Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Gene Hackman and Wife Had Been Deceased for Quite a While When Found in Separate Rooms; British PM Says He Did Not Discuss Annexation of Canada with Trump; Tate Brothers in Florida; Tate Brothers Arrive In Florida After Leaving Romania; MAGA Media Provided With "Epstein Files" At White House Briefing; Trump's Promise Of "Very Big Deal" With Zelenskyy Undercut By Officials' Widespread Doubt Over Ukraine's Resources. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 27, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... and Tate, just last week writing "Hate me all want. Women are all sex workers." Comments like those and the charges in Romania why Florida Governor Ron DeSantis says the brothers aren't welcome in his state.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): No, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with that type of conduct.
BASHIR (voice over): Nada Bashir, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to Nada and thanks very much to all of you for being with us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:33]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, with America now siding with Russia, the Britain's Prime Minister, comes to Washington trying to shore up our alliance against Putin's aggression. John Bolton joins us for that.
Also tonight, why are two notorious online influencers both facing sex crime allegations in Romania, suddenly showing up in Florida? Well, Governor DeSantis says they aren't welcome.
And breaking news, authorities released their first autopsy findings in the shocking death of legendary actor, Gene Hackman and his wife.
Good evening. That is where we begin tonight. We've got a lot to cover from Washington and the Trump administration, but there are some late developments in the mysterious deaths of Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy, along with their dog. And for anyone who loved the movies and especially some of the finest acting in this generation, news of Gene Hackman's death at the age of 95, though certainly not unexpected, came as a blow. Then came the disturbing details.
His wife Betsy, who was 65, was also found dead yesterday in their New Mexico home. Their bodies discovered in different rooms. By some reports, they were partially mummified, indicating they had been dead for some time.
An open prescription drug bottle and scattered pills were found in the bathroom near her body on the floor. Autopsies were done. Toxicology testing was ordered and a full investigation is underway.
Gene Hackman, as you may know, gave up moviemaking in 2004. Seven years later, in 2011, he told "GQ" Magazine he would make another film, one more movie "If I could do it in my own house, maybe."
Well, that was the house he would die in 14 years later. CNN's Josh Campbell joins us now from Santa Fe with more. So what do we know about this investigation? What did came out of the autopsy?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a lot of work for investigators to do, but they did provide at least some information initially on the autopsies. We know that they've been performed on both Hackman as well as his wife. They're saying that based on that initial assessment, there's no external trauma that they found. They did indicate that they have ordered carbon monoxide, as well as toxicology testing, which is a standard portion of what the medical examiners usually do in order to try to get to that cause of death.
Anderson, this isn't just a tragedy, but it's also a great mystery right now. When you look at all those factors that you just talked about there earlier, this happened yesterday, whenever a call came in to 911, it was a caretaker that found them deceased at their home. Authorities arrived. The door was open. It was unsecured. They found no signs of any type of theft. But what they did find was Betsy Arakawa on the bathroom on the ground near her, where these scattered pills in a closet nearby was a deceased dog. And then in another room, they found Hackman by himself.
And so, there's a lot of work going on to try to figure out not only what caused that, but what is the timeline, who may have died first, again, tried to get to what actually happened here. And it's worth pointing out, initially there was a question of was this some type of carbon monoxide exposure because you had, you know, three dead living beings in the same home. Fire department came in as well as the gas company. Initially, they say they found no signs of a gas leak.
COOPER: And there was another dog alive in the house. And I understand one on the ground. When will full forensic tests be completed?
CAMPBELL: Yes, these can take time. Sometimes weeks, sometimes even months. Whenever were talking about these medical examiner investigations, because they have to get it right. They have to go through a lot of testing that's often sent out to other laboratories.
And in this case, it's not just the medical examiner, but the sheriff also running their own investigation. What they found at that house when they arrived concerned them so much that they went to a judge and said, we want the authority to go search this residence, to try to gather as many clues as we can find in order to try to determine what happened here. COOPER: All right, Josh Campbell, thank you. We're going to have you back along with John Miller. We're going to have more details on what we know about what happened to Gene Hackman. We've reached out to also to a forensic pathologist to talk about how he and his wife were found, the condition they were in, what that may tell us. We're also going to look back at Hackman's extraordinary life on screen.
But before that, I want to turn to the big story ahead of tomorrow's White House visit by Ukraine's President Zelenskyy.
Today, Britain's Prime Minister met with President Trump and with the Atlantic alliance under enormous stress over Ukraine. He seems to have succeeded in calming some very troubled waters, at least for now.
Things have certainly been tense lately between Washington and the European allies. In just the last few days alone, we've seen the United States side against our traditional allies and side with Russia at the U.N. over refusing to call Russia the aggressor for their invasion.
