Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Suspected Gunman Arrived in NYC by Bus 10 Days Before Shooting; Hostel Surveillance Footage Shows "Person of Interest" Unmasked; Source: Suspected Gunman Armed In NYC By Bus, 10 Days Before Shooting; 360 Looks Into The Inner Workings Of Corporate Security And Personal Protection For Top Executives; QAnon Fans Celebrate Kash Patel As Trump's FBI Pick. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 05, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: ... what we're seeing with cryptocurrency, Erin Burnett, they're worth a lot more money.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: They're worth a lot more, and they will continue to be unless it crashes, in which case, they take it out first.
ENTEN: Is it a tulip mania? Who knows?
BURNETT: Tulip mania or NFTs, I'm thinking about --
ENTEN: I remember, I think there was an NFT made of me. No, there wasn't.
BURNETT: And if you don't know what they are, that's the warning sign of what the potential could be here, we don't know. All right, thanks so much, Harry.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you for being with us.
Be sure to join Laura Coates tonight live at eleven. She has the CNN special, "Manhunt: The Search for the CEO Killer." Meantime, Anderson starts now.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the massive manhunt making progress. New photos of what authorities say is a person of interest. It's this, the unmasked face of the New York's CEO assassin.
Also, how the shooter handled his silenced nine millimeters pistol. What that could show and what words scrawled on two shells found at the crime scene could say about his motive.
Plus, up close with the man who makes it his business to get between the CEOs and celebrities who hire him and those who would do them harm.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
We now know where the suspected gunman may have come from, sort of. A source in law enforcement telling CNN he came on a bus which originated in Atlanta, though police aren't sure exactly when he may have gotten on that bus, was it an Atlanta or was it in some stop between Atlanta and New York?
He arrived in the city on the 24th of November, ten days before the shooting. He checked into a hostel on Manhattan's Upper West Side. After that, he appears to have moved around the city, checking out the hostel on the 29th and then checking back in a day later, unclear where he spent that night. Just the latest in a string of leads that police have turned up in the day-and-a-half since healthcare executive, Brian Thompson was assassinated down in Midtown Manhattan including these photos of a man from surveillance footage taken at the hostel.
Authorities are calling him a person of interest. They have yet to either name him or indicate whether they know who he is, and that he certainly seems to resemble the man who lay in wait for and then executed Thompson early yesterday morning outside the Hilton, the New York Police Department is not saying they are one in the same person.
There's new video also emerging today of a man on an e-bike whom police believe was the gunman. That's near Central Park, about 30 blocks north of the crime scene on west 85th Street, 15 minutes after the killing. Now, police say the suspect exited the park at West 77th Street without his gray backpack, which they have yet to find despite conducting a grid search and looking through garbage cans and dumpsters and bushes.
All of these street numbers may not resonate for people unfamiliar with this city, but they do paint a picture of where the suspect appeared to be both before and after the shooting.
Now, they're all within a short bike ride of that hostel where they say he was staying and where authorities told us late today, he checked in using a New Jersey driver's license. So, there's all of that. And then there's the smudged fingerprint on the water bottle at the crime scene that police believe the shooter bought at a nearby Starbucks shortly before the murder. An ammunition with the words "delay" and "depose" on them, and more.
So, there's a lot to get to in the hour ahead. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz starts us off from the hostel on Manhattan's Upper West Side. What's the latest you're hearing from authorities?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Anderson, investigators spent the day here behind me at this hostel focusing on the fourth floor, where some of the folks who are staying here told us the individual was. Investigators spent this day here questioning some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PROKUPECZ (voice over): The suspect entered Central Park here after the brazen early morning killing. We now know that police have reviewed footage of what appears to be the gunman exiting the park nearby on west 77th Street.
And this new video, obtained by CNN shows a person police believed to be the gunman riding westbound on West 85th Street.
PROKUPECZ (on camera): Seven AM, video captures what appears to be him on his bike coming around this corner, heading this way. And as you can see in the video, he's not wearing his backpack.
PROKUPECZ (voice over): Eighteen blocks north, police began to search this hostel Wednesday afternoon. The NYPD released these images of what they're calling a person of interest, checking into the hostel.
PROKUPECZ (on camera): Police released the first clear images of a man they want to question in connection to the murder. They say the man stayed here at this hostel in a room with others on the fourth floor. Police were back here today speaking to people who have been staying here. We are told by the folks who are staying here that they saw the police on the fourth floor.
We're also told by hotel management that when you check in to this hostel, they do ask you for ID.
PROKUPECZ (voice over): Police say employees at the hostel say the man almost never lowered his mask or hood, and a law enforcement official tells CNN the shooter used a fake New Jersey ID to check in a full five days before the murder.
Another new piece of evidence this video, timestamped at 6:15 AM, shows the suspected gunman leaving the 57th Street Subway Station just three blocks from the scene of the crime, 30 minutes later, Thompson would be fatally shot.
