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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Security Tightened Around Trump January 6 Judge; One-On-One With GOP Presidential Candidate Chris Christie; Ukraine Says It Foiled Plot To Assassinate President Zelenskyy; Trump's Threatening Post Flagged By Prosecutors To Judge; Former President's Lawyers Call It "Political Speech"; Oakland NAACP Calls For State Of Emergency Over Rampant Crime; CA Highway Patrol Officers Deployed In Oakland To Combat Crime; Idaho Legislature Scraps Committee Tracking Pregnancy Deaths; Comes After New Abortion Restrictions Implemented; Is It OK To Wear Shorts To The Office? Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 07, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: It's quite alarming because the bear was headed for Iraq and the prime minister there has now ordered an investigation because many of Baghdad's wealthy are now hoarding wild animals, and it is common for those animals to be grossly abused.
In fact, Baghdad is now calling on the public to call police if they see exotic animals loose on the streets or ending up on restaurant menus.
Thanks so much for joining us. AC 360 starts now.
[20:00:24]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360: Security tightened for Judge Tanya Chutkan as the former president of the United States rants about her and others online. This, as yet another Trump ally talks to investigators. The former governor of New Jersey and current presidential candidate, Chris Christie joins me live.
Also tonight, details on the plot Ukraine says it foiled to assassinate its president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
And in Oakland, California, burglary, theft, assaults are rising so quickly some community leaders are now pushing for a state of emergency.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
When 360 signed off Friday night, the former president had posted that day what appeared to be a veiled threat in his social network: "If you go after me," he wrote "I'm coming after you."
And in the past 72 hours, he has posted online attacks on the special counsel, his former vice president, and likely key witness against him, Mike Pence, and the judge overseeing the election interference conspiracy trial. Today, we observed additional security measures around Judge Tanya
Chutkan, though the US Marshal Service is not commenting on it, we have also learned that deputies spent part of the day discussing security plans for her.
As you know, the former president has said he wants her off the trial which he also wants moved from Washington, no sign that either of that is happening.
Late today, Trump lawyers filed their reply to special counsel, Jack Smith's application for protective order laying out certain rules for the evidence it turns over. In it, Smith cited Friday's apparent threat. Today's defense filing seeks fewer restrictions.
Also today, disgraced former New York City Police Commissioner, Bernie Kerik spoke with Jack Smith's team. Kerik as you may know, received a pardon from the former president and worked closely with disgraced New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani who is one of six unindicted co-conspirators cited in the former president's indictment.
We also learned that former Georgia lieutenant governor, Geoff Duncan was recently subpoenaed to testify before Fani Willis' Georgia grand jury, which could indict the former president in the coming days. None of which, polling shows appears to be costing him ground against his primary opponents, one of whom today finally managed to acknowledge the central fact of the 2020 election, but not on the first try.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Whoever puts their hand on the Bible on January 20th every four years is the winner.
DASHA BURNS, NBC NEWS: Okay, but respectfully, you did not clearly answer that question and if you can't give a yes or no one whether or not Trump lost, then how can --
DESANTIS: Of course, he lost.
BURNS: Trump lost the 2020 elections.
DESANTIS: Joe Biden is the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now, another Republican presidential contender, former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, what do you make of DeSantis response there?
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, look, I still don't think he answered it. Right? He lost. Well, we all know that, as a matter of law, he lost the election. Right?
The deeper question and the one that I think he is dodging is, do you believe it was a full and fair election? That's really the question. And with respect to the interviewer, I think she let him off the hook. I mean, in the end, did he lose? Of course, he lost, and I believe he
lost because he lost in a full and fair election.
COOPER: There is a lot of Republicans, I think the majority of Republicans in the country who do not believe it was a free and fair election.
CHRISTIE: Yes, well, I think that shows you the impact that Donald Trump has had on a lot of people and that impact started on election night, Anderson, because when he came out there that night at 2:30 in the morning and said, you know, we won the election, it's being stolen. People assumed that the president of the United States knows things they don't know.
And if you're also inclined to be supportive, you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and then that stuff has just seeped in. He has said any number of times, to me both personally and I have even heard him say to others, you say something enough times it becomes true, and that is clearly his philosophy on everything he's doing right now to the American people.
COOPER: And I know in your book you wrote about that moment as being the key moment for you that you were like, all right, enough.
CHRISTIE: Yes.
COOPER: We see how the former president is behaving, the rhetoric against the judge, the prosecution, even Mike Pence, is this just free speech or more?
CHRISTIE: Look, I mean, I think the judge will decide that ultimately. To me, though, there are always limits on free speech. I mean, this is the classic, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. I mean, there are limits on free speech.
And by the way, when you're a criminal defendant out on bail, let's focus on that. He is now out on bail in three different jurisdictions -- New York, Florida, and Washington, DC. We have a frontrunner in this race who is out on bail in three jurisdictions.
