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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Flood Of Falsehoods; Former President Obama To Embark On Harris Campaign Sprint; Biden Warns Congressional Leaders Some Disaster Funding Will Run Out Before Election; Why Elon Musk Is Joining Trump At PA Rally?; Top State Dept. Official: Israel Has Given No Assurances It Won't Target Iran's Nuclear Facilities; Israel Continues Airstrike Campaign Against Hezbollah Targets In Lebanon; Bill Gates Looks To The Future In New Netflix Series. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired October 04, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAMES CARVILLE, AMERICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT, AUTHOR, MEDIA PERSONALITY, AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY STRATEGIST: She's a great gardener. She's a great mother. She takes the kids and so she fits with so -- I think she's somewhat of a polymath.
She can do a lot of different things and I kind of appreciate that. You know, if she was a homecoming queen. What red-blooded American guy didn't want to marry the homecoming queen?
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well you hit the jackpot on that. Well it's great to see you, James.
CARVILLE: Thank you.
BURNETT: As always, thank you.
CARVILLE: You bet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right, and be sure to watch CNN's new film "Carville: Winning Is Everything, Stupid" airing tomorrow night at seven.
And meantime, thanks so much for joining us. AC360 begins right now.
[20:00:47]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the former president lying about disaster relief while the death toll climbs from Hurricane Helene and even some fellow Republicans are speaking out, keeping them honest.
Also tonight, the Obama factor, and the boost it could give the Harris campaign when he hits the trail next week.
And the Trump Elon Musk bromance, just how much money is Musk pumping into the campaign?
Good evening. Thanks for joining us. Thirty-two days until election day. The candidates now making two
swing state campaign stops a day. The former president just wrapped up a town hall in Fayetteville, North Carolina after visiting Georgia this afternoon. Vice President Harris speaking Detroit and Flint, Michigan, her campaign getting a boost from unexpectedly good job creation numbers and a dip in the unemployment rate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Over 250,000 jobs created last month. Unemployment fell, and just a few weeks ago, the federal reserve cut down interest rates, which is going to be great for a lot of folks.
Over the last three-and-a-half years, we brought manufacturing back to America. We created 730,000 manufacturing jobs and announced the opening of more than 20 new auto plants in the United States, and we did it by investing in American industry and American workers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The former president's Georgia visit showcased a reconciliation of sorts with the state's Republican governor. Also, a briefing on hurricane recovery which he repeated of also, that he's been spreading lately about FEMA and disaster relief money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of the money that was supposed to go to Georgia and supposed to go to North Carolina and all of the others is going and has gone, already has been gone for people that came into the country illegally and nobody's ever seen anything like that. That's a shame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, it would be a shame perhaps if it were true, but it is not, keeping them honest, while FEMA does manage grants for shelters, housing, and helping migrants that money comes from a separate and unrelated account, which as a former president he probably knows. Whether he does actually or not he repeated the lie later today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is maybe the worst hurricane we've ever had and he's got no money. And we said, what happened to all the money? They were given billions of this, he spent it on illegal migrants coming into the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, that was twice.
Moments ago at this town hall, he did it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: ... and they're missing a billion dollars that they gave to
migrants coming into our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, this is not the first lie he has told about the relief effort. Here he is on Monday suggesting falsely that President Biden wasn't taking calls from Georgia Governor Kemp, a suggestion as you'll see is debunked or more accurately pre-bunked by Kemp's own words, just hours before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The governor is doing a very good job, he's having a hard time getting the president on the phone, I guess they're not being responsive. The federal government is not being responsive.
GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): The president just called me yesterday afternoon. I missed him and called him right back. And he just said, hey, what do you need? And I told him, we've got what we need we'll work through the federal process.
He offered that if there's another things that we need just to call them directly, which I appreciate that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So Georgia's Republican Governor, telling the truth, it seems. The party's leader lying about it just hours later for political advantage and not for the first time.
Two former Trump ministration officials recently spoke to POLITICO's environmental news unit, quoting from that story. "Mark Harvey, who was Trump's senior director for resilience policy on the National Security Council staff told E&E News on Wednesday that Trump initially refused to approve disaster aid for California after deadly wildfires in 2018 because of the state's Democratic leanings."
"But Harvey said Trump changed his mind after Harvey pulled voting results to show him that heavily damaged Orange County, California had more Trump supporters than the entire state of Iowa."
Olivia Troye, a former Trump Homeland Security adviser, backs up. Mark Harvey's account and they both told the publication they believe that their old boss is approaching Hurricane Helene with a similar mindset.
Even though he's not president now, and therefore not making decisions about relief money and disaster declarations. These falsehoods still have impact in the wake of the storm that's already killed more than 200 people without regard to politics.