[20:05:09]
Then there's the words "delay" and "oppose" found on a live round and a shell casing at the scene. Are they signs of a motive? Police now exploring whether they are a reference to a derogatory phrase leveled at the insurance industry for denying claims. Investigators also have a water bottle that the shooter left behind at the scene. CNN learned earlier today that it yielded a single smudged fingerprint.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Shimon, what do investigators focused on specifically tonight?
PROKUPECZ: So, it's interesting, Anderson, because we actually, our team, we've been going up and down Broadway and some of the surrounding areas trying to find surveillance video. And even late tonight, just about an hour ago, we were a little downtown towards 85th Street. We're at 103rd Street. We saw detectives going into different shops and restaurants still looking for video to try and find out where the suspect is. It seems like they have a pretty good idea of when he got here, how he got here and some of his movements at that time, but at this point it just seems they don't really have any idea or at least they're not telling us of where he went, where he is.
And it's a big mystery, you know, a city of this size with so many cameras everywhere, it's still very interesting that they still have no idea where he is, where he went. And they're still to this hour out here looking for video of where he went --Anderson.
COOPER: Shimon Prokupecz, appreciate it.
With me here tonight, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller. Also joining us former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, and Bryanna Fox, she's a professor of criminology at the University of South Florida and a former FBI special agent.
John, I mean, at this point, at this hour, I know you've got remarkable sources. What are you -- what's the latest you're hearing? What stands out to you at this hour?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: That he was here way longer than we believe. You know, we thought he probably got to that hostel, stayed a couple of days for the specific purpose of just going there that day and doing that shooting. But now we know, he comes in on the 24th.
So he's here about ten days. He's doing reconnaissance at the Hilton. He's moving around the city. He's seen at a McDonald's. He's in taxis. He has to obtain this bike at some point. And we -- you know, the police don't know when or where that happened.
So, he's been busy preparing, but we have to consider why is he at that hostel? He's staying in a room for four people with two roommates. So, he's the third person. Here's a guy who never lets down his mask or takes down his hood or both at the same time, which is why we only have that limited moment of that photograph. So, he's committed. He's professional acting in terms of discipline, but he's obviously operating on a shoestring in terms of finances.
COOPER: Well, also, why spend ten days in New York City knowing there's cameras everywhere, knowing, you know, if he's going to commit this assassination that this is all going to be looked at?
MILLER: Well, because he is clearly aware of that. When you look at what the work the NYPD is doing and these video canvass teams are among the best in the world because they do this not just on the big cases, they do this on all the cases because the video is what the district attorney expects, what juries want to see is, can you show me a movie of his whole day? And in a case like this, it's essential.
As Shimon told us, you know, they have him here, they have him there. They're back out there tonight trying to plug the gaps of where can we get him in the space between these two captures? They never found, not yet, that money shot where he takes down the hood and takes off, figuring, like this has nothing to do what my crime is going to be. His discipline of staying that way was incredible.
COOPER: Except for this flirtatious moment, which is why he took down the mask.
MILLER: And that's because, you know, he's there and you know, the woman at the counter is laughing with him and she says, you know, let me see your face. Now, is that because she's looking at the driver's license he's handed her and she wants to see is this guy the guy in the picture? But it wasn't described that way.
They were having a flirtatious moment and he pulls it down and he gives the big smile and that one informal moment between two human beings remains at this moment, the most significant clue to date in this whole case.
COOPER: Andrew, the cell phone left behind, why would it be so hard for law enforcement agencies to get into a phone?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, so this is something that law enforcement at every level has been struggling with for the last ten years, Anderson. And that's because of the ubiquity of end-to-end encryption and these incredibly secure kind of locking programs that we have on most phones.
Even when, you know, thinking back to my own time in the FBI, even just dealing with let's say, iPhones when we would take in an iPhone on a significant case, whether or not we could get into it had to do not only with the model of phone that it was, but also the specific iOS version that it was running.
[20:10:18]
So, you might be able to get into an iPhone 7 running iOS whatever but you couldn't get in to one if it was running a different iOS. So, it's a very complex matrix of hardware and software and that's kind of what determines whether or not law enforcement has the capability to get past that locking mechanism and essentially open up the phone. And once you get into the phone, then you're dealing with the problem of encrypted content.
So, some users are not as disciplined and they keep things like text messages and those sort of records on their phones. So, you can read it off the device. But others are better at having messages expire and automatically deleted and things like that. So, it's far more complicated than it seems from the outside.
COOPER: Professor Fox what does it tell you that the shooter apparently was in New York ten days before the killing? And, you know, to John's point, staying in a room with other people, obviously, on a budget, but not hiding, even in some cheap hotel and, you know, sharing a room with other people, exposing himself.
BRYANNA FOX, PROFESSOR OF CRIMINOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA: Yes, it's really interesting behavior because he's obviously concerned about apprehension. But my take would be it's not necessarily because he's, you know, thinking he's going to avoid apprehension forever. I think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't trust law enforcement, doesn't trust the system. I think that was part of his motive to begin with.
