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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Graphic Comments by NC GOP Governor Nominee Uncovered by CNN; New Polls Show Tight Presidential Race in PA; Harris and Oprah Unite for Campaign Event. Harris And Oprah Unite For Livestream Campaign Event. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 19, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): making their source so tough to define, someone clearly wanted to hide it.
Israel struck with sophistication before killing an Iranian nuclear scientist here, apparently with the facial recognition activated machine gun.
And killing Hamas' lead negotiator in this Tehran guest house apparently planting a bomb. But the Lebanon blasts on another scale in terms of the innocents hit and the months of meticulous preparation involved.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to Nick and thanks of course to all of you as always. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:42]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, a CNN exclusive, our KFILE has uncovered startling comments on a porn site made by the man now running to be the Republican Governor of North Carolina, Mark Robinson.
He denies the charges, vows to stay in the race. The latest tonight.
Also, just a few moments from now, Oprah Winfrey is scheduled to appear with Vice President Kamala Harris just outside of Detroit in swing state, Michigan. We'll bring you some of that live.
And, breaking news in Kentucky, a judge shot dead in his own chambers. Authorities say a preliminary investigation indicates it was a sheriff who killed him. We're expecting a news conference with more details.
We begin tonight with our CNN exclusive, 47 days before the election, a bombshell report from CNN's KFILEs about North Carolina's Republican Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, who's also his party's nominee for governor. Newly discovered comments that he made on the message board of a porn website between the years 2008 and 2012. Comments that follow an already lengthy history of controversial past remarks about abortion, 9/11, and people who are transgender.
Tonight, the NAACP, North Carolina's Raleigh News and observers is calling for Robinson to drop out of the gubernatorial race with at least one congressional Republican agreeing and more starting to distance themselves from Robinson.
This comes as polls suggests, the state the former president has won twice maybe up for grabs. Senior editor of CNN's KFILEs, Andrew Kaczynski joins us now.
So, talk about first all, where did Robinson make these comments?
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Well, Anderson CNN found a series of highly disturbing post made on the message board of a pornographic website more than a decade ago.
We traced them directly to Mark Robinson. Now, we did interview him today, and he categorically denies making these post. I'll get to that in just a moment.
But first, I want to walk people through just some of them. Take a look at this right here in one post, Robinson called himself a, "Black Nazi". And when discussing then President Barack Obama in 2012, writing, "I take Hitler over any of the shit, that's Washington right now."
It even really goes beyond that. In another disturbing post, Robinson defended slavery, writing, "Slavery is not bad, and I wish they would bring back slavery. I would certainly buy a few".
Now, all of these and many other comments you can read on CNN.com were made of the message board of a porn website called "Nude Africa". And, Anderson, in addition to those posts, he also expressed views on "Nude Africa" that sharply contradict his current policies as a socially conservative candidate for governor.
For example, he has been vocally anti-transgender, but look at what Robinson wrote on the porn message board a decade ago, writing that he liked, "watching transgender porn", adding, "Thats F--ing hot" and calling himself a "Perv".
In another thread that was discussing the story of a woman who said she had been raped by her taxi driver while she was drunk, Robinson wrote, "And the moral of this story, don't F a drunk White bitch".
COOPER: So, he wrote all this years ago. He was, I guess I'm not sure what he was doing then, he was a citizen before he got into politics. How do you know that it's him?
KACZYNSKI: Well, Anderson, we found that Robinson consistently used that same username, "Mini Soldier" that he used on "Nude Africa" in all of his social media. You can see it on Pinterest, Black Planet, YouTube. He even previously used it as his Twitter handle and his full name was also listed on "Nude Africa" along with an e-mail that he used on "Nude Africa" that he used on several other websites.
Now, the biographical data from multiple sites using "Mini Soldier" also matches Robinson's. His exact date of birth, his hometown. The fact that his mother worked in HBCU, even having his favorite episode of the "Twilight Zone" as number 22.
COOPER: And what is Robinson now saying about all this?
KACZYNSKI: So, Robinson calls this trash. He says it's not him. We asked that campaign for comment and we gave them 48 hours to respond. That deadline was this morning and that's when Lieutenant Governor Robinson agreed to do a brief interview with us.
Here is just a bit of that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KACZYNSKI (on camera): Lieutenant Governor Robinson, thank you so much for being willing to talk to us. I think we'll just jump right into it. Do you deny that this account is you?
[20:05:01]
LT. GOV. MARK ROBINSON (R) NORTH CAROLINA GOV. CANDIDATE: Well, first off, let me say thank you so much for allowing me to come here and clear it here. We absolutely do, this is not us, these are not our words and this is not anything that is characteristic of me, nor has it ever been.
The people here of North Carolina know, I have been completely transparent about my history. All the warts, we put them all out. We let folks know about it. But the folks here also know my character. They know who I am, they know my voice so to speak.
This is not my voice, these are not things that we would ever say or even think and so, absolutely we do.
KACZYNSKI (on camera): How do you explain all of the matching details on this profile? The profile on "Nude Africa" lists your full name as Mark Robinson, the email listed on the account is an email that you used -- you have used elsewhere on the internet, including with your photo.