COOPER: It's pretty incredible.
CHRISTIE: And what happens though, when you're let out, is that there are restrictions placed on you, for you to stay out, and one of the restrictions that was placed on him was no contact or intimidation of potential witnesses.
COOPER: He is saying if you go after me, I'm coming after you. His lawyers are now saying that post was not -- that was generalized political speech, not directed at anyone.
[20:05:10]
CHRISTIE: Well, of course, that's what they're going to say, because what they really feel like saying is, oh, my God, I can't believe he did that again. COOPER: You think that's what they said privately to each other.
CHRISTIE: Yes, privately. The lawyers like want to jump out the window having to defend some of this stuff.
And here's the bottom line on it is that, let's put aside if it's legal or illegal for a second. Is this the kind of conduct that the Republican Party or the American people want from someone who is going to be president? To send out tweets or posts, whatever they are that he sends on Truth Social, saying this kind of stuff, threatening people and trying to intimidate Mike Pence, trying to intimidate the judge.
You know, Mike Pence, as we know, he just falls in the line of Rex Tillerson and Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr, and all of these folks who were the best people ever when he hired them.
COOPER: Right.
CHRISTIE: And then as soon as they say something that destroys --
COOPER: And extraordinarily loyal also to him.
CHRISTIE: Yes, and as soon as they disagree with him, then they become the worst people on earth. There are things he wrote about Mike Pence, look, I'm running against Mike, I want to make sure I beat him and I become the Republican nominee, but he doesn't deserve that. He doesn't deserve those comments.
COOPER: The former president's lawyer, a new lawyer, John Lauro is defending the president's actions. Obviously, he says, a technical violation of the Constitution is not a violation of criminal law. Does that make sense to you?
CHRISTIE: You know, no, and he admits that the president violated his oath. Think about that? The president of the United States promises to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. His own lawyer has admitted he violated the Constitution.
COOPER: I want to play something he told you, Laura Ingraham on Fox last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN LAURO, DONALD TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: What President Trump said is, let's go with Option D. Let's just halt. Let's just pause the voting and allow the state legislatures to take one last look and make a determination as to the -- as to whether or not the elections were handled fairly. That's constitutional law. That's not an issue of criminal activity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Did he admit the person committed a crime? Because the president is charged with corrupt obstruction of an official proceeding? CHRISTIE: Right. He did. And let me say what else he did.
You know, he is opposite of what the evidence is. Mike Pence has been very clear about this. He said the president didn't ask him to halt or pause. He said that he was asked by the president to reverse it, to reverse the result. And that's what Mike Pence is going to testify to.
I suspect that's what he has already testified to in the grand jury. We don't know for sure because those matters are secret, but I suspect he didn't say anything different to the grand jury.
COOPER: Do you think Mark Meadows is going to testify?
CHRISTIE: Oh, I've said all -- I think Mark Meadows is already a cooperating witness. He has all the looks of a cooperating witness running into coffee shops away from the press.
COOPER: And he has disappeared in the indictment. I mean, he has been referenced once or twice.
CHRISTIE: Right. So when you didn't see Mark Meadows as an unindicted co-conspirator, and you see absolutely no mention of him at all --
COOPER: How devastating do you think his testimony could be?
CHRISTIE: It could be the worst testimony for him outside of the family members, because Mark Meadows was with him constantly, during that period of time.
COOPER: And involved in all of it. In Georgia, in the electors.
CHRISTIE: He was a very involved chief-of-staff in my experience. He made sure he was in every meeting and every conversation, and we remember, there are hundreds of text messages that he turned over to the special counsel that he kept.
COOPER: And many more that he kept.
The former president is saying he's going to ask the judge to be reassigned or recused as he can't get a fair trial in DC. Is any of that legitimate?
CHRISTIE: They're not going to move the trial. I mean, there's no -- there is nothing he has shown. He is saying because she was appointed by Obama and she has been tough on January 6th defendants that that makes her you know, biased.
He has got to show something better than that to get the judge disqualified and to get the venue moved. I don't know what the argument is. I don't like the jury pool, so I'm going to get the venue moved. That's not a basis for moving venue.
COOPER: Do you think the public has a right to see -- I mean, do you think there should be cameras in the court in this?
CHRISTIE: I've always thought there should be cameras in federal court. I thought that if we have them in state court, we should have them in a federal court. I understand that there are times when people are performing for the cameras, but I think for the American people to see, because I think, Anderson, the justice system works extraordinarily well in this country and the main.
And I think the more we take the veil away from it on the federal side, as well, and people get to see the rights of defendants being acquitted. Juries really considering all the evidence, deliberating and then ultimately, a verdict being rendered, I think that will give them more confidence in the system, not less.
COOPER: In terms of, you know, I don't know if you saw it, former attorney general, Bill Barr told Kaitlan Collins last week the DOJ case is legitimate, the former president "should not be anywhere near the Oval Office."
