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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
U.S. Resisting Reference to "Russian Aggression" in G7 Ukraine War Anniversary Statement; Interview with Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN); CNN Poll: American Worried by Trump's Push to Expand Power; Israel: Remains Initially Thought To Be That Of Shiri Bibas, Mother Of Ariel And Kfir, Is Not Hers; In The Middle Of A Measles Outbreak; Elon Musk's Private Security Detail Gets Deputized By U.S. Marshals Service. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 20, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. ELISABETH POTTER, SURGEON: ... I went to medical school to learn how to take care of human beings and I would assume that insurance would help facilitate that and not create obstacles. I think there's a good place for insurance, but we've got to have a reckoning. Maybe something really good could happen, we'll see.
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Meena Duerson, CNN, Austin, Texas.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Thanks Meena, and thank you for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:34]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, nearly three years into Russia's invasion of Ukraine, no one in the Trump administration from the president on down will call the war what it's always been and say who really started it. We're keeping them honest.
Also tonight, Dr. Sanjay Gupta in Texas in the middle of the worst outbreak of measles there in decades.
And later we watch these children being kidnapped by Hamas on October 7th, today their bodies finally came home. But Israel says the casket allegedly holding their mother's remains doesn't have her body or any hostage's body inside.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight, keeping them honest with something that sounds small but says a lot.
Late today, we learned that the Trump administration is resisting a reference to Russian aggression in a statement from the G7 countries. That document would mark the upcoming third anniversary next week of Russian aggression. Russia's invasion of Ukraine. This is a sea change.
Last year's version from the G7 reads in part, "We call on Russia to immediately cease its war of aggression." And this is what the State Department put out at the time at the United Nations, that the title reads: "Joint statement condemning Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine."
And just to be totally clear, it's hard to argue that what Russia did was did not meet the textbook definition of aggression, which, according to the United Nations, is the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another state.
Now, Russian tanks and troops on Ukrainian territory. Russian air strikes in Ukrainian cities. Russian atrocities against Ukrainian civilians for almost three years now. We've watched that. That's aggression and somehow the administration cannot even call it what it is. But before playing you some of what it is saying instead, I want to go back almost 35 years to another Republican president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This will not stand. This will not stand, this aggression against Kuwait.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was the first President Bush talking about Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in the summer of 1990, calling it what it was, an act of aggression. As we reported last night, though, the president has no trouble calling his Ukrainian counterpart something he is not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: A dictator without elections, Zelenskyy better move fast or he's not going to have a country left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It was the second time he said that yesterday, by the way. He also suggested on camera and social media that Ukraine started the war. His National Security adviser was asked about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: After the president's post on Truth Social yesterday, we need to know, who does he think is more responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Putin or Zelenskyy?
MICHAEL WALTZ, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, look, his goal here is to bring this war to an end period. And there has been ongoing fighting on both sides. His frustration with President Zelenskyy is that you've heard is multifold. One --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, that's what's called a non-answer, by the way. So from war of aggression and Russian aggression a year ago to ongoing fighting on both sides, which in Ukraine's case, you might also call resisting Russian aggression, fighting for their lives. Keeping them honest, some might call that, this administration refuses to. But it's not like they have to. It is possible, after all, to work toward ending a war and still call it what it is. You can do that. Or again, some can.
CNN's Kaitlan Collins joins us shortly.
Here's what happened in the press briefing today when she tried to follow up on that last exchange, you heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND WHITE HOUSE CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: You wrote in an op-ed in the fall of 2023 that, "Putin is to blame, certainly like Al-Qaeda was to blame for 9/11." Do you still feel that way now, or do you share the president's assessment, as he says, Ukraine is to blame for the start of this war?
WALTZ: Well, it shouldn't surprise you that I share the president's assessment on all kinds of issues. What I wrote as a member of Congress, was as a former member of Congress. Look, what I share the president's assessment on is that the war has to end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Okay, the war has to end. Clearly, that's not what Kaitlan was asking about. Here's what he said next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTZ: And what comes with that? What comes with that should be at some point elections. What comes with that should be peace. What comes with that is prosperity that we've just offered in this natural resources and economic partnership arrangement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The natural resources and economic partnership arrangement, it's a plan the administration is trying to push on Zelenskyy, which he's turned down in the past. And in the current form, at least, obliging him to turn over half the country's rare Earth minerals to the United States. But there was still no answer to Kaitlan's question. So let's listen more.
