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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
CEO Killing Suspect Held Without Bail, Makes No Plea in First Court Appearance. PA Police: Backpack Search Found "Black 3D-Printed Pistol And A Black Silencer"; CNN Goes Inside Syria's Notorious "Human Slaughterhouse" Prison; Collapse Of Assad Regime Could Create Power Vacuum In Syria; Biden: "We're Committed To Returning" Austin Tice To His Family. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 09, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(SERGEY NARYSHKIN speaking in foreign language)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): "The situation is obviously complicated," he says. "The thing is Syria is a country composed of many diverse parts, and whether various factions represented in the opposition are able to reach an accord, will in many ways define the fate of the Syrian people and Syria as a state."
The Russians say they are in touch with the armed groups now controlling Syria, and while Moscow says it currently does not see the security of its bases threatened its forces have been placed on alert.
Fred Pleitgen CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to Fred and thanks to all of you. AC360 begins now.
[20:00:42]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360. How the suspected New York CEO killer was caught and what police found tying him to the crime.
Also, all we're learning about his seemingly straight arrow background and why he was, for all intents and purposes invisible to authorities until his capture.
Plus, a report from inside Syria and what's being found after the fall of its brutal dictator and the hideous chambers of his most notorious prison.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We left you Friday with the suspect in the New York sidewalk assassination of UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, still at large. We begin tonight with him in custody and just a short time ago, entering a courthouse in rural Pennsylvania for a preliminary arraignment.
His name is Luigi Mangione. He's been charged with five criminal counts, but not yet with murder. He was arrested in McDonald's in Altoona, about a two-hour drive from Pittsburgh and five hours or so by car from Midtown Manhattan, where the killing took place. According to the criminal complaint, Altoona Police responded to a worker's tip found him sitting with a laptop and wearing a blue medical mask. An officer asked him to pull that mask down and recognized him as the suspect.
When asked if he'd been to New York recently, police say that the man said, "Well, the man became quiet and started to shake." In the words of the police. Announcing the arrest earlier today, New York Police officials laid out some of the evidence they have, speaking both to the means and motivation to kill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA TISCH, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT COMMISSIONER: Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on his person, as well as a suppressor both consistent with the weapon used in the murder. They also recovered clothing, including a mask consistent with those worn by our wanted individual.
Additionally, officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both his motivation and mindset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well separately, but also to the question of a possible grudge against the health insurance industry, a social media profile which appears to be his, shows a profile photo of what looks like an x-ray image of a spine with hardware from an operation. Now, you'll remember police recovered three pieces of ammunition from the crime scene with the word "deny," "defend," and "depose" written on them, words often used to criticize health insurance practices.
Police also say they recovered this phony New Jersey ID matching the one the suspect used to check in to New York hostel before the killing.
As for the real person, Luigi Mangione, New York City chief of detectives says he simply did not exist as a possible suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Was his name on your radar? Was he someone who you had been looking into before his arrest?
JOSEPH KENNY, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES, NYPD: No. We did not have his name prior to today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: In fact, prior to today, he was someone without a criminal record except for a trespassing citation in Hawaii. He attended a prestigious private school in Baltimore, where he was the valedictorian.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUIGI MANGIONE, CEO SUSPECTED KILLER: So to the class of 2016, a kind of class that only comes around once every 50 years, it's been an incredible journey, and I simply can't imagine the last few years with any other group of guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: After that he got his undergraduate and graduate degrees at the University of Pennsylvania. According to "The Daily Pennsylvanian," he was a member of the Engineering Computer Science Honor Society, Eta Kappa Nu.
So, there's a lot we know, a lot yet to learn. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is in New York where the suspect will be brought. CNN's Brian Todd is in Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania.
Brian let's start off with you. You're outside the courthouse where the suspect was taken earlier.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson.
This is where Luigi Mangione was brought after he was processed and questioned at the Altoona Police headquarters not far from here. This location is only about eight miles up the road from the McDonald's where he was taken into custody this morning.
Tonight, we are getting new information about his arrest and new details about the suspect's background.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANGIONE: All of these endeavors took a huge amount of courage.
TODD (voice over): Graduation video suggests Luigi Mangione was valedictorian at this prestigious all boys private school in 2016. His family owns a nursing home chain in Maryland, and his cousin is a state legislator.
Authorities say the note found in his possession railed against the healthcare industry.
KENNY: We don't think that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document, but it does seem that he has some ill will toward corporate America.
