Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Kamala Harris Speaking At Rally In Michigan, Vance Attacks Walz Military Record As Two Veterans Vie For Vice President; Harris Touts New Running Mate Walz In Must-Win Michigan; Taylor Swift Concerts In Vienna Canceled Over Fears Of Terrorist Attack; Former Uvalde School Police Chief, Pete Arredondo Claims No Hesitation In Response To Uvalde Shooting. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 07, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00]
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Today, I also bring greetings from our incredible President Joe Biden.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: That's right, Joe.
(CROWD CHANTING "JOE")
HARRIS: That's right.
And I know we are all deeply, deeply grateful to Joe for his lifetime of service to our nation and we thank you, Joe Biden, each and every day for all you are and all you still have yet to do.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROWD CHANTING "THANK YOU, JOE")
HARRIS: Thank you, Joe. I'm going to tell him what you said.
So, Michigan this has been a big week.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: On Monday, I officially became the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And yesterday, I announced my running mate in this campaign, Governor Tim Walz.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And as you just heard, he has an incredible record as governor of the great state of Minnesota.
And to those who know him best, some people are just getting to know him, but I'm going to tell you, you've got to know him really quick because he's incredible. He's a serious, serious man. He has been a serious leader and he loves our country.
And you know, I've talked to some of the people who know him best, like his wife, Gwen, and to Gwen, Tim Walz's husband; to his kids, Hope and Gus, he is dad; to his fellow veterans, he is Sergeant Major Walz --
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: To the people of Southern Minnesota for 12 years, he was a congressman; to his former high school students, he is Mr. Walz.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And to his former high school football players, he was Coach.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And in 90 days, the nation will know Coach Walz by the title vice president of the United States.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: So, it is good to be back in Michigan, and listen, I am clear, the path to the White House runs right through this state.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And with your help we will win in November.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: We will win. And I know were all clear about what we are up against.
As many of you know, before I was elected vice president, before I was elected as a United States senator, I was elected attorney general, and before that, elected district attorney, and before that, I was a courtroom prosecutor.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Vice President Kamala Harris in Detroit, Michigan, tonight speaking at a rally beside her new running mate, Tim Walz, the governor of Minnesota.
She is in Michigan tonight after being in Wisconsin this afternoon, after being in Pennsylvania last night. There you get a sense of the states that are crucial to this Democratic ticket. I should note CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in that hall right now along with thousands of screaming people. We'll get to Jeff very shortly.
With me here right now, Trump 2016 Deputy Communications Director Bryan Lanza; also, Natasha Alford, senior correspondent for TheGrio; and CNN political commentator, Van Jones. Actually, Jeff Zeleny in the hall, I just want to get a read, Jeff, of what it's like there with all those people and the crowds in general, for this new ticket.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the campaign says this is the largest rally that they've had. It certainly seems like that to me. There are thousands of people gathered at this airport hangar here spilling out onto the tarmac. And that is where Vice President Harris arrived tonight on Air Force Two, using the powerful trappings of office and those powerful images as well.
She stepped off Air Force Two with Minnesota Governor Tim Walz to the adoring chants of their crowd. And now she is making her case here, why she believes it's time to move forward.
Now, talking to voters in this crowd, they are excited. There is no doubt enthusiasm is at a higher level than there certainly has been. And you can perhaps hear right now, the crowd is shouting "Lock him up, lock him up.'
[20:05:11]
That of course has been a refrain about former President Donald Trump, of course, with memories of what was shouted at Trump rallies in 2016 about Hilary Clinton "Lock her up" but Vice President Harris is putting a bit of a spin on that. She said, no, no, the courts will take care of that. She said we need to win in November.
So clearly trying to capitalize on this enthusiasm, even as Republicans are trying to brand this ticket as too liberal for the country. So, John, this is an entirely new moment in this campaign, 90 days until election day in November.
BERMAN: All right, Jeff Zeleny in that hall right now, we'll let you keep watching before you get in trouble with any of the people right next to you.
Van, to you, this is the type of audience that Joe Biden wasn't getting.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is a type of audience very few people in American politics have ever gotten and will ever get. This is a phenomenon.
Kamala Harris has become a cultural phenomenon. There are people who are literally trying to get tickets like it's going to see a Taylor Swift concert or Beyonce event.
Something is happening in this country that I don't think anybody predicted, literally just two-and-a-half weeks ago when Democrats were on kind of a death watch for democracy, talking to their therapists three times a day and here we are with joy breaking out all over the country.
BERMAN: Natasha. NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think, people are seeing the Kamala Harris that's so many admired for so long. And because she wasn't running for president, she was doing the work, you know, maybe behind the scenes, but now you're seeing the charisma, the comfort at the podium, and the way that people react to her.
