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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Says He "Won" Debate, Contradicting His Own Allies; Trump Repeats Unsubstantiated Claim About Migrants In Ohio Eating people's Pets; Harris And Trump Face Off In A Fiery Presidential Debate. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired September 11, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: The simplest way to combat misinformation is with the truth. "Variety's" Chris Willman, thinks Swift's endorsement could impact a close election.
CHRIS WILLMAN, SENIOR MUSIC WRITER AND CHIEF MUSIC CRITIC, "VARIETY": You listen to each line on each record and feel it deeply as if it were your own life.
WAGMEISTER: In the hours since her endorsement, just last night, more than 300,000 visitors referred directly by Swift's Instagram, clicked through to vote.gov according to GSA.
Elizabeth Wagmeister, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to Elizabeth and thanks to all of you for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:40]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360 breaking news, on just how many millions watched the presidential debate last night, whether to expect another one and what impact the former president's performance and Taylor Swift's Harris might have.
Also tonight, with him posting cat memes and amplifying unsupported claims about migrants eating dogs, a new reporting on the real world impact to one Ohio community.
And former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi joins me live to talk debate and the race ahead.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
With just 55 days until the election, we begin with the impact of last night's first and only scheduled presidential debate could have on a race that's now a sprint.
An estimated 67.1 million people watched according to Nielsen figures out in the past 45 minutes including Taylor Swift, whose first move was to tell her 283 million Instagram followers that she'd be voting for Kamala Harris.
Her posting in turn has sent more than 300,000 visitors and counting to the federal government's voter information website.
Now, the day began with the absence of campaign politics in a remembrance, the Al-Qaeda attacks, which united American's determination 23 years ago today. The two candidates together in Lower Manhattan along with President Biden, former Mayors Bloomberg and Giuliani and others remembering the nearly 3,000 lives lost on 9/11.
Politics returned later today outside the Flight 93 National Memorial in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.
The former president had this to say when asked about a possible second debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're looking at it but you know, when you win you don't really necessarily have to do it the second time, so we'll see.
When you don't win, it's like a fighter. When a fighter has a bad fight gets knocked out or loses the fight, the first thing he says is, we want a rematch.
So, we won the debate according to every poll, every single poll. I think that -- are we going to do a rematch? I just don't know, we'll think about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As for winning the debate in every single poll, according to our post-debate flash poll debate watchers by 63 to 37 percent said that Vice President Harris performed better last night.
And though there's no way to know precisely when last night that perception began forming. There was a precise moment, 9:28 PM, when the vice president made the first remark that clearly got under the former president's skin and he never seemed to quite recover from.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to actually do something really unusual and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch.
You will see during the course of his rallies, he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk about windmills cause cancer, and what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.
And I will tell you the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The vice president has spent part of her day strategizing at campaign headquarters in Wilmington, Delaware. Like her, the former president was also off the campaign trail, but on social media, for the most part he reposted favorable reviews of his debate performance.
His campaign also put out a new ad focused on the vice president's interview with CNN's Dana Bash and the economy. Here's a portion of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: When it comes to the economy, groceries were less expensive, housing was more affordable when Donald Trump was president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet Harris still says--
HARRIS: Bidenomics is working.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it isn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Complicating the message today, new economic data showing inflation now at a three-year low. Last night, the former president called the economy, "horrible" and claimed falsely that the country is experiencing, "the worst inflation we've ever had," one of many fact checkable falsehoods.
He also, without evidence amplified a right-wing meme the claims Haitian migrants in Ohio are stealing people's house pets to eat.
Whatever he said or the vice president said on the debate stage last night or whatever the voters might take away from it, there's also the impact of what Taylor Swift said last night to consider in her post on Instagram, again, to more than a quarter billion followers.
Today, the Trump campaign, which would certainly have loved and endorsement from Swift put out a statement calling it more evidence that the Democratic Party has "become the party of the wealthy elite".
And late today JD Vance said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: ... care about what she thinks.
SEN. JD VANCE (R) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: Of course. Well, look, we admire Taylor Swift's music, but I don't think most Americans, whether they like her music or fans of hers or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of those Americans.
Look, when grocery prices go up by 20 percent, it hurts most Americans. It doesn't hurt Taylor Swift. When housing prices, because --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:10]
COOPER: He is of course campaigning to put a billionaire celebrity back in the White House.
A lot to get through tonight. Joining us CNN political commentators, Van Jones and David Axelrod, also a Republican strategist, Erin Perrine.