I think he actually is banking on the fact that he probably is going to get caught. That's why he left some of the messages that he did. But I think he thinks that the average citizen is going to take his side in this. I think he really views this as like a vigilante-type of an act and he's hoping that when and if the cards come down for him, that he is going to have sympathetic jurors on his side.
COOPER: John, there's a couple of things that I don't understand. First of all, what happened to the backpack if he enters the park, if he's on this bike, he's got the backpack it's not -- it is 20 blocks, which is, you know, a mile or a little bit more a mile, a mile-and-a- half, maybe that he was in the park. There's not that many places.
If it's 15 minutes from the time of the shooting he exits on 77th Street. There's not a lot of time to hide something somewhere in the park. And also, where was he -- where was the bike? Where did he buy the bike? And also, where was the bike pre-positioned because he's, you reported last night he was seen on the upper West Side carrying a charger -- a battery in the morning. He gets on the subway. We see that video of him exiting the subway downtown but there's no bike with him on the subway.
MILLER: Right, so, the bike is pre-positioned on 55th Street. And because he's been to the Hilton and he's surveyed that area and he may or may not have known that his target was staying in the hotel across the street. It's certainly suggestive that he knew that because he is right in between that hotel and where his subject would enter, his target would enter. But he also knows there's that cutout in the middle of the block, which gives him a clean escape route onto the next block, where that bike was waiting.
They pick him up, you know, coming eastbound on that bicycle towards Sixth Avenue, and then on video into the park with that backpack, it appears because he comes into the park wearing it and he leaves the park on that bike, not wearing it that he just discarded the backpack. Now, they've got a mobile field force. They did a grid search through the park. They haven't found it, but remember, this is your New York, right?
You throw a brand new backpack out in Central Park, somebody's going to pick it up and they're going to take it. Don't forget the Chelsea Bombing, those two guys walked by the bomb on the street. It was in a fake Louis Vuitton bag, they looked at the bag. They took the bomb out, they put it down and they walked away with the bag.
COOPER: I had forgotten that detail. That is New York.
MILLER: You know, if they if they picked up this backpack in Central Park. My big question is was that weapon inside it or had he transferred it to somewhere else? And where is it now?
COOPER: Right, or was somebody else there to take it in some way? Andrew, what do you make of the level of apparent planning? MCCABE: It's remarkable. It's remarkable, I think, I'm convinced that this guy is a civilian. He's not a professional. He wasn't hired to do this. I think there's a lot of signs of that. The message essentially written on the bullets. It's not something a professional would do. In fact, leaving casings and live rounds at the scene also not something a professional would do. Going to Starbucks on the way to the killing, also not something.
But nevertheless, despite the fact that he is a civilian, he has put an enormous amount of time and effort into this. Even, just look at what we've been talking about earlier, the amount of time that he spent in the city before the target, even arrives. Now, it's likely he knew, he went to New York because he knew the investor conference was going to take place there, and he knew when that was going to happen and where it would happen.
[20:15:13]
So, he gets there 10 days in advance. He spends 10 days figuring out the city, getting back and forth, figuring out the best modes of transportation. Maybe that an e-bike is better than a car at that time of day. Using the subway, getting back, surveying maybe both hotels, certainly the one where the killing takes place.
And then, you layer on top of that, his use of the weapon, his clear significant amount of training with the weapon, the pre-positioning of the escape bicycle. This guy really thought through this thing very carefully. He's clearly a highly organized person probably pretty smart, likely highly educated, really very determined to reach this goal, this deadly goal.
COOPER: Professor Fox, why do you say the gunman you think is likely proud of the crime?
FOX: Well, I think that everything that was said was absolutely correct, but I think he's almost wanting to get caught so he can show off that it was him that did this, that he was the, you know, Batman type figure that was seeking justice on behalf of people that he thinks he's representing. I think that, you know, if he didn't have a message and he wasn't feeling proud of it, he wouldn't have left those shell casings as Andrew said.
I think that he could have had a better chance of getting away with this if let's say he did it at the victim's home, which was, well known to be in the suburbs of Minneapolis. Instead, he chose to do it in New York City, where there was a much higher chance of being on surveillance footage, of having a humongous police force after him.
There are so many reasons why I think that there were better places that he would have been able to more successfully get away with this, but I think the place that he chose to do it, the venue, the media coverage, all of that suggests that he's actually proud of this act.
COOPER: Bryanna Fox, thank you; Andrew McCabe, John Miller is back shortly, along with Geraldo Rivera, along with continuing coverage throughout the evening, be sure to tune in at 11:00 for a Special Edition of Laura Coates' live "Manhunt: The Search for the CEO Killer." That's 11:00 Eastern right here.
Next for us, new video just obtained by CNN of what appears to be the suspect before the murder. Plus, the NYPD's former chief of department will be here to share his thoughts on the manhunt and on what can be gleaned from the way the killer handled his nine millimeter pistol with a silencer, a suppressor, even when it jammed several times.