People see themselves in her in different ways. And I think also Tim Walz, people see themselves in him. Think of all the titles Kamala Harris, just listed, coach, husband, father, servicemen, right? So, basically they're saying this is in America where Americans can see themselves even with our differences.
BERMAN: I will note, these three events have been very similar. The Pennsylvania event used a lot of the same language, the Wisconsin event using a lot of the same language as we're now seeing in Michigan.
Bryan, just one last question about the types of rallies before we get in some of the substance of what we've heard today. Donald Trump cares about crowd size. I mean, he's got to be paying attention to what's been happening on the ground for the Democrats.
BRYAN LANZA, TRUMP 2016 DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes. But he's also paying attention to the facts like remember the big rally in Atlanta that the Harris campaign had last week, by the time Harris spoke, half the crowd had disappeared because they used celebrities to draw the big crowd to get them there to take the photos that say, hey, this is a big crowd size and they perform.
Well, once the celebrities leave, the crowd leaves. So, I think you sort of have to add -- you know, President Trump is smart enough to know that it is being inflated, not by Kamala Harris, but by the celebrities that are trying to prop her up.
BERMAN: Well, okay. Look, there are a lot of people right now in Michigan and Wisconsin and some of them waited for hours to get there. Go ahead, Van.
JONES: You know what's amazing to me is at the Donald Trump rallies now is when Donald Trump comes out, people start leaving. In other words, there's something that is happening here where if you want to talk about crowd sizes and who leaves and who stays. People used to come in Donald Trump rallies to see Donald Trump. Now, they come for the entertainment and when Trump comes, they walk out. That's what's been going on.
BERMAN: And we haven't seen celebrities in Philadelphia, Wisconsin or Michigan today. But, Bryan, I do get what you're saying there.
I do want to talk about some of what we've heard today because, Van, one of the main attack lines from the Trump campaign has been on the way that Governor Walz handled the response to the chaos, the protest, the riots in Minneapolis after the killing of George Floyd.
But there was new audio that came out today of Donald Trump praising Governor Walz at the time, listen to this. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: I'll tell you the best what they did in Minneapolis was incredible. They went in and dominated and it happened immediately. Tim Walz -- again, I was very happy with the last couple of days. Tim, you called up big numbers and the big numbers knocked them out so fast it was like bowling pins.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BERMAN: What does this do to that discussion?
JONES: Well it's ironic, maybe he should have taken -- maybe Donald Trump should have taken notes from Tim Walz when there was an insurrection happening in Washington, DC and Donald Trump did nothing. So, I don't want to hear Republicans talking so much about what happened in Minneapolis when their own president that they are so in love with, sat by and let insurrection happen in the middle of that Joint Session of Congress.
And that same guy they love so much actually, thought Tim Walz did it get did a great job.
ALFORD: John, can I just say something about the George Floyd situation? I mean, we've seen Reverend Al Sharpton come out and say that Tim Walz handled that situation well.
We know that Tim Walz listened to George Floyd's family, he actually intervened and made sure that the state prosecutor took over from the county prosecutor, right? So, these are steps that I think showed the listening that he does and the empathy that he has for families. And I think that's actually going to reflect well on him, not negatively.
BERMAN: Bryan.
[20:10:09]
LANZA: I mean, listen, that's all nice, revisionist history, but if you look at the independent report that came after what happened in Minneapolis, they're extremely critical of the governor. They said he basically froze, was derelict of duty for three days before the National Guard came in.
So yes, ultimately, Tim Walz, the governor, was able to get it right after three days of abandoning the city and watching it burn, watching the police station burn, watching businesses go up in flames, watching people get attacked violently. And finally, he stepped in. So sure President Trump is praising Tim Walz for doing something they should have done on day one that took him three days to finally respond.
But let me sort of bring it back to the reality here, where we are, we're now on day -- within 24 hours after this guy been announced and now there's real questions about his military service and how he first ran for Congress, how he said he was returning from Afghanistan, which he actually never served in the military in combat. So, I don't know. I think from my standpoint, this pick, it appears to be a disaster if there's real questions about his military service and you have people who know him best. He is sort of platoon captain, as the people who he's with, they are the ones being critical of his military service.
So, I don't know. I view this or 24 hours into this knotty conversation Harris campaign wants to have about their VP nominee, sort of misleading his military service because that goes to a question of character and she can't have any more questions about her character.
BERMAN: All right, Bryan, let's do this. Let's play what JD Vance said about that. Then we're going to walk through what some of the facts are here and how they correspond. So listen to JD Vance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JD VANCE (R) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: When the United States Marine Corps, when the United States of America asked me to go to Iraq to serve my country. I did it. I did what they asked me to do it and I did honorably and I'm very proud of that service.