We've heard the President call Ukraine's president a dictator, even though he isn't but not say the same about Vladimir Putin, who is. We watched France's Emmanuel Macron lightly hold the President's arm and gently try to correct his mischaracterization of European support for Ukraine. And we heard Germany's likely next chancellor openly calling for a divorce of sorts from the United States.
[20:05:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMANY'S CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATIC UNION PARTY LEADER (through translator): My absolute priority will be to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that step by step, we can really achieve independence from the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's just some of what set the stage for today's White House meeting, where both President Trump and Prime Minister Starmer spent much of their joint press conference soothing over differences, not amplifying them. Listen to the response to a question about the president's talk of annexing Canada.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: You're trying to find a divide between us that doesn't exist. We're the closest of nations, and we had very good discussions today, but we didn't discuss Canada.
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: That's enough, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, here's the presidents answer to a reporter asking whether he would apologize to President Zelenskyy tomorrow for calling him a dictator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And, I think we're going to have a very good meeting tomorrow, 11:00. And I think we're going to have a very good meeting tomorrow morning. We're going to get along really well. Okay. We have a lot of respect. I have a lot of respect for him.
We've given him a lot of equipment and a lot of money, but they have fought very bravely. No matter how you figure it, they have really fought. Somebody has to use that equipment. And they have been very brave in that sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, he didn't really answer the question there. Instead complimented the man downplaying the rift between the two. And earlier today there was this question and answer as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, do you still think that Mr. Zelenskyy is a dictator?
TRUMP: Did I say that? I can't believe I said that. Next question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, for the most part, throughout his public events today, the President did not take the chances he was offered to re-air familiar grievances with Zelenskyy and the allies, whether Prime Minister Starmer or others are responsible for this, unclear. What is clear is that the prime minister clearly tailored his remarks to his audience of one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STARMER: We're leaders together in so many areas, ranked one and two in the world as investment destinations, one and two for universities, one and two for Nobel Prizes, one and two in golf as well, by the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: If that weren't enough, Mr. Starmer had some help from Buckingham Palace today as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STARMER: Yes, so, this is a letter from His Majesty, The King. It's an invitation for a second state visit. This is really special. This has never happened before.
This is unprecedented and I think that just symbolizes the strength of the relationship between us. So, this is a very special letter. I think the last state visit was a tremendous success.
TRUMP: It was.
STARMER: His Majesty, The King wants to make this even better than that. So, this is this is truly historic. An unprecedented second state visit.
TRUMP: That's a great --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now, CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who is at the White House for the proceedings today, really selling that letter there, kind of fascinating.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is fascinating because it's always interesting to watch Trump's interactions with world leaders, especially ones who don't know him, as well as maybe the French President does, who was here earlier this week, you know, calling him Donald, you know, touching his wrist as he was correcting him about the characterization of Europe's aid to Ukraine.
This meeting was fascinating because Trump has sat down with the British Prime Minister during the transition, but this is the first time that they are in the Oval Office together since Trump took office. And that was one of the first things that the British Prime Minister did.
It had echoes of what the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, did the last time Trump was in office, when she invited him and delivered a letter from the Queen for a state visit. And obviously, Trump is someone who, greatly considers the Royal Family and obviously wants this.
But it was certainly messaging, Anderson, in terms of making sure that was the first part of this, before they got into the questions from reporters in that sit down. And in that press conference later on about why really the British Prime Minister was coming here to secure from President Trump. And that was concrete assurances when it comes to security guarantees in Ukraine, as they are trying to negotiate a peace deal here, because Europe has said and the British Prime Minister is willing to put British troops on the ground. But what they want is a backstop to know that the U.S. military is there as essentially a backup should there be more Russian aggression on the ground.
And he did not get those concrete assurances today, but certainly, as you saw how he answered that question about Trump, you know, saying jokingly and seriously that he wants to annex Canada what that would look like. He was trying to make sure there was no daylight between him and President Trump, as these European leaders are very much trying to insert themselves and make sure that they are kind of putting guardrails on what this negotiation between Russia and Ukraine could look like here.
COOPER: Why do you think he, the President, did not repeat the dictator remarks about Zelenskyy and sort of moved on from it. COLLINS: It was fascinating because he had two opportunities today. When he was asked about that, that one time in the Oval Office when he kind of sarcastically said he didn't remember it. And then at the press conference when a British reporter asked him if he wanted to apologize, he didn't really, you know, take that moment to respond.
[20:10:05]
And, you know, maybe the way that some people expected he would have when it comes to what this looks like. Instead, he did not repeat the sentiment. And he also said he's looking forward to having a good meeting with Zelenskyy tomorrow.
And he also said he respects him, Anderson, that is not the tone that we have been hearing from President Trump in any stretch of the imagination over the last several days, where he called him a dictator without borders. He's criticized him. He's said that his poll numbers are far lower than they actually are, and has just been outright, you know, much more hostile to Zelenskyy than he has to Putin.