TODD (voice over): The note said, "These parasites had it coming and I do apologize for any strife and trauma but it had to be done," according to a police official who has seen the document.
The note says he acted alone and that he was self-funded, and it asked why we have the most expensive healthcare in the world and yet are ranked 42nd in life expectancy JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Oftentimes, when suspects leave these types of documents, it's really to try to control the public perception of what their act was.
TODD (voice over): Authorities are also investigating other writings of his online. The profile photo on an account that appears to belong to Mangione, features what looks like an x-ray image of a spine with hardware from a surgery and a profile on Good Reads also appearing to belong to Mangione lists a number of books about coping with chronic back pain. That profile also reviews the anti-technology manifesto of the Unabomber.
"He was a violent individual, rightfully imprisoned, who maimed innocent people," the post says, but it also calls him an extreme political revolutionary and notes how prescient many of his predictions about modern society turned out.
ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Is it someone that was individually aggrieved? Someone whose family members suffered as a result of a decision that this company made? Or is it a broader sort of activist person that is rebelling against capitalism.
TODD (voice over): On the one hand, analysts say the crime was carefully planned.
JOHN MUFFLER FORMER US MARSHAL: He definitely did his operational planning, pre-attack surveillance, knew the location of this meeting and knew where he was going to be.
TODD (voice over): But on the other hand --
MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR FBI PROFILER: There are a number of mistakes that the shooter made to include leaving forensic evidence behind -- the DNA, all the videos, taking off his mask.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Brian, what exactly has the suspect been charged with?
TODD: Right, Anderson. According to the criminal complaint that was just filed at this courthouse, he's got five counts against him. Two felonies and three misdemeanors. One felony count of forgery, one felony count of carrying a firearm without a license, one misdemeanor count of tampering with records or identification, and one misdemeanor count of possessing instruments of a crime and one misdemeanor count of false identification to law enforcement authorities.
You'll notice, of course, that a murder charge regarding the death of Brian Thompson not leveled against him at this court that could, of course, come well -- come later in New York city.
COOPER: Yes. Brian Todd, thanks very much, we're going with our CNN's Shimon Prokupecz in New York.
So, what's the process now Shimon, for getting this guy from Pennsylvania to New York, for him to face charges here? SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the first things that the NYPD needs to do is actually charge him with the murder. And to do that they need some more direct evidence perhaps Anderson, like the gun. Once they get the gun back to New York, they can send it up to their lab in Queens. And there, their ballistics unit, they can test fire the weapon, compare it to the shell casings that they get from that test fire to what they found at the scene, and that will give them direct evidence of his alleged involvement in the murder.
So it's more evidence, more direct and more for legal reasons that they need some more information before they go ahead and level the charges against him for the murder.
Once that is done, he will have a hearing there in Pennsylvania before a judge, and he can either waive extradition or he could fight extradition if he fights extradition. The district attorney there said in the press conference, I think he said something like 30 days or so.
If he doesn't fight extradition, then it's a much quicker process. And then the NYPD would simply be able to take him, bring him here. They'd have to book him here and then he would appear in a Manhattan criminal court. So we could be days away. We could be a month away. It all depends on when they file the charges and what he decides in terms of whether he's going to fight the extradition -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right Shimon Prokupecz, thanks very much.
I want to go now to our CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller. Also, Bryanna Fox, professor of criminology at the university of South Florida and a former FBI special agent, also retired New York Police Captain John Monaghan.
John Miller, what are your sources telling you tonight about the suspect and the investigation?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the picture that is emerging is becoming a richer one. You know, this is a young man who came from a life of privilege and wealth, and from a family that operated businesses that were successful, who went to UPenn and achieved a degree and then a master's degree and engineering, who lived for a time with friends in Hawaii.
In other words, Anderson, you know, for your experience and mine, in these cases he's not your average active shooter or a serial killer or political operative. He's a little bit different but he did seem to have this obsession about a healthcare industry that was getting too large, too powerful, and too greedy, which led him to strike out.
Let me tee up the question, though. He murders the head of the largest healthcare company in the United States allegedly, and then flees to Pennsylvania with plenty of cash, a weapon still ammunition. What was next? And why was he carrying this note?
[20:10:10] COOPER: Yes, and this note. I mean people are calling it a manifesto. I don't want to sort of make it grander than it was. His writing that he was found with reads in part, "these parasites had it coming." He also said, "I do apologize for the strife and trauma but it had to be done." Obviously, all of that is evidence that will be used in building the case against him.