When Tim Walz was asked by his country to go to Iraq, you know what he did. He dropped out of the Army and allowed his unit to go without him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So he has the timeline off there. His unit deployed to Iraq in July of 2005, he retired in May of 2005. So, months before then, and typically, you would have to put your papers in even before officially retiring He filed for Congress in February. So, that was the sequence of events there.
Though he was not with that unit he had served with when they just -- hang on -- that's just the timeline. That's just the timeline.
LANZA: No, let me give you the timeline because the reporting is the timeline is that Tim Walz received information before those orders take place that they were going to go to Afghanistan and the timeline based on reporting, the AP, other people in Minneapolis who probably have direct access, they were talking that that notification came in early January of that year.
So, it may have not been an official notification that the governor had, but he certainly heard that through his commander, through his leadership position that what the new timeline was going to be, and he did retire.
BERMAN: All right. again, the timeline that we have is that February, he files for Congress. May, he is retired. He would have had to put in the papers before that, and July is when the unit deploys.
On this part of this discussion, Van, where do you see it going? JONES: Well, I think it's kind of stupid. I mean, he's basically -- he spends 24 years serving his country in the military, which I don't think anybody here, including the critic that we have on air can touch that record and you just start with that, and then he says, I haven't served enough. I want to now run for Congress to serve more. And he runs in a red district and he wins, and he continues to serve. So, I think --
LANZA: Van, I think the problem is he lied about his service. I think that's the question that people are having.
JONES: No, no, I'm sorry, you've had a chance to lie and smear and do stuff you've been doing. I guess --
LANZA: No, the facts have been showed --
JONES: No, you're actually wrong.
LANZA: No.
JONES: You're absolutely wrong.
LANZA: He lied -- there's reporting that he said he ran -- that he was in Afghanistan. He stated that.
JONES: That's a different point, that's a different point.
BERMAN: Van, you finish and then we're going to take up that next point. Go ahead.
JONES: Look, there's a different point about -- that we can get to, but it is absolutely clear and our reporting is clear that he decided to run for Congress before he was called up, before his unit was called up, he was never called up.
BERMAN: The only thing that Bryan is talking about here is a video that was surfaced actually by the Harris campaign where Walz talks about guns. He's talking about how he supports the assault weapon ban and how he doesn't -- people think he should carry them and he says roughly and I'm sort of paraphrasing here. People shouldn't carry these weapons, weapons that I carried in war.
Now, in a point of fact, Tim Walz, never did serve in a combat zone. He did serve in Italy in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. He did not serve in a combat zone itself though his language may have led some to believe that he did, Natasha.
So is that language in itself, how problematic do you see that?
ALFORD: I think that using the term 'carry' versus saying that you were actively in combat are two different things, right? And so, I think that he's a thoughtful person and I think that he's been very clear that he wasn't in an act of combat.
I come from a military family, right. This sort of attack feels very partisan and nasty and sort of beneath us. This is not the sort of conversation that you would expect from one veteran to another.
[20:25:10]
And the veterans who previously did criticize Tim Walz, one was running against him, right? He was a rival. So, there were political reasons for bringing this up. There are political reasons for bringing it up now. And I think all he has to do is point to the service members who have gone on the record and said he was brave and that he was a leader at the time.
BERMAN: Bryan, I promised you to let you have a say on this after the break. We're going to take a few minutes here.
Next, what voters in Wisconsin made of today's dueling campaign business in what is now a full slate of candidates.
Later, more breaking news. Everything we are learning about the cancellation of Taylor Swift's three upcoming concerts and the connection to what authorities say they foiled.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: This is a live look at Detroit, Michigan. A rally right now for the new Harris-Walz Democratic ticket. The Vice President Kamala Harris is still speaking, I believe somewhere in front of that crowd. This is her third rally in two days, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and now, Michigan.
It is notable JD Vance was actually in Wisconsin at the very same time as the Harris-Walz ticket, which we'll get to in just a minute.
[20:20:09]
Back with me now, Bryan Lanza, Natasha Alford, and Van Jones.
And Bryan, I did promise we'd come back to you on this discussion about the military record of Tim Walz.
LANZA: Yes, listen, his record is fair for criticism. He's leaning very much into it, but listen, it brings a lot of issues and I'll tell you why, there's a photo of him during a 2004 photo of him where he refers to himself as an Enduring Freedom veteran for Kerry.
The problem is the military -- the Department of Defense does not qualify him as somebody who is a recipient of the Enduring Freedom title. So either he misrepresented himself to run for office or he -- or the correction is now. But the problem is, he can't have it both ways. He can't claim that you know -- he served in combat and then 20 years later when it's an inconvenience, say, oh, it is just no big deal.