[20:05:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTZ: ... an end to the killing and European security and security for the world. The President is not only determined to do that in Europe, he is determined to do it in the Middle East. And just a few months ago, we had an administration that had tried for 15 months, week after week, sitting with you here and couldn't get us to a ceasefire, couldn't get us to a ceasefire or couldn't get our hostages out. Now we're at that point, we're back to the maximum pressure on Iran, and we will -- we have just begun and we will drive towards a ceasefire and all of those other steps. I'm not going to pre-negotiate or get ahead of the sequencing of all that. It's a very delicate situation. But this is a president of peace. And who here would argue against peace?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Some others have kind of gotten ahead of the negotiating in public. Again, though, who indeed who would argue against peace. Except Kaitlan's question wasn't who here is for peace? It was whether the President of United States is siding with an adversary, Russia, against an ally, Ukraine. When she tried to ask again, the White House Press Secretary stepped in and cut her off.
Again, not only is this a change in words and policy from a year ago. At its heart, we are watching a shift in how Russia and Vladimir Putin are viewed by the president of the United States, a shift that even some Republicans are not comfortable with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I support President Trump, and I believe that most of his policies on National Security are right. I believe his instincts are pretty good.
But what I'm telling you, whoever believes that there is any space for Vladimir Putin in the future of a stable globe, better go to Ukraine. They better go to Europe.
Vladimir Putin is a liar, a murderer and responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Which is one way of warning the president he says he supports. There's not a lot of Republicans that are standing up and saying something like that. Here's another who is from Nikki Haley, who served as his U.N. ambassador in the first administration, who also supports the president, just not on this.
Ambassador Haley tweeted last night, "These are classic Russian talking points exactly what Putin wants."
Meantime, the victim of Russian aggression, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his country, he met with U.S. Envoy Keith Kellogg and said the conversation, "restores hope."
Joining us now, CNN's Kaitlan Collins and from Kyiv, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh.
So, Kaitlan, we heard you trying to get a straight answer with the National Security adviser. It's basically now the position of the White House that or is it the position of the White House that Ukraine is to blame for getting itself invaded by Russia, or that by wanting to be not under the thumb of Russia and ultimately join NATO, that they caused this war?
COLLINS: Well, it's a fascinating moment for the president, some of his top National Security advisers, people like Mike Waltz or the Secretary of State Marco Rubio, have been pretty outspoken that that Russia is to blame for this and that Putin is to blame for this.
And they've written extensively, extensively about it. They were critical of Biden's policies when it came to Ukraine, saying that there needed to be an end goal, but they never made or waffled or wavered on who exactly it was that was responsible for what happened in Ukraine.
And Mike Waltz is someone who has written extensively about this. I was quoting from one op-ed that he wrote two years ago, in the fall of 2023, about this, but there are numerous other moments and instances where you can read comments from people like Mike Waltz or Marco Rubio, essentially saying that, yes, Putin is obviously to blame for this war, as everyone knows.
But it was remarkable to hear him not simply restate that fact that he has said many times there in the Briefing Room today, but obviously doing so would put him in a point of conflict with the President himself, who is now suggesting repeatedly that it was Ukraine that is to blame for this war and it is Ukraine that started this war when we know it was Russia that invaded.
And the real question that is raised is what that means for Ukraine in these negotiations, because there was never really a lot of love lost for Zelenskyy between Trump and that administration. But what's so clear now is they are becoming increasingly frustrated with Zelenskyy and arguing that he is being downright disrespectful to the administration.
I'll remind people that when he spoke out the other day, that was after Trump had suggested that it was his own country that was to blame for starting this war. And so, it is a real question now with Keith Kellogg, as you can see there, Trump's envoy to Ukraine and Russia in Kyiv today, what this looks like going forward. I will note we did not hear from either of the two people you see speaking on the screen today.
There was expected to be a press availability and there wasn't after. Just giving you a sense of how these top aides to Trump are either sidestepping or not answering questions in this key moment.
COOPER: Nick, how did these barbs from President Trump impact the envoy's visit to Kyiv? How did that go?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, look, he arrived just yesterday morning in a much different calmer environment, and things rapidly went into freefall.
Kellogg's meeting today, long awaited by Ukraine, they've been desperate, frankly, to get at the table with the Trump administration and put their points forward about these peace talks they've been excluded from when the U.S.-Russia Summit went underway in Saudi Arabia.
[20:10:19]
As Kaitlan mentioned, there had been an expectation that the two men would talk to the media afterwards. That was called off at the request of the American side, we learned.
Now, we did not hear from Kellogg after that particular meeting. He told me at the railway station on his arrival, he wanted to listen, talk about security guarantees. But my gosh, the ground has changed under his feet.
Instead, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in two statements, one describing the meeting as productive and going on to explain how they talked about prisoners of war, what essentially Ukraine needs out of these security guarantees.
He later put out an address where he said the meeting had restored hope. But again, there was a focus on this rare earth minerals deal.
Zelenskyy suggesting in his video address tonight that they're working fast to try and get somewhere on that. I paraphrase here, but stressing that the details really matter because the details make it successful.
