It will be open to public servants, all sorts of different people, young people, crucially. The first person he is going to meet is a young boy, that's really symbolic, bringing young people in, but also really, essentially to what is a sacred Christian event.
There will be members of -- representatives from other religions -- Judaism, Hinduism, for example, actually involved in the service. So there's lots of modernization.
COOPER: Kate, it is -- I mean, coming from the United States, it's crazy to hear that this ceremony goes back to 973, was it? I mean, that's remarkable.
KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: It is an incredible spectacle, and as a historian, it's really mind blowing to watch this because Royal weddings and Royal funerals, they are quite similar to how we might have a wedding or a funeral in our usual lives, but we never get a coronation, and no other monarchy in Europe has a coronation.
We have to go to Japan for similar types of setups, and so the earliest coronation that we're getting back to in Westminster Abbey is William the Conqueror in 1066, who brought in the anointing and all the ideas. And when we watch Charles sit on that coronation chair that dates from the 1300, built to house the Stone of Scone that was stolen from Scotland, you know, people who sat in that chair, Henry VIII, Victoria, Elizabeth I, and they've worn the equivalent of St. Edward's crown, not the actual one, because that was melted down in the Civil War by Oliver Cromwell.
But it's just the kind of history and tradition of monarchy. Charles is the 40th monarch crowned. And yet, at the same time, as Max was saying, trying to make it modern, trying to make it open to a world in which there's more questioning about monarchy.
COOPER: And Prince Harry will be here. And obviously, William has a big role in this.
FOSTER: Yes, so William has a role and also, George has a role, he will be part of the procession and that's the first time someone that young has been involved in an actual service like this.
Harry was invited, and he's coming; Meghan is staying home. This is Archie's birthday. What role -- he won't have a formal role, but I do expect to see him being given quite a prominent seat, actually, I'm going to stick my neck out on that, because he is the son of the King.
The bigger question is whether or not he'll come back here afterwards and appear on the balcony with the rest of the family. I think that, you know, we're not being told from either side whether that's going to happen.
I will tell you, the whole of the front of the Palace is a building site, and they have to literally step over planks of wood to get to the balcony.
COOPER: Is that right?
FOSTER: So if you have to think about it, you have to get everyone out there.
COOPER: And Kate, I mean, it is remarkable when you think William will be watching this knowing that one day he will be in this role. His son, who I think is nine, is that right -- will also be watching it knowing that assuming the monarchy continues, he too will one day have a day like this.
WILLIAMS: It is so remarkable, and to think that Charles watched it just as a four-year-old, his mother being crowned in 1953 and Elizabeth herself, she watched it age 11, watching her father and of course her mother being crowned, too. That's what we haven't since seen since 1937.
The monarch crowned with his spouse, the Queen was crowned alone, there's no role for a spouse of a female monarch. So it's amazing to think that George is going to be sitting there, such a little boy, and he is having his coronation celebrations at school like all the school children have across the UK, and those coronation celebrations for him are so different, but one day -- COOPER: He has been having coronation celebrations just like everyone else.
WILLIAMS: Yes. We heard the Princess of Wales was saying the children had been having their coronation celebrations. There was, you know, all kinds of things going on at schools and he's been doing the same. And then in maybe 50 years' time, he will himself be sitting on that chair, just as his father and grandfather did.
And it's amazing to think that when Charles gets up from that coronation chair, and as soon as Edwards crown is taken off his head, the next person to wear that will be William V.
FOSTER: Yes, he wears it once.
COOPER: What are you going to be watching for?
FOSTER: I mean, it's the -- I mean, the central point of it is the anointing which is when they become a representative for God on earth. I mean, that's really what happens.
There was a debate early on about whether or not they should televise that. The Queen's wasn't televised. There is a big hoo-ha about whether or not the Queen's service should be televised at all.
COOPER: Right, the Queen's by the way, her coronation was the first to ever be televised, but they didn't televise the part where, you know, the very religious part of it.
