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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Lashes Out At Women Who Accused Him Of Assault After Hearing To Appeal Verdict In E. Jean Carroll Case; Judge Delays Trump's Sentencing Until After The Election; Can Harris Convince Voters In Must-Win Pennsylvania She Supports Fracking; All Eyes On Battleground Pennsylvania With Presidential Debate Just Days Away; The Path To 270 Electoral Votes For Each Candidate; Remembering Shooting Victim Cristina Irimie; Families Of Hostages Held In Gaza Continue To Speak Out For Their Release. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired September 06, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JARROD SCHAEFFER, COUNSEL FOR LINDA SUN: We are looking for exercising her right to a speedy trial and addressing these accusations in the form where it's most appropriate, which is a court of law (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: US prosecutors say cases like this reveal just how far China will go, Erin, to infiltrate and influence the US government.
Suitcases full of cash literally is the diplomatic policy if they can't get good press coverage any other way, to get human rights taken out of a speech, just millions of dollars to buy a new mansion.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: It's absolutely incredible. It is the stuff of a thriller.
Will, thank you very much.
Will, in Taiwan tonight and thanks so much to all of you for joining us.
AC360 starts now.
[20:00:42]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Tonight on 360, with just four days until the debate, the former president spends the better part of a campaign day in court or in front of the cameras lashing out at his female accusers, including the woman who took him to court and won.
Also tonight, Vice President Harris, the new support she's getting from another big name Republican, but also the issue that could cause her trouble with voters in Pennsylvania.
And later, as the alleged Georgia school shooter's father has his first day in court, everything we're learning about the case and the two students and two teachers whose lives were taken. Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight with the former president campaign politics, his legal troubles and lies.
He finished his day in Charlotte, North Carolina where the Fraternal Order of Police endorsed him and he had this to say about a violent attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know that Nancy Pelosi has a big wall wrapped around her house. Of course, it didn't help too much with the problem she had, did it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's the former president speaking to members of law enforcement, making light of the first time I should point out of the violent attack against Paul Pelosi.
A home invader beat Mr. Pelosi with a sledgehammer and fractured his skull. The man admitted that he was planning to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and "break her kneecaps" and "if she did not confess" to whatever he wanted to hear.
Now, that's what the former president was talking about to police, the near killing of a political rival's husband.
Donald Trump came close to being shot in the head and had a near-death experience and got a second lease on life and this is what he's doing with it.
Earlier today, he was in New York in federal court appealing his sexual abuse and defamation judgment. And afterwards, he you talked about it. Take a look. His lawyers were behind him as he talked about E. Jean Carroll, whom a jury determined he sexually abused and
defamed.
He said and, "I never met the woman other than this picture which could have been AI generated. I don't know, show up out of nowhere, but its fine, nice picture."
Now keeping him honest, the photo that he was talking about, this photo is real and the president knows it's real because he discussed in detail under oath during a 2022 deposition, mistaking Carroll for his wife at the time, Marla Maples.
Now, in addition to Carroll, he also lashed out at several other accusers, including Jessica Leeds, who says Trump groped her on a flight 1970s. "It couldn't have happened, it didn't happen and she would not have been the chosen one. She would not have been the chosen one," he said.
Remarks like that have earned this assessment today from former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ CHENEY, FORMER US REPRESENTATIVE:: Dick Cheney will be voting for Kamala Harris.
You know, my dad believes and he said publicly that there's never been an individual in our country who is as grave a threat to our democracy as Donald Trump is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Liz Cheney today. Yesterday, she announced she will be voting for Vice President Harris.
Today, she said that her dad, former Vice President Dick Cheney, will be doing the same and we'll have more on that shortly.
There was one other thing that Donald Trump said today that I want to point out because it kind of involves me and he seemed to imply something that is unfounded.
He was talking as he has before about an interview that E. Jean Carroll did with me back on June 24, 2019.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Then there was an Anderson Cooper interview where she said essentially, no, he didn't rape me.
She was selling her book. She wrote a book. The book would have been a total failure, probably was anywhere, they'll probably sell more recently.
Again, this is a woman that wasn't doing well until she came out with this stuff about me and that's happened to others too by the way. She's not the only one, but the Anderson Cooper tape and the Anderson Cooper tape is an interview of her and Cooper says something to the effect, did he rape you? Did he rape you? He was so happy. Oh, did he rape you?
And she gave a very good answer for me, but a bad answer for CNN for Anderson and he said, we're going to commercial break right now.
Then she came back from commercial break and she was much more hostile. But this man wouldn't let us use the tape or the proper questions having to do with the tape, wouldn't let us. The judge, Judge Kaplan wouldn't let it be used.