MILLER: He sees himself, you know, in the pitch and tone of this two- page document, which apparently is contained in some kind of notebook as stepping up as being the one to avenge this growing problem and refers to him apparently UnitedHealthcare and he refers to it only by the name "United" talking about that it's gotten too big and too greedy.
COOPER: Professor Fox, I mean, why do you think he kept so much incriminating evidence with him including the fake ID he used at the hostel and the black -- and the pistol and the silencer.
BRYANNA FOX, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA, PROFESSOR OF CRIMINOLOGY: That is a great question. I was wondering the same thing. Why would you keep the gun? Why would you keep these writings? They certainly implicate him considerably, but I think it's not necessarily that he's thinking about, you know, why he's keeping it.
I think he's -- at the end of the day thinking he's still going to be able to pull something off, to get away with this. I expect that he's going to have a pretty compelling case that he's going to try to raise in front of a jury, essentially a jury nullification trying to get people to side with him and essentially see him in some way as a victim or his family or saying basically, like sympathize with me and turning it around.
That being said, I also think this whole thing he was trying to get away, but he was also trying to make as much noise along the way as possible, getting as much media attention, trying to call more attention to his messaging and essentially expecting to get caught but still trying to get as much bang for his buck out of it while he could.
COOPER: Chief Monaghan, I mean, you've seen a lot of different kinds of crime and criminals and shootings in New York. What do you make of this? I mean, now, given the suspect and how he was apprehended. What stands out to you?
JOHN MONAGHAN, RETIRED NYPD CAPTAIN: What stands out to me is the fact that, you know, earlier they were asked at the Pennsylvania leadership was asked, is he cooperating? And he said initially that he was, but then he stopped and then we charged him.
Anderson, that is the exact sequence of events that has to occur if you want to get information from this prisoner. The reason New York is not charging him, yes, there's a lot of legalese that has to happen but our detectives don't want to charge him yet, because once you charge him the absolute right to counsel attaches. Now, we can't question him. It's like his right to counsel right now is qualified. We read the Miranda and we ask him, would you waive? He can waive because the right is qualified at that time. Once we charge him, the right is absolute. We can no longer talk to him even if he wants to. This is why this delay in charging. We want to talk to this guy.
You heard Pennsylvania, they didn't charge him initially. When the news first broke, he was not charged. And as to that gun, I'm no ballistics expert and but I don't -- it doesn't look like something that was created by a 3D printer.
That kid went, you know, there's only three places Greyhound goes to out of the George Washington Bridge Bus Terminal, Philly, Boston or DC. He went to Philly, then he went to Pittsburgh. Now, Commissioner Miller asked a very good question. What was next?
He started -- Pittsburgh is well west of Altoona, he's heading back to New York as he approaches Altoona, Pennsylvania. I wonder how much ammunition was in that backpack.
Last thing I want to say is this. You can't help but smile when you think a kid six months out of the academy makes this collar. Let's think about what did not happen in that McDonald's. He didn't have a chance to draw that weapon to commit suicide, which he may have been prone to do. He didn't have a chance to draw that weapon to fight it out with the cops and he was still there. What kind of restaurant is that? Fast food restaurant. They were there very quickly.
How long do people sit in McDonald's to eat their breakfast? Ten minutes tops. They got there right away. Their presence -- it was a job well done.
COOPER: John Miller, let's talk about that gun, I mean, you know, there was initially -- there was reporting that maybe it was this veterinary gun. Chief Monaghan raises the idea that maybe it's not a 3D printed gun. What do you make of the fact that he still had a gun?
Because I remember you and I talking that first night of, you know would he keep the gun with him? Is the gun going to be in the backpack? You know, a lot of suspects wouldn't want to be caught with a gun on them, tying them to a shooting.
MILLER: It's so interesting because, you know, in New York he dumps the bicycle. He dumps the other backpack that he wears during the murder. You find a Tommy Hilfiger jacket and Monopoly money in that backpack.
[20:15:09]
But he keeps the gun and that does beg the question as Captain Monaghan, you know, also points out which is was he going to do another assassination? Is that the reason he has this note on him, which explains the mindset behind it?
A lot of people suggested, because of the way this unfolded that he wanted to get caught. I would suggest he didn't want to get caught, but he was prepared to get caught with this manifesto in place in case he was killed in the process of getting caught.
As it was when the police came in there, he was buried in his laptop at a table in the back of the McDonald's. He didn't have access to the gun on his person. He would have had to reach in the backpack. They would have reacted more quickly. So I think he just let this unfold to see if he could talk his way through it, and he couldn't.
