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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Carl Bernstein: Say Biden Angry At Those He Believes Are Behind Push To Force Him To Withdraw, As More Dems Demand He End Campaign; Carl Bernstein: Biden Realizes Current State Of Candidacy Is Likely Unsustainable; Sources: Investigators Believe Shooter May Have Used Drone In Recon Trip To Rally Site On Day Of Shooting; Global Tech Outage Hits Airlines, Hospitals, Banks, Other Businesses; Airlines And Businesses Struggle To Recover From Global Tech Outage. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 19, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ...is a ballerina from LA, and journalist Alsu Kurmasheva are also in custody.

As well as Gordon Black, a staff sergeant in the US Army, and US school teacher, Marc Fogel.

Critics suspect the Kremlin has been collecting US citizens as bargaining chips for a future deal.

But even now, that deal could still be months or perhaps years away.

Matthew Chance, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to Matthew and thanks to you. Anderson starts now.

[20:00:35]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, new reporting from legendary journalist Carl Bernstein on President Biden's anger at those trying to force him to withdraw.

Also, new details on the mindset of the gunman and lapses in security after the attempted assassination of the former president last weekend.

And later, how a simple software update turned into one of the biggest global tech meltdowns in history.

Good evening. We start with breaking news. That new reporting from veteran journalist, Carl Bernstein on the immediate future of President Biden's campaign and the powerbrokers and major donors inside his own party trying to get the president to stop.

It comes as a source tells CNN that President Biden, at home in Delaware and recovering from COVID is, "seething at the pressure campaign and those behind it." Today, nearly a dozen Democratic lawmakers came out in a steady

progression calling on the former president to withdraw, 34 congressional Democrats now want him to give up his campaign.

A Democratic lawmaker tells CNN that House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries is not discouraging more members from doing so.

Today's defections include senior and younger members of the Democratic Caucus, progressive member -- progressives, also members of the Hispanic and Black Caucuses, as well as a third and fourth senator.

Also today, Congressman Seth Moulton, who called on President Biden to exit about two weeks ago expanded on his reasons in an opinion piece in "The Boston Globe," writing, "More recently, I saw him in a small group at Normandy for the 80th anniversary of D-Day. For the first time, he didn't seem to recognize me. Of course, that can happen as anyone ages, but as I watched the disastrous debate a few weeks ago, I have to admit that what I saw in Normandy was part of a deeper problem."

Thats a comment that could renew concerns about Biden's ability to serve another four years. But also, unlike most other pleas to withdraw concerns about his ability to serve now.

Today's rounded defections follow more uncomfortable moments for the Biden campaign this week including an interview with the BET Network that was taped Tuesday, in which he appeared to stumble over the name of his Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Because he didn't get it, because I named the Secretary of Defense, a Black man, I named Ketanji Brown because of the people I've named.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: No indication that pressure tactics are working. Biden's campaign today said there is, "No plan for an alternative nominee." And the president himself issued a statement saying, "I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week."

Meanwhile, Vice President Harris tried to reassure donors on a phone call that, "We are going to win this election."

Biden's campaign chair also made a rare TV appearance today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN O'MALLEY DILLON, BIDEN CAMPAIGN CHAIR: Absolutely, the president is in this race, you've heard him say that time and time again.

He's also hearing from voters and what they're saying is, we've got you Joe. We are in this, stay with us. For every person that said that they are concerned we've had another person that's seen him and have said, you are our guy and we want to be with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: While the campaign chair suggests voters on the ground still back the president, a poll by the Associated Press and National Opinion Research Center conducted last week shows that about 65 percent of Democrats believe the president should withdraw.

We should note, the Democratic National Convention begins August 19th, exactly one month from today.

Carl Bernstein joins us now with his new reporting.

So, talk about what you have learned about President Biden's candidacy?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the president himself, who has now moved from being what was called contemplative about his situation to recognition that it is very unlikely that his candidacy can be sustained, and it is true of his family as well.

The president is angry, he feels abandoned. The word abandoned was used several times in discussions that I've had with people in the White House, the people that he is supported through his political career and helped advance through the ladder of leadership in Washington have now turned their back on him, in his view, and in a really ugly way.

And his wife, his son, Hunter, are saying, what is the matter with these people who you've brought through this process? Where is their loyalty, where is their appreciation for what you've done?