[20:05:02]
We wanted to get the outtakes. In other words, what did Anderson Cooper talk to her about during that intermission for a commercial that he called for immediately. Why did you say this? I mean, some of you have seen it, some of you haven't.
We're going to commercial break right now, and so what happened is, we weren't able to use it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Okay. So, this is not the first time that Trump has seemed to suggest some nefarious plot by me to manipulate E. Jean Carroll into saying something. He actually brought this up in a deposition for trial.
Now, I normally don't respond to when Trump says something about me. I mean, what is the point? He recently referred to me using a female first name, which I guess is the third-grade gay taunt. I think he called me Allison or Ashley Cooper. I don't really recall.
It's not worth replying to, but this time it's kind of different because it's just kind of just demonstrably false. First, I just want to show you what it is he's rambling about.
This was part of my interview with E. Jean Carroll that took place on my show on CNN in two blocks, two segments, separated by a commercial break.
Now this is what you would have seen if that night you were watching at home or wherever and we went to commercial and then came back from commercial.
We're not going to actually play the entire commercial break. You would have been watching, so take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
E. JEAN CARROLL, AUTHOR: I was not thrown on the ground and ravished, which the word rape carries so many sexual connotation. This was not sexual, it just -- it hurt. It just it just --
COOPER: Well, I think most people think of rape as -- I mean, it is a violent assault it is not a --
CARROLL: I think most people say that rape as being sexy --
COOPER: Let's take a short break --
CARROLL: -- you think of the fantasies.
COOPER: We're just going to take a short quick break, if you can stick around, we'll talk more in the other side.
CARROLL: You're fascinating to talk to.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: More now on my conversation with E. Jean Carroll and the president's latest denial of her sexual violence allegations against him.
He said, "She's not my type". He's also said previously he did not know her, had never met her, even though they had in fact met. She's the one on the left along with her husband, a local news anchor at the time, and the president's wife at the time, Ivana. The president has also said flat out that she is lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Okay, so that commercial break, which we only just played a snippet of the commercial, ran four minutes long. So, the former president, seems to be suggesting that something we discussed or that I discussed with E. Jean Carroll during a four-minute long commercial break that you would have been watching at home made Miss Carroll changed her tone toward him.
Not sure her tone actually changed after the -- in the second block of the interview. But that's beside the point.
The problem with this conspiracy theory is that this interview was actually pre-recorded and we had to pre-record a toss to a commercial break and then welcome viewers back after commercial break. So that the entire to parts of the interview would fit into my show that night.
So when you do that, when you interview someone for however many minutes and then you toss to a break that will later be inserted into the broadcast. You don't sit there for the entire four minutes of the commercial break with the guest just waiting to then come back to the show.
Because its pre-recorded, you don't have to sit there during a commercial break. You just take a few seconds, you make sure that control room is still recording. You welcome viewers back as if you've just come out of a commercial break and you continue with the interview.
And that's exactly what I do with E. Jean Carroll. And I know this because we have the tape so while Trump is currently suggesting, I sat through a commercial break on live TV with E. Jean Carroll telling her to be angry or whatever, we actually just paused in a pre-recorded interview for a few seconds.
And if you don't believe me, here's the raw, unedited video of what was actually being recorded. And you will hear exactly what I said in the few seconds it took me to resume the interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We've got to take a short quick break, if you can stick around and we'll talk more on the other side.
CARROLL: You're fascinating to talk to.
COOPER: All right, so we're good, we're coming back?
CREW: Yes. Right back up, stand by.
COOPER: Okay. So, before the break, you said, you don't use the word rape. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, that was the entire break. So when Donald Trump is saying it was a four-minute break that I'm talking to E. Jean Carroll, you just saw the break and that weird look I have is how I talk to my control room, when I'm saying. okay, we good? We coming back? Okay?
I'm talking to a producer in the control room who is talking to me in my earpiece right here, making sure that were good on time. We're still recording and I can immediately resume the interview.
That's what happened in this break in the interview that Trump was once again talking about today.
Joining us now former Trump campaign adviser David Urban, POLITICO's Meridith McGraw, former Democratic National Committee communications director Mo Elleithee and former federal prosecutor, Jeffrey Toobin.
[20:10:07]
So Meredith, Trump has been consistently criticized by people in his own party for not staying on message. Just today alone, he's lashed out at several of his accusers, made fun of the brutal attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband and went after Vice President Harris during remarks in North Carolina, which I just want to play right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kamala Harris destroyed San Francisco, she destroyed California. Now, she is destroying America. She will destroy this country. She will destroy this country.
