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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Supreme Court Says Trump Must Facilitate Return of Man Mistakenly Deported to El Salvador; Markets Plunge Again as Trump Raises China Tariff to 145 Percent; Interview with Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY. Family Of Five And Pilot Killed In NYC Chopper Plunge; Trump Receives Praise From His Cabinet As Market Tumbles And Trade War With China Escalates; Musk Lowers DOGE's Estimated Savings To $150B; Trump Executive Orders Target How We Learn About Our Past. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 10, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: ...when Trump started saying, "Henry", and H.R. McMaster corrected him. He said, "Mr. President, this is H.R. McMaster." According -- this is, you know, CBS they're saying H in H.R., short for Herbert, not Henry. So the conversation, I guess, had been going on for a while. Then Trump realizes he's talking to the wrong person and finally understanding who he really was talking to. According to the report, says, "Why the eff would I talk to H.R. McMaster?"
Needless to say from that point, the call was incredibly brief. The call just happened also, think about this, just days before Jeffrey Goldberg was accidentally added to the Signal chat where Trump's National Security officials were discussing war plans.
Thanks so much for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:50]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, breaking news, the Supreme Court orders the Trump administration to help get back the man they deported to the notorious El Salvador prison by mistake.
Also, with markets in meltdown mode again, the President says it will all work out. As for his Cabinet, they're heaping praise on his handling of it all.
And later, the horrifying crash of a sightseeing helicopter in New York City, the chopper plummeting from the sky, crashing into the Hudson River with a family of five on board. We'll show you how it happened.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin with breaking news from the Supreme Court. This happened a little more than an hour ago. It concerns this man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was deported to El Salvador almost a month ago. The Trump administration called his inclusion in the deportation and an administrative error.
He's locked up in the country's notorious CECOT Prison, built to confine alleged convicted terrorists and gang members under very harsh conditions.
Now, the administration, while admitting it made a mistake, also said it cannot get him back despite a lower court order to make it happen. And a little more than an hour ago, the Supreme Court weighed in, though perhaps not in a way that settles the matter once and for all, saying the administration must abide by the lower courts order to facilitate his return.
Here, to help us sort it out, former federal prosecutor, best-selling Supreme Court biographer Jeffrey Toobin. I want to read just from the court ruling. "The order properly requires the government to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador. The intended scope of the term effectuate in the district court's order is, however, unclear and may exceed the district courts authority." What does that mean?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, first of all, I think it's just worth pausing to recognize. This was an extraordinary, unanimous rebuke of the Trump administration. By --
COOPER: That's a big deal from the Supreme Court.
TOOBIN: -- from this Supreme Court with six conservatives on it. The fact that they all agreed that the -- that the Trump administration should try to facilitate the return of Mr. Garcia to the United States. But what does that mean in the real world, the Trump administration has already said Mr. Garcia is in the custody of El Salvador. We have no control over prisons in El Salvador, so we can't get him back.
Now, given the relationship --
COOPER: That seems absurd, given that they're paying them $6 million or whatever for -- to hold these people.
TOOBIN: Right, and given the very close relationship, particularly between this administration and the El Salvador -- the current El Salvador government, it seems like this is something that they could facilitate if they wanted to. But what remains mysterious about this order is what happens if Mr. Garcia doesn't come back? And how does the court try to enforce something that's entirely in another country, under the under the control of another government? That's left very much open by this --
COOPER: And who would decide that, a lower court?
TOOBIN: Well, for the time being, a lower court will try to -- will administer the return. But ultimately they have very limited jurisdiction over what goes on in El Salvador. So, the direction is to our government. And the question is how hard will the Trump administration try to get Mr. Garcia back, if at all?
COOPER: One can make an argument, they might not want him back. If they don't want him giving interviews. They don't want that sort of continuing. And there could just be a, you know, a nod and a wink in the Salvadoran government could say no.
TOOBIN: The Trump administration's approach to this whole case has been like something one of my law professors used to say, which is, some people think some crimes are so terrible that not even innocence is a defense.
In other words, because he was even mistakenly accused of being involved in this gang, that means he has to be treated like he's in this gang. And so, he's stuck in this hellhole in El Salvador with no recourse. Now, I think it's certainly good news for him that the Supreme Court ordered the Trump administration to try to get him back. But whether he gets back is unclear.
COOPER: Jeff Toobin, thanks very much, appreciate it.
[20:05:07]
Now, the markets and fresh evidence of whether the President has unleashed on 401(k)s and the global economy with his tariff policy has not been undone and perhaps can't be undone by yesterday's partial step back from the brink.
Yesterday's rally became today's short pullback as it sank in for investors. It is simply delaying many tariffs for 90 days still leaves the U.S. with the highest rates in a century and still embroiled in a trade war with China. The Dow industrials lost 2.5 percent; S&P 500 nearly three-and-a-half. The NASDAQ down almost four-and-a-half.