But meanwhile, you have a hell of a mess, as somebody put it, in that Biden has to leave his campaign, assuming he's going to, in an orderly way in which he's recognized for his achievements on behalf of the party that will continue and hopefully will put forth a nominee who is a successful candidate to succeed him in the presidency.

[20:05:12]

But right now, you have a really ugly scene around the president, around leadership of the House, and the Senate at whom he is angry. We've never been in a place quite like this before.

COOPER: So, I mean, you're talking about leadership of the House and Senate, is there anyone in particular he is disappointed in. I mean, have you been given names?

BERNSTEIN: Yes, he is particularly angry and disappointed at Chuck Schumer, the Senate Majority Leader. He's angry and disappointed and feels abandoned by his old friend, Nancy Pelosi. He has trouble recognizing why these folks would turn their backs on him given what he sees as his accomplishments.

But now, there's also the question of donors and fundraising because the money has dried up and there was -- I was told about an extraordinary meeting, Zoom meeting last Wednesday, involving the top donors and fundraisers for Biden, who said, "Not another penny," was the phrase that was used several times, "Not a another penny," not only to the Biden campaign, but to the House and Senate Democrats.

Because the message that these donors and bundlers wanted to convey to Chuck Schumer, especially to Hakeem Jeffries, was, we must have this election go forth without Joe Biden being our candidate and you need to do more Mr. Leader. Mr. Leaders, plural, to ensure that he is not going to be the candidate.

So, we have kind of a retribution almost felt in the air and it's not a very pretty scene.

COOPER: And on that call, did these donors talk about who their preferred candidate would be if the president leaves?

BERNSTEIN: Interestingly enough, they said they wanted an open process in which Kamala Harris would not be, "anointed," that she would have to compete to be the presidential nominee along with everybody else.

Somewhere along that, the proposal put forth by James Carville, in which there would be a kind of open primary, preparatory to the convention in which the presidential nominee would be chosen.

But there also is a movement among Biden's aides and those who have served him for so long, they want to see this end with a pretty picture. They want to see this end with Joe Biden and the Democratic Party looking like winners, not like losers.

And right now, there is a kind of chaos that is prevailing and people are looking for a way out. They are talking about Monday as a possible time for the president to, in some way, make an announcement or have an announcement be made, that he will no longer be the candidate for president of the United States of his party, not a definite Monday pick, but it's looking that way. But there's an awful lot of work to smooth these rough edges its out.

COOPER: Carl Bernstein, fascinating.

I'm joined now -- thank you -- I'm joined now by Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona; former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod; Ashley Allison, former National Coalitions Campaign for the 2020 Biden-Harris campaign, and Democratic strategist, Paul Begala.

David, I mean, 24 hours ago felt like the president's campaign could be nearing an end sooner rather than later. Tonight, he and his team -- they're making public statements that he is continuing. What do you expect to see in the next day or two? What do you make of this reporting by Carl?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I expect that they would continue to say such things until such time that they've changed -- that he's changed his mind because you want to keep your options open. I would hope and I expect that while he's up in Rehoboth recovering

from COVID, that he'll take the time to meet with his family and meet with his aides and really evaluate where he is in this race.

You know, he keeps confusing if the reporting is correct, disrespect for his record with concern about what happens moving forward and what happens in this election.

Two things can be true at once. People can have deep affection and respect for him and the things that he's accomplished, not just as president, but over 50 years and still recognize that he is not in a position to win this race and that as he has said, this is a race of its existential importance, not just to the Democratic Party, but to the country.

[20:10:06]

I think that's what's going on here and I hope that people will say to him, don't personalize this as an attack on you. Understand that people want to win this election because the election is of extraordinary consequence and to the extent that you step aside to allow that to happen, that only enlarges you, that doesn't diminish you.

COOPER: Yes, Paul, I mean, in many regards, wouldn't this be a way to, I mean, he says he's not running for his legacy. But wouldn't this be a way for him to be seen as doing something for the country, for those Democrats who believe that that would be something positive for the country if he stepped aside?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, right. Part of legacy is building a bench and I think Biden was right in 2020 when he decided he was the only one -- they had a large field running -- he was the only one who could beat Trump. It's the only issue Democrats have then and now -- who can beat Trump?

Biden won 44 primaries and caucuses 44. He had never won one before in two campaigns for the presidency. He won all of them because Democrats decided he was the best one to beat Trump.

