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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Israel Launches Retaliatory Strikes On Iran; Harris Slams Trump For Likening US To "Garbage Can For The World"; IDF: Israel "Conducting Precise Strikes On Military Targets In Iran"; IDF: Israel "Conducting Precise Strikes On Military Targets In Iran"; Harris Expected To Make The Case For Reproductive Freedom Nationwide In Houston Rally; Former Haley Voters In Pennsylvania Open To Harris; At Least 26 People Still Unaccounted For In North Carolina Following Hurricane Helene; Ukrainian Family Escapes War, Then Killed Or Missing After Hurricane. Aired: 8-9p ET

Aired October 25, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, not only these nuns all vote, they're also not afraid of a fight. They tell me that they've actually reached out to their attorneys to see if they might take any legal action after this incident -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks for the fascinating story and fascinating report. Danny, thank you very much doing that, going knocking on the doors and getting the facts.

Before we go tonight, earlier tonight, we we're discussing those major newspaper endorsements or lack thereof. "Washington Post," "LA Times" owners' stopping both papers from endorsing Kamala Harris. I want to be clear though, "The New York Times" has endorsed Harris and did so back in September.

Have a great weekend. Anderson starts now.

[20:00:39]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening, we start tonight with breaking news. Moments ago, Israel's military confirming that tonight it conducted what they called precise strikes on military targets in Iran. The strikes come after reports by Iranian state media of explosions in the capital Tehran. This is in response to the October 1st Iranian missile attack on Israel, which was part of an escalating regional conflict that's also seen Israeli troops entering Southern Lebanon and the killings of the head of the Iranian- backed group Hezbollah, plus the political leader of Hamas, while he was in Tehran.

We're going to start with Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv tonight. So what have you learned Jeremy?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the Israeli military is now confirming that strikes are indeed underway against what they are describing as military targets inside of Iran. They did call these strikes, "precise strikes" on military targets in Iran and Israeli officials tonight are taking pains to emphasize that there were no energy targets neither nuclear nor oil targets that were hit in these Israeli strikes tonight.

We don't have a ton of more detail about exactly what the nature of these targets are. But Iranian state media is indeed reporting that there were explosions in the Iranian capital of Tehran. The Israeli military says that it has every right and duty to respond to what it describes as continuous Iranian attacks by itself, as well as its proxies.

Of course, this is primarily retaliation for that barrage of some 200 ballistic missiles that Iran fired at the beginning of this month and over the course of the last three-and-a-half weeks, there has been mounting anticipation about exactly how Israel will respond as they initially did consider striking those nuclear and oil targets, but appeared to have been talked off of that ledge by the United States, which very much wanted to see a much more limited response.

The question now, of course becomes, how Iran will respond and how quickly they will do so.

COOPER: So, we really don't have a sense of how long the strikes may continue for, or sort of the exact nature of the targets. What's the White House saying tonight or is the IDF saying anything else?

DIAMOND: Well, the White House is making very clear that the United States was not involved in these strikes. According to a senior administration official saying that they are not participating in this military operation.

We are also learning that Israel did indeed informed the United States ahead of this. And there has been very close cooperation between Israel and the united states in the lead up to this strike, not only with those consultations, of course, between us and Israeli officials.

President Biden getting on the phone with the Israeli prime minister directly in recent weeks. But also, of course, it's important to note that the United States at the beginning of last week deployed the THAAD air defense system to Israel, presumably in anticipation of potential Iranian retaliation for the strike that we are indeed seeing tonight and to try and deter a future Iranian response.

We had heard reports before that Iran might, might respond very quickly to an Israeli strike. But it is not clear yet how quickly that will actually happen. And of course the question is, will Iran now look to de-escalate or will we look at another escalatory cycle of retaliation that could of course plunge Iran and Israel more directly into an all-out war.

COOPER: All right, Jeremy Diamond, appreciate it. Thanks very much. We'll continue to follow the story update with any new developments.

I want to turn to the state of the presidential race here. Former President Trump expected to speak at a rally in Michigan any moment, hours after he left Texas, where Vice President Harris is scheduled for his second star-studded event in as many days this evening.

Tonight, shell be joined on stage for the first time by Beyonce. Texas may seem a curious stop for a Democratic nominee with only 11 days until election day, but she's using the state and its strict laws and abortion as a backdrop to discuss reproductive rights and women's health, which is obviously a key theme of her campaign, that she previewed earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sadly the elected leaders of Texas, a lot of them have made Texas ground zero in this fundamental fight for the freedom of women to make decisions about their own body.