Look, this deal has got nothing to do with future aid or security guarantees in its first form. It was about reimbursing the United States for old aid under the Biden administration and taking Ukraine's minerals from that. So, a startling transactional element in how Trump is dealing with all of this.
And also too, let's just remind ourselves about the comments on Air Force One last night where he talked about how his Treasury Secretary came here and didn't meet Zelenskyy because he was, "sleeping." Well, two obvious press appearances, the men together, visibly awake, sort of another mistruth. And it's that litany of frankly falsehoods, Anderson, which has done two things here.
It's made Ukrainians deeply concerned about the status of their relationship with the United States. Are they going to see the aid they need to survive and hold Russian occupation back? And secondly, to question where that leaves their President, he, I think, has done a fairly brave job of correcting disinformation.
He spoke, it seems, to multiple European leaders just tonight emphasizing that in his video address that he spoke to France, Norway, Finland, Canada, South Africa, even. There are supporters still there who are decrying him being called a dictator.
But it is a remarkable moment. And I just want to point out for you here, this is still a country at war. And just in the last hours we heard air defenses in operation here over Kyiv. We can show you some video of what that looks like. And I think that's often lost sometimes in the discussions between powerful men about how they feel about each other, et cetera. There are multiple casualties daily here, and we just heard ourselves in the skies above, in the hours passed, the intensity of what they do here to try and take out some of the Russian drones that come nightly -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Kaitlan, just briefly, I mean, I think one of the many important things Nick pointed out is that this meeting with Kellogg, it wasn't about like, future, it was about -- it was a like a give us half your rare earth minerals for what we have in prior administrations, given you. And then we'll figure out things later. I mean, this was a, like a claw back.
COLLINS: Yes, I've been talking to people about this. And obviously there's a very different view inside the Trump administration of that deal. And essentially Ukraine sits on these rare earth minerals that are incredibly valuable and that the U.S. has been working on programs to essentially be able to access more of them. They've struggled with it.
They're very valuable. They could be worth an incredible amount of money and a certain amount of value to the United States.
And so, what they are asking for is the rights to 50 percent of this. We'll see what actually comes out. If this agreement is something that they agree to. They've talked about investment in Ukraine as a result of this. I think there's still a lot of questions about what exactly that looks like and what those guarantees would be, if any security guarantees would be attached to this. As this is just going back and forth --
COOPER: It's not like saying that they're talking about like troops in a peacekeeping force or anything like that. The President has already taken that off the table.
COLLINS: Right, and so that's the question. They keep pushing that back to Europe, saying that maybe Europe can provide those security guarantees. But obviously, Europe would then be looking potentially to the United States as a backstop on those security guarantees and two European leaders are coming here next week.
But on that deal itself, I will say, I talked to people this morning about this. They were irritated that Zelenskyy rebuffed it essentially out of hand, saying he couldn't sell Ukraine right away. They are hopeful, though, that something will get signed, so that is something to keep an eye on to see. Does that change? How does it change, and what could he potentially ultimately agree to?
COOPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks, Nick Paton Walsh and Kate I appreciate it. And Kaitlan, we'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source." You have a conversation with Senator Elisa Slotkin of Michigan.
Joining us now is Minnesota Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar.
Senator, I mean, if White House officials wanted to walk back President Trump's comments about Zelenskyy being a dictator and blaming him for starting the war, they obviously could have done that. They're not going to, where are we in this?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): 0are standing up with Ukraine. That's our European allies, they've given over $50 billion in military assistance, over $100 billion in other assistance in total and they've also taken in refugees.
[20:15:13]
Now, we have played a major role in this, and we must continue.
Everyone knew that this war at some point, as all wars would end with some kind of negotiation. But you don't give away the store at the very beginning. And that is what President Trump did by literally attacking Zelenskyy, someone who has earned the respect of everyone in the world for how he has stood up for his country.
On one side, you have got Russia that is pairing up with China and North Korea and Iran. And then we have America and Ukraine and Poland and our allies. And so, I was actually, I guess I shouldn't have been shocked based on the last administration, what he did, but that he did this so quickly that he tried to undermine Zelenskyy.
But I continue to have faith that there are people in Congress of both parties that are going to stand up and say, no, this is wrong. We stand with Democracy, we stand with Zelenskyy and Ukraine.
COOPER: I mean, in terms of the advice the president is getting about how to deal with Russia and Ukraine, I mean, I would understand why his National Security adviser, Mike Waltz, would decline to even reaffirm his own previous condemnation of Vladimir Putin when Kaitlan Collins asked him about it, because that would, you know, that would -- we all know what the impact of that would be on his relationship with President Trump.
But I mean, nobody in this administration seems willing to say even the word aggression.