FOSTER: So we thought the progression here would be we would see that. Charles, after much consideration has decided that he wants to have a personal moment of thought in the middle of the service. So there will be a screen there. But there are actually a couple of seats in the abbey that will see it, so...
WILLIAMS: We are seeing committed anointing, aren't we? I mean that is really quite -- a real revolution, I think. Not only are we seeing Camilla crowned with Charles, I mean, only in 2020 was the palace saying that Camilla was still going to be Princess Consort, and now she is Queen, she is being crowned.
We are also seeing her anointing when we're not seeing Charles'.
COOPER: Kate, appreciate it. Max, thank you so much.
A lot to look forward to. The world also watching this, the aftermath to a pair of drone strikes in Moscow at the Kremlin which include tense moments today in the skies over Kyiv.
[20:10:10]
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
COOPER: That is Ukrainian Defense Forces shooting down a drone late today over Kyiv. Officials say, it was not Russian, but actually one of their own which malfunctioned and had to be destroyed. No one was hurt on the ground.
Meantime, the circumstances of yesterday's incident, the Kremlin, they remain murky and disputed with the latest being Russia claiming American involvement. The White House denies it and earlier today the Director of National Intelligence said the intelligence community doesn't yet have enough information to say who carried out the attack.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine tonight. He joins us now.
As we said. the drone shoot down in Kyiv was a case of intentional bringing down to the Ukrainian drone. There were multiple air attacks however on Kyiv and Odessa in the past 24 hours. What's it been like?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly, the last wave over the last night was relatively well- repelled by Ukraine's air defenses.
All that went for the Capitol appear to have been shot down and for Odessa in the south, only three apparently got through hitting buildings. We don't have a casualty read necessarily on that, sometimes a military target hit, we don't know the full extent of what's occurred.
But the relative success of air defenses last night, not something that can be said for the horrifying scenes in Kherson City, which yesterday before the Kremlin even made their curious at times, unsupportable announcement that the Kremlin had been attacked by drones. There were over 20 people killed by Russian shelling of a supermarket, a railway station in Kherson.
So we are seeing a pattern here, Anderson, some frankly, night by night sirens in cities like this, the occasional flash on the sky. Last night, Kyiv got away with the air defense protecting it, but Ukrainians frankly go to sleep every night deeply concerned that Russia's rage will again translate into drones or missiles landing in civilian areas here -- Anderson.
COOPER: The Kremlin wasn't the only place on Russian soil that allegedly came under attack from drones. There were some fires at oil refineries and fuel depots near the Russian border, I understand. What are Russian authorities saying about that?
WALSH: Yes, Russia's investigative committee has said, they will be launching an investigation into a UAV attack, a drone attack against a water tower, a drone attack against an oil refinery in Bryansk as well.
It is hard frankly, to keep track of the number of explosions that we are seeing on the border areas inside of Russia normally against critical infrastructure -- on oil refineries, railways, multiple attacks over the last week on the railway system in Bryansk. And it's unclear whether this is the work of Russian partisans operating inside Russia, or somehow related to Ukrainian activity.
They've always denied attacks inside of Russia, never more specifically so after the Kremlin incident, whatever that really was, but a real sign certainly that Russia's critical infrastructure is coming under attack as we near the Ukrainian counteroffensive whether or not that has indeed already started -- Anderson.
COOPER: A Ukrainian nuclear safety officials are also accusing the Russian military of placing what they say is military equipment, weapons and explosives in one of the units at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. Do you know more on that and what the risk of any kind of nuclear incident might be because of that?
WALSH: Yes, we don't have independent evidence of these claims of weapons being put, explosives being put inside the nuclear power plant. You'll remember, Anderson months ago, this was, again, a deeply troubling issue, frankly, from Europe, they have gone to see this nuclear power plant, essentially, far too close to the frontline here caught, not in the crossfire, but in the rhetorical battle between both sides.
It seems again, according to Ukrainian officials, that there are concerns Russia may again be putting military assets near there to perhaps protect them or to perhaps bring the power plant itself somehow into the mix here in the event of intensified clashes.
