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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Rally in Key Battleground State Pennsylvania, New Polling Shows Trump Advantage in Sun Belt States; Interview with James Carville and Mary Matalin on the Race for the White House. Aired: 8- 8:30p ET
Aired September 23, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ... sees her other son again, if at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (on camera): And just to put today's death toll in perspective, the death toll 492 with 93 women and children among them. That's just a little less than half of the entire death toll for the 34-day war between Hezbollah and Israel in 2006 -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Absolutely horrific what is happening and of course, the repercussions and you talk about the women and children.
Ben, thank you very much and thanks to all of you for being with us. AC360 begins now.
[20:00:44]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, breaking news and a possible campaign stop at the southern border for Vice President Harris as new polling gives them a boost in Arizona and two other battleground states.
Also tonight, she says, yes, to a second debate, the former president says, no. Political power couple James Carville and Mary Matalin join us for their take on the campaign.
Plus, the latest from Israel and Lebanon after the deadliest Israeli airstrikes on Hezbollah targets in a generation.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
The former president is holding the second of two events today in Western Pennsylvania, his trip through the Commonwealth shadowed by a mobile billboard from the Democratic National Committee reading, "There's no debate. Donald Trump's a chicken."
The message alluding to his decision to opt out of a second debate with Vice President Harris, the faceoff would air on October 23rd on CNN.
Again, she's already said yes and invited him to do the same.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Meet me on the debate stage. Let's have another debate. There is more to talk about and the voters of America deserve to hear the conversations that I think we should be having on substance, on issues, on policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, his answer now is no. And here's how he justified it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She's done one debate. I've done two. It's too late to do another. I'd love to in many ways, but it's too late. The voting is cast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: By that he means early voting, apparently though it's hard to see why that would preclude debating again, the campaigning after all goes on until election day. It doesn't stop when the early vote is cast.
In any event, he's also again calling the legitimacy of the vote into question, posting this on social media quoting now, "The Democrats are talking about how they're working so hard to get millions of votes for Americans living overseas. Actually, they're getting ready to cheat."
Now, he's referring seems to a program that's been around since the 1980s for getting absentee ballots to American service members and Americans living overseas. That happens all the time.
Quoting again from "The Post," he is saying without any evidence that it amounts to stealing our military votes. The former president is also making news with his answer to this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARYL ATTKISSON, "FULL MEASURE": If you're not successful this time, do you see yourself running again in four years?
TRUMP: No, I don't. No. I think that that will be -- that will be it. I don't see that at all. I think that -- hopefully we're going to be successful.
ATTKISSON: Mr. President, thank you for the interview. I appreciate it.
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: His tone there notwithstanding. New polling tonight from "The New York Times" and Siena College shows him competitive or better in three sunbelt states, leading the vice president in Arizona and ahead, but within the margin of error, meaning no clear leader in Georgia and North Carolina.
No clear leader either nationally in CNN's latest poll of polls, which shows the vice president ahead by three, but its polling in the border issue, which could be factoring to a decision the Harris campaign is just now weighing namely whether to go there late this week. We'll have more on that shortly.
New developments as well in the case of the Republican who wants to be North Carolina's governor, but also once referred to himself as a Black Nazi on a pornography forum, where he also said he'd like it if slavery was brought back and he would like to have some slaves.
Mark Robinson, that's his name. Over the weekend, several senior staff members of his quit. One of the state's Republican US Senator Thom Tillis told CNN he would not be campaigning for him.
And late today, Republican Senator and Vice Presidential nominee, JD Vance would not answer when pressed on whether the former president still supports the man he once called Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. on steroids.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JD VANCE (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: As I've said, that is Mark Robinson's case to make to the people of North Carolina. I'm not going to make it for him and the people in North Carolina, they get to be the judges of whether they believe him or not. It's really that simple.
Let's focus on the real issues that affect North Carolina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So let's talk about it, starting with CNN's Priscilla Alvarez on that significant potential change of Vice President Harris' campaign schedule. So, what are you learning about this potential trip to the border?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, some campaign officials remain concerned that the former President Donald Trump, as you laid out, is still leading on the issue of immigration and border security. But sources tell me they also see an opportunity. They think that they can start to close that gap.
And so, they are weighing a potential visit to the US-Mexico border when she is slated to visit Arizona on Friday.
Now, of course, the vice president has visited the border as vice president, she's also done so as California senator and the attorney general. And sources tell me that no final decision has been made yet on this potential stop, but it is certainly significant because it is telling of the campaign see in the issue of border security continuing to crop up as a top issue among voters.