Yet politics, and politically driven rumors and lies are now so common that FEMA is spending some of its finite resources and limited time on maintaining a webpage, this one dedicated specifically to debunking lies, spread most notably by Donald Trump, his running mate JD Vance and their supporters. Again, these are lies. [20:05:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROY COOPER, (D-NC): Well, the misinformation is damaging because it can hurt our relief efforts.
It also demoralizes National Guard soldiers who are out here for days and days and people who are working in emergency management, who are working around the clock to help people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So that's North Carolina's governor and he is a Democrat. So some people will automatically doubt him, but it's not just Democrats doing the debunking. Republicans are as well. Here's North Carolina Republican Senator Thom Tillis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): No, Will I be silent in any areas where we could do better? No. But right now, I'm out here to say that were doing a good job and those who may have may not be on the ground who are making those assessments ought to get on the ground.
REPORTER: Excellent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, that is a Republican Senator, recognizing what has always been with rare exceptions, the non-partisan, non-political reality about disaster relief, namely that it's a story of hard-working people of all stripes trying to do their best, it may be imperfect best, but under difficult conditions to help everyone they can.
This morning, Glenn Jacobs, the Republican Mayor of Knox County, Tennessee, posted on social media. He's the retired WWE wrestler Kane, by the way. The first part of his post implore people to quit spreading false rumors about FEMA and its state counterpart confiscating supplies.
The second part reads simply, "If everyone could maybe please put aside the hate for it and pitch in to help, that would be great."
So, a lot to talk about tonight with former Harris communication director, Ashley Etienne; also journalist Gretchen Carlson co-founder of the non-profit, Lift Our Voices and CNN senior political commentator, Scott Jennings.
COOPER: It is, Gretchen, I mean it's, I guess, not surprising. But again, in a storm like this with people who are dead, people still missing, people suffering to have falsehoods put into the mix is just, it's kind of icky.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: And I was about to say that his adviser had a great day today because he actually was very reserved for Trump, right? He didn't call Liz Cheney stupid. He didn't call Kamala Harris stupid.
So, he was on his best behavior, however these lies, I think, are for one reason only, and that is he is currently winning on the immigration front.
And they saw that when they made up the lies about what was going on in Springfield with the Haitian immigrants that that probably got the base all ginned up, right, and maybe his points even went up on the immigration front and that in my mind is why he's doing this at a disaster site, because he wants to blame it on something that he thinks will get bigger turnout for him in the election.
COOPER: Ashley, I mean, do you think Trump would be bothering with these baseless claims if the storm didn't hit two key swing states?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER HARRIS COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR: To some degree, I mean, I think what would Donald Trump has a penchant for is really exploiting people's pains, loss of lives, disasters like these for his own political purposes.
I mean, you rattled off a couple of great examples. There are others where he denied Democratic Governor Cooper after a Hurricane Matthew, 99 percent of what the state needed because he was a Democratic governor. You remember he mockingly, through paper towels at Puerto Ricans.
And so, this is what he typically does. He shows up into places like this and exploit people's pains. He did it after the train derailment in East Palestine and that's really his -- that's his MO.
So rather than doing what's in the interest of the American people, it's always about scoring political points with Donald Trump and that's really unfortunate.
And I'm glad both Democratic and Republican governors are calling him out on it.
COOPER: Scott, I mean, is this appropriate for the former president to be doing?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look Donald Trump didn't cause this hurricane, 'A'. 'B', he's not the current presidents 'C,' Joe Biden was at the beach and Kamala Harris was raising money with celebrities with this thing hit. So, I mean, I think there's legitimate political conversation.
COOPER: But he's basically trolling the disaster -- he's basically trolling the disaster relief and recovery. I mean, he's not really like adding anything to it. He's basically just making stuff up for political reasons, no?
JENNINGS: Well, I mean, he his campaign as far as I know, did start a GoFundMe to raise money for victims of it. He's down there with Brian Kemp today and he was praising Brian Kemp's actions on the recovery in Georgia and Kemp thanked him for bringing --
COOPER: Right, but he lied about Brian Kemp earlier.
JENNINGS: I mean, look, okay, I mean look, if you guys want to call it -- say that Donald Trump is messing up the hurricane while we have a current administration Biden-Harris that are in office, you go ahead,
I mean, it's Donald Trump. He has things to say about the things that happened in this world and it's October of a presidential election. So I, you know, I don't know what you want. What do you want him to do? Not comment on it?
COOPER: Just not be sleazy I guess, basically --
CARLSON: But I think it's a different argument actually because it's something different from saying that Democrats or Republicans would handle this different and the relief effort.
I mean, have we ever had FEMA come out and have to say that the money is actually going to hurricane relief and not to where Donald Trump says it is going. And they had to do that today.
And I think that that is the classic difference here between how Democrats might handle this or how Republicans might handle this --
COOPER: I mean, look --
CARLSON: -- and I'd love to hear Scott actually answer that question.