You have used that name Mini Soldier on multiple social media accounts, including Twitter, Pinterest, Black Planet, and YouTube. How can you deny with all of these matching details that this is you?
ROBINSON: Look, I'm not going to get into the minutiae of how somebody manufactured these salacious tabloid lives. But I can tell you this, there's been over $1 million spent on me through AI by a billionaire's son who's bound and determined to destroy me. The things that people can do with the internet now is incredible. But what I can tell you is this, again, these are not my words. This is simply tabloid trash being used as a distraction from the substantive issues that the people of this state are facing.
We have addressed it. We have said it's not true, and we wish we could move on and get busy with the business of the people of the state.
KACZYNSKI (on camera): Okay, well these posts, did you take place over a five-year period from 2008 to 2013. You mentioned AI. Are you saying that somebody was somehow manufacturing biographical details to exactly match you using your username?
ROBINSON: Look, I have no idea how this was done. I have absolutely no idea how it was done and I have five weeks left in this campaign to focus on the substantive issues that North Carolinians face. I do not have time for tabloid trash.
KACZYNSKI (on camera): There have been rumors that some of your campaign staff have quit. Can you tell us if that's true or not.
ROBINSON: Absolutely not and we are not getting out of this race. There are people who are counting on us to win this race because again, we don't want a governor who's going to be a person that can't be counted on to tell the truth.
And I can assure you, my opponent has been taken to court for not telling the truth in campaigns and he's been completely dishonest in his ads against me.
His camp is so desperate to destroy us. It's just like Clarence Thomas said years ago. This is a high-tech lynching and, you know, back long years ago, they used to use rope, now they're using cable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KACZYNSKI (on camera): Now, lieutenant governor Robinson released a video on X shortly after our interview underscoring that he plans to still stay in the race -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Andrew Kaczynski, thank you. There are a lot of questions obviously tonight about what impact this might have on other candidates on the ballot in North Carolina, especially the top of the GOP ticket.
We're going to Alayna Treene, who's covering the Trump event tonight in Washington. Are you hearing anything from people in the former president's orbit about this?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yes. We've begun to hear some things about this. So, many people in Donald Trump's orbit had actually been preparing and had heard rumblings about a controversial story about Mark Robinson prior to that KFILE reporting dropping today.
Now, I've been told that they had not -- Donald Trump's campaign had not invited Robinson to a rally that is scheduled for this Saturday in Wilmington, North Carolina. And now, they are saying that that decision is expected to hold, but of course very notable that Donald Trump is going to be in the state just days after this bombshell reporting from our own Andrew Kaczynski.
Now, I've also been told that many people within Donald Trump's campaign and those close to the former president has long had reservations about Robinson's gubernatorial candidacy, particularly because this isn't the first time that he has made very controversial and pretty damaging remarks.
Remember, he has previously mocked victims of school shootings. He has been very demeaning to the civil rights movement. There's a lot of other examples I can point you to, but that has already led to a lot of unease within Trump's orbit, but that hasn't stopped, I should argue Donald Trump from continuing to support Robinson.
He endorsed him earlier this year, so there's a lot of questions about that.
Now, I am told that Donald Trump's team wants to continue to try to distance him -- distance the former president from Robinson. But at this moment in time, they say that there are no plans to try and pressure him to withdraw from the race himself -- Anderson.
COOPER: Alayna Treene, thank you.
I'm joined now by CNN's Eva McKend, Jamal Simmons, former communications director for vice president Harris, Matt Mowers, a former official in the Trump administration; and former RNC communications director Doug Heye.
Jamal, there's a lot to unpack here. I'm not sure how much we actually want to unpack but --
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is still the family hour.
COOPER: It certainly is, and apparently there's other things that were written which have not been put out there. What is the impact of this?
[20:10:08]
SIMMONS: I think it's going to have a big deal in the state of North Carolina.
COOPER: He's already down in the polls.
SIMMONS: He's already down. But one thing has gotten politicians in trouble in the past and maybe will continue to is hypocrisy. The fact that he said things in public, that he does not seem to believe in private.
The same thing that also gets politicians in trouble is being hateful and going against American institutions and right now, I think most Americans consider Martin Luther King to be an American institution they're proud of, slavery to be something that they're against and don't want back. And Hitler to be something they despise, someone they despise.
So, to be for those things is actually not really a great place for the candidate to be. Now, what were going to see is whether or not Trump's style politics will apply to anybody else other than Donald Trump.
We've been waiting to see if a candidate who is iconoclast as like Trump, who is as hateful or says things that are maybe as hateful and can be a critic of Trump. If that person will still win, we don't know, but we might see with Mark Robinson.
COOPER: Eva, I mean, you've spent a long time with the swing states, do you think this -- a story like this resonates?
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the Harris campaign is eager to try to tie the former president to Mark Robinson. We're already seeing them do that tonight on social media. And it leans into a broader argument that they have been trying to make, that the former president is too extreme, that people like Mark Robinson and by extension, the Republican party is too extreme and I think it is having an effect.
So, we see them really investing in this Republicans for Harris trying to peel off these conservative voters that just cannot stomach supporting the former president. I met a voter in Vegas who has never supported a Democrat for president ever in his life and he is supporting Vice President Harris this cycle. And I asked him, why, and he said the most important issue to him is character.