[20:05:14] And if she were to go, she would go at a time when border crossings are low, the lowest they've been since 2020. Of course, the administration has citing executive action over the summer for the plummeting of those border crossings and it would give her the opportunity to talk about that in battleground Arizona, where again, as you mentioned, former President Donald Trump continues to hold a lead in those polls.
So, this would be a notable stop if she were to make it, still significant though, that she's going to Arizona when the polling is so tight.
COOPER: Yes, Priscilla Alvarez, thanks.
CNN's Danny Freeman is at the Trump event in the Western Pennsylvania town of Indiana. So what was the former president's message to Pennsylvania voters today?
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the theme of today when it comes to former President Trump's trip to Western Pennsylvania was the economy, the economy, the economy, he comes to this particular rally.
He only started speaking maybe a little over ten minutes ago. And at times he has spoken about inflation, yes; Afghanistan, and other issues that he and the campaign are trying to been drill down against Vice President Harris.
However, he has talked about the last debate that he had with Vice President Harris, complaining about how the moderators treated him. He also said that Vice President Harris, he felt was terrible at the debate.
He also criticized Vice President Harris' interview with Oprah that took place the past few days as well, noting that he and Oprah used to be close.
But earlier in the day, former President Trump actually made a rare off-the-record stop when it comes to a grocery store and he actually paid for a woman's groceries at the store in front of cameras, really making it an opportunity to comment on the state of inflation in this particular country at this moment.
Before that, he also held a roundtable with farmers and he was using that opportunity to talk about his ambitious tariff plans at one point, actually threatening the company, John Deere, saying that he would put 200 percent tariffs on, "Everything that you want to sell into the United States," if the company moves production to Mexico.
So we'll see if he continues on that economic message tonight so far at this rally in Indiana -- Anderson.
COOPER: And there's another Trump campaign event that'll take place in Pennsylvania, right?
FREEMAN: Yes, that's right, Anderson, our own Alayna Treene, she actually confirmed earlier this evening that we now know former President Trump intends to go back to Butler, Pennsylvania on October 5th.
We knew that he had been planning to go back to Butler since he was shot at that rally back in July, but we didn't know specific details. Now, were learning he's going back there on October 5th and I'll just note, Anderson that particular event is particularly important to a lot of Trump supporters here in Pennsylvania.
I've spoken to them, many folks who have said to me that they've actually -- determined that they wanted to volunteer, step up and actually help out the campaign specifically because they were potentially at that rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
It has been galvanizing, especially for Trump supporters here in Western Pennsylvania -- Anderson.
COOPER: Danny Freeman, thanks very much.
Joining us now is Ashley Etienne, Vice President Harris' former communications director; CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten; also Republican strategist Doug Heye; and Ana Navarro. Ana is a Harris supporter.
So, let's talk about the new polling.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, I love polling.
COOPER: It looks good for Trump.
ENTEN: It looks good for Trump, but I think it's part of a larger trend, you know, last week we were discussing those Great Lake battleground states -- Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. Those polls looked good for Kamala Harris.
And indeed, if you take an average across those three states, Kamala Harris has a small advantage, a two-point advantage.
You look across those sunbelt battleground states, though I think there are a lot of Democrats saying in oh, these polls, they're too good for Trump, blah, blah, blah.
The bottom line is, even when you average across all the polls, not just polls that come out today, you look across the sun sunbelt battleground states -- Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina, on average, Donald Trump is ahead by a point and a half.
And I think this speaks to a larger issue that the Harris campaign has, which is she seems to be doing worse than Joe Biden did four years ago in states in which the Democratic coalition is highly reliant on voters of color.
So, in North Carolina and Georgia, that would be African-Americans, out in Arizona, that would be Hispanics. She is behind his pace on with those particular voters. She's holding her own with White voters. And I think that's in large part why she is holding her own in the Great Lakes up in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, because the Democratic coalition is wider. COOPER: You are saying -- so with Black -- is it Black men or Black women?
ENTEN: It's Black men in particular who she is struggling with. She's also particularly struggling among younger Black voters.
This is something that we've seen in the polling, which is that among young voters overall. Yes, she is doing better than Joe Biden was at the beginning of the year, just before Joe Biden dropped out of the race? But she's doing significantly worse than Joe Biden did four years ago.
So it's a very interesting sort of different coalition one in which the electoral map at this point is still at least a little bit undetermined.
COOPER: Ashley, why do you think she's not doing well with those groups that Harry was talking about?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: Well, I can think it's actually still quite early. I mean, the polls are a little all over the place.
I always caution over-investing polls, especially at this time because there was never a poll that showed in 2016 that Donald Trump was going to win.
But in addition to that, what you're really looking at it this stage is the trend line. She continues to trend up, close the gap with many of these key constituencies and Donald Trump remains flat. In fact, he's still at 50 percent unfavorable. I mean, that's incredibly high.
