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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
When The Going Gets Weird; Trump Says "I'll Probably End Up Debating" VP Harris; Michigan Gov. Whitmer And VP Contender Pennsylvania Gov. Shapiro Campaign For Harris In PA; How Do The Dem VP Hopefuls Stack Up? NC Gov. Cooper Removes Himself From Harris VP Consideration, As Harris And Trump Battle Heats Up; The Group Behind A Massive Effort To "Clean" Voter Rolls; Trump Says FBI Coming To See Him On Thursday As It Investigates Assassination Attempt; Text Messages Show Local Police Sniper Spotted Trump Shooter 90 Mins Before Failed Assassination Attempt. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 29, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ...on his eighth birthday but the outside world didn't know about it until many years later, Erin.
This very public reveal of Kim Ju-ae just a year-and-a-half ago maybe the beginning experts say of a personality call for Kim's daughter, his health, one reason experts believe this might be happening now but many people now know her, the crucial challenges for her to build credibility, especially with the military, Erin. And that is crucial to maintaining the Kim family's power.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Incredible, especially when you consider, I know it's a long process, but to pick a female and she is a girl. She's a child.
All right, thank you very much.
And thanks to all of you for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:40]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, the Harris campaign doubles down on calling their opponents weird and JD Vance claims his childless cat ladies comments are being taken out of context -- we will have the latest from the campaign trail.
Also tonight, breaking news, the Democratic veepstakes and other big name says, no thanks. And new reporting on just how long Donald Trump's would-be assassin was on law enforcement's radar before he pulled the trigger?
Good evening. Thanks for joining us. This is starting out to be another big week for Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. She, trying to build on last week's momentum; he figuring out how to refocus his campaign on her and not Joe Biden. Both are in a race to define or be defined.
In the case of Vice President Harris and the Democrats, that definition is in a word weird when talking about Donald Trump and JD Vance. Here's Pennsylvania governor and potential running mate, Josh Shapiro, using that word about the former president at a joint appearance this evening with Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): The left, have you ever seen this guy like when he's on stage, he like kind of meanders over, can't really walk well and he goes over to the flag and he like hugs the flag, I mean, I love the flag, but it's a weird thing he does, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the focus on the word weird began with another possible VP pick, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and has become the chosen Democratic definition of Donald Trump and JD Vance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): My observation on this, have you ever seen the guy laugh? That seems very weird to me that an adult can go through six-and-a-half years of being in the public eye. If he has laughed, it's at someone not with someone that that is weird behavior. And I don't think you call it anything else.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Every day, Vance -- it comes out Vance has done something more extreme, more weird, more erratic. Vance seems to be more erratic and more extreme than President Trump.
REP. BARBARA LEE (D-CA): It demonstrates and shows us exactly what he believes in by selecting a JD Vance, who is quite you know, as the campaign said, weird, but also pretty unprepared, very scary in many respects.
GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): I mean, on the other side, they're just weird. I mean, they really are, the things that they stand for --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, it's already raising questions that word including from "New York Times" columnist, Thomas Friedman, who weighed in today under the headline, Democrats could regret calling Trump and his supporters weird. Quoting him now, "I cannot think of a silly or more playground, more foolish and counterproductive political taunt for Democrats to seize on than calling Trump and his supporters weird."
As for Trump and his running mate, here is the sample of their attack lines from over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She was a bum three weeks ago. She was a bum, a failed vice president, and a failed administration with millions of people crossing and she was the border czar. Now, we have a new candidate to defeat the most incompetent, unpopular, and far-left vice president in American history. SEN. JD VANCE (R) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: The people are going to learn her record. They're going to learn that she's a radical. They're going to learn that she's basically San Francisco liberal who wants to take San Francisco policies to the entire country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also over the weekend, Senator Vance still seems to be trying to explain why he ever started talking about childless cat ladies. Here he is on Fox last night shortly after host, Trey Gowdy in his lead in said, "The American people are forgiving if we ask."
Senator Vance did not ask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: IF you look at what the left has done, they have radically taken this out of context and in fact, aggressively lied about what I have said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Keeping them honest, it doesn't seem it is being taken out of context. His remarks have been widely played here on CNN and elsewhere showing both his use of the phrase childless cat ladies and the overall notion that he seems to be trying to convey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: We are effectively run in this country be it the Democrats, be it via our corporate oligarchs by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they have made and so, they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too, and it is just a basic fact.
You look at Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, AOC, the entire future of the Democrats is controlled by people without children.
Let's give votes to all children in this country, but let's give control over those votes to the parents of those children.
