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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Abortion Contortion, Sen. Vance's History Of Comments On Abortion; Vance Says Trump "Likes To Have Some Fun" When Asked About Vulgar, Sexual Repost About Kamala Harris And Hillary Clinton; Trump Asks To Delay NY Hush Money Sentencing, Citing New Federal Election Subversion Indictment; NHL Star Johnny Gaudreau And His Brother Killed By Alleged Drunk Driver On The Eve Of Their Sister's Wedding. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired August 30, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Even Kamala Harris seemed awestruck by the trajectory her like has taken.
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The most extraordinary story ever told.
WAGMEISTER: And for Reese.
ALLISON REESE, COMEDIAN: Can you believe, it's only been a month. This (bleep) has only been a month. I'm killing it.
WAGMEISTER: Elizabeth Wagmeister, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: All right, not too bad there. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you for that report.
And that is it for us. Thank you so much for joining us, AC360 starts now.
[00:00:31]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, after one flip-flop today and one-half twist, where does the former president really stand on abortion? What he said, and what voters could make of it, keeping them honest.
Also tonight, that vulgar post he spread online about sex acts, Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton. His running mate was asked about it and how he tried to explain it is causing fresh uproar.
Later, all we're learning about the tragic killing of a star hockey player and his brother by a suspected drunk driver the very night before their sister's wedding.
Good evening. Jim Sciutto here, sitting in for Anderson. The former president will be speaking tonight at the Moms for Liberty Convention here in Washington. That is the right-wing group which got its start pushing to restrict sex education topics in schools and banning books on gender and sexuality from school libraries.
We begin though, keeping them honest with the knot the former president has just tied himself into over abortion. Not for the first time either, and potentially not without electoral consequences.
It involves Florida, one of 10 states with abortion measures on the ballot this November, Donald Trump is, you may remember a Florida voter.
Yesterday, he was asked about the state's proposed ballot measure on a constitutional amendment protecting the right to abortion until fetal viability, roughly 24 weeks. The amendment would make the states new six-week ban unconstitutional. And here's what Florida voter Donald Trump said about how he'd vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think the six-week is too short it has to be more time. And so, that's -- and I've told them that I want more weeks.
REPORTER: So, you'll vote in favor of the amendment?
TRUMP: I'm voting that -- I am going to be voting that we need more than six weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: All right, just to underscore, there are only two choices on that amendment, yes or no? No means the six-week ban could remain. Yes would enshrine the right to an abortion up to 24 some weeks, 24 is greater than six. You might notice, and Mr. Trump said, "I am going to be voting that we need more than six weeks". Meaning at least by the logic of it, he would vote, yes, given that choice.
A short time later, a spokesperson tried to say, that is not what he said, quoting her now, "President Trump has not yet said how he will vote on the ballot initiative in Florida. He simply reiterated that he believes six weeks is too short."
Well, today, however, he made it explicit. He is voting no.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you voting yes or no on Amendment Four in Florida.
TRUMP: So, I think six weeks you need more time than six weeks. I've disagreed with that right from the early primaries when I heard about it, I disagreed with it.
At the same time, the Democrats are radical because the nine months is just a ridiculous situation where you can do an abortion in the ninth month and some of the states like Minnesota and other states have it where you could actually execute the baby after birth.
And all of that stuff is unacceptable. So I'll be voting no for that reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: A lot of what's said there is frankly not true, now for the first time, there was no such thing as the state sanctioned execution of newborns. And according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, citing CDC data, only the one percent of all abortions happen after 21 weeks of pregnancy.
Beyond that, though, just a day after suggesting he would vote, yes on the measure because in his words six weeks is too short. He now says quite clearly, he's voting no, as if it somehow squares that circle he is using logically unconnected and factually non-existent Democratic policies to justify that flip-flop and that decision.
What to make of this is for the voters to decide. What is clear, however, just as a matter of fact, is that Donald Trump has been all over the map on abortion over the years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm very pro-choice. I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject but you still -- I just believe in choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That's Donald Trump in 1999. In 2011 when he was considering a run for the president. He told the Conservative Action Conference, "I am pro-life." By 2016 when he was actually running, he was actually talking about penalties for women who do have abortions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.
HOST: For the women?
TRUMP: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:06]
SCIUTTO: He later backed away from that, but then appointed three justices to the Supreme Court who became part of the six to three majority, which of course overturned Roe v. Wade, which brought us all to this point and left him right smack between a conservative base he cannot abandon and the moderate women voters, he potentially cannot win without. Which could be why, even as he advocates for and works toward sharply socially conservative measures, he tries to sell it as something else, saying as you heard, he's really against a six-week abortion ban, even while pledging his vote to preserve that ban.