Now, Democrats are reminding that he can't beat Trump. The difference is not because he's had a better -- but terrific president. It's because they think he's too old and the vast overwhelming majority of Americans think he is too old.

There's not a strategy to get around that. And so yes, the legacy -- look at Nancy Pelosi, she's even a year or two older than the president. She handed off the gavel. She built a very strong bench, handed off power to Hakeem Jeffries and others.

The Earth turned on its axis. The party succeeded. Everything was great and President Biden has built a terrific bench. It starts with the vice president but I can name you half-a-dozen governors, who also would beat Trump.

I think Kamala Harris beats Trump, and I think a lot -- Whitmer, Cooper, Beshear, Wes Moore in Maryland, Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania. I could go on.

So, I would say Mr. President, you would leave this party in very good hands and then in turn that will leave the country in very good hands.

COOPER: Ashley, I mean -- what do you -- this is so -- this is -- I mean, we've been talking about this for weeks now, but it seems like it is, I mean, this obviously has to come to a head. What do you make of where we are at right now?

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Folks need to make a decision and it seems like the president has made his and that is that he is not dropping out of the race.

We are a month out from the convention and if we go into Chicago and Joe Biden is still the nominee, people need to rally behind him. And the only way I see him not being the nominee is that one day he wakes up and says I'm going to step down.

COOPER: But I mean to David Axelrod's point, which is, they're going to say he's the nominee. He's going to say he's the nominee until he makes that decision and figures out a way to make the transition, then obviously they'll announce it because they're not going to leak it out over days and days and days, right?

ALLISON: The problem is each day something else happens. It's Friday, almost a week ago, we had an assassination attempt on a president that none of us could have fathomed.

Last night, we saw the former president get up on the stage and give a terrible convention speech, which the night before, people were thinking Donald Trump is going to come and knock it out of the park.

So, when you have a night like last night with a bad convention speech by Donald Trump, it gives the campaign a space to do, rethinking, re- evaluating. and so, the hard part is that each day it seems like something else happens that moves the ball forward with him, maybe stepping down and then moves the ball back a little bit, which is why a decision just has to we have to call it and then move forward with the campaign.

COOPER: Maria is your -- in Carl's report, you know, these major donors don't want Vice President Harris just anointed. They want an open process. Is it clear to you how that would even work?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there are certainly rules for that, and I think that this has been mentioned, but obviously it warrants mentioning again, and I'm on the Rules and By- Laws Committee, Anderson, as you know, the delegates are promised to pledge to President Biden. If he steps down then he could endorse Kamala Harris, I suspect if he decides to do that, that is exactly what he would do.

The delegates, I suspect most of them because they were pledged to President Biden and they support him. They will take very seriously that endorsement and would most likely the majority of them will go to her, but they don't have to. Right? It's not something that is set in stone that that's what they have to

do. So, I think that this goes to whatever the open convention people are talking about. It also puts us onto a path of the unknown. And this, I think is what a lot of people who are saying -- for all of those who are saying that Joe Biden needs to step aside, what's plan B? We don't know what plan B is and it could very well be that plan B is a lot worse than what we have today.

And another thing, Anderson, that I thank is not getting talked about and, you know, Carl Bernstein is a magnificent reporter and I'm sure that everything that he says is true.

[20:15:09]

But what's missing from that and what the White House is hearing from, are the grassroots voters. There are millions of grassroots voters who are pissed off at the National Democratic Party and all of these lawmakers, because they believe they are trying to silence their votes, silence their voices, 14 million people voted for President Biden, many of them in Black and Brown communities who will have the most to lose if somebody like Donald Trump gets into office and they are saying we still stand with Joe Biden and that's what the White House is hearing.

COOPER: Right.

CARDONA: They know that the polls have been wrong in the past, and so, they're listening to the voters.

COOPER: And, Ashley, to that point, those same voters, then if they saw Kamala Harris suddenly being tossed aside, that would certainly add to that anger.

ALLISON: Yes, that would put it some real salt in folks' wounds. I mean, there was just a letter that came out with several thousand Black women saying, it feels disrespectful for you to ignore our voices in this moment.

Look, I'll just talk about lived experience at this point because that's who I am as an organizer and many Black people know what it feels like to achieve something great and then have the goalposts moved and what is happening to Kamala Harris, whether she was your choice in the primary in 2019 to 2020, whether you really have liked her as a vice president. We know what it feels like to be overlooked and to be disrespected professionally, personally, and it's not a great feeling.