So tonight, we will be discussing the impact of that not only to the women of Texas and their families but to people around the country because of Trump abortion bans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:05:03]

COOPER: Texas, of course, is also a major focal point on the battle over immigration and border control. Yesterday and again today, the former president has been calling United States a garbage can and he's blaming migrants. Today, Harris responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: It's just another example of how he really belittles our country. The president of the United States should be someone who elevates discourse and talks about the best of who we are and invest in the best of who we are. Not someone like Donald Trump who is constantly demeaning and belittling who the American people are. America deserves better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Earlier today, when Trump was in Texas, moments before he appear on stage, he once again tweeted threats about jailing and prosecuting American citizens that he perceives his enemies. It reads in part, "When I win, those people that cheated will be prosecuted to the fullest extent, of the law, which will include long-term prison sentences." He also writes, "Please be aware that this legal exposure extends two lawyers, political operatives, donors, illegal voters, and corrupt election officials. Those involved in unscrupulous behavior will be sought out, caught and prosecuted in levels unfortunately never seen before in our country."

By the way, he's also threatening the special counsel who has not broken any law, but is investigating and has filed charges against the former president.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And you have to get the killer, murderers and mentally deranged, you have to get them out. And we should throw Jack Smith out with them, the mentally deranged people. Jack Smith should be considered mentally deranged. And he should be thrown out of the country.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COOPER: The man who wants to be president threatening a special counsel working for the Department of Justice. No complaints from Republican leaders and the House or Senate about that. But earlier in the day, Senator Mitch McConnell and Speaker Mike Johnson warned Vice President Harris, of all people, in a statement that she is the one who needs to tone down the political rhetoric.

They mentioned, both the assassination attempts against the former president and then wrote this. I am quoting: "The Democratic nominee for president United States has only fanned the flames beneath a boiling cauldron of political animus. Her most recent and most reckless in vocations of the darkest evil of the 20th century seemed to dare it to boil over. The vice president's words more closely resemble those of President Trump's second would-be assassin than her own earlier appeal to civility."

Now, they are referring to the fact that Harris called the former president of fascist during our CNN townhall with her when she only did after two top generals who once served the former president said the very same thing. The former president's former chief-of-staff, John Kelly, told "The New York Times" this week, "He certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure." And the former president's Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark Milley told Bob Woodward that Trump is " fascist to the core."

What McConnell and Johnson did not mention though, they are certainly aware of it, is that for quite a while Mr. Trump has been using the term fascist against Harris and a lot of others he doesn't like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She is a fascist --

Fascist --

Fascist --

Far-left fascists.

These are young, smart people that happened to be fascist.

Fascist.

This fascist --

Fascist movement that wants to throw you in jail.

Fascist.

This is fascist.

The fascist.

The fascist.

She is surrounded by fascists.

A corrupt and fascist regime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So a lot to discuss with Republican media consultants, strategist Brad Todd; CNN contributor, and "The New York Times" is Lulu Garcia Navarro and Ashley Allison, former national coalitions director for the Biden-Harris 2020 campaign.

Ashley, how much -- I mean, do you think it's wise for Harris to be devoting this day to be in Texas. Obviously, Beyonce is there, there's a lot of other people there but the focus is going to be on abortion rights.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do think it's important that the vice president is in Texas for a couple of reasons.

First, I mean, we're just days out from this election and that Senate race is still in play. And so, part of what you do in a campaign is that you go places where you can have ripple effects. So, she's doing that.

She doesn't think she's going to win the state, but if we win and pick up that Senate seat, which was a long stretch, but now I think the race is almost tied could really bode well for Democrats.

But also she's going to Texas. She has Beyonce, this is how campaigns work. The ripple effect that her appearance in Texas will have will go into battleground states, will go into states that also governor's races and Senate races and House races.

So, she's going to be in Texas, in an area where traditionally Democrats don't do extremely well. But her message will go across the country and she said it herself. Texas is ground zero for the abortion law. People have lost their lives. They want to prosecute doctors. They want to prosecute citizens who just help women have bodily autonomy.

So taking the fight to where it really started is super important. And I think it will go and make be a national message that can have ripple effect.

Plus, she has the Queen Bey. So like, why not go to Beyonce's hometown? What a better message can you have?

COOPER: Brad, I mean, she also did draw the former president, I guess, to Texas today as well. So, if people complaining she's off the campaign trail in battleground states, he is as well at least for this event.

[20:10:03]

BRAD TODD, GOP MEDIA CONSULTANT AND STRATEGIST: Texas is a great place for them to campaign. And I think that Vice President Harris has a great chance tonight. No state has been impacted more by this administration's failure on illegal immigration than Texas. And it's the issue that's costing her best chance at the election right now. She trails on about 16.

She leads on a lot of issues but immigration and the way this administration is handling it, it's hurting her. I think she should go to Houston tonight and declare that she understands they made a mistake and she's going to do things differently. It would be the best thing she could do to turn the election around.