It really raises the question of what this is going to look like tomorrow. When we do see President Zelenskyy in the Oval Office, if they do get this minerals deal finalized and what that looks like. And what tone he uses tomorrow when he talks to him, does he use the kind of dictator-esque view that he's been saying in recent days, or does he say, like he said today, that that he respects him and the Ukrainians for fighting for the last three years?
COOPER: Yes. Kaitlan, I appreciate it, Thanks. We'll see you for "The Source" at the top of the next hour. I know you're going to be talking to former Trump Ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland.
Our guest right now is former Trump National Security adviser, John Bolton also served as U.N. Ambassador in the George W. Bush administration.
Ambassador, it's good to have you on. What do you make of what we saw today? I mean, I don't know if it's all that complicated, if it's just, you know, whoever's in the room. This is how the President responds to, like, the last person who's in the room or if that letter had an impact. What do you make of his not calling Zelenskyy a dictator today?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Well, I think Starmer, proceeded in a in a very effective fashion by playing the card of this invitation to a second state visit. After all, to Donald Trump what is more important than another state visit to visit now the King?
So it was a good move by Starmer. There are other moves, maybe Zelenskyy tomorrow will say he's going to offer to nominate Trump to be a Nobel Peace Prize winner, that that would be a good way to get the meeting off to a start.
Trump wants meetings like this to be successful. He defines successful as making Trump look good, so he's not going to get in a fight with anybody. The fact is, he had an opportunity to say that he didn't think Zelenskyy was a dictator, and he didn't take it. And the way he answered the first question, did I say that? I mean, come on, of course he knows, he said it.
And then he said, I can't believe I said that. Well, I can't believe he said it either. Neither of which comments by him represent a repudiation of the point, if anything, to my way of looking at it, he underlined that he still thinks that.
COOPER: I want to play what President Trump said today when he was asked if he supports NATO's Article V, which obliges members of the alliance to come to each other's defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I support it. I don't think we're going to have any reason for it. I think we're going to have a very successful peace, and I think it's going to be a long lasting peace. And I think it's going to happen hopefully quickly. If it doesn't happen quickly, it may not happen at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, it's kind of remarkable what you said about that letter having an impact and a good way to start off. I mean, if it's as simple as flattery will get you everywhere, that's obviously, you know, I mean, we've seen that in the past, but it's still kind of stunning to see just kind of play out before our eyes.
Do you think there is any actual change in his thoughts about Ukraine? I mean, it seems like a lot of this goes back, and I've heard you say in the past that a lot of his feelings about Zelenskyy goes back to that perfect phone conversation he had when he tried to get Zelenskyy to open up or at least say he was going to open up some sort of investigation into the Biden family.
BOLTON: Look, Trump has said many times, including in public, that he thinks if he has good relations with a foreign head of state, then the United States itself has good relations with that country and the converse is also true.
Personal relations are important, there's no doubt about it. But when you're dealing with somebody like Vladimir Putin, who is as cold blooded as they come, he knows what he wants, and he's going to try and manipulate Trump to get it.
Trump thinks they're friends. Putin thinks he's an easy mark, and I think he's shown that over the past couple of weeks. Zelenskyy and Trump notwithstanding, Zelenskyy's best efforts over the past four or five months have never had a good relationship, going back to the perfect phone call.
So, in Trump's mind, and the way Trump looks at the world, Putin is way ahead. Now, we'll see how Zelenskyy does tomorrow. It's a very important meeting from his perspective. COOPER: You know, the President has been calling for, you know, peace, you know, getting a ceasefire. I mean, there's -- everybody wants peace, but there's peace that actually can last and be just and then there's, you know, a bad peace which can break out into a war again or is just completely unjust and rewards Russia's aggression.
Do you have any insight about what peace actually may end up looking like? I mean, do you think the U.S. would backstop a European, "peacekeeping force" and again, how that is defined, it seems a very open ended as well?
[20:15:07]
BOLTON: Well, I think it's close to a zero chance that Trump would do that. That's just contrary to everything he's been saying about the U.S.'s role in Europe for a long time. I think there's a lot of loose talk in Europe, particularly about how this is going to play out. First thing were going to have is a ceasefire. I think that's disadvantageous to Ukraine.
And then the insertion of a peacekeeping force. I think those two together lead almost inevitably to partition. If you if you have a ceasefire and then deploy a peacekeeping force and then start negotiating in Geneva or someplace, the negotiations could go on and on and on.
And the longer they go on, the more that ceasefire line becomes a de facto border.
And even the talk of peacekeepers itself is flawed. Are they peacekeepers who will fight to enforce the ceasefire, or are they going to be like U.N. observers who watch as people violate the ceasefire and just report back to headquarters?