Or in the case of overturning Roe, portraying it as broadly popular, even across party lines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They wanted to get rid of Roe v. Wade, and that's Democrats Republicans, and Independents and everybody. Liberals, conservatives, everybody wanted it back in the states. And I did that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Keeping them honest, that's just flat-out false. According to a Pew Research poll, 57 percent of Americans disapproved of the court's decision. And in Pew polling dating back to 2003, anywhere from 60 to 70 percent were broadly opposed to overturning Roe.
So, no returning abortion to the states was neither wanted then, according to the polling nor especially welcomed now, contrary to what the former president says.
And that's not all he is saying. He also spoke to Fox about whether he would veto a national abortion ban if it came to his desk as president.
Just a few days ago, his running mate said, he thought Trump would.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JD VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need to be very clear he would not support it. I mean --
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC HOST: But would he veto it?
VANCE: -- he said that, it's just like -- Yes, if you're not supporting it as a President of the United States, he finds it really have to veto it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That was his running mate on Sunday. Here is the former president himself today saying somehow it'll never even come up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm not going to have to think about it because it's working out so well right now. The states are doing it. It's a states issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: You'll note he didn't say he would veto it. And as you just heard him say, it's working out so well right now. More now on all this from CNN's Steve Contorno, who is at the Trump event here in Washington.
Steve, I wonder how is his campaign attempting to explain his flip- flop just in the last 24 hours on what is a key campaign issue?
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jim, Trump is strained to navigate this issue all throughout this race, except for a time, he wouldn't comment on it at all and then he said that this was a settled issue because it belongs in the states.
He has both tried to take credit for the fall of Roe v. Wade and say that he is not connected to the political fallout. The problem though is what's happened in Florida is his home state and it was eventually going to drag him into the debate.
What we saw for him over the last 24 hours with his comments yesterday saying that -- suggesting that he might support the referendum here, the blowback from it was incredibly significant from the anti-abortion committed.
We saw many of them say that they might not vote for Trump, that they wouldn't knock doors for him, that they might sit this election out. And that is where a lot of this rush for him to clarify his stance is coming from -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Not quite clarifying it. Let's be frank. How is the Harris campaign reacting?
CONTORNO: Well, in the convention, she's been very critical of Donald Trump's stance and his waffling on this issue over the past six months.
In fact, she put out her own statement tonight. I'd like to read you a part of that. She said, "I trust women to make their own healthcare decisions and believe the government should never come between a woman and her doctor. When I'm president and Congress passes a bill to restore reproductive freedom, I will proudly sign it into law. The choice in this election is clear".
And I'll point out that her campaign also started -- it started a bus tour where they're going to be talking about reproductive rights in about 50 stops across the country. And it started in Donald Trump's backyard in Palm Beach, Florida.
SCIUTTO: Steve Contorno there, thanks so much.
Joining us now is 2016 Trump campaign deputy communications director Bryan Lanza also; Rachel Palermo, former deputy communications director for vice president Harris, plus CNN, political commentators, Bakari Sellers and S.E. Cupp. Great to have you all on.
Bryan, I have to ask you. We've heard two different things from the candidate in the last 24 hours. How do you explain the flip-flop?
BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN: Listen, abortion politics is tough and he's clearly trying to navigate and he is finding it to be more challenging than he thought it would be.
In 2016 when he released his federalist list of Supreme Court justices, he really believed and he still believes to this day that returning it to the states was the best option. And that's what he did and he's proud of it that's why he continues to stand by it.
But, I think he and the team, how it developed to what happened when it has actually returned to the states. He stayed out of the conversation for most states and he's only forced into this part of the conversation because of Florida. But I think if it were up to him, he'd want the states to make these individual decisions and he wouldn't want to talk about it again.
[20:10:07]
But abortion politics is -- that's something that never stays in the background. It always creeps itself up. It's not a top five issue yet. But the more and more we talk about it, the more and more people are going to start to pay attention.
SCIUTTO: I mean, the trouble with abortion rights is, you have to have an explicit and quite clear position on it. You can't flip-flop or try to snow people on what the actual answer is.
S.E., are you surprised the former president changed his mind in effect, and is going to vote to keep that six-week ban that just 24 hours ago, he said was too short?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What's really astounding is that Donald Trump has had eight years to figure out an abortion policy, including specifics. And I have written a version of this column. I think for the past eight years, over and over and over again, that Trump simply doesn't know or care what his abortion policy is, the flip-flops and the absolute aversion to laying out specifics what he would want and when and how.
Apparently it's driving pro-life conservatives crazy and I think what it's leading a lot of other women, moderates, and independent women, women in swing states to believe, is that you just can't trust what he's saying. They don't believe him when he says, I'm going to be great for women's reproductive rights or I'm not going to vote for an abortion ban. They don't believe him.