And later, as we mentioned, John Miller, Geraldo Rivera both have a long history covering headline grabbing crimes here in New York, that's all ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:49]
COOPER: Welcome back.
We have new video just in showing what appears to be the suspected killer on west 55th street before the murder. The man in it is stopping by a pile of trash. With me now is Kenneth Corey, former chief of department and chief of training for the New York Police Department
I want to play a portion of the surveillance video where the shooter steps out behind Brian Thompson and obviously, this video is disturbing. We're not playing the entire thing.
Let's -- as we watch this and what stands out to you in the shooter's stance, his demeanor, and the way he is handling the weapon.
KENNETH COREY, FORMER CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT AND CHIEF OF TRAINING FOR THE NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: So he's clearly had some training in firearms, right, I mean, this isn't the first time that he's picked up a gun. It's not the first time that he's fired a gun. It's probably not the first time he's fired that particular gun.
His stance is really unimpressive. It's really sort of awkward, but I think what strikes me most from the video is the fact that while he's had some training in firearms, he's undisciplined in his approach.
And, you know, he takes that first shot probably at a distance of less than five yards, right, they're pretty close together. And again hard to tell from the video, right --
COOPER: The reporting yesterday was like 20 feet or so.
COREY: Yes, okay, you know, it looks a little closer to me on the sidewalk flags there. But it could be, you know, and hard to tell from the video but it looks like his first round strikes Mr. Thompson in the left leg.
COOPER: Right.
COREY: Right, so, low left is what you get from an undisciplined shooter.
COOPER: Why? I mean, at that close range, he seems to have time and a steady hand. Why would he be --
COREY: He just -- his grip is a little off and he jerks the trigger a little too much. And when he does that as a right-handed shooter, it's going to, the round is going to go low left.
COOPER: The fact that there was jamming is that, I read some that the silencer or the suppressor, I'm not sure if there's a difference, but I've heard it's called both ways that that might have affected the jamming.
COREY: Yes, so, that's what it appears to me, right. That the addition of the suppressor to the pistol, the way that that type of pistol works, is the recoil blows the slide back --
COOPER: So there it is, that's the part of the video where you see him --
COREY: Right, so, the suppressor reduces the velocity so much that the slide can't fully cycle back and forth. It's not a jam, it doesn't look like in a conventional sense. And it also looks like he's anticipating it. So he knows this is going to happen. I fired tens of thousands of rounds through pistols. And when you experience a malfunction, there is still that momentary like hey, why didn't this work the way I thought it would?
COOPER: Is that because of the suppressor itself?
COREY: I believe it's the addition of the suppressor that causes that.
COOPER: And could that have impacted, I mean, if he was unfamiliar with the suppressor, could that have impacted why the shot is -- was hitting the --
COREY: No, I think he's -- it's clear to me he's fired that pistol with the suppressor attached before. It looks like he's anticipating that malfunction and is able to very quickly remedy it. It's not a jam in a conventional sense, where the spent shell isn't ejecting properly and is lodging in there. It's that the next round, the next live round isn't fully seating in the chamber.
COOPER: It's interesting because, you know, yesterday a lot of people were saying, well, look, he looks calm, cool and collected and you know, with the jamming he didn't freak. He didn't run. He was still -- he walked toward the victim to kill him.
But he also dropped the bottle. He also dropped a phone, he also left behind these shell casings. So, does that -- I mean, you don't know what's going on inside somebody's head or the adrenaline that's pumping through them?
COREY: No, I mean, listen, he seems to be very calm, very composed. You know, I think, as others have said, he's not a professional. He's focused on what he's doing. He's done a lot of pre-planning. And yet still that inexperience, you know, I think leaves him to drop that first round.
[20:25:21]
COOPER: Why do you think he was spending 10 days in New York City? I mean, if you don't want to be seen, it seems like he was going out a lot.
COREY: You know I don't think that he fully puts the picture together and just how far the NYPD is going to go in collecting video and they're not just going to take it from the crime scene to his escape route. They're actually going to rewind now, and they're going to try to account for all ten days that he spent in New York City and whether it was, you know, one day, five days, ten days, they're going to pick up every piece of video that they can and stitch together a total timeline of his time in New York City.
And I don't think that he anticipates that. I don't think that the average New Yorker would anticipate that. You know, I think he knows in that area, with the dense camera coverage that the crime itself is going to be captured on video, and he wants to take precautions to mask himself. He doesn't realize that he's also going to be looked at in the time period leading up to that.
COOPER: It also interests me that, like the backpack hasn't been found. I mean, if he's in the park for 15 minutes or so, riding from the crime scene to, you know, maybe 10 minutes actually in the park itself, there's not a lot of places for the backpack to go.
