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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Schumer Says He Will Vote Yes to Advance House GOP Funding Bill; DOGE Obscures Details on Website, Makes Errors Harder to Find; Putin Signals Openness to Ceasefire but Still has "Reservations". Trump Admin. Guts Pollution And Climate Rules In Rapid-Fire Deregulation; How Erik Prince Found Himself Back Inside Trump's Orbit; Man Allegedly Held Captive By Stepmother For More Than 20 Years Set Fire To Escape From Their Home. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 13, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That they separate me from my son.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We also spoke to Venezuelan Americans who voted for President Donald Trump, who say that they're holding out hope for this ongoing litigation, hoping that that is what blocks the revoking of these deportation protections. And if not that, then some other solution.
But what was clear from every conversation we had is that many Venezuelans say they can't return to Venezuela because they are fleeing political persecution with one person telling us, "We don't have a place to go back to" -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Priscilla, thank you very much. Yet another incredible report from Priscilla, and thanks so much to all of you for being with us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, guess who else is warning about tariffs? Tesla owned by Elon Musk. The latest on a newly discovered letter from the company as a key market index sinks even further.
Also tonight, Putin says he has reservations about a ceasefire deal. We'll tell you what President Trump said about that. And later, an in- depth look at what the EPA administrator calls the largest deregulatory announcement in U.S. history and the possible health concerns for red and blue states alike.
Good evening, we start with breaking news. At this hour, it looks as though a government shutdown, which was set to occur about 28 hours from now, may be averted. Senate Republicans needed at least eight Democrats to join them to pass the House stop GOP funding bill, known as a C.R. or Continuing Resolution.
Democrats had privately debated whether to take a more confrontational approach, but tonight, Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer, in a speech on the Senate floor, told his colleagues he's going to vote for the deal, which may give Republicans enough votes to avert a shutdown. We'll keep you advised on any developments over the course of this next hour.
Government shutdowns typically only have a short-term effect on the economy and markets, but this one comes as a burgeoning tariff war has even Elon Musk's Tesla, the company not Musk himself, warning about their negative impact.
CNN has learned that on Tuesday, the company, Tesla sent a letter to the U.S. trade representative. It warned that tariffs could harm the company, "U.S. exporters are inherently exposed to disproportionate impacts when other countries respond to U.S. trade actions."
"For example, past trade actions by the United States have resulted in immediate reactions by the targeted countries, including increased tariffs on electric vehicles imported into those countries."
What's even more startling about that letter is that it wasn't signed by anyone. Certainly not Elon Musk or any executive.
Interesting side note the day that letter from Tesla was sent, Tuesday was the same day as the Tesla sales event on the White House South Lawn, where the President of the United States stood beside his top donor and urged Americans to buy Teslas.
Sales of Teslas have fallen across much of the world due to factors including increased competition, but also anger at Musk and his association with Trump, as well as far right elements in other countries.
Today, President Trump escalated the tariff fight with the European Union, threatening to levy 200 percent tariffs on French wine and alcohol from the E.U. after it threatened tariffs on products including American whiskey. Those tariffs were a response to the steel and aluminum tariffs that went into effect yesterday, something Mr. Trump said today would benefit American consumers and businesses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Many American small business owners say they are concerned that these tariffs are going to hurt them. What's your message to them?
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They're going to be so much richer than they are right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mr. Trump has repeatedly promised blue skies ahead, but today all the markets saw were red. In fact, for a second day, investors overlooked a favorable report on inflation. The NASDAQ was down almost two percentage points, the Dow down 1.3 percent and the S&P a drop of almost 1.4 percent. Put it in correction territory, exactly one week after the NASDAQ. Now correction is when a market index declines 10 percent from a recent high. And in the S&P's case, that was less than a month ago on February 19th, the day President Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're on the verge of soaring markets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Those soaring markets have mostly declined since that date. And the President today gave no indication he was willing to give up the fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Any chances that you will bend on the tariffs on aluminum and the ones that are planned for April 2nd?
TRUMP: No.
REPORTER: You are not going to change your mind.
TRUMP: No, I'm not. Look, we've been ripped off for years and were not going to be ripped off anymore. No, I'm not going to bend at all on aluminum or steel or cars. We're not going to bend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: During his meeting with the NATO Secretary General, The President bashed Canada again as useless, but once again promised blue skies ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We don't need their lumber. We don't need their energy. We have more than they do. We don't need anything. We don't need their cars. I'd much rather make the cars here. And there's not a thing that we need. Now, there'll be a little disruption, but it won't be very long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, all of this comes as the administration lost a key court case today in its effort to reduce the size of the federal workforce. A federal judge ruled that at least six agencies, including Defense, Treasury and Veterans Affairs, hire back probationary staff who were fired.