[20:10:04]
In the same interview, he didn't rule out voting for the former president in a one-on-one match up against Biden. Does that make sense to you?
CHRISTIE: Well, you know --
COOPER: I understand he is a loyal Republican.
CHRISTIE: You know, he is not entirely -- not entirely. And I think that this is something that people have been avoiding, as you know, a lot of people somewhere in the race, somewhere outside the race, they are talking about this.
So, I think part of it is because there's real serious discontent with President Biden, concerns about his age and his health and all the rest of that. So I think that's why some people do it that way.
But I do think that Bill Barr, to be fair to him has been as clear as any former member of his Cabinet on the things that he said about the president, how the president conducted himself and how he doesn't believe --
COOPER: His critique has been devastating.
CHRISTIE: Yes. And so I think -- I think, look, if Bill wants to take that position, I think we need to give him a pass on that one, because in the end, he has put forward substantive facts as to why Donald Trump shouldn't be president again.
COOPER: This new CBS News/YouGov poll, 91 percent of MAGA Republicans and 83 percent of non-MAGA Republicans think the indictments and investigation against Trump are trying to stop his campaign. The argument you've been making consistently, and especially now, I mean, are you worried that it's not -- I mean, how do you make traction with those voters?
CHRISTIE: Because the argument with those voters is these are two separate questions. People are discontent with what they've seen, Anderson out of DOJ, and I can't say I blame them in terms of what happened with Hillary Clinton, or rather, did not happen and what they see now with the Hunter Biden plea being rejected, seemingly because the judge thought it was an unfair plea deal that favored Hunter Biden.
If you're a Republican, you say to yourself, this looks fishy. So the I think that's where those numbers come from. The separate question is, regardless of that, regardless, if you think that his prosecutions are politically motivated or not, there's very little argument about the conduct, the underlying conduct that led to it.
Inviting people to Washington on January 6th, saying it is going to be wild, telling them the election is stolen, when it isn't; urging them to march up to Capitol Hill and saying, you know, I'll go up there with you. I knew listening to that he would never go.
If Donald Trump is worried about breaking a fingernail, he doesn't go; let alone be in danger when people were being violent. Then he goes back to the White House and watches people commit violent acts at the US Capitol and does nothing.
If you're not morally responsible then for what happened on January 6, having done that, forget legally, is that the kind of person you want behind the desk in the Oval Office? Whether you believe he should go to jail or not, whether he was criminal or not, is that the bar now for being president of the United States?
Well, not only -- he may have committed a crime, but we think it might be politically motivated. That's why I say put that stuff aside and look at the conduct. Look at the conduct in that case, look at the conduct in the documents case, where he was asked for 18 months quietly, privately to give him them back, he didn't.
And look at look at the conduct even in the Stormy Daniels case, which I believe is a ridiculous prosecution to have been brought, but do we really want a president who is paying off a porn star during an election to hide the fact that he had an affair with her while he was married? Like, that shouldn't probably be the standard for what we want the guy in the Oval Office. So that's my argument and that's why those numbers don't worry nearly as much as you suspect they might.
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break. More with Governor Christie. When we come back, we are going to get the governor's take on the alleged plot to assassinate Ukraine's president. The governor met with President Zelenskyy recently in Ukraine.
And later, the wave of theft and burglaries in one of California's biggest cities that its people there are pushing to recall the local district attorney and store owners just trying to hang on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:17]
COOPER: We learned early on in Russia's war in Ukraine that capturing or killing Ukraine's President Zelenskyy was one of the top objectives. Tonight, Ukrainian officials revealing what they say was a new plot to kill him and they've identified and arrested a suspect they say was the saboteur.
The latest now from CNN's Nick Paton Walsh in Ukraine for us tonight.
Nick, what more do we know about this alleged assassination plot?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not a vast amount, but it is important that Ukraine's security services felt they had to put this out in the public. We know that the informant is not clear what nationality she has., appears to have lived in Ochakiv, that's a peninsula down close to the water town of Mykolaiv, where she is said to have tried to have gathered information about a visit. It has already happened by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
She said to have worked in a military surplus store and some of the messages that she seems to have been passing back and forth, the Ukraine security services have put out their show that she is being asked to talk about the date, the place, maybe even take pictures of perhaps a hospital where Zelenskyy may have gone to.
It's clear, this failed. Obviously, it's all in the past tense. But also it's important to point out that Zelenskyy is someone Moscow, frankly, would have done anything to try and kill over the past year or so. And that informants like this are relatively common, 29 statements by Ukraine about intercepting informants like this, received over the past few months. But still an important enough moment they felt they had put this particular incident out in public.
COOPER: What's the latest on airstrikes and drone strikes?
WALSH: We've had a pretty awful last few hours or so specifically in Pokrovsk, a town where a residential building appears to have been hit by two missiles and the death toll is growing. It is fair to say and we're also seeing a large number of injured which in the dozens include a number of police officers. People combing through the rubble, perhaps as detonations continue there.