So, David I mean, obviously, the debate was a crucial moment. How do you think the dynamic -- I mean, have the dynamics of the race shifted?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know what, we don't -- I think they've shifted in some ways because anytime in an event when 67 million people are watching one candidate so clearly dominates the event, especially against someone who is expected to be the dominant figure on the stage. It has some kind of impact.
In terms of voting, we don't know. There's not a lot of elasticity in the electorate. And I think both campaigns are waiting to see how these polls shake out in a few days when this thing really washes through to see if it has influenced actual votes.
COOPER: Van, I mean, there was a polling about how, prior to the debate, about the large percentage of people who still want us to know more information about Kamala Harris.
I mean the debate, certainly, there were a lot of -- there was a lot of information there whether it's what she said or just how she appeared. Do you think it moved the needle?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know. They got the information that she whooped his butt, I mean, I'm still just giddy because you're sitting there chewing your fingernails down to the elbow is she going to go out there and is Donald Trump going to do to her what he's done to so many other people?
This guy has eaten presidential hopefuls like Tic-Tacs. He's been the Pac-Man of politics, destroying people. Kamala Harris went out there, whooped his butt and made it look easy -- made it look easy.
And so, in that regard that is information. Can she deal with Putin? Yes. Can she deal with a tough situation with pressure, with crisis? Yes.
Now, she has to now close the deal. People who before were Kamala curious, like okay, she handled Donald Trump, but they still have unanswered questions.
Listen, if you're Kamala Harris right now and you're listening, talk to reporters now. Talk to everybody. If you can handle Donald Trump, a raging bull, if you can be the matador against this crazy person, you can talk to a reporter.
Get out here, let people ask the tough questions. You can do it and I think she can start closing the deal with the people who are Kamala curious, but you still don't know what she's going to do for them.
COOPER: Erin, the former president is suggesting he won't do another debate. Do you think that's a smart idea?
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think time will tell. I think one, polling coming out of this debate. we will see kind of where things, if things did move at all between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump last night.
And the reason I would say at this point, I don't think he will is because he has set the marker now where well, if you lose the debate, you ask for another. So I'm not going to ask for another because I'm not the loser of this debate.
That's very much the marker he's put down for himself right now. So, he doesn't want to do Fox. He doesn't want to ask for another debate.
Will it happen? Should it happen? I don't know if it will happen. Should it happen at this point for Donald Trump? I don't think it should. Now, he's dealing with another new cycle instead of talking about the failures of the Biden-Harris administration, and how groceries or more expensive. It's harder to buy a home, it's harder to get ahead in this country than it was four years ago.
Instead of talking about that, he's getting distracted by Kamala being able to pull him off his mark in that debate.
I think at this point, it would be better to be doing the rallies, try to stay focused and hit home your message and get your -- get out the vote effort moving now.
I've heard from people in swing states. They're seeing stuff from the Trump team and not the Harris team. Those points of contact are going to make a big difference come November.
COOPER: David, I mean, do you think if you were in the Trump camp, would you suggest he debate again?
AXELROD: You know, I'd be very --
COOPER: Would debate -- should she debate again?
AXELROD: Well I think that, I think she's pretty confident. I actually think they do want to debate again because it would be, maybe a second shot of momentum if she could repeat what she did last night.
But if I'm on the Trump's side, you know, Erin recited the message that her rational strategist would like him to be on every single day.
He does not stick to the message and what -- you saw how easily distracted he was last night. You talk about rallies, the rallies, he can have his message on a prompter and he might read the message on the prompter. It's the other hour when he's improvising that becomes the problem and this has been the problem throughout for him.
He is not a disciplined candidate and he seems less disciplined and a little more frantic than he's been in the past.
COOPER: Van, Taylor Swift's not only endorsed, but then also posted information about, you know, where you can go to register about early -- she was encouraging early voting, which is always something that the Donald Trump has spoken against over the years.
Do you think that will have an impact?
JONES: I think that may well -- first, thank you JD Vance being the gift that keeps on giving. She signed the thing childless cat lady, because he just can't quit offending people.
[20:10:10]
And I think that there are people who don't watch CNN every day. I know it's hard for us to imagine that, there are people who are not engaged in politics.
COOPER: In the same way that the former president is reaching through, you know podcasts and to MMA fighters --
JONES: Sure, exactly. There are worlds adjacent to politics where there are stars and celebrities. There's the manosphere, all the bro stuff online that Trump is trying to do.
But Taylor Swift is a superpower on her own. She has as many Instagram and social media followers as some countries have citizens. And so when she moves, it moves the needle. Will it translate into votes for young people? I don't know, but it puts more attention on the fact that there is a choice out there named Kamala Harris.