COOPER: Ashley. I mean, what about that notion, I mean, it seems unlikely that that's something that she would suddenly do now with this short amount of time. But do you think that would have been something for her to do earlier? Just say look, yes, sure. I wish we put these executive orders even faster and move on.

ALLISON: I think what she has done and said that we have a problem with immigration that has been way before her administration, both Democratic administrations and Republican administrations have not been able to move the ball for it. What I do think she should say tonight, is that there could have been a bill to fix the problem and help the problem and that her opponent stopped it.

So I mean, I appreciate Brad's point and I understand why he would say that, but I think she is able to have a message about the future forward. And what she would do in this administration and not just fix the problem, but also stop the rhetoric about how immigrants are poisoning our blood, how they don't give to society.

She could talk about a lot of issues that are important. The economy, immigration, abortion, and democracy because we also know Texas is somewhat ground-zero for a lot of voter suppression tactics as well. And so, she could really have a comprehensive message tonight on which I think you will hear from her.

COOPER: Lulu, do you think this is a missed opportunity if Vice President Harris doesn't address the issue the immigration in her speech tonight in Texas or do you think she should stay focused on reproductive rights?

LULU GARCIA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I know, I don't think she should be focusing on immigration because I do think it is the issue that she polls most weakly on and I think the Democrats really have a lot of explaining to do on what has happened in terms of the surge of illegal immigration, under the Biden administration, you know, most voters are constantly looking at this issue and saying why has this happened and why didn't she do anything sooner?

So, it's not something that she's going to win on. She's focusing on women, that is her strongest issue. That is who she speaking to in this in this election. Those are the voters, the reliable voters that are going to come out, that are going to be voting on Roe and she should really be laser-focused on them.

COOPER: Ashley, in addition to equating the US to garbage can, the former president also said that towns had been, "invaded and conquered", and that some haven't been, "infected yet -- I mean, do you think any disgust with that sort of language is already baked into the electorate?

ALLISON: Anderson, sadly, I think it is. I mean, but I just want to talk to voters for a second and to even the panel as like he's calling our country garbage which means he's calling us garbage too, because we live here and so, I don't want anybody leading me that thinks I'm trash. He talks about going out a US citizen and that's why the vice president said he was a fascist.

That's why his chief-of-staff said he is a fascist because that's what dictators do. They do political exile, they run people who don't agree with them out of their country because they're a dictator and they don't believe in democracy. So, I think that is important to keep saying that because even if Donald Trump wins, I refuse to normalize that behavior and the effort to preserve our democracy.

But before the election is called, and while voters can still vote, talk about the issues, but also talk about the threat, it is constantly a yes and -- I know there are still some undecided voters out there and I think that message will resonate with them.

COOPER: Brad, I mean -- I guess it doesn't surprise, maybe it shouldn't surprise people, but I did find it, again to Ashley's point, it is not normal for somebody who wants to be president of the United States be talking about deporting a special counsel, a guy who's just assigned to this and doing his job.

TODD: Well, I mean, I don't think he doesn't mean that about Jack Smith.

COOPER: What do you mean he doesn't mean that?

TODD: I don't, of course --

COOPER: He just -- he said --

ALLISON: What do you mean -- then why say it.

TODD: This is the way Donald Trump talks and he doesn't mean it about Jack Smith, it's for effect.

NAVARRO: That doesn't apply, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, that doesn't fly anymore.

ALLISON: And it's not acceptable.

NAVARRO: You cannot keep on saying that things that Donald Trump says don't mean anything. We know that they do, we saw in his first administration that they do the things that he says, the things that he tweets actually become policy. We also know by the way, I mean, if we're talking about immigration, we know there was an interview that was given by the former immigration czar, the real one for the Trump administration, Stephen Miller, who talked about expelling millions of people, creating huge camps in Texas on the border. I mean, that there are plans in place to enact this very draconian

agenda right away and so, you know, you can talk about rhetoric, but there are policies to back them up. This isn't just about words.

[20:15:13]

TODD: But Lulu --

COOPER: Yes, Brad, at the convention, they were holding up signs.

ALLISON: Say what you say, and say what you mean.

COOPER: Brad, at the convention, they had printed out signs that they were handing out to people saying mass deportations.

TODD: Hold on just a second, though, the American public is very aware of Donald Trump's immigration policies, his actual policies when he was president, they're aware of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' policies and he leads on the issue by 16 points, by 16 points. She's the one that's out of step with where the public is here, not Donald Trump.

COOPER: Do you think the American public wants American citizens deported because they are doing their job?

ALLISON: Yes, but, Brad, deporting -- right, that's not an immigration policy, that's a dictator, that's a fascist, deporting American citizen because they're doing their job in -- the country, it's not an immigration policy.