Look, it's important to point out while these numbers get awful, they are unlikely frankly. We're seeing them many towns across Ukraine and that is obviously deeply troubling for civilians here who live in the black of night, you can see behind me waiting for sirens, and often Russia's vengeful wrath against populated areas where often their missile strikes do appear to be indiscriminate and take many civilian lives -- Anderson.
COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.
Back now with Republican presidential candidate and former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie.
You just met with President Zelenskyy in Kyiv. What was your impression of him?
CHRISTIE: He is very bright, very committed, and very detailed about the things that he thinks have gone well, both in the war and in this relationship with the West.
COOPER: I assume this news of, you know, an assassination plot, I mean, it is nothing new. There have been plenty of it, but it probably doesn't surprise you.
[20:20:00]
CHRISTIE: It doesn't surprise me especially because, Anderson, you know, I did this work as a prosecutor for seven years. Your senses get much more sensitized to this kind of thing.
As I was walking through the presidential office building, all the lights were out in the place. There were big drapes over the windows, and sandbags everywhere. And it was clear that it was very hard even for me and people in my party who they were expecting. The security was extraordinary, more than I've ever seen at the White House, for instance. And so when I heard this now, today about the plot, I'm not surprised. I think they were aware of what was going on and on guard.
COOPER: You were also in Bucha. I know you met with families whose kids had been taken into Russia, we've done a lot with Karim Khan, the ICC prosecutor. Do you think anybody will be brought to justice on the Russian side for the kidnapping of Ukrainian children?
CHRISTIE: First, the Ukrainians have to win the war before I think there'll be any justice for this. But think about this, and I don't think a lot of people in our country have focused on it. Over 19,000 children verified, there's probably more, but over 19,000 Children verified, taken from their homes and their families.
Imagine for anybody out there who is a mother or father, and they've lost their child. Their child is taken away. They don't know if their child is dead or alive. They don't know if their child is being cared for or being abused. And they know they're being programmed to be told that Ukrainians are awful people, and that they're really Russians.
This is not a territorial dispute. In Bucha, they were talking of soldiers going on one particular street, and we're talking about this, going door-to-door taking people out of their homes, men, torturing them, first while alive, gouging out their eyes, cutting off their ears, then tying their hands behind their back and shooting them in the back of the head, and then going back into the homes and raping the women.
I mean, this is barbarism. And by the way, it's barbarism authorized and encouraged by the man that Donald Trump calls excellent, and a genius and brilliant in Vladimir Putin. Well, if that's brilliance, we don't need brilliance on the world stage.
COOPER: You know, we hear from a lot of the extreme House Republicans who don't believe the US should be involved, think there's too much money going to Ukraine, don't see this as anything more than a territorial dispute, that the US shouldn't be part of.
What do you say to -- I mean, do you hear that in New Hampshire voters? Do you hear that in Iowa voters? Is there -- is that the majority out there? Or is that an anomaly?
CHRISTIE: I don't believe it's the majority. I believe it's a significant minority, not a -- you know, so it's not a small amount either. But I think that it's because, quite frankly, President Biden has failed in articulating why it's so important.
He is doing things that are more than what President Trump was doing, but he's not articulating the argument. What I would say to the American people is, you could pay me now or pay me later.
If we are willing to supply the Ukrainians with the weaponry they need. Think about this, Anderson, I heard this this week, that per day, the Ukrainians are being outgunned in artillery, by the Russians, by a count of 11 to one.
If we give them the artillery they need, we give them the F-16 that they should have had quite some time ago, in my view, and let them win the war against Russia, we'll never have to have that fight. And China is watching, and if we cut and run, like some people on the stage that will be with me on August 23rd are going to advocate for, we cut and run, the Chinese are watching and the next step will be Taiwan.
Now, if you don't care about atrocity against Taiwan, I guess, I can understand that. But how about let's make it practical. Two-thirds of the world's semiconductors that run everything from the phones we have, computers, our cars are manufactured in Taiwan. Who do you want to control that? The United States of America and a free country of Taiwan or another, you know, group of folks who are controlled by the Communist Party of China?
These are the stakes that are up there right now, and I don't think Joe Biden has articulated that and I think it is his fault, in addition with some Republicans who are being negative about it. His fault that he hasn't made a better case to all of the American people. I went over there, because I wanted to see for myself. And now I've seen and I've seen a shallow grave with 160 people buried in it, civilians who were murdered outside the church in Bucha and then the church was ransacked by the Russians.
Vladimir Putin is doing this and America needs to stand up for this because if we don't, then we're going to be sending American men and women to fight and die someplace else in the world because we didn't arm the Ukrainians now,
COOPER: Governor Christie, I appreciate your time.