The judge called the effort by the administration a sham, and that the administrations reasoning was a gimmick, in his words. Late tonight, the administration says it will appeal the decision. Today is also the deadline for federal agencies to submit the first phase of their plans to reduce their workforces.
A memo was issued today with guidance that included eliminating positions and reducing federal property. I want to start with anchor and chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. What else is the White House saying about that court ruling?
[20:05:31]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this court ruling was really significant, Anderson. Obviously, there's been a lot of back and forth since the President has tried to reshape the federal government, really by reducing a large part of the workforce. And the judge's ruling is essentially a really significant roadblock in the effort by the Trump White House to do that very quickly.
He is saying that this is an order, that it is effective immediately, that they have to rehire the people from these agencies, including the Defense Department, Veterans Affairs, and they have to do so immediately. And he said his order actually might extend to other agencies in the future. And essentially, he was blasting the rationale for why all of these employees were fired, saying that the Office of Personnel Management can't just go out and send this letter saying that it's all based on poor performance.
He actually kind of excoriated the administration over that, specifically saying that it was a sham to say that it was all just poor performance when -- as he was arguing, they were just trying to get around statutory requirements here.
And so, were seeing the White House respond tonight saying, yes, the Justice Department is going to appeal this decision by the judge. Their rationale is kind of laid out in a statement from the press secretary, who said that "A single judge attempting to unconstitutionally seize the power of hiring and firing from the Executive Branch."
She says, "The President has the authority to exercise this power and singular district court judges cannot abuse the power of the entire judiciary to thwart his agenda." She wrote, "If a federal district judge, wants to have the executive powers, they can try and run for President themselves."
Of course, it's a real question of what this is going to look like, and it's the rationale for firing all of these employees that is going to be ultimately the most tested here.
COOPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks very much. We just mentioned one of the legal setbacks for the President's attempt to cut the federal workforce. There's also new polling that suggests many people are not happy with what they're seeing from DOGE, 54 percent of voters believe that Musk and DOGE are actually hurting the country. That's according to a new Quinnipiac Poll, 40 percent say it's helping.
Now, part of the issue is a lack of transparency. Republicans prevented Musk from having to testify to the House Ways and Means Committee, and yesterday, Democratic Congressman John Larson was not having it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JOHN LARSON (D-CT): Where is Elon Musk? I'm sure he's a genius and is a very credible person because of the wealth he's accumulated. But that does not put him above the law or the responsibility to come before this committee, in this Congress. If he's so great, if these plans and all the fraud and abuse that he found are so imminent, why isn't he here explaining it?
You know why? Because he's out to privatize Social Security. He's been on television the last couple of days talking exactly about Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and what he intends to do, privatize it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, Elon Musk has promised total transparency when it comes to the examples of waste, fraud and abuse that DOGE has allegedly been uncovering.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: So, I think when people criticize, say, what DOGE is doing, we say, well, which part specifically because we put all of the actions of the DOGE team on the DOGE.gov website and on the DOGE handle on X.
So, we post the receipts. So it's like -- this action has been taken, this action has been taken. So, what when we get criticism we say like of what? Which line do you disagree with. Like, which cut --which cost saving do you disagree with. And then people usually can't think of any, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Ahh, that's not the case. It's just simply not the case that people can't think of any. "The New York Times" and others have been doing remarkable reporting on the so-called DOGE wall of receipts, which is what he's talking about. The line by line items documenting numerous instances of mistakes or deceptions on the website, stuff that just cuts that were not true.
Last month, DOGE quietly deleted the five biggest spending cuts from the original so-called wall of receipts. After "The Times'" David Fahrenthold and others pointed out the they were inaccurate.
In some cases, the group took credit for canceling contracts that had been ended years earlier under prior administrations and others, they overstated savings, claiming an $8 billion savings instead of an $8 million savings.
Whether innocent errors or deceptions, the mistakes were taken down, by the way, with no word on how they occurred or why. Now, DOGE is making fact checking it even harder, apparently, "The New York Times" is reporting that DOGE has begun removing identifying details about the cuts that they are taking credit for which they used to post, which made it possible to actually track what those contracts were. David Fahrenthold is on the byline of the story with "The New York Times." He joins me now, along with former federal prosecutor Elie Honig. So, David, I mean, you and I have talked about this now for quite a while. Talk about what now DOGE is doing to make the way it reports this data on its website more difficult for you and your colleagues and others to actually track?