So I think there's still a lot of opportunities for the vice president, but she's got a lot of room to make up for, a lot of room to grow, but she's got to accelerate the pace.
[20:10:34]
COOPER: Doug, I mean, as the now -- the Republican Governors Association, they pulled financial support from Mark Robinson in North Carolina, several senior staffers have stepped down.
Obviously, I mean, he's got nothing else to do so. I assume he's just going to stay in the race, but as -- is this thing, I mean, is it over for him?
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think the race was probably over before Thursday's revelation. Certainly after the KFILE revelations on Thursday. The race went from being on life support to being officially declared dead.
And I think there are two reasons for that: One is, what these staffers who have left, you were not really on the A Team if you were looking at the Mark Robinson campaign. There were a lot of very smart professional people who decided to stay away because they knew there was trouble coming. Whoever Robinson is able to bring on if anybody now, wouldn't be the A Team, they'd probably be the Q, R, or S Team. And it doesn't matter because the race is over.
What does matter is whether or not now this is going to have an impact on the presidential race and it certainly will have an impact to down ballot for the counsel of states and there's a targeted congressional seat in North Carolina, one as well.
That's why North Carolinians are nervous. It is why Republicans in Washington are nervous. They've had to concede a gubernatorial seat. Bad enough, but this could have much bigger implications.
COOPER: First Lady Melania Trump has been pretty much out of the public eye for most of this campaign, obviously. She showed up briefly at the Republican Convention. She didn't speak there.
She did speak at two political fundraisers for the Log Cabin Republicans, which is a gay group. It's been disclosed now that she was paid more than $237,000.00 of just one of those events.
And what's sort of unusual is the president of the Log Cabin told CNN earlier this month that the group did not put up the money for her to speak and the disclosure form did not give any more information about the source of the payment.
It didn't say whether or not he knew about the money, but as far as I know. Does it make sense? I mean, why is she -- I understand, there's a lot of grift in this family, but why is she receiving this money? You know, she is the former first lady, you would think there are some things she might do for a larger issue other than just getting paid?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Frankly being married to Donald Trump, I'm not sure I blame her for trying to get as much money as she can for putting up with him and pretending to be part and parcel of this.
Look, she's obviously a full participant in the Trump family grift. Just this -- in the last few days, we have heard about Donald Trump selling crypto. Donald Trump selling collectible coins. Melania Trump, with this memoir book, which is about this thick.
And now, she's selling Christmas ornaments for $90.00 each, cheap Christmas ornaments for $90.00 each.
It's really, I find that incredibly tacky and unseemly because the people that they are preying on. And when I say, they, I mean, Trumps writ large because they're all into this grift, are the poor people, are their supporters, their followers, who they are using the pay for their luxuries and to pay for their money.
But it is tacky that supposedly people who have this much money are out there turning Mar-a-Lago and turning this campaign into the Home Shopping Network. It is frankly tacky.
COOPER: Harry, just in terms of the numbers, I mean, if this polling holds up, I mean, do you think it is early to Ashley's point of view?
ENTEN: I mean, I think Republicans thought it was early last week when those polls up in the Great Lakes were looking good for Kamala Harris. I think there are a lot of Democrats who might argue it looks early.
Now, look, we still have, you know, well over a month ago. Yes. Things could definitely change at this particular point going forward, but the bottom line is this has been one of the steadiest races on record, right?
If you were to ask me a month ago, who was ahead in the national polls, I would have said Kamala Harris was slightly ahead. I would've said she was slightly ahead in those Great Lake battleground polls.
But the bottom line is this race, Anderson, is the closest that I've ever seen. And you can see it so well on the electoral map, right?
Let's just say that we believe the polling for a second and say we're going to assign each of the states to the person who is the polling leader, even if the lead is very, very small. What do we get? We get Kamala Harris with 276 electoral votes to Donald Trump's 262. That would be the closest race since 2000, right, in terms of the electoral college.
And of course that map is because Kamala Harris holds in those great lake battleground states, while Donald Trump does well along the sunbelt.
[20:15:09]
But here's the thing to keep in mind. If you were to look at this map right now and apply the errors -- the polling errors that occurred in 2020, right? When the polling underestimated Donald Trump, he'd win and all of those swing states right? He'd win in those Great Lake battleground states, for example.
But if you were to apply the error that occurred in 2022 when the polling actually underestimated Democrats Kamala Harris would win and all those swing states. That's what we're talking about.
COOPER: That's what you're showing, that poll right there is --
ENTEN: That poll --
COOPER: That map --
ENTEN: That map, is if the polls are exactly correct and what I'm telling you, Anderson, is the polling is rarely exactly correct.