When you go to the polls in this country, as a parent, you should have more power. You should have more of an ability to speak your voice in our Democratic republic, than people who don't have kids. People will say --
[20:05:18]
COOPER: JD Vance in context. And here's the former president on Fox defending him just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: What can you say to our viewers tonight to reassure them that this was an excellent pick? TRUMP: Well, first of all, he's got tremendous support and he really does among a certain group of people, people that like families. I mean, you know, he made a statement having to do with families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now, CNN political commentators, Bakari Sellers, David Urban, and Ashley Allison, also former Hillary Clinton Campaign Manager, Robby Mook. So Robby, what do you make of this weird attack line that Democrats have been focusing on for JD Vance and Trump?
ROBBY MOOK, FORMER CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, I think a lot of what Donald Trump does and a lot of what JD Vance has been saying is indeed weird and been weird for some time.
I think part of the challenge that Vance has been having is he's not really for anything at all. What he said years ago about Trump was that he thought he was a Nazi, those were his words, that's what he called him. And all of a sudden now he wants to be his vice president, and so I think Vance just doesn't have a strong bed of credibility to fall back on.
All that I would say and I know you mentioned the Friedman piece here is that two things can be true at the same time, the Republicans can be weird. JD Vance can be full of it, but also as Democrats, we have to go out and say what we're for. And so, I don't think this is an either/or here. We really need to get out and make our case. I'm confident that the Harris campaign is going to do that in the coming days.
COOPER: Bakari, do you think these comments from Vance, I mean, does it turn off Independents according to new ABC poll, Harris' favorability rating among Independent voters at 44 percent, which is up from only 28 percent a week ago. Meanwhile, Vance's overall favorability didn't change last week, although his un-favorability rating went up.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, I think what most people look at, just smart people, not, not anybody who's on any particular aisle or anyone who watches nightly news consistently, but most people would simply say Nikki Haley was right there. Like that was the choice for Donald Trump to make -- Nikki Haley or Glenn Youngkin. But that would only be right and that's not what Donald Trump did.
Donald Trump went out and just doubled down on who Donald Trump is. And so, when we're going through this, it's more than just -- and Robby's absolutely correct, it's more than a simple fact of JD Vance being weird or the things that he says being weird. In fact, I kind of want to move away from that.
It's more than the history of Kamala Harris, I want to move away from that. But it's what Democrats can do for you. And the funny part about it is, as I hear, David with this kind of cackle in the background, the funny part about that is --
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL STRATEGIST: It's not a cackle.
SELLERS: You know, Republicans call names, Republicans called names consistently.
They've called her dumb. They've called her a DEI hire. They called her a bum. They called her unqualified. They called her everything but a child of God, and they're going to continue to do that. They're going to go Willie Horton. They're going to say that a woman, a Black woman shouldn't be in this office. They're going to go to the underbelly of the United States of America.
And I'm not saying when they go low, we go high, because when they go low, we go to hell. That's what we say in South Carolina. But when they go low, we are going to punch them in the mouth, but we're going to remind people what a future looks like under Donald Trump versus what a future looks like on a Kamala Harris.
COOPER: David, "The Washington Post" reporting tonight, while speaking at a private fundraiser over the weekend, Vance referred to president Biden withdrawing from the race as, "a political sucker punch," reportedly admitted that Harris does not have, "the same baggage of Joe Biden." I wonder what you make of those remarks and I mean do you think they are worried about running against -- do you think they've found the kind of the message that they are going to stick with now, running against Harris, yet?
URBAN: No, so let me just address a couple of things. So what Robby and Bakari both said, look, I think calling half the United States weird, not a winner. I think Tom Friedman is exactly correct.
When Robbie says and Bakari said, let's talk about the record. Bakari, listen, I'm cool with the t-shirt, just like you said, let's have the strategy, okay, let's have the strategy. Let's focus on Kamala Harris' record.
She ran for president before and ran miserably, ran miserably. Her own campaign staff said, listen, we quit. This is the worst run campaign ever. I've been involved in three campaigns, a state director of three campaigns. I've never been treated or seen staff treated worse than any campaign. She quit. The editor of "The Sacramento Bee" who worked for Kamala Harris previously said, if you can't run a campaign, how do you expect to run the country.
[20:10:01]
When you look at her words, we don't have to guess what she is going to run on. We can just look at her own words and her positions are incredibly extreme. I agree with Bakari. Listen, I don't want to attack Kamala Harris as an individual.
SELLERS: That's not her name. It's not.
URBAN: Let's look process, let's not debate about policy.
SELLERS: Stop, stop, stop, David.
URBAN: Okay, great. Kamala -- how do I pronounce it right?
SELLERS: That's my point exactly.
URBAN: Well, tell me buddy.
SELLERS: That's my point exactly. The fact is, her name is Kamala, but if you call one --
URBAN: Okay, Kamala -- Kamala Harris.
SELLERS: A DEI hire --
URBAN: OI am saying -- oh wrong, Bakari. No, no.
COOPER: Let's not talk over each other because nobody --
URBAN: Yes, Bakari, I'm talking about -- and you know me, and shame on you, Bakari because you know me better than that, so shame on you.