[20:10:22]
JENNINGS: I mean, can I --
COOPER: But listen, there's been plenty, I just want to point out, there's been plenty of criticism and reason to criticize, you know, FEMA, I mean, during the Hurricane Katrina in the wake of that, FEMA came under a lot of criticism and for very understandable reasons.
JENNINGS: Yes.
COOPER: So, I'm not saying nobody should criticize this thing. I just think you don't need to make up stuff to criticize. I mean, if you wanted to talk about some things that are factually correct and that would help the recovery ever get better, I think that's good.
JENNINGS: Yes, I probably have a jaundice view of this, Anderson, because I literally lived through Hurricane Katrina in the Bush White House. And as I know, you lived through it, Anderson covering it.
And I don't recall any restraint by Democrats or the national media coming after George W. Bush and FEMA and every other thing, it was immediately politicized. And I mean, I well remember it, it's seared into my brain.
And so now, all these people are out here saying, we can't politicize this. We can't criticize this. We -- you know, nothing can be said about Biden and Harris here or FEMA or anything else and I just think if a Republican were in the White House and the Republican president were at the beach and the vice president were raising money with celebrities, I guarantee you somebody would be mad about it.
COOPER: Gretchen, I do want to play some more where the former president had to say about the response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are poisoning our country. Our country is being poisoned, our country is being ruined. It is being ruined by these people and they took billions of dollars and used it for settlements of people that came in, many of which are criminals and the people in North Carolina and South Carolina and Georgia, and Florida, Virginia, Tennessee, there's no money for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: And that's proven not to be true today. I mean, I guess that would be my question to Scott Jennings is, we're not talking about how different parties politicize different things. We all know that happens.
The question is why does Trump have to talk about a false lie today that this money is going to immigrants, illegal immigrants. That's not happening.
COOPER: Ashley, I mean, the former president and Kemp appeared together for the first time today since 2020 when Kemp rebuffed the former president's request to overturn the election results.
Do you think the Harris campaign should be worried about a popular Republican governor campaigning with the former president at a battleground state?
ETIENNE: To some degree, I mean, it's very concerning, but the reality is this governor's take -- he's taking objection to Donald Trump and how he, you know, his antics, his lies, his dis and misinformation.
I mean, you know, that -- so the campaign has an opportunity to really continue to utilize Kemp to point out the fact that it's not just Democrats, it's also these Republicans that are -- that have had enough with Donald Trump.
I think you pointed it out accurately here. It's not that people have any objections. It's not that he has any objection with how the current administration is handling the recovery, but it's more about these lies that he's creating and it's not just him, it's his vice president.
I mean, they're just making up stuff and it's not -- and I love Scott to death, but like it's no excuse to say that it is October and this is what we should come to expect from not just Donald Trump, but from any of our leaders.
I mean, I don't want to know a liar, let alone let one run my nation and my country. I mean, what are you to trust with Donald Trump? So, I think the fact that the two of them are campaigning together allows the campaign, the Harris campaign has continued to point out the fact that there are Republicans that still find Donald Trump objectionable and really open up the permission structure for more Republicans to come in and support the ticket.
COOPER: All right, we're going to take a quick break.
Coming up next, a look ahead at the former president Obama's upcoming campaign marathon to Vice President Harris and their shared journey through political history.
Plus, the impact of multibillionaire, Elon Musk is having on his friend, Donald Trump's campaign.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:38]
COOPER: Former President Obama is going to launch a 27-day series of campaign events for Vice President Harris next week. First off for him as Pittsburgh, but for both, it is just the latest in the long political and personal road that they've traveled.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GWEN IFILL, JOURNALIST: There's a great district attorney in San Francisco whose name is Kamala Harris. She's brilliant, she's smart, and she's got a big future and they call her the female Barack Obama.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The political connection between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Barack Obama goes back two decades. Aides say Obama recalls first meeting Harris in 2004 at a California fundraiser for his Senate race. That meeting blossomed into now 20-year friendship.
When Obama first ran for president in 2008 --
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello everybody, hello.
KAYE (voice over): -- Harris was district attorney in San Francisco. She took a political risk and endorsed him in the primary over Hillary Clinton.
Obama won the Iowa Caucuses and went on to become president. Harris had campaigned for him in Iowa and later in California.
Obama returned the favor in 2010, loaning his star power to boost Harris' campaign for attorney general of California.
OBAMA: A dear, dear friend of mine. So, I want everybody to do right by her.
KAYE (voice over): Harris won. Two years later in 2012, she found herself on stage at the Democratic National Convention, where Obama gave her a coveted speaking role.
HARRIS: President Obama will fight for working families. He will fight to level the economic playing field and fight to give every American the same fair shot my family had.