[20:10:37]
DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": What they've started doing is posting claims about things they've cut. In this case, grant payments. They cut grants that were going to go to some nonprofits. But unlike in the past, they don't tell you the I.D. number of the grant. They don't tell you the people that were supposed to receive it. They don't tell you anything other than, here's the agency that gave it, here's how much we saved by cutting it.
That's not enough to fact check it. Basically, that's just them putting a number out into the world that there's no way to go back and verify. So, the transparency that they had been doing before, which allowed us to fact check and find all those errors you were talking about that's gone. These are just uncheckable numbers.
COOPER: And I just want to be clear. When you previously found the errors, the $8 billion, which was really $8 million, did they apologize? Did they explain how that happened? Did they point out that, oh, were going to remove this now, or was this just kind of done, you know, at night no one's looking, suddenly it just disappears like somebody in Charlie Brown's spelling bee who gets it wrong.
FAHRENTHOLD: In almost every case, they didn't explain why it was deleted. It just vanished. In some cases, the errors went away and then came back. The largest item on their list of canceled contracts is wrong. Now it's one that they deleted and then put back, but in most cases they would just disappear and never say why do they get it wrong? Or talk about maybe what they'd be doing differently to try to avoid errors like this in the future?
COOPER: Elie, let me ask you about this court case, this federal judge saying these cuts are not right -- the way these probationary employees were fired. Will that last? I mean, what's the next step?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it will be appealed, but this is just the latest in a series of colossal legal failures by the Trump administration, by Elon Musk, and by DOGE. And what's so interesting here is they can do most of what they want to do. They can actually fire most of the officials and employees they want to fire, if they only follow the laws.
Today's case is a perfect example. The law says you can actually fire these probationary employees, these new federal employees, if you go through this reduction in force administrative process or if you can show they did a bad job. The Trump administration flat out ignored those laws, instead sent an e-mail to all of them, thousands of people saying you did a bad job, you're fired. And that's why the judge was so furious today. He lashed out because this is just a flagrant violation of the laws. That's why they've been losing so many of these cases. And I expect that to continue until they start actually reading the law.
COOPER: And David, is it clear to you, I mean, does the DOGE receipts website, is it -- are all the details now gone? Is it all just this -- Oh, you know, X number of dollars from a canceled contract with one agency or does it have any deals? I mean, how do you go about now trying to fact check this?
FAHRENTHOLD: There's two main categories on the site. One is canceled contracts and one is canceled grants. The canceled contracts, those still have the identifying details. But the canceled grants, which are now they're saying $15 billion worth of savings. There's more than 7,000 entries. All of those lack the details necessary to check them.
We were able to check a few because they left the identifying information in the code of their website briefly, but now even that's gone. So, they're all basically anonymous.
COOPER: So, that's interesting. So, I mean, did they realize that they had left that in their code and then removed it?
FAHRENTHOLD: They did, and they said that was for security purposes. So, before they deleted it, we figured out that the largest cut on the list of grants is also wrong. It says its $1.75 billion and the real number is zero. So, the largest grant and the largest contract on their site right now are both wrong.
COOPER: How is it possible that they could claim a 1.7 billion, you said, and its actually zero.
FAHRENTHOLD: It's 1.75, yes.
COOPER: How is that possible?
FAHRENTHOLD: Well, they said we canceled this grant from USAID to this nonprofit that does vaccine work in the developing world. And the nonprofits said, well, that's wrong twice, A the grant wasn't canceled. And B, the money that we were expecting has already been paid. There's no more money to cut. So it's not $1.75 billion. Even if you cut it, the savings would be nothing. Zero.
COOPER: Elie, on the court case, where does it go next? Where does it go next? And will this end up in the Supreme Court?
HONIG: Well, it will definitely be appealed and I think one or more of these DOGE cases will end up in the Supreme Court. It's important to keep in mind what the Trump administration is doing here. They're not playing for the district court, the trial court.
They've lost most of those cases. What they are ultimately aiming to do is get these cases to the Supreme Court and get rulings from the Supreme Court, which they might get, that these laws that Congress passed that limit the way the President can fire employees or manage the Executive Branch, they are looking for a ruling that those laws are unconstitutional because they violate the separation of powers.
I think they have a chance to actually get that ruling. When you look at the composition of this court, when you look at the conservative lean and executive power has long been a favorite of the of the conservative movement. So, we're months away from that, but I think that's ultimately the long play here.
They want to back Congress off, and they want the President to be able to do whatever he wants with no limitation within the Executive Branch.
[20:15:36]
COOPER: David, has Elon Musk ever addressed directly, you know, all the things you've found? I mean, obviously, I assume you've probably asked him for an interview. It doesn't seem like that's happening.