KLOBUCHAR: I know, it's almost like they're afraid, they're going to get thrown out for telling the truth. And I know, you have been there and I have been there.
I saw in Bucha the mass graves when Senator Portman and I went there. I saw the burned out apartment buildings in Irpin. I saw the presidential building where Zelenskyy is surrounded by sandbags and burrowed in there for year after year after year, and the injured soldiers and the people that come to Minnesota to get prosthetic legs. I've seen it all.
And for them to not even admit the truth is just disgusting at this moment in our country's history. And I'm just glad, I have -- I do believe while our colleagues on the Republican side of the aisle have refused to stand up to some of these nominees that have been put forward, like Kash Patel today, except for two of them, Senator Murkowski and Senator Collins. I do believe they have come out pretty strongly when it comes to Ukraine. You know, you have Senator Wicker saying, "There are good guys and bad guys in this war, and the Russians are the bad guys." You have Senator Thune, who's the leader, "There's no question who started the war. Russia is the aggressor here."
So, we need to hear more of that and then they need to put the pressure on the president. This should be a pressure campaign against Russia with our allies, not a campaign of accommodation, which the Trump administration is engaged in.
COOPER: Yes, and we played a bite from Senator Tillis also being, you know, very, very strong on this.
KLOBUCHAR: Yes.
COOPER: How much of this do you think is about President Trump agreeing with President Putin about geopolitics and sort of admiring the, you know, yes, let's take half the Earth minerals from Ukraine and not, you know, as payback for the past, not as something a deal moving forward necessarily.
KLOBUCHAR: Well, he has not been shy about saying that he admires Vladimir Putin. I don't know how he admires someone whose regime has shot down passenger jets and has murdered dissidents and has imprisoned journalists, but he has made that very clear.
That being said, what is strength here? Strength is winning. Strength is standing with our allies. And eventually, as you can see, Ukrainians love America.
I was once -- heard the story of a deli where the person giving the food to our people from the embassy wrote, "Thank you, thank you, thank you."
For a while they were naming their kids HIMAR. They love America and this is a huge ally to have going in the future, but not if we run, not if we leave, not if we literally let Vladimir Putin and his troops march through Ukraine and who knows where they go next to Poland or the next place, which would then put America because of our NATO obligations in the middle of a war. So there is every reason, yes, a new president can come in and start negotiations. That can be a good thing but you have to negotiate from strength and he is doing the opposite.
COOPER: Senator Klobuchar, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: Great to be on. Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Coming up next, with today being exactly a month since the president was sworn in, we're joined by Trump biographer and "New York Times" reporter Maggie Haberman to break down what has been four tumultuous weeks of the new administration.
And later, the administration's top envoy for hostage affairs, on the sad return of the remains of two kidnapped Israeli children and the uncertainty surrounding their mom. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:24:01]
COOPER: The White House tonight looking as tranquil as it always does in that shot. In reality, though, right from day one, in all those executive orders, the president signed in that Q&A session with reporters, the first four weeks of this administration have been certainly fast paced. And whether you agree with the decisions made so far or not, many have been consequential.
Joining me now is CNN political analyst, "New York Times" senior political correspondent and Trump biographer, Maggie Haberman.
So, Maggie, one month into President Trump's new term, obviously a lot on his plate. The war in Ukraine, DOGE, pushing out his perceived enemies from the Justice Department. Is it clear how -- I mean, do you know how the president thinks it's going? I would assume he thinks it's going pretty well.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He's quite happy, Anderson. I mean, I think there are things that he worries about. You know, inflation is clearly one. You've heard him talk about that a number of times, his advisers, certainly are worried about that, because for all of the measures he's taken so far, there aren't any that really directly impact voters in terms of their pocketbooks and their lives, you know, in their homes, you know, the price at grocery stores and so forth.
But he has done most of what he said he was going to do. There was a plan to come in with this shock and awe campaign on a number of fronts, and he's done it.
And he's very happy about the hostage exchanges, and he's very happy about a number of things. But there's also a sense of, you know, when you flood the zone, then it's very hard for anything specific to stick out and stick. And I think you are seeing the administration try to highlight certain things that are not just answering questions about what DOGE is up to.
[20:25:31]
COOPER: He's also gotten pretty much the nominees he wanted through Congress.
HABERMAN: Yes, I mean, Congress has done extremely little to push back in any real respect. And by Congress, I really mean the Congressional Republicans and Senate Republicans.
There was a moment where it looked as if Pete Hegseth would be in trouble for Defense Secretary, and that was where the Trump team, with a lot of allies in the broader both MAGA movement and historical conservative movement, moved in to really aggressively make basically an example of Senator Joni Ernst if she did not come on board.
