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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Democrats Criticize Biden Pardon: "Wrong," "Unwise;" Hegseth Under New Scrutiny; Kash Patel, Trump's Pick for FBI Director; Trump FBI Pick Vowed To Shut FBI Headquarter On Day 1; U.S. President Biden Pardons Son As Trump Slams "Miscarriage Of Justice"; Syria's Military Counterattacks After Rebels Seize Aleppo; Ukrainian Soldiers Have Three Seconds To Shoot Down A Russian Attack Drone. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 02, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The pop legend's presence on stage at the Devil Wears Prada gala was cheered on Sunday night after talking about his health challenges, and then praising the musical's performers.
ELTON JOHN, BRITISH SINGER-SONGWRITER AND PIANIST: Boys sounded good tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WAGMEISTER (on camera): Now Erin, I was lucky enough to be invited as a guest to one of Elton's final shows during his farewell tour there you see, and he was really just incredible, to see him well in his 70s commanding the stage so he will go on, of course.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Gosh, it's unbelievable, a miracle that you got to see that. Thanks so much to you and thanks so much to all of you for being with us. AC360 begins now.
[20:00:45]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, Democrats publicly criticize President Biden for pardoning his son, Hunter, particularly for previously and repeatedly saying this was never going to happen.
Also tonight, stunning new reporting of "The New Yorker" on Pete Hegseth president-elect's pick for defense secretary. Misconduct allegations involving alcohol, women and mismanagement at a veterans organization he was involved with. The author, Jane Mayer, joins us with details.
And who is Kash Patel? Details about Trumps new nominee to run the FBI.
Good evening.
Tonight, even Democratic allies are publicly criticizing President Biden's pardoning pardon of his son, Hunter. One senator today called it wrong; another unwise; a third said, it erodes American's faith of the justice system is fair and equal for all. Congressman Jason Crow told "The New York Times" the pardon makes it hard for the party in the future to "talk about upholding democracy."
And both Democratic Senators from Virginia had this to say to reporters on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): I'm disappointed in terms of the signal it sends to faith in our American system and I'll leave it at that.
REPORTER: Are you disappointed by the decision?
WARNER: Yes, I'm disappointed by the decision.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): He didn't need to tell the American public. I will not do this, and he did. And when you made a promise, you've got to keep it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President Biden issued the pardon Sunday night. Accompanying it was a brief statement that repeatedly claimed the justice process was politicized. "I have watched my son being selectively and unfairly prosecuted. It is clear that Hunter was treated differently. Hunter was singled out only because he is my son and that is wrong. There's no reason to believe it will stop here. Enough is enough." He ended the letter this way, "I hope Americans will understand why a father and a president would come to this decision."
Now, much of the criticism from allies and adversaries alike stems from a repeated promise from both Biden and the White House that this was never going to happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS: Let me ask you, will you accept the jury's outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.
MUIR: And have you ruled out a pardon for your son?
BIDEN: Yes.
MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Is there any possibility that the president would end up pardoning his son?
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No.
MEREDITH: Well. Is there --
JEAN-PIERRE: I just said no. I just answered --
REPORTER: Will the president pardon or commute his son if he's convicted?
JEAN-PIERRE: So I've answered this question before. It was asked of me not too long ago, a couple of weeks ago, and I was very clear and I said, no.
BIDEN: And I am satisfied that I'm not going to do anything. I said, I'll abide by the jury decision and I will do that, and I will not pardon him.
REPORTER: He said several times that the president would not pardon or commute the sentences for his son, Hunter. I just want to make sure that that is not going to change over the next six months, the president's saying --
JEAN-PIERRE: It's still a no. It's still a no.
REPORTER: It will always be a no.
JEAN-PIERRE: It's still a no. It will be a no. It is a no. And I don't have anything else to add. Will he pardon his son. No.
REPORTER: His son, Hunter is also up for being sentenced next month. Does the president have any intention of pardoning him?
JEAN-PIERRE: We've been asked that question multiple times. Our answer stands, which is, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The last denial came two days after the election. Today, the press secretary appeared to indicate that the pardon wouldn't have happened if Vice President Harris won and then backtracked.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think this would have happened if Harris hadn't lost the election?
JEAN-PIERRE: Look, I'm not going to get into the election. It is a no. I can answer that it is a no. And what I can say --
REPORTER: It's a no -- this would not have happened if Harris hadn't lost the election. The pardon would not have happened if Harris hadn't lost the election.
JEAN-PIERRE: I can speak to where we are today, and so I can't speak to hypotheticals here.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, sources tell CNN that Biden made the decision after Thanksgiving. Hunter Biden pleaded guilty to nine federal tax charges in September. In June, he was convicted by a jury of illegally buying and possessing a gun as a drug user. Today, David Weiss, the special prosecutor in both cases, pushed back on the president's characterization in a court filing, saying, "There was none and never has been any evidence of vindictive or selective prosecution in this case."