It goes to character and that's a problem for the campaign. The fact that we're talking about it more and more people are going to be talking about it. It's not what Kamala Harris wants to be talking about.
BERMAN: Bryan is talking about it and there's no question that Republicans are talking about it.
LANZA: The media is talking about it, too.
BERMAN: I know, and it is all over social media, Vans, so to that point, do you think this is something that the campaign needs to address in a bigger way than they have?
LANZA: Yes. So clean up. It's conceivable that he's been loose with his language or said stuff that doesn't -- I mean people are human beings on these campaign trails and so, but now he's running for a major position.
If he needs to clean it up, clean it up. The reality is, if he said one or two things or said some things that turned out to be maybe a little bit just sloppy, fix it because he's got a gazillion people who are willing to stand up for his character. He's got gay students who are willing to stand for his character. He's got people he served with who will stand for his character.
If this comes down to a character contest between this ticket and Donald Trump, we're going to win 50 states. So let's just get this cleaned up and move on.
BERMAN: So, I was mentioning that in Wisconsin, JD Vance was there at the same time as Vice President Harris and Tim Walz earlier today. And actually on the same tarmac as the plane. Their planes were there together and JD Vance just walked right over and spoke to the media and I think we have some sound of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I just want to check out my future plane, but I also wanted to go say hello to the vice president and ask her why Kamala Harris refuses -- why does she refuse to answer questions from the media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Natasha, how do you think that plays?
ALFORD: I mean, I think so many people will be turned off by this. Literally, the stalking it's like Donald Trump walking behind Hillary Clinton during the debate.
How dare you, right? This is the vice president of the United States. It shows a lack of respect and again, for women, this is a huge election for women, women's rights, our sense of selves, our sense of not having people control our bodies, and not having people control us.
And so, that's like stepping into her territory. It's this very -- the physicality of it is supposed to send a message and I cannot wait until she takes that debate stage so she can fight back.
JONES: And also, she's only been running for president for two weeks. Don't forget it's only been two weeks. She had to get the nomination. She had to pull our party together. She had to pick a vice president. She's been a little bit busy.
She does need to get in front of some reporters and do some interviews, but she has been a little bit busy the past two weeks. You can't be too mad about that.
BERMAN: Van Jones, Natasha Alford, Bryan Lanza, thank you to you, remotely, really appreciate it.
Again, this was the second Harris-Walz rally of the day, the one you're looking at right now. The first one as we just mentioned was in Eau Claire, Wisconsin where JD Vance did speak at a private event.
Our Randi Kaye was there as well speaking with voters outside both events.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What do you think about people sort of the two campaigns descending on Eau Claire today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's very exciting.
KAYE (voice over): In Eau Claire, Wisconsin.
KAYE (on camera): What do you want to hear from Kamala Harris and Tim Walz?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, just the truth, peaceful, joyfulness, happiness. None fighting, no more divisiveness, just positive energy.
KAYE (voice over): Two different campaign events.
KAYE (on camera): Are you hopeful that the Trump-Vance team can win Wisconsin?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, and I think he is growing every day in Wisconsin.
(CROWD CHANTING "USA")
KAYE (voice over): And two very different opinions from voters.
Outside the rally for Vice President Kamala Harris and her newly minted running mate, Tim Walz, voters could hardly contain their excitement.
CINDY SAMPLES, HARRIS CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER: When Kamala became the presidential candidate, my whole being changed. I've been really upset and worried and fear.
KAYE (on camera): And now, you feel how?
SAMPLES: Hopeful.
KAYE: What do you love about Governor Walz?
SAMPLES: That he is down to earth and it is my own damn business and he called the other people weird. I like that.
[20:25:05]
KAYE: What did you think when you heard that Harris chose Governor Tim Walz as her running mate?
TODD ADAMS, HARRIS CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER: I thought it was a good move. I think he's well known around here and I think he's got the right attitude. I just hope everything keeps on a positive trajectory and we can talk about what really matters for the people in this country here.
JIM DEROSIEL, HARRIS CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER: I like his truthfulness and the things he's done for the state of Minnesota are amazing.
(CROWD CHANTING "CRAZY")
KAYE: But just about five miles down the road at JD Vance's event, these voters had nothing nice to say about Harris or Walz.
JANE FLEMMING, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER: We can't go four more years, much less four months as we are now. So, we're hoping for a big change.
JUDY CULVER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER: Like Trump said, if she gets in America is going to be a bloodbath. It's just -- we need to get Trump in and bring America back great again.
KAYE (voice over): Some zeroed in on Walz handling of the riots in Minnesota following the death of George Floyd.
DEB CHRISTOPHERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER: He let Minneapolis burn down and he didn't call in the National Guard and then --
KAYE: He did eventually call on the National Guard.