COOPER: Brad, if he was to do that, I assume -- let me ask you, you believe that would not be an appropriate thing to do, that that would be totally and American --

TODD: Of course not, -- he also said that if he shot someone on 5th Avenue I don't approve shooting someone on 5th Avenue, but let's get in the real world here, we have two people who are very known. They're in a dead heat race. The American public is very concerned about the way Donald Trump talks. There's no question that the voters are concerned about that. They're very concerned about the way Kamala Harris acts and what she does in office. That's where we are and we can express all kind of outrage if we want, but that's where this tag election looks.

COOPER: Go ahead Lulu.

NAVARRO: But isn't, I'm sorry, but isn't the truth that actually, you know, you have both sides of this electorate frozen. We are ending this campaign almost where it started when there was a different Democratic candidate, neck and neck basically, you have people in this country who disliked Donald Trump intensely and you have people who support him intensely.

And so, at the end of the day, to say that the American people are out of step with Kamala Harris, that's simply not true.

TODD: On the issue of immigration, they are, but she can fix it. She can fix it.

COOPER: We'll see. We have less than a little bit more than a week to go. Brad Todd, Lulu Garcia Navarro, Ashley Allison, thank you very much.

Coming up, the latest on the retaliatory strikes in Tehran confirmed by Israel's military. Also, were going to meet the Ukrainian who immigrated to North Carolina and hope to find members of her family still missing after Hurricane Helene. Our Gary Tuchman has that story and more from the battleground states.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:51]

COOPER: We're showing you the skyline of Tehran where Israel tonight confirmed it launched retaliatory strikes against what they say are military targets. State media in Iran reported explosions in the capital.

According to a White House official, President Biden has been briefed on the strikes and the White House was notified ahead of the strike. It comes after an Iranian missile course attacked Israel earlier this month.

Joining me now CNN chief global affairs correspondent Matthew Chance and CNN chief national security correspondent Alex Marquardt.

Alex, what are you hearing about what's going on so far?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, Anderson, were just hearing about those blasts just west of Tehran and that's coming from the Iranians. It is actually quite surprising that we're getting this much information from both the Israelis and from the White House, both confirming that these retaliatory strikes by Israel are underway.

The White House putting out a statement on the record just moments ago saying that these targeted strikes are against military targets in Iran. They're calling it an exercise of self-defense in response to those Iranian strikes, the 180 ballistic missiles back on October 1st.

For the past three weeks, Anderson, there has been a huge amount of worry in this town about how Israel would retaliate any considerable amount of pressure from Washington on Israel to do it in a rather limited and calibrated way so that this doesn't further escalate. We know what that has meant, it is a specific pressure from the president on the record saying that he wished that Iran would not go after nuclear or oil targets, and it does appear that right now, Israel, at least for now, is going after these military targets.

So were trying to figure out what those are. They could be barracks, they could be training facilities, they could be command and control centers. Anything that has to do with Iran's missile system. But does it stop there? You could also see a scenario in which Israel would use cyber capabilities or special forces capabilities as well. I think, Anderson, one thing that we need to take into consideration

is, "Is this the kind of strike that Iran is going to absorb and say, okay, essentially, now were even."

Or, are they going to feel really threatened by what Israel is doing tonight? And respond perhaps very quickly. That is a major fear, but, Anderson, this does feel like we're kind of at the beginning of this retaliatory response, unclear how long it may last.

COOPER: Alex, we have Matthew. Matthew, I'm wondering if you're hearing anything from the Iranian government or more about what the IDF has said about what has occurred.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I've been in touch with figures inside the Israeli military and what they've told me is they've tried to underline this idea that these are military targets that have been struck or that are being struck as part of this retaliatory action, no energy infrastructure targets were hit and that includes either oil facilities or nuclear facilities.

That's according to my sources inside the Israeli military and of course, that's something the United States and President Biden in particular called on the Israeli's to hold back from hitting those kinds of targets.

So, it seems at this stage even though the very early stage of this operation that it's just military targets that are being that are being struck right now, which may provoke less of a response, perhaps, depending on what was actually targeted and who, if anybody was killed in these strikes from the Iranians.

[20:25:22]

It's also been confirmed that as you've seen, from the US side, that US planes, that US forces were not engaged in this. And that's been reiterated by sources in the Israeli military as well, saying this attack was a hundred percent Israeli.

What I haven't been able to get from Israeli sources is any sense of how broad this retaliation is, because there have been reports in Iraq in Baghdad, and in Damascus in Syria of explosions as well. There's no comment coming to us at the moment from the Israeli military about whether they're responsible for that, or whether there are strikes on those countries as part of this broader retaliation action against Iranian interests.

COOPER: Matthew Chance, we'll check in with you throughout the night. Alex Marquardt as well.