And so, that is his approach to a number of things, is making examples of specific people. And you can see that on a number of fronts, whether it is with media coverage, with this fight with the Associated Press, or whether it is, you know, on foreign policy with Volodymyr Zelenskyy. That is how he is approaching this term, because he can because there is really nobody stopping him from the checks and balances perspective.
COOPER: I am fascinated by this deal he wants to take half of Ukraine's rare earth minerals.
HABERMAN: So his approach to foreign policy is almost always trade based and economic based. He has a very mercantilist perspective toward everything. And so, yes, he looks at it, as, you know, the U.S. should be repaid for what he thinks it should not have spent on Ukraine defense but the approach that the U.S. has taken to suggest that this is why Ukraine should come to the table.
That was a phrase that was said in the briefing room today over and over again, make Ukraine come to the table. There's two separate tables. There's one table that the U.S. is having with Russia, and then there's a different table that the U.S. is having with Ukraine. And Ukraine is at a pretty big disadvantage at that table.
COOPER: What do you hear from people in the White House from around? I mean, are they happy with what the President is doing?
HABERMAN: It depends on who you talk to. I mean, most people within the administration are overall happy with what Trump is doing. There are a number of people, both inside and outside the administration, who were less than thrilled with him, saying that that Ukraine started the war.
You know, there are certain remarks that he has made related to Russia in terms of what are clearly concessions that doesn't thrill everybody. But in general, you know, what you hear people say is this is what he ran on. He didn't explicitly run on doing things this way in terms of stopping the war.
He did run on stopping the war, and he made clear that he was a foreign aid skeptic. So in that perspective -- from that perspective, people shouldn't be surprised. But there are things that, you know, some in his administration wish he was doing differently and some are having trouble, you know, explaining about what the broader aim is.
COOPER: I was talking with Kara Swisher the other night. She said at first she thought the president and Elon Musk, were destined to have some sort of falling out sooner than later. Now she thinks Musk has figured out how to be around the president for the long haul. What's your sense of how that relationship is going and his role?
HABERMAN: Well, yeah, the long haul is long with Donald Trump until it isn't long anymore. It's definitely true that Musk is in a better place with him now than at points during the transition, when Trump felt like he was around Mar-a-Lago too much. Now he's actually doing things as opposed to just sort of, you know, being at the club and talking to people while Trump was having meetings and dinners. Trump sees him as enacting things that Trump likes. I think what gets lost here too, Anderson, is how much political heat Elon Musk is absorbing. That really is for actions that Trump has authorized. But Elon Musk has become the focus. And so, Trump and a lot of his advisers see Elon Musk as a useful heat shield. I think that if you start seeing as one of them said to me, Elon Musk's popularity rising and Donald Trump's falling, that may become when the long haul shortens.
COOPER: Interesting, Maggie Haberman thanks so much. We appreciate it.
HABERMAN: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, we have breaking news about the handover of the remains of Israeli hostages held by Hamas. Two of whom have been confirmed as Kfir and Ariel Bibas. The youngest kids to be taken captive in October 7th. We'll have a report about that.
Plus, the new case of measles being reported in the region, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is in Texas at the center of the outbreak.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:39]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: There's breaking news tonight, Israel now reports that of the four sets of remains handed over by Hamas today, three have been positively identified, including that of four-year-old Ariel and nine-month-old Kfir Bibas.
In a stunning development, however, one set of remains, initially believed to be that of the boy's mother, Shiri, was not hers, nor that of any other Israeli hostage. The IDF also says that forensic evidence and intelligence suggests the boys were murdered.
I want to get some perspective now from Adam Boehler, the United States Envoy for Hostage Affairs. Mr. Boehler, I appreciate you being with us. Did Hamas just lie about this? I mean, wouldn't be a surprise. They lied about lots of things. How did this happen?
ADAM BOEHLER, UNITED STATES ENVOY FOR HOSTAGE AFFAIRS: I mean, it's stunning. I don't know what they thought when they put the body of somebody else in a coffin and said that it was the mother of two kids that had been brutally murdered, whether they thought Israel wouldn't find that or not. But it's absolutely stunning.
COOPER: Israel -- according to Israel, there's also evidence that the children were murdered. Hamas had earlier, months ago, made a statement that they had been killed in an Israeli airstrike. Do you know anything more about what Israel has found out?
BOEHLER: The Israelis called us. They called me. They called Steve Witkoff, Secretary of State Mike Waltz, just before these news reports came out, just before they released it. And they said that forensic evidence definitively proved that those two kids, those two boys were brutally murdered in November. So a month after they were taken, And they said that forensic evidence confirmed that. [20:35:19]
COOPER: If the Israeli assessment is accurate and Shiri Bibas's body was not handed over, would U.S. and Israeli officials view that as a violation of the ceasefire deal? Because, I mean, yes, would that be a violation besides being a horrific --
BOEHLER: It's a clear violation --
COOPER: -- I mean, just a horrific act.