COOPER: All right, we've got to take a break. When we come back. More on the next steps in the investigation and prosecution of the suspect, who still has yet to be charged with the killing itself.
Also, more on the so-called ghost gun that police recovered. If it is in fact a 3D printed gun, what are they? Why new technology makes them a growing problem for law enforcement?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:46]
COOPER: A private funeral was held today for UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, who as you know, was killed execution style last week in Midtown Manhattan. Tonight, one of the police officers who apprehended the suspect and who Captain Monaghan praised a moment ago. His name is Tyler Fry, he described the moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYLER FRY, LOCAL PENNSYLVANIA OFFICER: He was wearing a blue medical mask. As soon as we pulled that down, we asked him to pull it down. We -- me and my partner, and I recognized him immediately. Just from what we saw in the media with photos, videos, we just didn't even think twice about it. We knew that was our guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Back now with our panel. John Miller, what are the questions you are most curious to find out about motivation in this?
MILLER: Well, I mean he's given us a lot about motivation between the things he wrote on the bullet about insurance company habits of, you know, deny, delay, depose to the monopoly money as kind of the prop he left behind in the in the backpack in Central Park.
You know, which connotes greed and cash to, you know, the note that was found with him allegedly when he was arrested, which talks about the healthcare industry that's getting too big, too profitable, growing too fast, and at the expense of its consumers, some at their most vulnerable times. So as far as the motive --
COOPER: But I mean, does that make sense, though, to you? I mean, there's a lot of people who may feel that way who don't go out and do this. This is a guy from, you know, went to good schools. You know, graduated an Ivy League education, came from it seems like a wealthy family. What actually motivates a person like that to take this step?
MILLER: Well, I think that you will see if you look at his prior writings online, where he where he talks about the work of the Unabomber, right, here's an individual who struck out at corporate leaders that were really very hard to, you know, connect with each other as victims when he wrote his manifesto which didn't make sense to a lot of people, it was all about corporate greed and the environment and the future of the earth.
This individual, you could you could infer from this note, sees himself as someone who's stepping up and doing what needs to be done that others won't do, and apparently has cloaked himself in this idea that his smarts, his education, is not enough, that protest is ineffective, and that by moving to violence, he is taking the first step for many.
There's a lot of ego involved in there and a lot of self-importance that he's attaching, and that is not uncommon. And I think our next panel member will draw that out in these individuals.
COOPER: Professor Fox, I mean, do you think, is there a mental health issue with this person as, as more becomes apparent, you know, there was there was some indication online that maybe his family had been looking some friends reached out, I think, through his X account, saying that his family had been looking for him for a while. Does it make sense to you?
FOX: I mean, I think what John Miller said really gets to the core of this, which is I think he does have this almost Messiah like complex where he's thinking he's the only one who can, you know, fight to save the rest of us and rather than pursuing it through, you know obviously, his intellect, which is considerable or protests or nonviolent means, he for some reason decided that this was the best way to do it.
And I do think that that's going to eventually translate into his case strategy and philosophy. I think that he's going to probably pursue, you know, jury nullification, essentially, that he's going to find people or want people to be sympathetic with his cause and believe in him versus, you know, this poor victim.
COOPER: Captain Monaghan, I mean, it certainly seems like the photos that the NYPD were able to release making the suspect's image known to the public, were critical in all of this.
MONAGHAN: That was the key. It was absolutely the key. I mean the diner in McDonald's and the worker in McDonald's, they're not calling anybody without the photo that the NYPD released from that hostel. I mean, that was the key to the whole thing.
[20:25:10]
I'm not saying we got lucky there, but like, Chief Joe Kenny said, the Chief of Detectives, that he was not on the radar. This was very good police work and it's the way the system works. They put that photo out there, you guys broadcast it so everyone was aware of it and saw it. And these two people at McDonald's made the call. I mean, that's fantastic. You know, the notice that the DA from Manhattan is going out to Altoona with our guys. Here's an interesting piece of inside baseball for you with the NYPD and the way we investigate crimes and handle collars, arrests, there are some places in Europe when you just -- you develop your probable cause, you come to your sergeant, boss, I think this is my guy. All right, go get him.
Then you bring him in, you put him in the system, and then you sit down with your prosecutor. Prosecutor will confirm your probable cause, and then they go into court. Some places in Europe, Ireland in particular, and other places as well. You've got to -- when you get your probable cause, you've got to go see your prosecutor first. Then they authorize you to go out and make the arrest.