Now at one point, losses were nearly double that after the White House clarified that tariffs on Chinese goods were not 125 percent as first thought, they were actually 145 percent.
Asked about it at a Cabinet meeting, the President passed the proverbial mic to his Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I haven't seen it because I've been here for two-and-a-half hours, so I'll be seeing it. I think Scott want to have -- Scott, you want to have a statement on that?
SCOTT BESSENT, US TREASURY SECRETARY: Sure, look, the up two down one is not a bad ratio. Or up, up, ten. down five.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The President also tried to steal the focus back toward yesterday's rally, calling it historic. He downplayed the trillions lost so far, saying they'll always be transition difficulty. He added I think it's going to work out really very well. Not surprisingly, members of his Cabinet quickly agreed. A lot of attaboys all around.
HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: So, we have so many countries to talk to. It is its incredible. And they have come with offers that they never, ever, ever would have come with, but for the moves that the President has made.
BESSENT: I've had these countries call me up and -- Secretary Bessent we're happy you're going to be negotiating. Well, President Trump's going to be involved, too.
LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER, U.S. LABOR SECRETARY: I think that what you have assembled in your vision is a turning point and an inflection point in American history. And so, just being a part of that is the greatest honor.
JAMIESON GREER, U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: You started a reordering of a national trade, something that hasn't happened for 80 years. We've had countries come in over the past couple of weeks that represent more than half of global domestic GDP. More than half, would have happened without you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, whatever you might think of that display or the President's policy or his partial rollback of it yesterday, the market seemed focused instead on other hard realities, namely the trade war with China, the 10 percent tariff on the rest of the world, which was not deferred, and the implausibility of the administration hammering out trade agreements country by country with almost the entire world in the next 89 days. CNN's Kasie Hunt asked trade official, Peter Navarro about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: So, we've got a graphic that shows other recent trade deal negotiations. Okay, we can put it up for viewers with Central America, 16 months. The USMCA 15 months. South Korea 14 months. Australia 14 months. We tried to do it with the U.K., our strongest allies paused after three years and seven months. How can you do any single one of these in 90 days, let alone. All of them?
PETER NAVARRO, SENIOR COUNSEL FOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING: Yes, hang on, you're missing the whole point. I'm telling you, we have the ability to come up with a deal. The boss is going to be the lead negotiator, and we can get that done. And one of the things we're going to do -- is you're seeing all those law firms that are giving us, like, $100 million at a crack, a free legal advice. We're going to hopefully have them very much involved in all of this. And we do stuff in Trump time, which is to say, as quickly as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, so far the White House announced precisely zero trade in tariff deals with any countries at all. Major banks are still predicting a significant chance of recession this year, and beyond that, no one knows from one moment to another what might come next. It's reflected in data measuring economic uncertainty from the federal reserve.
Take a look. A big spike on the left of the graph is the start of the COVID pandemic. The one on the right, nearly as big and higher than it's been since COVID is right now.
For more on all this, we're joined by CNN chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source," Kaitlan Collins. She's also hosting a CNN Town Hall with members of Congress at the top of the next hour. So, is it clear if the President intends to do anything else to try to calm markets, or was that it yesterday?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, when he was asked about it today, Anderson, essentially he said that he had been in that side of that Cabinet meeting that he was having this morning where his Treasury Secretary was there, sitting across the table from him. The Commerce Secretary was there as well. He said he had not seen these wild swings that we've been watching in the market today, especially because the White House clarified that these tariffs were not just 125 percent on China, it was 145 percent total. With that additional 20 percent of tariffs that were already put in place by the administration.
And so, that is why you saw the stock market closing the way that it did today. And when the President then turned to his Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, and inside that Cabinet meeting and asked him to weigh in, Scott Bessent essentially argued that they were expecting there to be some pullback in the market today. After that rally yesterday, following the President's 90-day pause on the reciprocal tariffs. And so, he essentially was downplaying it and saying they weren't that concerned about it.
[20:10:10]
We do know that they are paying close attention to this, Anderson. That is why, in part, you saw the President take that step, pulling back yesterday. And so, there is two things happening right now.
One, a real question of what these negotiations over the next 90 days are going to look like. Essentially, they've been arguing that they are getting tons of phone calls from the finance ministers of different countries, from the leaders of different countries trying to make a deal with the United States, because the President said today, if they don't get to an agreement within those 90 days, those tariffs will go back into place. I think that's still an open question right now.
But as far as the China tariffs, don't expect those to come back anytime soon, at least not in full force, because the argument that we've heard from our sources and officials inside the White House is the President views those much differently than he does the reciprocal tariffs on allies of the United States, essentially.