BOEHLER: I mean, like you said, Anderson, it's horrific. It's a clear violation. And if I have one piece of advice for Hamas now, it's not only do you need to release her body immediately, but we have the bodies of four Americans that are still there. And we have one American, Edan Alexander. I think you know his family well.
COOPER: Yes.
BOEHLER: And you've done a great job reporting on it. He needs to come home. And if I were them, I'd release everybody or they're going to face total annihilation right now.
COOPER: What options do the Israelis have at this point to find Shiri Bibas?
BOEHLER: I think right now they need to demand through every country that's coordinating, and they need to go out. And the question here -- and this is the question I've asked myself, why would they do this? And I think probably the answer is she was so brutally murdered that she's being hidden or the body has been disposed of, and they probably cannot give her back.
COOPER: I mean, do you think they -- I mean, did they think that the Israelis would not do testing on the remains? I mean, I don't understand the thought process here.
BOEHLER: It's completely ridiculous. It's completely ridiculous. And the reality here is this is the truth. Right now with Hamas, you have very few people left. And, by the way, Anderson, this was actually a particularly militant splinter group off of Hamas. And so these are particularly difficult.
You're talking about the worst of the worst here when you're talking about worse than Hamas. But, you know, these are people that can brutally murder a nine-month-old, younger when the kid was murdered, and somebody that would be four.
And so, they're -- I wouldn't say they're sophisticated people. They're brutal murderers. And they didn't think through it, quite frankly, I'm sure, or didn't know what to do.
COOPER: Adam Boehler, I really appreciate the work you do. Thank you.
BOEHLER: Yes. Thanks, Anderson. COOPER: With this news as the backdrop, I want you to know a little bit more about Ariel and Kfir, their mom and their story, which is now, as it has been for so long, ridden in tears.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): On that day of sickening slaughter, this horror stood out. Shiri Bibas cornered, captured, clutching her two children, four-year-old Ariel and nine-month-old Kfir. More than 40 other residents of their kibbutz Nir Oz, including Shiri's parents, were murdered that day. But Shiri and her kids were taken into Gaza. This surveillance footage, released later by the IDF, shows Shiri and her children being covered.
Shiri's husband, Yarden, was captured as well. Beaten by a crowd, his head bloodied, he ended up captive in Gaza, too.
YIFAT ZAILER, COUSIN OF SHIRI BIBAS: We're a small family, and half of them are kidnapped.
COOPER: Half of your family is there?
ZAILER: Yes.
COOPER (voice-over): I met with Shiri's cousin, Yifat Zailer, a few days after the kidnapping. She was desperate for word of Shiri and Yarden and their children.
ZAILER: I want to know that they are being fed, if their diaper was changed, if Kfir got his formula, his bottle, something to eat. This is the only thing that I can do. This is the only thing that helps me be sane right now, is sitting here with you and talking to reporters and showing their faces and telling their story.
I want my family back. Please, I want my family back.
I'll try to be strong and stoic and speak clearly, but I'm devastated. I'm devastated, Anderson. I don't know what else to do. We need institutions from the world. We need someone to take care of those captive people, civilians, every hour, every day.
It's getting worse. I want my family. If they by any chance are watching this, I want them to know that we love them and we're doing everything we can to get them.
COOPER (voice-over): Her family heard nothing for almost two months. Then Hamas claimed the children and their mother were killed in an Israeli airstrike. Yifat Zailer and her family didn't know what to believe.
[20:40:04]
ZAILER: Fifty-three days of not knowing. Nothing about Shiri, Yarden, Kfir and Ariel, nothing. Nothing. Even the hostages that were released, no one saw them. Nothing. It's -- I don't know if a nightmare is even the best way to describe the situation that we are living.
COOPER (voice-over): After 484 days held captive, Yarden Bibas was released this month. Embraced by his parents, he had no wife and children to come home to.
And now this. Hamas, who stole the children and their mother, today using them once again for propaganda, staging a public spectacle. Four coffins put on display. They said they held the remains of Shiri Bibas, her two children and another hostage, journalist Oded Lifshitz. Hamas gunmen handed them over to the Red Cross.
Back on Israeli soil, the return was more dignified. Mourners came to see the motorcade and pay their respects. Hours later, however, more heartbreak.
Israel's military confirmed Oded Lifshitz's remains were in a casket, as were the children's. But Shiri Bibas's body was not. An unidentified body was, but it doesn't match her or any of the other hostages, according to the IDF.