So, there's really no excuse for someone this far into his political career who's already been president of the United States, to not be able to articulate his position on what is definitely a top five issue for a lot of voters.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, Rachel, I'm curious. Bryan says, it's not a top five issue, as he says, it is. What's the campaign's view and how does it plan to respond to this?
RACHEL PALERMO, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: This is a really important issue to the campaign because it's an important issue to voters. People care about this issue. The majority of Americans believe that a woman should be able to make decisions about what to do with her own body.
And that's why the vice president has been such a forceful advocate and voice on this issue ever since Roe v. Wade was overturned two years ago, which builds on it the fact that she's fought for the health, safety and well-being of women throughout her entire career.
And in terms of Florida's ban, in particular six weeks is extreme and the vice president's statement that she released tonight, she noted that six weeks is before most women know that they are pregnant. That means that this is an all-out ban. Its extreme. We've seen how these bans have been impacting women's health all over the country.
We've seen women miscarrying in parking lots and it's really devastating.
And so, the campaign is going to focus on this because the American people care about it.
SCIUTTO: Bakari, it seems clear here that Trump is attempting to muddy the waters here on his position to try to convince conservative voters or pro-life voters that he is with them while leaving some daylight potentially or attempting to convince that pro-choice voters that maybe he could be with them to some degree.
I just wonder, is that a workable political strategy on an issue that is -- but let's be frank, it's not taxes, right? It's not trade policy. This is an issue that women rightfully see has a question of a woman's decision.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So there are a few things. This is not a complicated issue and this is -- this is not a an issue that is muddy at all. In fact there is one more layer to this. This is also not just an issue that women voters care about in this country. This is an issue that not only women but men care about as well as Governor Walz has actually talked about.
Donald Trump has made his position extremely clear. Not only does he want to penalize women for having abortions but yes, he wants to go to extreme measures before women even know if they're pregnant or not, six weeks like Florida.
And so, he can take credit for putting three justices on the United States Supreme Court, which overturned Roe v. Wade. He cheers for that. He says that this is one of the prize achievements he made when he was president of the United States. This is something that he takes pride in.
So now you can't come back and attempt to flip-flop. There are families around the country that simply want the reproductive freedom. They want that justice. And the fact of the matter is quite simple. You cannot trust Donald Trump these choices.
And there's something else that we haven't talked about that I think needs a little conversation. Donald Trump is old. Donald Trump is 78- years-old and so when you see him actually flip-flop or say something yesterday and change today, one of the reasons you can't trust him and this is not ageism by any stretch. But the question is, does he have the capacity to be president of the United States? That answer is no.
He is a vastly diminished person than what he was in 2016. And so, the campaign can try to build this infrastructure around him. But Donald Trump doesn't know what he's saying from one day to another. And women and men alike do not want Donald Trump or Mike Johnson or Chuck Grassley or anybody else making those decisions for what they do with their bodies.
[20:15:14]
That is not a choice for Donald Trump because he's apparently inept and too diminished to make it.
SCIUTTO: Bryan, I want to give you a chance to respond to that because as you know, when Biden was the candidate, you would often hear from Trump supporters and others on his campaign if he wasn't clear on a position or answer to the question that that got back to his capacity. So, how do you answer that? Is this just a question of Trump finding it hard to navigate an issue, or is there a clarity issue?
LANZA: I give credit to Bakari for sticking to this issue. He's trying to make it of an issue. It's clearly not an issue. I mean if you do the comparison between Trump and Biden, Trump wasn't falling up the stairs. He wasn't falling down the stairs. He could find the door. So it's not an issue of diminished capacity by any measurement.
What it is, it's an issue of a very complicated issue with a man who has switched his position when he first ran for president, and he's learning just how complicated it gets the further and further you get involved.
And that's where we are. He's trying to figure out a solution for it. He got backed into a corner. He made a misstatement yesterday that backed him in the corner that you saw his remarks today. I mean, it is a complicated issue for him to deal with and he's probably doing the best he can but as you can see, it doesn't appease everybody.
SCIUTTO: He is running for president though. S.E. Cupp and the nature of running for the most powerful office in the land is taking stances on difficult issues which I should note, the Trump campaign is demanding of Kamala Harris and rightfully so on issues such as fracking, et cetera.
Why can't the Republican candidate for president, who wants to be president again, make a very clear statement on where he stands on this and stick to it.
CUPP: Yes, this is too complicated for him, eight years into his public career, he probably shouldn't be president and I would say -- I would say the same to Kamala Harris. If she can't figure out a way to articulate a border policy. I'd say the same thing.