Now, this is what the pardon looks like. It is a full and unconditional pardon that covers offenses from 2014 to the present. That means it grants clemency for the federal tax and gun offenses. It also covers any potential legal actions involving his overseas work in Ukraine and China making it difficult for Republicans to revisit any potential federal crimes during that nearly 11-year period.
[20:05:12]
Hours after the pardon was granted, the incoming president appeared to tie Hunter Biden's pardon to possible ones he said to be considering for those charged and convicted in relation to the January 6th attack on the Capitol.
"Does the pardon given by Joe to Hunter include the J-6 hostages who have now been imprisoned for years? Such an abuse and miscarriage of justice."
Now, we should note that, according to an August update by the Justice Department, more than 500 of those people he calls hostages were charged with assaulting resisting or impeding law enforcement officers or employees, and that includes more than 160 charged with using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer.
We're joined now by our Kaitlan Collins, David Axelrod, former senior adviser to President Obama, former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin author of the forthcoming book "The Pardon: The Politics of Presidential Mercy," which is out in February, and Republican strategist, Shermichael Singleton.
Jeff, obviously well-timed for your book, but you write in "The New York Times" today, you said, "Mr. Biden's love for his son, as well as his anger about the way he was treated was understandable. But the presidents consummate act of nepotism has stained the record of the Biden presidency." Do you think this was an abuse of power?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, AUTHOR, "THE PARDON": I think it was a mistake. It was a really important mistake. Look, the prosecution came down very hard on him, but it's important to remember that he was guilty of these 12 felonies. You know nine, that he pleaded guilty to, three was convicted by a jury, lots of people get leaned on by the federal government in this country. Lots of people plead guilty in difficult situations are convicted, and they don't get pardons.
This president in particular has been very stingy about pardons. He's only granted 25 other pardons when other presidents have granted substantially more. So, the idea of singling out his son, I think just sends a terrible message about who gets preferential treatment in this country.
COOPER: And the scope of this pardon of nearly 11 years. Does that surprise you?
TOOBIN: Yes. I mean, most pardons are much more narrowly tailored to the specific offenses they're charged with. But this just illustrates. And here you have to have a certain degree of sympathy for Biden. He is trying to expand the circle of immunity that he has because Kash Patel and Donald Trump have said that they are going after their enemies, and he's trying to protect his son from further prosecution.
But again, its special treatment that looks very bad because it is bad.
COOPER: David, in his statement, President Biden said he believed that, "raw politics infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice" which, I mean, it kind of echoes some of the sentiment that Donald Trump and others have made about weaponization of the Department of Justice under President Biden, doesn't it?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It sure does, yes. Look, the president knew all of that when he said repeatedly that he wouldn't pardon his son. I mean, he said that after the verdicts were in. So, I agree with Jeff. I think part of it was defensive, worried about what they may do after he leaves office, going back to some of the other investigations into Hunter Biden.
But look, everybody in America knows how much loss the Bidens have suffered I think that factors in here. He lost two children. He didn't want to lose one more. And so, I have sympathy for him. But he said, "I hope the American people will understand that my act as a father and a president." I think people will understand his act as a father but not as a president.
And one of the things that confused me Anderson, was just as a tactical matter, wouldn't it have been better to pardon a whole bunch of people who deserve pardons as part of a pardon that gestures to throw this out here alone and hop on a plane to Africa on a Sunday night. It was just handled poorly on top of everything else.
COOPER: Kaitlan, we mentioned the president-elect's statement on the pardon. Does it change anything for how the Trump team is approaching the transition? Does it impact the, you know, what he may do on the with the people who are still being held for their crimes on January sixth?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I don't think Donald Trump is someone who is often looking for political cover, Anderson. But certainly this would give him that. That's the thinking that I've heard from his allies down here in Palm Beach as they're approaching this. That was certainly his initial reaction yesterday.
But really, what they've pointed to is not even necessarily that he pardoned Hunter Biden. It's what he said for the last several months that people have pointed to and used at the moments that President Biden made these very defiant and decisive statements that he was not going to be pardoning him and that he would respect what the jury decided and how that was covered.
Because at the time, remember, people were drawing a contrast between what President Biden was saying then when he was still running against Donald Trump and what Donald Trump was vowing to do with the Justice Department, saying, look at this very clear contrast. And what Trump allies have noted today is just the hypocrisy of that, of saying for months that you're not going to do something. And then of course, ultimately pardoning his son even though, as David noted, it was on his argument that he was doing this not just as a president, but also as a father.