COREY: No, there's not but I mean, Central Park is pretty large. I mean, an e-bike will travel pretty quickly. I mean, it could be tossed into some underbrush, you know, he could have stuffed it in a pile of a rock formation or as John mentioned before, somebody else just picks it up and walks off with it.
COOPER: Right. A manhunt like this, within the police force, how many personnel would be working on something like this?
COREY: So listen, I mean you've got, you know, on something like this right now, you've probably got a thousand plus.
COOPER: Wow.
COREY: You know, between video collection, between canvases between running down different leads. Undoubtedly, when that photo of him, you know, somewhat unmasked, is released, there are tips pouring in. You know, probably tips pouring in from across the country. And they're going to run down every one of those tips. Most of them are going to turn out to be dead ends, but one or two of them are going to be something that takes them off in the right direction.
COOPER: Chief Kenneth Corey, thank you so much for your expertise.
COREY: My pleasure, thank you.
COOPER: Up next, the latest evidence seen through the eyes of two veteran journalists who covered stories similar to the assassination. John Miller returns, also, Geraldo Rivera joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:26]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It has been a second night of new developments since the Brian Thompson's execution-style killing here in New York, including late where the suspected gunman arrived 10 days before the killing on a Greyhound bus, which originated in Atlanta.
Now authorities don't know if he boarded there in Atlanta or somewhere else along the route. We want to talk about all of it with Peabody and Emmy Award winner Geraldo Rivera. Also back with us is John Miller. Geraldo, we talked last night. What stands out to you about the manhunt 24 hours since then?
GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY & EMMY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST: The staggering thing to me, Anderson -- hi to you and to John -- is that with that photograph, that grinny flirtatious photograph, no one has come forward to suggest that they know this guy.
Not just the people who ran into him over the course of the 10 days in New York, let's say that 99 percent of the time he was masked. Still, there's enough with this photograph, the two of them taken together, him serious and him smiling, where if you knew this guy, you would have to know who this was.
And I am shocked that we have not heard, or at least have not yet been told, that he has been spotted. And his name is Joe Doe (ph). And, you know, from Minneapolis or whatever it is. It is to me that -- because I believe that the photograph is clearly the most important evidence, more than the videos and all the rest of it.
But, you know, how could he be such a mystery man? I think that it's pretty clear that he's trying to convey the message of insurance revenge. He's kind of like a cross between the Unabomber and Robin Hood. He, you know, he got screwed somehow or someone he loved was shafted by the insurance industry.
I had no idea how vitriolic the feelings about the industry were until, you know, Twitter in the last 24 hours, Anderson. You know, he had it come in or they bleed you dry or they denied me coverage for this. They dropped me for the pre-existing this or that. You know, it's -- he wanted at least to convey the message, true or false, that he's doing this to get back at the bad people in the insurance business.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, you don't have -- I don't know exactly how, John, the words delay and depose were scrawled onto. I mean, it's a small casing of a bullet like this left behind. Clearly, it's, you know, for whatever the message is supposed to be, it's to send a message.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Yes. Well, it's a small canvas when you look at a 9 millimeter --
COOPER: That's the 9 millimeter bullet.
MILLER: That's the same bullet we're talking about. And to write in this silver space requires some adeptness. But it's certainly nothing that, you know, it's not where you would have left a note if you didn't mean for someone to find it, to Geraldo's points.
So, you know, there is the three Ds of insurance, according to critics, are deny, delay, defend. You know, what he has is two Ds, which is delay and depose. And when you get into different Internet chat rooms, they say it different ways. But he does seem to be sending a message that way.
COOPER: Geraldo, the police are clearly putting this information out there in the hope that someone will locate him. The -- do you think in the end it's going to be tips from the public?
RIVERA: I don't know. I guess, you know, it could be that they finally identify him and stake him out.
[20:35:04]
But the question is, is he a pro or is he a bereaved or aggrieved amateur? Yes, it doesn't take a lot to be, you know, you read a couple of Agatha Christie, Arthur Conan Doyle, John Grisham. You get the idea of how to mask your movements and cover up this and that.
But you -- how do you account for being out of your world? Not only is your picture everywhere, but you're out of the world that you live in for the 10 days that the authorities are now saying he was in New York.
So how does he -- how do you -- unless you're a professional killer. But if you're a professional killer, remember the financial irregularities, remember the millions of dollars missing. Remember the insider trading and the fraud. Is that where this comes from?
You know, I don't know. I just think that someone should, you know, recognize the movie star smile and put a -- put the dime on him to call 911 someplace.
COOPER: I saw, John, don't understand, if you don't want to be caught, why spend 10 days in New York City? I mean, it is the -- there's cameras everywhere. He -- if, I mean, if he knew this guy, you know, was going to be at the Hilton, you don't need to be casing for 10 days.
MILLER: Well, he had things to do and we don't know what he arrived with. And remember, I mean, we talk about is he a pro? Is he not a pro? He's not a pro. He has to stay in a youth hostel because he's operating on a shoestring budget.