We have a margin of error. It's there for a reason and the bottom line is at this particular point, either candidate could win this election rather easily.
COOPER: Ashley, do you think next week's vice presidential debate matters much for either? I mean, for either candidate, for either side? ETIENNE: I definitely actually do, I believe that Walz is on the ticket because he's going to enable or sort of engage voters that are those disaffected Republican voters, Independent voters, those Democrats that lean more right.
I mean, that's his primary job on this ticket is to engage those folks. Get them activated, get them galvanized, and excited about this ticket. So, he's got to actually achieve that while at the same time undermining JD Vance and confidence in him, which he's already done himself. So, there's not a whole lot of work that he has to do there.
But I definitely think that he is bridging this cultural divide with these reporters that I mean, excuse me, with these voters that Democrats have had trouble turning out in the last two election cycles. So, that's his primary job, and that's going to be his primary audience. So yes, it actually--it does matter.
COOPER: Ana, I just want to play something that the former president said at his rally tonight about what would happen if Harris wins the election?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I mean, somebody, I heard the other day, pretty smart person. And you think about it and it could be true. They said if we don't win this election, there may never be another election in this just country, it could happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: How do you interpret that? I mean, by the way, is he quoting himself because I feel like he said that before. I mean in various ways.
NAVARRO: I feel like you're right. I mean, I feel like he has told us that he would be a dictator for one day, which is a little scary. I feel like he has told us that if he wins, there's never going to be a need for another election.
And so, I guess this is recycling the same point. Don't ask me to interpret Donald Trump, Anderson, frankly, I don't speak Trump. I think the man is talking gibberish and makes absolutely no sense. I really don't know how any American can go and stand in a rally for hours and hours to hear what's like --
I might as well be reading Dr. Seuss because that makes a hell of a lot more sense than anything that comes out of Donald Trump's mouth and frankly, given all the things he says, about Hannibal Lecter, and sharks, and batteries, and windmills. Him threatening that there's not going to be any more elections is one of the lesser stupid things he says.
COOPER: All right, thanks to everybody, by the way, I read Dr. Seuss pretty much every day these days and it's quite enjoyable.
Coming up next, James Carville and Mary Matalin on their new documentary, living life as a famously bipartisan political couple, and of course, we'll talk to them about the state of the race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Every minute I think about who's going to win is a minute I'm not thinking of how we can win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also tonight, with the race in Georgia as close as it is, were joined by the former Democratic candidate for governor there, Stacey Abrams.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:23:13]
COOPER: The former president speaking tonight just northeast of Pittsburgh, his second Pennsylvania stop of the day. Moments ago as you heard, he raised the possibility that a Harris victory could be the country's last ever election.
He cited, and I quote, "somebody I heard the other day. I mean, a pretty smart person".
Also tonight, breaking news, Vice President Harris, weighing a trip to the southern border on Friday.
Plus, new polling and much more.
We are going to get perspective now from the husband and wife team of Mary Matalin and James Carville, they're the focus of a new CNN Films Documentary airing October 5th, 7:00 PM Eastern titled, "Carville: Winning Is Everything Stupid".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I want to start with you with just quick polls, NBC, CBS both released national polls showing vice president leading nationally "New York Times"-Siena poll shows former president ahead in sun belt states, Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina. When you see these numbers what do you think?
CARVILLE: You know, I say this, it sounds like, the polls kind of say all kinds of different things. Just think of it, in this century, I learned maybe 2008, all polls showed a really tight race, 2000 was very tight, 2004 was really tight, 2012 was really tight, 2016 was clearly a lot tighter.
There's been a public average of somewhere like two percent.
COOPER: I mean, Trump underperformed in those 2016 and --
CARVILLE: Right, and something will break one way or the other, but I don't think that we're good sense of this through polling in -- we'll wait and see but it hasn't changed a whole lot, it really hasn't.
COOPER: What is it -- your sense that who's winning? What's your sense right now?
CARVILLE: You know, every day I think about who's going to win, every minute I think about who's going to win, is a minute I'm not thinking of how we can win.
And I just can't, of course, like everybody else, I've seen the polls. I've talked to people about them. But if Harris does one, two, three, she can't win; if she doesn't do one, two, three, she can lose. And that's honestly the best I can come up with.
[20:25:10]
COOPER: What did you think of your former boss, Dick Cheney, endorsing Harris?
MARY MATALIN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I love that. Dick Cheney has turned from Darth Vader to Captain America.
Like last night, Nancy Pelosi's people -- like we love Dick Cheney. I'm the one who drove him to 11 percent as Darth Vader.