CHRISTOPHERSON: Five days. Okay, five days later. Okay, a little too late and then to say that it was peaceful. There was nothing peaceful about what happened there.
KAYE (voice over): Back across town, Harris-Walz supporters pushed back on Trump's running mate, JD Vance.
LINDA RUNSTROM, HARRIS CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER: Oh, I read his book. I thought he was a different person when I read that book, but no, he's shown his true colors.
KAYE (voice over): And they were even less complimentary of the man at the top of the Republican ticket.
KAYE (on camera): How do you feel when you hear Donald Trump say things about Kamala Harris like she just recently turned Black?
SAMPLES: Well, it just shows what a horrible person he is and he is racist. ADAMS: It's just meant to kind of site and divide and I'm tired of that and I think a lot of people are as evidenced by the people here today.
DEROSIEL: Oh my God and my soul, just the joy she brings and it is just positive. We've had such negativity for how many years since 2016? Since the escalator incident? I'm just done with it. I think America is too.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: And Randi Kaye is in beautiful Eau Claire, Wisconsin tonight.
Randi, with these dueling events, so many eyes are on that county. Remind us which way the county and the state of Wisconsin has voted the last two elections?
KAYE: Well, John, let's look at statewide first. Here in the State of Wisconsin in 2016, Trump won the state of Wisconsin, he beat Hillary Clinton by a little more than 22,000 votes. But then in 2020, Wisconsin turned blue again and Joe Biden beat Donald Trump by a little more than 20,000 votes.
But then if you look closer at this county where we are Eau Claire County, Trump is oh and two in this county. He has lost this county twice. In fact, in 2016, Trump got it about 43 percent of the vote and Hillary Clinton took about 50 percent of the vote and then in 2020, Trump again got about 43 percent of the vote and Joe Biden got about 54 percent of the vote.
So, we'll see what happens this time around. We'll see if Kamala Harris and Tim Walz can keep Eau Claire County blue and if they can bring home a win here in the state of Wisconsin -- John.
BERMAN: Clearly, the Democrats now, they are trying to run up the score a little bit.
Randi Kaye, thank you so much.
Coming up, how these VP picks reflect on the person making them and how they have played out in the past. The two men who helped craft the message and strategy of the Clinton-Gore campaign back in 1992 will join us, James Carville and Paul Begala. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:27]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what, if you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I'm speaking.
(CROWD CHEERING) BERMAN: That was the vice president just moments ago in Detroit responding to a heckler. Now, we cannot hear what was said. According to CNN's Jeff Zeleny, who is there, about eight protesters took part in the moment, just one part of the larger moment we've been seeing, which is the unveiling of a presidential running mate. It's always something of a Rorschach test for voters about the decision-making abilities of a potential future commander-in-chief. Take a look at how several of them played out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, (D) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is the next vice president of the United States of America, Senator Al Gore of Tennessee.
(APPLAUSE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I'm proud to announce that Dick Cheney, a man of great integrity, sound judgment and experience, is my choice to be the next vice president of the United States.
(CROWD CHEERING)
JOHN MCCAIN, (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am very pleased, I'm very privileged to introduce to you the next vice president of the United States --
(CROWD CHEERING)
MCCAIN: -- Governor Sarah Palin of the great state of Alaska.
(CROWD CHEERING)
BARACK OBAMA, (D) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The next vice president of the United States of America, Joe Biden.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: A walk through history there. Now, Bill Clinton's selection of Al Gore, the first clip you saw, there was a team kind of unusual at the time. They formed the youngest team ever to make to the White House, both were from the south. Both were also members at that time of the party's more moderate wing. Two men who helped make that winning election possible join me now, James Carville and Paul Begala.
All right. First of all, I have to say the 20-year-old political junkie in me would have been so psyched that one day I'd be talking to both of you all at once, so thank you for that.
(LAUGH)
BERMAN: James, let me start with you. When Bill Clinton picked Al Gore as his running mate, it was kind of doubling down on young, new Democrat, the south, the future. Where do you think the Tim Waltz pick, now that we are one day in, where do you think the Harris campaign is placing its bet with that?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, first of all, I think that they feel like this guy has got an incredible resume, that we've traditionally had weaknesses would say people have (ph) watched football that military people, that an effective governor (inaudible) like a vitamin.
[20:35:00]
Honestly, every time I find out something new, I kind of like the guy more. But, they clearly, we were looking more for generational change and that worked for us. But maybe she was looking for something else and I hope it works for her. I think it might.
BERMAN: We are looking at pictures, Paul, right now, of the two of them on stage together and we saw pictures before of Bill Clinton and Al Gore on stage together. And you guys had them out together quite a bit in 1992 for the famous bus trip and everything else, how much do you think this campaign should have the vice president and Governor Walz together while they campaign?