CHRISTIE: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Coming up more on the former president's online threat after his latest indictment and his attorney's new legal filings. Our legal team weighs in yet another indictment decision that could come any day now, the possible criminal prosecution in Georgia. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:28:28]
COOPER: Tonight, we've been talking with presidential candidate, Chris Christie, who said that the former president's apparent online threat after his latest federal indictment that "There are always limits on free speech." He also summed up what he gets the reaction to that social media post was from the former president's attorneys as "Oh my god, I can't believe he did that again."
I'm joined now by senior political commentator, Adam Kinzinger, former Republican congressman, and member of the January 6 committee; Tia Mitchell, Washington correspondent for "The Atlanta Journal Constitution;" and CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, former assistant US attorney and author of "Untouchable: How Powerful People Get Away With It."
I mean, it hasn't even been a week since the former president was indicted in the 2020 election case. You already see him lashing out at the prosecution and the judge. I mean, and now Mike Pence, where does this go?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is going to be a real challenge for prosecutors and the judge alike because as a defendant, Donald Trump does have some rights. You have the right to criticize and question your judge and your prosecutor. Not a great idea, but you have the right.
But Donald Trump has this way of taking his rights and maximizing them and going too far, and so the question is how far will be too far? At what point -- the only people who can stop this are the prosecutor and the judge. And at some point, I think the prosecutor is going to need to go to the judge and say, but right now they're negotiating over to what extent Donald Trump can talk about the discovery publicly, but it's going to have to go farther than that.
They're going to have to consider -- I know nobody wants a gag order, but if he continues to make statements that pose a threat to people by any reasonable construction, prosecutors are going to have to go to the judge, the judge is going to have to take action.
COOPER: Congressman Kinzinger, I mean, Trump's lawyers claim before president's post saying "If you go after me, I'm coming after you" is just political speech. It has nothing to do with the case. I mean, do you buy that?
[20:30:05]
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I mean, it's garbage, obviously. He is -- look, Donald Trump is really good, and he's practiced this over decades of saying something, but in a way that you could somehow conceivably, at least with a straight face, argue that you mean something else. You see that through his whole life, through his whole career.
Of course he was sitting around angry, tweeted that out. He's mad. He's done other things to know, boy, it's not me, but this could turn really violent if you do this, and this is going to destroy our country. And not to mention all the other fake tweets he's put out where he's talked about, like, America is going to hell. Nancy Pelosi is going to hell.
You see a man that is literally, I think, literally losing his mind. I don't even mean that metaphorically. I think he's actually going insane. And so, no, I don't think it's just protected political speech when you make a threat, because, look, there are people out there that are going to take that seriously and they can go to take action.
I had a number of them reaching out to me in my office saying that, you know, if Donald Trump said something bad at me, that they're taking that literally and they're going to come after me and my 18- month-old kid. So this is a serious issue, and I agree with Elie, somebody's going to have to take action, I think.
COOPER: And yet none of the other really, I mean, other than Governor Christie and, you know, Asa Hutchinson, Will Hurd, are speaking of those running against him, are really taking him to task for This.
KINZINGER: Nobody is. And that's -- and, you know, Chris Christie did a fantastic job. Again, Asa, Will Hurd. But everybody else is, like, in this magical land where somehow Donald Trump will just simply disappear from the political scene. Somebody in a white horse is going to come down and bestow upon them the presidency, and so they won't have made any of his followers mad.
You cannot run against the front -- I mean, being president is like, you have to be a very strong person to be president of the United States. None of these candidates, besides those three, have shown that they're willing to take on even one of the weaker men in existence, Donald Trump. How can they take on Russia and China?
To me, I scratch my head at this. I get how some of my former colleagues are that way now. But you're running for president. Why so quiet?
COOPER: Tia, the former president is obviously awaiting charging decisions in Georgia on whether he tried to legally overturn the election results in Fulton County. Have officials there indicated what they'll do if the former president is indicted and reacts the same way he's been reacting to the federal case, by going after the judge and the prosecution?
TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Well, I think, number one, what officials in Georgia are trying to do is as much as they can prepare, study the other cases, study how other law enforcement agencies are handling things. But I think, in general, what the Fulton County District Attorney and what the local judges have tried to kind of model ahead of whatever may happen in the coming weeks is that they're trying to follow the letter of the law.
They're trying to treat former President Trump and his allies, anyone else who would face charges, the same way they would any other defendant in the Fulton County Courthouse. So in that way, we expect no preferential treatment, but we expect that should they decide that if President Trump is indicted and if they believe he's trying to intimidate witnesses or in other ways tamper with the case as it moves forward, they probably will deal with him the way they've dealt with other defendants in the past.
We've got -- Fulton County is used to high profile trials. There's a high profile RICO case involving a rapper right now, and there's been lots of rebukes from the judge in that case on many different levels. And again, it's a very different type of case, but it's high profile. It involves a celebrity. It involves these racketeering charges.