[20:20:15]
KAYE (voice over): In 2013, an awkward moment during a closed door California fundraiser where Obama my described Harris as "By far, the best looking attorney general" sparking criticism.
JAY CARNEY, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION PRESS SECRETARY: He called her to apologize for the distraction created by his comments and they are old friends and good friends. And I would note that he called her in those same comments, brilliant, dedicated, and tough.
KAYE (voice over): At the White House correspondent's dinner that year, Obama poked fun at the issue.
OBAMA: I happen to mention that Kamala Harris is the best looking attorney general in the country. As you might imagine, I got trouble when I got back home. Who knew Eric Holden was so sensitive?
KAYE (voice over): As Obama was wrapping up his second term, another endorsement for Harris, this time for US Senate.
OBAMA: As your senator, Kamala Harris will be a fearless fighter for the people of California.
KAYE (voice over): In 2019, when Harris launched a bid for president, she met twice with Obama aides say, and occasionally talked by phone.
Obama counseled Harris on her message and strategy as he did the other Democratic candidates. When Joe Biden selected Harris as his running mate, Obama posted that he's known Harris a long time and she is more than prepared for the job.
They followed up with this video.
HARRIS: So, tell me about Joe and your relationship with Joe and what do I need to know? Like what's the thing about the ice cream? He loves ice cream. Tell me about that.
OBAMA: Ice cream is big; pasta with red sauce, he can go deep on that.
KAYE (voice over): And this year when Harris suddenly found herself at the top of the ticket, both the Obamas endorsed her.
OBAMA: We called to say, Michelle and I couldn't be prouder to endorse you and to do everything we can to get you through this election and into the Oval Office.
HARRIS: Oh, my goodness. Michelle, Barack, this means so much to me.
KAYE (voice over): Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: It's amazing cameras were there to actually capture that moment. Back with Ashley Etienne, Gretchen Carlson.
Joining us, CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten. So, what voting blocs could former President Obama potentially be most helpful with.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I also noticed a ton of cameras in the room here to capture this moment between the two of us.
COOPER: Yes.
ENTEN: Yes, look, first of all, let's talk about Black voters, right? You go back to 2012, Barak Obama won among Black voters by 90 points. You'll look at Kamala Harris' margin in the polls right now, what you see is, look, she's ahead, but that margin is significantly lower than that. Its 25 points lower than that.
Of course, Black voters are so important in states like Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan, of course, where the campaigns have been fighting ferociously including today with Kamala Harris being up there.
But it's not just Black voters, right? Let's talk about White working class voters. White voters without a college degree, who of course are so important in those Great Lake battleground states where they make up the plurality of voters, talking Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, what do we see?
What we see is that although Barack Obama isn't that popular among White voters without college degree, he is significantly more popular than Kamala Harris is. And of course, he did very well in those Great Lake battleground states back in 2012 and 2008.
So, I think that these are two groups that Obama appeals among and hoping that perhaps he can bring a few of them along to the Harris bandwagon.
CARLSON: And that's really important because Trump currently is doing 21 points better with trade school grads than Kamala Harris is. So, if Obama can penetrate that group at all.
But I would also say that President Obama is an organizer, right? He knows how to get the ground game going. And I think that that is especially important in these swings states and I hope that he brings out Michelle Obama because I actually think she's more of a secret weapon and he might be.
COOPER: Ashley, I want to play something or some of what Michelle Obama said at the Democratic Convention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: For years, Donald Trump did everything in his power to try to make people fear us. See his limited narrow view of the world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hard working highly educated successful people who happen to be Black.
Who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those Black jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I wonder, you know, Ashley, how you think, do you think the Obamas really --
ETIENNE: That never gets old by the way, Anderson.
COOPER: Do you think former President Obama, I mean, can really make inroads with some of those groups that Harry was showing the polls. I mean, those numbers are from you know, what, more than 10 years ago. Politics has changed a lot and a lot of those people in those groups have gone to Donald Trump.
[20:25:08]
ETIENNE: Absolutely. I mean he's going to be essential. I mean, he is Democratic royalty, both of them are, they're our top surrogates that we put on the trail quite a bit. I was meeting with the Harris campaign recently and there's two things I want to point out.
One, is where I think Obama will be essential, one is this problem with Black male voters. We're still seeing a motive --sort of a lack of enthusiasm around Black male voters between the ages of 25 and 45.
So, for me, I'm going to be its -- I'm going to be curious to see how he tries to engage those voters beyond just doing the big rallies. Does he do podcasts that are specifically targeted to Black men? Does he go into barbershops? Like, how does he try to galvanize that particular group?
And the second thing is, they feel like they've got to have Obama level turnout in order to win. I mean, that's just what Harry sort of pointed out a little bit that she's lagging in the polls compared to him.