You've been in public office a long time, get a message together and tell us what you would do. You can be he fair. But it's not asking a lot for a guy who's already been president and wants to be president again, to tell us exactly what he would do.
The crazy thing is there's actual policies. He could go after with Harris and Walz. He's right that in Minnesota, there is no week restrictions on abortion, but of course he goes farther than that cartoonishly farther, to where he's basically lying about the left, which he doesn't have to do.
But he can't just stick to the facts. He has to obfuscate and distract because he doesn't have a policy. He hasn't figured this out. And whether it's because he's old or inept or he just doesn't fundamentally care about this issue, voters deserve to know where he stands.
SCIUTTO: Rachel, there are some watching Kamala Harris' interview last night on CNN, who noticed that the reproductive rights were not as central to her message, at least in that interview as in other public appearances, the convention, et cetera.
I wonder, does this last 24 hours, perhaps change Harris' in the campaign's approach.
PALERMO: I think that reproductive rights is something that the Vice President Harris has focused on before she was running. And now, as she been running and it's something that's very much central to her message.
She frames this as this issue of fundamental freedoms, this ability to have the freedom to choose what to do with your own body.
Last night she answered questions on a range of issues from the economy, to the border, to what her vision is for this country, to that fateful call when President Biden told her that he wasn't running for reelection.
And the American people really got to see a different side of her and they got to see more about her policies and her vision, which was great. But when it comes to abortion rights, the vice president is undeterred and she's going to keep focusing on this because she cares about the issue so fundamentally.
SCIUTTO: Everybody, stay in with me because I want to pick up the conversation shortly.
Right now though, a closer look at JD Vance's evolving position himself on abortion over the years.
CNN's Randi Kaye has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In 2021 when JD Vance was running to become a Republican Senator of Ohio, he defended the Texas abortion law.
When asked during an interview whether abortion law should also include exceptions for rape and incest, Vance said this.
VANCE: Two wrongs don't make a right. It's not whether a woman should be forced to bring a child to term. It's whether a child should be allowed to live even though the circumstances of that child's birth are somehow inconvenient or a problem to the society.
KAYE (voice over): Those comments sparking criticism from supporters of abortion rights.
That same year, Vance compared abortion to slavery.
VANCE: There's something comparable between abortion and slavery in that while the people who obviously suffer the most are those subjected to it. I think it has this morally distorting effect on the entire society.
KAYE (voice over): The following year, in 2022
VANCE: I am pro-life. I've always been pro-life.
[20:20:07]
KAYE (voice over): During a debate in the Ohio Senate race, Vance said this about exceptions.
VANCE: I have always believed in reasonable exceptions.
KAYE (voice over): In that same 2022 debate, Vance also said he was totally fine with establishing some minimum national standard to restrict abortion at a certain number of weeks.
How many? He didn't say.
By January 2022, Vance, still a senate candidate, affirmed his support for a national abortion ban. Listen to what he said on a podcast.
VANCE: I certainly would like abortion to be illegal nationally.
KAYE (voice over): Vance also told the podcasters he was sympathetic to the idea that a national abortion ban was necessary to stop women from traveling across states to obtain an abortion.
Nearly two years later, he backed away from some of his hard-line comments.
VANCE: We have to accept that people do not want blanket abortion bans. They just don't like -- we have to provide exceptions for the life of the mother, for rape and so forth. That is just a basic necessity.
KAYE (voice over): Now, Vance's rhetoric on abortion sounds much more in line with his running mate, Donald Trump, who has calling but for restrictions to be left to the states.
VANCE: What I said during my own campaign is that the gross majority of abortion policy is going to be made at the state level. KAYE (voice over): And earlier this month, Vance told NBC News, he and Trump will not ban abortion nationwide.
WELKER: Can you commit, Senator, sitting right here with me today, that if you and Donald Trump are elected, that you will not impose a federal ban on abortion?
VANCE: I can absolutely commit that.
KAYE (voice over): Vance has still been emphasizing his own personal stance against abortion rights.
VANCE: I am pro-life. I want to save as many babies as possible.
KAYE (voice over): And making it clear that any future policy about reproductive rights is still up for debate.
VANCE: We actually have to have an important conversation in this country about what our abortion policy should be
KAYE (voice over): Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida..
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SCIUTTO: A spokesperson for Vance responded to our story saying in part, "Throughout his campaign for US Senate and during his time in office, Senator Vance has consistently made clear that he supports reasonable exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother".
The Vance campaign says there are no statements in the public record that show or prove he has said otherwise. The statement goes on to say, "Senator Vance has also stated repeatedly that he agrees with president Trump on abortion policy being set at the state level, not the federal level, and like President Trump, he agrees that we need to find common ground on this issue. As a senator, he is not supported any legislation which would impose a federal abortion ban".
We do have much more head.