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think more than I would have recommended a week ago. There is something there; there is an alchemy, there is chemistry. It is real and you can't fake that, believe me. I was on those buses with Bill Clinton and Al Gore, and Hillary and Tipper, and we laughed our butts off. We had so much fun. I'm serious; it was authentic. By the way, these are two men that didn't know each other very well -- Clinton and Gore.
I don't know that Governor Walz and Vice President Harris knew each other very well before. But sometimes, I think this is only the second time in my career I've seen it, first was Clinton and Gore. You see this pair becoming greater than the sum of its parts. My own sense is that Vice President Harris' first -- she passes the first test. Could this guy step in? God forbid and there is no question that someone who has served 24 years in the military, 12 years in the Congress, six years as governor is ready.
But then second, would he be a good governing partner? And I think you are seeing in that in that energy together that the answer is yes. But then third, look, will he help me reach out to voters that James is talking about? You know, guys who wear Carhartt jackets and shoot 12- gauge shotguns at (inaudible) somebody who does both those things, I think it's a really great pick that way.
BERMAN: James, you were one of the earliest and I think the loudest voices to suggest that President Biden need to jump, needed to step down, needed to stop running in this election.
Right.
BERMAN: Now that it's happened, now that it's a few weeks in and you've seen how the Harris campaign is running, how do you think it is going? And what is your warning to Democrats about maybe whether they're experiencing a sugar high right now?
CARVILLE: Well, first of all, I think the campaign so far -- hadn't been very long -- has been flawless. And I love to critique from the announcer's boxer. Well, I think they could have done this better. I think so far, what they've done has been almost flawless. I just take this lunacy -- I saw David Axelrod went on this network and said, you've got to be careful, this race is essentially tied, and these idiot progressive site started attacking David for saying what is a fact.
The race is essentially tied. We could lose it. We don't -- let's not be on a sugar high. We got hard work to do and we've got to continue saying that and we got to continue to protect people like David who are out there telling the truth against these fools that have never been around a political campaign in their whole life.
BERMAN: Paul (inaudible) back in 1992, another thing that you guys did was rapid response, right? I mean, any little thing that came up, you tried to swat down pretty quickly, and frankly, a lot came up and you had a lot of swatting to do.
(LAUGH)
BERMAN: I guess my question to you is, when we see now the questions being raised about the military record of Governor Walz, when you see phrases -- and I'm going to say this out loud -- Republicans are calling him 'Tampon Tim' for the fact that he signed a state law that mandated menstrual products in girls and boys bathrooms. This was an accommodation to transgender students. When you see these, how do you think the Harris-Walz campaign should respond?
BEGALA: Counter attack. There's this huge myth and it goes all the way back to do Caucus Campaign. Democrats lose because they don't respond. I think mostly because of James Carville, the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign changed that. We didn't simply respond; we counter attacked., right? And I'm quoting my best friend and partner here. I was telling your producer before, we talk every single day and have for 41 years. And James, used to say, it's kind of hard to talk when that fist is in your mouth, right?
(LAUGH)
BEGALA: So, hit him -- hit him, governor -- hit him, madam vice president. Make them, here's the thing -- I've checked the rulebook. We are allowed to attack them and let them worry about responding to us. And I think frankly, the vice president and Governor Walz have done a terrific job because he used ridicule, these ridicule -- they are not just hair-on-fire hysterical; they're hilarious.
And I think that's the way -- that's the way you take down a bully, is with ridicule, and the governor was right when he said, look, they are just weird. And I think that's terrific.
BERMAN: Gentlemen, I have to say it was every bit of the dream I thought it would be, when I didn't imagine this 20 years ago -- 30 years ago. Thank you very much. CARVILLE: Thank you, John.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: James Carville and Paul Begala, thank you.
BEGALA: Thanks, buddy.
BERMAN: All right, coming up, more breaking news. Three Taylor Swift concerts canceled after fears of a terrorist attack.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:44:05]
BERMAN: All right, we have breaking news now. Three Taylor Swift concerts in Austria are canceled just a day before the first one was to occur. Authorities say they arrested two suspects in connection to plans for an alleged terrorist attack in the Vienna region. And late this evening, authorities say new detentions have been made as well. With us now, our Chief International Security Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh and Former CIA Officer Bob Baer.
Nick, first to you, what more do we know about the plot at these concerts? Specifically, who was arrested and how they allegedly planned to carry it out?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Not a full picture, John, but some key details. There is a 19- year-old Austrian citizen, now he has been arrested in down of Ternitz, about an hour to the south of the Ernst Happel Stadium venue where Taylor Swift for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday will perform in front of about 65,000 fans. Those concerts are off.