I have friends on all sides of this. And that's -- who with deep convictions and that's as it should be, and that's why I say everybody should quit listening to opinions because there's just as many of them as other things. And I am just like think for yourself.
COOPER: Why -- I mean, when you look at just the last couple of months, you have Donald Trump talking about Haitians eating cats and dogs, his candidate in North Carolina you know, revealed is talking about himself as a Black Nazi on a porn site.
He brought a 9/11 conspiracy theorist to 9/11 memorial ceremonies. Why do you think it's this close?
MATALIN: I think it's more than close. Of course, it's close. You just said it was close.
CARVILLE: But it's close in the poll and I'm not convinced that is going to be close on election day. I'll say that if there's seven swing states, the least, most least likely scenario is it breaks four- three.
It always gets, and again, every race other than maybe 2008, has been close right up to election day.
And if -- I could be wrong, but it's going to break in one direction or the other. I really believe that and most of the time, these elections do that.
And I don't like to predict elections. I would just say it just doesn't feel like a race that Harris is going to lose, but that's just the feeling. That's just a feeling.
COOPER: As much as some Democrats want this to be race by the prosecutor versus a felon is in your opinion, James, is it still the economy stupid. CARVILLE: I think it is and I think that she has wide opening because Trump is saying you've got nothing to lose. Everything is terrible. I don't think -- I think people do have something to lose.
I think people, most people who are working, people have jobs. I don't know how to tell people this, but your 401(k) to the extent you have one you're probably doing a little better.
And I think he set up this dichotomy. You've got nothing lose. So, you ought to try all of these tariffs and mass deportations which everybody says would have horrifically negative impact on economic growth.
And I think that she's set up to say, you have something to lose, you have something to protect. We can do better, but we certainly don't want to go back and I think she's got a giant opening. I hope she takes it. I really do.
MATALIN: But he is denying that Trump sets her up to say a lot of things. The problem is she says nothing unless she can serve salad dressing on it, and she hasn't said a thing.
COOPER: I want to play a clip from the documentary that you just talked about. Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATALIN: Kino is now my travel guide, that's if she needs this our picture, brother.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They both passionately love their country, they both passionately love politics, they're both really expert and they are students of the game, but on different sides.
They have such a famous, I know it's like a cliche, such a famous mixed marriage. She's a devout Republican, he's a reptile and yet they've made it work over the years.
MATALIN: I'm really a conservative. He's really a liberal.
CARVILLE: There's three things I ain't changing. I ain't changing my wife. I'm not changing sexual orientation and I'm not changing political parties. We're going to go to the house with what we've got here, okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a deep love and a deep respect. There's no question. And the secret I believe, what do I know? But secret, I believe to their marriage is they don't talk about politics.
COOPER: What is it like living with you two?
MATALIN: Friday night, if we work with you, we'll probably be having a good stiff drink, which we're about to go do right now anyways.
COOPER: All right, I'll let you go do that Mary, thank you James Carville, thank you.
CARVILLE: You bet.
COOPER: I know, I'd like to join them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you get sick of people asking you, how do you live together? Because there's a lot of folks who have --you, these dynamics in their families and they find it hard.
CARVILLE: Yes, we get a pretty good one.
MATALIN: It is hard.
CARVILLE: If we talk politics --
MATALIN: Who are we to advise on this. We can't -- I was 40, he was 49 when we got married. That's not a conventional marriage.
I got accidentally pregnant at 42, that's not conventional. So who are we to say? And also, I don't want to think like him and he doesn't want to think like me.
If two people think the same, than they have a redundancy in their marriage. There's nothing redundant in this liaison that we have.
CARVILLE: You know, since the dawn of time.
COOPER: That's what you say, liaison.
MATALIN: I like to keep it like that.
COOPER: How long have you been married for?
CARVILLE: So, 1993, I've got 34.
COOPER: Calling it a liaison still?
MATALIN: Okay, Anderson, that's what keeps the marriage healthy. If I can think of it as a liaison from which I can flee.
COOPER: New Orleans liaison.
CARVILLE: You know, the most creative people in the world since the dawn of time have tried to explain romance, and they are still trying to explain it.
I said, I get it, we're going to be able to explain it in one movie, it's probably not going to happen. If Shakespeare couldn't do it, then you know. Who else can do -- why -- how can we do it?
COOPER: Before you go, what do you think the next 43 days are like? In terms of craziness, like --
CARVILLE: It's of this entire cycle things have happened that we couldn't imagine. That we -- how many times did we start the day, or start -- you start the news at night. Who could have thought this was going to happen? Something tells me something else is going to happen. I don't know what it is, but the idea we got 42 days to go, six weeks, this is a sprint to the finish.