I just think there's a lot of misimpression about how this is going to turn out, especially because let's be clear, Putin has a strategy. He started explaining it to the world in 2005. He basically wants to recreate the Russian empire. He's taken one chunk of Ukraine in 2014. He's taken another chunk over the last three years.
A ceasefire might be advantageous to him to resupply, restock, reequip, retrain his army, but that simply means that the war -- the third invasion, could take place in five or six years.
COOPER: Yes, John Bolton, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
Still to come, more on the investigation of the deaths of Gene Hackman, his wife, and including what the affidavits, report of mummification of their hands and feet can tell us about how they died or how long ago they may have died. A forensic pathologist and our chief law enforcement analyst joins us.
And later, the notorious online influencers who deny charges of rape, human trafficking and setting up a criminal gang in Romania, the Tate brothers say they are largely misunderstood why they left Romania and why are they now in America? That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:33]
COOPER: More now on our breaking news about the mysterious circumstances surrounding the death of legendary film actor Gene Hackman, his wife, and a dog that authorities have called suspicious, including the reported condition of Hackman and his wife's bodies in what the affidavit calls mummification in both hands and feet.
Joining us is our chief law enforcement intelligence analyst, John Miller, and also, Dr. Judy Melinek, forensic pathologist and author.
John, what stands out to you about this? You've seen a lot of crime scenes.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's all that it tells us and all that it refuses to tell us. A lot of questions to answer. But, you know, you have Gene Hackman, who is in the mud room off the kitchen by the back door, who appears to have taken a fall.
COOPER: A cane was found nearby --
MILLER: And a pair of sunglasses. It looks like he fell where he was and he dropped what he had. You have his wife, Betsy, in a bathroom on the other side of that floor where there are pills scattered on the counter, and a space heater that's been knocked over and a dog in a kennel or a crate that's also deceased.
And you know, it's the kind of thing where you could say murder- suicide, but it doesn't appear to have the trauma that would go with murder.
You could say a joint suicide, but those things usually come with somewhat of a ritual where people will take an overdose, get in bed together, or hold hands sitting down.
COOPER: Could also have an accident and a suicide.
MILLER: You could have an accident and somebody saying, well, I don't want to live without him. But you have all those possibilities. And as Judy will tell us, you know, there's a Latin saying in the medical examiner's office that says, you know, this is where the dead come to teach the living.
The bodies may tell us more than the scene. It's probably going to have to come together to come to one answer.
COOPER: Well, Dr. Melinek, I mean, what does their bodies apparently being partially mummified. How long does that actually take? I guess if its hands and feet, what does that actually mean?
DR. JUDY MELINEK, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST AND AUTHOR: So, the extremities can mummify relatively quickly in a hot ambient environment. It's hard without knowing how warm it was or dry it was in the house, but they've clearly been dead for several days, and I'm saying days, plural. In order to get that kind of mummification.
One of the ways of figuring this out, obviously, is from the scene investigation to find out when did they last pick up the mail? When did they last check in with relatives, phone calls, those kind of things. Because people generally will communicate with others during the course of their time.
But then you also can use other guides from the autopsy to determine the time of death, or at least estimate what we call the post mortem interval.
COOPER: I don't want to get into too many details, but when the authorities use the term mummification or mummified, does that just mean liquid has -- I mean, that it's just like skin and bones at that point or what happens?
DR. MELINEK: It means that the skin has dried. So, what's happened is it's wrinkled up and its dried, and it could be anything from kind of a leathery change all the way to the point that it's so hard that you can't even cut through it easily with a scalpel.
So sometimes it just looks a little bit leathery. And that will be called mummified as well. So, it still just gives us a ballpark --
COOPER: And that takes days --
DR. MELINEK: -- we would need to know more information about the condition of -- that can take, oh definitely, usually takes days. It's not something that happens in hours. Its multiple days, probably even weeks.
COOPER: John, I mean, the door was ajar. I guess an exterminator or a caretaker came and found it that way, and alerted the local security. There was a dog who was alive in the house and a dog also the belonged to them who was outside the house.
[20:25:17]
MILLER: Right, but the door being ajar means, you know, what Judy describes, which is they could have been there ten days or two weeks, meant that the dogs could have had access to come in and out of that doorway. They might have had access to food and to water, whereas the dog that was in the crate, assuming the crate was closed, wouldn't have had that and would have passed away during that time.
The door being ajar, of course, raises other questions. Was someone else inside the house? Had someone discovered them before? Did they leave the door ajar on purpose? Was there some kind of gas or carbon monoxide or something that made them think we need air from outside? And they opened the door before they were overcome.