You could argue that he has to take the bus because he's transporting firearms and that's more complicated on an airplane. But, you know, a pro is going to be operating on, you know, a budget somewhere between $20,000 and $100,000 and not being exposing himself to this kind of thing.
So, he has to -- he got that bike from somewhere. So, you know, where did he get that idea? Along the way? Or did he come with that plan? Did he buy that bike or rent that bike? If he used a credit card, that creates a record. So he's probably operating on a small amount of cash.
He had to do that surveillance in the Hilton. But the Hilton is a huge place. What ballroom was the conference in? Do I do this in the lobby or can I catch him in the street? If I catch him on the street, there's entrances on 53rd Street, 54th Street, the front door and a garage pass through.
How do I know which way he's coming in? So his reconnaissance yield putting him in the right place --
COOPER: I also don't know -- I mean, how did he know the guy was staying -- or did he know the guy was staying in the other hotel? And again, we don't know.
MILLER: So we don't know that.
COOPER: Yes.
MILLER: But the odds of him putting himself in the only spot between that hotel and the entrance, this individual was likely to use really begs the question. If he didn't know, he's got to be the luckiest hit man in the world.
COOPER: John Miller, Geraldo Rivera, thank you so much.
Still ahead, a look into the inner workings of executive security. What measures apparently were not in place outside the Midtown Hilton yesterday? Randi Kaye spent the day with a personal protection specialist for celebrities and CEOs around the world. Her report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:42:16]
COOPER: Brian Thompson's death has set off a scramble across Corporate America, particularly in the health insurance industry, to reassess security for top executives. Mr. Thompson, as we reported, was walking without a security detail at the time of his killing.
Now, sources tell CNN several major health care providers have begun increasing personal protection for their key officials.
Our Randi Kaye spent the day with a specialist who's protected CEOs and public figures around the world. Here's her report.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ANTON KALAYDJIAN, FOUNDER & CEO, GUARDIAN PROFESSIONAL SECURITY: You're looking for anything that's kind of off, something that doesn't make sense, something that doesn't fit in.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anton Kalaydjian is always on the lookout for trouble. For more than two decades, he's been working as a personal protection specialist for celebrities and CEOs around the world.
KALAYDJIAN: So I would prefer if we hug the wall a little bit more.
KAYE (voice-over): Here in downtown West Palm Beach, Florida, he showed us some of the tactics he and his team at Guardian Professional Security use. Protection starts before his client even gets out of the car.
KALAYDJIAN: You put your hand on the door. This is called plating. And the reason why is because your body is here to make sure that nothing gets closer to your client than you.
KAYE (voice-over): This time, with me in the backseat, we got to see firsthand how this sort of protection works.
KAYE: Stay with me on the street side.
KALAYDJIAN: Yes. You're by the wall. You're not by the street. I have full access to anything with my eye. I can see everything around me. And -- but we're walking very normal. I'm not walking too paranoid.
KAYE: And as we've walked in --
KALAYDJIAN: I cover you over here and walk you in. I'm still looking behind me. And then we open the door.
KAYE (voice-over): Kalaydjian says he prefers taking clients in through side entrances or back doors, but some insist on using the front door.
KALAYDJIAN: I would walk from behind you in the beginning. And then as you got closer to the door, I'm looking around. These are glass doors, which are great for us because that allows me to see everything on a 360 view before I get you in there.
And then once we get you in, I make sure nobody comes behind you. I'm still right behind you here. And anything that comes around you, no one's going to get closer to you than me.
KAYE (voice-over): And what if a bad guy were to show up suddenly behind me or one of his clients, like the shooter did when he shot the UnitedHealthcare CEO in New York City?
KALAYDJIAN: I immediately put my body in between you and the threat. And then if I see them approaching closer and closer, now I have to engage with them and I have to turn around. And you can see I totally eclipsed your body.
So if anything happens, it's going to happen to me and not to you. That's the job of bodyguards. That's what we do as close protection agents. We have to make sure that a principal doesn't get hurt. So then at that time, I would draw my weapon.
KAYE (voice-over): Caleb Gilbert, another expert in executive protection and president of White Glove Protection Group, says his security teams have a variety of training. CALEB GILBERT, PRESIDENT, WHITE GLOVE PROTECTION GROUP INC.: Each agent has their EMT or medical certification so that they're able to respond in a medical emergency. They have driver's training. They have hand-to-hand combat. They have verbal de-escalation training. When appropriate, the weapons training.
KAYE (voice-over): His goal? Stop the threat before they have a chance to act.
GILBERT: Our protective posture is set up so that we respond pre- incident.
[20:45:04]
The assets that we have in place to be able to identify, is this person who's waiting outside this event supposed to be there? Do they have pre-attack indicators? Are they using micro-expressions that would indicate aggression or nefarious intent?