I think there's going to -- there's another plot twist coming here. I'm just not good enough to tell you what it is.
COOPER: I got to just ask, Bernie Sanders on this program, and it's in the film, called you a hack.
CARVILLE: Right.
COOPER: You kind of owned that. You kind of just took it as a pun.
CARVILLE: I remember, just so, what happened was, when he did that, I think it was you.
COOPER: Yes.
CARVILLE: Don't see it then.
COOPER: Yes, yes.
CARVILLE: And Luke Russell (ph) texted me the thing, and I said, oh my God, how could I get this lucky? I mean, oh geez, oh yes, I'm a hack.
COOPER: But, I mean, so he called you a hack, I mean, and then you went to Matt (ph) on, you know, President Biden saying you think it was time for -- to go. Do you ever worry about the stuff you say? I would be up nights --
CARVILLE: No.
COOPER: I would be up nights sweating after if I said some of the stuff you said.
CARVILLE: I've been in the public eye for 32 years now. I have never had to say, if I said something that offended someone, I want you to truly know that I never meant it. I say controversial stuff. Sometimes I say things intentionally to provoke the conversation, but I've never had to come back and say, if I offended someone, I'm sorry. Sometimes I offend people, but actually intended to offend people. That's different.
COOPER: Thank you for letting me be part of your liaison for --
CARVILLE: Thank you. You've been a big --
COOPER: I appreciate it.
CARVILLE: You've been a big part of my life for a long time actually.
MATALIN: Yes.
CARVILLE: Actually, we're glad to be on here. Thank you, sir. COOPER: James Carville and Mary Matalin, thank you.
CARVILLE: Thank you very much. Thank you.
COOPER: Again, the new film is called, "Carville: Winning is Everything, Stupid." It airs Saturday, October 5th at 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Coming up, we're going to talk about the close race in Georgia with someone who knows the terrain very well, Stacey Abrams, a former legislator narrowly lost the 2018 gubernatorial election there. She joins us to talk about the final weeks of the campaign and what impact the state's controversial elections board may have.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:37:14]
COOPER: Tomorrow, the former president appears in Georgia, and sources say he also plans to attend this weekend's biggest college football matchup, Georgia and Alabama. This comes as the New York Times/Siena College Poll shows a close race in Georgia among likely voters. He leads by three points, 47 percent to 44 percent. The lead is within the margin of error, meaning no clear leader.
Tensions surrounding the election could be felt today during a public meeting of the Georgia Election Board. Two members of the Republican controlled board defended their controversial new rule for requiring election officials to hand count the number of ballots cast on election day.
A lot of election officials, Republicans and Democrats, say it could inject chaos into tabulating the results on the day. One Republican said of the lone Democrat on the board, you are creating a conspiracy based off an assumption.
I'm join now by Stacey Abrams, former state legislator and Democratic gubernatorial candidate in Georgia. She's also the author of a new children's book, her third, "Stacey Speaks Up," which goes on sale tomorrow. Does this new polling concern you in Georgia?
STACEY ABRAMS (D), FORMER GEORGIA GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: Not at all. Georgia is a purple state, meaning, this is a competitive state, and the lead is going to swap back and forth depending on how you model the voters. The winner will be the one who takes the time to cultivate voters, to turn those voters out, and to explain how their lives will be made better. And that is what Kamala Harris is doing every time she comes to Georgia.
And what, unfortunately, I think for Republicans, Donald Trump has been very woefully poor at doing because he spent so much time arguing about his past and whining about what's happening now that he has no real plan for their futures.
COOPER: The -- obviously, it was very close with Biden. You helped a lot getting people -- getting out the vote there. Are you doing the same kind of work now?
ABRAMS: We are, but what I think it's always important to remember about Georgia was that it was a 10-year plan, but it was a community effort. And so you've got organizations across the state that are doing work that are touching those communities that have been left out in years past.
They're activating communities that need to know that their voices should be heard and that are talking about the issues that are so incredibly important. Issues like housing, issues like student debt. And so, across the state, we have activated community groups, activated organizations that have been hard at work for quite some time, and we're going to keep working until we get Kamala Harris elected.
COOPER: We've been reporting for this Georgia elections board. I think a lot of people, you know, their eyes kind of glaze over at, like, things like this. But this is important because this idea of kind of an insider threat, the idea of actually having officials who are, you know, fully on, you know, just Trump supporters and are there to, you know, throw a wrench in as much as they can.
ABRAMS: I think what we saw in 2020 and what we need to understand that, voter suppression has three things. Can you register and stay on the rolls? Can you cast a ballot? And does your ballot get counted? This is not one single issue. This is one of the issues they have put in place.