And so, those are the type of voters that the Harris campaign thinks that they can reach in the wake of stories like this one.
COOPER: Matt, I mean, this is a person that former President Trump once called Martin Luther King on steroids. Do you think the former president should revoke his endorsement? Do you think it's likely that he would because the statement put out by the campaign today didn't directly address CNN's reporting on Robinson?
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yes. I mean, look, from a strategic perspective, what Donald Trump needs to do is if he's asked, address it, say if it's true, he doesn't agree with it, and try to pivot and move on.
I think at this stage, trying to withdraw an endorsement or something like that is just going to continue this story and I'll say, you know, having done politics now for almost 20 years, rarely do you see a down-ballot race impact a ballot above it.
You often see an impact from top to the bottom if you have a bad federal election year for Republican or Democratic Party, maybe down- ballot that has an impact, but very rarely do you actually see an impact up ballot. So I'm not sure how much this is truly going to impact Donald Trump's campaign in North Carolina.
Except to say, that he's got to somehow find a way to keep Republican volunteers enthused while also trying to show some distance between him and some of the obviously extreme comments and rhetoric of Mark Robinson.
Now, I'll just say one quick point. Where he stands today is not a surprise to the point you made, Anderson. I mean, we polled this race, my firm polled this race about a year ago for a different client. He was down a couple of points already. Earlier this year, he was already down by five and that's because of some of the controversial comments that the Stein campaign has been playing for the better part of a year now.
COOPER: Doug, I mean, we're monitoring the former president's event tonight just in case he weighs in on this, meanwhile, North Carolina Democratic Governor Roy Cooper just weighed in trying to -- tying Robinson to Trump as Eva was indicating, writing on social media "Donald Trump and North Carolina GOP leaders embraced Mark Robinson for years, knowing who he was and what he stood for including disrespect for women and inciting violence. They reap what they sow."
I'm wondering what you make of that?
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, Anderson, North Carolina's my home state. I've worked a few Senate races there and spoke to more than one North Carolina current elected official and a former elected official today. And I'm reminded of being in North Carolina in Chapel Hill and Raleigh, North Carolina, the day of and the day after the Access Hollywood tape came out.
Big difference though, we've had a lot of these little Access Hollywood tapes from Mark Robinson and Mark Robinson isn't Donald Trump.
Matt is right, he was probably toast before today. Now, he's just a bigger piece of toast. The problem is that this isn't about the governor's race. That race is over. Josh Stein will win.
The question is does this affect up ballot? And I think potentially it does. And I know for a fact that the Trump campaign is and has been worried that it does because not just these comments that distract Donald Trump, he obviously makes some weird comments from time to time as well.
But also this campaign has no money. It has no ground game. It can't drive out their own voters. They're not all rowing in the same direction and that's a real problem for Trump.
And I've heard this on the ground, not just for the past day or a few weeks. I've heard this months and months ago that they were worried about what would happen when the Robinson comments came out.
They were worried about what effect it might have if Donald Trump were to cut Mark Robinson loose and you can certainly understand why Trump wants to win. He cares about his own winning first and foremost, no surprise.
So that's where Republicans have put themselves in and ultimately, yes, this is a making of Donald Trump because he endorsed him. Donald Trump's endorsement doesn't determine who the nominee is, but it sure helps and, this is another example, Anderson, and I'll wrap up. I'll shut up here in a second.
This is another example of Republicans taking their own fists and saying stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself. We saw this in the Pennsylvania governor's race. We saw it in the Maryland governor's race. This cycle, last cycle, the cycle before, these kinds of candidates sink Republicans.
COOPER: Yes. Jamal, what you pointed earlier about the hypocrisy, if he had been on some porn site, you know, porn is incredibly popular in America. I don't know, anybody would really care that much. It's so contradictory, his stance on transgender issues, the attacks he's made and apparently interest on transgender people on this porn site. It's obviously -- it seems a stark contrast.
SIMMONS: Look, I think when you are saying things in public that don't hold up in your private life. That is the kind of thing when you're running for office, comes back and it hurt you in a bad way. That is the place where he is right now.
But remember, he was bad for North Carolina before this started. This is a guy who wanted a total abortion ban. He said get them down to zero, this is the guy who said he wanted to restrict birth control for women and girls. And this is a guy who said he wanted to unwind the Medicaid expansion, which affects hundreds of thousands of people in North Carolina who have healthcare because of this.
So I think the Stein campaign, wants people to focus on the fact that this is not the person you want to have giving the judgment or having the judgment to make decisions for any North Carolina family.
COOPER: Eva, I mean, do you think it's over for him? He was, as Jamal is pointing out, ten points down in the polls.
MCKEND: I would not want to be working on that campaign right now.
The trans thing is I think the most jarring thing for me, right? Because the policies that he supports and the rhetoric he espouses puts these -- this vulnerable community in danger, right?
And so, that is, I think the most jarring point of all of this. But Democrats will seize on this. They already thought that they were in a strong position in North Carolina. North Carolina to be clear, Anderson, is a purple state.