So, that is something to watch obviously going forward. Obviously, a well-timed moment for the town hall tonight as were seeing the economic concerns that many Americans have following the President's announcement about those tariffs.
What they were going to do to their bottom line, not just to individuals and the goods they're buying, but also, of course, Anderson, for small businesses and what that looks like. So, we'll have four lawmakers here on stage tonight answering all those questions from voters.
COOPER: Kaitlan, thanks very much.
Joining me now is David Axelrod, senior political commentator, former senior adviser to President Obama; journalist Gretchen Carlson, founder of lift our voices. And Richard Quest, CNN Business editor-at- large and anchor of "Quest Means Business."
David, President Trump's supporters were quick to credit him with the stunning rise of the stock market yesterday, despite the fact it didn't get all the way back to where it was before the tariffs were announced. And obviously we saw what happened today. Where do you think this is headed?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, Anderson, let me say you're the greatest anchor I've ever seen. And I'm honored to be part of this.
COOPER: Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to control everybody here. And so, I want to hear praises, yes, thank you, but don't look me directly in the eye, please.
AXELROD: I am not a -- I am not. I'll leave it to Richard to talk about the economics of this. I can only talk about the politics of it. I think that what -- we haven't seen a huge drop in the President's support. There's been some diminution. He is not doing as well on the economy, which used to be his strong suit and on inflation particularly, not well.
But people are going to give him some time here. He says this is all going to work out. And they're going to give him some time. But when he talks about transition difficulties, if you're a farmer or a small businessman or a consumer and it starts hitting you in the pocketbook. Those are not just difficulties that can be, much more severe and he was elected to improve that situation among people.
So, the problem he has politically is how he lands this plane without doing real damage to consumers and to many of the folks who voted for him to improve the economy. We don't know the answer to that yet, but if he doesn't figure it out, it will have an impact on him.
COOPER: Richard I mean, where do you see this going?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Oh, badly. I mean, we are now in a full, say, the U.S. and China are in a trade war. Let's not talk about getting there. Maybe, possibly, it's here. And we are now waiting for China to respond to the last bit, that confused bit up to 145 percent and not would expect to happen overnight. But the Chinese have made it clear, they have said, we are going to see this through to the end. They have a greater threshold for pain because they don't have the same political realities and eventually one side or the other is going to have to come to the table to negotiate it down.
But in the meantime, thousands of dollars, it's going to cost more. What will happen is supply chains will readjust. It's known as the pre synchronized and the post synchronization of trade. And it could take months to do for all that to take place. And in the meantime companies have got no idea. The China - U.S. China is 14 percent of U.S. Imports 14 percent.
Rebalancing that down to say four or five percent will be incredibly difficult, painful and expensive.
COOPER: Gretchen, the White House said the President is the President -- he's the President who stands up for main street, not Wall Street. There's certainly a lot of folks on main stream, who've had their 401(k)s. I mean, they've seen what's happened.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: Well, right now, I think people might argue that he's not being a President for either Wall Street or Main Street. What some people may not know also is that this administration is still moving forward with making 43 percent cuts of employees at the Small Business Administration, and they're also looking to get rid of the grants that were given out to small businesses that started during COVID. So you have that hit coming, and then you have just the complete uncertainty for small businesses.
I mean, their supply chain is being disrupted. The costs are obviously going to be coming to them. Will they be able to afford it? Their margins are small to begin with. And then I would just say that he should be the President for all people. And one of the things, as David said, that he campaigned on was the economy and the price of eggs. And it was reported today that eggs and it was reported today that eggs in March were at a record high price at $6.27 a dozen.
So, right now, he's sort of striking out with all different factions, no matter who he's trying to say he's President of.
COOPER: Richard, we heard Peter Navarro saying -- they are going to do these trade deals and now if you look at how trade deals are done, it's taking a long time for most trade deals.
QUEST: Yes, ignore the headline number. This is not about getting the 24 percent down to zero or anything like that. This is about non-trade tariff barriers. In other words countries have a rule on procurement or emission standards or anything, any rule, regulation or directive that's going to prevent the U.S. from getting into that market.
Now, we know what they are. There's a bulletin that comes out every year. So, when they sit down, the U.S. will say, right, we get rid of that, get rid of that, get rid of that, and that is the price for us not doing. So, to some extent, Navarro is right. They can do it because the very, very severe tariffs are there as the Sword of Damocles and they know exactly for every country, they know what they want to get rid of. Australia, it's hormone beef. Vietnam, it's government procurement rules. South Korea, it's emission standards.
COOPER: David for Democrats, I mean, I think a lot of Democrats perhaps saw this as an opportunity, you know, a sign of weakness in the administration and obviously something that would, you know, there's a lot of anger, there's a lot of concern about this. Where do you see Democrats in all of this? AXELROD: Yes, no, look, I think Democrats have been in a reactive mode because there's not a lot to do. There's not a lot of leverage for them. But again, you know, Richard talks about these negotiations.