And now that people are seeing what's going on and nobody knew who the hell she was, in all fairness, she was vice president that nobody knew. She shouldn't have been vice president. And if -- you know, they call a threat to democracy -- she's a threat to democracy -- the way they call me threat.
I take a bullet in the head and I'm a threat. No, no. She's at threat to democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, what do you think he's trying to accomplish here?
MERIDITH MCGRAW, POLITICO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, again and again, we hear from Trump's advisers, from allies who say that Trump needs to be sticking to the message, he needs to be talking more about policy.
And they have events where he's clearly set up to do just that, whether it is talking about inflation or whether its talking to the police about crime and yet he goes off on these tangents.
And today, we clearly saw Donald Trump agitated when he called this press conference to talk about the appeals case. And Donald Trump is down in the polls with women and going on national television to talk about these accusations that have been made by women against him as sexual assaults or harassment at a time when he is down in the polls. I just don't see how that is politically helpful to him.
COOPER: Mo, I mean, just a day after the assassination attempt against him, Trump posted on Truth Social saying it is more important than ever that we stand united and show our true character as Americans.
A reminder that Trump suggested the comments calling him a threat to democracy is what led to the assassination attempt. Yet here he is today calling Harris a threat to democracy. I mean do you think, is this planned out? Do you think this is just all off the cuff?
MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Far be it for me to try to crawl inside Donald Trump's head and make sense of some of the things he says and does, but he stood up there today at a press conference,, pardon me.
A press conference usually means he's going to take questions. He didn't take any questions. So he stood up there today at this event, which was essentially a nearly hour long festivus screed airing of grievances just as voters are getting ready to cast the first ballots of this election, early voting, mail-in ballots.
And what they heard from the former president today was him talking about whether or not he -- litigating the definition of rape versus assault. You heard him today talk about whether certain women were hot enough for him to assault.
This -- at this point in the campaign, a campaign is supposed to either persuade voters or mobilize your base. I don't see how what he did today helped with either case and just made that small sliver of undecided voters out there remember why they were so uncomfortable with him.
COOPER: Yes. I just want to play what he actually said about Jessica Leeds not being the chosen one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Frankly, I know you're going to say it's a terrible thing to say, but it couldn't have happened. It didn't happen and she would not have been the chosen one. She would not have been the chosen one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So David, I know you, I mean, you and I have talked about this before. You are often telling the former president to focus on policy and record and stuff and was today a good day?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, Anderson, the president is best when he is talking about is accomplishments, he's best talking about the record of the, you know, his past four years in office and he's worse what he's talking about, personal grievances.
Today, he was very upset. We saw that standing in Trump Tower during the press conference. He was venting, leaving off steam and it's not helpful.
Like Mo said at this point in the campaign, you want to be reminding folks why to vote for you, right. All the good things that the Trump administration had accomplished and contrast those with the four years of the Biden-Harris administration.
If Donald Trump keeps -- if he talks about those things and focuses on those things, the ABC poll just showed -- it was out recently, it was longitudinal prior to the DNC and after the DNC convention that Donald Trump leads in polls by about 10 points, about 10 points nationwide on the economy, on immigration, on inflation, on crime, on the things that people care about.
He needs to remind people, remind voters, early voters, late voters, all voters that he's the person that can deliver on the things that are most important to them. And if he's not doing that, then he's not winning.
[20:15:16]
COOPER: Jeff, let's talk about what happened in the hush-money case today. Judge Merchan delayed the sentencing until after the election. The judge wrote: "The imposition of sentence will be adjourned to avoid any appearance whoever unwarranted that the proceeding has been affected by or seeks to affect the approaching presidential election which the defendant is a candidate."
Is this significant in terms of the case itself?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think it is a little significant in the sense that, you know, he is not yet sentenced and this case isn't over plus Merchan still has to decide how the Supreme Court's decision in the immunity case that they decided at the end of the last term affects this case.
And there is still the possibility that he might throw out the verdict in the hush-money case and order a new trial, because evidence was admitted, it was un-proper under the new standard.
But Anderson, I just think it is worth pausing to recognize how Donald Trump has successfully neutralized all four criminal cases against him. This case will not be sentenced after the trial. The Florida case has been thrown out entirely, though that's on appeal. The Georgia case is a wall-to-wall disaster for the prosecution, and shows no sign of going to trial. The January 6th case is now bogged down in pretrial proceedings that may not lead to a trial even in 2025.
So, Donald Trump had a very good day today legally, as far as Judge Merchan is concerned and he has had a lot of good news on these four indictments, none of which are going to go to trial or even be close to resolve before the election.