I'm saying, let's talk about her -- let's talk about her record, when she asked for mandatory gun buy backs, says we're going to have mandatory -- when she says, I'm going to do away with private insurance, when she says people in Pennsylvania I'm banning fracking.
COOPER: Okay.
URBAN: My plan for you is that let you transition to get another job. Those are her words. We should focus on those things, not who she is.
COOPER: Got it, David. Okay. Bakari, I do want to go to you because you're pointing out the mispronouncing the name which maybe it was a slip from David, but is something that Trump and everybody needs to --
SELLERS: Yes, we're going to text after this, absolutely love David Urban. So that's neither here nor there. But my point is simply this. When you call a woman who is this accomplished a DEI hire, right? When you utilize those slurs, when you call her a bum, and I love Thomas Friedman just saying that half the country is offended, my point to you, David, is don't you believe that women in this country are equally offended because there are women right now who don't get an opportunity to choose what they want to do with their body.
There are women right now in this country --
URBAN: Bakari --
COOPER: I don't want -- let's not get back to do a back-and-forth between you guys. So, Bakari, finish, actually, I want to get to Ashley.
SELLERS: Let me finish, let me finish briefly and -- and Ashley is definitely more suited to this, than both David and I.
COOPER: Exactly.
SELLERS: But I would just say, that there are women in this country who have different names, who get mispronounced, often and all I'm trying to do is level set and have a level of respect for Kamala Harris, the same level of respect for Kamala Harris that you and I have for each other, David. That's my only point.
COOPER: So, Ashley what do you make of this conversation?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well look, I think that I do hear some things. I think the cat lady thing was weird. I'm sorry, I don't understand it and maybe JD Vance should have taken the opportunity to walk that back, but that's not what politicians do, fine, okay.
But I do think it's important that we actually have a conversation about who Kamala Harris is, who she can be as the president. She might not have had a successful presidential run, but she has definitely been a great senator. She's definitely been a great attorney general and she's been a great vice president. What I just also want to say to the conversation we were just having about saying her name.
Look, I have a name. people call me Allison all the time, it's one of my biggest pet peeves. Take the time and know my name. If you don't want to understand who I am as a person, at least know and be able to pronounce my name correctly or say my name correctly. That is my identity. That's how I am called. So let's take the time. The woman is the second highest office in the land, let's learn her name.
The other thing is that for women out there, look whether you're childless, whether you have a family, some of the things that the Republicans, Donald Trump included are saying it's not just offensive to half the population, which are women. It's offensive two men who are in relation with women.
And so, to think that we shouldn't have bodily autonomy, that we shouldn't be able to be at the top of the ticket that you can call us names like unqualified and bum. It probably is not the first time women who had been treated like this, but as Kamala says, I won't be the first -- I might not be the first -- I might be the first, but i won't be the last.
COOPER: All right, we're going to pick up the conversation after a quick break.
Next, how is Kamala Harris viewed in the swing states. Political strategist, Sarah Longwell joins us with what swing state voters in her focus groups are saying about Harris for president.
Also tonight, CNN investigates how a right-wing group for the history of peddling debunked voter fraud theories is using an app to challenge hundreds of thousands of voter registrations and cast doubt on the November election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:10]
COOPER: There is breaking news and the question of whether there's going to be a second presidential debate. Now that half the first debate is no longer running. Just moments ago on Fox, the former president said, "I'll probably end up debating Vice President Harris," adding, "I think it should take place before the votes are cast"
Joining us now, Sarah Longwell, political strategist, publisher of "The Bulwark" and co-founder of Defending Democracy Together, whose projects include the Republican Accountability Project and Republican Voters Against Trump.
So Sarah, you've been talking to undecided swing state voters in your focus groups about Vice President Harris moving to the top of the ticket what are you hearing?
SARAH LONGWELL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: So broadly, there's been an impression about Vice President Harris for a long time that people don't know what she does. They don't see her that much. And so -- to the extent that she's had a negative impression prior to this, it really stems not from people knowing a lot about her, but feeling like they just don't' see her and just don't know what she's all about.
Which means that in this moment, she's having the chance to re- introduce herself to millions of American voters and can really sort of remake her image, which is why there is a race on to define Kamala Harris. And the Trump administration wants to make sure that swing- state voters hear that she is a progressive from San Francisco.
That's what they want to drill into people's heads. But Kamala Harris is pivoting to the middle. She is -- today she came out and said that she does not believe in a ban on fracking, does not believe in Medicare-for-all. And a lot of these issues are things -- and actually she talked about funding the border.
These are not things or positions that she took back when she was running for president in 2020 in a Democratic primary, but I think one can argue that we see this from a lot of politicians, right? People pivot to the center in general elections, Mitt Romney certainly did it when he kind of remade himself as a moderate governor for Massachusetts to much more conservative presidential candidate.