COOPER: Yes.
MITCHELL: All things are kind of themes that could come up in this Trump-related case.
COOPER: Elie, in terms of the former president, can he -- I mean, does -- you know, obviously, he wants the judge to be recused. He wants, you know, a new venue. None of that's going to happen.
HONIG: Absolutely not. He's got no chance at succeeding. First of all, there is zero evidence that this judge is biased against him. All he can point to is the fact that she was nominated to the bench by Barack Obama. So what?
Judge Cannon, who he's in front of in this other case, was nominated by him, by Donald Trump. Neither of those things merits recusal. And she's been tough on January 6 rioters, appropriately so, and she's been upheld.
With regard to the venue, the fact that this case is charged in D.C., that's where the crime allegedly occurs. That's where you're supposed to charge this case. The only basis to move it would be if it's impossible to hold a fair trial there. I'd actually be surprised if he even makes those motions. They have zero merit.
COOPER: And, Congressman, I mean, the former president asked allies complain about what they say is this two-tiered system of justice. I mean, any other criminal defendant would not be able to get away with this kind of inflammatory rhetoric.
[20:35:05]
KINZINGER: Yes, I don't mean this negatively. It kind of is a two- tiered system, whereas, Donald Trump is getting away with a lot. And I get it. He was former president and there's, you know, certain leverage you have to give to him.
But, you know, he attempted to launch an insurrection, he attempted a coup. He has continually misled half of the country. He does things -- he has led people to commit crimes as well. This idea that somehow the DOJ just has it out for him, I mean, he should have been charged years ago for this. He should have been charged at least a year ago and hasn't been.
So I think if anything, the DOJ has been too slow because they're worried about going after a former president, I don't necessarily knock him on that concern, but my goodness, he's certainly not being treated worse than everybody else.
COOPER: Yes. Adam Kinzinger, Tia Mitchell, Elie Honig, thanks so much.
Coming up next, brazen store robberies, car jackings, home invasions, assaults on the rise in one city, some in broad daylight. Now the NAACP is calling for a state of emergency. We'll tell you where it's happening and what city leaders are saying about the rampant crime coming up.
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COOPER: Welcome back. In Oakland, California, robberies, burglaries assaults are surgery compared to last year. The California Highway Patrol is now being tapped to help fight crime and protect the city's 400,000 residents. The move comes after Oakland's branch of the NAACP and a local pastor called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to the crime.
With more of the situation, here's CNN's Kyung Lah.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:40:07]
KRISTIN COOK, MOVING OUT OF OAKLAND: I love Oakland. It's very hard for me and my son, especially my son.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): So Kristin Cook is leaving Oakland, California --
COOK: Be careful.
LAH (voice-over): -- after living here her entire life.
COOK: I can't take it anymore. I got to the point I was too scared to leave my house.
LAH (voice-over): Cook blames brazen assaults and robberies in broad daylight, break-ins and home invasions across the city. As Oakland sees a surge in reported violent crimes this year compared to last. While homicides are down, robberies, burglaries, and rape are all up by double digit percentages.
Everyone we talk to says it doesn't matter your race, your income, everyone seems to be a target, including carjackers like this one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
COOK: Now, they're carjacking people at stop sign. And my son is about to start driving. The fact that I am being pushed out because I emotionally can't take it anymore. It's horrible.
LAH (voice-over): But Toni Bird is staying. She lives with a locked front gate and five security cameras. Bird says Oakland police recommended steel braces for residential doors and air horns. TONI BIRD, OAKLAND RESIDENT: The idea is if you set it off, your neighbor would hear it. Set theirs off. And more people are alert that there's danger.
LAH (voice-over): her neighbor across the street, 60-year-old retiree Dave Schneider, was shot to death in June, trimming his front tree during the day. He died as Bird and other neighbors tried to save him.
BIRD: I'm not looking for the perfect safe place. I'm looking for a place where the elderly, women, with children aren't targeted. I think we can all agree that that needs to change. And so I feel like it will change, and that's why I'm staying.
TROY WELCH, OWNER, ACE HARDWARE: Found everything you're looking for, OK?
LAH (voice-over): But staying open gets tougher every day for Troy Welch, owner of Laurel Ace Hardware.
WELCH: There's about six of them that comes in.
LAH (voice-over): Welch's store was robbed just hours before we met him.
WELCH: They went to our cash registers and this is my office. But you'll see they went in, they to take a sledge hammer to it, tried to lift it and he's going to figure out. They aren't getting into that safe.
LAH (voice-over): Welch says he loses 10 percent of his merchandize to theft. So coming this year, he leave his registers empty and open, tired of replacing them.
WELCH: It's more brazing. Sometimes more violent I think than what it used to be.
LAH (voice-over): How long does it take for police to arrive?
WELCH: Forty-five minutes.
LAH (voice-over): Forty-five minutes. Is that typical?