[20:10:37]
And so, that's something that I've seen them point to multiple times. And I think it's not even just this moment in the in the aspect and the prospect of a pardon here and what that looks like and what Trump might do when he has the pardon power again. I mean, Trump wielded his pardon power pretty generously when he was in office the last time, Anderson.
But it's in terms of these Senate confirmations, because look at what Senator Tom Cotton said today when he was saying he doesn't want to hear from Democrats complaining about, you know, what Trumps nominees are saying about the Justice Department and whether or not its corrupt or not. People like Kash Patel and Pam Bondi, the FBI director pick and the attorney general pick, respectively, because they're saying Biden is saying the same thing in his statement.
He's not just saying, I changed my mind. He's going after the Justice Department in that statement.
COOPER: I mean, Shermichael, were you surprised by Biden doing that in his statement?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I was surprised because for three-and-a-half, almost four years now I've heard repeatedly by Democrats, individuals at the White House that that's essentially undermining our justice system. That's essentially undermining the norms of our country and here you have the sitting president going after his own Justice Department, saying, well, these charges would not have been brought because his son's last name happened to be Biden.
Now, look, I wrote an opinion piece at the time, Anderson, disagreeing with the case as it pertains to the firearm issue. I have a host of issues being a firearms guy myself, but there is a lot of precedent with other individuals particularly of color, being charged with the same crime. Hunter Biden isn't somehow absolved or special because he's the president's son. So I think that's a complete nonsense.
On the tax charge, I would argue there are a whole host of other individuals that have had to deal with other issues very similar, such as Wesley Snipes, a known actor, who actually had to go to prison. He didn't get a pardon.
And so, there's a ton of hypocrisy here from my perspective as a conservative. I agree with what Jeffrey Toobin said and what Axelrod said, most people would understand. Look, this is your son, we get it. You're going to do this. Most people would agree, it's the perpetual lying over and over and over again. It's the -- I am somehow morally superior to Trump or to Republicans. And yet you do the same thing. You make the same argument you're not superior at all. I would argue you're perhaps a little bit worse.
COOPER: Jeff, I mean to the point about the January 6th people who have been convicted, do you think this kind of opens the door for them?
TOOBIN: It makes it more likely. And I think it already was likely. You know, there are 1,500 people convicted in the broad January Sixth investigation, whether he pardons every single one of them or just several hundred I think is certainly --
COOPER: Most of them have already --
TOOBIN: Most of them have completed their sentences or they weren't sentenced to prison in the first place, but there are several hundred still in prison including some for extreme crimes of violence.
Will Trump pardon them all? I don't know, but I think the likelihood of a substantial number of pardons went up today because of what Biden did yesterday.
David, I want to play what Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville said about the pardon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): Well, I'll put it this way if it was my son, I'd pardon him, too. But here's what I didn't like. Don't lie to us. Don't tell us you're not going to do it and then do it. That's not what a president should be like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: David, do you think that's reaction to something most people, especially parents would probably agree with?
AXELROD: Well, yes, everybody saw the opening of your show. I think so. I think so, but the other thing is he got a lot of credit for, and I think deservedly so, for not interfering in his son's case for saying this. We're going to -- I'm going to respect the rule of law. I trust the Justice Department and so on. And all of that seems like a lie now, too, which really does have material impact for an already skeptical public.
COOPER: Yes.
TOOBIN: And it just contributes to the cynicism that people have about the whole system. And I think that helps President Trump because he's the one who says he wants to tear everything up. This looks like everybody just takes care of their own.
COOPER: Everybody, thanks. Reminding next hour Kaitlan is going to be interviewing Senator Mike Bennett for her show "The Source" at the top of the hour. He's the Democratic Senator we mentioned who said that the pardon erodes American's faith in the justice system. Coming up, more damning reporting out on Trump's pick to lead the Defense Department. There is a fascinating article in "The New Yorker" by Jane Mayer reporting Pete Hegseth was pushed out as the head of two veteran's advocacy organizations after allegations of mismanagement and personal misconduct. I'll talk to the author next.
Also Kash Patel said he'd close down shut it down, the FBI headquarters on day one of the Trump administration. Now, he's been tapped to lead the FBI. We'll have more details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:20]
COOPER: Pete Hegseth, President-elect Trump's controversial pick for Secretary of Defense was on Capitol Hill tonight to shore up support ahead of what's expected to be a contentious confirmation hearing in the Senate.
Hegseth and his wife met with around a dozen Republican lawmakers. He is accused of sexually assaulting a woman in 2017, something that reportedly did not come up in his meeting with Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville or other lawmakers.
Wyoming Senator Cynthia Lummis reportedly dismissed concerns over Hegseth's alleged misconduct saying that soldiers can be, "wild child," but senators on both sides of the aisle have indicated they'd like to question Hegseth about the allegation and that was before two new pieces of reporting from over the long holiday weekend raised further questions.