[20:20:03]
COOPER: Donald Trump did it, JD Vance has done it.
LONGWELL: Donald Trump did it. I mean, look, this is, -- I think part of it, if JD Vance can go from saying that Donald Trump is America's Hitler to being his vice presidential candidate, I think there's some room or Kamala Harris to pivot to the center.
But I do think she understands the assignments. She understands who she is trying to win over. And when you listen to these voters, they're very clear on the issues that move them and that they're interested in hearing. And so when I've done focus groups this week with swing voters, they say, hey, make me your pitch. I'm ready to hear what Kamala Harris is talking about.
Because for a lot of these swing voters, they do not like Trump. They have disliked Trump now for a while, many of them voted against him, not for Joe Biden, but against him in 2020, and then by default for Joe Biden but they didn't want to vote for Joe Biden this time around. Because they felt like he was too old and so they're giving Kamala a really hard first look.
COOPER: What are their top issues?
LONGWELL: Yes, the top issues --
COOPER: And also, how do third party candidates play?
LONGWELL: Well, so number one, the top issue is always inflation and the economy, the second issue is almost always immigration, and so, there's a clear reason I think why she's talking about funding the border right now because that is something that is going to be important to these sort of -- in the blue wall states.
Immigration is still very much an issue that they are concerned about. But she's got to have a message on the economy. She's got to find a way to say, hey, look, we've had the best economic recovery of any industrialized country, but also talk to those voters who don't just want to hear good news because they're still getting hit really hard at the grocery store and at the gas pump. And so, I think that's where Biden was struggling as a messenger.
And so, that's, I think, where she's got to go right now. Sorry, was there a second part of your question?
COOPER: Just third-party candidates.
LONGWELL: Oh, the third-party candidates, right.
COOPER: Just quickly.
LONGWELL: I mean, look, I think when there was -- when you had double haters as your main persuadable group, third parties factored in a lot. She's got to eat into that margins by giving people something, not just to vote against, but to vote for.
COOPER: Sarah Longwell, it's great talking to you. Thank you.
Back with the panel. Ashley, let me start with you, Vice President Harris, I mean, she has a limited amount of time to define herself and what her presidency would look like. David Urban was talking about and we've heard from other Republicans, obviously, they are going to be using the material of what she ran with when she was initially running for president back in 2020.
What do you think she needs to do? I mean, this week?
ALLISON: I think she should do exactly what she's still doing, getting on the road activating every surrogate. Look, two years ago, people didn't think the Democratic Party had an event. Now, we see Vice President Harris on the top of the ticket, most likely the top of the ticket. All these governors, senators out there stumping for what the Democratic message is. She doesn't have to carry this by herself, use the coalition around her that really represents who and what America is to tell the story. I also think, I agree with Sarah, inflation and immigration are important issues. But voters are no longer single-issue voters. Voters understand abortion is an economic issue. Voters understand democracy is at stake, and most elections, since 2022 --2022, 2023 have proven that point.
So, talk to the whole person that is going to go to the ballot and not just speak to -- what to be afraid of, but what opportunities she can provide in a Harris presidency.
COOPER: Robby, I mean, it is interesting, obviously, Trump-Vance Republicans want to use all the more progressive positions that she ran with the last time when she was actually running in the Democratic primary.
Obviously, you have Trump who's changed his positions and certainly JD Vance. How much of a liability is it for Kamala Harris this time?
MOOK: Well, you just pointed out the thing here, which is, I mean JD Vance is probably the worst possible example of someone who has flip- flopped. And so, I think any nuances in her position that she's changing are going to pale in comparison to his.
I also think it's important to point out to go back to a point Ashley made in terms of the opportunities that Harris has. This is a chance to turn a new page. She's her own person. This is going to be a brand new administration, a historic administration and so, I think she has a chance to take all the best parts of what President Biden has done but then set out on her own path as well.
And so, I think distinguishing herself as her own person is going to be really important in this, and she's got a VP nominee and then a convention which are great opportunities to really put that out there in a big way. So, I think that's going to be critical for her.
COOPER: David, you were the first person I heard talking about Kamala Harris' position on fracking in Pennsylvania. I don't know, like right after her -- it was clear she was going to be the nominee. She now seems to be changing that position. It's certainly a wise move, I guess in Pennsylvania. Do you think voters will penalize her for positions that she changes?
[20:25:15]
URBAN: Yes, so Anderson, look, what Robby says, nuanced, it's not nuanced. It's a complete 180, right?
You can't say, I'm for the Green New Deal. I oppose fracking. I will ban fracking. People will be --
COOPER: You can say, this guy's America's Hitler and now he's the greatest thing.
URBAN: Yes, but it's - COOPER: If you can do that, can't you do this?