COOPER: Jeff Toobin,, thank you. Meridith McGraw and Mo Elleithee as well.
David Urban, stay with us. We're going to talk about Pennsylvania and fracking in a moment.
More in the election, including an in-depth report on how that issue of fracking may affect Vice President Harris' chances and must win in Pennsylvania.
Plus, with the debate just four days away, we will go to our John King at the magic wall for the latest in the state of play in those battleground states.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:24]
COOPER: Pennsylvania's position is a must win for both presidential candidates and CNN's latest poll this week showing a dead heat there. It helps explain why Vice President Harris position on the issue of fracking has become so consequential.
Former President Trump has repeatedly said she will ban it. This is what she said in an exclusive interview last week with our Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you still want to ban fracking?
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, and I made that clear on the debate stage in 2020 that I would not ban fracking. As vice president, I did not ban fracking, as president I will not ban fracking
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Fracking is a sensitive issue, obviously in Pennsylvania, it's a method of extracting oil and gas that critics say harms the environment. However, it also involves billions in revenue and tens of thousands of jobs.
Back in 2019 when she first ran for president, Harris vocally opposed it during a CNN climate crisis town hall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: There's no question. I'm in favor of banning fracking, so yes, and starting with what we can do on day one around public lands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: She moved away from that stance when she soon became Biden's running mate. In fact, both the president and Pennsylvania Democratic Senator John Fetterman, had to change positions after previously opposing fracking as well.
Both won in Pennsylvania. Question is, can Vice President Harris?
Bill Weir went there to talk to voters. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the southwest corner of Pennsylvania, thousands of fracking wells snake into the hillsides, squirting water and chemicals down, catching the methane gas coming up, and making record profits for the corporations that own them.
But while fracking provides only a fraction of the state's six million jobs, here in Appalachia, it is easy to find folks devoted to fossil fuels and Donald Trump.
WEIR (on camera): When Kamala Harris says she has no intention of banning fracking, what do you make of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe her. I don't believe her because you can't change your mind just because you want to be the president.
WILLIAM H. KLEIN, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: Fracking is an issue, whether it's Pennsylvania or any place else in the country. I believe it's good not only for the economy. I believe it's good for us to get money. Money is part of fracking.
WEIR (on camera): At the same time, there are millions of Pennsylvanians opposed to fracking and not just big city voters who know this invisible gas helps overheat the planet, but families here in Appalachia forced to live with fracking literally in their backyard and the host of health concerns that comes with that.
HEAVEN SENSKIKURSH, LOCAL RESIDENT: Young families don't want to stay here. They're frightened about the health of their children and their futures that they're providing for their families.
WEIR (voice over): Heaven Senskikursh (ph) grew up here. And points to a University of Pittsburgh study which found that children living within a mile of a fracking site at higher risk of lymphoma.
According to state records, fracking fluid has fouled or poisoned over 400 private wells and water supplies and when it began spraying like this outside Jody Borello's (ph) house three times a day for years, her children broke out and rashes and she joined the nonprofit, Center for Coal Field Justice.
JODY BORELLO, LOCAL RESIDENT: If you would've asked me 15 years ago about the environment or my opinion on the environment I probably would not have had one, but I was unfortunately given a gas well, it was placed about 1,200 feet from my home.
WEIR (voice over):They explain that, talk about a fracking ban only helps the gas industry, but what they really want is sensible regulation and enforcement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neither candidate is coming here and talking to people about, does this hurt you? Are you okay? How are your kids doing?
WEIR (on camera): Is there any chance that you'll be able to get your natural water back?
LIZ PEBBLY, LOCAL RESIDENT: Never.
WEIR (on camera): Never.
[20:25:10]
WEIR (voice over): Liz Pebbly (ph), says that after her well was fouled by the fracking pad next door, the company bought her a water tank and offered to install a filter but with a catch.
WEIR (on camera): And I understand that if you were to accept their offer to put in a water filter, you would have had to sign away all your rights?
PEBBLY: Correct.
WEIR (on camera): To talk about this --
PEBBLY: We talked about it, health, any health problems could arise in the future, they wouldn't be responsible.
WEIR (voice over): Her neighbor, Tammie Yoder (ph), shares her frustration and lends support.
WEIR (on camera): Did you think at the beginning when they came that the community would get richer as a result?
TAMMIE YODER, LOCAL RESIDENT: We're just such a small community. It's like -- we feel like we don't matter.
WEIR (on camera): Yes. That's got to be frustrating?
YODER: It is. And we do matter, we're people, we matter.
WEIR (on camera): Will you vote on the presidential elections?