They've got to exceed his turnout in order to offset potentially so what we might see with White women voters, where Donald Trump is making some grounds with less than educated voters. So, yes, I mean, he's essential to her win.
But there's also one other thing, Anderson, I've noticed having done some campaigns after President Obama. I used to work in the White House for him, so I think they're exceptional but after that, is some of the admiration and love that voters feel, Democratic, voters feel for the Obamas doesn't always transfer over to candidates.
So, the candidates still has to do the work. So, the onus is still on Harris to go in and persuade these voters.
COOPER: Gretchen, one of the things that the former president has done well is trying to reach out to voters who -- potential voters who don't maybe don't normally come through kind of a Joe Rogan style podcast or MMA fights, things like that. Vice President Harris, we learned today, has apparently recorded an episode with the "Call Her Daddy" podcast, which is hugely popular. That's going to apparently come out next week.
CARLSON: Yes, look, she has been doing more unusual types of media. There's obviously a strategy here. Instead of doing coming on this show, for example, right? I mean, she's doing things that are not necessarily what presidential candidates have done in the past, although she'd be on "60 Minutes" this weekend.
I do think that that is smart because she is reaching out to audiences that may not know her very well. I also think it's smart because it's a younger demographic.
And right now, a study has come out that only half of 18 year-olds who are eligible to vote have actually registered in swing states. So she needs to get to these younger voters.
COOPER: And "Call Her Daddy," Harry, I saw is like the most popular running podcast among women.
ENTEN: Absolutely, younger women, look at the chiasm, the gender gap chiasm among younger men and younger women in those key battleground states, look at that margin that Harris has among young women, it's 38 points. Among men voters, it's Trump by 10 and the bottom line is this, Harris is doing significantly well among younger women.
The gender gap is huge there. Podcast appearances like this can only help widen that and help widen her advantage among younger women.
COOPER: All right, everybody, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Up next, Elon Musk once said that Donald Trump should hang up his hat and sail into the sunset. Now, Musk is trolling to the right and joining Trump at a rally tomorrow in Pennsylvania. Their once turbulent relationship, we'll take a look at that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:42]
COOPER: We've got some breaking news. President Biden sending a letter to congressional leaders warning them that at least one critical disaster relief program is set to run out of money before they return from recess.
In the letter obtained by CNN's Kayla Tausche, President Biden says the Small Business Administration's disaster loan program is nearly used up. Officials tell CNN the program needs $1.6 billion to meet the demand of the 3,000 applications that SBA is getting from homeowners and business owners affected by Hurricane Helene.
Biden says that both FEMA and the Pentagon are fully funded for now, but that a comprehensive disaster relief package will be needed as soon as Congress returns November 12th.
More now in the presidential race. The former president's rally in Butler, Pennsylvania tomorrow, notable for two reasons. It's obviously a return to the site of the first assassination attempt against him back in July. And one of his major Super PAC donors, Elon Musk, will be there.
Now things have definitely changed from just over two years ago when Trump called him a BS artist at rally. And Musk responded online, saying in part, "I don't hate the man, but it's time for Trump to hang up his hat and sail into the sunset."
The next day, Trump responded online, as he's want to do, criticizing Musk, quote, "Electric cars that don't drive long enough, driverless cars that crash, or rocket ships to nowhere." He also said that when Musk visited him in the White House, quote, "I could have said "drop to your knees and beg," and he would have done it."
I'm joined now by the New York Times's Ryan Mac, author of "Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter," and Philip Bump, national columnist for the Washington Post. Philip, what do you make of this alliance between Trump and Musk?
PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: Yes, I mean, it's striking. I mean, I think it's pretty obvious from Trump's side. If you like Trump, he likes you, right? That's sort of always been the calculus for him. From Musk's side, Musk obviously finds Trump's authoritarian leanings appealing, right?
He certainly agrees with him on immigration. He's taken to very constantly just putting out fake information about immigration that comports with what Donald Trump has been saying on the campaign trail. But it also is obviously the case that Elon Musk responds to Donald Trump's strongman tendencies, right?
And in this Butler site, that's -- it's this quasi-religious site for being the place that really made Donald Trump, you know, the target that he always presented himself as, and it makes perfect sense. That was, at that moment, Musk signed on to Donald Trump's campaign. He's going to be there with him, and I think it reflects the importance of this site in sort of the Trump mythology.
COOPER: Ryan, you've written at length about the Trump-Musk alliance. I know you say tomorrow's rally is a full circle moment. What do you mean by that?
[20:35:04]
RYAN MAC, CO-AUTHOR OF "CHARACTER LIMIT: HOW ELON MUSK DESTROYED TWITTER,": Well, you know, in the moments after the assassination attempt, that's when Elon Musk, who had been kind of already thinking about endorsing Trump, that's when he tweeted out, I'm fully going to back President Trump in this election. This is the moment that I'm choosing.