URBAN: You know what he said, Anderson. No, but Anderson, you know what he said, I was wrong, I made a mistake, and here's why and he explained it. Until the vice president comes out and says, I was wrong. I was wrong about fracking, I was wrong about the Green New Deal. I was wrong about gun buyback -- mandatory gun buybacks. I was wrong about single-parent health care. There's a long list of things she's going to have to say she was wrong about.
And I still want to hear the answer, Anderson.
Andrew Ross Sorkin asked her a question at DealBook -- at "New York Times" DealBook interview, where he said, madam vice president, if you were to become aware that the president was somehow incapacitated, would you tell the American people? And she said, sure, I'd tell the American people. It's my ethical obligation to tell the American people.
So, was she just not in the loop on that? Was she not in the loop that Joe Biden was kind of out of it for a long time? Now that were reading about it in so many publications -- or was she just a part of -- complicit in covering up for the former president. That's a question I'd like to hear her answer as well.
So, these aren't nuanced positions, these are very, very big policy positions, which she now throwing on the scrap heap and starting over.
COOPER: Bakari, I want to give you the final word.
SELLERS: No, I think what my good friend, David is showing is that Republicans really don't know how to deal with Kamala Harris. And I think that whether or not she chooses Josh Shapiro or Mark Kelly, whether or not she chooses any of the other individuals, we will see a campaign that is reset itself. She came out and said she was against an all out ban on fracking.
I think most people in Pennsylvania, will hear that. I will leave the Pennsylvania politics today -- but what I will say is that Bob Casey is up in Pennsylvania by double-digits right now, Kamala Harris' favorability in Pennsylvania is greater than that of Donald Trump.
But there's a long way to go. She still is an underdog and one of the things to Ashley's point. And Ashley has been probably the most consistently right person on this panel, including you, even Anderson, I'll share that. But she has said that Kamala Harris, we don't have to focus on the history of who Kamala Harris is.
We don't have to talk about that. We don't have to talk about these specific things. We have to tell people what she's going to do for them and the difference in why people should vote for Kamala Harris and not against Donald Trump.
I don't think the Republicans are prepared for it because if they were, they wouldn't have waited eight days to figure out how to deal with her, and still David it is throwing things against the wall, hoping they work. But I owe him a beer, so we'll see what happens then.
URBAN: But you're asking people to divorce themselves from reality there.
SELLERS: They voted for Trump.
COOPER: We will have more on the high-stakes veepstakes. Top contender, North Carolina Democratic Governor Roy Cooper has removed himself from being considered.
We'll also take a look at some of those who are still in the running and speak to someone who's been in their shoes before. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:23]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: As we mentioned tonight, sources tell CNN that North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper has taken himself out of consideration to be Vice President Harris running mate. Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who has also bowed out, campaigned today with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, who's still very much a contender.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D), MICHIGAN: I know that freedom is center of mind for all of us when we head to the polls in November. We know that there is a person who will stand shoulder to shoulder with us to fight for our freedoms, and that is Kamala Harris. Let's wake up in November and say the words, Madam President.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: But the most important lesson you taught me on those doors is the importance of being for the people --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SHAPIRO: -- standing up for the people over the power. You know who else stands up for the people every day? Kamala Harris stands up for the people every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As for what voters think, a new ABC/Ipsos poll finds that most people still don't have much of a view. 66 percent have no opinion of Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, 70 percent say the same about Governor Shapiro, and 87 percent have no opinion about Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.
Joining me now is CNN's senior data reporter who has an opinion about everything, Harry Enten. So, I mean, if most adults nationally have no opinion of these possible running mates, how do they fare in their home states?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, you ever feel like you're going crazy, Anderson? I feel like I've been going crazy over the past few days with all the talk about the vice presidents because the fact is, you look at these home states, right? And you look at how these guys did in their last election compared to the partisan baseline, how Joe Biden did back in 2020.
And look at this. What do you see? You see, Josh Shapiro did so much better in his last election than Joe Biden. Look at that by 14 points, Mark Kelly did pretty good as well, five points. Of course, he was running for federal office. So that's I think a little bit of a different baseline than governor.
But a lot of folks have been talking about Tim Walz. The fact is Tim Walz may be folksy. He may be good on the trail. But when it came to the Minnesota voters who knew him best, he only did slightly better than Joe Biden did in 2020. So as you sort of focus this back out, you say to yourself, OK, if I want somebody who actually does best with the voters who know them best, Josh Shapiro, the clear runaway winner, and Mark Kelly not too far behind.
COOPER: So Paul Begala was on the other night. He said he doesn't buy the whole idea of selecting a vice presidential nominee based on thinking that that person can help you win the state. Is there evidence that a VP candidate can actually help the president carry their state?
ENTEN: OK, so we can go into the political science right here. We can run some models. We can look at past elections. And yes, there is. It is small. Mr. Begala is right, it is small. But if you look over time, there does in fact seem to be some impact.