It is a state with a lot of HBCUs and so, they are investing and organizing in those spaces and this just helps. They can appeal to conservative and Republican voters who just think that this is going to be a bridge too far.
COOPER: I've also never heard of anybody going to a porn site in order to make comments. I was unaware that there are comments sections.
Doug, I want to play some of the Republican reaction today on Capitol Hill. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. RALPH NORMAN, (R-SC): Pretty sad to go this far along and then the people who supported him, all the money that he's raised and I think he needs to drop out today.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I definitely want to read what the allegations and the comments on it. I myself can't support anyone if that all turns out to be true.
REP. RICHARD HUDSON (R-NC): Well, the allegations are very concerning. My hope is that the governor can reassure them, people North Carolina, that the allegations aren't true.
REP. JIM BANKS (R-IN): Obviously disappointing.
REPORTER: Do you think he should resign, drop out of the race?
BANKS: I don't live in North Carolina, so it's up to North Carolina -- the people of North Carolina --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, it does not all but some congressional Republicans starting to distance themselves. Do you imagine that is going to increase?
HEYE: Absolutely. Richard Hudson there, who you showed, we went to college together. I've known him for a long, long time.
The outrage in the state predated this, this just brings it all further the bubble and this is why it's toxic and Republicans need to learn stop nominating, stop voting for these cartoon candidates, these Addams Family candidates who sink your chances in November. This is just the latest and most outrageous example.
COOPER: Doug Heye, thank you. Everyone else stay with us. We'll have more from the panel.
Coming up, the state of the presidential race, a slew in new polls dropped, including four for Pennsylvania, state critical to both campaigns.
Our Harry Enten is going to walk us through the latest polls. And again, we're also expecting to see vice president Harris appear live on stage with Oprah Winfrey tonight. A major campaign event in another must-win state Michigan, we'll take you there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:23:18]
COOPER: Any moment, we're expecting to see Vice President Harris appear at a major campaign event outside Detroit, hosted by Oprah Winfrey. Michigan, obviously a must-win state for her, campaign officials telling CNN, they view this as a big moment, in their words.
They're hoping that Oprah's star power helps them reach a broad range of voters. The event is being live streamed across Harris' and Winfrey's social media accounts. We'll bring you some of it once Harris takes the stage.
This comes the same day as this new national poll from the "New York Times" and Siena College has Harris and Trump tied 47 percent a piece. Coincidentally, as we mentioned, the exact same number of days until the election.
We also have four new polls on the state of the race in Pennsylvania, a must win for both campaigns. We'll have more of that in a moment.
And a short time ago, the former president spoke at an event on fighting antisemitism. That's what it was billed as, it was sponsored by Republican billionaire donor Miriam Adelson.
You may remember last month when the president praised Adelson, he said the civilian award he gave her an office, the Medal of Freedom was "actually much better" than the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest military decoration.
Today, speaking before Jewish Americans about antisemitism, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Forty-seven days from now, we're going to defeat Kamala Harris. You have to defeat Kamala Harris.
More than any other people on Earth, Israel, I believe has to defeat her. You know that, and I've never said this before. I'm thanking Miriam, more than any people on Earth, Israel has to defeat her.
I really believe that it's a disaster for Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm joined now by "Washington Post" columnist, Philip Bump and our senior data reporter, Harry Enten; and back with us, Eva McKend, Jamal Simmons, and Matt Mowers.
So, Harry, mentioned new polls out of Pennsylvania. What are they showing?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, we got a buffet, an assortment for you. You know last night, we were talking about that Quinnipiac University poll. I said that there was going to be more Pennsylvania polls. I deliver for you.
And what we see in those polling is sort of a range, right? Quinnipiac is the most friendly to Kamala Harris with a plus five, but the bottom line is, you look at all of these polls. What you see is anything from a tie in Marist up to a lead plus five, the average here is pretty good for Kamala Harris, right?
[20:25:25] COOPER: But a number of those would be within the margin of error.
ENTEN: They are within them margin of error. That's why we show all of them, and that's why I take the aggregation because that of course gives you a better idea of where the race would be.
And so, you see that range, but the bottom line is if you take the average of all of them, what you see is essentially Kamala Harris up by two or three depending on how exactly you take the average. And why is Pennsylvania so important?
Look, we've done a number of segments on Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania and the bottom line is this. If you win Pennsylvania, your chance of winning the presidency is quite high.
So, for instance, for Kamala Harris, it's 88 percent if she wins the state of Pennsylvania, if Donald Trump wins the state of Pennsylvania, it's a 94 percent chance of winning this particular election.
So, the bottom line is Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania. If you win Pennsylvania, you're probably going on to win the White House.
COOPER: But I mean, does it matter, the national issues, apparently, neck and neck.
ENTEN: I mean, look --
COOPER: Because there are a lot of people were saying earlier which is going to be ten points up nationally.
ENTEN: This is going to be one of the great questions of our time, which is, what's going to be the gap between the electoral college and the popular vote?
The large belief generally out there is that Kamala Harris has to win the popular vote by at least two points in order to win in the electoral college.