In the NYPD, there's only one time that we go to the prosecutor to confirm probable cause before we make an arrest, and it's on a homicide call so that DA has been involved with our detectives step by step all the way through. They've been preparing to bring this thing to court from the very beginning.
COOPER: John Miller --
MONAGHAN: So, the police, well done.
COOPER: John, in court tonight, the suspect pushed back against claims that the $8,000.00 cash found in his bag indicated he was trying to evade authorities and that the faraday bag that he had on him which blocked cell signal, showed any evidence of criminal sophistication. I'm wondering what you made of that on his comments in the courtroom.
MILLER: Without trying to sound flippant about it, you have an individual who's found with a ghost gun semiautomatic with a Glock magazine with six rounds in it, a manifesto about the healthcare industry and greed, after the head of that particular largest company is found dead in Manhattan and the two things he seeks to deny is that that wasn't his money, and that the faraday bag was just to keep things dry. That's odd.
COOPER: There's other, I mean, yes. I mean, what else is, I mean, what's he going to say about the gun, I guess?
MILLER: I mean, I always start off with, that's not my gun. Those aren't my bullets. That's not my manifesto. Leaving that out and saying, that's not my faraday bag seems like, you know, when he identified himself to the police with the fake license, they ran the license and it came back fake. The police officer said, why do you -- why did you lie to me? And his response was clearly I shouldn't have done that. It is what it is.
COOPER: John Miller, Bryanna Fox, John Monaghan, appreciate it, thank you.
Coming up, more on the weapon, which as we've discussed, police officials have called a ghost gun, untraceable, possibly made with 3D printed materials. More on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:26]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We've been reporting that the man being held in custody for the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was in possession of a so called ghost gun when he was searched by local McDonald -- local police at a McDonald's this morning.
Now according to the criminal complaint, the pistol and the accompanying black silencer were both 3D printed. The weapon is capable of firing 9 millimeter rounds like the ones used in the shooting. Ghost guns are untraceable. Self-assembled firearms often put together from parts sold online. No background check required.
We're going to get perspective now from Kenneth Corey, former Chief of Department and Chief of Training for the New York Police Department. He is, as well, he's a senior law enforcement analyst and a former -- and also joining us is former Secret Service Agent, Jonathan Wackrow.
Chief Corey, how easy is it for someone to get their hands on parts to assemble a ghost gun?
KENNETH COREY, FMR. CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT, NYPD: Yes, you know, these exploded in popularity just a couple of years ago, right? Ghost gun is the flying term for what the ATF calls a privately made firearm. And, you know, you hit it Anderson, right? You select all the parts, you order them online maybe from different vendors.
They all get delivered to you and you just kind of put it together yourself. You know, with the firearm in question where you mentioned 3D printing, you know, the parts would be 3D printed. There are the lower receiver where the grip is, the trigger guard, everything else is going to be made out of steel.
COOPER: Jonathan, the criminal complaint said that the gun and the silencer were both 3D printed. Do you think that's true? What does it tell you?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, it could be true. I mean, I don't see why the criminal complaint would not have the, you know, accuracy of the weapon in it. But, you know, Anderson, what I want to talk about is, you know, the ghost gun is actually the perfect complement to what law enforcement refers to as the pathway to violence.
And we think about that pathway to violence. It's, you know, you were almost looking at a pure model here. We're talking about someone who had an initial grievance. They, you know, were right -- I believe we're going to find some violent ideations that, you know, are coming out of this individual, a lot of research and preparation, all which went in prior to the attack.
So if you think about ghost guns, they're really an attractive option, you know, for, you know, various suspects in this suspect, in particular, just as we were talking about, that untraceability is a key factor of it. The easy to obtain a factor of it, you're buying it online. Again, if we think about all of the action steps that this suspect took in advance of the attack, it was very well thought out. Now some of the execution was sloppy, but really, you know, purchasing this weapon, you know, potentially online or having it made himself, you know, via 3D printing again goes to that level of preparation.
And then really with ghost guns, it's that rapid assembly. You need to have very little skill. You don't need to be an armor to put these weapons together to make them a functioning firearm.
[20:35:05]
All of this speaks further to the premeditation that this suspect had to, you know, cause harm against this executive.
COOPER: You know, Chief Corey, does it make sense -- I mean, given now you've seen the weapon that he was found with, you know, in the video, there's the -- we froze it on that moment right before the shooting, but then there's video of him what looks like maybe a malfunction, or there was some thought when it was the veterinary gun that that's the kind of gun that you actually -- would actually have to, for each bullet, put it into the chamber.