And he went full bore into it. He started tweeting photos, that iconic photo of President Trump holding up his fist, you know, bloodied from the ear. And he bought into those emotions. And so, now he's going back to Butler. He's kind of closing that loop. He is going to lend his support. COOPER: Well, what do you think Musk gets out of it?
MAC: There's plenty, and there's plenty of potential conflicts of interest. We're talking about a guy who runs multiple companies that are under investigation by government regulators. I think of something like NHTSA, which is investigating Tesla for its self-driving or the FAA, which is investigating SpaceX.
And so, you have or a marriage or, you know, an alliance here that could end up being very beneficial to him when it comes to you know, those investigations.
COOPER: Phil, do you think it's also, I mean, ideological?
BUMP: Yes, I mean, it's hard to see that it wouldn't be. I mean, Musk is just so ferociously pro-Trump online, right? I mean, obviously he bought Twitter, turned it into X, and made it into this echo chamber that now is extremely useful to the right, broadly, and Trump specifically.
But the fact that he just puts out this propaganda and these false claims that align so completely with Donald Trump, and that he signs onto this picture of Trump as this strong leader who's going to save America, which is exactly how Trump likes to present himself, I think indicates that, you know, Musk has bought into it.
And that, you know, that Ryan, of course, is absolutely right, that there's benefits to Musk from having Donald Trump be president and including that Trump has said he'll put -- give Musk some job in the government or, you know, some advisory role. But be even beyond that, it's clear that his politics align.
COOPER: Ryan, I mean, it seems like for Elon Musk, for somebody who is running so many companies and I imagine under tremendous amounts of pressure, he seems to have a lot of time to just be putting out false information and sort of retweeting stuff or, you know, posting stuff that's just not true.
MAC: He does have a lot of time. You know, I was just on Twitter or on X looking at his feed and sometimes he's tweeting more than 75 times a day. I mean --
COOPER: Wow.
MAC: -- I don't understand how you get anything done. I mean, we're all journalists so I think we spend a lot of time on that platform. We have spent a lot of time in that platform. But to do that much on there and run two other companies or, you know, multiple other companies is a lot.
And now we're talking about him potentially joining the Trump administration. He's talked about this government efficiency commission where he's going to have oversight over spending and jobs. You -- I don't understand how he does it.
COOPER: Yes. Ryan Mac, Philip Bump, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Coming up, Iran's Supreme Leader led a rare Friday prayer service today to commemorate the death of Hezbollah's former leaders. The world and the White House await Israel's response for this week's missile attack. The former Secretary of Defense joins me next.
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[20:42:18]
COOPER: It's a large plume of smoke of the southern suburbs of Beirut. Our CNN team witnessed a short time ago, came about 40 minutes after Israeli military evacuation order for that area. Anticipation building for how and when Israel may retaliate for Iran's missile attack this week.
Top U.S. State Department officials tell CNN Israel has given no assurances that targeting Iran's nuclear facilities is off the table. President Biden today said Israel was, quote, "not going to make a decision immediately." He also said that Israel shouldn't strike Iran's oil fields either.
In three days, Israel and the world will mark one year since the October 7th terror attack, the same State Department source says it is, quote, "really hard to tell if Israel will use that day to retaliate for the missile attack."
I'm joined now by former Defense Secretary Mark Esper. Secretary Esper, what form do you think Israel's retaliation against Iran will take? I mean, they had a sort of symbolic strike the last time in April to respond to the Iranian attack then. What do you expect now?
MARK ESPER, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Yes, well, first of all, good evening, Anderson. Look, it'll be a significant strike. And the first question will be is what do they want to achieve if they want to go after regime change? And I think they'll go after -- they'll go into Tehran and they'll go after the Ayatollah Khomeini, they'll go after President Pezeshkian, and they'll go after the IRGC.
And then on top of that, they'd want to knock out all the command and control communications that whatever survives that would be able to communicate with the rest of the regime. If they want to go after military capabilities and you would look at strategic assets like the nuclear sites that are just south of Tehran and places like Fordow and Iraq and stuff like that, the danger of course, is that you have to go deep into the territory and you may lose a pilot. Same thing as if you go up north to Tehran.
The other challenge, by the way, with going after regime change, the downside is you risk civilian casualties. And what you don't want to do is to have the Iranian people rally around that regime, particularly since it's so fragile right now. And they are really not happy with the Iranian regime.
The other set of military targets would be, of course, ballistic missile production sites, storage sites, drone production sites, things like that. I think they will take out air defense regardless. That'll be the way by which they clear the path.
But I think the other -- the third big group of targeting, Anderson, are economic targets. We've talked about the 12 to 14 facilities involved in oil refining and manufacturing and distribution and summer right there on the Gulf Coast. So --
COOPER: And those are easier to hit.