AXELROD: One of the tells on this is last year when she encouraged people to register to vote there were these rumbles in Trump world and they ran a kind of mini negative campaign against her, the thought being to discourage her from actually getting into the race.
Today, Megyn Kelly and others were out there menacing her and saying, Republicans aren't going to come to your concerts anymore and so on.
So there's obvious concern on their part. And, you know, just in terms of getting people registered and getting people who aren't engaged now, engaged, someone with 283 million followers who is a cultural figure who appeals to people across generations and a lot of young people that'd be a concern.
COOPER: Erin, what do you think? Because obviously, JD Vance has kind of pooh-poohed saying she's a billionaire, even if you like her music, she's disconnected from where most Americans are.
Clearly, they would have loved to have had a Taylor Swift endorsement and obviously, he would be saying something very different if they got an endorsement. PERRINE: Right. I think the ability for this to be a monumental, not only endorsement, but opportunity for celebrities to step in and try to move the needle. I think it exists here.
It kind of brings me back to the 1990s when Rock the Votes started, it changed the way that younger people believed that they could be involved in the American voting system.
Because back in the 90s, most young people thought, hey, that's what older people do. They vote, that's not my thing. Rock the Vote and celebrities really changed to that approach.
Now, is this only this endorsement right here where she puts out the image, puts out her statement and encourages people to get more information. That likely won't make a huge difference.
But because of her platform and the opportunity that exists this here with her, if she is willing to do more whatever that may be, if that is a concert where your entry fee is a voter registration ticket that you've done that, that could help move the needle, if they're doing it.
And to be clear though, the margins are kind of small, even with Taylor Swift being a monumental star, because Kamala is already doing he really well with a lot of the demographics that are Taylor fans, women, younger voters, things like that.
So, there are margins that exist there for them, but it's how involved is she willing to get.
COOPER: Erin, you just reminded me that my first debate moderation was a Rock the Vote Democratic primary debate. I can't -- that totally dropped out of my mind. I now remember that.
JONES: Take you way back.
AXELROD: That's what happens when you get old.
COOPER: Yes, there were like 20 people on the stage.
We are going to take a short break.
Next, fact checking the apparently fact-free claim that the former president has been making about migrants taking and eating cats and dogs in one Ohio town. We sent a reporter there in search of the truth.
Later, House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi joins us live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:42]
COOPER: New reaction tonight in the wake of the debate talking point last night about Springfield, Ohio, which we should say right off the bat is not supported by any evidence that we or really anyone has been able to find.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats. They're eating -- they're eating the pets of the people that live there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He's talking about Black people, Haitian migrants. And yes, that actually happened last night in the presidential debate.
The former president amplifying a claim going around in right-wing media, he's also been citing the death of an 11-year-old Springfield boy last year when a Haitian driver now in prison hit the school bus he was riding in.
Here's what the father, Nathan, said last night at a public meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATHAN CLARK, AIDEN CLARK'S FATHER: They have spoken my son's name and used his death for political gain. This needs to stop now.
They can vomit all the hate they want about illegal immigrants, the border crisis, and even untrue claims about fluffy pets being ravaged and eaten by community members. However, they are not allowed nor have they ever been allowed to mention Aiden Clark from Springfield, Ohio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, tonight, Aiden Clark's dad built on his remarks saying in a statement: The attention brought to our case in the last few weeks is 100 percent politically motivated. We've been grieving for over a year now. So why are you suddenly concerned? Politics.
More on the politics of that and the related theories -- conspiracy theories about house pets from CNN's Omar Jimenez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): When you hear allegations of Haitians eating dogs and cats, and taking them off the street and stealing them in people's yards. What is your reaction when you hear that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was shocking to me honestly, because the first question I asked myself, where in the world do people are eating pets?
JIMENEZ (voice over):Vilas Dorsainvil is the head of the Haitian Community Help And Support Center in Springfield, Ohio. He came to the United States about four years ago from Haiti and he hasn't just questioned the nature of the recent rumors, he has questioned what they will do to his community.
[20:20:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just like xenophobia, it's just like bigotry, discrimination, and racist. And they do not normally take time to see the impact that can have on the mental health of the immigrants fleeing their country from all kinds of chaos.
JIMENEZ (voice over): To be clear, former President Donald Trump's claims are not supported by evidence.
In a statement to CNN, a spokesperson for the city of Springfield said: There have been no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured, or abused by individuals within the immigrant community.
But all of this has also come as part of a very real surge in Haitian population in Springfield.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have realistically have been saying 12,000 to 15,000 immigrants as what we have counted through the Health Department and other agencies.