The way Donald Trump operates is he -- he just needs to get to the point where he can declare victory. I mean, and he'll describe victory as whatever it is that he can get. The real issue here is that the situation with China has significant impacts on American consumers, on American businesses, on American farmers. And he's ratcheted that up. Now, that's something the public, I have to say, the public is much more accepting of tough measures against China than against our closest allies.
So, he may slide down the pole on our closest allies and stick with us. But it's going to have material effects on people's pocketbooks. And that is a political problem. And I think a lot of Democrats recognize that. And they're waiting to see what happens.
COOPER: Yes, we've seen Gretchen, some Rust Belt the Democrat's Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, you recently spoke to her kind of thread the needle on tariffs, Bernie Sanders last night, also, you know, he is in support of tariffs so you know done in a certain way.
CARLSON: Yes, look, I mean, I think that especially with Governor Whitmer in Michigan, Michigan, 20 percent of their economy is based on the auto industry, right. But she has constituents on both sides of the fence. The United Auto Workers want the tariffs because they think that's going to bring more jobs back at higher salaries. The auto dealers and the auto manufacturers don't want them because they're going to get killed. And President Trump is asking the auto manufacturers to absorb the cost. Well, then it's passed on to the dealer, and then its passed on to the consumer.
So, there's a lot of nuance there that's going on at the same time. So, but let's face it, if in fact, that Trump administration does negotiate some of these deals, then that will also be a different nuance. I mean, that that will be a positive, even if they get a five percent change, right?
QUEST: Yes, totally.
CARLSON: It'll be fairer trade. But they didn't have to do it with this much chaos. That was unnecessary.
COOPER: It could have been done in a different way, Richard.
CARLSON: Yes.
QUEST: Yes, all you had to do last week was say, these are the tariffs that we are going to do. And by the way, you've got 90-days now to come and give us your best offer and you know what's going to happen if we don't reach an agreement.
COOPER: All right, Richard. Thank you, Richard Quest, Gretchen Carlson, David Axelrod. Next, more on how all of this might shake out with China and the rest of the world. We'll talk about that. And the Supreme Court news with a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
Later, all were learning about the helicopter sightseeing trip that ended in New York's Hudson River. Six lives lost his helicopter plummeting out of the sky. Well, show you the video ahead next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:23:43]
COOPER: More now on tonight's breaking news, the Supreme Court has instructed the administration to facilitate this man's return, Kilmar Garcia from El Salvador, where he was deported to last month. As Jeff Toobin and I discussed before the break, the high court underscored the need for deference to the Executive Branch and seemed to take issue with the lower court's demand that the administration effectuate, in addition to facilitating the process.
Joining us now is New York Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks, Ranking Member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. I want to talk to you about a lot of things, but what do you make of the Supreme Court's decision to the administration needs to facilitate this Maryland man's return? Seems like there may be some wiggle room there.
REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): We'll no, I think that they need to -- the President can call the President of El Salvador and say, bring him home.
COOPER: Do you think it's as simple as that in truth?
MEEKS: It should be. They have a -- I think the President of the United States has a good relationship with the President of El Salvador. And so, he can make the call. They know where he, you know, in the prison. He's got to be in the prison facility. There's got to be a record of him. You know, and what's unfortunate is the fact that he's there in the first place. And that's why, you know, when you look at this process, you know, and due process, you know, you should check and know who you're shipping out.
COOPER: What if the administration says, look, there's nothing we can do? El Salvador has said no.
MEEKS: That's unacceptable. Have you ever heard Donald Trump say, somebody can just say no to him, just like that?
COOPER: If he's telling Ukraine to give up their minerals, you think he could get this guy out of a prison?
MEEKS: That's correct. You know, he is a guy who, in my estimation, thinks he's a king, you know, and that's what he tries to do when he dictates here in the United States. So clearly, he would call the President El Salvador, whatever he wants and say, this is what I need to get done.
[20:25:11]
COOPER: On these tariffs, I mean, you're the ranking member on the Foreign Affairs Committee on the China tariffs, in particular. Two, senior White House officials said to CNN the U.S. will not reach out to China first. Where do you see this going?
MEEKS: Well, look, we can see where it's headed is because of the uncertainty that this President has created, that the American public is going to pay a lot more. You know, I just say even on a personal level, I just said, I better go buy some electronics now before the prices start to zoom up even more and --
COOPER: The administration has talked about, well, iPhone, Apple's iPhone, you know, could be should be made in America. If that was the case, I mean, there's all sorts of estimates of what an iPhone would actually cost.