ESPER: -- (INAUDIBLE) to targets with much less risk.
COOPER: Yes.
ESPER: I'm sorry?
COOPER: Those are easier to hit.
ESPER: Much easier with less risk to Israeli pilots.
COOPER: The idea of a -- I mean, just in terms of Israel's capabilities with the war in Gaza, the situation happening in Lebanon and Iran, I mean, are they capable of maintaining a kinetic situation like that?
[20:45:11]
ESPER: I suspect they are. And certainly with the United States help and because we would need to be there to support them in different ways. Of course, the production of the munitions and other means would be critical. And in some, depending on the operation or some things they need our assistance on.
But I believe they will. I suppose they've been preparing this for a long time. And look, this is quite a change in a strategic situation. We haven't seen this ever really. But the simple fact that Hamas is now on its knees, it's nearly decimated.
22 of the 24 battalions have been knocked down. And most of its leadership, Hezbollah is on the ropes with all of its leadership gone. And that was really always the counterpunch, the right hook that Iran had in its back pocket in case Israel ever attacked Iran, and now they're gone.
So what does Iran have left to respond with if Israel hits back really hard? Another salvo of ballistic missiles.
COOPER: Is Hezbollah really gone? I mean, obviously the, you know, I know the -- I think the Israel has said that they've knocked out about half of the missile capabilities of Hezbollah. They've obviously decapitated the leadership, but in terms of fighters on the ground in the south, I mean, I went out in 2006 on an operation with the IDF in southern Lebanon, and it was really tough.
I mean, once exchanging rocket fire is one thing, knocking out rockets, but actually going on the ground in southern Lebanon, that's a really -- that's a very, very difficult theater. ESPER: Yes, I know you're right, Anderson. I don't want to overstate it. That's I said they're on the ropes at this point in time. And we know that the command and control has been decimated. Leadership has been knocked out. I mean, they still haven't announced Hassan Nasrallah's replacement, let alone buried him.
And so that said, they still have 20,000 to 50, 000 fighters out there. They have -- if Israel's numbers are accurate, half of their missile and rocket inventory left, which could number 70,000 or 80,000, if that's accurate. So that said, I don't think they're going to -- they're trying to do with Hezbollah what they've done with Hamas.
My sense is what they want to do is get rid of the infrastructure along the border. That's the tunnels, the fighting positions from which they're shooting directly into Israeli talent villages and communities. And then they also want to knock out as much of that missile capacity as possible.
And then third, they want to push them back to the Litani River, up to the north, 18 miles and get them in compliance with U.N. Resolution 1701, which was passed in -- after the 2006 war, but was never followed through by Hezbollah. And so, I think if they can accomplish those three things, then I think that will be successful for with them. So that's my sense.
COOPER: How much do you think the political situation that Netanyahu is in the legal political situation he's in? His need to, you know, maintain this coalition that he has with far-right elements in Israel is driving the, I mean, the military situation?
ESPER: You know, it's interesting. We mustn't forget that there are still hostages being held by Hamas, somewhere upwards of 90 or so living and dead. And they're still out there and the families are still grieving for them and a majority, well over a majority of Israelis want those hostages back.
But at the same time, well over a majority of Israelis want to end Hamas, wanted -- and Hezbollah by is very large numbers. I mean, as you know, 60,000 to 70,000 Israelis are displaced from their homes in the north for nearly a year now, coming on Monday. And so people want to see this problem go away.
And, look, as I've been saying since October 7th, last year, at the end of the day, all words lead back to Iran.
COOPER: Yes.
ESPER: We have to deal with Iran. They have to deal with Iran, which is why I think it's going to be a very significant hit against Tehran against the regime.
COOPER: Mark Esper, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
ESPER: Thanks, Anderson. COOPER: Coming up next, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates on his latest project and what he calls the most profound technology of his lifetime.
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[20:53:25]
COOPER: The world is facing many challenges beyond what's in the news tonight, among them climate change, creating responsible AI. Philanthropists and Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates dives into those issues and more in his new series, "What's Next: The Future with Bill Gates," which is streaming now on Netflix.
Over five episodes, Gates talks with people like Lady Gaga, Senator Bernie Sanders, but he says his favorite chat was with one of his daughters. Here's a preview.
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BILL GATES, CO-FOUNDER, MICROSOFT: Have you ever run into crazy misinformation about me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crazy misinformation about you all the time. I've even had friends cut me off because of these vaccine rumors, but I'm a public health student at Stanford and I think that there is just so much nuance on how do you communicate like accurate public health information or scientific data.
GATES: I don't know, I need to learn more because I naively still believe that digital communication can be a force to bring us together, to have reasonable debate. But the thing about, you know, I make lots of money from vaccines, it's even hard for me to figure out where that comes from. It's not like a political organization, it's just madness, and who promotes that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's fear. I mean, everyone was stuck at home during a pandemic. We're all scared for our lives. No one really knows what to trust or what to believe. So that's what our society does.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: I spoke with Bill Gates earlier.