JIMENEZ (voice over): And they are here legally under the Immigration Parole Program. Once here, immigrants are then eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status.
Haitian Temporary Protected Status was recently extended and redesignated for Haiti mainly due to violent anarchy in the country.
But the total population of Springfield is around 58,000. So, that's around 25 percent Haitian and the growing pains in the community have not always been easy. State officials say it is stressing resources.
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): That obviously represents a massive increase based upon percentage of the population in Springfield. It is unprecedented in such a short period of time. So, the government simply has to be part of the solution, they have to step up. It's their policies that have created these surges.
JIMENEZ (voice over): The influx of Haitians has also manifested itself in other ways including a tragedy, specifically in 2023 when 11-year-old Aiden Clark was killed and a Springfield bus crash, one that involved a Haitian immigrant who had a drivers license that was not valid in Ohio, as reported by "The New York Times".
Aiden's father declined to speak on camera, but as others have posted about the tragedy recently, he told CNN in a statement: We just want our family out of the news and for Aiden to not be mentioned in regards to politics.
Putting aside any unverified theories about cats and dogs Vilbran Dorsainvil, also Haitian, says he understands the criticisms about the strain on resources caused by the influx of immigrants.
VILBRAN DORSAINVIL, HAITIAN IMMIGRANT: I agree with these people.
JIMENEZ (voice over): But he also painted a harsh reality.
DORSAINVIL: If it was not for a matter of death or life in my country, it would be better to get back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ (on camera): That's also something we heard from another Haitian immigrant who spoke at that city council meeting saying that she estimates most Haitians, would want to go back if it were not for the crisis there right now.
Now, since we've been here in Springfield, no one we've spoken to, we haven't gotten any confirmation of pets being eaten or pets being taken to be served as food, but we did run down another video claim that former president shared on social media last night about a separate incident, not in Springfield, of a woman who allegedly ate a cat.
Now, we followed up with the police lieutenant in Canton where this allegedly happened. And they also told us they have no evidence to believe that that person was not a US citizen instead of what they've been described on as online as Haitian. It doesn't seem to be the case -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Omar Jimenez, thanks so much.
Back now with the panel. We all heard that Trump had had the social kind of very far right extremists, some quite zany, MAGA influencers on the plane with him and they'd been putting out these photographs.
To hear him, a former president of the United States at this crucial debate in his moment of meltdown, because she had criticized his crowd size and suggested that people were bored of him, go to that Black people, Haitian migrants are eating dogs and cats, I mean, I found it shocking.
AXELROD: Really.
COOPER: I mean, not surprising, but --
AXELROD: I think it was not surprising. It was appalling. But it wasn't surprising and that's really the point here. This isn't a one- off, this is part and parcel of who Donald Trump is and what his political project is. It was based --
I mean, remember what he said when he came down the escalator --
COOPER: To me it's like the Willie Horton ad, but like in modern times and social media is --
AXELROD: Yes, but part of the nature of Trump's politics is that he's taken Willie Horton ads out of the closet and he's made it mainstream by articulating it himself.
And that's one of the things people have to decide is, well, who's problem does that solve? What does it do for a country to have a leader who casually smears people in racial terms for his own political gain? And by the way, I feel terrible for the parents of that young man whose name they asked that we not mention his name, I won't mention his name. But they're clearly struggling with the loss of a child, which is the worst thing that you can ever deal with and to see politics drag them and their grief through the public square is another disgusting thing.
[20:25:22]
COOPER: Van.
JONES: I mean it's a horrible and some things are just kind of in plane site obvious, Donald Trump doesn't care about anybody but himself.
If he cared about this immigrant crisis, and there are some negative aspects of it, but not this racist lie he is telling, but it is tough on some of these communities to have new folks coming in. That is disruptive.
If he cared about it, we could have fixed it this spring. There was a bill that was negotiated in good faith between Republicans and Democrats to get something done and he blocked it.
So he's actually, it's his border crisis. It's his -- all that pain and suffering that's happening is at his foot. And then also, he talked about fentanyl, and they want to beat us up on that. I lost one of my closest friends to fentanyl.
We could have stopped a lot of that. There would be a lot more fentanyl testing strips down at the border right now if Donald Trump hadn't stood in the way.
So this same man who is inflicting pain on the country. He's hurting people. He's making these small towns suffer so that he can become president and stay out of jail.
AXELROD: Yes. I mean, I think this is the most important point. He was clear with Republicans, do not pass this bill because it will only help Democrats, we want the issue.