But I think we are going to see in the days ahead here, a real escalation as Ukraine begins to move forward in its counteroffensive. The weather has significantly dried up here and we can't tell you all that we see owing to reporting restrictions from the Ukrainian military, but it is clear, there is a lot of movement around and obviously in Zaporizhzhia, that is often thought to be the focus of where this counteroffensive may be, and that is indeed where the power plant is.
But concerns frankly, across the board since the statement about the Kremlin yesterday from Moscow of what sort of retaliation we may end up seeing from Moscow, if indeed, they have anything left in their conventional arsenal, but again, another reason why in the dead of night like now, Ukrainians are not always sleeping so comfortably -- Anderson.
COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh, be careful. Thank you.
[20:15:08]
Next, both sides rest in the Donald Trump battering defamation trial where jurors heard for the first time parts of Trump's deposition in which he insults the appearance of plaintiff, E. Jean Carroll's attorneys, also how the judge today left open the possibility of the former president might still testify in person.
Later, also questions about the killing of a homeless man in the New York subway by another rider in a chokehold. Now, the incident has shocked and divided New Yorkers and people around the country.
More ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: There is breaking news tonight in the Trump documents investigation including a late word the special counsel now has the help of a Mar-a-Lago Insider.
"The New York Times" headlines speaks volumes, "Justice Department intensifying efforts to determine if Trump had documents."
The sub headline says even more it reads, "Prosecutors investigating the former president's handling of classified material have issued a wave of new subpoenas and obtained the confidential cooperation of a witness who worked at Mar-a-Lago." The report goes on to say the focus is on whether the former president attempted to hide documents after a Justice Department subpoena last May.
Separately today, both sides rested in E. Jean Carroll's civil lawsuit against the former president. She is alleging he raped her at a New York department store in the 1990s.
The former president neither testified nor presented a defense, he did whoever talk about taking the stand, something the judge today left the door open to.
For more, I want to go to CNN's Kara Scannell outside the federal court in Lower Manhattan.
So, what is the former president saying exactly and how is the judge handling it?
[20:20:07]
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson after Trump's attorney rested their case today, this was outside the presence of the jury, the judge in a real surprise move here said he was going to give Trump until 5:00 PM on Sunday in case he had any second thoughts about not testifying. Now, the judge said he was doing this as a precaution because of comments that the former president made on a golf course in Ireland, there he said that he was having to return to the US to confront this accuser meaning E. Jean Carroll in this case.
That left a lot of questions earlier today about whether he was in fact returning to the US and if he was going to appear in court. So the judge said, he would give him the opportunity.
Now, he said, it doesn't mean he would grant this if Trump did come back and say he wanted to testify and Trump's attorney express that this was highly unlikely that he would, but the judge giving him this potential opportunity to reopen the case and testify -- Anderson.
COOPER: The jury heard the infamous "Access Hollywood" tape again today and portions of the former president's video deposition in this case, what did he say in those clips?
SCANNELL: Well, Anderson, the jury saw about 30 minutes of Trump's deposition today, including a portion where Trump is being forced to watch this "Access Hollywood" tape where he famously says he just kisses women, you know, he is the star, they're allowed to do it. So he is forced to watch this and respond to it. Now, his demeanor in this video, he doesn't really show any sort of reaction, any kind of response to it. And then he's asked questions about it.
And, you know, one of them is Trump says on the tape, the "Access Hollywood" tape that way, you know, when you're a star, you're allowed to do these things.
So he was asked about, you know, why did you think you could do these things, and he essentially said that it is, as he put it historically true with stars that they can do that sort of thing.
He was asked if he considered himself a star, he said that he did. And then he was also asked about the key defamation claims in this case, and Trump owned those statements.
He said he personally wrote them himself that he did not know who E. Jean Carroll was, that she was not his type and he called her allegations of the rape in the mid-1990s a hoax.
Now, he went further than that and he was saying that he didn't mean it is an insult to Carroll, but that thing that she was not his type, and he looked at Carroll's attorney and said, you're not my type either. That was part of the deposition that was played today -- Anderson.