Joining us now CNN chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, I mean, the last time there were retaliatory strikes against Iran by Israel. Their words largely symbolic sort of message sending. They were also in response to the Iranian attack on Israel. What do you make of what we have seen thus far or heard thus far from Israel's military? CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, to put it

all in perspective and context, it appears that the last time it was sort of a standoff missile attack that hit perhaps a radar station somewhere around Esfahan. This appears to be actual aircraft according to the IDF and according to the United States, actually, in some way, dropping bombs or missiles on Iran directly from their own planes.

And so, this would be a very first to put this into context -- very first time that this kind of engagement has actually happened. Iran has been preparing for this ever since its 200 missiles, ballistic missile barrage against Israel back in early October.

And the question has always been from the Iranian perspective, if you look at the reporting, if you hear what the Iranian officials have been saying is, how big will it be and what are our options? Should we respond at all if it's more symbolic or more something we can absorb and we expect as a retaliation from Israel or is it something much bigger, much wider, targeted at the regime, targeted as you've been discussing, the crucial oil infrastructure, or indeed the nuclear infrastructure. And then what would they be potentially they think themselves forced to respond to?

So I do think it's going to be important to see the scale of what Israel is doing. And then to see whether Iran decides that it has to respond.

Potentially in any event, it might respond according to sources, somewhat, but in a way that all sides understand that this is happening. This has happened, it's been in response to all these kinetic activities over the last several months and now, they need to draw a hold under it.

The bottom line, is that all of this now is about deterrence. All of it, whether it was Israel striking Syria first and then that killed Iranian officials. Remember that building in Damascus, that was in April then Iran responded. And then again, Israel killing Ismail Haniyeh, the head of Hamas inside Iran. It is not admitted that but everybody believes that that is what Israel did or rather Israel did do that. Iran then sending more missiles back included killing of its ally and proxy Hassan Nasrallah of Hezbollah.

So, all of this is just so much strike, counterstrike, an attempt to establish deterrence and attempt to potentially certainly from Iran's perspective, they don't want to see it spin out of control.

The bottom line is Israel is the dominant military force in the region and Iran, while its the dominant, let's say, regional force, it has got not at all the wherewithal to challenge Israel. And it sees, Iran, its allies have been decimated in that region, whether it's Hamas or whether it's Hezbollah, et cetera. And from reporting outside of Iran, it doesn't look including from officials like it wants to get into a massive much bigger war with Israel.

COOPER: And we should point out that Israel is emphasizing this, Jeremy Diamond is reporting from there that it did not attack any energy targets. Obviously, no nuclear facilities, that means and no oil facilities. And the number of those oil facilities are actually quite vulnerable. I mean, it could be in terms of, certainly compared to the nuclear facilities, it could be relatively easily hit. And a lot of economic damage done. But Israel is saying that they were not being targeted either.

[20:30:09]

AMANPOUR: That's right. In fact, when I spoke to the former Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, a few weeks ago, when everybody was expecting -- everybody knew that this was going to happen. The international community knew, Iran knew, everybody's waiting.

The Arab countries in the region know, the Gulf countries. We don't yet know how Israel flew its planes and what direction it took. I mean, I haven't seen a map and I haven't seen the trajectory, but it meant that they would potentially have to fly over several Arab nations, whatever the countries are that stand between Israel and Iran. It would have to get permission.

And Iran has been on a, you know, a diplomatic offensive over the last several weeks, trying to make sure that Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, the Gulf countries, in their words, state neutral. It was saying that, you know, anybody who appeared to be not just taking part, but allowing this strike would be considered a legitimate target.

COOPER: Yes.

AMANPOUR: It sent that warning to the United States as well. So there's been a lot of telegraphing of kind of posture. But you're right, the United States did not want potentially the global oil supply and therefore the global economy to be shaken. It's considered almost impossible for the important nuclear sites to be attacked other than by particular strength bombs that only the United States has and the delivery systems in terms of aircraft that only the United States has.

So that was always considered potentially a non-starter. Question is it ballistic missile attacks? Is it revolutionary guard: And how close does it get to the regime?

COOPER: Yes. Christiane Amanpour, thank you. We'll continue to follow this throughout the night.

Up next, with former President Trump expected on stage soon in Michigan and Vice President Harris told Houston rallied tonight with Beyonce trying to make the case for reproductive freedom nationwide. Two political players who made their names running for -- running major presidential campaigns will join me next to talk about the state of the race.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:10]

COOPER: Two perspectives on the 2024 race. David Axelrod was instrumental in getting Barack Obama elected president twice, and Mike Murphy served as a top official for Republican campaigns, including the late Senator John McCain's 2000 presidential bid.

Mike and David are longtime friends and co-hosts of the Hacks on Tap podcast. They join me tonight.