[20:45:00]
But the search of this 19-year-old's home began in the morning, stretched through the afternoon, involved, local media says, about 60 nearby houses being evacuated. Essentially, police worried about the chemical substances they were finding there, essentially, precursors for explosives and seemed to be clear that they believed the focus of all of this was the Swift concerts.
Now, later in the day in Vienna, another arrest occurred. We don't know much about that arrest. Police saying the investigation is ongoing and they don't want to release details, but they also said they have been further detentions. That puts us to at least three at this stage, all focused on Taylor Swift, the 19-year-old, and the second person arrested, having both been radicalized by ISIS online. The 19-year-old taking the extraordinary step online of pledging his allegiance to the ISIS leader as recently as the end of last month. So, startling frankly, that someone at that age is drawn in purely over the internet, John.
BERMAN: Whole thing is startling. Bob, security has been increased at the concerts before the decision was ultimately made to cancel them. So, what does that say to you? And how challenging is it for authority to be sure that they have all the alleged plotters in custody?
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Well, John, they can't be sure. Right now, they probably detected these people online in chat rooms. But how big the network is, they don't know yet. This is why they've canceled. And if they thought they had arrested everybody, I don't think they would have. And I think it was beyond aspirational and these chemicals, I don't know what they are, acetone peroxide -- these are the normal bombs for the Islamic State.
So, I think this is fairly a serious threat. And don't forget, John, this won't be the first concert attack. There was Manchester 2017, there was Paris 2015, and this year, there was Moscow. These are symbolic targets for the Islamic State and as tension rises in the Middle East, I think we are going to see more of this.
BERMAN: Nick, you've just been doing reporting on how ISIS is radicalizing young people. Is there anything that you learned that you think could be relevant here?
PATON WALSH: Yeah. Look, I mean, 100 percent, this follows a very chilling pattern that we've seen European counterintelligence -- counterterrorism investigators gather over the last year or so. According to one study we've reported on, nearly two-thirds of the people arrested in Europe in the last nine months have indeed been teenagers and so many of them have been radicalized online through social media platforms like TikTok, who say they do all they can to prevent that on their resource.
But essentially, the research suggests this is algorithmic amplification is the phrase known, you maybe start looking at something relatively benign and then get dragged deeper by the algorithms into more extremist content. And then perhaps off that platform, into another one where you maybe in a chat room and potentially, approached by an ISIS recruiter. In today's plot, police did say that some of the communication occurred through encrypted communications. So, all the signs here -- teenagers, social media, encrypted means as well, and ISIS in the mix too -- real concerns too, John, about the return of what they call the directed threat.
And that's not just people deciding to do something and then claim they were part of ISIS afterwards. This is a recruiter, an organizer reaching out, finding someone to do something and then suggesting a plan, John.
BERMAN: Whole lot going on here. And Bob, one of the things that authorities said is that two suspects at least, had undertaken what they call concrete preparatory measures for a terrorist attack. So, what do you think would fall under that category?
BAER: Well, any means of mass murder at one of these concerts like we saw at Manchester. It could be weapons; it could be chemicals. Ultimately, Taylor Swift is well protected, getting to her would be very difficult, but disrupting one of these concerts would be enough. And all you need is one suicide bomber with one of these vests and the detonators are very easy to make at home. And the chemicals are easy to boil. And that's probably what they're looking at. I mean, these are the first reports, but again, to cancel these concerts -- these three days of concerts tells me it was a real threat.
BERMAN: Look, this whole thing deeply troubling. Hopefully, we'll learn out more -- learn more in the next few days. Nick Paton Walsh, Bob Baer, thanks so much to both of you.
Still to come, a CNN Exclusive, more than two years after the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, the Former School Police Chief Pete Arredondo facing felony charges for the botched law enforcement response as 19 children were murdered, is speaking to our Ed Lavandera. Next, his response to those who consider him and others cowards.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:54:00]
BERMAN: For more than two years, the families of the 19 children and two teachers who were murdered inside two classrooms of Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, have waited to hear from the School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo. You will likely remember, he and other police waited 77 minutes to confront the gunman.
In June, he and a former school police officer became the first law enforcement officers or officials to be criminally charged after the deadliest school shooting in Texas history. Arredondo just spoke on camera with our Ed Lavandera. This is a CNN Exclusive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What do you say then to those critics, and a lot of them are fellow law enforcement officers, who say you guys didn't handle the situation properly? And many people who, as tough as it might sound, consider you guys cowards with the way you act that day.
PETE ARREDONDO, FORMER UVALDE SCHOOL POLICE CHIEF: I strongly disagree and again, opinions vary, sir, and they're going to. But I can tell you that probably 100 percent of those people hadn't been in a situation like that before.
LAVANDERA: Do you feel like you guys are being singled out, scapegoated?