COOPER: And another friend of E. Jean Carroll's took the stand today. What did she have to say?
SCANNELL: Yes, this is the second friend of E. Jean Carroll who has testified in this case. Carroll's lawyers have called them to corroborate her testimony, her story. So this was a friend of hers who said that Carroll did tell her in the mid-1990s, she put it between 1994 and 1996. She said that she recalled they were in her kitchen, and Carroll told her that "Trump attacked her."
She said that Carroll was frenzied in recounting the story, and that she remembered unsolicited, this is the friend, the friend said that she told her not to go to the police because Trump was too powerful and he would bury her.
So it's an important witness for Carroll's team and trying to get someone to corroborate her version of events, these allegations of the rape in the department store dressing room in the 90s -- Anderson.
COOPER: Kara Scannell, appreciate it.
I want to get some perspective on the trial and what the jury might make of what they saw and heard. CNN anchor and senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Laura Coates joins us.
How problematic is that video deposition of the former president apparently kind of backing up what he said on the "Access Hollywood" tape, just saying that is something that celebrities can often have been able to do. LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: And normally, you wouldn't really have hearsay statements, right, statements made outside of the courtroom admissible. This is an exception that's admitted here in a civil case, because it is essentially a statement against his interest.
And more importantly, although this has been a Hollywood tape that's been out there since at least his first presidential campaign, it now gives even greater weight to that testimony, because now he is not the one testifying.
He did not appear at trial, he does not have to appear at trial in a civil case, which is very surprising to many people. But because he did not do so, because he is yet to testify, and may not ever testify now that the defense has said he will not, it gives greater weight to what was said and so he's not going to counter it. He will not clarify the statement.
And that just sort of rests there before the jury to consider, well then, is there more credit to be given to E. Jean Carroll's testimony?
COOPER: Kara Scannell just mentioned this, I want to play the clip of the former president who is in Ireland saying he'll head back to New York to appear at the trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have to go back for a woman that made a false accusation about me and I have a judge who is extremely hostile. And I'm going to go back and I'm going to confront this. This woman is a disgrace and it shouldn't be allowed to happen in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, it's not really clear as with many things, what he is saying. He is saying he's going to go back. He is not saying he's going to testify, just that he is going to go back and confront whatever that means in Trump speak.
[20:25:00]
COATES: Whenever that means, and of course, it does have actually a legal definition, right? You have the opportunity and the right to confront an accuser and to confront a witness testifying against you.
If he meant it in a legal sense, well, his attorney has contradicted that and said, he's not going to put on a case. He is not going to present evidence, he's not going to be the person to actually do so in a courtroom in a court of law.
The judge, however, is being very prudent here. Those statements seem to contradict what his attorney is saying and there is an abundance of caution that is really demonstrated by judges to ensure that somebody who otherwise has a right to confront one's accuser, who has a right to testify in a case will have every opportunity to do so. Why? Because most are just are afraid of being appealed in a way that says the judge did not do enough to secure and protect the rights of any one accused, even in a civil context.
But as the judge noted, unless he says he will intend to do so by Sunday, then that ship has sailed. Frankly, the fact that he already said he is not going to do so would mean that ship is well along the horizon at this point in time.
But out of an abundance of caution, given the stakes of a case like this, the actual person who is being accused, a former President, I suspect he is trying to extend that abundance of caution here.
COOPER: I want to ask you about the new developments in another case involving the former president. "New York Times" as we mentioned, is reporting tonight that the federal prosecutors investigating Mar-a- Lago documents have obtained a confidential cooperation of someone who worked at Mar-a-Lago.
The person's identity obviously hasn't been disclosed. Potentially, it sounds like I mean, that could be significantly depending on what access that person may have had.
COATES: Absolutely, Anderson.
I mean, think about this. Remember, it's not just that documents are no longer in the White House, that they were transported to Mar-a- Lago. It's also that there was a whole lot of intervening circumstances where the, the actual government was saying we'd like these back, the Archives, we know that you have something, please return them and was able to actually delineate certain things that were there.