And so, if that happens to Kamala Harris in this point, you have a whole -- we always hear Black folks are the base of the party. You have a lot of work to do in a hundred days to not just get your double-haters and your Nikki Haley voters to vote for Joe Biden.

But also, to get Black voters to show up and to get their neighbors to show up and I just don't know if that's possible if that happens to Kamala Harris.

COOPER: A lot more -- everybody, stay with us. We're going to have another round of talks.

More on the future of President Biden's candidacy and why Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says that, were he to leave, it would not, be an "easy transition" to Vice President Harris.

Also tonight, breaking news on what the gunman who tried to assassinate the former president was doing leading up to the event and what investigators have uncovered that could offer more clues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:17]

COOPER: Moments ago, Carl Bernstein reported the Democratic donors don't have a preferred candidate should President Biden withdraw. They want an open process.

It's similar to what President Biden's campaign said today. There is, "no plan for an alternative nominee," and a sentiment echoed in a new video by one of Biden's chief progressive supporters, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Because if you think that's going to be an easy transition, I'm here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class, and a huge amount of these elites, and a huge amount of these folks in these rooms that I see that are pushing for President Biden to not be the nominee, also are not interested in seeing the vice president being the nominee.

Will they win out on that? I don't know, but I am here to tell you, do not take that for granted. Do not take that outcome for granted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Back with our team of political analysts.

So, Paul, you hear Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, warning of a chaotic open convention or all sorts of legal problems. I mean, what does this -- what does it look like to you?

I am -- I just don't understand what --

BEGALA: Yes.

COOPER: --assuming if the president were to say he's not campaigning in the time left before the convention. What do you have -- Zoom calls with all the delegates from people who want to be president of United States, and then they go to the convention and then have a public hearing?

BEGALA: Probably a lot of that, but you know, Jim Clyburn, who is the man who made Joe Biden president, let's be honest, and who has said in the alternative, he would support Vice President Harris. You have the wisest people in Democratic Party. He called for a mini

primary. I'm not sure what that means. Maybe it means though, what I want is public contest. I want to come on your show. I want to come into -- go to Penn State, go to Michigan State, go have rallies, have townhall meetings, have debates so that people can see.

Vice President Harris should be the overwhelming favorite, okay. But my own hope is, even if you're for her, this legitimizes her if and when she were to step into that role and there's a lot of other people who, you know, still sharpen steel. So, I actually think it'd be great.

COOPER: So, you would foresee like --

BEGALA: Yes, but you know --

COOPER: -- several weeks before the convention of townhalls on cable networks, possible debates between various people who want to be president, public events, where people can kind of see and try out these candidates.

BEGALA: I would love that. I would -- is it risky? Yes. President Kennedy said there are risks and costs of a plan of bold action, but they are nothing compared to the risks and costs of inaction. And I think that's what Democrats have to waive. I think it would be great.

It would be riveting television and meanwhile, the former president is not performing very well. And this would dominate the voters' attention with a new generation of really talented Democrats.

COOPER: Ashley, what do you make that argument? I mean, it does sound you'd have a lot of interesting voices with energy trying to make a case and would get a lot of attention.

ALLISON: That sounds like a great idea for 2023.

COOPER: 2023.

ALLISON: Right, when we could do a time machine back.

I get it. I understand why people will want an open primary. That is what democracy is about, but when we go into the convention, again, we'll have about less than a hundred days for an election.

Here's what I will say, if we do this open primary process and it is the delegates that get to decide the nominee, Democrats are going to have to explain who these delegates are as well. And are they -- do they actually represent the diversity of this country? Do they -- how many are people who are lobbyists and how many -- and I know the how delegates are selected, but most people in America and most Democratic voters don't.

[20:25:07]

So, in addition to introducing your candidate, you're going to have this whole story about like, well, who are these folks who are getting to decide? And again, just another obstacle to clear, is it worth it?

COOPER: David Axelrod, "The New York Times" is reporting that President Biden is irritated at former President Obama, seeing him as a puppet master behind the scenes to push him out. How much do you think President Biden's history of being passed over for -- to run or being pressured by, I guess by, or suggested by President Obama not to run against Hillary Clinton. How much of it is -- and sort of being passed over by party elites is wrapped up and how he views this moment?