KAYE (voice-over): As he and Kalaydjian have learned --
KALAYDJIAN: Everybody to you has to be a suspect until they're not, you know. And it's unfortunate we have to think that way, but it keeps our clients safe.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
KAYE (on-camera): And, Anderson, our experts told me that in many of these cases, these CEOs just don't want this protection. They don't want to be seen as someone who needs protection. So now they are offering something that they called covert protection.
This is really a protective bubble, as it was described to me, that can expand or contract depending on the threat. The agents are there. The team is in place. But they can move in closer if they do deem that there is a threat.
Anyone who enters that bubble has to be identified. But then they can back off if they seem -- if it does seem that their client or their protectee is not in danger. And this is really now being put in place in some of these cases, I'm told, Anderson, because these CEOs don't like the idea of this close protection right there on top of them.
COOPER: Yes.
Randi Kaye, thanks so much.
I'm joined now by former Secret Service Agent Jonathan Wackrow, who has years of experience in private corporate security. You know, you see the video of the assassin, you know, shooting or preparing to shoot. If he had had one security person, would that have really made a difference?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It could have been enough to be the deterrent to stop that attack at that moment, right? It's difficult to say, you know, how effective it would have been, but it was more effective than nothing.
And having that agent, you know, deploying different tactics, you know, site agents would have walked that route beforehand to make sure they don't see the same person. So multiple sightings over time and distance is a factor when you're dealing with executive protection.
And, you know, if I just saw that person loitering by that door 10 minutes ago, now I'm walking down the sidewalk with a protectee and that person's still there, I may change the route. Sir, let's go across the street. Let's get away from what could be deemed a potential threat.
It's not going to impact our route that much. It's not going to impact the time of arrival. So those little micro movements in executive protection are the deterrent factor from, you know, potentially launching this type of horrific attack.
COOPER: How -- I mean, obviously, any -- as Randi was talking about close protection, that is quite onerous for an individual with their family, however it may be. It also attracts attention in some cases. Do you find that a lot with clients that they don't want, you know, the close protection?
WACKROW: There's always an allergic reaction to executive protection. Why? Because it's intrusive into your life. It's -- in every aspect from scheduling to, you know, losing a lot of privacy. And the more executive protection you put on, the more of that, you know, privacy is taken away.
So naturally, you know, corporate leaders who may never have had that before, they ascend into the position of CEO. Let's use that as an example. And all of a sudden it's a board mandated, you know, structure that's put around them.
Yes, they have that that pushback. They don't want it. But what they have to think about, it's beyond them. This is about the continuity of the organization as a whole. You know, it's a structure that's set up. That's part of being in that role.
You need to be protected because the company depends on you. Shareholder value depends on you. So it is an essential part in the event the other day. This tragic attack actually just said, you know, highlights that this is no longer a luxury, should never be seen as a luxury or a benefit. It's an absolute necessity for some of these individuals.
COOPER: How much of the job that you do is about the actual protection around an individual at any one time? And how much is analyzing, you know, mail threats that come in, phone threats that come in? You know, is this a real threat, the likelihood, things like that?
WACKROW: Well, you can't have the executive protection function without protective intelligence, right? You have to understand what are the threats that you're facing. And the reason being is through protective intelligence, you're going to be able to do the right threat assessments. You're going to be able to look at that threat landscape and say, well, do I need one person or do I need five people? Do I need people armed? Do I need unarmed? Do I need them overt or do I need them covert? All of these factors are intelligence driven and it's a threat based methodology, something that the Secret Service had started. But now is, you know, paramount in the private sector.
COOPER: All right. Jonathan Wackrow, thanks so much.
CNN will continue to follow this story and report new developments as they occur, of course. Next, we're going to switch topics. The president-elect's picked to lead the FBI. Coming up, why some of those who believe in QAnon conspiracies are excited about Kash Patel and what Patel has had to say about QAnon in the past.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:54:27]
COOPER: New reporting tonight in the president-elect's pick to lead the FBI. CNN has learned that Kash Patel is expected to meet with senators on Capitol Hill next week. Patel is seen as a controversial choice for the position. He lacks managerial experience in law enforcement, has spoken of retaliation against anyone, really seen as opposed to Trump and has called the very organization he hopes to lead a, quote, "threat to the people".
But a source tells CNN that the president-elect's team is eager to get Patel in front of key senators. Despite the challenging road he may face to get confirmed, one movement in particular has been celebrating his nomination, QAnon.
CNN's Donie O'Sullivan has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
[20:55:03]
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are here in beautiful, sunny Florida, right by Mar-a-Lago. We're on our way to meet a QAnon influencer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you know, you can't explain.
O'SULLIVAN: For years, Jeffrey Pedersen, a former I.T. guy, has been running the Matrix Groove Show.
JEFFREY PEDERSEN, HOST, THE MG SHOW: Welcome back to the MG Show, where the truth is learned, it's never told.
O'SULLIVAN: It's a show devoted to all things QAnon.
PEDERSEN: If you think QAnon is bad, you're believing the mainstream news.