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COOPER: I want to start with AI. What frightens you about it? What excites you about it?
GATES: Well, it's the most profound technology in my lifetime, you know, and --
COOPER: That's saying something coming to you.
GATES: Yes. COOPER: I mean, you created the most profound technology.
GATES: The PC, the internet, the magic of software, you know, here we are creating another form of intelligence other than humans.
[20:55:06]
And there's two things unique about it. It -- there's no limit to how good it can get. And it's happening pretty quickly.
COOPER: Right. Sam Altman a couple of days ago said in a few thousand days, didn't specify more than that, it's going to be smarter than any human on earth.
GATES: Yes. So, you know, you'd get estimates from maybe two years to 10 years. So the fact that the outside view, you know, is half a lifetime. Most profound things are generational, you know, electricity, even microcomputers, personal computers for like a 20 to 30-year period. So, you know, the opportunities to do good with this stuff are well beyond what most people realize, but then the speed of change will be disconcerting.
COOPER: You address this in part of this Netflix series. But, I mean, what happens to a society when the machines are smarter than anybody on earth and take care of a lot of basic things that we used to spend a lot of time doing and do jobs better than we can do them? Like, what happens to human ambition and, you know, passion about, like, what do people do?
GATES: Well, it -- once you get to the extreme, there's a deep philosophical question, you know. Was it the most profound thing to, you know, have to work, make sandwiches, whatever, but filling in, we've organized society around a shortage in a sense of purpose.
You know, you learn to be a doctor. Wow. That's very valuable. It was hard. We encourage people to do that. So, the work week will shrink and the idea of, OK, what do you do with all that extra leisure time?
COOPER: But it is very hard to predict how technology ends up being used. You can go into it with the smartest people thinking it's going to be one way. In this show, I learned that you didn't think of, you know, of all the thought you put into, you know, personal computing and that, that it would be used in the way that it currently is generating misinformation and disinformation and polarizing people in some ways.
Like that didn't -- that was not on your radar for -- you thought it would be -- and correct me if I'm wrong, you know, people suddenly have access to the truth and the smart and all the information in the world. And they're going to become better educated because of it. And it's going to be better.
GATES: And that turned out to be naive. I was wrong about that. The idea that, you know, in the case of the pandemic, they'd look for misinformation about vaccines and that would sort of confirm their view, you know, that maybe I and Fauci, you know, had some malign motivation. That, I never would have expected.
COOPER: Does it make -- because you talked to your daughter about this in the series and we played a clip of it in the intro to this. But -- which is, you know, she obviously is very far more aware, I think, than you are of the misinformation out there about you.
Does it -- I mean, it doesn't seem to phase you, but, you know, look, there's a lot of QAnon people think I'm a lizard person, like Tom Hanks or, you know, on the Jeffrey Epstein airplane, or crazy conspiracy theories, none of which are true, but --
GATES: Really?
COOPER: Yes. But does it bother you? Does it concern you?
GATES: No, I get to do very exciting work. I get to work with very smart people. So even though this misinformation thing is, you know, it's sad that, for example, some elderly people who should have had a COVID vaccine, it made them hesitate and hence you had hundreds of thousands of deaths you shouldn't.
And, you know, I worry about my kids having to run into this. Overall, my life is not one that I, you know, would say, hey, feel sorry for me for any aspect. You know, it's just another thing for me to deal with and hopefully take some of it in a humorous vein.
COOPER: So, I mean, you do a lot of work in Africa. It doesn't get much attention. So let's just give it some attention right here. What are you working on that what, you know -- what have you -- what has worked and what are you working on? What needs more? I mean, polio is virtually eliminated in the world, correct?
GATES: Yes. We still have that -- we still have a little bit in Africa, a little bit in Pakistan, Afghanistan, but with luck over the next three or four
years, we'll get that to zero.
COOPER: Childhood from mortality --
GATES: Cut in half, it's the turn of the century.
COOPER: -- because a lot of the work you have been doing.
GATES: That's right. You know, our foundation and lots of the rich governments, including the U.S. funded vaccines for all the world's children. And that was for diarrhea, pneumonia now for HPV.
COOPER: And you believe that infant mortality rate around the world can actually even be reduced by another half.
GATES: Exactly. So, the U.N. in 2015 actually set that as a goal to do that by 2030. We are way off track because the progress of the first 15 years we hit the pandemic. These African countries are indebted. The strains on rich country budgets are huge with Ukraine aging society. And now the aid has gone down.
COOPER: Bill Gates, thank you so much.
GATES: Thank you.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Well, that's it for us.
The news continues. Have a great weekend. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. I'll see you Monday.