Next, how JD Vance explains a sexually explicit and sexist social media post about Kamala Harris, which Donald Trump spread online by suggesting it is all part of the former president's fun-loving, joking personality.
Also tonight, the latest on the killing, the sad killing of an NHL star and his brother by a suspected drunk driver.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:26:55]
SCIUTTO: The former president is speaking to a conservative family values convention tonight. He is also been amplifying QAnon falsehoods as well as opposed showing Hillary Clinton and Vice President Harris suggesting the vice president got to the top by performing sex acts, you heard that, right. Today CNN's John Berman asked running mate JD Vance about those comments. Here's what the senator said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: If you look at Donald Trump's full campaign appearances and yes, the social media appearances. What you see is two things of guy with an agenda to lower prices and bring back American prosperity and a political candidate who isn't stodgy, who likes to have some fun and likes to tell some jokes.
I do think that's how you lift people up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Lift people up. So, Bryan, I'll begin with you.
The notion that he's just having some fun here. I mean, as you know, Bryan, this is not the first time. I mean, here you have him suggesting sex acts about the only two women in American history to earn the party's major presidential nomination. But you know that this is part of a pattern.
So, I wonder do you defend that? Is it presidential?
LANZA: No, I don't defend those things, but more importantly, what I tell the president and I tell the campaign is, let's focus on the issue that the American people care about.
Inflation, immigration, the two wars abroad and maybe a third and I think anytime we have to have this discussion about a tweet that has not has nothing to do with those as a distraction and missed opportunity for the president to deliver his message of why Kamala Harris should not be promoted to president.
SCIUTTO: I mean, the trouble I suppose S.E. is that it's not been a distraction over his last, say 10 years in politics, it appears to be central to his message because he repeatedly, for instance, questions the intelligence of Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton and other women.
I mean, he's mimicked disabled people in a campaign appearance, he has criticized a veteran who happened to be captured by the Vietnamese while serving his country in war.
I mean, the thing is it's not something that could be parceled out. It's part of the way he talks about people who challenge him
CUPP: It is, and what JD Vance is trying to do is sort of the -- who would you rather have a beer with thing. And that's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about the difference between a candidate who can laugh at himself, crack a couple of jokes, you want to hang out with and have a beer with someone who's sort of stuffy and serious.
We're talking about a guy as you said, who mocks disabled journalist, who mocks POWs, who mocks women's faces, who mocks wives of candidates running against him.
It's really gross and it's not a missed opportunity to talk about policy. It's quite literally driving suburban women in the swing states that he will need to win away from Donald Trump.
It is repelling the very people he will need to win. I'm not making that up. We have polling to back it up. I don't think he cares or maybe he just doesn't have the self-control to stop going to those places that he finds so appealing.
SCIUTTO: Rachel, some noted vice president in her interview last night with CNN, when asked about another comment a few weeks ago where Donald Trump said that Harris turned Black. You may remember that controversial, until there were other controversial comments to follow.
She deliberately said, you know what, I'm not going to deal with that. I want to talk about the issues, et cetera. I wonder is that a strategic decision that we're likely to see more of that Harris as nominee here will not dive into those -- to reacting to those kinds of comments, but we'll let them stand for themselves?
[20:30:39]
PALERMO: I think that the Vice President -- that Vice President Harris is above this and she wants to focus on policy, she wants to focus on substance. And she and America knows that Donald Trump has made comments like this about any woman who's dared to go toe to toe with him.
And the American people deserve better. And when the Vice President talks about how it's time to turn a new page on the Trump era, this is what she's talking about. People want candidates who are going to talk about policies and visions and put forth their ways that they want to make this country a better place.
SCIUTTO: Bakari, Trump's senior adviser, Jason Miller, he addressed the vulgar social media repost about Harris on CNN yesterday. Let me just play a clip. I want to get your thoughts on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON MILLER, SENIOR ADVISER TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: I saw the social media post, I have not discussed that with the president. I don't know if the president even saw the comment that was on there, or simply the picture. But I would say with regard to Kamala Harris, the attacks that have been levied by Kamala Harris's both the campaign, by Harris allies against President Trump, not just recently, but over the past year and a half, two years, ever since he came down the escalator, quite frankly, in the case of many left of center people, have been quite horrific.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Bakari, have a Democratic former president or presidential nominee taken -- gone to the depths of, for instance, accusing an opponent of using sexual favors to advance their career?
SELLERS: Not at all, and I think Jason knows that that's absurd. The problem we have is that Donald Trump is not listening to the Jason Millers or the Chris LaCivitas or the Susie Wiles. He's definitely not listening to Bryan or people like David Urban, who have good common sense and approach this campaign in a -- and -- although we differ on issues, they approach this campaign on what's best for Americans without going to the depths of hell to do that.