So that means they've got to go in every direction. They have to eliminate everything that it could be to find out what it is. Some of that will be in the autopsy. Some of that will be in the advanced stages of the toxicology, which could take three or four weeks or longer. But a lot of that's going to be what's in their computers? What was in their mindset? Were the communications with others normal? Did they go to a physician? Did somebody get a diagnosis that was very bad that would have influenced that if one died the other would go too?
There are so many questions to answer right now from a confusing crime scene and for what it lacks.
COOPER: Yes. John Miller thank you, Dr. Judy Melinek as well. Thank you, appreciate it.
This Sunday is the Academy Awards. A source tells CNN, plans are in motion for the ceremony to pay tribute as certainly as they should to Gene Hackman, who had a truly extraordinary career. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice over): For generations of American movie fans, Gene Hackman was quite simply unforgettable.
GENE HACKMAN, AMERICAN ACTOR: I order you to place the XO under arrest on the charge of mutiny.
COOPER: At the height of his success, he was one of Hollywood's biggest stars, delivering a slew of blockbuster performances.
HACKMAN: Popeye is here --
COOPER: Popeye Doyle in "The French Connection", Lex Luthor in "Superman." A crooked lawyer in "The Firm."
HACKMAN: You think I'm talking about breaking the law?
COOPER: An uptight senator in "The Birdcage."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a man.
HACKMAN: What?
COOPER: Hackman's career spanned half a century. His big break came when Warren Beatty cast him as his brother and fellow bank robber in 1967's "Bonnie & Clyde," which earned him his first Oscar nomination.
From there, his list of credits reads like a monument to American blockbusters. The movie I was obsessed with as a kid, "The Poseidon Adventure."
HACKMAN: This little hole, as you call it, is going to get us out of here and up to Broadway. We've climbed four decks so far. We've got two more to go. This is the only way out.
COOPER: "No Way Out," "Mississippi Burning," "Crimson Tide." Hackman could play a volcanic everyman.
HACKMAN: I don't care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game. In my book, we're going to be winners. COOPER: An ice-cold president and everything in between. Among his awards two Oscars, one in 1972 for "The French Connection" and in 1993 for "Unforgiven."
HACKMAN: He's got one barrel left. When he fires that. Take out your pistols and shoot him down like a mangy scoundrel he is.
COOPER: In a rare interview in 2004, the same year he retired from acting, Hackman reflected on his career with CNN's Larry King.
HACKMAN: I never had any aspirations to be a star. I wanted to be an actor, a movie actor, a theater actor. That's all I ever wanted to do.
LARRY KING, AMERICAN AUTHOR, RADIO HOST AND TELEVISION HOST: And the camera has to like you, right?
HACKMAN: I think so.
KING: You can't make it like you.
HACKMAN: I think that the camera knows somehow or another, it knows who you are.
COOPER: Whatever role he played, audiences felt they knew who Gene Hackman was and they loved him for it.
Gene Hackman was 95 years old.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And by the way, if you have not seen "The French Connection", if you're of a certain age and you haven't seen it, or maybe you saw it a long time ago, you should re-watch it. It's an extraordinary film. And he -- there's no one quite like him.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Andrew Tate and his brother, Tristan, left Romania and landed in Florida today after Romanian prosecutors lifted travel restrictions on them. The Tate brothers, who are dual U.S. and British nationals, have been barred from leaving Romania after being arrested in 2022 and charged with rape, human trafficking, and starting an organized crime group. Randi Kaye has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREW TATE, ONLINE INFLUENCER: We live in a democratic society where it's innocent until proven guilty and I think my brother and I are largely misunderstood.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Right-wing influencer, Andrew Tate, and his brother, Tristan, moments after landing in Fort Lauderdale, Florida from Romania, telling reporters they are, quote, largely misunderstood. The brothers, along with two Romanian citizens, were arrested just after Christmas in 2022 and formally indicted months later on charges of rape, human trafficking, and setting up a criminal gang. The brothers have denied all allegations of wrongdoing.
TATE: It's about the fact that she belongs to him and the intimate parts of her body belong to him because they're in a relationship. And if she wants to sell those, he has a stake in those intimate parts of her body.
KAYE (voice-over): Besides suggesting men own women, Andrew Tate has often referred to women on social media as sex workers. Despite his comments, Andrew Tate hasn't taken a clear position on whether or not he's misogynistic.
TATE: I have nothing against women at all. I'm not sexist in any regard. I'm not misogynist either.
I will state right now that I am absolutely sexist and I'm absolutely a misogynist.
KAYE (voice-over): Romanian prosecutors alleged that Tate's seduced victims by falsely claiming they wanted a relationship or planned to marry them. Andrew Tate's controversial comments have attracted billions of views online. He was banned from Twitter in 2017 for saying women should, quote, bear responsibility for being sexually assaulted.