Across Israel, and much of the world tonight, she and the others are being remembered. In death, but also as they were in life. Oded Lifshitz, Shiri Bibas, and her two little boys, Ariel and Kfir, who never got the chance to grow up.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:01]
COOPER: Another case of measles confirmed in New Mexico today. That makes nine cases in nine days. The first were reported last week in a county that borders West Texas, which has reported at least 58 cases over about three weeks. Most children and most unvaccinated. Now, we should point out there's no confirmed connection between the two outbreaks.
Our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, recently went to Texas trying to understand how the state's worst outbreak in decades happened and if it could get worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So many of the people who get infected with measles, who get sick and need to be hospitalized, are children. So we're here at Covenant Children's, and I want to give you an idea of how this works over here.
Somebody pulls up. Even before they go inside the hospital, they'll actually get evaluated in this shed out here. They want to determine if someone actually has measles, they need to be put into personal protective gear, and then taken inside the hospital. DR. LARA JOHNSON, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, COVENANT HEALTH LUBBOCK SERVICE AREA: We've had over 15 patients admitted here in our children's hospital with measles over the past several weeks.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Lara Johnson is the chief medical officer here.
GUPTA: How do you even begin to approach this? A patient comes in, what do you do for them?
JOHNSON: Most of the patients who've been admitted have had respiratory issues. They've been needing supplemental oxygen and respiratory support to help them get over the viral pneumonia part that we see with measles.
GUPTA: It's one thing to treat these patients on the ground, but the key in the middle of a measles outbreak is to try and prevent more cases from occurring. That's really challenging, given how contagious this is.
Appreciate it. Hey, how are you doing? Nice to meet you. How's it going?
DR. JENNIFER SHUFORD, COMMISSIONER, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF STATE HEALTH SERVICES: Schools can be expected in (ph).
GUPTA: That's kind of the reaction we're getting.
SHUFORD: Freezing weather and measles outbreak.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Jennifer Shuford is the commissioner for the State Health Department.
GUPTA: What do you think the next weeks and months is going to look like?
SHUFORD: I think that we're going to continue to see cases. And what the next few months look like kind of depends on how effective we are at getting messaging out about, you know, making sure that people get vaccinated, that they stay at home if they're sick, and really trying to push that message through really trusted community leaders.
GUPTA: You and I have been doctors for some time. I think me a bit longer than you. But have you ever seen measles before?
SHUFORD: No, and I'm an infectious disease physician.
GUPTA: Wow.
SHUFORD: I've never diagnosed a case.
GUPTA: That's incredible.
SHUFORD: It's because, you know, measles was declared eliminated --
GUPTA: Right. SHUFORD: -- from the United States back in the year 2000 because of the effectiveness of that vaccine, and it's only now with falling immunization rates, not just here in Texas, but across the country and around the world, that we're starting to see more of these outbreaks.
GUPTA (voice-over): Now, while most of the cases have been in a close- knit rural community, worry has started to spread.
GUPTA: Hello.
AMY GANDY, PARENT OF IMMUNOCOMPROMISED CHILD: Hi, how are you doing?
GUPTA: How are you doing? Hey, I'm Sanjay.
GANDY: Amy. Nice to meet you.
GUPTA: Nice to meet you. You, too. How's it going?
ERIC GANDY, PARENT OF IMMUNOCOMPROMISED CHILD: All right, this is Owen.
GUPTA: Hey, Owen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Owen.
AMY: Owen was a micro preemie, so he spent the first 102 or 103 days in the hospital. And since then, you know, with his weakened immune system and everything that he went through, we just don't know how he would handle the measles.
GUPTA (voice-over): Amy and Eric Gandy have lived in Lubbock for 20 years.
E. GANDY: And the good thing about it is Riley really likes getting shot, so.
RILEY GANDY, ERIC AND AMY'S DAUGHTER: No, I don't.
GUPTA (voice-over): Now both their kids, 11-year-old Owen and 9-year- old Riley, are vaccinated. But that's the thing about outbreaks. Low vaccination rates can put vulnerable people in danger.
E. GANDY: I mean, it's really, I think it's time that everybody, like, takes a look just at your political reasons or your religious reasons and kind of think about that group of people, the new or the old information about vaccines, and really take a deep look into what it is that you really believe and why you really believe that.
[20:50:15]
GUPTA: You just set this up.
DR. RON COOK, LUBBOCK HEALTH AUTHORITY: We just set this up.
GUPTA: When outbreak is happening, you say --
COOK: Set it up this week.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Ron Cook is with the Lubbock Health Authority.
COOK: We've got plenty of vaccine, but we just need people to come get it.
GUPTA: And are people coming in? They did, 13 yesterday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 23.
COOK: 23 yesterday.
GUPTA: 23, OK. How would you describe what's going on here?