YODER: Yes.
PEBBLY: Yes.
WEIR (on camera): Can I ask who you'll vote for?
YODER: Harris.
PEBBLY: Kamala Harris.
WEIR (on camera): Were you Democrats before or -- life long? Yes.
YODER: Yes.
YODER: I'm a Republican.
WEIR (on camera): You're Republican and you're going the other way?
YODER: Yes. WEIR (on camera): Why?
YODER: Because she behaves more like a human.
WEIR (on camera): Aside from the fracking issue?
YODER: Yes.
PEBBLY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR (on camera): Hillary Clinton wrote that her biggest regret of the 2016 campaign was promising to put coal mines and miners out of business.
Well, Kamala Harris is actually in Pittsburgh preparing for the debate this weekend, Anderson, she's supposed to actually visit the surrounding communities.
So, we'll see if she can thread the needle with empathy, maybe a promise of more regulation for those folks who are consider fracker's bad, neighbors here, but of course they're running against -- she is running against a man who's promising fossil fuel whatever they want.
COOPER: Bill Weir, thanks very much.
Back with us, David Urban also joining us, our chief national correspondent, John King and CNN host, Michael Smerconish.
David, I think you were just in Pennsylvania with the foreign president last week meeting with oil and gas workers. What did they tell you?
URBAN: Yes, Anderson not surprisingly, I asked them and their colleagues are about 140 folks up on the stage. If they believed that Kamala Harris had changed her position on fracking and not one of them felt that way.
And they weren't even involved directly in the extraction of gas. These folks were involved in constructing steel buildings that go around the wellheads in support of the oil and gas industry.
Anderson, the oil and gas industry in Pennsylvania provides not only jobs, but it provides hope. There are no steel mills coming. Boeing is not relocating a plant there.
When oil and gas is go in big, it is good times across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Those communities flourish. People have jobs and in a place where jobs and hope is scarce, you know, taking that away from folks is really devastating.
COOPER: Michael, what do you think is the biggest issue for Pennsylvanian voters? I mean, where does fracking lie in that?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, "SMERCONISH": I think that it receives outsized detention I think that it's a significant issue, but I think that there's a perception particularly from a national perspective looking into Pennsylvania, that it's a referendum on a particular candidacy, that it's a be-all and it's an end-all and I don't agree with that.
I think that the problem for Vice President Kamala Harris is her change of position, not necessarily where she ended up. Because it just furthers this narrative of political expediency.
There's an AXIOS report today about her candidacy not receiving scrutiny and it identifies nine different issues where she's either changed her position or has an unknown position to the extent that her fracking perspective furthers that perception, it is problematic.
But let me just remind my good friend, David Urban, I'm in those Philly burbs and there's nobody fracking here. So the attention always goes to those who are dependent upon the fracking industry, but where the race matters most,, people or more concerned about the environment.
COOPER: John, what do the numbers show?
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, let me try to split the difference between my two esteemed colleagues here. Hold on one second, David.
I just want to split the difference to my two esteemed colleagues. Here's the map of Pennsylvania. Let me bring up this map.
The darker the shading, you see on the map here are the counties where there are more fracking, more oil and gas extraction jobs.
So let me just draw a line here. You see the deeper shading up here across the state, I'm going to come down and draw it's not perfectly, but you see the line right there.
Now, this is where you have those oil and fracking jobs. Around 30,000 jobs, maybe closer to 20,000 jobs depending on, as David noted, there's some drills there are support jobs around it. It's not a ton of jobs mathematically, but there's where they are.
Now, let's come out and let's come back to the map of the 2020 election.
That's mostly Trump country. That's mostly Trump country, so, why as Michael said would the vice president take the risk of changing her position and being called a flip-flopper? Well, remember, she did it in 2020 to be on the ticket with Joe Biden.
So yes, it's about maybe let's say in a place like here, Washington County, this is where Bill Weir was in the south part of state. Trump wins with 61 percent over Joe Biden.
In Pennsylvania when it's so close, if you can change the margins, if you get to 38 percent, 39 percent, you're helping yourself a little bit, but I would argue it's about more than that. It's about trying to show respect which Hillary Clinton did not for people who worked with their hands, not just in the oil and gas industry.
[20:30:25]
Let me show you this. I want to take the lines away so it's not so confusing. This is the win margin in Pennsylvania in 2020. See the lighter shading here? Michael just mentioned the suburbs, he knows them as well if not better than I do. This is Bucks County, the more blue-collar Philadelphia suburb. The more blue-collar of the collar counties.