David, do you think it's wise for Vice President Harris to be campaigning in Texas tonight?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, she's doing what really is a national event as she wants to make abortion rights a center of the campaign. And you look at polling and you can see why I think, in the CNN poll today, certainly one of the polls, abortion rights was by far and away the issue that people said was a absolute must for them. The more people said that was a deal breaker for them.

And this is really a major plus for her and her campaign. It's a big distinction with Trump. And she's going to use Texas as a backdrop.

COOPER: Mike, do you think it makes sense for the Vice President to be doing that tonight? You've also said it's time for brute -- more brute force closings for the candidates. What do you mean by that?

MIKE MURPHY, GOP CONSULTANT: Well, that means flood the zone, four or five event days, a lot of impromptus, create the visual image of her out there earning it. So, no, I don't think she should be in Texas. I think Axe is right, it's a national platform. It's not a disaster. And she lured Trump there.

So they're both wasting a day going to a state that isn't in play. So I guess it's a tie. But, no, I think this is a dead even race. Every event counts and I'd be in the key states.

COOPER: David, I mean, there's no -- any reason to think that General Kelly's description of Trump as a fascist, which now the Vice President is saying directly that, yes, he is a fascist, he said that at our town hall? Do you think that is resonating with people?

AXELROD: Look, Anderson, you've heard me say this before, if -- I think it's a deadly serious issue. And, you know, today, Trump was threatening to jail election workers after the election if he sent -- if he senses any improprieties and so on.

COOPER: He's talking about deporting Jack Smith which is, I mean, just ludicrous.

AXELROD: Yes. I mean, he's getting wilder by the day. It's concerning. But I've said many times, if you're thinking about -- if you're talking about democracy over the dinner table, it's because you don't have to worry about the cost of the groceries on your dinner table.

And I think the people who are hanging out in this race, the people who may make the difference in this race, are likely influenced by issues closer to home. I thought in your town hall with her, the best line of the night for her was when she said he's going to come to office with an enemies list and I'm going to come to office with a to- do list. And that to-do list is going to be the concerns we're discussing here tonight.

I think that's where she should be. And you can see in that CNN polling the -- this notion of retribution against enemies is a major concern of people. His temperament is overwhelmingly. 56 percent said this was a reason not to vote for him. This is what's keeping the race close in a country where 28 percent of people say we're on the right track.

The incumbent party has no business being in the race. I mean, by historical measures, this would be disqualifying, but people have such deep concerns about Donald Trump. So I don't think the issue of fascism itself is one that is going to move people. I think the people who move by it are already supporting Kamala Harris. But I think that the idea that he's going to be spending every waking day to -- thinking about how to screw his enemies instead of working to help people is a powerful issue.

COOPER: Well, Mike, I mean, the former president is certainly playing into that, talking, I mean, again, today about, you know, deporting mass numbers of people, setting up camps, I mean, deporting, again, Jack Smith, who's just doing his job for the Department of Justice.

MURPHY: Yes. No, no Trump has decided to close the campaign, not on the economy was better under me, but on the Jackboots are coming message. We're going to build a monument to the Wehrmacht. He's -- Trump's doing her a favor but she doesn't have to be in that dialogue with him.

I don't mind a one liner out every day to keep the fire going, but I agree effects on this. She has to close the deal that when you vote for her, you get a better economic life for the middle class. And that's talking about things do cost too much.

I'm new, new advisers, new policy, change in the right direction on your side. Be pounding that in places where they're feeling economic pain because that's the main spring of Trump's campaign. It isn't Trump. They're holding their nose. But they do think things were better under him and she's got to go right at that.

AXELROD: I do think the contrast is important though. I think the contrast of a guy who's totally consumed by himself and his vengeance and someone who's going to wake up every day thinking about how she can do constructive things to help people and solve problems. I think that's a powerful contrast.

[20:40:09]

COOPER: Does -- Mike, does --

MURPHY: I just think you can --

COOPER: Go ahead, Mike.

MURPHY: -- get tied up in the -- you know, telling voters who already think he's crazy, he's crazy. He's proving that every day. It's a gift to her. She's got to move the needle on her and it's a mix. It's a mix of things.

COOPER: Mike, do you think the Kamala Harris-Liz Cheney kind of road tour was help in any way? Is there really a big pool of people who think that might have influenced?

MURPHY: Yes. I think there's some. I mean, we're battling over microns here. You know, there are two needles to be moved. One is, can some Republicans come over and vote for her? And does Liz Cheney and what Romney has said about Trump give them a permission structure?

And, by the way, I'm telling my Republican friends who tell me I just can't vote for a Democrat, but I don't like Trump. I say, well, you can go halfway there. You don't have to vote for Trump. Skip the ballot, work your way down. It still takes a vote out of him in a key state that counts.