FAHRENTHOLD: No, we've reached out to DOGE directly for every one of these stories, and they've never written back.
COOPER: They've never they've never responded?
FAHRENTHOLD: The White House responds sometimes on their behalf, but we've never heard from any of the people. Everybody knows the names of these folks that are actually running DOGE and seeming to make these decisions. They've never responded. We even used X to reach out to them and they don't respond.
But so, Musk has never really said why they keep getting these things wrong. Instead, he says, what you showed in the intro, which is like, it's so transparent if you, you know, people look at this and they're amazed, basically hyping this up as this incredibly transparent way to see what they're doing and not conceding how wrong it is or how untransparent it's getting.
COOPER: David Fahrenthold, as always, thank you so much. Elie Honig as well, thank you. Appreciate it.
Still to come, Vladimir Putin says he has reservations, those were his words, about a ceasefire deal after Ukraine agreed to its terms. We'll look at what that may mean in terms of the war and President Trump's plans for a peace deal.
Also tonight, stunning cuts and changes to the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency. We will get into the details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:17]
COOPER: As you may know, Ukraine agreed to a U.S. proposed 30-day ceasefire with Russia earlier this week and the world has been waiting to hear if Russia would as well. Well, now Russian President Vladimir Putin has finally broken his silence. Fred Pleitgen has details from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just hours after visiting his generals near the front lines in the Kursk Region, Russian leader Vladimir Putin back in Moscow, pouring cold water on President Trump's initiative for an immediate ceasefire with Ukraine.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): I would like to begin with words of gratitude to the U.S. President, Mr. Trump, for paying so much attention to the settlement in Ukraine.
We agree with the proposals to end hostilities, but we proceed from the fact that this end should be such that it would lead to a long- term peace and eliminate the root causes of this crisis.
PLEITGEN (voice over): In other words, the Russians want to hammer out a full peace deal before ending the fighting, even as the Trump administration says the shooting should stop immediately.
The U.S. President had hoped Putin would fully endorse his proposal.
TRUMP: Now, we're going to see whether or not Russia is there, and if they're not, it will be a very disappointing moment for the world.
PLEITGEN (voice over): This, as Russian forces say, they've been making major gains in the Kursk Region, Ukraine's last small foothold on Russian territory.
Putin's soldiers are now patrolling the streets in small towns leveled by the battles.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN (voice over): "There was fierce fighting here," this soldier says, "Ukrainian troops brought in heavy equipment and shot at the building point blank. But the buildings are strong, the walls are strong, so the defense held up."
Putin went on to say he has concerns that the Ukrainians will use a ceasefire to regroup and rearm if Moscow's troops take their foot off the gas now.
PUTIN (through translator): So, these 30 days will be used how? So, that forced mobilization continues in Ukraine? So that weapons are delivered there? So that units undergo training? Or if nothing of such sort will happen, then the question arises, how will the issue of control and verification be resolved? And how will we be guaranteed that nothing like this will happen?
PLEITGEN (voice over): While the Ukrainians have fully signed off on the ceasefire proposal and say they're willing to implement it immediately, the Russians say they see little benefit in freezing the fighting, although Putin says he, too wants to see the war come to an end. PUTIN (through translator): I think that we need to talk about this with our American colleagues, partners, maybe call President Trump and discuss it with him. But the idea itself, to end this conflict by peaceful means is supported by us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (on camera): Now, Anderson, of course, the Russians want favorable conditions for themselves. They've already said they don't want to give back any of the territory that they've taken from Ukraine. And they also don't want to see any NATO soldiers on the ground in Ukraine, either.
But one Russian lawmaker has come out and said that the Trump administration needs to understand that any agreement would be on Moscow's terms and not on Washington's -- Anderson.
COOPER: Fred Pleitgen, reporting from Moscow. Thanks.
Tonight, in his address, the people of Ukraine and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called Vladimir Putin's response to the ceasefire proposal, "very predictable, very manipulative."
He claimed the Russian leader is dragging out negotiations and is afraid to tell President Trump that he wants the war to continue.
Joining us now is CNN senior military analyst and admiral James Stavridis, a former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and a partner at The Carlyle Group, a global investment firm.
Admiral, appreciate you being with us. Do you see anything or hear anything in Putin's response that makes you think he's serious about a ceasefire?
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: Not really. I mean, if you put a spectrum on this, Anderson, that goes from -- yes, great idea, let's have a ceasefire tonight, at the other end -- hell no, there's never going to be a ceasefire until I conquer Ukraine.
I guess this is kind of in the middle and that's not the worst place it could have landed. I'd call this "rope-a-dope." This is just Putin being Putin, which is to say he's going to seek to impose his conditions.