Joe Biden won that by the least. He went all those suburban counties, but he won that by the least. Then you move up here in North Hampton County. It was a tie. What do you find in these places? Look over here at Lehigh County where Allentown is. A margin but not as big as in the Philadelphia suburbs. Same in Monroe. And over here, I just want to get to Lackawanna. That's Scranton. That's where Joe Biden was born.
He wins. You say that's a healthy margin, but it's not as big. Look how deep the blue is down in Philadelphia and the more affluent suburbs. What are you saying when you say I want to pose (INAUDIBLE)? I get Michael. She's open to the charge on flip-flop. But what she's trying to do is not repeat Hillary Clinton's mistake and tell these people as well, you work with your hands, I respect what you do.
COOPER: David, you wanted to say something?
URBAN: Yes. Anderson, I was going to say to, Michael, listen, it's not the be all, end all, but the difference is elections are about addition, one plus one plus one. And these margins in these counties, as John pointed out in Washington County, was 60 percent I think, John, is what you pointed out? But, you know, if Trump, if Trump gets 70 percent, you know, 75 percent in these counties, that's an extra few hundred votes.
And in 60 counties, there are 40 counties with fracking, and if you look at the other 60 counties up that are read, a couple of hundred votes, that's the difference in this race. I agree that the Philly and the burbs, you know, he can't lose that by too much, and it's obviously good for Kamala. You know, east of there, there's a road that differentiates Philadelphia from the rest of the state called City Line Avenue.
If you go west to City Line Avenue fracking doesn't really -- fracking matters. Eastern of City Line is Philly. It doesn't matter. So she's got to thread the needle, but, you know, it's going to be very difficult for her, I think.
COOPER: Michael, how was -- I mean, Fetterman and, you know, able -- I mean, I get they, and Biden both reversed their positions so that didn't seem, I mean, that obviously didn't stop them from winning.
SMERCONISH: Right. This is the playbook and it's not only Fetterman and it's not only Biden, but I think if you take a look at Governor Josh Shapiro, and compare his record as attorney general, I think there was also a pivot on his part. So Pennsylvanians have been receptive to exactly what Vice President Kamala Harris is doing. If she were antagonistic toward the industry, it would be a problem for her. She has problems in Pennsylvania. I just don't think this one is at the top of the list.
COOPER: Michael Smerconish, David Urban, thanks very much.
Next, we're going to have more from John King at the magic wall for a wider pre-debate look at where the race for 270 electoral votes actually stands right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:37:04]
COOPER: So just four days from the debate and a good time to take a look at where each of the candidates stands ahead of the big night. John King is back at the magic wall.
So what are the candidates' paths to 270 right now?
KING: Anderson, the stakes heading into this debate are just so enormous because the race is just so close. Look, we had six battleground state polls out yesterday. This is our map right now to 270. The yellow states are the toss-up states. There are seven of them plus the second congressional district in Nebraska.
Where are our polling tell us? Harris leads outside the margin in Michigan, outside the margin in Wisconsin. Doesn't mean she's going to win them. They're still competitive, but let's give them to her for now right there. Trump led outside the margin in Arizona. Again, doesn't mean he's going to win it, but let's give him that. That gets you to 252 to 230. I'm going to lean North Carolina red. Democrats are getting mad at me right now because there is some polling showing Harris maybe slightly ahead there.
Until I want to see more data, I'm just going to lean it right because that's where it's been in every election since 2008 and in many before that. If you do that here's where you are. So let's say for the sake of argument, Donald Trump gets Georgia back, and Kamala Harris can hold on to Nevada, which has been mostly a Democratic state, even though it's tough right now. What's that gets you? 262-256. Nebraska would get whoever gets at one more. It would all come down to Pennsylvania.
Let's flip the scenario for the sake of argument. Harris does well in the suburbs like Joe Biden. She holds Georgia. But the economic hardships after COVID in Nevada cause it to go back to Donald Trump. Same idea, 266, 252. Somebody gets that one, it still comes down to Pennsylvania.
That's where we are. I can give you other scenarios where Pennsylvania doesn't matter. But as this plays out, the reason both campaigns are spending way more money there than anywhere else is because they think it is what's going to tip the scales.
COOPER: And how is the former president doing in battleground states compared to when he ran in 2016 and 2020? KING: This is the most remarkable thing I find about Donald Trump. For
all the volatility in our politics and all the volatility in him that you played in that segment at the top of the program, which was breathtaking, by the way, look at Donald Trump. In these volatile times, in all the tumult we've had in our American politics, he's a straight line. He's at 49 percent in Arizona in our new poll. He was at 49 percent in Arizona. That's the result in 2020. That was the result in 2016.