So, I think that permission structure is important, but it's a bunted single. The economic stuff is the most important, I think.

COOPER: I mean, every day we're seeing different polls and, you know, people wake up and freak out. David, Mike, I mean, how much stock do you put in polls at this time?

AXELROD: Listen --

MURPHY: Kamala (ph) --

AXELROD: -- if you add them all up, what they say is this is a really tight race, too tight for any poll to accurately predict. And it's going to go right down to the wire.

COOPER: Yes. David Axelrod, Mike Murphy, thanks for being with us. Their podcast is Hacks on Tap.

MURPHY: Thank you.

COOPER: Thanks so much.

Well, coming up, John King's new All Over The Map report from battleground Pennsylvania. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:53]

COOPER: John King recently returned to the suburbs of Philadelphia as he winds down his All Over The Map series. It looks at the people and places that could decide the election. Over the past 13 months, John and his team have made 25 trips to 10 states. Tonight he meets with one-time Nikki Haley supporters to see who they're backing now.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Pesce is methodical. A stickler for detail and preparation. Pennsylvania's archery deer season is now open. This range, a place to shoot targets and adjust your gear.

MICHAEL PESCE, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: There we go.

KING (voice-over): Rifle season is a month away. And at this stop, Pesce is no nonsense. Just a few shots to help him adjust the sight. Two more to let a visitor get a feel for the 30-06 deer (ph) rifle.

Conservative in every way. No wasted shots or time. Everything by the book. Not a fan of surprises. Yet, Pesce is voting for Kamala Harris because he is even less of a fan of Donald Trump.

KING: You're going to vote for her, but do you know what you're getting?

PESCE: No, I don't. And that's the scary part is, you know, I'm not voting for a candidate. I'm not voting for a policy. I'm voting against a candidate and policies. And not even all the policies, just, you know, the unstableness of some of the things he says are truly scary.

KING (voice-over): Pesce is a Reagan Republican, supported Nikki Haley in this year's GOP primaries. A Never Trumper in a place where that really matters. Bucks County, one of the suburban Philadelphia counties crucial to the math in battleground Pennsylvania. He wants his party back and sees a second Trump loss as essential.

PESCE: Then I think that the Republicans will start coming back to what they were, because they don't have that radical right side. They don't have the craziness and the instability.

KING (voice-over): Berks County is a bit more away from the city, more rural, and more Republican, yet not as deep and reliably read as just a few years ago.

JOAN LONDON, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: This neighborhood is becoming a lot like the Philadelphia suburbs. This is a primarily Republican leaning borough. Always has been. But when it comes to national elections, I do see more and more support for Democratic candidates.

KING (voice-over): Attorney Joan London switched her registration to independent after voting for Haley in the GOP primary. London was asked to join this local political program not long after our first visit five months ago. Back then, she told us she would write in a conservative because she viewed President Biden as too old.

And later, she told us she viewed Vice President Harris as too liberal and untested. But then she watched the Harris-Trump debate.

LONDON: The last straw was what he said about the Ukraine, where he said that we have to have a negotiated settlement. For someone who claims to be a conservative to say that was, in my opinion, outrageous. It's appeasement.

KING (voice-over): So London is now voting Harris, voting Democrat for president for the first time. Because she believes Trump must lose because she gets the battleground state math.

LONDON: I needed to vote against allowing him to become president again. I don't want it on my conscience that I contributed in some way to that. Sometimes you have to say, American first, conservative second, Republican third.

KING (voice-over): Media is in Delaware County, just outside Philly, reliably blue now. But still, a test of whether Harris can match or exceed Biden's 2020 math. It's also a big test for Trump. He lost the Philly suburbs in 2016, but narrowly won statewide. But he lost these suburbs by a bit more in 2020. And he narrowly lost Pennsylvania.

KING: We're getting to the end here. Have you made up your mind?

CYNTHIA SABATINI, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: No.

KING (voice-over): Cynthia Sabatini is another Never Trumper, another Haley primary voter, another Republican who won't vote for him, but isn't sure about her.

KING: Finish the sentence. Madam Vice President, if you want my vote here in the very important Philadelphia suburbs, you need to do --

[20:50:04]

SABATINI: You need to answer questions on point. You need to provide more details about your economic plan. You need to provide more details about your vision also for this country. I'm, you know, a bottom line person. I want details.

KING (voice-over): Sabatini is mad at local Democrats she sees as tax and spend happy.

KING: Is she going to pay the price for that?

SABATINI: She may. She may.

KING (voice-over): But she does see an upside for Harris over Trump.

SABATINI: I believe she's a person of character. I have no qualms about that. I really do. I think she's an upstanding individual. It's just that I really don't know what to expect from her if she is indeed elected.