So if there was a moment in time where documents were one, where they were not so supposed to be, they came after a subpoena and knowing that there was a subpoena active to try to retain and return these documents, documents removed, documents were put from one place to another in some effort to try to conceal documents or their existence or to keep them out of the rightful hands of the owner. Well, then that now thickens the plot here.
And so any cooperating witness, although the identity we do not yet know, I don't want to get ahead of my skis. The fact that you have somebody who might have some insight as to what happened once there was actual notice given that documents were knowingly on that premises, and were not returned well, what happened in the interim? That is the heart of Jack Smith's case.
COOPER: Yes, Laura Coates, great to have you on. Thank you so much.
In another high profile case, a federal jury in Washington found the Proud Boys chairman, Enrique Tarrio and three other members guilty of seditious conspiracy. A fifth was acquitted on the charge however, all five are also convicted of a variety of other serious charges all in connection with the January 6th attack on Congress.
Just ahead tonight, the story of a homeless man in New York who witnesses say yelled in violent language of passengers on the subway, about being hungry, thirsty and tired, of having nothing and about how he didn't care if he went to jail.
A witness said despite any aggressive and frightening behavior, Jordan Neely didn't attack anyone. Neely died after another rider put him in a chokehold. The reaction in the investigation, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:56]
COOPER: Governor Kathy Hochul today said that the family of a homeless man killed on a New York City subway train after another rider put him in a chokehold, quote, deserves justice.
Jordan Neely had been a Michael Jackson impersonator on the streets and subways, but had apparently fallen on hard times. A witness told CNN he'd been, quote, acting erratically on the subway train Monday, possibly frightening those on the train, nearly hadn't attacked anyone at the time he was put in the chokehold.
The medical examiner's office says the manner of death is homicide. Manhattan DA's office is now conducting an investigation. The story has provoked protests, gained national attention as it touches on a number of high profile issues including homelessness, mental health, and race.
Omar Jimenez has the story. We warn you, the video taken of the encounter is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Witnesses say it all started when Jordan Neely was acting erratically, as he reportedly said he was fed up and hungry.
JUAN ALBERTO VAZQUEZ, WITNESS TO SUBWAY INCIDENT: Started yelling, violence language. I don't care if I die, I don't care if I go into jail. I don't have any food. I don't have any beverage. I'm done. And then he put out the jacket, hearing (ph) on the floor.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Juan Alberto Vasquez was there and says despite any aggressive and frightening behavior, Neely hadn't attacked anyone, even if he was making passengers uncomfortable. Not long after, Vasquez says, another passenger came up behind Neely and put him in a chokehold.
Vasquez says he didn't hear any interaction between them beforehand. He just heard them fall to the ground. He shot this video minutes into the altercation.
VAZQUEZ: We arrive at the station, the doors open, all the people run away, and the guys stay in this position about eight or seven, eight minutes.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Another passenger appears to be helping restrain Neely. It's also unclear how long in total he was in the chokehold, since this didn't capture the start of it. But Neely later lost consciousness and was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital.
The medical examiner's office says he died because of compression of the neck, calling it a homicide. No charges have been filed. The Manhattan District Attorney's office says they're assessing all photo and video footage to identify and interview as many witnesses as possible.
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK: People who are dealing with mental health illness should get the help they need and not live on the train. And I'm going to continue to push on that.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Last year, New York City's Mayor Eric Adams was criticized for directing first responders and the NYPD to enforce a law allowing them to involuntarily commit people experiencing a mental health crisis as part of an attempt to address concerns about homelessness and crime.
Protests in support of Neely have called for answers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could have been somebody there to help him, broke it up or anything, stopped the whole situation. But it's like, at the same time, he don't deserve to lose a life. This will be on the train. I think he should still be alive today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ: And that last part is the main controversy here, that people feel, no matter what happened beforehand, that this shouldn't have ended in death.
[20:35:06]
Now, as for the person who did the chokehold, we reached out to who we believe is him. And when I identified myself as a reporter over the phone, he told me, I'm not interested in answering any of your questions, and then hung up. But sources have told CNN that he has spoken to police, and then he was released, as, of course, we still wait any announcement on potential charges. Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Omar Jimenez, appreciate it.