AXELROD: Well, it may be, I don't know. I know that he's talked about that and he felt like he could beat Donald Trump in that election but the reality was in 2015, many people told him his son had just died. He was deeply distraught. Hillary Clinton had a huge head start and Bernie Sanders had a huge head start.

And the question was never whether Joe Biden could be a strong general election candidate. The question was, could he win the nomination? And by most estimates, the answer was, no.

So, just because you give people advice that they don't want to hear, it doesn't mean that you don't care about them or that you don't honor them, or anything like that. And that's sort of what's going on right now.

Nobody is doing Joe Biden a favor right now by telling him that he can win this race, that Maria talks about the grassroots, you showed the -- I think this reflects what's going on out there, 65 percent of Democrats think he should step out of the race.

These elected officials who are being lightly dismissed here; they have to win among that very grassroot population that we're talking about. And they're hearing from their constituents because at the end of the day, the thing that's important is, do we defeat Donald Trump?

That is what is important and what gives you the best chance to defeat Donald Trump. That's what Democrats are asking themselves, and they've -- they are despairing about what they've seen in the last few weeks with the president and they think that we need a change to do that.

There are 12 other new members of Congress who came out today and asked him to step down because they're worried that hell not only lose, but also that there'll be losses up and down the line.

Some of them are people who served with him for many, many years, like Sherrod Brown of Ohio. You can't be mad at all these people. They are not all people who are hostile to you.

Certainly, Barack Obama has love and affection for Joe Biden and deep appreciation for what he did over eight years as vice president. But love and affection may lead you to give advice that he doesn't want to hear. And I hope that he gets past if he is angry as Carl suggests, that he gets past this anger and recognizes that this isn't all about -- it's not about, all about him, and it's certainly not a condemnation of him. It's about what he has told us that this election is an existential

election and Democrats need to win this election for the country and he might not give them the best chance.

COOPER: Maria, I mean, David mentioned that new polling indicates 65 percent Democrats want President Biden to drop out, 77 percent of Independents also, think he should. How do you square Biden's decision to stay in the race with those numbers?

CARDONA: Yes. Sure, I mean those numbers are terrible, but I think they are thinking of it in different ways. The first one is, those numbers, we have been seeing them, kind of from the beginning with both President Biden and Donald Trump. The majority of the country did not want this matchup, yet, this is what we have.

And so, I think in their minds they're saying, well, people don't want Donald Trump either, but he's there. I'm the only one who has beat him before, especially after last night's horrendous speech by Donald Trump, I think they feel that even more, that they can absolutely beat Donald Trump.

But here's another part of it as well, Anderson. This is somebody, Joe Biden is somebody who has beat the odds so many times in his life. When people have said he is down and out and he has risen from the ashes. I think this is one of those times when he believes he can do that as well.

And then the other thing I would say just very quickly, everyone is talking about the scenario of when Joe Biden decides to step aside and I agree with David Axelrod. I don't think anyone's doing this out of malice. On the contrary, I think everyone, everyone in the Democratic Party wants to beat Donald Trump. So, I think that people need to also think about another alternative, which is what if he stays? What if he is not going to step aside?

[20:30:03]

So these lawmakers and these donors are going to have to make a decision. Are they going to sit it out? Are they going to continue to criticize him? Or are they going to come together and support him? Because that's the only way that we're going to win.

If they're not going to do that, Anderson, then we might as well inaugurate Donald Trump tonight.

COOPER: Thanks, everyone. We will see.

Coming up, I'll talk with a Democratic congressman who is on the growing list of members calling for President Biden to drop out of the race.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Recapping what legendary journalist Carl Bernstein reported at the top of the hour, President Biden, who's recovering from COVID-19 at his Delaware beach house, feels he's being disrespected by senior Democratic leaders, including longtime ally Nancy Pelosi, who are trying to get him to drop his reelection campaign.

Now that tracks with earlier CNN reporting that described the President as seething over Pelosi's involvement in attempts to push him out of the race. Democratic Congressman Adam Smith is the ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee. He called for President Biden to step aside more than a week ago and was also on a phone call with the former president and a group of moderate Democrats last weekend.

I spoke with him just before air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Congressman, thanks for joining us. Do you think more of your Democratic colleagues are going to come forward and publicly call for the President to step aside in the coming days?