[20:35:09]
In 2022, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube also banned him. Elon Musk allowed Tate to return to Twitter, now X, in 2022, where Tate has more than 10 million followers. Critics and advocacy groups have voiced concern over his impact on young and vulnerable audiences and have accused him of peddling his rants about female submission and male dominance to them.
TATE: I believe the woman is given to the man. I believe she's given away by the father. I believe she belongs to the man. She belongs to the man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you think, so fundamentally right, so fundamentally, you do believe that a woman becomes a man's property.
TATE: I believe she belongs to the man in marriage. Correct.
KAYE (voice-over): So how did the Tate brothers end up in the Sunshine State? Perhaps flattery played a role.
TATE: Trump's saving the world.
KAYE (voice-over): A Romanian official told CNN that earlier this month, Trump special envoy, Rick Grenell, raised their case with Romania's foreign minister. White House officials have said there was no direct U.S. government role in this. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said he doesn't know who was behind this. GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): No, Florida is not a place where -- where -- where you're welcome with that -- with those -- that type of conduct in the air. And I don't know how it came to this. We were not involved. We were not notified. I found out through the media.
KAYE (voice-over): The first criminal case against the Tate brothers failed in December 2024 after a Bucharest court noted flaws in the indictment. In January, the court lifted the house arrest order. The pair had previously been banned from leaving Romania while the investigation continued.
A lawyer representing alleged victims of Andrew Tate in the United Kingdom told CNN that any suggestion that the Tates will now face justice in Romania is fanciful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Randi Kaye --
KAYE: And Anderson, their lawyer told CNN that the Tate brothers will return to Romania for their next court appearance that's coming up on March 24th. And Romanian prosecutors also issued a statement saying that they are required to go before the judge whenever they are summoned.
But Anderson, it is worth noting that they are facing sexual offense charges in the U.K. as well, which they deny. Four women in the U.K. have accused Andrew Tate of rape and coercive control. They released a joint statement to CNN after hearing that the brothers were leaving Romania.
And in that statement, the women said that they were in disbelief and they felt re-traumatized. They also said, Anderson, that they fear that Andrew Tate will use his newfound freedom to, quote, continue to spread a violent, misogynistic doctrine around the world, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Randi Kaye, thanks very much. And perspective now joining us is Anthony Scaramucci, who served as, briefly, as communications director in the first Trump administration. Currently, among other things, he's co-host of the The Rest is Politics U.S. podcast. Also joining us is Lift Our Voices co-founder, Gretchen Carlson. Gretchen, I mean, the -- what message does this send that these guys have come to the U.S.?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: It sends a message that misogyny is alive and well, and that they had a big role in galvanizing young men to vote for Donald Trump in November. I mean, Andrew Tate alone has 11 million followers on X. By the way, he was banned from social media for these alleged actions, but then Elon Musk put him back on X.
COOPER: In 2022.
CARLSON: So, yes. So he have -- they have the ability to -- they have the ability to change the hearts and minds of so many young men and others in our culture. I believe that they did that before the election. I believe they're a danger as far as messaging, not to mention what kind of messaging they have for women.
COOPER: Anthony, what do you make of this?
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WH COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, first of all, I want to applaud your charity, and I'm a proud donor to your charity.
CARLSON: Yes. Thank you.
SCARAMUCCI: And you've raised a tremendous amount of awareness for women, including my wife and daughter. So thank you for that.
CARLSON: Thank you.
SCARAMUCCI: And I think these guys are disgusting guys. The facts are against them. And I know people that have interacted with these guys as parents, where they're actually viscer -- eviscerating 10-year-old young girls. I mean, so I have no time in the day for these two. But Donald Trump does, because all you got to do is get in the flattering game with Donald Trump. They provided that flatter. They provided some promotion for him. And --
COOPER: He says he knew nothing about this.
SCARAMUCCI: Oh, he knew nothing about Project 2025. He's gone down the list and executed the entire thing.
CARLSON: If you were asked that --
SCARAMUCCI: We've got -- we've got a game show going on in the White House. Is he a dictator or not a dictator? The host is Donald Trump. I mean, come on.
COOPER: Why would Rick Grenell raise this --
CARLSON: Twice.
COOPER: -- with Romanian authorities? Rick Grenell is like a, I'm not sure what his exact title is, but he's been an envoy.
CARLSON: Special envoy.
COOPER: He's been an envoy down to Venezuela and other places.
CARLSON: I mean, the -- the idea that this would happen right after he had spoken to the Romanian officials, to me, is highly suspect. And if you're the president of the United States and you are asked, did you have anything to do with this? You don't say, I don't know anything about this. If you had nothing to do with this, you would say, I absolutely had nothing to do with this. I don't believe in the kind of character of these men. And just like Ron DeSantis said, thankfully, they're not allowed here. We do not welcome this in Florida.