In Georgia, this is the one slight aberration, 47, 49, 51. If you look at these six battleground states, two elections that have been settled, these are the final results, and in our polling here, Donald Trump has never gotten the majority, except for in Georgia, once, once. He's the 47, 48, occasionally 49 guy.
Now, that's significant. It's going to get you close to 50. But if you're Kamala Harris, you're thinking, I need to get to 49 point what? Right? You want to get to 50. But what is it? And how strong? In 2016, the third party candidates made the difference. When Joe Biden got out of the race, one of the reasons Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. left the race is because support for third-party candidates plummeted.
So if you look at Donald Trump for all the tumult in our politics, in the battleground states, he's essentially a flat line. So Harris knows what she needs to be. Now, in some cases, it's 47 percent, 49 percent. That's hard to beat, but at least you know what the target is.
COOPER: I think we only have like 40 seconds left. Is Harris succeeding in solidifying the Democratic base?
KING: So one question, yes. The answer is yes. She's made enormous progress, improving on Joe Biden's position.
[20:40:03]
Here's one thing I want to show you just to watch. Out in the west, she has some troubles with Latino voters. In the battleground states of Pennsylvania and Georgia where black votes matters, in our polling, she's running a little bit behind where Biden was in 2020 right now. I want to point this out. It's a smaller subset of voters, so the margin of error is large. So I'm not saying this is -- these numbers could be a little bit better.
Polling should not answer your questions. You should raise your questions. So when I read our polling, I said, OK, let's watch this to see if in other polls these numbers are a little bit higher. It might not be a problem but it's something the Harris campaign, they need this turnout so they're going to keep an eye on that.
COOPER: All right. John King, thanks so much. Fascinating.
Excuse me, a programming reminder. The only scheduled presidential debate next Tuesday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. You can catch the ABC News presidential debate simulcast plus post-debate analysis right here on CNN. You can watch the whole thing here. Coming up, tonight, Apalachee High School gathers to remember the two
teachers and two students murdered Wednesday. A relative of the math teacher Cristina Irimie joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:24]
COOPER: There's a memorial service at Apalachee High School outside Atlanta tonight for the two students and two teachers killed on Wednesday. The suspect and his father charged in the connection to the shooting appeared in court today. One of those teachers murdered was Cristina Irimie, she was a Romanian descent, was active in that community, and incredibly dedicated to her students.
Earlier I spoke to a friend and relative, Gabrielle Buth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Gabrielle, thank you for joining us. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Cristina went back to school to become a teacher and this was something she loved and I understand that she told you she felt a calling to teach and to care for children, and she felt that in her soul.
GABRIELLE BUTH, RELATIVE OF SHOOTING VICTIM CRISTINA IRIMIE: That's correct. Yes, she did. Her husband suggested, Dorin, that she go back to college to do something she loved after she immigrated to the United States. And that was in 2012. And she began in January 2013. And she did the best she could. I mean, English was her second language and she only ever had one B and that was in physics.
COOPER: What do you think it was about teaching that she loves? Because I know she had struggles with infertility and that she told you, she said that it's OK because the students are my kids.
BUTH: I think it was the hope of the future for her that she loved. I think just teaching people or children something she loved. She didn't want a bad connotation on math. She told Dorin that, you know, her goal as a teacher was to help students to love math. She told him -- she would tell him constantly, he shared this, he said, you know, she would come home after work and work on grading papers and whatever, and he would ask her to come join him, and she'd be like, please let me just finish. I'm so invested. I want my kids to not only learn math, but to love it, to love to study, to love the material. And I think that's what she wanted for her students.
COOPER: Dorin is her husband.
BUTH: Dorin is her husband.
COOPER: Yes. I understand that when she'd pick up the phone when you were calling, she would say in Romanian, to you, hello, my love. That's how she answered the phone. BUTH: Yes.
COOPER: I love that.
BUTH: That's how she -- just not even on the phone. If you would shout her name at the house, you know, Cristina, she'd be like, (speaking in foreign language). Like that's just, yes, my love. That was -- I still hear it. It's really weird. I was expecting to hear it when I was calling her that day.
COOPER: You called her number that day?
BUTH: Multiple times, yes.
COOPER: She had -- it was her birthday. Her mom was visiting. Her mom had had surgery. So she wasn't able to celebrate her birthday. And I understand that Tuesday night she baked a cake, a birthday cake at her home by herself, and then brought it in to school to share with the kids on the day that she was killed.
BUTH: That's exactly right. Pizza and birthday cake because she wanted -- she wanted to celebrate her birthday with her kids.