O'SULLIVAN: Deciphering the cryptic codes from Q and trying to figure out the deep state and the Kabbalah (ph) and everything else.
PEDERSEN: This is Q post 1828. This is the Spy Op.
O'SULLIVAN: And the reason we're here is because he has had as a guest on his show, Kash Patel, who might become the next FBI director.
PEDERSEN: Kash is on the show today. Let's bring him in right now.
KASH PATEL, DONALD TRUMP'S PICK TO LEAD FBI: You guys are the best. I love being on your program.
O'SULLIVAN: Patel has dipped his toe into this QAnon world a bit over the years, has flirted with us.
PATEL: On Truth Social, there's a Q account. Whether or not it's the real Q, I'm not going to get into.
MARY GRACE: Are you a QAnon (ph)?
PATEL: So, like -- so, like everything else, you have to have fun with it. The Q thing is a movement. A lot of people attach themselves to it. I disagree with a lot of what that movement says, but I agree with what a lot of that movement says.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The QAnon movement has long been associated with radicalization and hate. And QAnon iconography was seen throughout the January 6th mob.
PEDERSEN: Is that Donie O'Sullivan?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. Glad you're here.
Q has posted how many times?
PEDERSEN: 4,967 times.
O'SULLIVAN: Q posted about Kash Patel?
PEDERSEN: Yes, twice.
O'SULLIVAN: And said, Kashyap Patel, a name to remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Q has been so right on so many things. I'll get off that subject.
PATEL: No, he has. And I agree with you. He has. He has. And you've got to take of -- you get to harness that following that Q has garnered and just sort of tweak it a little bit. That's all I'm saying. He should get credit for all the things he has accomplished because it's hard to establish a movement.
O'SULLIVAN: Who is Q?
PEDERSEN: I don't know. Q says it's 10 people, three non-military, less than 10. We don't know. I see people trying to say that Kash is Q. You can't prove that. I can't prove that. O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): For a lot of people, Kash Patel engaging in the world of Q and QAnon at all, they'll say, well, that's disqualifying.
PEDERSEN: But what you're going to find out is that we have a mandate in America and we want the FBI cleaned. You know, 99 percent of the FBI is good. You know, but there's a 1 percent that is not good.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The anonymous Q persona hasn't posted in a few years. But the world of QAnon is still very real for people like Jeffrey.
PEDERSEN: News unlocks what the Q posts are. Like, you know, like, for example, Kashyap Patel, a name to remember. Kashyap Patel has just been nominated as the FBI director. Right? That's a Q proof, what we call it.
O'SULLIVAN: Couldn't I just say, well, Q has posted 5,000 times. He just posted a name. Like --
PEDERSEN: Yes, you can absolutely say that. And -- but what about all the other names?
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): In our interview, Jeffrey made it very clear that he condemns violence. He's not a fan of the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers or other groups that conspired to cause violence on January 6th.
PEDERSEN: I always say, you know, we're not going to make fun of liberals because we're going to be here for them when they wake up.
O'SULLIVAN: But there is a lot of portrayal of Democrats, of people on the left, of being evil.
PEDERSEN: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Do you think they're evil?
PEDERSEN: Not all of them, no. Do you -- I think there are some? Yes. Like Hillary Clinton, maybe? I don't know.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): As for Kash Patel, Jeffrey and other QAnon influencers welcome him as the country's top law enforcement officer.
PEDERSEN: I think the American people will be happy that Kash Patel is going to straighten out what they've done to President Donald J. Trump and the FBI. And I think America should be happy as well.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Donie O'Sullivan joins us now. Donie, has Patel addressed anything about Q?
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Well, what you heard there is --
COOPER: Why is he there? O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): -- why people in the QAnon movement love him because, you know, he's kind of winked at it. He hasn't said he's a QAnon follower, but speaks of his respect for it.
COOPER: He said there's some things he doesn't like, some things --
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Exactly, yes. Look, a spokesperson for the Trump transition team today dismissed any links between Patel and QAnon and actually said that the story was a pathetic attempt at guilt by association here.
But, you know, I guess --
COOPER: Did they say pathetic with an Irish accent?
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): It's a tough one. Those th's kill me. What we are seeing -- you've thrown me now, Anderson.
COOPER: I'm sorry.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): This is -- what we -- what is kind of taking a step back from this, I guess, is shocking, is that, you know, somebody who is potentially going to run the FBI --
COOPER: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): -- is engaging with this world of people who really believe that there is this kind of satanic, pedophile, Kabbalah at the heart --
COOPER: Right.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): -- of the so-called deep state. So that's really the kind of world we're living in right now. I should say that a lot of the time that Patel went on these shows, it was to promote something. It was to sell something.
COOPER: Donie O'Sullivan, as always --
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Thank you.
COOPER: -- thank you. Appreciate it.
Just a reminder, be sure to tune in at 11:00 for a special edition of Laura Coates Live, "Manhunt: The Search for the CEO Killer". Again, that's 11:00 Eastern right here.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