Does it make sense to you why the gun may have malfunctioned or he was there kind of handling the gun in the way that he was with this weapon?
COREY: No, I think what happens here is that this -- is that the addition of the suppressor on the pistol reduces the velocity so much. There's also a chance that he used subsonic ammunition, right, to try to be a little more quiet. So this slide isn't going to function as intended. It's not going to cycle all the way back and fully chamber a new round.
And I think that's what accounts for those three live rounds that are found at the scene, in addition to the three spent shells. He fires around, ejects the shell, but lacks the force to fully seat the next round in the chamber. And so he has to rack the slide manually when he does that every time he kicks out a live round and chambers up a new one.
That would happen either with the ghost gun or with a store bought, you know, regular manufactured firearm if you didn't modify the spring to allow for the suppressor.
COOPER: Jonathan, were you surprised the suspect still had the gun, which was loaded on him when he was apprehended?
WACKROW: Yes. I mean, I think a lot of the items of evidentiary value that he had on his person are a little bit shocking. I mean, typically what you see when someone commits such a violent crime and then does have the ability to escape during that escape route, they are trying to shed those items of evidentiary value, so it doesn't trace back to him. I mean, you think about the level of thought that went into the planning of this attack, you know, he put a lot of thought into getting away, how you get away that escape route. Maintaining that is really interesting to me. You know, these could be, you know, trophies that he wanted to have in the event that he was caught.
The manifesto that two-page letter explaining, you know, really sort of the rationale, his intent for doing this helps him control that narrative. Maintaining, you know, the weapon in the silencer, you know, again, either leads to, was there more to come, or was this something that he was holding on to as remembrance of this tragic act?
I mean, time will tell. Hopefully, he is talking to police. Hopefully, we'll be able to understand a little bit more about, you know, what was he intending to do next, you know, if he wasn't caught by the officers in Pennsylvania.
COOPER: Yes. Jonathan Wackrow, Kenneth Corey, thank you. Appreciate your time.
CNN is going to continue to monitor the story, bring you any developments as they occur. Be sure to tune in tonight for a special edition of Laura Coates Live. Laura and her team were just going to look at how the suspected gunman was found, examine the possible motive. That's tonight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.
Next tonight, we'll take you inside Syria and the fall of the Assad regime. It is stunning, the images we have seen today. CNN was -- got incredible access to a notorious military prison where families of potentially thousands of imprisoned Syrians believe -- or were went there today desperately looking for their loved ones.
We'll have more from the scene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:42:54]
COOPER: For more than 50 years, the Assad regime ruled Syria as a brutal dictatorship. Well, that came to an end over the weekend when rebel forces seized control of the capital city Damascus, toppling the regime, raising fears of a power vacuum during a time of increased tension in the Middle East.
Now, there are major questions tonight about what happens next, namely who will actually lead the new Syrian government. The Assad regime's outgoing prime minister met with rebel forces today and agreed to hand over power. A transitional prime minister has not yet been named.
National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan says the United States will work with all groups in Syria. Though civil war has raged for more than a decade, rebels launched a renewed offensive less than two weeks ago, cutting across the northwest and capturing the capital in a matter of days.
Celebrations as well as looting broke out in the streets. For years, reporting from Syria was all but impossible. That changed over the weekend as journalists, including CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward, returned to document the excitement, the relief of the Syrian people.
Clarissa joins me now with the latest. So, talk about what else is happening on the ground. What have you been seeing?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the streets of Damascus have been very quiet today. There has been no looting like we saw on the first day, but definitely you're seeing long lines of people. They are lining up for gas. They are lining up to take out cash. They are lining up to buy supplies, to buy bread.
And there's a sense that people are a little concerned that chaos could be looming. They want to be prepared. They're hearing the right sorts of wording from the rebels, which is giving them some confidence about what the future may hold.
And most importantly, Anderson, what we saw today is that people are now desperately trying to find out, once and for all, what has happened to their loved ones, many of whom disappeared during 14 years of a ghastly civil war. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
WARD (voice-over): The stream of families never stops. Climbing towards Syria's most notorious Sednaya prison, pushed on by reports that thousands of people imprisoned by the regime of Bashar al-Assad are still trapped alive in a section underground.
[20:45:09]
The red section of the prison, they've been trying for days to reach it, Maysoon Laboud (ph) tells us. There's no oxygen because the ventilation went out, and so they all may die. For the sake of Allah, help them.