The headline, "The New York Times" Pete Hegseth's mother accused her son of mistreating women for years. And in "The New Yorker," Pete Hegseth's secret history, a whistleblower report and other documents suggest that Trump's nominee to run the Pentagon was forced out of previous leadership positions for financial management, sexist behavior, and being repeatedly intoxicated on the job. The author of that piece in "The New Yorker," Jane Mayer, joins me now.
It's a fascinating article and incredibly well-researched. Can you just walk us through, I mean, sort of the crux of it. For example, you're reporting on an e-mail you say was sent to Hegseth's successor at Concerned Veterans for America and it reads in part, "Among the staff, the disgust for Pete was pretty high. Most veterans do not think he represents them, nor their high standard of excellence." Talk a little bit about what happened at these two organizations.
[20:20:50]
JANE MAYER, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORKER: Well in both of these organizations, they're nonprofits that Pete Hegseth was the leader of. And both of them eventually took control away from him. They pushed him out.
The first one was called Vets for Freedom and actually, it was a CNN contributor, Margaret Hoover, who was an advisor to the group and went on CNN and talked about this a little bit, a little while ago.
COOPER: Yes, I saw that.
MAYER: And she said that basically, yes, I mean, they felt that he couldn't manage this organization. And it was an organization of just between five and 10 people with a budget of between $5 million and $10 million.
So, I mean, what she wondered was, how on earth is he going to be able to manage the Pentagon with an organization that has a budget of something like between you know, $750 billion and, and he was pushed out in that organization, the first one, because of financial mismanagement. He ran it right to the edge of bankruptcy and had to beg for more money from the donors. They couldn't pay the creditors and I mean, it was just a financial mess and eventually they took control away from him.
The next organization was Concerned Veterans for America and he ran into an awful lot of other very serious problems there, too, which I think anybody who reads this piece and who read this whistleblower report would find really concerning.
I mean, the behavior described by the people that he worked with really was the kind of behavior that would get anybody fired in almost any office in America, just near-constant allegations of drunkenness, people -- him being blackout drunk, having to be carried to his hotel room. There was sort of a whistle stop tour that they were on, he was described as, you know, offensive, abusive, had to be taken off the stage of a strip club to stop from dancing with the women in it, and he'd taken his team to this strip club. They had to restrain him.
COOPER: Was that the bar where he was allegedly yelling about killing Muslims?
MAYER: No, this was recorded, it's so detailed and it's a different bar and most and that was actually a different document. There are documents that there was a letter from one of the people that he worked with who sent it to the management saying he was really horrified by what he described as "despicable" behavior which was Pete Hegseth closing down a bar at 2:30 in the morning in Ohio chanting "Kill All Muslims, Kill All Muslims."
Which again, of course, is concerning for someone who might run the Pentagon.
COOPER: Do you know if the Trump team knew of the concern within the veteran's community, or did they know, you know, about his track record at these two organizations?
MAYER: Well the lawyer for Pete Hegseth who had two days to respond to the allegations in this story and who did not deny a single one of them, said he was conferring with the transition, the Trump transition. So, presumably they do know now, but they certainly did not know about the rape allegation against him and they also didn't know that he had paid off a woman who had accused him of raping her. And then secretly -- done it in secret because it was covered up by a nondisclosure agreement.
COOPER: Jane Mayer, it's an eye opening article. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
MAYER: Thanks so much for having me on.
COOPER: Coming up another pick by the president elect this time for FBI director, who is, Kash Patel. We have details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:28:50]
COOPER: Now the other major political announcement that broke over the weekend involving the Justice Department. The president-elect's pick for FBI director, Kash Patel, just the latest in a series of nominees who is likely to face an uphill battle in a confirmation process, in part because of his lack of top level law enforcement experience, but also because of his loyalty to Trump and what he has said he wants to accomplish as head of the FBI. Randi Kaye tonight has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: I'd shut down the FBI Hoover building on day one.
RANDI KAYE, CNN JOURNALIST (voice over): Kash Patel has big plans to shake up the FBI if he's confirmed as FBI director under president Donald Trump. He blames the so-called deep state for weaponizing government and going after Trump.
PATEL: We are on a mission to annihilate the deep state.
KAYE (voice over): His plan for the FBI's Hoover building, if he were to shut it down.
PATEL: Reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state. And I'd take the 7,000 employees that work in that building and send them across America to chase down criminals. Go be cops.
KAYE (voice over): Patel was a House Republican aide also accused the deep state and the FBI of fabricating a Trump-Russia scandal during the 2016 election only to sabotage Trump. While an inspector general later found no political bias in the FBI probe, Patel criticized mistakes made in securing surveillance warrants.