KING (voice-over): Sabatini meditates frequently to clear her mind and reduce stress.

SABATINI: Deep inhalations and long exhalations.

KING (voice-over): She predicts a final day decision to either vote for Harris or to write in Haley. A vote to help score the suburbs and settle the biggest of the battlegrounds.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: John is back with us. Where does each candidate have to perform well in Pennsylvania?

KING (on-camera): It's a fascinating and it's a complicated state, Anderson. Let me just pop it up. In 2020, Joe Biden wins by 81,000 votes. You go back to 2016 and you look at the March and Donald Trump wins by just 44,000 votes, a little change.

So let's go back to 2020 and look at it. Why were we -- where we were there? About 40 percent of the votes is right there inside that line. And the bulk of that is more closely in here. The city of Philadelphia, the three collar counties around it, then you have Berks County where Joan London was right there.

So about 40 percent of the vote right down here. So that's why the suburbs are absolutely critical. Donald Trump did not win these suburbs in 2016, but the margins were closer with Hillary Clinton. He lost a point or two in each of those suburbs. In 2020, and Joe Biden won the state. So that's where you look for most of it.

A couple of swing counties as well. You see all that red, Trump's going to run it up in the rural areas. We know that. It's going to come down to who wins the suburbs.

COOPER: All right. John King, thanks very much.

Coming up next, a report from storm ravaged North Carolina on those still missing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:28]

COOPER: It's been nearly months since Hurricane Helene wrecked Western North Carolina. According to a recent state report, 95 people are confirmed dead. At least 26 people are still unaccounted for.

Gary Tuchman went to Western North Carolina to speak with a woman whose family came to the state for a better life until it was upended by Hurricane Helene.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hurricane Helene demolished the North Caroline home of Anna Wiebe, her husband and two sons. But it's what happened here about a mile away on this now empty lot that has shattered her.

ANNA WIEBE, RELATIVE OF HURRICANE VICTIMS: I'm trying to stay strong for my family because I have to.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Anna moved to the United States from Ukraine 25 years ago, seeking better opportunities. But two years ago, following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, her mother Tetiana, her sister Anastasia, Anastasia's husband Dmytro, and their 13-year-old son Yevhenii all fled war torn Ukraine and settled here, in what was peaceful and quiet Yancey County, North Carolina.

In this home, a 10-minute walk away from Anna and her family. A home which no longer exists on the empty lot.

All four were home as Hurricane Helene ravaged western North Carolina. They were swept away. The bodies, a wife and husband, found about two weeks later, miles away from where the house was. Son and grandmother are still missing to this day. For Anna, her husband Ryan, and their sons, it doesn't feel real.

A. WIEBE: I'm just still in disbelief and heartbroken. And I'm still thinking maybe I will wake up from this dream and everything will be back how it was.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): This video was shot by Anna's husband as the nearby river started rapidly rising. They realized they needed to evacuate, but by then cell phones and electricity were no longer working. All four of them frantically tried to get to the home of the relatives.

RYAN WIEBE, RELATIVE OF HURRICANE VICTIMS: Trees are down and we had to walk halfway to get through. I have no shoes on. Going through the woods. And we get down to the location of we think where it was and it was hundreds of yards wide of water.

TUCHMAN: Their house was gone?

R. WIEBE: Gone.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Anna knows her missing mother and nephew are presumed dead. But --

A. WIEBE: I still have hope. Just because unless I've been proven wrong, I will be still hoping that miracle could happen. Maybe my nephew still survives somewhere and we just don't know where he is.

TUCHMAN: The South Toe River is now its tranquil self, but for this family, its fury on September 27th was impossible to comprehend and is now impossible to ever forget.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Anna and Ryan hope to build a new home close by, but on higher ground.

TUCHMAN: Please tell me what you would tell your sister and your mother right now if you could talk to them.

A. WIEBE: I would tell them how much I love them. And that if I would go back, I would change it so none of this we would go through. And we would be still all together.

TUCHMAN: But they know how much you love them.

A. WIEBE: I think they do.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

TUCHMAN (on-camera): Anderson, Anna and her family are now staying at Ryan's mother's house about a half mile away. It's a small home. It's not an optimal situation. The power has been out ever since the hurricane.

Meanwhile, the extended family has set up a GoFundMe page for the Wiebes. Their expenses will be huge in the months to come. Not only do they want to build a new home, they are taking care of the arrangements of their loved ones who have passed away. Anderson?

COOPER: Gary Tuchman. Gary, thank you.

On programming note, CNN will be live all night with the latest in a breaking news. Israel's military has confirmed strikes on Iran, retaliation for Iranian strikes on Israel more than three weeks ago.

That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you on Monday. The Source when Kaitlan Collins starts now. Have a good weekend.