However, there was a very interesting analysis today from my dear friend Nate Cohn at the "New York Times", which actually suggests that Kamala Harris is doing particularly well in those northern battleground states better than you might think based upon the national vote.
And these polls, I think kind of proved that because in Pennsylvania, she's actually at least in the polls released today, at least matching in her national numbers, if not exceeding them.
COOPER: Eva, I mean, what do you think of these polls?
MCKEND: I think that they are still running scared is, as what I'm hearing from them. They don't want to get overconfident here, but certainly it is a good sign and it is an endorsement of the strategy that they are employing.
I think many of us in the media are frustrated because we want to be able to question the vice president. We want to be able to get a better understanding of her evolution on some of these key policy matters. But they're running a very tight ship. They're running a very disciplined operation.
Everything is very strategic. They are meeting the voters where they need to be. And I think that they are getting the results that they want to get.
COOPER: Let's quickly listen into Vice President Harris' interview with Oprah Winfrey, which is happening right now.
OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN HOST AND TELEVISION PRODUCER: ... call and then said, "Let's open the door, let's open the door and invite everybody else in" and everybody actually came.
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Organically.
WINFREY: Yes.
HARRIS: Organically, like this is the beauty of our country. You know, there's so much at stake in this election and ultimately the question before us is, what kind of country do we want to live in?
And the beauty of the democracy, as long as we can hold onto it, the beauty of democracy is each of us has the power. Each of us has the power --
WINFREY: That's right.
HARRIS: -- to answer that question.
WINFREY: That's right, everybody on this call and beyond has the power. But can I just start with this?
HARRIS: Yes, please.
WINFREY: I have to say this because in all of my private conversations, Gayle and I have said this a hundred times.
HARRIS: Yes.
WINFREY: And everybody is saying it, you all have said it, I know you have. It seems to us that something happened to you the moment Joe Biden, President Biden stepped aside and withdrew his candidacy. That a veil or something dropped and you just stepped in to your power.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
WINFREY: I mean, literally, looking at you at a speech like the week before, which was a great speech, very nice. And then, the next week, I saw you walking in the thing.
And I said, what happened to you?
HARRIS: You know, we each have those moments in our lives where it's time to step up -- WINFREY: Time to step up.
HARRIS: Time to step up, you know.
WINFREY: Well, the moment you heard -- I mean I really have been saying to people it felt like a veil dropped and you sort of stepped through that veil. Did that actually -- did you feel like that?
HARRIS: I felt a sense of responsibility, to be honest with you. And with that comes a sense of purpose, but I mean, we're all here and you all are taking time out of your busy lives, everyone here, everyone on the screen because there really is so much at stake.
You know, I have spent the majority of my career being concerned about the well-being of other people.
WINFREY: Yes.
HARRIS: As I've said, in my career as a prosecutor, I never looked at a victim or a witness and asked them, are you a Republican or a Democrat? The only thing I've asked them is, are you okay?
WINFREY: Are you okay? I know when I heard that, it touched me.
HARRIS: You know, and traveling this country and knowing what is at stake in terms of fundamental freedoms, what's at stake in terms of fighting against hate and those efforts to divide us.
And I do know that I'm in a position to do something about it. So, I felt a great responsibility and the incredible power of the people, right? Who -- and I'm not the only leader in this. We're all leaders in this. This is so much bigger than me.
It's about who we are as Americans and it's about making clear what we stand for and what we stand for is, it is about the ideals upon which we were founded, including the importance of freedom and the importance of independence and the importance of dignity and purpose.
But it is also about what we stand for in terms of our values. I think of it this way --
[20:31:10]
WINFREY: Yes, well a lot boils down to values. I just said values are on the line here.
HARRIS: It really does.
WINFREY: Yes.
HARRIS: It does. I mean, think about it, Oprah. The idea that some would suggest, and that my opponent suggests, which is that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down. Come on. The real measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up. And it's important for us --
(APPLAUSE)
WINFREY: Absolutely.
HARRIS: -- to articulate that.
WINFREY: You know, ever since the debate, we feel for our fellow citizens in Springfield. Do you not think about --
HARRIS: Yes.
WINFREY: -- the fellow citizens in Springfield, Ohio? The Haitian families, the non-Haitian families, everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of Haitian people and anybody who looks Haitian. Everybody in America feels for that and also everybody in America left, right, middle has concerns about immigration.
HARRIS: Yes. And I'm told that Justin -- Justin, where are you, in the audience. Justin?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.
WINFREY: In our audience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Madam Vice president.
HARRIS: Hi, Justin.
WINFREY: You live in Michigan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.
WINFREY: Don't you love saying hello, Madam Vice President?
(LAUGHTER)
WINFREY: What's your question? It's an immigration question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question for you is, when you become president, what would be your specific steps --
HARRIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course. What would be your specific steps to strengthening the border?
HARRIS: So it's a wonderful and important question. I -- you know my background was -- as a prosecutor and I was also the elected attorney general for two terms of a border state. So this is not a theoretical issue for me. This is something I've actually worked on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
HARRIS: I have prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns, drugs, and human beings. I take very seriously the importance of having a secure border and ensuring the safety of the American people. Sadly, where we are now can be traced most recently back to the fact that when the United States Congress, members of the Congress, including some of the most conservative Republicans, came up with a border security bill, and here's what that border security bill would have done. It would have put 1,500 more border agents at the border.