WELCH: That's probably fast.
LAH (voice-over): Frustration has spilled over in community meetings. Anger often directed at leadership, like the newly elected district attorney, who has been on the job just seven months.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's unreal.
DARREN WHITE, OAKLAND NAACP: I'm a black man, born and raised in Oakland. When I walk out the house every day, I want to be safe. So if that calls for some, whoever commits the crime to be prosecuted, so be it. But we wanted to be fair and just.
LAH (voice-over): Darren White is with the NAACP Oakland branch, which penned an open letter to their city, blaming failed leadership, the defund the police movement, and anti-police rhetoric for creating a heyday for Oakland criminals.
WHITE: We're not trying to say, you know, mass incarceration and arrest everyone. We want the people that are out here committing these violent crimes arrested and charged.
LAH (on-camera): Do we need more cops on the street?
WHITE: Yes, we do need more. Every community needs police.
LAH (voice-over): Flanked by partners in the city, Oakland's Interim Police Chief Darren Allison says Oakland is taking a comprehensive approach to fighting crime.
(on-camera): They all say that the crime feels different now. Why is that?
INTERIM CHIEF DARREN ALLISON, OAKLAND POLICE: So I think because it is pervasive, not just localized or even may have historically seen maybe gang group violence. I think that feeling has become that it's everywhere.
LAH (voice-over): From cops to crime prevention funded for 712 officers, Allison says he has 715 on staff.
ALLISON: So what you're seeing is changes in bail, changes in sentencing.
LAH (on-camera): Are you saying you need tougher punishment on the back end?
ALLISON: It's everything. It's not just enforcement and punishment. I think accountability comes in many forms.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH: And we did hear from Oakland's mayor who was not available to speak with us on camera, she said, similar to what you heard from the police chief there that the focus is not completely on enforcement but on prevention and looking at the root causes of crime, looking at housing, education, and employment.
We also did reach out to the Alameda County District Attorney's Office, who declined to speak with us on camera, and took on the NAACP. The district attorney saying that she was, quote, disappointed in the NAACP's statement, that it was, quote, a false narrative, and that she would expect more from such a storied institution. Anderson?
[20:45:02]
COOPER: Kyung Lah, thanks very much.
Just ahead, abortion laws in the wake of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade. Why did Idaho become the only state in the country to disband its Maternal Mortality Review Committee, which tracks maternal deaths in the state?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tomorrow, Ohio voters will consider a Republican led measure that, if it passes, could make it much more difficult to pass a constitutional amendment supporting abortion rights in the state come November. Republican controlled states have passed or attempted to pass more restrictive regulations and laws in the U.S. since Roe v. Wade was overturned.
That includes Idaho, where a separate decision to disband its Maternal Mortality Review Committee makes it the only state in the country without such a committee to track maternal deaths. 360's Randi Kaye reports tonight from Boise.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. STACY SEYB, MATERNAL FETAL MEDICINE: Ultimately, I think all of this comes back down to what women and children are going to lose in the state.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dr. Stacy Seyb is a maternal fetal medicine doctor in Boise, Idaho. He was also the chairman of the Maternal Mortality Review Committee, or MMRC, that tracked maternal mortalities in the state of Idaho.
SEYB: The mission of the MMRC is to review and look at, you know, mortalities and understand why they might have happened. At that point, point, then make some recommendations where we see those gaps occurred.
[20:50:14]
KAYE (voice-over): But that committee is now gone. The state legislature let it expire.
DR. CAITLIN GUSTAFSON, FAMILY MEDICINE: Our MMRC was not an experiment.
KAYE (voice-over): Dr. Caitlin Gustafson practices family medicine in Idaho. She was also a member of the Maternal Mortality Review Committee.
GUSTAFSON: I think that Idahoans should be alarmed that legislators have taken it upon themselves to decide what's better for -- what's best for Idahoans health care and how we best prevent the worst outcomes in medicine rather than the doctors and their teams that are at the bedside.
KAYE (voice-over): The dissolvement of this committee comes on the heels of Idaho passing some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country. Last summer, Idaho made abortion illegal with two exceptions. If the mother's life is in danger and in the cases of rape or incest that have been reported to a law enforcement agency. As a result, five of the nine maternal fetal medicine doctors who dealt with high risk pregnancies have decided to practice in another state rather than risk going to jail if they perform an abortion here. That's exactly why Idaho doctors we spoke with argue the Maternal Mortality Review Committee is more vital than ever.
SEYB: If we're not looking at where our problems are and how they arise, how do we make them better? How do we fix them?
MEGAN BLANKSMA (R), MAJORITY CAUCUS CHAIR, IDAHO STATE HOUSE: What we're trying to do is prevent deaths, OK? We all have the same end goal. It's just how we get there.
KAYE (voice-over): Idaho Representative Megan Blanksma, who is the Republican Majority Leader in the state House, says the MMRC was ineffective.