COOPER: You said that you'd never seen her frown and you said that I don't think she has the facial muscles to frown. I thought that was -- I've never heard that before. I thought that was incredible.
BUTH: Yes, she was, she was full of life. She was happy. She is very smart, full of life. She loved her community. She loved -- she was proud of being Romanian. She loved her family. She was --
COOPER: She did traditional Romanian dancing, which is what some of the pictures we saw of her. That's what they relate to.
BUTH: Yes. So some of that picture right there, she actually taught at the Romanian Orthodox Church. The Romanian folklore dancing. She wanted to keep the tradition alive.
COOPER: I want to play, there's some sound that we have from a young person who heard something about her final moments. And I just want to play what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My friend, my neighbor, she was going to get shot, but Miss Irimie stood up and took the bullet for her. So, yes, but, you know, that's very, very strong for her to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:12]
COOPER: It wouldn't surprise you to hear that she wanted and do anything to protect her kids.
BUTH: No. Because they were her kids. Sorry. No, that's what we thought all along because that's just who she was. She would spring into action. She wouldn't -- she died for her children, like any good mom would do. Like a good teacher would do. She couldn't have her own so these were her kids. Sorry. I'm sorry.
COOPER: There's nothing wrong with tears. It's OK. Is there anything else you want people to know?
BUTH: Yes. I think I'd like to just speak on Dorin's behalf if that's OK. He said he wanted the world to know that Cristina was a wonderful woman with a big heart and a good soul, and he said that she was a real warrior, but not the kind with a sword. She was a warrior with her soul. And just let the world know that she loved children. She was very devoted to children.
COOPER: Gabrielle Buth, thank you so much for talking to us. And I'm sorry it's under these horrible circumstances. But thank you.
BUTH: Thanks for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A GoFundMe has been set up to support Cristina Irimie's family. You'll find that online, the address you see at the bottom of your screen. It's gofundme.com/f/honor-cristina-irimies-legacy- support-her-family.
Coming up next, a message from the parents of Hersh Goldberg-Polin as the other families continue to call for the release of all those now held in Gaza.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:49]
COOPER: Today in the West Bank, a 26-year-old American woman protesting settlements were shot and killed by the IDF, according to witnesses. Aysenur Eygi, her name, recently graduated from the University of Washington. And the Israeli military admits to firing at demonstrators and says it's, quote, "looking into reports that a foreign national was killed."
Meanwhile, more urgent calls for the release of all the hostages still being held in Gaza by Hamas, including from the grieving parents of 23-year-old Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin, who was murdered after more than 300 days in captivity by Hamas, along with five other hostages last weekend. Yesterday, the terror group released a propaganda video recorded at some point when Hersh was alive.
CNN is obviously not showing that video. Since his abduction at the Nova Music Festival nearly a year ago, his parents worked tirelessly to raise awareness about him and the other hostages. They released a statement in response to the video yesterday that reads in part, "This must serve as an immediate wake-up call to the world to take action today to secure the release of the remaining 101 hostages before it is too late. No other families should go through what our family and the families of the other recently executed hostages have endured." But yesterday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told FOX News
there is not a deal in the making. He also said, I quote, "Unfortunately, it's not even close," as he denied comments from the White House that an agreement was 90 percent completed.
Earlier this week, I talked with Orna and Ronen Neutra. Their son, Omer, who is Israeli and American, is still being held captive. He'll be turning 23 soon. This could be his second birthday as a hostage. I asked Orna and Ronen if they have faith in the prime minister. Here are some of what they told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ORNA NEUTRA, MOTHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN HOSTAGE IN GAZA: We don't honestly.
RONEN NEUTRA, FATHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN HOSTAGE IN GAZA: Unfortunately not. We met him in the White House with President Biden. We looked him in the eyes. And unfortunately our feeling is that he has his own political future ahead of him, rather than the safety of our son. 11 months should have been enough time to reach military achievements that our military apparatus are all saying that we already reached and a deal has matured. And what we hear from Benjamin Netanyahu is that we're not there yet. So who do we need to believe to?
O. NEUTRA: You know, it's really, it's not just our son. I don't believe that he has the interest of the Israeli people as his top priority. Anyone, you know, that's looking at this can see that Israelis need the hostages to come home for them to be able to recover from this, to move forward.
R. NEUTRA: I want to remind and kind of put on the table the fact that the path for stability in the Middle East is bringing the hostages. We look at it as the key for stability. And we urge the U.S. government to do everything in its power to use all the intelligence and other technological resource to bring help, bring the hostages back. Work with our partners hand in hand and bring Prime Minister Netanyahu to the point, where he's going to agree to a deal with Hamas.