And so, the question is, do you want an issue or do you want to solve problems? And his values and his preferences are very clear.
COOPER: Erin, you're not working with the Trump campaign still, but is this -- if you were, is this a story you would want everyone talking about the day after the debate?
PERRINE: Absolutely not, there are so many other things that should be being talked about. You can talk about the strain on resources in communities, not only in places like Ohio, because as Trump and Republicans has said, every community is a border community because of the failures at the southern border.
You can talk about how it's happening in Texas and Ohio and these communities need more resources and we need to do that. And one thing I will say to Van's point about fentanyl, I do want to remind viewers that back in 2017, there was a major bipartisan piece of legislation that was passed when Donald Trump was president to fight opioid and fentanyl overdoses and they were starting to come down until the pandemic and there was that change.
So, I just want to be clear when it comes to overdoses and the work that was being done, I lost my brother to a drug overdose and so I understand what that feels like and I remember that legislation very carefully when it came to being able to fight that.
We still have those resources available. We can be using those as well right now on that specific topic.
COOPER: Erin Perrine, Van Jones, David Axelrod, thank you all, appreciate it.
Coming up more on what the former president's widely criticized debate performance may mean for his campaign.
I'll speak with someone he's repeatedly and baselessly criticized for the January 6 attack on the Capitol, including once again last night, House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:00]
COOPER: Among the former president's baseless allegations during the debate was one he has told several times about January 6th, claiming that ahead of the riot, then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi rejected his offer of 10,000 National Guard Troops to protect the nation's capital. Also that she was in charge security that day. Not for the first time, none of that is true. The January 6th Committee found no evidence of any order for 10,000 troops that day. The former president's own acting secretary of defense confirmed that in testimony. There is also no evidence he even offered the then-speaker thousands of troops. It's also not in her power to turn down such an offer. The president is in charge of the D.C. Guard, not the house speaker.
Joining me now is Democratic House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. She's also the author of the recently released book, " The Art of Power: My Story as America's First Woman Speaker of the House." First of all, I'm just wondering overall, what you thought of the debate last night because it does seem from, maybe like ten minutes into it, Vice President Harris certainly found a way to get underneath or under the skin of the former president in a way that very few people have in a public debate.
REP. EMERITA NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA): Well, let's just talk about her rather than him right now. We can come back to his skin later. But right now, I want to talk about her leadership. I was so proud of her. She was presidential. She showed her new way forward -- new and forward, her plan to take us forward, command of the issues, eloquence in talking about them, again, strategic in her thinking. I thought she was just spectacular, but her excellence did get under his skin. And it was so strange because one of the -- one of the things I was so proud about that Kamala, the vice president last night, was that she prioritized in her answers, any one of them could be a program discussion, but she prioritized the importance, whether it was the women's right to choose, whether it's our national security, whether it's issues that relate to our economy and the rest, she prioritized, and that means there's so much more to come as we go from here.
So, I think she did great. As to baiting him and him taking the bait, you know, I don't even like to use his name, much less talk about him. But the fact is, I thought he looked foolish last night. I thought she looked presidential. I thought he looked silly.
COOPER: Have you -- I mean, watching him on that stage, I mean, you've obviously -- you know him very well from interacting with him in a professional capacity. Has he -- what do you make of where he is at? Has he -- is his skill level the same? Is his -- I mean, is he different than he was as you recall, in office in terms of his stamina, thinking, whatever it may be?
PELOSI: You know, one of those big balloons, when you stick a pin in and it swirls around the room until it comes down to nothing, that's what he reminds me of, just less and less, and less and less.
[20:35:00]
Like somebody stuck a pin in him and he's just greatly diminished. The fact that we are talking about which and table issues, people's personal health, their financial health, all the things that people care about, and what is he talking about? And well, the things you talked about earlier, which I won't waste any -- I won't spend any more time going into. But I do think that people saw a big distinction as to who can be the commander in chief, who is respected. And she has served as vice president, as a Senator before that. This is a person who is a good person. Personally, I know her as a good person, a person of deep faith, who cares about people and her public service is a reflection of that.
Officially, I know her as a person of strength. She knows the priorities, the issues she commit -- has command of them, as I mentioned. She is strategic in how to get the job done, and eloquent in how to convey it. And politically, she is very astute. So, once she puts forth a new way forward, she's taking us from the greatness of Joe Biden and all that we working together accomplished in that term to new heights, to new heights in her way. So, I thought that was demonstrated very clearly. And with over, what, 67 million people watching, it's a good start. We say to everyone, now our work continues. We must get out the vote (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Let me ask you about that. I mean, as you -- I mean, you know a thing or two about campaigning. Your book has -- just fascinating look at politics in America and your career. What needs to happen now, in your opinion, for the Harris campaign? What -- because I mean, look, no matter how well people think she may have done last night, you look at the numbers. This is still -- tell me if you believe it -- a very, very close race, particularly in these battleground states.