[20:40:04]
SCARAMUCCI: I -- I don't want to speak for Rick Grenell, but let's talk about the algorithm that is Donald Trump, praise, unfettered praise, more praise, flattery, a couple of nice tweets. You look great in orange. That tint that you're wearing is fantastic. And the next thing you know, you're getting favors from the guy. And it's very dangerous.
COOPER: It is as easy as that, in your experience.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think it's as easy as that. But don't go by me. How about the intelligence personality profiles about him? What do you think the French intelligence said to Macron before he got there? What do you think Keir Starmer's people said to him?
COOPER: Lead with the letter from the king.
SCARAMUCCI: Lead with the letter from the king. You know, and -- and by the way, well, we usually do one state visit for executive. We're giving you one because we know we have to double flatter you. And this is a very important country to us. And we're going to wait you out. And hopefully you're gone after four years. And so I just want to say this one last thing. That's what it is.
And Rick Grenell knows that. And everyone around him knows that. And that's where we are. That's why we're here now.
CARLSON: Two other thoughts. Starmer, you know, thankfully, when he was sitting next to President Trump, said that it would be very important that justice would be served in these cases. So Trump had the opportunity to also say something similar. And he did not. And the other thing is, is that I -- I just can't believe that these two are going to be allowed to continue to infiltrate our young people in this country.
I mean, that we're going back in time decades by this kind of messaging. And to try and dig ourselves out of that again is --
COOPER: It also says a lot about where young men are, that they have such a following among -- among young men globally.
SCARAMUCCI: The messaging is, listen, you -- we're going to curve the law for you. We're going to provide space for you to do wrongdoing on our behalf. That's the message. OK. And it's a very damning message for the society. And these guys are no good. And any parent would know how bad these guys are. And they would reject their acts but not Donald Trump.
COOPER: Anthony Scaramucci, appreciate it, Gretchen Carlson as well. Thank you so much.
Coming up next, the release of the Epstein files. What's in them? And did they actually live up to the hype in the right wing media sphere?
Also ahead, more breaking news. More on Zelenskyy's trip to Washington and President Trump's promise of a very big deal on access to rare earth minerals. We'll take you to a mine in Ukraine and new reporting on the widespread doubts over those resources.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:50]
COOPER: More breaking news this time on the release of the files on convicted pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein, which Attorney General Pam Bondi previewed just yesterday on "Fox."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Breaking news right now, you're going to see some Epstein information being released by my office. A lot of flight logs, a lot of names, a lot -- a lot of information. But it's -- it's pretty sick what that man did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, today, the White House released them. Initially, it was just to a visiting group of pro-Trump media influencers who even got to meet the President. That's a photo of some of them posing with binders labeled the Epstein files phase one. Then around 6:30 p.m., the documents were actually posted online.
And it seems much of the material was already publicly known. Late this afternoon, Attorney General Bondi accused the FBI of withholding thousands of additional documents in a letter addressed to Director Kash Patel. I'm joined now by Kara Scannell. So is there anything new in these documents that's -- that's been released?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, nothing new. I mean, there's a couple of different categories. One are the flight logs of who was on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. That all came out several years ago during the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell, his former girlfriend who was convicted of the sex trafficking scheme. So all of that we've seen before. All the names we've seen before. Also was the -- his black book, this, you know, contact list --
COOPER: Which was his address book.
SCANNELL: Which was his address book which has been public on the Internet for years. You know, I think "The Gothamist" had first published it and it has been out there for a long time. They have now officially published the document themselves.
COOPER: Because online, there is a whole ecosphere of QAnon and others who have put out a lot of fake lists, flight lists. I believe I am on one of the fake flight lists that is out there online because I get weird DMs from people accusing me of being on a flight, which obviously is absurd. None of that, I mean, that's all just fake in the -- in the Internet.
SCANNELL: Yes, I mean, so it will disprove some of those documents if anyone is actually going to comb through them one by one. And of course, during the Maxwell trial, not everyone would have had access to the flight logs to look at them themselves, the official documents. I mean, we obviously saw them. We may have posted some of them. But this is now official for anyone if they want to go. Because like you said, there's a lot of interest in this. And, you know, even one of these influencers was on X today reading off the names and people were asking her questions and she was checking names. So there's certainly this huge universe of people that are still very interested in this story.
COOPER: It's also interesting that Pam Bondi would yesterday preview this as if there was some sort of revelation just last night, in fact, on "Fox." And then today after it's released and it's sort of like, well, wait a minute, actually there's not anything new here. Then suddenly say, oh, well, the FBI has been withholding -- is withholding stuff.
SCANNELL: Right. In her letter to Kash Patel, she says that before he took this, before he be -- was sworn in and got the job, that she had been surprised to learn that she did not get all of the documents and suggested that it was the New York office where this investigation into both Epstein and Maxwell was conducted, that they were withholding documents.