[20:35:08]

REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Yes, I do. And look, what we are witnessing here is the second greatest act of political malpractice from the Biden campaign team that I think this country has ever witnessed. Admittedly, the greatest act was the Republican Party rallying around Donald Trump after January 6th.

Look, leading up to the debate, there were concerns about the President. The debate was catastrophic and it hasn't got better sense. Look, we've got a great message. Joe Biden's done a great job as president. What's clear now, he is not the person who can deliver that message and he will be dogged by questions about his health.

Look, you saw the speech that Donald Trump gave last night. Let's go after that. And Joe Biden was not capable of doing that debate. We've got better nominees. We've got a better option. Continuing to prop him up at this point, it's just really irresponsible. And we see the impact it's having on democratic campaigns, Senate campaigns across the country, the pressure it's putting on Democrats.

So, I think it's time for the President to step aside.

COOPER: It's interesting. You call it malpractice. Is the malpractice in your mind the fact that ahead of the debate, I mean, talking months ahead of the debate if there was a decline in the President, that the people around him did not make that known and that this wasn't an issue that was resolved long ago, or is the malpractice what's happened since the debate?

SMITH: I don't know that for sure. I don't know that for sure. I wasn't around him, they were around him. What I do know for sure is the second Joe Biden walked off that debate stage. It was obvious to everybody that at that point, he was no longer the capable candidate that we needed to run the state.

And since then, rather than having an honest conversation within the Democratic family about the best step forward, campaign dug in. And they said, there's no problem. You know, they ignored it. They didn't deal with it. And they continue to press forward even as so much pressure is building to choose a different nominee.

Look, polls show somewhere between 55 percent and 70 percent of Democrats think that the President should step aside at this point. At this point in the campaign, you just can't survive that. And we have other better options. The idea that Joe Biden is the only person? Come on.

COOPER: Well, let me ask you about that. Your Democratic colleague, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, who's supporting President Biden still, said on social media that some of the people who are pushing for Biden to not be the nominee are also not interested in seeing Vice President Harris at the top of the ticket. I'm wondering if you are hearing a push for a more open race and how you feel about that.

SMITH: Look, I support Vice President Harris. I think she gives us the strongest chance to win. She's been doing a great job as vice president. Obviously, she has the experience, prosecutor, attorney general, senator. I've seen her speak at the Munich Security Conference, very articulately and passionately about U.S. foreign policy and national security policy.

I think she should have to earn it, but I think she will. I think she will announce if the President steps aside. She'll go to the delegates and she'll get that. Now, look, there's no thumb on the scale here. This is a very simple process. There are roughly 4,000 delegates. Those delegates will decide whoever wants to run.

If Joe Biden steps aside, has to convince them. I think Kamala Harris will do that and I support her. But no, no one's trying to push Kamala Harris aside. We want to give her an opportunity.

COOPER: What would, in your mind -- again, I mean, nobody really knows because this is rather remarkable circumstances, but what would the process actually look like? I mean, you talk about those thousands of delegates who are the ones who would decide, how would the appeals be made? I mean, are we talking Zoom calls or open like debates? What?

SMITH: Look, there's 4,000 voters in this election, OK? And every delegation has a delegation chair and they have people who lead different caucuses. You'd get on the phone. You'd call those delegates. Yes, possibly you would get in Oregon (ph), you'd pull. I don't know how many delegates there are in the state of Washington.

Let's say there is 180. Yes, let's get 180 delegates together. Kamala Harris get on there. And if somebody else wants to run, they can get on there too. Look, it's a pretty straightforward election and, you know, it is a democratic process. These are the delegates. They will decide, and I think we should let them.

But let's not bury the lead here. Go back to that debate. You're a Democrat. You're someone who's concerned about Donald Trump. You want someone to be out there fighting for you to win this battle. Is Joe Biden in his current capacity the person that you want? No. We can do better, and we should try, and we have the time to do it.

COOPER: Congressman Adam Smith, I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

SMITH: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, there's more breaking news ahead tonight. New details on the actions of the Trump rally gunman the day before he tried to assassinate the former president and what investigators have now found that could possibly be key to the investigation.

Our John Miller has new reporting next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:44:06]

COOPER: We have breaking news on the gunman who tried to assassinate former President Trump at his Pennsylvania rally last weekend. Our John Miller has new details on what the shooter was doing leading up to the event and what investigators now have that may offer more clues.