You know, we have a saying here that you never really want to get in the mud with pigs because you both get dirty but the pig likes it, right? But I do think that when you're talking about someone like Donald Trump, the contrast is extremely clear. And it's honest to say that he's been found liable for sexual assault. It's honest to say that he has five children by three baby mamas.
This is the contrast, and you have someone who wants to adorn the label of family values, but is anything but that when you talk about these real issues and you want to look at them objectively. I also think just my perspective and not something that Kamala Harris or the campaign is actually looking at, but, yes, we have to turn the page, but you also have to be very clear and direct and call Donald Trump out for what it is.
When you are going and using racism or misogyny as political currency the way that he does, you have to call that out by name and you have to say, look, I see what Donald Trump is doing by saying I just turned black. I see what Donald Trump is doing by labeling myself and Hillary Clinton.
People who have broken the mold. People who, whether or not you are Republican or Democrat, have to acknowledge that we are at least trying to blaze a new path for women in this country. We see how he wants to pull us down, and say, look, this is -- we will not tolerate that any longer.
This country's better than that. And then if you're on a debate stage, look at Donald Trump in the face and say, our daughters, our families, they're better than you, Donald Trump. That's the message that we have to send. That is the clear contrast. Kamala Harris fundamentally, ethically, morally, is better than Donald Trump.
SCIUTTO: I mean, that's the thing, right, is that the frequency, right, and the consistency gets to the argument that it's not impulse, right, it's a plan. It's a plan to take down the opponents in a way that he -- well, that he thinks is doable, right?
Bryan, I do want to play what the --
LANZA: It works, Jim. I mean, I would --
SCIUTTO: Well --
LANZA: -- say this, you know, look at Marco Rubio, right? You know, he tried to ignore it in 2016. He goes, let me be the bigger person. Let me not comment and then Trump kept whacking. And he kept whacking to the point where Marco and his team felt he looked weak and he had to respond.
I mean, I'm going to be honest with you, we can criticize it. Listen, I've got young kids that I hate explaining these things to, but the reality is it works.
SCIUTTO: But how do you explain it to your kids? I've got kids too. And when I think about someone running for the highest office in the land and speaking about women that way. My kids have a mom, right? They've got a sister. How do you explain that to your kids?
LANZA: You know, Jim, listen, I have a longer explanation. I was a Democrat during the Clinton era.
[20:35:04]
At some point, I'm going to have to explain Bill Clinton's behavior to my daughter and to my son. And I'm going to have to explain Donald Trump's behavior too. I mean, no party is sinless in the behavior of how they've been misogynistic towards women.
I mean, if you're trying to lay that on Republican hands, I was a Democrat during the Clinton era. I remember what we -- what James Carvin when we tried to do to Monica Lewinsky. I remember what we did to Paula Jones. So let's not play the role of saints in this game.
SCIUTTO: But you're supporting someone who's running for president today for the highest office --
LANZA: Yes. I supported Bill Clinton for president, correct.
SCIUTTO: -- today.
LANZA: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Everyone, thanks so much.
More coming up this hour. How will Special Counsel Jack Smith respond to the Supreme Court's wide ranging presidential immunity decision in the January 6th case? That answer could come at any moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Sometime tonight we are expecting a new filing from Special Counsel Jack Smith's office detailing how he plans to move forward with Trump's January 6th case. This would follow the Supreme Court's landmark decision on presidential immunity almost two months ago.
[20:40:04]
That 6-3 ruling gave the former president absolute immunity for his core duties as president, partial immunity for other duties. It also comes after Smith filed a superseding indictment in the case against Trump earlier this week.
CNN's Evan Perez joins me now. So Evan, what's expected in this latest filing? What is he going to deal with specifically here? EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, this is actually an unusual filing in the sense that the judge has asked the two sides to make a joint filing. They've not really had to do that on a substantive issue, which is how to move forward with this case.
Now, as you mentioned, the special counsel has filed a new indictment against the former president. And what they tried to do in that new indictment is they tried to remove some of the evidence because another important part of that Supreme Court ruling was to say that there were certain -- there was certain evidence that was -- that the special counsel has that cannot be used because it is, from his close aides, for instance, or has to do with the Justice Department.
Things that were official acts, right, core to the power of the presidency. And so what we're expecting to see from this filing is exactly what that means as far as going forward with this case. Are we going to see any major hearings, public hearings in court in the next 60 days before this election?
Now, of course, the special counsel, the Justice Department tries to do a quiet period before the election, Jim. And so we're not expecting to see the special counsel give any specifics. They're going to try to leave it up to the judge, Judge Tanya Chutkan, who's having a hearing next Thursday. That's going to be really, I think, a -- will determine a lot about what we are going to see between now and election day.