WARD: Is someone from your family in the prison?
WARD (voice-over): My three brothers and my son-in-law, she says.
The roads are choked with cars, full of people looking for loved ones. As soon as they see our camera, they approach, holding lists of names of those who vanished inside Assad's dungeons, never to be seen again.
We have to get them out before tomorrow, this man says. They don't have food, they don't have water.
WARD: Everybody's just started running. It's not clear if they have managed to get into this part of the prison.
WARD (voice-over): My God, my God, the woman prays. My God, as the crowd surges towards the prison.
WARD: So it looks like they think that they have managed to get access. A lot of celebratory gunfire. People now just flooding in. WARD (voice-over): After the initial jubilation, an agonizing wait for confirmation from the rescue workers. Many here have been waiting for decades. Hope was something they didn't let themselves feel until now.
Rescue workers with Syria's white helmets break through the concrete looking for a way in. No one is certain where this red section is, or if it even exists. Inside the prison, family members are searching too.
WARD: You can see people everywhere just combing through all the papers and records they can find, looking for names, seeing if maybe their loved ones are there.
WARD (voice-over): Tens of thousands of Syrians were forcibly disappeared in Sednaya, lost in the abyss of a prison that was known as a slaughterhouse. Industrial scale, arbitrary detention and torture, all to keep one man in power.
WARD: They call this the white area of the prison because they say the conditions here are much better than in other areas, but you can see it's so miserable.
WARD (voice-over): In the center of the prison, another frantic rush. Someone thinks they have found a tunnel. They desperately try to get a look inside. Others look on helpless, not knowing is agony.
Assad may be gone, the legacy of his cruelty remains.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: And Clarissa, what kind of evidence is there that this so called red section of the prison actually exists? I mean, aren't -- there must be guards who used to work there around.
WARD: So Anderson, it's funny you should mention this because literally right after our report, there was a post that was put up online by a group that calls itself the Association of Detainees and the missing in Sednaya. They said that they are confident that actually the red section, the so-called red section, does not exist.
That all of the detainees who were held in Sednaya were actually released on December 8th by 11:00 a.m. And the White Helmets, that group of rescue workers who you saw desperately clawing through the rubble, trying to find this so-called red section, have now come out and said that the search is effectively over. It has concluded.
But I think what this really speaks to, Anderson, is the total chaos and confusion as people are trying to work out what is real, what is not, what is rumor, what is fact. I spoke to one woman who was looking for her brother, a man called Abdukalak (ph), and she said, all we want to know is if he is alive or not. That's all we want to know.
It should be. Such a simple question with a simple answer, but as many are finding here right now, Anderson, it is far from that.
COOPER: Yes. Clarissa Ward, thank you. Be careful. Joined now by Joby Warrick, a National Security Reporter for the Washington Post, author of the fascinating book, "Red Line: The Unraveling of Syria and America's Race to Destroy the Most Dangerous Arsenal in the World".
Let's talk about the Syrian militia that has claimed power in Damascus. Their Abu Mohammad al-Jolani. Who are these people?
JOBY WARRICK, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Yes. Well, Jolani, we know very well, because the first time his name came up was in 2012, when Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, as you remember, the leader of ISIS, sent him to Syria as his personal emissary to start a militia to basically become ISIS's man in Syria. So that's the starting point.
[20:50:08]
Later on, he breaks with Baghdadi, decides to pledge allegiance to Zawahiri, the Al Qaeda leader. So this is someone with a troubling background to say the least.
COOPER: He'd been imprisoned by the U.S. in Iraq.
WARRICK: Yes. In Iraq, he'd been held in prison as many of these jihadist had been.
COOPER: (INAUDIBLE).
WARRICK: Yes. And then, interestingly, what happens is, you know, the United States declares him a foreign terrorist organization, and so the leader of this foreign terrorist organization, and put a bounty on his head. So this is the person that's the leader of the movement.
He has claimed to have reformed, and we see, you know, encouraging rhetoric, certainly, from his people. And also, some, you know, activities that make us think that perhaps they've moderated, you know, if you look at Aleppo that was just freed a few days ago, you know, Christians are putting up Christmas decorations.
And so you have some sense of normalcy and intolerance. Certainly not the kind of situation we see if ISIS was in charge. But it's really early, and we don't really know what --
COOPER: And there's other armed militia groups. I mean, do you think there will be some power struggle or?