He's going to want, as Fred told us, no NATO membership. He's going to want complete sovereignty over the territory he's conquered. He's going to want new elections in Ukraine so he can try and manipulate a Moscow puppet in place and ultimately, he's going to seek absolute sovereignty over those territories.
So, none of this should surprise us. I think it tells us it's going to be tough negotiations ahead.
[20:25:48]
COOPER: I mean, it was probably a wise move for Ukraine to agree, given the reality of the situation with the Trump administration, for Ukraine to agree to this 30-day ceasefire.
It's also probably a smart move for Vladimir Putin to do this, given the sympathy or the interest that President Trump clearly has in developing a relationship with Vladimir Putin, that perhaps this administration is amenable to further discussions to get to a cease fire?
STAVRIDIS: Yes, you've got it exactly right, Anderson. The question now becomes that Ukraine has agreed to step forward and put their mineral deal and their tactical situation behind the idea of a ceasefire. Putin is kind of doing this "rope-a-dope" thing. So the question becomes, what are the levers that the United States can use to try and move Putin toward agreeing a cease fire and eventually a negotiation?
The U.S. is not without various means we can use. One would be increased sanctions, although they're already under very significant sanctions. A better one, in my view, provide more weapons systems, more advanced intelligence, more cyber capability to the Ukrainians. A third thing could be us putting pressure on Iran and North Korea, both of whom are very supportive here.
So, we've got cards to play. I think the key for the Trump administration at this point, do it off stage, do it kind of sotto voce, quietly try and influence Putin. They've moved Ukraine toward the ceasefire, now they've got to move Putin toward the cease fire. That's going to be a harder task.
COOPER: You know, many NATO countries in Europe have announced new initiatives to rearm, strengthen their defense posture. Do you think Europe can reach a point where they could deter future Russian aggression even if the United States pulls back?
I absolutely do, and these numbers may or may not surprise viewers, but Europe has a population -- Western Europe, our Europe, if you will, has a population of 450 million, much larger than the United States. Their economy is a shade smaller than ours, 22 percent of the world's GDP. The U.S. is 25 percent. But that's a lot of capability and here's one that really surprises people, Anderson.
The collective European defense budget, when you add it all up and put it together, is close to $500 billion, about half of ours. That's bigger than China. Much bigger than Russia. Europe has the capacity, the capability. The question is, can they find the unity and the will to do so without the United States driving the train?
COOPER: Admiral James Stavridis, I really appreciate it. Thank you, really fascinating.
Coming up, how some regulations at the EPA are designed to help poor and minority communities fight pollution, are being gutted in the name of Trump's anti-DEI policies. And you may remember, Erik Prince is the former head of the security firm Blackwater, he is back and having influence in the Trump administration. We'll take a look at that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:33:45]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, man, I've gotten a lot of coverage yesterday, but the Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, issued sweeping climate and environmental rollbacks, 31 separate actions in a span of two hours. EPA's new administrator, Lee Zeldin, called it, quote, "The largest deregulatory announcement in U.S. history".
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
LEE ZELDIN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: EPA will be reconsidering many suffocating rules that restrict nearly every sector of our economy and cost Americans trillions of dollars.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Now, suffocating is an interesting turn of phrase there. EPA's stated mission is to, and I quote, "protect human health and the environment". Now, nowhere in that 2 minute and 17-second video did either come up. They did, I want to point out and be fair, in an opinion piece that Zeldin wrote for the Wall Street Journal, which we'll get to in a moment.
But I do want to just take a look at some of the changes made yesterday. The EPA immediately closed every single one of its offices around the country that deals with what's known as environmental justice. That's 11 offices in all that were focused on monitoring, combating higher levels of pollution in poor and minority communities.
Industrial plants are not usually built in or near wealthy communities. They're disproportionately located near poor ones, and people who live in those communities can often have higher levels of asthma, heart disease, other health issues.
[20:35:01]
The Division of Environmental Justice focused on areas like Louisiana's so-called Cancer Alley, which is an 85-mile stretch between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, where more than 150 chemical plants and oil refineries were built and where there have been some of the highest cancer rates in America.
So why were all 11 of these offices just closed? To align with the Trump administration DEI policies, and the -- to end the EPA administrator, what he now calls, forced discrimination programs. The gutting of these regulations will also impact coal-fired power plants, many of which are in states that voted overwhelmingly for President Trump.
According to Zeldin, the EPA is, in his words, reconsidering wastewater regulations for the power plants and will, quote, "update coal ash regulations". Now, while Zeldin doesn't go into specifics about what that may mean, we do know that just three years ago, the EPA began forcing coal-fired power plants to clean up their -- what's called coal ash waste, which long-term exposure can cause liver damage, kidney damage, cardiac arrhythmia, and a whole bunch of cancers.