PELOSI: Absolutely. Well, first let me just say that my hope, what I loved about last night, she was herself. She was herself and being articulate, and knowledgeable, and prioritizing and the rest. She doesn't need any advice from the rest of us on how she should proceed, but what we need to do is to make sure she wins. So for all of those millions of people who saw her and were excited by it, the rest, we don't -- that's OK.
But we have to -- we have to put it into action. So that means we must -- I have three Ms. Mobilize -- we must own the ground to get out the vote, every single vote that is for Kamala Harris to come to the polls. We have to Message in a way that is inspiring. You don't run on empty. As you mobilize, you need inspiration. We want a Message that is bold and progressive, but not menacing, but is unifying for our country. As she said, turn the page where we want to unify America. Mobilization, Message, and of course, the Money to get the job done. And small donors have been just so enthusiastic about her campaign. But this must continue.
So I have the three Ms and I have the three No's -- no waste of time; no underutilized resource, and no regrets the day after the election that we could have walked another precinct or made more calls, or sent more texts or postcards and the rest. So, we are getting down to the basics here. But we don't agonize over him. We organize about her. Mobilization, Message, Money -- own the ground because all of it is just a conversation unless you own the ground. So people are brave, they are working, and that's what it will take because I believe every race is close. Now, she'll win the popular vote, but we have to win in those targeted states.
COOPER: There are people who watched the debate last night and agonized about a return to that for the next four years. You write in your book, the threat to our democracy is real, present and urgent. The parable of January 6 reminds us that are precious democratic institutions are only as strong as the courage and commitment of those entrusted with their care. The former president recently posted about jailing election officials he views as cheating. A couple of weeks ago, he shared a computer-generated image of you and several other prominent Democrats in orange jumpsuits with the caption, how to actually fix the system? Do you -- I mean, do you take these threats of political retribution seriously?
PELOSI: Yes, I do. His people have already acted upon my family in my own home.
COOPER: And made fun of it.
PELOSI: So yes, I take his threats seriously. Let me just say, what is so offensive to me is that there's some really good Republicans out there who put up with his saying.
[20:40:00]
He never offered any, any, any National Guard. Even Mitch McConnell joined us in our bipartisan urgent please, please send them. Please send the National Guard and his secretary of the army, secretary of defense, oh, it takes a lot of time, (inaudible) and he never did until finally, he did hours later, more people injured, some people then subsequent to that dying, because he wouldn't send the National Guard. So for him to go on TV and lie about it, I mean he lies all the time. That's the only -- I don't know if he knows what the truth is. He is so foreign from it in his statements.
But for him to lie about sending the National Guard. I sent it, they refused it. Please press, please press don't, let him get away with that. That's so ridiculous and he knows that we do not have control of the security. That's dealt in a different way.
COOPER: Yeah.
PELOSI: And the power of the White House. Now hopefully, we could get the District of Columbia made into a state and then the leader of the District of Columbia can call out the National Guard. But until that happens and unless it does, we are dependent on the president who has incited the insurrection and refused to send the National Guard.
COOPER: Yeah.
PELOSI: So when he talks about arresting people and the rest, isn't that offensive to people? Am I missing something here? You know what? We don't agonize; we organize. We just have to win, we have to win big. I don't know if you saw, but the administration has called January 6th a special security event. So that means that there will be more security there from the start, so that we don't have it -- and of course, most important to that, is to have Hakeem Jeffries have the gavel and be the speaker of the house. It would have been a very different outcome if I didn't have the gavel and the Democrats had the majority in the house.
COOPER: Yeah. House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, I very much appreciate it. Thank you.
PELOSI: Thank you. My pleasure.
COOPER: Again, the book is titled, "The Art of Power: My Story as America's First Woman Speaker of the House."