WARRICK: Well, and this is the unknown because these guys, HTS, this is the group that took over Damascus, they're one of several groups that are -- they're involved in this offensive and they only control these big cities. There are other groups that control other parts of the country.
There's a group in the south and there's rebels or Kurdish backed forces in the east and Turkish supported fighters in the north. And they don't necessarily get along. So I do worry that we might see a situation kind of like Libya a few years ago, when you have these competing, you know, militias and almost a warlord situation (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: It's incredible to me, as someone who followed the brutal civil war there and the uprisings that precipitated the whole thing and demonstrations that were ruthlessly crushed. How quickly this has happened?
WARRICK: Yes. I mean, I was just speaking to senior Middle Eastern officials literally two days before that Damascus was seized and they didn't see it coming. People with some of the best intelligence and sort of people inside Syria who could see what was going on. No one expected the massacre.
COOPER: And was the regime just completely hollowed? Did the army just disappear? Did the security service just disappear?
WARRICK: The way it was described to me was that, you know, Giuliani and his people were planning this push, and they just shoved against the front lines in northern Syria, and the whole thing collapsed like a house of cards, indicating just how hollowed out the Syrian army had become.
COOPER: So the U.S. now says they're working for partners on the ground to ensure chemical weapons from the regime are secure. What's the likelihood of that?
WARRICK: Yes. So we know that in 2013 and '14, most of the chemical weapons were taken out. There's this grand U.N.'s back mission that took out a lot of sarin (ph), the really bad stuff, the nerve agent stuff that could really kill people.
So much of that is gone. But the U.S. believes that some of it remains in the country. We don't know how much. We don't know what kind of condition it's in. But if you put aside chemical weapons, just think about the other things that would be available to terrorists if they wanted to grab it.
You know, air to -- surface to air missiles, you shoot down a plane, all kinds of just armaments and ammunition. And all those bases are not controlled in a sense that we would think of as being secure. So all that is potentially subject for looting.
COOPER: And in terms of the ability of the U.S. has to actually influence events on the ground, I mean, how limited is that?
WARRICK: It's pretty limited.
COOPER: Yes.
WARRICK: Because the, you know, the Americans are acknowledging -- they're not even speaking to HTS. They don't have a direct channel. So they have to go through the Turks or others.
COOPER: They still have a bounty on this guy.
WARRICK: They do. And we have it -- in fact, there was a big decision I think that the United States and other countries will have to make. Do we rescind this foreign terrorist organization designation? And we don't know yet, and we can't really know until we see how these guys behave on the ground.
COOPER: Russia also has, I mean, they have naval assets there. Do we know the status of that?
WARRICK: Yes. Well, these are, you know, long-term military leases that the Russians negotiated with the Syrian government. Of course, that government is gone now. But Russia has, in their opinion, the right to have a naval base in Tartus, which is actually their only warm water naval port in the world.
And they've been asking, they're trying to reach out to the rebels now to say, hey, you know, this is OK. Do we have a problem here? But nobody really knows what the future of those bases is going to be. There's a big Air Force Base there as well, there's Russian troops on the ground. Again, a potential area for conflict.
COOPER: Joby Warrick, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
We'll stay on Syria. Next, when we come back, the latest on the whereabouts of American journalist Austin Tice, who's been imprisoned there for more than 12 years.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:59:10]
COOPER: Both the Secretary of State and the White House today said they are working to locate freelance journalist Austin Tice. Tice was captured at a Syrian checkpoint in 2012 and has been jailed for more than 12 years. Here's his brother Simon talking to CNN this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SIMON TICE, BROTHER OF IMPRISONED JOURNALIST AUSTIN TICE: I would like to say that, yes, well, we know that Austin is alive and we know that Austin is in Syria. And so, at this point, we are encouraging anyone who's in a position to do so to provide him assistance and help him to return safely home to us.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Now, Simon Tice went on to say that the family is uncomfortable sharing how they know that he's alive, as it is, quote, "too much of a dynamic situation", in his words. The comments come a day after President Biden also spoke about Austin Tice.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are mindful, we are mindful that there are Americans in Syria, including those who reside there, as well as Austin Tice, who was taken captive more than 12 years ago. We remain committed to returning him to his family.
(END VIDEOCLIP) COOPER: Well, on Friday, before the regime had clearly fallen, members of the Tice family expressed some frustration with the answers they'd gotten from the Biden administration. This morning, Austin Tice's sister, Megan, told CNN that the administration is, quote, "extremely involved". We'll continue to follow the latest on Austin Tice.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