I'm joined by CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, who's a former NYPD Deputy Commissioner, also CNN Legal Analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney Joey Jackson. So, John, as you know, the medical examiner's office ruled this a homicide, said that nearly died from compression of the neck.
Do you expect the man who put him in a chokehold will be charged? I mean, I'm guessing a lot of it will depend on what witnesses on the train said, whether he appeared to be on the verge of violence, whether there was people felt threatened. What will go into that?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: The individual who put him in a chokehold, this 24-year-old former Marine, indicated in his interviews with police that he thought the man was getting ready to attack people when he threw his jacket down and put his hands in fists, but hadn't hit anybody yet, and that he felt his actions would prevent that imminent assault.
This is a case where Mr. Neely certainly shouldn't be dead, certainly was in need of help, was certainly in need of more help than he was getting. But the circumstances from a legal standpoint -- and I'll defer to Joey Jackson on this -- is going to be whether this man intended to kill him or should have known his actions could have led to his death.
And that is more likely to be a decision made by the district attorney about whether to bring charges and then whether a grand jury will indict on those charges. And there's a couple of ways to go about that.
COOPER: Joey, I mean, the witnesses in Omar's report said Neely was saying things like, I don't care if I die. I don't care if I go to jail, then taking off his coat. From a legal perspective, is that enough for other passengers to reasonably believe that Neely might do something violent even though he had not, at this point, attacked anyone, and that this same witness says they did not see a weapon?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so that's part of it, Anderson. Obviously, you have to look at what was stated, what was said, what he was doing, what was he communicating that could be perceived as a threat. But it goes beyond that. It's not only what a person is saying, it's what you believe and how they are actually acting.
Was there any furtive gestures that he was making towards any passengers? Were the passengers led to believe that they were in immediate fear of any attack? Based upon the immediacy of that attack, did now, the person who subdued him, did that individual -- because you are allowed under the law to protect yourself or to protect others -- what did that person believe to be occurring at the time?
Were those actions reasonable? And then when you get to the issue of the chokehold, Anderson, the issue is going to be, was that chokehold so sustained as to be disproportionate? And when he was in the chokehold, that is Mr. Neely, was he representing a threat of any kind at that point? So there's a lot to be parsed out, and I think there'll be a focus on the witnesses and what they specifically believed or felt.
You know, you don't have to be attacking anyone to use physical force. The issue then becomes, was there an immediacy such that you felt that he was about to use the physical force? That will all be assessed by prosecutors and police.
COOPER: John, this such strikes a chord, especially for people who live in big cities. I mean, we've all been -- you and I are New Yorkers -- we've all been on streets or in subways where there are people having what appear to be psychotic episodes or some sort of mental health crisis, screaming, seem threatening and it's a question of, you know, you're trapped on a train, what do you do? One wants citizens to help other citizens, this is a tough one. MILLER: Well, it is a tough one. And, you know, Anderson, you hit it on the head. There is no New Yorker who rides the trains, who hasn't had experience of an individual coming in, aggressive behavior, threatening behavior. And people tend to look at their shoes, close their eyes, and say, please don't make eye contact. Please don't pick me and hope that the thing passes.
Here's a situation where an individual decided to take action because he perceived a threat. But we've got to be realistic. In the post- George Floyd world, in the post-Eric Garner world, a racially charged case with a chokehold on video that results in the death of a man, this is going to raise ire, this is going to raise questions. It's going to bring controversy.
Politicians are already coming out of the woodwork to comment on it. The mayor asking people to withhold judgment for the investigation. A governor saying there must be consequences. So this is going to put the district attorney in a difficult position where he's going to have to rely on the law in the process.
[20:40:01]
COOPER: Yes. Appreciate it. Thanks. Both of you will continue to cover it.
Coming up, Senator Dianne Feinstein pushes back on fellow Democrats who want her to resign. Age also a factor, of course, for President Biden's reelection bid.