[20:55:00]
ARREDONDO: By all means, since the very beginning, sir. I've been scapegoated from the very beginning.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Nearly 400 law enforcement agents responded to the Robb Elementary shooting scene on May 24, 2022. Arredondo has now been charged criminally for his actions that day, facing multiple felony counts of child endangerment. He and his lawyer, Paul Looney (ph), sat down with CNN and spoke for more than an hour about the shooting.
LAVANDERA: I keep thinking about what are the questions that the victims' families would want to ask you. And I think, ultimately, it all boils down to, it is like, how come officers didn't go into that room sooner?
ARREDONDO: Right, right.
LAVANDERA: What do you say to those families?
ARREDONDO: If you look at the bodycam footage, there was no hesitation in myself from the first handful of officers that went in there and went straight towards the hot zone, as you may call it, and took fire. And then at that point, we worked with what we had.
LAVANDERA: The protocols of -- as I understand it, of active shooter training is you go after the gunman and you focus on the gunman until he or she is taken out. That didn't happen in this case. Why not?
ARREDONDO: We couldn't -- again, you can't see what is on the other side of a wall. At that point --
LAVANDERA: But, you were supposed to get through that wall.
ARREDONDO: Right. You can't -- you can't see through it, first of all. So, when we are shot at and we backed off to think, OK, now we know where he's at, because we didn't know where he was at. That's when we took fire and backed out and realized, OK, now we need to come up with a plan and get back up there.
LAVANDERA: If I show you a couple of videos clips, would you mind? I'd love just to -- as we watched them, I'd love to get your perspective on what --
ARREDONDO: I'm sorry, but I'd rather not look at video clips, sir, I just don't. I just -- I just don't. I've kept myself from that. It's difficult for me to see that. These were my children too and people understand that. We went down the hallways every day and stressed about keeping doors locked, stressed about being vigilant, and the last I see of those three, the less I see (inaudible) the better for me.
LAVANDERA: What the bodycam video clips that Arredondo refused to watch show, is that on that day in the hallway at 12:09 p.m., he said he knew there were likely victims in the room with the gunman.
ARREDONDO: As soon as they clear this room, I'm going to verify what's been vacated, guys, before we do any kind of breaching. Time is on our side right now. I know we probably have kids in there, but we've got to save the lives of the other ones.
LAVANDERA: In that moment when lives at stake, why did you think time was on your side?
ARREDONDO: I don't recall making that statement. I'm sorry, there are some things that you don't recall while you're in the hallway.
LAVANDERA: As we've watched bodycam footage of what happened and how those 77 minutes unfolded inside Robb Elementary, you're on those tapes, constantly giving orders to other officers.
ARREDONDO: We're going to clear out before we do any breaching. We're going to clear out these kid's class.
LAVANDERA: The sense was that those officers were deferring to you as the lead officer. So, why shouldn't you bear the brunt of the responsibility of how all that unfolded?
ARREDONDO: Sure. And it's natural for me to give direction with what information you have while you're in there and again, limited information on the inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No entry until the chief of police gives you permission there.
LAVANDERA: Arredondo now claims there were state police officers from the Texas Department of Public Safety who arrived after him, who should have set up an incident command post and taken control of the scene.
ARREDONDO: The guidebook tells you the incident commander does not stand in a hallway and get shot at. Incident commander is someone that's not in the hot zone and is in another location.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get ready for friendlies.
ARREDONDO: Tell them to fucking wait.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody enter.
LAVANDERA: Do you think you made any mistakes that day?
ARREDONDO: Again, that's a hindsight statement. You can think all day and second guess yourself. I know we did the best we could with what we had. And by running into that building and not leaving there and doing what we could or doing what I could and what the other officers could, it was the best we could with the situation we had and the information we had.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Wow, Ed Lavandera is with us now. And just wow, what a discussion to have. At any point, did Arredondo express remorse to you?
LAVANDERA: Yeah, no, he thinks -- he says he thinks about what happened that day all of the time. The wife of one of his cousins was so one of the teachers in that classroom who was killed. He understands the impact that has on the community, but he also balances that with a great deal of frustration with what he describes as the early narrative put out by state troopers, that he should have been the one taking control of that scene.
So, that clearly weighs on him a lot and will be a major factor of the criminal trial that he's facing here in the months ahead. We should point out that we've reached out to the Department of Public Safety for comment, but we have not heard back.
And we also asked Arredondo and his lawyer, if that trial, that criminal trial that he is facing will take place in Uvalde or if they will ask for a change of venue?
And his lawyer told us that, right now, they're inclined to keep the trial -- not ask for a change of venue, to have that trial in Uvalde, so that the people there can hear what Pete Arredondo has to say, during the course of that trial.