[20:35:01]
We're talking about half a point to two points on average. Sometimes there is that effect, of course, when you're talking about average won't necessarily be there. But when we're talking about on average, yes, there is that impact. And more than that, it's really the only impact that we know that's measurable. The only thing that a vice president can do.
And you think about these elections that we've had in this country, Anderson, they are fought by the closest of margins, right? Pennsylvania last time around was about a point. Michigan was a little less than three points. Wisconsin was a little bit less than a point.
The fact is, elections are decided by the smallest of margins. So even a change of just half a point to two points could make all the difference in the world and could help somebody carry a state.
COOPER: And in terms of home states with potential vice presidential nominees, I mean, Pennsylvania, Arizona would probably be the most important.
ENTEN: Absolutely right. If you were essentially looking and say, OK, is there one state that is going to determine who wins this election? Pennsylvania is the one runaway winner. 30 percent of the time, it determines who ends up winning this potential 2024 election. And you combine that with the fact that Shapiro is so well liked in that state, a 61 favorable rating, the fact that he did so well in 2022. I feel like, again, I'm going crazy because folks don't seem to recognize he's the clear one way winner if you're going to choose somebody who you actually want to help you win this election.
COOPER: All right, Harry Enten, thank you very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Joining me now is Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, a 2016 vice presidential nominee for Senator Hillary Clinton. Senator, good to have you on. What do you make -- Paul Begala was on the other night. He said he doesn't buy this whole notion of a presidential candidate selecting a VP pick based on their state, thinking that they can win the state, that there should be a, you know, somebody who can obviously lead the country, but also somebody who they like and get along with and have rapport with and want to campaign with. What do you think the criteria is?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Yes, Anderson, I think you've got to get over a bunch of hurdles. You know, and I think compelling bio, helping in a state that's a key state, somebody who, you know, has a proven track record who will immediately hit the campaign trail running, especially in a short campaign like this.
But the Dems have many people who will get over those hurdles. And so then the question is, Kamala's got to have somebody that she feels comfortable with, can be in the room with her one on one, give her brutally candid advice, even to say, Madam President, I think you're going the wrong direction.
But then, when the -- when you're out in the public and the Klieg lights are on, we'll be completely supportive of you. And that is such a personal chemistry question. And that was why Hillary and I bonded. She knew I'd be candid with her behind closed doors.
I had been a lieutenant governor in a supporting role to a great governor, Mark Warner, and I'd shown that I could be candid behind closed doors and then supportive in public. And that's what she's going to be looking for. The good news is on the Democratic side, we've got an embarrassment of riches. Many people can be very, very good in that role, and she's got to make a decision that's ultimately about personal chemistry.
COOPER: I understand you've spoken with several of the people who are currently being vetted. I would ask you who you'd spoke to. I assume you probably wouldn't say, but what kind of advice did you give them?
KAINE: Well, I gave them advice like this, don't do a pressure campaign. Don't get folks to lean in because you want Vice President Harris to pick the person that will most help her win, not pick the person that is flooding or, you know, emails and voice messages with a lobbying campaign.
COOPER: Right. KAINE: So, you know, stand out, go out and speak for the campaign, speak for Kamala and you can emphasize your own, you know, bona fides, but it shouldn't be a pressure campaign. And I think those who can very ambitious politicians, and we all are, not appear to overly ambitious have an inside track.
COOPER: You know, we hear a lot about the vetting. Obviously, I mean, pretty much everybody's being vetted, has already been vetted. You know, they were senator, they were governor. Is the vetting --
KAINE: Yes.
COOPER: -- a lot different that you had to go through?
KAINE: Yes.
COOPER: It is?
KAINE: Yes. It is an -- a very, very intense. I went through it with Senator Obama in '08 and then Secretary Clinton, 2016. It's extremely intense. The difference in those years and now is that, those were two-month vets. This is a two-week vet. And what does that mean? It's going to be equally searching, but the universe shrinks.
So, in Obama '08, Clinton '16, you know, it was 30, then 20, then 15, 10, five, two, one. But this is like six or seven. And then you get down to the choice by August 7th, which is the date that the Vice President has said she wants to make the pick.
It is very, very intense. Anything in your life that's ever happened will likely be public and it is super intense, but it's an honor to be asked. Because if you are the one chosen, you have the ability to be the last person in the room to give advice to a president to help them be a great president for a great country.
[20:40:09]
COOPER: Senator Kaine, thank you for your time.
KAINE: Glad to do it.
COOPER: Up next, a CNN investigation into how a right-wing group that has long peddled debunked voter fraud theories has challenged hundreds of thousands of voter registrations ahead of the November election using a pretty simple app.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: A right-wing group fueled by the former president's false allegations of mass voter fraud is teaching people to use an app, resulting in hundreds of thousands of complaints alleging inaccurate voter registrations. Election officials say these complaints are often overwhelming the system and costing taxpayers a lot of money.