[20:40:04]
Because of the horrific bills that were signed by Governor Kemp, SB 202, in 2021, SB 189 this year. They've put a series of obstacles to counting those ballots in place, including mass voter challenges that are happening, regardless of the party. It is a terrible thing to do --
COOPER: Right. It's like 25,000 or something in Georgia, I think, just recently.
ABRAMS: I think it's actually up to about 45,000.
COOPER: 45,000, OK.
ABRAMS: And so we know that when you challenge a voter's right to participate, especially for voters who show up every four years, you scare them out of participation. You put -- you have a chilling effect. Well, that mass voter challenge is being layered by the rule they passed a few weeks ago, which is the one that allows election workers to -- not election workers, allows a member of a county election board to de-certify or refuse to certify an election.
So you have chaos for election workers around who gets to vote, then chaos around whether the election gets certified. And now you have to do a hand count of the ballots. Not of the actual answers, but just the number of ballots. Well, in Gwinnett, Fulton, and DeKalb County, our three largest counties, you're talking about 400,000, 500,000, 350,000 plus, and you only get three people per precinct to do this count.
That's a state of 11 million people, about 4.5 million votes, if not more. That's chaos in the system, and it's intentional. It's designed to undermine confidence to create chaos and to put election workers in a position where they cannot, in good conscience, get to the result, which is to tell the people of Georgia what we decided.
COOPER: I want to ask you about your new children's book, "Stacey Speaks Up." It's about a young girl who uses her voice to make a difference in her school. What -- why -- this is your third book. I mean, what's it like writing a children's book?
ABRAMS: It's so much fun, but my mother gave me the name, but the Stacey stories have really tracked issues and lessons I want young people to understand. And with Stacey speaks up, she's grappling with the issue of school hunger, of child hunger.
Unfortunately, in the state of Georgia. One in every five children experiences hunger. We have one of the highest poverty rates among children. And unfortunately, our governor has refused to accept a summer EBT, accept money to fund school lunches during the summer.
This book preceded that decision, but for me, it's, emblematic of how important it is for us to understand the issue of child hunger, but also empathy and advocacy. I want young people to know that even if they see something is unfair, they have the ability to intercede. She stands up for her friends, a young kid who can't get lunch.
And instead of just bemoaning the fact that it happened, she works to try to make a change. And she speaks up and, you know, when you do, when we find our voices, good things can happen.
COOPER: Stacey Abrams, thank you so much.
ABRAMS: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: I appreciate it. I look forward to reading the book to my kids. "Stacey Speaks Up," the new children's book is out tomorrow.
Coming up, the deadliest day of Israeli strikes in Lebanon since the war in 2006. More strikes may be coming. Our Jeremy Diamond has the latest from the region.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:41]
COOPER: Late word tonight from Hamas that one of its field commanders was killed in today's massive strikes in Lebanon. Lebanon's health ministry says at least 492 people are dead after Israel says it struck about 1,600 of what it says were Hezbollah assets, and Israeli military officials say the operation is not over.
Jeremy Diamond has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Israeli airstrikes battering southern and eastern Lebanon. It is the most intense Israeli bombardment of Lebanon since the 2006 war, and the deadliest. Hundreds were killed and many more injured, as the Israeli military said it targeted Hezbollah weapons depots and rocket launchers.
Meanwhile, Israeli air defenses springing into action as Hezbollah fired more than 200 rockets and drones at Israel, targeting the city of Haifa and aiming further south than usual. At least two rockets hitting the West Bank, more than 60 miles south of the Lebanese border and just east of Tel Aviv.
As Israeli fighter jets carried out some 1,300 airstrikes today, the country's leaders say they are deliberately escalating hoping to change the equation.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translation): I promised to change the security balance, the balance of power in the north. This is exactly what we're doing. We're dismantling thousands of rockets and missiles aimed at Israeli cities and citizens.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Lebanese officials say this is simply Israeli aggression.
ZIAD MAKARY, LEBANESE INFORMATION MINISTER (through translation): The continuing Israeli aggression on Lebanon is a war of extermination in every sense of the word, and a destructive plan aimed at destroying Lebanese villages and towns and eliminating green areas.
DIAMOND (voice-over): In Lebanon, Israel's new escalatory strategy is pushing thousands to flee their homes. As the Israeli military sent mass text messages, including to some residents of the Lebanese capital, and interrupted radio broadcasts, urging residents in southern and eastern Lebanon to evacuate.
In Lebanon's Beqaa Valley --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): This warning is focused on the villages in the Beqaa Valley.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Residents were given just two hours notice before Israeli jets began hitting targets, including homes where the Israeli military says Hezbollah is storing rockets and weapons.