[20:50:01]
We don't know exactly what communications there were made to that office. Obviously they have some of the documents from that office because it was from their trial that they were able to obtain these exhibits, particularly of the flight logs. So we know that they've gotten some material from them.
They didn't provide any additional clarity on what communications there were. Maybe there were issues of why they didn't turn over other information. But we do know from covering the trial, and this was official government records they obtained through grand jury subpoenas, there are a number of photographs of Maxwell and Epstein and some other well-known people.
All of that came out during the trial. None of those people were accused in the trial of being part of the sex trafficking. I mean, that was pretty thoroughly questioned by some of the witnesses, including some of the victims who did testify.
COOPER: And just who were these social media influencers who get the initial look at the documents?
SCANNELL: I mean, I -- I don't know who some of them are. It's a conservative world in which they operate, 15 of them, as you saw from the video and the photos, they were at the White House. They had these official binders. Some of them were wearing MAGA hats. And then they had a heads up and a head start in looking at this.
You know, it sort of interesting. We didn't get them the public or the rest of the mainstream media, but certainly something in Trump's administration showing -- showing that they want to control how some of this information is coming out with their pool developments that they're going to decide who's in the pool.
COOPER: Yes. Kara Scannell, thank you, as always. Appreciate it.
More breaking news ahead of tomorrow's White House visit by Ukraine's president, specifically the latest on the minerals deal the two countries have been hammering at.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:12]
COOPER: More breaking news. As we mentioned earlier, President Trump will welcome Ukraine's President Zelenskyy to the White House tomorrow. The two leaders appear to be reaching a deal that would allow American access to Ukraine's untapped mineral riches. But tonight, several U.S. officials and experts are warning that there's no clear picture precisely what resources Ukraine actually has. And they warned that what is known is based on decades old Soviet era mapping. President Trump didn't talk about that today. Here's what he told reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's going to be great for Ukraine. We're going to be at the site and we'll be -- we'll be digging. We'll be dig, dig, digging, dig we must.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Here's CNN's Nick Paton Walsh in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: We very much need rare earth. They have great rare earth.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice- over): A moonshot for Ukraine's survival. Talking peace suddenly means talking about places like here, this lunar landscape. A titanium mine struggling under the Russian bombardment of Ukraine's power grid, sometimes with only three hours power a day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through audio translation): Now we don't know our work will go on even tomorrow. Because every day we see how Ukraine's energy system is being destroyed. Our company is now very unstable and this leads to a very high net cost of our products.
WALSH: Half a trillion dollars. That was the sum that President Trump initially thought Ukraine might be able to pay back to the United States, in his words. And here you're going to sense the challenge, really, because this place, yes, potential is certainly there, but they say they desperately need investment. These machines are so old. And, yes, so they say they would welcome American money.
WALSH (voice-over): The pressure to get money out of the ground is enormous, as are the questions as to whether the astronomical sums Trump thinks are here can match the money to be made under this sprawling sea of unknown potential. TRUMP: And who knows what rare earth is worth, you know, but at least it's something. And who knows what it's worth? Who knows if they even have it?
WALSH (voice-over): It was at first Ukraine's idea, President Zelenskyy selling their mineral wealth in November, perhaps too successfully as part of a victory plan for more aid, showing reporters maps here. They claim 7 percent global production of titanium. Lithium isn't mined yet, but they say they've 3 percent global reserves. They say they're in the top five of graphite reserves and have some actual rare earth metals.
The initial framework deal doesn't specify what it covers, mentioning only relevant resource assets that will be further described in another agreement. Yet the White House has been specific about some resources.
MIKE WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: There's a foundry that processes aluminum in Ukraine. It's -- it's been damaged. It's not at its current capacity. If that is restored, it would account for America's entire imports of aluminum for an entire year.
WALSH (voice-over): Waltz is probably referring to here, an aluminium plant in Zaporizhzhia, mothballed when filmed here a decade ago, still struggling and hit by a missile during the war.
The U.S., perhaps a little too eager to take, Ukraine with no choice but to give in a hugely complex deal that may get messier still when it runs into the cold, hard ground truth of where Ukraine is at today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH: Anderson, the draft framework deal we saw gives no specifics at all about what parts of Ukraine's vast natural resources will indeed be involved in this deal that's become so key to the future of Ukraine. It will enable, though, both presidents to leap over this obstacle.
Still, though, there are senior Ukrainian officials who admit that the geological information they're working on dates back to 1946 or 1960. Huge damage done to Ukraine's energy grid, its infrastructure, making mining, resource extraction exceptionally complex. And so many questions as to exactly what this means in the future, if indeed there is a peace that enables that kind of production to take off. Anderson?
[21:00:23]
COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much. That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