PATEL: I was a lead investigator where we exposed the Russiagate crimes, that Comey, McCabe, Strzok and Page and so many others committed.
REPORTER: Mr. Patel, did you answer any of the questions --
KAYE (voice over): In 2020 when Patel was working in the Pentagon, he promoted Trump's false claims that the 2020 election had been stolen.
Since then, he's threatened to prosecute journalists who dismissed the election falsehoods.
PATEL: We're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you, whether its criminally or civilly, we'll figure that out. But yes, we're putting you all on notice.
[20:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): -- later found no political bias in the FBI probe, Patel criticized mistakes made in securing surveillance warrants.
KASH PATEL, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO ACTING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I was a lead investigator where he exposed the Russiagate crimes that Comey, McCabe, Strzok, and Page, and so many others committed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Patel, did you answer any of the questions?
KAYE (voice-over): In 2020, when Patel was working in the Pentagon, he promoted Trump's false claims that the 2020 election had been stolen. Since then, he's threatened to prosecute journalists who dismissed the election falsehoods.
PATEL: We're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you. Whether it's criminally or civilly, we'll figure that out. But yeah, we're putting you all on notice.
KAYE (voice-over): Patel also promoted Q, the so-called anonymous leader of QAnon, a movement that has spread conspiracy theories.
PATEL: There's a lot of good to a lot of it. He should get credit for all the things he has accomplished because it's hard to establish a movement.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE (on-camera): And Anderson, Patel actually got his start as an entry-level public defender here in South Florida. He then went on to become a federal prosecutor focusing on terrorism. And then he joined the first Trump White House as an aide and also worked at the Pentagon as an aide. But it is worth noting, Anderson, and this really does speak to his bravado.
He has said repeatedly that he was the lead prosecutor in the Benghazi investigation into the attack on the U.S. compound in Libya, where four Americans died. Well, it turned out he was not. According to The New York Times, he was just a junior Justice Department staffer at the time and was not part of the trial team, Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: All right, Randi Kaye, thanks very much. We're speaking now from John Miller, our Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, former Trump White House Communications Director, Anthony Scaramucci. And back with us Shermichael Singleton.
John, what is your reaction to Kash Patel?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, on paper, you could argue that he is a qualified candidate for FBI director as a former public defender on the local level, as a former federal public defender in the federal courts. And then as someone who, as Randi pointed out, arguably was a federal prosecutor, albeit not much in court, mostly in the national security branch of the Justice Department at headquarters. So there's that.
The difficulty there is even if he is qualified to some minimal level, is he suitable? And that has to do with the FBI director. And you can go back as many directors as you want in the post-Hoover years. It's supposed to fly above politics, be apolitical.
Their politics are supposed to be invisible, a mystery. For someone who is so nakedly political for a particular candidate, for a particular doctrine to become the director of the FBI, is really sending shivers through the hallways of the Hoover building.
COOPER: Which I guess is part of, Anthony, the idea.
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Trump likes that. I mean, the president likes that. So listen, I mean, this is just my take. It's the same thing with Matt Gaetz. The president feels, the president-elect feels he's got a slate of people that are MAGA people. He's going to put those up if they can get through.
I think even he himself will be surprised by that. But he's doing that because he looks at his base and saying, these are for you. You know, Marco Rubio's for the governing. Somebody like Walsh would be for the governing. These are for the base. By the way, if they don't get through, I've got Pam Bondi right behind him five minutes later.
And I think it's the same thing with Kash Patel. I don't think the expectation is that he's going to get through. Because just look at the obvious stuff. You just have to watch two interviews. Don't watch the snippets. Watch two interviews of Kash Patel with Steve Bannon. Watch the whole thing.
And if you're a United States senator and you're a respectable Republican senator, watch the whole thing. And then ask yourself, if you really love your country, do you want Kash Patel to be the FBI director? And I think the president will have somebody in the queue five minutes after he steps out of that position of nomination.
COOPER: Shermichael, I mean, the president campaigned on disrupting the FBI. This is a guy who says he would shut down the headquarters on day one, promoted QAnon. Is he qualified?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, I think based on what John said, he has some legitimate experience. Now, whether or not he is the optimal person, I mean, that's a bit subjective, I would argue. But look, you know, I want to look at this a bit differently here, Anderson.
I know we've pointed out some of the critiques that Donald Trump has had about various agencies within our government or the way politics or lawfare, some Republicans will refer to it. But I would say that's not very different from what we just recently heard from President Biden in his statement about his own son. When he articulated a, quote, miscarriage of justice or, quote, in trying to break Hunter, they've tried to break me.