Let me tell you, those border agents are working around the clock. It would have just been about giving them some support and relief. Which is probably why the border agents actually endorsed the bill. It would have allowed us to stem the flow of fentanyl.
And I'm looking at people from all over the country here, so I don't need to tell the folks who are watching this what fentanyl has done to families, to kids in our country and the need to take seriously stemming the flow coming into our country and addressing that extraordinary and tragic issue in terms of its effect.
The bill would have allowed us to have more resources to prosecute transnational criminal organizations. And it would have been part of the solution. And Donald Trump called up those folks and said, don't put that bill on the floor for a vote. He blocked the bill. And you know why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
HARRIS: Because he'd prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem.
(APPLAUSE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Watching this now, I mean, Jamal, do you know her very well, former communications director for --
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No.
COOPER: -- Harris? An event like this, you know, is how -- like, how important is this, do you think, for her?
SIMMONS: Oh, it's very important. She started doing these moderated conversations about a year or so after she was in the White House, beginning of 2022, middle of 2022, started doing this. She did one with Keke Palmer at the Essence Festival some other ones, and she's been continuing to do them for the last couple of years.
[20:35:02]
And what happens is, she gets in the rhythm of being able to have a conversation where you've lowered the pressure on some of these big speeches, but sometimes, frankly, don't always go as well as you might want. You lower the pressure on like a big interview. But you have a conversation where you can see her personality come through.
And people respond really well to that. I think she's very comfortable in the space. And I think you'll see tonight that people will continue to think she's doing a good job.
COOPER: Eva?
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I -- just listening to her here, she's continuing to thread the needle here on this immigration issue, talking about immigrants in a compassionate matter, but also needling the former president for squashing that bipartisan border enforcement bill.
So, she has that issue, I would say, down pat, and it will be interesting to see how voters respond to that, if that's a sufficient answer for voters. But I think what was also important about this event tonight is they partnered with win with black women. They of course are an organizing force in this country.
They had that zoom call several weeks ago when it was announced that the vice president would be the candidate. More than 90,000 women tuned into that call. They raised $1.5 million in just about three hours. And black women are just going to play such an important role in this election.
So many democratic women have often said that they don't feel as though that they are invested in when it comes to them being candidates. Well, now the top of the ticket is a black woman. And so, for them to be a partner in this event tonight, I think is a really important strategic choice.
COOPER: Philip?
PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: The thing that struck me is when we went to that, that exchange, the first conversation was about the effect that individual people can have, and we were just talking about all these polls in Pennsylvania that show that it's close.
And I think one of the questions when Harris became the nominee is, was she going to be able to close the gap that had grown between Trump and Biden? We saw that yes, she was. And then the next question was, was she going to be able to extend that gap? And we haven't seen that that has happened. We haven't seen that she's taken a five, six-point national leader in these state polls, as Harry pointed out.
And so that means that with seven weeks left, the key is getting people to vote. And so when she makes those comments to that group of people, they're in that room saying, hey, it's up to you. The obvious point here is we need you to go vote. And that's what it is. This is a turnout race. It's a turnout race because these polls are close.
It's going to come down to who actually is coming out and casting a ballot over the course of the next early voting period. And then on election day, and that's what that event is focused on is focused on, making sure that they know you have to vote. This is incumbent upon you. You more than me at this point.
SIMMONS: You know, Harry, this is Harry's line of business here around the polls. But, you know, it's interesting, Phil just said something. People keep expecting her to expand her lead in a way that I think just might not hold up in our modern context. That would mean Donald Trump would have to lose support.
And he's really been like a 47 percent, 48 percent candidate. I don't know that we're ever going to see him drop down to 45 percent.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I tend to doubt it. Look, we've had national elections in this country that have been decided by single digits since 1988. It's the longest such stretch since we've had the popular vote being counted in the 1800s. But, you know, just talking about Kamala Harris's strengths as a candidate, right?
You go back two months ago when she was -- became the presumptive Democratic nominee. Her net favorability ratings were something like minus 14, minus 15 points. She has climbed all the way back. And now if you take an average of polls, her net favorability rating is actually positive. It's because of events like tonight.
The only other thing I'll mention, you know, Eva was mentioning black women. One of the more interesting sort of nuggets that we've seen in the crosstabs, we've seen in Pennsylvania, is Kamala Harris has certainly improved upon her standing with black voters overall versus what Joe Biden was doing early on in this year, but she is still falling short of Biden's benchmark in 2020.
I think one of the big questions going forward is, can she actually reach that benchmark that Biden said in 2020? Because if she does, she'll likely win this election.
COOPER: Matt, obviously, you know, Donald Trump would have loved to have had the support of Oprah Winfrey or Taylor Swift, that did not happen. How important do you think events like this actually are, whether it's reaching out to people who, you know, maybe were on the fence or going to sit on the couch or does it change anybody's mind.
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, Donald Trump will claim Oprah Winfrey endorsed him the year 2000. I don't know if you saw this campaign already. Put out that letter that she'd sent him back then, saying, we'd make a great team to run for office.