[20:45:05]
CNN's Kyung Lah dug into the group's efforts and tried to track them down for some answers. Here's her report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL MOSS, VOTER REGISTRATION WAS CHALLENGED: I've lived in Denton for over 24 years. I have been voting here for two decades. As we can see, I am real. I am here. I am talking to you.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you're wondering why Daniel Moss is defending his existence, it's because of this list --
MOSS: That's my first name. That's my last name.
LAH (voice-over): -- of thousands of voter registrations in Denton County being challenged as ineligible.
MOSS: Finding out that I'm on some sort of hit list of people who shouldn't be voting, I was pretty pissed off.
LAH (voice-over): How did Moss, a legally registered American voter in the state of Texas and a university administrator, end up having his voter registration challenged? Because of the efforts of one group.
CATHERINE ENGELBRECHT, TRUE THE VOTE: Hi there, I'm Catherine Engelbrecht with True the Vote.
LAH (voice-over): True the Vote, a right-wing organization fueled by the MAGA movement.
TRUMP: All of a sudden in certain states they found all these votes. A totally rigged election.
LAH (voice-over): And the lies that the 2020 election was stolen with illegal ballots.
ENGELBRECHT: Welcome to the IV3 project. You have arrived in the nick of time.
LAH (voice-over): This is the group's online training session for IV3, a user friendly app pushed by True the Vote, recruiting and training thousands of private citizens on how to submit challenges to local election offices.
ENGELBRECHT: We've got to report what we can and get it as accurate as we can. And it is making an enormous impact.
LAH (voice-over): Adding up to about 700,000 challenges to voters across the country so far. Documents obtained by CNN show many of them use the exact same language. Daniel Moss's challenge came from someone he doesn't even know.
MOSS: I want to say it was Nancy.
LAH (voice-over): Nancy lives in the same county. And single handedly sent in thousands of challenges this year. We asked around for her.
LAH: I'm trying to talk to Nancy.
LAH (voice-over): But she did not come to the door.
FRANK PHILLIPS, ELECTIONS ADMINISTRATOR, DENTON COUNTY, TX: Nancy sends me something every day.
LAH (voice-over): Frank Phillips is Denton County's Elections Administrator. As November looms, it's not just Nancy sending in challenges now.
PHILLIPS: There have been days where I've received a couple thousand names.
LAH: Isn't it overwhelming to get thousands of names every day?
PHILLIPS: It can be. I've had to look each of those voters up one by one. Roughly 75 percent to 80 percent of the names they give me, we have already dealt with.
LAH (voice-over): And the rest of the names?
PHILLIPS: Well, you would catch them anyway. There's safeguards built into the whole system for any issue you can dream of.
LAH (voice-over): Meaning, any of these questionable voters, like the people who have moved away, the system would eventually catch them anyway. More than a dozen election officials CNN spoke with say they're getting the same challenges, many from IV3 users, when there's already a system in place that prevents fraud. But that's not stopping the leader from claiming this.
ENGELBRECHT: In the space of elections, you know, the fraud has been institutionalized.
LAH (voice-over): True the Vote is based in Texas.
LAH: First, we went to try and find True the Vote's office location, the one it lists on its website as well as federal tax forms. But we didn't find a brick and mortar office. Instead, we ended up here at a post office with a bunch of pill boxes.
Next, we came here to this strip mall that the state of Texas lists as the current address for True the Vote. But it looks like it's a business that files income taxes, and it's a functioning office, but no True the Vote.
LIZZIE ULMER, STATES UNITED DEMOCRACY CENTER: These mass voter challenges are definitely a page out of the election denial playbook. There is a bigger picture impact on our democracy, which is that weakening trust in elections and creating an environment where you can cast out or question the results of an election after the fact.
LAH (voice-over): Back in Denton County, Daniel Moss will be allowed to vote. Elections administrator Frank Phillips found the challenge was wrong. For the people who are making all these endless challenges, he's chosen patience and education. PHILLIPS: In their mind, they think, hey, you've got thousands of people on your rolls that shouldn't be there, which turns out not to be the case. They come in with a preconceived notion. My job is to explain reality.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Kyung joins us now. So Kyung, we saw that you never actually found the True the Vote office. Did you ever manage to reach anyone there?
LAH (on-camera): Oh, we did reach them electronically, and they did send us a statement, and it says about its app, quote, "It has developed a specialized processes, technologies, and methodologies that have been affirmed by experts and courts."
[20:50:06]
But they wouldn't specify who those experts and courts are, nor would they answer specific questions from CNN. We did speak with election administrators across this country who say a lot of the challenges coming from this app are just repetitive, and sometimes, as you saw in our story, Anderson, flat out wrong.