So it seems to me that the sitting president and the president-elect have very similar views on the FBI, potentially, and maybe the Justice Department in terms of politics infusing themselves into both of those different agencies.
[20:35:00]
COOPER: John, the, you know, we know what the FBI looks like when it's run by somebody like J. Edgar Hoover. I mean, they targeted people all the time. They went after, I mean, Hoover had secret files on everybody. What happens to an organization if the head is not playing it straight, is not trying to be kind of above the fray?
MILLER: Well, I mean, that's what all this fear and loathing is coming from, is, you know, Kash Patel's statements about the FBI or about the intent of his role in any Trump administration that he made weeks and months ago portends two things. One, you need to throw everybody out of FBI headquarters.
Well, that brings the FBI 25 years back to before 9/11, where there wasn't an international terrorist operations center, a domestic terrorist operations section, a terrorist finance section, all of these things that call together these informations from 56 field offices and connect those dots. It's actually how and why we had a 9/11. So to take, to dismantle that is to not understand it.
COOPER: Because that's one of the things that Kash Patel was saying, was send all the people working in headquarters out into the, back into the field and be cops.
MILLER: Right. And the second thing is, to make statements about, we're going to go after people. Look, the Department of Justice guidelines, at least as they stand now, say the FBI is barred from investigating any activities that are purely First Amendment protected activities. He says, we're going to go after critics and we're going to go after reporters. It's as if you're going from fidelity, bravery, and integrity.
SCARAMUCCI: We're in trouble, we're going to get you. You've told my last presentation before I'm deported.
COOPER: We've talked about, you know, in the past, Trump used to say, you know, when he was president, you know, or he would reportedly had said, you know, where's my Roy Cohen? It does seem like a lot of the selects he is making, to your point, are ideologues who he believes would be loyal to him. SCARAMUCCI: Yes. But I, again, I don't, do you think he thought Matt Gaetz was getting through the process? You really think he thought that? I mean, I would find it hard to believe that he thought that.
COOPER: I think he's throwing up a lot of different options.
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, and he's got a very confident chief of staff in Susie Wiles. I don't -- I see the Matt Gaetz thing is I'm going to throw that out there, see what happens. And literally within five minutes, because this is him, Matt Gaetz hit by a bus and Pam Bondi shows up, you know, for the next appointment spot.
Kash Patel is dangerous. And if you put him in and you're a Republican senator listening to this program, do your homework on Kash Patel. He is a dangerous person. He'd be bad for America. And he'd also be bad for Donald Trump. You know, there's a question in the prompter about whether or not Trump is going to use the FBI as his personal police force.
Well, I can tell you right now, America does not want that. America did not sign up for that. And if Donald Trump wants that, I think I would even be surprised by that. But I would tell you that Kash Patel wants that. Just listen to the way he talks to people. So if you're a Republican senator, do what you did on Matt Gaetz. Get in the room privately and say, hey, this is not going to happen.
Now, the president could say, you know, we're going to put him in place anyway. He'll have 200 days to run the FBI. But I don't believe that the president's going to do that. The president's going to say, you know what? I won the election. I've got a lot of good people that are going to come work for me. These were the MAGA people that I put in place. If they can't get through, let's move on. He's a successful politician, Donald Trump.
Whether you like him or dislike him, he won the election. He has the right to put people up. But he can't put up lunatics, OK? And I think this guy is in that category. And if he makes it, you know, hopefully there's a place in your basement where you'll put me. You know, I mean, this is sort of nonsense. The guy's out there saying that he's going to go after people for their exercising of their First Amendment rights.
If that isn't disqualifying in this amazing country, what is, Anderson? Anthony Scaramucci, thank you. John Miller as well as Shermichael Singleton. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, more perspective on how President Biden's decision to pardon his son Hunter could affect his legacy. A talk with Peggy Noonan, former speechwriter for President Reagan, about her remarkable new book and her thoughts on what's happening today. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:43:20] COOPER: Turning to your top story, President Biden's decision to pardon his son Hunter, reversing a promise the president made repeatedly not to do just that. Hunter Biden faced sentencing this month for federal tax and gun convictions. The debate around the historic pardon will no doubt play a role in shaping his father's legacy.
I'm joined right now by former speechwriter for President Reagan, Peggy Noonan. She's the author of a new book, "A Certain Idea of America," which is so wonderful. And I was saying to you, I find so comforting in these times to just sort of have a I don't know, you can turn to any page and it's just it's like a bomb.
So thank you. One of the things I wanted to ask you about was some of what you wrote about President Biden. This was you wrote in September of 2023. You said in insisting on running, he's making historical mistake. Second terms are disaster sites. Always now he isn't up to it. It will cloud what his supporters believe is a fine legacy and allow Kamala Harris problem and allow the Kamala Harris problem to fester and grow. She's proof that profound and generational party dominance in the state tends to yield mediocrity. They rely on personal charm, but are superficial, going national requires developing more depth or at least imitating depth. She didn't bother to do that.