SCIUTTO: Yes. It's amazing how long it's taken to get these questions answered. All right, there are also new moves from Trump's lawyers regarding his New York --
PEREZ: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- hush money case. Tell us where that stands.
PEREZ: Well, you know, he -- the former president and his legal team are trying to turn things on their heads, right? So what they're asking for is for judge -- the judge in New York to essentially pause everything while they try to move that case to federal court.
The goal there, of course, is if he moves it to federal court, it most likely dies, right? And what they're citing is that Jack Smith's new indictment. They're saying that because that indictment is clearly trying to take into account the official acts, that the Supreme Court says the former president can't be charged with, it's a signal that some of the things -- some of the evidence that was used in the New York case --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
PEREZ: -- in the hush money case, cannot be used and therefore should be removed from that entirely. And so, the question now is, does Judge Merchan pause this case? Does he believe the fact that Donald Trump is trying to move this case to federal court? Does that mean he can't be sentenced? Does that mean that everything has to go to a -- come to a halt? It's not clear whether this will succeed, but certainly, the former president is doing everything he can to make sure that, a, this case doesn't move forward. Also that it doesn't -- he doesn't get sentenced in the next couple of weeks.
SCIUTTO: Yes, and they're not alone in seeing some signals, perhaps, from the Chief Justice --
PEREZ: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- to those on the New York case, those handling the New York case.
Evan Perez, thanks so much.
Perspective now from CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig. So, Elie, tell us the options that Judge Chutkan has going forward. Options and what do you expect her to do?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jim, at some point in the next three plus hours before midnight tonight, the parties have to first tell Judge Chutkan, here's how we would like to proceed. And the job that Judge Chutkan has to do is go through the new indictment, the slimmed down indictment that we saw earlier this week from Jack Smith, and decide which parts of that are official acts, therefore immune, therefore out of the case, and which parts are unofficial acts and therefore can stay in the case.
And broadly speaking, Jim, there are two options here, two types of options. One, the judge could say, we'll do it on the papers, meaning both parties, you give me detailed briefs. You tell me what you think the evidence is and why you think it should be in or out. And I'll decide based on the paper submissions.
The other more dynamic option that Evan just alluded to is the judge could say, we need to have a hearing. I need to hear from some live witnesses, bring them in here. I'll assess the testimony that way. So I think that's the big turning point we're looking at now.
SCIUTTO: So everyone, and I know you believe this strongly too, no chance trial will commence before the election. What about evidentiary hearings --
HONIG: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- that could put this evidence before, say, a new grand jury, and then, therefore, the public eyes as well, potentially?
HONIG: Yes, 0 percent chance there is a trial before the election. It's a physical time and space impossibility at this point. But if the judge does choose that sort of second route that I laid out before, we'll have an evidentiary hearing. That could happen quite quickly. That could happen in the upcoming weeks.
Now, there has been some reporting out there that Jack Smith is not leaning that way, but we don't know. We don't really know what Jack Smith is doing. We will have a much better sense, though, when this filing drops at some point tonight.
[20:45:03]
SCIUTTO: OK. So, tell us about Trump's strategy to try to tie the New York case to the superseding indictment from Jack Smith. And do you, like others see some signaling from Robert's decision and the immunity case that would rule out some or a lot of the evidence from the New York case?
HONIG: Yes. So it's all interconnected here. So now we're jumping from the D.C. January 6th case over --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HONIG: -- to the Manhattan hush money case. And what Donald Trump is trying to do is try desperately to not get sentenced on that case, at least not before the election. Now, we are set for a sentencing in that hush money case on September 18th, just a couple of weeks from now. But that date is starting to come into question because Trump is trying to attack that in two ways.
First of all, he said to the trial judge in New York, I'm immune here based on the new ruling that you mentioned from Chief Justice Roberts and others. Some of the evidence against me should have been out of the case.
SCIUTTO: Right.
HONIG: Therefore I get a new trial. Therefore, I want to appeal that before sentencing, which would mean you can't sentence him anywhere near the election. The other thing that Trump is trying, and this is brand new, is he's trying to get the case kicked over to federal court because he's saying, again, based on the Supreme Court argument, I have a right to raise a federal defense.
So he's really sort of throwing two different efforts out there. I guess you could call them Hail Marys, but they have slightly better chances than a Hail Mary. He's trying two different routes. He's fighting like mad to avoid getting sentenced before the election.
SCIUTTO: Yes, Hail Marys and running out the clock, right?
HONIG: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Some combination of that.
Elie Honig, thanks so much.