[20:50:04]
As smoke engulfed swaths of Lebanon, many now fear this is just the beginning, as the prospect of all-out war now looms larger than ever.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Jeremy Diamond joins us now from Haifa. So, what more is the IDF saying about the strikes?
DIAMOND (on-camera): Well, Anderson, the Israeli military says that they hit a rocket launch of facilities as well as weapons depots holding rockets, drones, long-range cruise missiles, and you can see in many of the videos of these strikes that there were indeed many secondary explosions, indicating that the Israeli military was hitting some of its targets at least.
They are also claiming tonight that those secondary explosions caused some of the hundreds of casualties that we have seen across Lebanon tonight. Now, we have no way of knowing how many of the casualties could potentially be tied to those secondary explosions.
What is clear though, Anderson, is that today, the Israeli military took this conflict to a new and very deadly level. The Israeli military clearly trying to escalate this conflict to try and get Hezbollah to back down from its rocket attacks on northern Israel. Anderson?
COOPER: Jeremy Diamond, be careful. Thank you.
Still ahead, what the unfounded claims about Haitians in Springfield, Ohio are doing to that community. Our Gary Tuchman spoke with some Haitian children and their parents, next.
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[20:56:03]
COOPER: Moments ago, the former president weighed in again on Springfield, Ohio. As you know, he's repeatedly smeared the city's Haitian community, saying falsely that they're taking and eating people's cats and dogs. Tonight, he accused Vice President Harris of, he says, illegally flooding American communities with half a million migrants. Then he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They will never be the same. They will never be. Do you think Springfield will ever be the same? I don't think. The fact is, and I'll say it now, you have to get him the hell out. You have to get him out. I'm sorry.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: That prompted some of the crowd to start chanting, "Send Them Back." Over the weekend, our Gary Tuchman went to Sunday services in Springfield to talk with Haitian and Haitian American families.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The first Haitian Evangelical Church of Springfield, Ohio, is less than a year old. The Sunday service is vibrant, a reflection of the Haitian community that has regarded Springfield as a great place to live. At the same time, in another room --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Halleluiah. TUCHMAN (voice-over): -- children, ranging from toddlers to teens, gather to pray and play with a youth pastor who encourages the young people to talk about a tough subject.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you feel about what happened in Springfield about what they say about immigrants --
TUCHMAN (voice-over): And the common sentiment? These three words.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you feel about --
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Alicia (ph) is 10 years old. She's in sixth grade. She was born in the United States. Her father is Sean (ph). He moved to the U.S. after the devastating 2010 Haiti earthquake. They are both upset at what's been said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It kind of made me feel a little bit sad, a little bit of angry.
TRUMP: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating -- they're eating the pets of the people that live there.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): There is no basis for what the former president said, and it's very upsetting and humiliating to many of the children here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most Haitians came here for a better life, so I think they have to stay strong and don't let the things that Trump says get to them. Just stay strong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good job.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Wood is 13 years old, in 8th grade. He was born in the U.S. but moved back to Haiti before his first birthday with his mom, Bibi (ph). They came back to America about four years ago. Wood says he likes living in Springfield.
TUCHMAN: And how does that make you feel that there are people who don't want you to stay in the country?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It makes me feel sad a little bit.
TUCHMAN: Tell me about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we ain't doing nothing. We just came here just to live a better life.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): But now with bomb threats against the city of Springfield, many are frightened, Wood's mother.
TUCHMAN: Are you scared?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course, yes. TUCHMAN (voice-over): Alicia's father.
TUCHMAN: Do you feel safe for your family in this community?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. Nobody knows what's going to happen later.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Wood is a confident young man. He wants to own a car dealership in the future. And he wants to protect his mom in the present.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to try to stay at home so not a lot of people can come up to us and make fun of us about the comments and eating cats and dogs.
TUCHMAN (voice-over):The youth pastor at the church says some within the community have told her they are looking to get out.
PHILOMENE PHILOSTIN, CHURCH YOUTH PASTOR: They live in Springfield because they feel insecure. They scare.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Alicia and her family are staying put. But the 10-year-old who wants to be a doctor when she grows up, did listen carefully when her father told us he's concerned about his family's safety.
TUCHMAN: How does that make you feel hearing your dad say that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that my dad will get me safe somehow, no matter what happens.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: And Gary joins us now. I mean, it's so sad to see those kids, kind of, you know, feeling the impact of these comments.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Yes, it really is sad, Anderson. And they're just children. And every one of the children I talk to at the church service want to stay in Springfield. They like their friends, they like their schools, they like the routines, and among the older kids I talk with, the teenagers who follow the news, they also like the fact that the mayor of this city and the governor of this state are supportive. Anderson?
COOPER: Gary Tuchman, thanks so much.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