This, when the EPA started this effort, there were around 500 unlined coal ash ponds in the U.S. And when a pond is unlined, those potentially hazardous or deadly chemicals can seep into the groundwater, poisoning it. According to a leading environmental group, every single state that Trump won in the 2024 election except Idaho has at least one ash pond within its borders.
Those are just a few of the 31 regulations being dismantled, to which one group of scientists said, and will, quote, "leave the nation sicker and our air, water, and soil dangerously contaminated".
Now, Administrator Zeldin says in the Wall Street Journal piece, this, and I'm quoting, "This isn't about abandoning environmental protection, it's about achieving it through innovation and not strangulation".
For more, I'm joined by Christine Todd Whitman. She was the Republican governor of New Jersey from 1994 to 2001 and was EPA administrator during George W. Bush's first term from 2001 to 2003.
Governor Whitman, I appreciate you being with us. The very first EPA administrator under President Nixon, I want to point out, said that the EPA's sole mission was to, quote, "protect and enhance the environment". Do you believe that is still the mission of this EPA right now?
CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, FORMER EPA ADMINISTRATOR: No, clearly not. It's -- anyway, it's good to be with you, Anderson. Sorry, but no, it's not. If there's an endangerment finding to be made anywhere, it's this administration because they are seriously endangering the life and health of every American.
It's really outrageous what's happening because, as you well know, these regulations were based on science and are there to protect people because that's the simple mission of the agency. And it's one of those things where you want to say you've got to take these seriously. How can you not when you have the proof, as you laid out so well, of the Cancer Alley, of what we see in those sludge ponds?
There is mercury. There's arsenic. There are all kinds of things that get into the water. And people are drinking that. And that's inhibiting their development and children particularly. And when you mentioned environmental justice, it's a tragedy to close those offices because those communities didn't have the political clout to push back against the location of those factories. And now they've already paid a huge price. And now it's just going to get worse.
COOPER: So on the environmental justice thing, I mean, there are probably some people watching this who may roll their eyes and say, oh, come on, is that really a thing? Isn't that just some sort of liberal hand wringing?
I mean, is -- it seems like this administration is saying there is no such thing as environmental injustice, that it's not a problem that these plants are usually placed, you know, closer to poor or minority communities as opposed to in a wealthy neighborhood or, you know, an economically advantaged one. Is it real?
WHITMAN: No, it's goes from -- it's real. It's very real because -- just look at a map and look at where those factories are located and look at the economic wealth of the communities that surround them. I mean, it's a fact.
And if you look at the rate of cancer, you look at the rate of asthma, we don't know what causes asthma, but we do know what can trigger an attack and what can exacerbate an attack. And that's what they call PM 2.5. It's air pollution.
And that's one of the largest causes of missed school days by children. And we already know, having come back from the COVID, what happens when a kid misses school and misses school, not to mention what they feel like when they are having an asthma attack.
It's like a fish out of water. They can't get their breath. These are very real problems that are going to occur and going to get worse because of what this administration is doing.
COOPER: I want to read another part of Administrator Lee Zeldin's op- ed in the Wall Street Journal. He said, "Critics may claim that these changes signal a retreat from environmental protection. Nothing could be further from the truth under the Trump administration. The EPA's core mission remains safeguarding human health and the environment".
[20:40:06]
He said, also, "It's not abandoning environmental protection. It's about achieving it through innovation and not strangulation". Is it -- if left up to their own devices, would some of these companies, some of these corporations, you know, are they going to be policing themselves here?
WHITMAN: No, no. I mean, that's the problem. They have also let go most of the enforcement. I mean, there is an enforcement staff at EPA that is watching this, not just in environmental justice communities, but throughout the country, to make sure that the utilities and plants are meeting their requirements under the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act and the Safe Drinking Water Act. That's what they're about.
And when you lose those people, even though it's going to take years to actually undo regulations, because regulations are based on scientific data that has led to the conclusions that you need a regulation here, and so you can't just roll them back. You have to provide other scientific data to say this is no longer needed.
But when you don't have the enforcement, the companies are going to go right ahead doing what they've been doing, because that makes more money for them. That's what this is all about. It's all about money for, frankly, the very wealthy who run these -- a lot of these companies and are benefiting from this. They love it.
But let me just give you one example, though, about how this gets distorted. At the beginning of the Bush administration, if you remember, there was a time of rolling brownouts in California, and I was part of the Energy Task Force.