But look, of course, these are exciting moments that are meant to raise money, generate attention. But, you know, what I actually really took away from this event was where it was being held. It was held in Farmington Hills. This is a town in Oakland County, Michigan.
You know, Michigan is the state I worked on in 2016 for the Trump- Pence campaign. In fact, took Ivanka Trump to an event not too far away from where they are tonight. And what it tells me, based upon both, the fact that's with Oprah Winfrey. If you look at that audience, it's predominantly made up of women.
You bring -- you go to a place like Oakland County, this is a wealthier suburb of Detroit. They are trying to run up the score with suburban college educated women.
[20:40:01]
And at the end of the day, more than anything else, this is likely to come down to, does Donald Trump -- is Donald Trump able to improve, or does he lose compared to 2020, his numbers with educated -- college educated women? Or does he -- is he able to actually outgrow that pace of loss by gaining black and Hispanic men? And that's likely what this campaign's going to come down to at the end of the day, especially in those Rust Belt states.
COOPER: Interesting.
We're going to continue to monitor this interview for any comments about our CNN exclusive on North Carolina Republican gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson. Coming up next, back to the state of the race. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. We want to rejoin Vice President Harris's ongoing campaign appearance in Michigan with Oprah Winfrey.
HARRIS: -- you would actually blow-up inflation and invite a recession by the middle of next year.
[20:45:05]
So, when you think about the cost of living, my approach is about lifting you up. His would be about actually weakening our economy. And I feel very strongly when an individual, when a small business, when a family, when the middle class is strong, America is strong.
WINFREY: Amen to that. Amen to that.
(APPLAUSE)
WINFREY: Thank you, Shelby. Thank you, Rachel (ph) and Garrett (ph).
(APPLAUSE)
WINFREY: So, the Harris campaign kicked off the Fighting for Reproductive Freedom bus tour to support the fundamental right for women to make decisions about our own bodies. And here is a short tape on that.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I did something that nobody thought was possible. I got rid of Roe v. Wade.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After Roe v. Wade was overturned, Tennessee put forth a ban immediately that banned all abortion with no exceptions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abortion bans are not pro-life. They are pro poverty and pro-inequality.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been over two years since a five to four ruling by the Supreme Court ended Roe versus Wade, the landmark case that provided nearly 50 years of abortion rights across the United States. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our body!
ALL: Our body!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since then, abortions have been banned in over a dozen states. Many women and doctors say the limits on reproductive rights have forced them into unimaginable situations.
COOPER: We're going to just check back in with this in a bit. Jamal, I mean, an event like this, it's so interesting how campaigns have changed now and evolved. I mean, from -- I mean, Donald Trump has sort of reset the bar for, you don't have to answer the question you were asked, you can just answer the question that the state -- you can just make the statement you want to make.
And it's something I think the Harris-Walz campaign has picked up on as well and sort of has gone along with this kind of new dynamic. And certainly, like the Oprah effect on an event like this, it allows her the candidate, candidate Harris to, you know, to be comfortable to your earlier point and to just sort of have this dialogue in a way that's, you know, for fans of Oprah, for people who are curious about Kamala Harris. I mean, it's obvious why she would want to do an event like this.
SIMMONS: Yes, you know, what's changed campaigns on this even more is social media, because now we found is 50 percent of people are getting their news from scrolling it on their phones with their thumb, right? And then 25 percent of them are getting news, not just from scrolling it, but because somebody's tagged them, they've got it DM'd to them in some fashion. So they may not even be in the algorithm.
So part of the trick of the campaign and of the office is to do something that's going to be viral, it's going to make people, like, pay attention to it. We did an event when I was in the White House with the Vice President with Priyanka Chopra Jonas.
We did the event. It was great. I got a lot of complaints from some people about doing the event. Some of the older Democrats. Why are you doing this? It's not serious. She's the Vice President. That was the number one event on political event on Instagram that day. It was a Priyanka Chopra Jonas.
COOPER: It's interesting, Philip, because, you know, we saw Donald Trump do a -- because they're doing more sort of town hall style things. He did with Sarah Huckabee Sanders with -- what's her name, Tulsi Gabbard recently as well. Obviously, not quite the same production values as when Oprah is doing something but it's an effort to try to, I think, probably rein in Donald Trump a little bit and not have him meander as much, although certainly at the Huckabee event, he, you know, would meander a lot.
BUMP: Right. I mean, you know, Huckabee Sanders was both his press secretary and his sitting governor. So, you know, hopefully she, if anyone, is going to be able to do that. You know, I think, to Jamal's point, this is an era in which not only are people getting their news through social media and through sort of these fragmented channels. You know, I work for a newspaper. I'm sitting on a cable news channel. I'm cognizant of the reality of the world. But that said, it is also a reality that a lot of people are sort of isolated in their own spheres of conversation, right? Particularly on the right. I think it is a more dramatic problem on the right.
I think when you have Trump doing these things and doing these odd little podcasts and things like that, part of it is about him being comfortable in that space. Part of it is, to the point I was making earlier, that it's about engaging people and turning people out to vote.