COOK: We have pockets that are not well vaccinated. But these individuals, like in Gaines County down there, that come to shop here. We have Costco and Sam's and Walmart's, and they come here to do big shopping on the weekends, and they bring their kids, and they walk through Costco or they walk through these big shopping centers, and then they're exposing these people.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from Covenant Children's Hospital. How long do they expect this outbreak to last?
GUPTA (on-camera): Yes. They think we're probably at the beginning of this right now, Anderson. It's tough to tell, so maybe weeks to months. But as you heard there in the piece, this probably is primarily focused on the small Mennonite community, but it's starting to spread beyond that.
The numbers that we hear, the official numbers, 58, it's really hard to know what to make of those numbers. There's so many people who don't come forward at this point. I'm thinking the numbers are likely to grow just because there's more cases that will come forward.
But then given how contagious this is, over the next weeks and months, could potentially have hundreds of people who actually come down with measles, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Sanjay, appreciate the update. Thanks very much.
Coming up next, Elon Musk's security detail, how members of that team were just given the rights and protections of federal law enforcement. John Miller is here to explain what those powers are and what it actually means.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:10]
COOPER: A new development tonight on Elon Musk. Sources say the U.S. Marshals Service has deputized members of the private security detail that travels with him. This gives them certain rights and protections typically reserved for federal law enforcement agents. It's not immediately clear how many of his detail were actually deputized.
Our Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller, joins us. This is a first that I've heard.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, I made a bunch of calls tonight to say maybe I've never heard of it, but maybe somebody else has.
COOPER: Right.
MILLER: So far in the U.S. Marshal community, I haven't found anybody who remembers a private citizen having their security detail made up of other private citizens given the authority to be federal law enforcement officers for the purpose of guarding this person.
COOPER: Musk has a very large, I mean, probably one of the largest private security forces around him in America.
MILLER: And a big footprint. So here's a guy who flies around the United States, flies private, flies around the world. One of the things that probably has been annoying to him, as it is to other billionaires, is, well, where are my people licensed to carry firearms and what states are they not?
Is it legal for them to fly even on the private plane with these weapons as they cross all those state lines? This basically eliminates all of that. By making them federal law enforcement officers as Deputy United States Marshals, they have the power to cover -- carry weapons on airplanes, private or commercial, any of the 50 states.
COOPER: Can they arrest people?
MILLER: So, the U.S. Marshal and the Deputy U.S. Marshal is a federal law enforcement official who can arrest people for any federal violation committed in their presence. Now, assaulting Elon Musk as some kind of titular employee of the U.S. government in the course of his work, or because of that work, would fall under that.
So, yes. Theoretically, yes.
COOPER: And, like, why wouldn't he just have U.S. -- regular U.S. Marshals or Secret Service detail?
MILLER: I think you've pressed the button here.
COOPER: He does -- he wouldn't want -- why have -- I mean, he has, I mean, from everything I understand, he has a very high-caliber, obviously, security detail.
MILLER: Right. I mean, you would imagine that Elon Musk's security detail is probably former Special Forces operators. He's used to them having them around. They're used to him. They know how he likes his security done.
COOPER: Right. Why have new people come in? MILLER: But, I mean, the logical legal answer would be if your government work is causing you to be threatened, you'd get a detail of U.S. Marshals assigned to you by the Attorney General. They would already be trained. They would already be law enforcement officers.
And they would understand the liability that if you get into a situation and, say, something goes wrong, or they shoot somebody, or it's the wrong person, or it's in the crossfire, you know, the U.S. government's liable for that. Here's the interesting thing. If that happens now, the U.S. government's liable for it anyway.
COOPER: So if one of his detail shoots somebody, then it's the Marshals Service that has to --
MILLER: Well, it's the Marshals Service that conferred upon them the authority to carry these weapons across state lines and to act in that law enforcement capacity to protect their protectee so, yes. You know, the Marshals Service is the oldest law enforcement agency in the United States. It started in 1789.
And this ability to deputize people goes back to, you know, when Marshal Dillon had to go after Jesse James and --
COOPER: Yes.
MILLER: -- round up the posse.
COOPER: Right.
MILLER: This is a very different use of that authority.
COOPER: How long do you think this would be in effect? I mean, if he stopped, you know, his DOGE service and, you know, went back to just being Elon Musk, would that continue? Probably not.
MILLER: Well, I mean, it's up to the director of the U.S. Marshals Service, who right now is acting, who has that authority. But I would imagine this is coming through the White House.
COOPER: But it's not like he could sort of -- yes, I mean --
MILLER: I don't think he could keep them past his government service if anybody was looking.
COOPER: And we don't know how many of his detail have actually been deputized.
MILLER: Don't know.
COOPER: Yes. Like much else surrounding what's going on with Elon Musk.
MILLER: Bit of a mystery.
COOPER: Yes. John Miller, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
That is -- that's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