John joins us now. So what have you learned about the shooter and how he prepared for this?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the shooter was preparing for a long time and those preparations became more intense as the event grew closer. Sources have told CNN that the shooter was among the things they found in his car was a drone and that having examined that drone, they now believe that around 4:00 the shooter launched that drone to get an aerial view of the area outside the secure zone where Trump was about to speak.

Now, Anderson, what that means in all likelihood is that the shooter used the drone to get a bird's eye view of those buildings. That would have allowed him to see what are the configurations of those rooftops.

[20:45:04]

Were there any personnel stationed on those rooftops like police or a sniper team? How were those rooftops connected between the various buildings in that complex so you could cross from one to another to another? And that is what they -- that is their working theory about what he was doing there.

Another development that talks about his preparation for this was the day of the shooting. He purchased a 5-foot ladder. That ladder was apparently not used to get him to the roof. Apparently he ended up, according to sources briefed on the investigation, climbing on top of an air conditioning unit that brought him about halfway up and then boosting himself onto those rooftops.

But the ladder was missing. Now we are told by people who are briefed on the investigation that the ladder was found near the suspect's house by the side of the road. A workman discovered it after driving by it a few times, stopped to see if this abandoned ladder could be useful and found a backpack that apparently has ties to the suspect. So, as they carry on the investigation, they're getting bit by bit, closer and closer to a much richer picture of all he did to prepare for and get ready for this event.

COOPER: You know, and what are authorities saying about how this gunman managed to slip through layers of security at the event? I mean, spotted by multiple law enforcement people, lost at one point, I guess. And why the Trump campaign -- was Secret Service alerted that there was a potential threat to the former president there?

MILLER: So, that is kind of the bullseye of the questions that the Secret Service director, Kim Cheatle,, is going to face like, on Monday before Congress. But what we are told by people who have tried to develop this timeline within the case is, that the shooter actually went through security through the magnetometers, at which point he had to produce this thing he was carrying, which is a range finder, something that shooters used to measure distances.

But golfers also use them. But at a security screening point, when you see a range finder that's used in making ballistic calculations, that should set off alarms. And it did. They broadcast over the radio after he left the secure area where they knew once he went through the mags, he wasn't armed. But he was carrying this thing and they said, keep an eye on him.

Of course, he ends up way outside the secure area. You know, all of those buildings away later. And then, of course, he manages to sneak up there, to the roof.

COOPER: John Miller, thanks very much. More to learn.

Today, in Butler County, Pennsylvania, we want you to know hundreds of people gathered to pay respect to Corey Comperatore, who was killed as he protected his wife and two daughters during the Trump rally last weekend.

Motorcycles, fire trucks made their way through the area to honor the former fire chief. His members of the community line the roads, many holding signs. This casket was draped with an American flag on top of one of the fire trucks. And as a tribute, the procession made one last ride by his fire station.

A private service was held at a church. Corey Comperatore was 50 years old.

This Sunday night, be sure to watch my weekend show, "The Whole Story," for a deeper look at America's long and bloody history of political violence and its motivations. CNN's Sara Sidner talks with the families impacted, including former Congressman Patrick Kennedy. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Kennedy was involved in a shooting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last report was hit twice in the head, once in the hip.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Losing King and Robert Kennedy in the same season was bad enough, but it reminded Americans of JFK's assassination less than five years before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just a baby when my Uncle Bobby was killed, but I just know what a loss it was, not only for their children, my cousins, but a loss for everybody that knew them and knew how much they wanted to change the world. They had so much promise and so much inspiration and hope as part of their whole message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And Sara Sidner joins us now. I mean the 1960s had so many just shocking death, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Medgar Evers. Did the people you interviewed and talked with feel like -- or how did they compare that time to the time we're in now?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR & SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was interesting talking them through it because they had such a personal story and trauma and they talked about generational trauma that these families have gone through and that the entire country really went through.

But when asked about whether or not they thought that we were in a similar time to the 60s, it was varied. Some of the family members of presidents who had either been assassinated or who had -- there was an attempted assassination, said, yes, we're there, we're at an inflection point in this country.

[20:50:11]

And they're saying it because they're looking on social media. They're seeing how political leaders are responding, particularly how Donald Trump. They were really watching him to see how he would respond. But there was also this sense of, if we aren't there yet, we're going there and this is an inflection point. And we need to look at ourselves, as well as our leaders, to try and stop this from moving into a time that could really send us down a terrible road in America.