(on-camera): What was your biggest problem with the Maternal Mortality Review Committee?
BLANKSMA: I want action, right? If there are deaths that we can prevent, I want to be able to go forward and take action on that. And I never felt comfortable that this committee was providing action items.
KAYE (on-camera): Members of the committee, though, would say that's not how it was designed. They weren't supposed to take the action. You were supposed to come up with what's actionable, the legislature, I mean.
BLANKSMA: Right. Well, it's difficult if you don't give me suggestions. If you're such an authority that you know so much more about this situation than I do, then you should have some suggestions for me.
SEYB: I wholeheartedly disagree. I think it was very productive.
KAYE (voice-over): Dr. Seyb says the Maternal Mortality Review Committee recommended, among other things, expanding Medicaid for expectant mothers and increasing coverage for postpartum moms since many of the deaths took place after women had given birth.
(on-camera): Were any of those recommendations adopted by the legislature?
SEYB: Not that I'm aware of.
KAYE (on-camera): And how frustrating is that?
SEYB: Oh, it's very frustrating.
KAYE (voice-over): We checked and Dr. Seyb is right. The two key changes the MMRC recommended to the legislature were never implemented. Representative Blanksma says the legislature is working with the Department Of Health and Welfare to figure out how the department can access health data similar to how the Maternal Mortality Review Committee did.
GUSTAFSON: This committee is a dedicated review to each and every death. What she is bringing forth is not equivalent in any way.
(on-camera): What do you say to critics who say that getting rid of the Maternal Mortality Review Committee in the wake of some of the most restrictive abortion laws here in the state of Idaho is just a deliberate effort to hide really what will inevitably be a rise in maternal mortality in this state?
BLANKSMA: Absolutely not true. There has been no concerted effort to do something like that. What there is a concerted effort to do is to prevent death.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Randi, is there any chance the Maternal Mortality Review Committee will be reinstated in Idaho?
KAYE: Well, Anderson, it depends on a couple of things. Representative Blanksma says that she hopes to have the new procedure in place for how the Department of Health and Welfare will gather data by January, and then the legislature will monitor that. They'll look at what data they're collecting. Are they tracking trends? Are they making smart recommendations?
If the legislature isn't satisfied, there is a chance that the MMRC could come back into play, the Maternal Mortality Review Committee. But that would require new legislation that would have to pass and the governor would have to sign it.
We did get a statement from the Idaho governor's press secretary, and she said that Governor Brad Little supports the MMRC, that he actually signed the original legislation back in 2019. And he does, Anderson, plan to bring a similar proposal next year.
COOPER: All right. Randi Kaye, thank you.
We'll be right back.
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[20:58:30]
COOPER: So with record heat this summer, some people are showing up in offices in shorts, apparently, and we wondered if that's OK. I find it hard to believe there's actual polling about this, but CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten is sitting here in shorts. So I guess there is. What does the data show?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, I am wearing shorts. I want to make television history here on the Anderson Cooper's 360 Show.
Look, the polling shows that a majority of Americans actually believe it is at least sometimes OK to wear shorts in the office for men. COOPER: Really?
ENTEN: Look at this. What we have is --
COOPER: How can there'd be polling on this? Who polls this?
ENTEN: This was a Wall Street Journal poll.
COOPER: OK.
ENTEN: It's a legitimate Ipsos/Wall Street Journal.
COOPER: OK.
ENTEN: We actually have polling on it. And I was surprised by this, and I feel great about it because I was able to wear shorts with you.
COOPER: Have people's opinions on wearing shorts at work changed over the years?
ENTEN: We become so much more progressive, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, you know what? People wear flip flops on planes and take their socks off. So of course, people will wear shorts in the office.
ENTEN: Of course, why not? This is just the next step in the genesis, right?
COOPER: Yes.
ENTEN: You know, back in the 50s, Gallup pulled it and --
COOPER: Is there pulling on that flip flops on planes or just naked feet on planes?
ENTEN: I look --
COOPER: I would like you to find a poll of that.
ENTEN: I will look into it for you.
COOPER: That is my --
ENTEN: It's a little too much for me, right? But I will note, you know, the other thing I want to point out is --
COOPER: I was on a plane when someone's clipping their toenails.
ENTEN: Oh, that's disgusting.
COOPER: Yes, disgusting.
ENTEN: We did poll your office staff on this.
COOPER: Oh, really? ENTEN: On whether we're allowed to wear shorts in the office. Interestingly, there's a split. They say it is OK for women to wear shorts.
COOPER: OK.
ENTEN: But it is not OK for men to wear shorts. That feels a little sexist to me --
COOPER: Wow.
ENTEN: -- but I don't know what's going on.
COOPER: I don't think such a rule would be allowed if it wasn't across the board.
ENTEN: I believe in equality for the gender.
COOPER: Sure. Harry, thanks very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: I don't know what that was about.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