And the very first day of the meeting of the Energy Task Force, it was very clear that EPA was being blamed for it. It was EPA regulations that were holding up the utilities bringing new power on. So I said immediately, give me the list of all those permits that are being held up, and I'll put them to the top and make sure they go through the process. But do it -- we'll expedite.
They didn't come up with one. It wasn't about EPA regulation, it was about an economic decision by the utilities.
COOPER: You are a Republican, right? Because, I mean --
WHITMAN: I'm an Independent.
COOPER: You're an Independent. You're --
WHITMAN: Yes, I'm a registered Independent now. I've been a Republican all my life. My parents, grandparents grew up in the party. But no, this is not my Republican Party anymore.
COOPER: Christine Todd Whitman, it's really interesting to talk to you --
WHITMAN: I'm a --
COOPER: I'm sorry, go ahead.
WHITMAN: I was just going to say I'm a forwardist now, the Forward Party --
COOPER: A Forward.
WHITMAN: -- which is a third party. Andrew Yang and I are co-founders with a fellow called Michael Willner. And the Forward Party is a different way of -- we're freeing up our elected representatives who are associated with us to vote the way their conscience and the way their constituents want to have them vote.
COOPER: But you don't see this as a Republican --
WHITMAN: And not what party tell what we have to do.
COOPER: You don't see the environment and this -- the need for oversight as a Republican or Democratic issue.
WHITMAN: No, it's a human issue. It's a human health issue, pure and simple. It's about my seven grandchildren, but it's also about me and you, all of our children and grandchildren and our parents.
COOPER: Christine Todd Whitman, I appreciate you being on. Thank you.
WHITMAN: My pleasure.
COOPER: Coming up next, serious legal questions now that co-founder of the military contractor Blackwater is helping President Trump in his immigration crackdown. A detailed look at Erik Prince and how he's aiding the president.
And stunning allegations by a Connecticut man of captivity, abuse and starvation over decades at the hands of his stepmother. Allegations she denies how incredible action he took to escape the home ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:43]
COOPER: Tonight, Erik Prince, the former CEO of the security contracting firm Blackwater, is back in the news and it seems in the good graces of the second Trump administration. CNN's Phil Mattingly has details.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): On February 3rd, after taking in the striking views of El Salvador's volcanic Lake Coatepeque --
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: No country has ever made an offer of friendship such as this.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): -- Secretary of State Marco Rubio was presented with an even more striking offer from El Salvador's President Nayib Bukele.
RUBIO: He has agreed to accept for deportation any illegal alien in the United States who is a criminal. He has offered to house in his jails dangerous American criminals in custody in our country, including those of U.S. citizenship and legal residence.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Deporting American citizens into foreign prisons, legally tenuous as it may be, originated in part from this man.
ERIK PRINCE, FORMER BLACKWATER CEO: Good on Secretary Rubio for -- and good on President Bukele for working together on that. That makes a ton of sense.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Erik Prince, the private contractor and former CEO of the infamous security firm Blackwater, that provoked international outrage after a deadly 2007 shooting that killed Iraqi civilians.
In late January, just days before Secretary Rubio's visit, Prince pitched President Bukele on the prison proposal directly by phone, sources tell CNN. Unreported before now, Prince's role, highlights with CNN interviews with more than a dozen current and former administration officials and people close to Prince, say is an expanding level of influence in the new administration.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Erik Prince, when President Trump wins again, how important is it for us to go after the deep state? MATTINGLY (voice-over): An executive branch where Prince's close network of conservative allies are powerful players around and at the highest levels of the second Trump administration.
PRINCE: I told Pete Hegseth we need to focus on lethality and merit at the Pentagon. That's it. Lethality and merit.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: War fighting and lethality and the readiness of the troops and their families will be our only focus.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): It marks a dramatic turn from the end of the first Trump term where many top officials viewed Prince as a pariah.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): After the 2024 election, Prince spent months courting Trump allies, including taking multiple trips to Mar-a-Lago, where in mid-November he spoke at the CPAC Investor Summit.
[20:50:09]
PRINCE: President Trump's right to skip a generation and to go to a younger SECDEF nominee. I think Pete Hegseth will be great.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Prince is now seen regularly at the Pentagon, sources say, and is angling to join two key defense advisory boards.
PRINCE: Putting Tulsi forward as a veteran who understands intelligence, the need to clean up the analysis, and the nonsense that's become what it is, she must be confirmed.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): He also served as a character witness for Tulsi Gabbard's once troubled Senate confirmation prospects.
TULSI GABBARD, NATION INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR: I, Tulsi Gabbard --
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Gabbard, now the Senate confirmed director of National Intelligence. At the same time, Prince's own podcast and his ubiquity across the conservative ecosystem have elevated his policies and his profile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need people like that.