MEEKS: Well, that's true. I mean, clearly whatever the President doesn't -- I don't believe, understands business, to be quite frank, I know he's supposed to be a businessman, but I question -- he bankrupt six businesses, so I question his ability to make those kind of determinations. If you talk to any economist and I've talked to several, I've read several, whether they be conservative or liberal, they all say that this now the possibility of a recession happening because of the policies that the President has put in place as the rates have risen, so --
COOPER: What do you say to those -- you know, there has been imbalance on tariffs and other countries have had, you know, high tariffs against the U.S. bringing -- getting products into those countries. It seems like now, I mean, according to the administration, a lot of countries are wanting to negotiate if they are able to negotiate and the window seems very small and there's a lot of questions whether that could actually happen. But if, you know, is it possible this could turn out to be a good thing?
MEEKS: Look, there's a difference between negotiating with reference to trade balance and tariffs. Tariffs basically are tantamount to taxes. And it is something that's passed along from, the country that is importing that product to the manufacturer or to the to the business entity here, who then passes it along to the customer.
So, there's nothing that's going to good, particularly in the manner of which this President is doing it. Because when you think about uncertainty, businesses can't work with uncertainty. And what he's done is continued for the last -- what -- he's only been here for 90 days or so, uncertainty.
and so, still, even by wiping it out for 90 days, holding it up for 90 days, there's more uncertainty. And that's why you see the stock market going up and down. You know, he was bragging at one second, oh this is the greatest game. And then because of what he had done and the back and forth with China, markets are crashing again.
COOPER: You're a former prosecutor in New York. I mean, you've had a really fascinating career. You've done a lot of different things. When you see these law firms, these big money law firms making deals with the administration for something that it probably wouldn't hold up in court. I mean, what the administration is trying to do for these law firms is unprecedented. The pressure he's putting on them. How do you see this?
MEEKS: I see flashing red lights all over because I haven't seen or we haven't seen anything like this in history --
COOPER: It's never happened --
MEEKS: -- since the 1930s, that's right. And in the U.S., what did happen is when we tried to isolate ourselves and high tariffs rates, and then we had the great depression and then we've not seen, you know, all the types of individuals who became dictators basically in the 1930s. They all were appropriately elected. They were elected democratically. But then they got rid of all of the inspector generals, they got rid of all of the generals that were not loyal to them.
There's flashing red lights that are taking place right now with what this President is doing. He's getting rid of generals who's not pledged to him, not to the country, but to him. If you're not pledged to him, he doesn't care about you. If you pledge to the country, it doesn't mean anything. So, you see him making all those changes, to me, those are flashing red lights of danger that is taking place. And I know that might not be political, but if you look at history, it should be a concern, I think, to all Americans.
And then you look at how he tries to avoid Congress and not going to Congress. He's supposed to be a check and a balance with oversight responsibilities. He's doing everything he can to prevent that. For example, even with this tariffs bill, I put in a privileged resolution so that we can have a vote on the floor, let Congress decide, and they're doing everything that they can to avoid that.
And he has now a Speaker who wants to make sure that he facilitates whatever it is that the President asks for.
COOPER: Congressman Meeks, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
MEEKS: Thank you for having me.
COOPER: Unprecedented times, coming up next, more breaking news.
This is the scene right now in Lower Manhattan after a sightseeing helicopter went down in the Hudson river. We will, show you how it happened.
Later after inflicting so much pain on public servants, Elon Musk is now scaling back his claims that he can save taxpayers a trillion dollars or more by a lot. Kara Swisher joins us for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back, you're looking at live video of the Hudson River, where a sightseeing helicopter crashed earlier today with the loss of six lives. That's one of the ventilation towers for the Holland Tunnel nearby, which runs between New York and New Jersey.
According to authorities, the pilot and a family of five from Spain, two adults and three children, were killed. There's video from social media of the chopper plunging out of the sky. It is tough to watch. We're going to show you it.
We've visually highlighted the aircraft, a piece of it that appears to break apart as it spirals and falls upside down into the water. Take a look.
So here's another video slowed down and a little more zoomed in. So those were pieces of the aircraft. And then you see the helicopter itself with other pieces still flying off as it is plunging down.
[20:35:05]
There's a screenshot also. You can see the chopper upside down as it's falling. All of this, I mean, this is the kind of video that's going to be poured over by investigators who are obviously already on the scene.
First responders, other boats rushed to the scene in the Hudson River right away. This is the chopper floating upside down, mostly now submerged in the river.
Joining me now is former FAA Safety Inspector David Soucie, who trains as a helicopter mechanic on the same type of aircraft involved in this tragedy. So, David, what are the kind of the outstanding questions you have about the crashes as you see -- I mean, how do things fall off in the middle of the -- in the air?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: I tell you, Anderson, in 45, almost 50 years now in this industry, I've never seen anything like this. That Bell 206 is the backbone of the helicopter industry. It was used in Vietnam. It was used everywhere.