PEGGY NOONAN, AUTHOR, "A CERTAIN IDEA OF AMERICA": Yes.
COOPER: What do you think this pardon will do now to the legacy?
NOONAN: What will the party do?
COOPER: The pardon.
NOONAN: I beg your pardon --
COOPER: The pardon that he has given to his son.
NOONAN: The pardon of Hunter.
COOPER: Yes.
NOONAN: Oh, my gosh. It makes nothing better, I think, as Americans view their government. They already feel a little detached. They will feel more so. They feel a little cynical. They'll feel more so.
It's -- I think another erosion in the bonds of trust.
[20:45:03]
And it doesn't help that the president had said so emphatically bonds of trust. And it doesn't help that the president had said so emphatically and so often that he would not do this and he was not considering it. So it looks not good.
COOPER: This gets me to something else you have in the book, which I just loved, which was a piece you wrote in September 2021 called "America Has Lost the Thread." And you say the grief felt and you're talking about the ceremonies marking 9/11.
The grief felt and expressed had to do with more than the memories of that day 20 years ago. It also had to do with right now. It had to do with the sense that we are losing the thread, that America is losing the thread. We compared we couldn't help it. It is the nature of memory, the America of now with the America of 20 years ago. And we see a deterioration. We feel disturbance at this because we don't know if we can get our weight back.
The losing of the thread feels bigger than ideology, bigger, certainly than parties. It feels like some more it feels like some more fundamental confusion, an inability to play the role of who we are and to be comfortable in who we are.
NOONAN: Yes.
COOPER: That was 2021.
NOONAN: Yes.
COOPER: That feels more today than before.
NOONAN: Yes, you know, I've been sort of noodling around with the idea that there is something that feels we're almost at the first quarter. We're almost done with the first quarter of the 21st century.
COOPER: It's incredible to think of.
NOONAN: It is because we're still sort of thinking it's kind of new. It's not. We're well into it. 1925 was well into the 20th century.
So we're well into this thing. And I think we feel more formless in a way and less confidence and less confident in the way things are going and in our country. I actually have kind of a feeling that a majority of the American people are thinking about the 21st century and thinking, I don't like that so far.
And it may have to do, of course, with our politics and our choices for leaders, a little back and forth and a little drama.
COOPER: Also, I mean, I have a two-year-old and a four-year-old. I now think about, my gosh, what will the world look like when they are adults? What should they learn in school? How do you think about the future?
NOONAN: Look, I think one way to look at it is, wow, AI, you know, all of these changes, wars in Ukraine. It does feel like a dangerous time. But one of the reasons I read a lot of history and go back to history in this book is that it reminds you that it's always a mess. It's always a charnel house.
America is always struggling. And things, not infrequently in the 20th century, looked a little bleak. And yet we got through that. All of my reading of history has been about the phrase, we got through that. We got through World War I. COOPER: I felt hopeful. I mean, I think what I love about this book
is, at first, you can turn to any page and read something that is beautifully written. But also, there is hope pretty much on every page about the potential for who we are, the potential for what this country is.
NOONAN: And also, I go back a lot to the great people of America. They are us. They are in our DNA. They are fabulous, from artists to political figures to military leaders who look mad at the time, in their own time. And I take some inspiration from them and remind myself that they are part of what we are pulling forward as we live each day.
And I do, as messy as our history is, I do take comfort in it. We got through that.
COOPER: Peggy Noonan, the book is "A Certain Idea of America," and it is wonderful. Thank you.
NOONAN: Thank you so much. Thanks Anderson.
COOPER: We'll have a report about the situation in Syria. We'll be right back.
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[20:53:15]
COOPER: Syrian and Russian jets are striking back after rebel forces took Aleppo in Syria. Here's the moment of impact from one strike on a busy road there. Again, that is in Aleppo. Joining us with more is CNN's Clarissa Ward.
Clarissa, what's the latest you're hearing from Aleppo?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So what we're hearing now, according to the U.N., Anderson, is that 44 people have been killed in the fighting that has been taking place in the last five days. And the majority of those people have been killed in Russian airstrikes, regime airstrikes. We're really seeing those start to ratchet up on the back of this stunning offensive, which, frankly, left all of us, including those of us who have covered since 2011, just kind of in a state of shock.
I mean, Syria had effectively quashed the rebellion, quashed the uprising, but Bashar al-Assad did that with the help of some very powerful proxies, none more powerful than the Russian air force. But it seems that the rebels have taken advantage of this moment and seized the momentum. And they are going even further, not just in Aleppo and the northern Aleppo countryside, but now potentially poised for an offensive on the central Syrian city of Hama, where they have been telegraphing to local people tonight that they should stay away from regime figures and regime forces, as everybody just sort of waits to see what will happen next, Anderson.