PRINCE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need people that know how to solve problems.
PRINCE: Yes.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Now, he privately pitches new proposals to Trump allies for his private contractors to handle everything from deportations of immigrants and operations against the Houthis in Yemen to helping secure valuable mineral deposits buried beneath foreign soil. That includes a 26-page proposal reviewed by CNN designed to dramatically expand Trump's deportation efforts. PRINCE: This is not some idea of a private army. It was a memo generated to describe how to achieve the logistics necessary to move the millions of people that they intend to deport.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): It's Prince's decades-long focus on security that led him to El Salvador in mid-August, where he sought to meet the nation's hardline law and order president, Nayib Bukele. He first toured the prison that serves as the linchpin of Bukele's aggressive gang crackdown.
PRINCE: I come away from that visit thinking maybe that's how the rest of our prisons should be run, to make them a truly miserable place to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you, sir?
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Then went to meet the man himself. This video posted on X from Bukele's official account.
PRINCE: I was very impressed, and I will probably go back and tell the good news story that it is possible to turn around chaos.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): The good news officially embraced just months later by the Trump administration.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Phil Mattingly -- go ahead, Phil.
MATTINGLY (on-camera): Yes, Anderson, I was just going to say we don't have any indication that President Trump has seen or signed off on any of the proposals Prince has circulated. We do know senior officials at the White House, critical agencies have seen them. In some cases, helped him refine those proposals.
One thing that's important to note here, Anderson, Erik Prince, by all accounts in this reporting that my colleagues Zach Cohen, Priscilla Alvarez, and I did, hasn't changed. What's changed is pretty much everything else around him, the world, foreign leaders, the administration, the people that are leading the administration.
His views, the way he views the world, national security, and these proposals are now very much aligned with the current Trump administration and world leaders, particularly in the Western Hemisphere, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Phil Mattingly, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, a man who says he was held captive for more than 20 years in his stepmother's home. How he escaped, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:44]
COOPER: Authorities say a 32-year-old man set fire to his home to escape captivity by his own stepmother. Jean Casarez has details.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
CHIEF FERNANDO SPAGNOLO, WATERBURY POLICE: 33 years of law enforcement, this is the worst treatment of humanity that I've ever witnessed.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When authorities were called to a home on fire, they were looking for anyone who may be trapped inside.
SPAGNOLO: Officers and fire investigators quickly realized that there was a room in the house that appeared to have locks on it from the exterior portion of the house.
CASAREZ (voice-over): A 32-year-old man was locked inside that room.
SPAGNOLO: They began to speak to the male victim, who disclosed that he was being held captive in the house for an extended period of time.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The man was treated for smoke inhalation, and police say he admitted to setting the fire to gain his freedom. He also told them he'd been held captive for more than 20 years by his stepmother since he was about 11 years old. He said he was only fed two sandwiches and two cups of water a day.
Authorities say he was held in an 8-by-9-foot storage room with no heat or air conditioning, and he suffered serious physical consequences. According to a police affidavit, the 32-year-old is 5 feet, 9 inches tall and just 68.7 pounds.
SPAGNOLO: There's a lot of physical therapy that he'll have to go through. There's a lot of healing that he'll have to go through.
CASAREZ (voice-over): According to law enforcement, authorities went to the home twice in April of 2004. The first visit was a welfare check requested by the Department of Children and Families.
SPAGNOLO: Officers went to the house. The house was clean. It was lived in. They spoke to the victim at that point in time, and there were no cause for any alarm.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Later that month, the family attempted to file harassment charges because the school district continued reporting the family to DCF. The affidavit says after that, his stepmother pulled him out of school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just unfathomable that anyone could treat someone this way.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The alleged victim says he wasn't allowed to use the bathroom and instead had to use bottles and newspaper. His stepmother, Kimberly Sullivan, was arrested on charges of assault, second-degree kidnapping, and first-degree unlawful restraint. Her attorney says the allegations against her are not true. IOANNIS A. KALOIDIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR KIMBERLY SULLIVAN: Absolutely not true. He was not locked in a room. She did not restrain him in any way. She provided food. She provided shelter. She is blown away by these allegations.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
CASAREZ (on-camera): Really something, you know, the Department of Children and Families has gotten back with me, DCF. They said they have searched their current databases, their historical databases. They cannot find the name of that family, and no one they can find even referred that there was abuse in the home. But they say there's a law in Connecticut after five years, if no abuse is found, they delete all the records.
COOPER: Wow. Jean Casarez, appreciate it. Just sickening.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