Coming up, how Vice President Harris appeared to get under the former president's skin, as we just mentioned, by talking about his inherited wealth and his father. His niece, Mary Trump, weighs in next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:25]
COOPER: We've discussed how Vice President Harris was able to bait the former president during the debate. Another example of turning a question about fracking into a reminder of a "New York Times" report that much of the former president's fortune was inherited from his father, at least $413 million according to "The Times." Here is his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (D) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, first of all, I wasn't given $400 million. I wish I was. My father was a Brooklyn builder, Brooklyn, Queens, and a great father. And I learned a lot from him. But I was given a fraction of that, a tiny fraction, and I built it into many, many billions of dollars -- many, many billions -- and when people see it, they are even surprised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Perspective now from his niece, Mary Trump, author of the just released book, "Who Could Ever Love You: A Family Memoir." First of all, I have to ask you about the debate. What did you think? For me, it was the first time I've seen somebody figure out a way to completely rattle the former president and in the most simplistic of ways, criticizing, suggesting people were bored by his rallies and leaving. And from then on, he was just yelling, that got -- that needled him so much, he was knocked off the rest of the night.
MARY TRUMP, AUTHOR, "WHO COULD EVER LOVE YOU": It was incredibly validating, that debate, because some of us have known for a while that, that is the way to go. But who has been in a position to press him in that kind of venue? Nobody.
COOPER: There's, one, figuring that out; and two, having the ability to do it --
M. TRUMP: Exactly.
COOPER: -- even if you know that's how to do it.
M. TRUMP: Well, that was the thing that she did so brilliantly. Vice President Harris both gave substantive answers to questions to help the American people get to know her better and what she's going to do for our country, while going straight at Donald's vulnerabilities. The narcissistic injury she inflicted on him in the first 20 or 15 minutes of the debate, did exactly what it needed to do, which as you just said, was make him unravel. He couldn't recover. And honestly, he's not going to you.
COOPER: You write in your new book, the trouble with Donald had started long before he entered school. At home, he tormented his little brother, Robert, a year-and-a-half younger and seemed to have nothing but disdain for everybody else, including and perhaps especially his mother. The kids in the neighborhood alternatively despised and feared him. He had a reputation for being a thin-skinned bully who beat up younger kids, but ran home in a fit of rage as soon as somebody stood up to him.
I mean, is that -- I mean, it's so -- it's fascinating to hear that description of a little boy and seeing the man.
M. TRUMP: That is one of the most damning and dangerous things about Donald Trump. And that is the thing that -- one of the things that makes him most unfit. He's never evolved from that. That's still who he is.
COOPER: You see that in him now?
M. TRUMP: Absolutely.
COOPER: I mean, your book is very moving, it is deeply personal. You write about your childhood, growing up in the Trump family. Your father suffered from alcoholism. He died when he was just 42-years- old. And you write about this comparison between how your father was treated by his father, by your grandfather, and how the former president was kind of molded into the person he is today.
M. TRUMP: Yeah. Interestingly, because my dad was eight years older than Donald, he was the heir. He was the namesake. He was the oldest son. All of the attention was on my dad for a long time.
COOPER: The expectation was on him because he was the oldest?
M. TRUMP: Exactly. Very much in the mold of that time, as the oldest son, a namesake, he was expected to take over the family business/empire.
[20:50:00]
And for reasons that aren't necessarily explicit, my grandfather found my father wanting, even though my dad had every intention of fulfilling that role. His problem was that he wasn't as tough as my grandfather wanted him to be, and he also had interests outside of the family business. He was an expert boatman and fisherman and pilot, and my grandfather had nothing but contempt for those things.
So by the time my dad was in his early 20s, my grandfather had already shifted attention to Donald.
COOPER: When you see Donald Trump on the stage last tonight, compared to what he was in 2016 or even 2020, do you see a big difference?
M. TRUMP: I do, especially from 20 years ago, but even from eight years ago. He is -- he has much less impulse control to the extent he ever had any. He is incapable of bringing assault to conclusion. He goes off on tangents. And I think part of it is because he hasn't been pressed, he hasn't been challenged, and he's gotten away with so much. This is a man who spent his entire life pushing the envelope to see what he can get away with and as soon as you realize there's nobody who is going to stop him, he pushes the envelope some more.
COOPER: There's so much in the book. Mary Trump, thank you so much.
M. TRUMP: Thank you, Anderson. It was wonderful to be here.
COOPER: Up next, in our continuing series of 53 percent, our Randi Kaye returns in Georgia, get reaction from a group of women voters to last night's presidential debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: For months now, we've been following the presidential campaign with a group of women voters in battleground Georgia. Our Randi Kaye return there last night to watch the debate with them and it was her fourth visit. And it's the latest installment in our election year series, the 53 percent.
[20:55:00]
It's called that because that's the average proportion of women voters taking part in presidential elections since 2000. Here is Randi's report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Macon, Georgia, we watched the presidential debate with these five women, all of them were undecided months ago when we first started visiting with them.