That it's about ensuring that his folks are motivated and energized in the same way that we're seeing Kamala Harris do that tonight. I think that's a central issue. And quite frankly, the people, if you are the Harris campaign and you are trying to get your voters to come out to vote in November, it is better to do something that's going to go viral on social media with Oprah Winfrey than it is to have a piece in the Washington Post. No offense to the Washington Post.
COOPER: Thanks, everyone.
Next, we have breaking news from Kentucky, where a judge has been shot to death in his chambers. Authorities say a preliminary investigation shows that a sheriff may have killed him. A press conference just wrapped up. Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:53:53]
COOPER: We're still trying to gather some more information about a story we're about to bring you. So for right now, we're going to go back to Vice President Harris and her one-on-one interview with Oprah Winfrey. She's being asked a question about reproductive rights.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- and the family, you're looking at it.
WINFREY: Well, we appreciate so deeply you being here. And I -- we're all watching you hear that tape and those words. We know how retraumatizing that is and the strength it takes for you to be here to tell your story. And we deeply appreciate it.
And I have to ask you as her sisters, how are you coping, and what does knowing that this could have been prevented? How does that sit with you? How do you cope with that on a daily basis?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, it's heartbreaking. You know, that was my baby sister. I love my baby sister, you know. I'm beyond hurt, disappointed, I feel guilty. I wish I could have helped her, you know, because she was suffering. And we had no idea, we trusted them to take care of her, you know, and they just let her die because of some stupid abortion ban.
[20:55:09] They treated her like she was just another number. They didn't care for her as if, you know, she was their daughter or their, you know, granddaughter.
WINFREY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, and she's not here. She'll never come back.
WINFREY: Yes. And Rica (ph), what do you want to say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to say that it is very disheartening that my sister was allowed to suffer for 20 hours. She suffered. It was nothing that we could do to help her. We trusted the health care professionals to do their job and save her, but they failed her.
WINFREY: Well, I think the most powerful thing that you've said here, Ms. Chanette (ph), is that your daughter is not a statistic. She had a life. She was loved by her sisters, loved by her family, loved by those who knew her, and she's not just a statistic. And we are happy to speak her name tonight in this room, talking about what this country needs in terms of reproductive rights and freedom.
What do you want to say, Madam Vice President?
HARRIS: I'm just so sorry. And the courage that you all have shown is extraordinary, because also, you just learned about how it is that she died. And --
WINFREY: They just recently learned, yes.
HARRIS: How?
WINFREY: Yes.
HARRIS: Yes.
WINFREY: Yes.
HARRIS: And Amber's mom shared with me that the word over and over again in her mind is preventable.
WINFREY: Yes.
HARRIS: Preventable. That word keeps coming to her. And this story is a story that is sadly not the only story of what has been happening since these bans have taken place. And, you know, so the -- just to step back in terms of how we got here, the former president chose three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would overdo the protections of Roe v. Wade.
And they did as he intended. And in state after state, including yours, these abortion bans have been passed that criminalized health care providers. In a couple of states, prison for life, Oprah. Prison for life in a couple of states, for a doctor or a nurse who provides health care. And so, it seems very apparent --
WINFREY: Even when the mother's life is in danger.
HARRIS: Because here's the problem with that, here's the problem with that. So is she on death's door before you actually decide to give her help?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
WINFREY: That's right.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Is that what we're saying?
WINFREY: Yes. That you've got to prove your death door (ph).
HARRIS: Like, literally, a doctor or a nurse has to say she might die any minute. Better give her now care. Because otherwise I might go to prison for life in some quite cases. Think about what we're doing in terms of saying that certain people who are in these state houses and then starting with the former president of the United States think they're in a better position than a doctor or a nurse to determine when their patient needs medical care.
This literally in Amber's story highlights the fact that among everything that is wrong with these bans and what has happened in terms of the overturning of Wade -- Roe v Wade, it's a healthcare crisis. It's a healthcare crisis that affects the patient and the profession.
And going back to Hadley's (ph) story and Hadley (ph), you've been so remarkable in telling your story and being so strong in the way you do it. And both of these stories really, I mean, the courage -- free it out of pain.
COOPER: The image froze there. Vice President Kamala Harris speaking with Oprah Winfrey at this live stream event. Jamal, we were talking about the, you know, the changing nature of a campaign. I mean, it's something like this is it's a way for Kamala Harris to have extended conversations without going through a formal interview where she's going to be, you know, there's going to be a lot of pushback fact checking but humanizes her in a way and allows her to speak in a very emotional way.
SIMMONS: Absolutely. In a moment like this, you really see one of the core strengths of Kamala Harris as a public official. She spent years as a district attorney. She would sit and meet with families. I saw her do this. We were in Buffalo, New York, after the Tops Market shooting, and she sat with the families from that shooting.
And she looks them in the eye, and she talks to them. It's a really personal way that is -- that really grabs the people in the room and really makes everybody know that she's there for them and she's going to fight for them when this is over. COOPER: Yes. I want to thank everybody on the panel tonight for being with us.
Thanks to everybody for watching. I'll be back tomorrow night. I hope you join me.
The news continues right now. The Source with our Kaitlan Collins starts now.