COOPER: You also look at the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan in 1981, not a political assassination attempt, but he was nearly killed. What was the political effect that people told you that had?

SIDNER: Look, we talked to his daughter, Patti Davis, and she was so honest and so raw with us about how she dealt with that moment as a child and then how she sees the moment we're in. And she talked about -- she thinks when she hears people say, this is not us. We are not this. We are not violent. She says, really? I think you need to reexamine that.

Look at our history. Four presidents have been assassinated in our history and many others have either been violently attacked or nearly assassinated. Her father nearly assassinated and she said, we are not a nation that is a peaceful nation all the time. When you look at our political history, it's actually from almost the very beginning.

We were a history -- we had a history of violence. And so she said, we've got to look at ourselves. She said, I looked at my timeline after Donald Trump was nearly assassinated. And she said, people that I know and care for and know are good people. We're saying some heinous things. She goes, I had to stop looking at it. I was so disturbed.

And the other thing that really bothered her is when she saw what the crowd did after the attempted assassination in Pennsylvania of former President Trump, where the crowd turned to the media and started saying F you and being really vitriolic with the media, blaming the media.

She said, there is a man who has been killed here. A father, a firefighter who had been killed and two others who were terribly injured. And then you had a president nearly assassinated and this is your response to your fellow Americans.

So she was really disturbed and she was the one that said, I think we're at or maybe even potentially worse than the 60s. We are going to see this reverberate through the country and she's worried there's going to be more violence.

COOPER: Sara Sidner, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Don't miss Sara's report in a new episode of "The Whole Story" this Sunday night, 10:00 p.m. Eastern Pacific only on CNN.

Still ahead tonight, a crippling global tech outage impacting airlines, banks, other businesses, even some 911 services. We'll talk about what caused it and what's being done to get everything back online next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:07]

COOPER: Today's massive tech disruption continues to cause chaos worldwide. One tech expert said this could be the largest IT outage in history. In U.S. airports alone, thousands of flights are canceled or delayed. Frustrated travelers are stranded. Banks, other businesses facing problems. Even some hospitals and emergency services are feeling the impact all throughout the day. All of these caused by a cybersecurity firm's software update.

Jason Carroll has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the blue screen that had customers from critical industries worldwide seeing red (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so upset right now. There are eight people in my party, eight people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was 13 in ours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $456 a ticket. And they're giving me $100 back. That is it. And we're screwed. This man is getting married. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anxiety. When I walked in, I got straight anxiety. All these people, cause I was online, I couldn't find my flight. I was like, did I do something wrong?

CARROLL (voice-over): Anger at airports in the U.S., Canada, Asia and Europe as major carriers struggled to deal with the fallout of what had happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been really wild. It's crazy. It's crowded. People cursing, yelling.

CARROLL (voice-over): The chaos went far beyond air travel. 911 services taking a hit in jurisdictions across the country, impacting Arizona and Alaska. The outage having a sweeping impact throughout the day. UPS and Federal Express warning of delays. The Social Security Administration closed some of its offices, while motor vehicle departments in Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee had service interruptions.

Even the Department of Justice was impacted, and President Biden was briefed on the unfolding situation. Around the world, confusion at international banks as some financial systems were impacted. Disruptions at United Kingdom's National Health System, as well as broadcast networks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And a major global IT outage, largest companies, including us here at Sky News.

CARROLL (voice-over): All global technical outage linked to CrowdStrike, a cybersecurity provider. The company's CEO apologized for the incident, saying it was not a cyberattack but a defect in a software update CrowdStrike was doing that crashed Microsoft Windows causing the outage. He also says a fix has been deployed.

GEORGE KURTZ, PRESIDENT AND CEO, CROWDSTRIKE; We've been on, you know, with our customers all night and working with them. Many of the customers are rebooting the system and it's coming up and it'll be operational because of, you know, we fixed it on our end.

CARROLL (voice-over): It's still not over. The Department of Homeland Security is working with CrowdStrike and Microsoft to fully assess and address system outages.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (on-camera): And the cancelations just continued throughout the early evening here at Newark Airport. CrowdStrike CEO says that it will be a lengthy process before things get back to normal. He promised full transparency into how all of this happened. He also says the company will take steps to prevent something like this from happening again. Anderson?

COOPER: Jason Carroll, thanks.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. Have a great weekend.