This aircraft is like the John Deere of the skies, if you will. But to see this happen is just heartbreaking to me. But looking at it and doing some analysis on it, you can see that on the top, the rotors are no longer connected to the aircraft. And the transmission, which drives those rotors, is also still connected to those.
So to me, that indicates only a couple of possibilities. It appears to me that there was a tail rotor strike. In other words, the main rotor, if you're doing an auto rotation, for example, if the rotor speed gets low enough, then the rotors can droop. And when that happens, if you put in the wrong kind of control into it, it can actually let that tail or let the main rotor hit the tail rotor or the tail boom.
And it appears to me that that's what happened here because that entire transmission came off and the tail rotors off and just a horrific, horrific way to go into the water this way. And I feel for all those who've lost people in this accident.
COOPER: So, can you just explain that? So the rotors, as they are going around, if they're going at a certain speed, they're actually -- there -- they come down a little bit and can possibly -- do they hit the smaller rotor in the tail or the actual tail of the helicopter?
SOUCIE: The actual tail of the helicopter. And it's very uncommon because typically the centrifugal force of those blades keep it out, keep it out of way. And it won't bend or droop or anything. Once you start spinning it at a high speed, there's very little chance. And in fact, nearly impossible for that main rotor to hit the tail boom.
But if you're in auto rotation or if something slows that rotor speed down, then --
COOPER: I'm sorry, what's an auto rotation?
SOUCIE: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, an auto rotation is if the engine quits on you, then what you are trained to do is to put the collective down, which allows the blades to switch where now as the helicopter descends, it's speeding up the blades. It's like a fan blade coming down.
So as it speeds up, you get down close to the ground. Then you can pull in the collective and pull back and land safely just from the inertia that's left in the blades. So that's what an auto rotation is.
But if the engine goes -- it quits at a higher altitude or when you're in this transition phase of trying to get some airspeed that you're kind of vulnerable to that at that point. So if the engine goes out at that critical phase, then the rotor speed can slow down enough to allow those blades to start drooping down and may hit that tail boom.
So that's one of the things that -- but again, Anderson, I've never seen this happen in a commercial helicopter. I have seen it in military helicopters the way back in the first Hueys back in the Vietnam era. But at this point for commercial aircraft to do this is nearly impossible. I've never seen it, Anderson.
COOPER: It's just -- it's awful. David Soucie, I appreciate it. Obviously, more to learn on this.
Next, Elon Musk has slashed not only government jobs, but also now his promises about the amount of government spending DOGE can cut. I'll tell you -- talk about that with Kara Swisher.
And later the anti-DEI moves by Team Trump and purging of American history online continues. We'll get perspective on this moment from Presidential Historian Doris Kearns Goodwin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:43:32]
COOPER: We showed you some of the president's Cabinet earlier today in a meeting singing his praises on tariffs and trade. But the flattery did not stop there even Elon Musk now knows what is expected.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are overwhelmingly elected by the biggest majority.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under your leadership, like so many other industries, we are going to revitalize and make shipbuilding and maritime great again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to make you proud.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, thank you for your leadership at the border.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The American worker is grateful. Main Street is grateful for you.
ELON MUSK, TESLA CEO Thanks to your fantastic leadership, this amazing Cabinet, the very talented DOGE team.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now is CNN Contributor, Podcast Host and Author of "Burn Book: A Tech Love Story", Kara Swisher. I mean, Elon --
KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You look great.
COOPER: -- Elon Musk --
SWISHER: Anderson, you look amazing. Your leadership in the beginning (ph).
COOPER: Well, Kara, I just want to say that it is an honor to be in your presence, though technically I'm not in your presence, but I'm not worthy to be in your presence.
SWISHER: Right.
COOPER: But I bow and I supplicate myself in front of you.
SWISHER: It's great. That one is great.
COOPER: The idea that Elon Musk, who like legendarily his management style was like, you know, very cut to the chase, is now doing this like I doff my cap to you, sir --
SWISHER: Yes, yes.
COOPER: -- is insane.
SWISHER: He's got to leave, but he's got to save himself and leave. This is not his personality at all. And, you know, for a while, you've got to kind of play beta to Trump's alpha, especially after this disastrous week when it didn't work out so well for him. So he desperately needs the affirmation.
[20:45:01]
But with someone like Musk, it's really not a comfortable situation to be in. He's always in charge. And often -- sometimes he deserves credit that he gets for some of the things he does. Other times, obviously, this didn't the government's not been the most successful for him.
COOPER: Well, what's interesting, it hasn't gotten as much pickup. But at today's Cabinet meeting, Musk said he projects those to save the government about $150 billion in the next fiscal year. I mean, as you know --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- he'd previously predicted, you know, you're talking about $1 trillion. He even did $2 trillion in savings.