HONIG: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, coming up, just such a sad story. The sports world grieving tonight. An all-star NHL player and his brother killed together just hours before their sister's wedding. The heartbreaking details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:50:53]
SCIUTTO: Just a tragic loss for a family and for sports fans everywhere. NHL star Johnny Gaudreau and his younger brother Matty were killed by a suspected drunk driver last night, the night before their sister's wedding. Gaudreau was set to enter his third season with the Columbus Blue Jackets after playing his first eight full seasons with the Calgary Flames.
And while both brothers were of course known for their love of hockey, they were also known as loving husbands, fathers, and brothers. CNN's Polo Sandoval has the story of the tragic crash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The brothers, Johnny and Matthew Gaudreau, were riding bikes in southern New Jersey together. Hours later, they were set to be groomsmen in their sister's wedding. State police confirmed they were hit by an SUV. The driver, 43-year-old Sean Higgins. He's now charged with two counts of second degree vehicular homicide.
Police records say he admitted to drinking five to six beers before the accident and that he failed a field sobriety test. Higgins made an initial court appearance Friday where a judge ordered he'd be held until his next hearing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll see you back in court on Thursday.
SEAN HIGGINS, DRIVER WHO IS CHARGED IN THE DEATHS OF GAUDREAU: So I'm here until Thursday?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Gaudreau or in the nickname Johnny Hockey was drafted by the Calgary Flames in 2011.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Johnny Gaudreau.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Signed with the Columbus Blue Jackets in 2022, where he tallied a dozen goals and nearly 50 assists last season alone. Gaudreau was a seven time NHL All Star. "Johnny played the game with great joy," reads a statement from his team. "The impact he had on our organization and our sport was profound, but pales in comparison to the indelible impression he made on everyone who knew him."
But despite his succession in the rink, Johnny Gaudreau's true passion appeared to be off the ice, as a loving husband and proud father of two babies, a boy and a girl, both under two years old. The youngest born this year and carries dad's name. His brother Matthew also leaves behind a wife. A spokesperson confirms Friday night that she's pregnant.
Matty, as he was known, followed in his brother's footsteps. Both boys played side by side since their Boston college days. Coaches there described the brothers as a real force on the ice.
JERRY YORK, FORMER HEAD COACH, BOSTON COLLEGE MEN'S HOCKEY: If you ask us the name of our favorite players, you know, they've got to be, both boys are going to be among them.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): An uncle of the Gaudreau brothers released a statement saying, "Last night, we lost two husbands, two fathers, two sons, but truly, two amazing humans."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Good Lord, just such a sad story. Polo Sandoval joins me now. I wonder how have fans, the hockey community, how have they been reacting to this.
SANDOVAL (on-camera): Yes, let's start with the fans, Jim. I've seen photos on social media of people actually propping their hockey sticks on their front porches in a silent tribute. And then you look at a video that was recently published also by the Calgary Flames, who again, Johnny used to play with before going to Ohio.
And you've seen a steady stream of people going to the dorm -- to the dome where he played, leaving flowers, leaving their hockey sticks as well. Fans of all ages, and then finally also tributes from every corner of the sports world.
NBA legend LeBron James wrote tonight on social media, Jim, "May Johnny and Matthew fly high." So no doubt, there is support all across the board, and this is a family that certainly will need it. Yesterday, they were preparing for a wedding, Jim, and tonight they are preparing to say goodbye to their two sons. It is just beyond awful.
SCIUTTO: Yes, good -- well, our heart goes out to his family and his friends.
Polo Sandoval, thanks so much. And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:58:38]
SCIUTTO: If there's one criticism of both major party candidates for president, it's that neither is providing much detail behind their policies. That's why "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" is airing new back to back episodes Labor Day night. Each is a deep dive into the policy prescriptions of Vice President Harris and former President Trump.
A wide variety of topics are covered, including an important one we covered at the top of the broadcast tonight, abortion. Here's a clip on Trump's changing views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very pro-choice. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a businessman from New York, which is a pretty progressive city. He has always been more conservative than a lot of the people that he socialized with, but abortion was not one of those issues.
One of the first things he did in 2011, when he was thinking about running for president that cycle, and he went to go speak to CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference --
TRUMP: I'm pro-life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he ran in 2016, he understood that overturning Roe v. Wade was a core conservative priority. So he agreed to put a list of judges out before the election, who were conservative.
TRUMP: I am going to give a list of either five or 10 judges that I will pick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To show, you may not trust me on this issue, but here's what I would do if I was president.
TRUMP: I will guarantee that those are going to be the first judges that I put up for nomination if I win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That tells me that, yes, I can trust you with my vote because on the issues that matter most to me, I can tell that these people are going to hopefully rule as we would want them to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Again, both hour long episodes of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" air Monday on Labor Day, starting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time.
And the news continues. The Source starts now.