Despite all this, the 2020 election and all of the information and misinformation surrounding, it has been a cash windfall for True the Vote. And the last three years of publicly available records, True the Vote has pulled in some $12 million as a spite having, as you saw, no offices and only a handful of staff.
COOPER: Yes.
LAH (on-camera): Anderson?
COOPER: Kyung Lah, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Next, when President Trump says he'll talk to the FBI about the assassination attempt against him and what snipers from local law enforcement are now saying about what happened that day and especially the shifting timeline.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:03]
COOPER: Tonight, former President Trump told Fox News that the FBI would be visiting him on Thursday to discuss the attempt on his life at Western Pennsylvania rally earlier this month. At a briefing this morning, the FBI said it was -- has conducted so far more than 450 interviews as they try to identify a motive for the shooting.
Also, text messages among local law enforcement on the scene and obtained by CNN showed the gunman's behavior got their attention a full 90 minutes before he actually opened fire. The local police and Secret Service are now facing many questions, obviously, and a local SWAT team member said this to ABC News. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON WOODS, BEAVER COUNTY SWAT TEAM: We were supposed to get a face- to-face briefing with the Secret Service snipers whenever they arrived, and that never happened. So, I think that that was probably a pivotal point where I started thinking things were wrong because that never happened, and we had no communication with the Secret Service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN's Evan Perez joins us now, also former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow. So Evan, Senator Chuck Grassley's office is out with a new timeline revealing law enforcement first became aware of the shooter over 90 minutes before he opened fire. Can you kind of walk us through that?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson. And key -- a key part of this is also what communication there was between those local law enforcement officers, some of whom talked to ABC and the Secret Service, which is, of course, in charge of the security for the former president.
But one of the first things that happens is at 4:26 p.m., a Beaver County sniper who's finishing his shift walks out and he sees the gunman for the first time and he sees him at a picnic table. He notices like a couple other law enforcement officers. Later, they notice that he is not trying to get into the rally. That was the first thing that set him off.
And so he alerts Beaver County and some of the other law enforcement people about his presence. Now, 5:38 p.m., the -- a sniper sends photos of the shooter again to other law enforcement officials. But it's not clear how quickly that gets to the Secret Service. At 5:45 p.m., you see another law enforcement person sending a sniper this -- sending photos of crooks again to other law enforcement people.
The big question that will be pursued, I think, Anderson, after all of this, is whether the local law enforcement people were communicating and how quickly that information was getting to the Secret Service. And whether there should have been a more unified way for information to flow, especially because, again, for 90 minutes, they knew he was there --
COOPER: Yes.
PEREZ: -- and that he was suspicious.
COOPER: Jonathan, what stands out to you about this?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, what stands out to me is when we look at this timeline, it's really disturbing because what we're seeing now are multiple points of intervention that potentially could have occurred by local law enforcement or the Secret Service had there been broad awareness of this individual, right?
Into, you know, Evan's point, you know, the communication, we just don't know how that communication flow went from the local ESU team, the state police and the Secret Service to make everybody aware of, one, anomalous behavior by somebody. And two, when this individual did raise to the -- to a threat level, how a unified approach was going to be applied to address that threat.
And, you know, Evan earlier, you asked, like, you know, is this the case? No. There always should be a unified common operating communications platform at any type of large scale security event. Why that wasn't applied, and why that wasn't in place for this specific event is important to understand from the Secret Service.
COOPER: Yes. Jonathan, just let me ask you, I mean, is it, at any big event like this, is it normal that, you know, there would be communications of like, look, there's a weird guy over there, or here's a picture of a guy who looks kind of weird? I mean, is that standard?
WACKROW: Yes, that's standard. And the Secret Service is, you know, well versed in, you know, how to address those types of individuals that are exhibiting anomalous behavior. They have protective intelligence teams. They work with, you know, local law enforcement, maybe local law enforcement knows who this individual is, and maybe they're no factor.
But this is very -- a very common practice that the Secret Service does engage you in. But the whole point here, Anderson, is for the agents and officers to work in a unified, coordinated manner to address these, you know, this anomalous behavior to ensure that it's not a threat.
COOPER: Right.
WACKROW: And now when we look at a timeline, you know, that has multiple points that they could have, you know, intervened and didn't, that's really disturbing.
COOPER: And, Evan, did the documents released by the senator's office have anything about a contingency plan for an active shooter situation?
PEREZ: Yes, they do. And that's one of the things that, you know, you watch. They have a plan for looking out for drones. This is something that the shooter did. He was flying a drone about two hours before the former president took the stage.
We also know that one of the things that they were preparing for was a lone active shooter. This is exactly what Crooks was. And, you know, one of the things you see in the plan, you see that -- you see them trying to lay out what the plans were for dealing with this contingency, Anderson. And it appears, all of that fell apart.
COOPER: Yes. Jonathan Wackrow, appreciate it. Evan Perez as well, thanks so much.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