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: Just take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much do you think we can rip out of this wasted $6.5 trillion Harris-Biden budget?
MUSK: Well, I think we can do at least $ trillion.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: $2 trillion.
SWISHER: Yes, he made it up. He made it up, obviously. Either he didn't find fraud and our government's working better than you think, or it's really hard to be cutting these things as they're so interconnected. And the only way you could do it is by crudely cutting off big pieces like USAID, which still isn't very big.
And so, you know, I think you can find savings here and there, as you should, as you should always be doing that and try to improve services and make it more efficient. But this has been a lot of promises, sort of overpromising and underdelivering.
COOPER: Well, I mean, a number of people who have been fired, and I've talked to a bunch of them, were people working on waste and fraud --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- in the government and out of the government. I mean, that's the departments that were working on this have had people --
SWISHER: Yes, inspectors.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: Yes, inspectors. They've been laying them off. They've been laying anything that causes regulatory pain for Elon Musk himself and his companies. You know, you don't get rid of inspectors and people that are looking into things and you don't cut off tiny little things that aren't going to make a difference and actually may in the end cost more.
I mean, what this would take is an incredible amount of aggression and at the same time thoughtfulness in terms of cutting. And he changed from -- Trump changed from the chainsaw metaphor, which Elon used, I think probably sort of tank this effort to a more surgical thing. But even doing the surgery is difficult to find the real savings in a massive government like the United States.
COOPER: How soon do you think? I mean, there's no way to predict this kind of stuff, but I mean --
SWISHER: No.
COOPER: -- how soon do you think he will -- his, I mean, his companies, I mean, Tesla is in trouble.
SWISHER: Yes, he needs help. I mean, obviously, besides the tariff hit that everybody's been taking, the shares have been on a real downward plunge. And a lot of it has to do with people don't like him and these protests and things like that. But it also -- as I've been talking about for several years, they don't haven't had new cars.
And the Cybertruck has undersold by an enormous amount. And they only sold $45,000 or something like that. And so he's got a lot of business issues. He's got to deal with the, you know, trying to stay competitive in the AI race with XAI.
You know, he shoved X in there first to hide it, I guess, or something like that. And so he's got a lot of business challenges, including a promise, a more promising companies like Starlink, which is seeing competitors now. And so he really should go back to what he does well. I would do if I were him.
COOPER: This is a longer question -- a topic. But, I mean, do you think we are ready as a society? Just the societal impact on like, you know -- or, yes, does human impact of AI? I mean, what houses -- do you think we're ready for this?
SWISHER: No, Anderson, I don't think we are at all. But at the same time, it's moving quickly and things are happening. And, you know, as you start using that, which I recommend for everyone to do and not be scared of it, you do understand how it's a big leap forward in computing and how it does things instantly.
The other day I was looking for a logo and it was made in five seconds, like really good. It would have taken me a week to do little things like that. At the same time, we have to put in safety measures in place, which the Trump administration seems low to do.
But, you know, there's going to be big winners and big fortunes made here because this is the next part of computing --
COOPER: For me, I'm obsessed with what happens like to ambition or striving. If machines can do everything better, like what do we all do? SWISHER: Some things better. You're creative. You do other things. You know, it's very hard for these things right now to be creative and they will be over time. It's just -- it's -- we'll see what it does.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: We don't know a lot of stuff. But, you know, the world's been doing this forever since --
COOPER: It's a big experiment.
SWISHER: -- automation --
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: -- since -- farming used to be done by hoes. And now it's, you know, it's changed.
COOPER: I'm a Luddite.
Kara Swisher, thanks very much. We'll talk more.
SWISHER: Thanks.
COOPER: I appreciate it.
President Trump's executive order is targeting our history, even rewriting it. I'll talk about this moment with Presidential Historian Doris Kearns Goodwin next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:54:14]
COOPER: We've been following the Trump administration's efforts to rewrite history as part of an effort to eliminate references to diversity, equity and inclusion. For instance, the department -- government departments like the Department of Defense, they deleted references to the struggles and accomplishments of black Americans, gay, lesbian and transgender Americans, trailblazing women who fought for equality.
Including references that Tuskegee Airmen, Jackie Robinson's military record and confusingly, the aircraft that dropped the atomic bomb on Japan, the name of that plane, the Enola Gay, which apparently was flagged because of the word gay. By the way, Enola Gay was the name of the pilot's mother. Some of those websites have been restored after a public outcry.
Then in March, late March, President Trump took aim at national parks and museums, specifically the Smithsonian and signed another executive order titled, "Restoring Truth and Sanity to American History". Reading in part, "the Smithsonian Institution has in recent years come under the influence of a divisive race-centered ideology".