COOPER: And the question of Russia and Iran and their potential involvement, I mean, you talk about Russia bombing already. How much could they get involved now?
[20:55:00]
WARD: Well, this is the really interesting question, because the obvious speculation in terms of how did this happen and why did it happen now is because, obviously, Russia has been very, very distracted with the war in Ukraine. Iran has been very distracted with Israel's bombardment, with the losses that its proxies have been facing in the Middle East.
And Hezbollah has been virtually decimated after two months of heavy fighting with Israel. And so it's possible that because those various supporters really kind of took their eye off the ball and were not deploying their full assets and resources to Syria, that the rebels thought this would be the moment to step in.
Now, the question is, how long do they let Assad dangle in the wind, so to speak, before stepping in to save him? As I said before, those Russian airstrikes are definitely ratcheting up. President Assad is very valuable to the Russians. They have a big base in the Port of Tartus, and he's an important ally strategically.
Interesting to see, though, what will happen with Iran, with Hezbollah, how deeply they will get involved with all that is going on across this region. And more broadly, I would just say, Anderson, that while there are a lot of people who are somewhat jubilant at seeing this offensive because there is such animosity towards Assad, who has committed so many egregious war crimes against the Syrian people, there's also a lot of unease about this rebel offensive, about the makeup of these rebel groups. And there's broader concern that this region simply can't take any more instability, Anderson.
COOPER: Clarissa Ward, thank you so much. Now, Russia's war in Ukraine. The U.S. State Department announced today more military assistance for Kyiv, a package worth $725 million. Tonight, we take you to the front lines, where Ukrainian troops must act quickly to try to stop a Russian drone attack.
Here's Nick Paton Walsh.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They have a three-second window. Rushing out with a U.S.-supplied stinger and an aging anti-aircraft gun to shoot down Russian attack drones in the fleeting moment they fly overhead in range.
Three kilometers from them. They could hit that and prepare to. But the radar is wrong, and they pause to hear it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): Turn there.
WALSH (voice-over): So, reposition the entire truck, but suddenly, the drone has vanished. It sounded like a decoy. But that usually means others are coming, and the sky is filling up with drones in the next region.
A month ago, the targets here seemed endless. November was a record month for drones across Ukraine that usually crash into towns, not this empty field. Their sound slices through the dark.
WALSH: It was pretty low and close, and while they think this is Ukrainian drones headed for Russia, the Russians also use this moment to take the same routes to try and sneak their drones in.
WALSH (voice-over): Right now, a Ukrainian drone attack on Russia is underway, so they've been forbidden, even if they could, to fire. Each night, they watch Russian drones weave their complex way out of their tiny range.
When the defenses fail, the icy silence breaks. Moscow, pummeling the border town Sumy, here with a cluster munition missile that killed 12 in an apartment block because Ukraine is still inside Russia, holding positions in Kursk. This thermal drone image shows, just hours earlier, the dawn's fight in Kursk for Oleksandr.
OLEKSANDR, COMPANY COMMANDER, 225TH ASSAULT BATTALION (through translation): The assault teams came in the dawn grey. There was almost no contact. We worked with birds. Then the infantry simply swept them up.
WALSH (voice-over): In the positions they've hit, no sign of the North Korean troops meant to be in Kursk. Instead, Chechens, even African mercenaries, but above all, endless waves of Russians.
(through translation): I have the impression they have unlimited people. It's like the next Russian don't know what happened to the previous Russians. So they go there, into the unknown.
WALSH (voice-over): His Humvee is a mess, he hasn't slept for three days, and shelling has damaged his hearing. But he knows what he'd say to President-elect Donald Trump. When Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in the 90s, we were promised protection.
OLEKSANDR (through translation): You took away our nuclear weapons? You promised us protection? Yes, in simple terms, so keep your word. We're being slaughtered and you'll still trying to play games, to defend your interests.
You have to give everything you could to end this war in two days. Who will believe the words of the U.S. or England, who are pissing themselves in front of Russia? Pardon my English.
[21:00:06]
WALSH (voice-over): Confident they can hold out in Kursk, less confident of how long the West expects them to.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (on-camera): Anderson, you heard about North Korean troops there, well there have been suggestions that have in fact been integrated into Russian units, and indeed Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said at the weekend that some have been killed in the fighting.
Meanwhile today, the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in Kyiv, he's been criticized for a phone call to Vladimir Putin some weeks ago, ending the Kremlin head's isolation. But here in Kyiv, he promised more air defense that Ukraine so urgently needs. Anderson?
COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much. That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