ANDREA COOKE, GEORGIA VOTER: Seeing this debate, I immediately noticed how much older than her he is.
BRITNEY DANIELS, GEORGIA VOTER: He was not ready for her.
COOKE: I think that he just did not expect her to come as hard as she did. I think that he underestimated her when he (ph) showed up.
KAYE HLAVATY, GEORGIA VOTER: I didn't think she was going to be the person that went in for the jugular.
EMILY AMOS, UNDECIDED GEORGIA VOTER: I think that she came prepared for a tussle and he met his match.
KAY BELIVEAU, GEORGIA VOTER: He could have done a better job. He really could have. So, I was a little disappointed in him.
KAYE: What did you make of her right off the top, walking over to his podium, putting out her hand, introducing herself as Kamala Harris?
BELIVEAU: I just think she was making a statement. I'm here. I'm in charge.
KAYE: How many of you think Donald Trump won the debate? Raise your hand.
COOKE: I believe, hands down, it was kamala.
HLAVATY: I think that Donald Trump came to say what he wanted to say. Kamala was very rehearsed.
AMOS: You are not going to bully a prosecutor.
KAYE: What do you make of when she said that Trump was fired by -- this was another moment -- Trump was fired by 81 million people and he is clearly having a hard time processing that.
(LAUGH)
COOKE: I think that that absolutely rattled him.
HLAVATY: Yes.
COOKE: It knocked him off of whatever high horse he was on at that moment.
KAYE: How many of you believe Donald Trump looked more presidential tonight than Kamala Harris? Raise your hand.
How many of you believe Kamala Harris looked more presidential tonight? I saw you were about to raise your hand and --
(CROSSTALK)
BELIVEAU: It's painful to raise my hand thinking, yes, she looked a little more presidential. But I still, I'm sorry -- all in all, I don't believe what she says. I think she's says what she thinks people want to hear.
KAYE: How do you think Trump did in answering the question about calling out Kamala Harris for her race? His response was, I don't really care about her race.
AMOS: By him simply saying that I don't care, I don't care, that lets me know you actually do care because you would have never brought it up. It would have never even slipped out of your mouth if it wasn't an issue.
KAYE: Did anybody hear a solid plan on anything from Donald Trump tonight?
COOKE: Absolutely not.
DANIELS: I did not.
HLAVATY: No.
BELIVEAU: He could have been more to the point, telling us more about what the plans are, what does he plan to do.
DANIELS: We are suffering from the economy the most, the middle- class, lower-class people, and Trump did not state that at all. He really didn't mention anything about his policies. He avoided all of those questions about just straight policy.
KAYE: You were still undecided after the last meeting as a group.
AMOS: Yes.
KAYE: You were wanting to hear more from Kamala Harris.
AMOS: Yes.
KAYE: Did you hear enough at this debate to decide? AMOS: Not 100 percent decide. And I'm feeling really, really, really promising in her direction. I wasn't quite sure what Kamala Harris was about, what her policies were, what she stood for. And tonight, she answered so to a lot of those questions for me and I want to hear more --
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: More like how she's going to get it done?
AMOS: Right, exactly. Yeah. Specifically, obviously about the small businesses. I want to hear how it's going to get done because I do understand when money gets moved around, the money has to come from somewhere.
BELIVEAU: Yeah.
AMOS: Where are you got to pull that money from?
KAYE: Where do you stand after the debate?
HLAVATY: I truly believe Kamala Harris is a great spokesman and she will represent our country well. Will she laid our country well? I still think Trump has the experience to go forward and be the leader, instead of the spokesman.
KAYE: And just to sum up for you, because you were considering Kamala last time we spoke, what was it about this debate that made you say, I'm going to go back to Trump?
HLAVATY: Where has she been the last three-and-a-half years? And why can we expect something different now?
KAYE: Kamala Harris' team is already asking for another debate. If you were Donald Trump, would you debate her again?
DANIELS: Oh, no.
BELIVEAU: Yes, he needs to. He should.
DANIELS: But he probably won't.
KAYE: And why do you think he needs to?
BELIVEAU: To answer questions. We really didn't get a lot of answers tonight.
DANIELS: Right.
BELIVEAU: We need to know more. Some solid information.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE (on camera): And Anderson, all of the women in our group did think that Donald Trump did poorly at the debate, including the Republican women. In fact, one Republican woman gave Kamala Harris a glowing review saying that she seemed energetic and smooth on stage, though she is still voting for Donald Trump, not because she likes Trump, but because she likes his policies. And then Anderson, the two Democrats in our group really seemed to connect with Kamala Harris.