[20:55:09] The National Park Service erased references to abolitionist Harriet Tubman from a webpage about the Underground Railroad. That image was restored, but it remains to be seen what they'll do with the Smithsonian. How much more whitewashing of the more difficult chapters in our nation's past there will be.
I want to talk to Doris Kearns Goodwin, presidential historian. She's also the author of "An Unfinished Love Story: A Personal History of the 1960s" and many other remarkable books.
Doris, what's been going through your mind as you've been seeing this rewriting of American history, the striking down of difficult parts of American history?
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yes, I mean, I feel like I wake up every day worrying about what new executive order is going to come out because individually they're really adding up to some cumulative attack on really the nature of history itself. Struggle in a democracy is what's produced all of our progress.
If we don't talk about Jim Crow, if we don't talk about slavery, if we don't talk about Birmingham and what happened at the Children's Crusade in 1863, which fired the conscience of the country, that produced the Civil Rights Act. If we don't talk about what happened at the bridge at Selma where the Alabama troopers hurt the peaceful marchers, it's disturbing to watch that, yes.
But the great achievement that President Trump keeps talking about, wanting to talk about, came from that because the conscience of the country was fired and the Voting Rights Act gets passed. If we don't talk about what women did for 72 years to fight for organizing and marching to get the women's amendment passed, it's not like someday a benevolent king woke up and said, oh, I think I'll give women the rights today.
Struggle is the part of what's made our country great, leading up to those ideals. We can't take away those struggles or we won't have a democracy. In your reading of history, I mean, it seems to me strong countries do not rewrite their history. Weak countries rewrite their history.
The Soviet Union would, you know, literally cut out of photographs leaders who had fallen out of favor or politburo members who had fallen out of favor on the wall of the Kremlin. It doesn't seem to be a sign of strength to do this.
GOODWIN: I mean, the real pride we should have, the patriotism we should have, is that as a country, we realized that things needed to change. We've always had those ideals there. That's what's great about America. The ideal of equality, the ideal of diversity.
But in a certain sense, you reach those ideals, you have progress, it goes backward, it goes forward, but you keep struggling forward. You know, one of the weirdest things they did in the recent weeks was to undo National History Day. It's been there for 50 years. 500,000 kids compete for exhibits and papers and group projects, and they go from the local to the state level. They finally get up to a national contest in College Park, Maryland, and then they get down to 3,000 kids. I went there one day to speak to them, and they learned to do primary sources, to go back and look at something like Birmingham, go back to the founding fathers, figure out what the primary sources are, figure out both sides of an issue.
They learned empathy. They learned critical thinking. It was great for teacher development, and now they're slashing the funds for that. I mean, history is so important. If we don't understand how we fought for the rights we have now, we're not going to know what to do now.
When Lincoln was called a liberator, he said, don't call me that. It was the anti-slavery movement who did it all. It was the progressive movement at the turn of the century. It's the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, the women's movement. It's always from the ground up, and that's what our history teaches us.
But if we whitewash that, then we don't know the struggles we've been through. We don't know what to do now. We're left without any learning from the past. It's really heartbreaking to me.
COOPER: It's -- you know, this President is pulling levers which have not been pulled before in a lot of different realms. We've seen him punishing private law firms that are associated with his perceived enemies or just law firms he doesn't like for one reason or another, investigating, you know, critics of his.
People who have spoken out against him in the past, which he just did yesterday. Is there anything in history, in the U.S. history, comparable to that? I mean, in the darkest days of Watergate, was it like that?
GOODWIN: I don't know. It seems to be coming in all manner of things, whether it's history or libraries or museums or law firms. But the only answer is what history teaches us is that the people begin to argue. They understand that something's happening, and they go out there.
They go to their town halls. They go to these protest meetings. They organize, and they fight back. I mean, that's what we've seen in history, and that's what gives you courage when you look at history to know that we can fight back against this.
We should be picketing in front of the law firms, perhaps picketing in front of some of these things that are happening. Some people are standing up, and they need to be supported. And I think that's what history tells us.
COOPER: That's the message of --
GOODWIN: When you stand up, things work.
COOPER: It works, you're saying. GOODWIN: I am saying that, absolutely. I mean, that's why we can't take it away from us that it was struggle that brought us where we are, because that's how we get from here we are to where we want to be in the future.
I mean, we're always fighting to reach that ideal. We never reach it perfectly, but we keep going. We get knocked back, and we keep going forward. It's the history of cycles on American history, and that's why it's comforting.
COOPER: Yes.
GOODWIN: That's why it gives us perspective, and that's why it gives us hope.
COOPER: Yes.
GOODWIN: That's why I love it so much.
COOPER: Doris Kearns-Goodwin, I love having you on. I love you. Thank you so much.
CNN's Town Hall --
GOODWIN: Thank you.
COOPER: -- America Asked Congress, moderated by Jake Tapper and Kaitlan Collins, starts right now.