Our Jeff Zeleny is in the swing state of Michigan next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Senator Dianne Feinstein broke her silence today after several of her fellow Democrats had called for her resignation. They said her extended medical absence is delaying federal judicial appointments.
In a new statement, she said, quote, there's been no slowdown. She did acknowledge that Republicans have blocked some nominees from moving forward. Feinstein is 89 years old and recovering from shingle. She sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Her absence has left the committee evenly divided along party lines, despite Democrats overall Senate majority. She didn't say when she would return.
Age is, of course, also a factor for President Biden in his reelection bid. Polls show even Democratic voters are apprehensive. 45 percent told CBS News recently that he should not run, 89 percent of them cited his age.
Jeff Zeleny has more on the concerns of voters in the swing state of Michigan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHI HARRIS. GRAND RAPIDS CIVIC LEADER: And so now, we got somebody in there that's really concerned about working families and --
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kathi Harris doesn't know President Biden's exact age, and she says she doesn't much care.
HARRIS: You hear people say age is just a number until God takes him home and he has the strength right now to do what he needs to be doing for the country, I don't -- it doesn't bother me that he's -- whatever --
[20:45:02]
ZELENY (voice-over): Yet that does not mean she's enthusiastic for what's to come.
(on-camera): Do you get excited by the prospect of a second Biden term?
HARRIS: Do I get excited? No. I just think of, again, that craziness. I just -- I personally, Kathi, do not want to have to deal with that all over again.
ZELENY (voice-over): A week after declaring his bid for reelection, the President's TV ads are already here in Western Michigan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Biden, a president for all Americans.
ZELENY (voice-over): Where many people who helped him win four years ago admit they're not eager for another campaign.
KHARA DEWIT, GO-FOUNDER, SOUTH EAST MARKET: I personally only voted for him as a way to debunk Trump. I really thought our democracy was in jeopardy and wanted someone else.
ZELENY (voice-over): As we talk to voters like Khara DeWit, a respectful reluctance toward Biden comes through, even though she acknowledges she will likely support him again.
(on-camera): Is your vote for Biden next time to stop Trump again?
DEWIT: Yes, 100 percent.
ZELENY (voice-over): Former President Donald Trump faces a Republican primary contest of his own, but he's already part of the conversation here in Grand Rapids and surrounding Kent County, which he lost in 2020 after winning four years earlier.
Nancy Wagner said she voted for Trump, but recoils at the thought of a rematch.
NANCY WAGNER, MICHIGAN VOTER: Oh, I think it sounds awful. I think it sounds awful.
ZELENY (on-camera): Why do you think it sounds awful?
WAGNER: Well, I think we need a new generation of leaders. I think we need people with fresh ideas.
ZELENY (voice-over): It's too soon, of course, to know whether Biden and Trump will face off again, even if many Democrats believe the former president can unify them unlike anything else. Congresswoman Hillary Scholten, who last fall became the first Democrat to represent western Michigan in three decades, believes her party must better explain its accomplishments.
REP. HILLARY SCHOLTEN (D), MICHIGAN: I look at the approval ratings. You know, we know that there is, you know, still some dissatisfaction with national Democrats, despite everything that they have delivered on in the last two years.
ZELENY (voice-over): Signs of some achievements are easy to find, like projects from the landmark infrastructure law. But it's an open question whether Biden will be rewarded for it.
TERRY ALMQUIST, MICHIGAN VOTER: I think the president is not getting the credit for what he has done.
ZELENY (voice-over): Terry Almquist said Biden faces many challenges, but has so far, exceeded expectations.
ALMQUIST: It looks much better than I expected him to, but what can I say? I'm 80 years old myself, so he's one of my people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: Now, there is no escaping questions about the President's age. It comes up in virtually every conversation we had here. Some voters are concerned, others less so. But this is one of the main points that gets to the fact that a majority of Americans still are unsure that the President should be seeking reelection.
But in fact, he is. He has a two word response to anyone who asks a question about if he's fit for a second term. He says, "Watch me." Anderson, that's exactly what the voters here are doing.
COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Up next, more from here in London as preparations continue for this weekend's coronation. In moment, meet Academy Award nominated composer Patrick Doyle, known for writing musical scores for Harry Potter film, and Hamlet. Story of how King Charles asked him to compose a piece for Saturday's ceremony and what he's delivering.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:52:21]
COOPER: Welcome back. There are dozens and dozens of people of different roles in Saturday's coronation here in London. One of them is Hollywood composer Patrick Doyle. Chances are you may have heard his work in a film. Lately, though, he's been busy composing a new piece of music for the coronation, one of 12 commissioned by King Charles for the ceremony at Westminster Abbey on Saturday. With more, here's CNN's Isa Soares.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Scottish composer Patrick Doyle, it was the call of a lifetime.
PATRICK DOYLE, COMPOSER OF KING CHARLES III'S CORONATION MARCH: I was completely overwhelmed, in fact, blown away. I couldn't believe this. I was not remotely expecting it.
SOARES (voice-over): His agent on the phone with a message from Buckingham Palace asking him to compose the coronation march for King Charles.
(on-camera): What was that moment like?
DOYLE: It was very intimidating and very frightening for many, many reasons. I thought, this is going to be watched by millions of people. Not only that, it's King Charles who's been very supportive throughout my career. It's a huge responsibility. It's such a historic day. It's got to be my best work.
SOARES (on-camera): So talk to us about the brief. What do the brief entail?
DOYLE: He asked for it to be uplifting, triumphant and memorable, so no pressure. And they asked if the piece could be composed within a parameter of 4 minutes, because the whole day was so well planned that it down to last second, literally.
So I -- the piece came out eventually at 3 minutes and 55 with reverb for the Abbey.
SOARES (voice-over): Patrick Doyle is no stranger when it comes to writing music to strict time frames. He spent the last 35 years composing in Hollywood. From blockbusters like "Harry Potter", to "Thor", and Disney's Pixar "Brave".
(on-camera): Which one's your favorite? I know it's like picky picking your favorite child, but which one's your favorite?
DOYLE: Well, I certainly have such fond memories of my very first film, "Henry V", directed by Kenneth Branagh. That was an amazing opportunity for me, as it was my very first picture.
And as a result of that, Prince Charles saw the film and subsequently commissioned me to write a piece for the Queen Mother's 90th birthday because he loved the Non nobis Domine, the choral piece that comes in near the end of that picture.
[20:55:00]
SOARES (on-camera): How does it feel going from, you know, Hollywood royalty to this, to real royalty? DOYLE: In my 70th year, at the height of my career, to been asked to compose this iconic piece was an extraordinary privilege. And the thought of being in the Abbey on the 6th is stuff of rings really.
(MUSIC)
SOARES (on-camera): Isa Soares, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Look forward to hearing it.
Up next, more from London, including a newly unearthed photo of King George at his mother's coronation 70 years ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back from just outside Buckingham Palace. We've been talking about history repeating itself in this case after nearly 70 years. With that in mind, take a look at this newly unearthed photo. That's then-four-year-old Prince Charles.
I think I said King George just a minute ago, I apologize. It's King Charles, then-four-year-old, looking bored, as if he'd like to be any place else as his mother, Queen Elizabeth, takes the crown at her coronation nearly 70 years ago.
Now, that is, by no means, the only photo of a royal child being a kid over the years. Here's Prince William, now the heir to the throne, covering his eyes on the balcony of Buckingham Palace at a ceremony in 1988.
Decades later, here's William's oldest son, Prince George, at the same ceremony, looking kind of like his grandfather in 1953. And many will remember William's youngest son, Louis, then-four, at the Queen's platinum jubilee last June, covering his ears during the flyover.
He shushed his mother, Princess Catherine, and made other funny faces during the jubilee concert. We'll see if any young royals do anything similar this time.
In any case, be sure to watch our special coverage of King Charles coronation starting at 05:00 a.m. Eastern Time, Saturday here on CNN.
The news continues. "CNN PRIMETIME" with Abby Phillips starts now.
