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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump's Supporters and Critics United Against Plane Deal; Trump Says He is Exploring Normalizing Relations with Syria After Key Meeting; Interview with Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL); Attempted Kidnapping of Crypto Currency Boss' Family on Streets of Paris Caught on Video; Trump Claims It's a Genocide of Afrikaners in South Africa; Episcopal Church Refuses to Participate in Resettling Afrikaner Refugees; Cassie Ventura Testifies She Was Suicidal After Years of Alleged Abuse by Sean "Diddy" Combs; Lawmakers Press Secretary Robert F. Kennedy on NIH Cuts. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 14, 2025 - 20:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: ... why are you here today? Why are you here at this trial? I want to read you what she said. She said, "I can't carry this anymore. I can't carry the shame, the guilt. What's right is right. What's wrong is wrong. I'm here to do the right thing."
She was crying at the end of her testimony and tomorrow she'll take the stand for a third day for cross examination.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: That is going to be something to see. And of course, you will be there as you have and all of this coming here from your reporting and you breaking that original video in that horrible hotel elevator.
All right, thank you so much Elizabeth and thanks so much to all of you for being with us.
AC360 starts now.
[20:00:40]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the President meets with the Emir, who's giving him a 747 and talks at length about why he needs it now. John Bolton, his former National Security advisor, has some thoughts on that, joins us tonight.
Also ahead, the man who made a career out of spreading vaccine falsehoods comes under questioning on the Hill. And now that he's in charge of public health in America, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is saying people shouldn't be taking medical advice from him.
And harrowing testimony by Sean "Diddy" Combs' ex-girlfriend about what she says he put her through in the video of some of it shown in court, which some jurors could not bear to watch.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight keeping them honest with the President's ongoing trip to the Middle East and the questions it continues to raise, including but not exclusively, about, the Qatari 747 he's getting, which has been described by some as a flying palace and by others, most notably Republican Senator Mike Rounds, as a potentially dangerous Trojan Horse.
Today, the President arrived in Qatar to another fighter escort. And later, as you can see here, to a motorcade with the President's limousine flanked by red Tesla cyber trucks. As in Saudi Arabia, it seems the word is out on how to please this President.
And it certainly seems to be working. At one stop today, President Trump told his host, the Emir, as a construction person, I'm seeing perfect marble. This is what they call perfecto. Before leaving his Saudi host, he met with Syria's interim president and came away a fan. Here's how he described him aboard Air Force One on the way over from Riyadh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Young, attractive guy, tough guy. You know, strong past, very strong past, fighter. But he's got a real shot at pulling it together. I spoke with President Erdogan, who I'm very friendly with, and he feels he's got a shot doing a good job. It's a torn up country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now when, he says "very strong past, a fighter" he doesn't mention for whom he was fighting and it's worth mentioning. He was fighting with Al-Nusra Front, which is al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria. And also, he didn't mention that until last December, the, in his words, young attractive guy had a $10 million American bounty on his head. So, it's quite a change.
Just as there's been a sea change in how Mr. Trump talks about Qatar. This was the President in 2017 talking about the Emirate and its support of Hamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The nation of Qatar, unfortunately, has historically been a funder of terrorism at a very high level. We have to stop the funding of terrorism. They have to end that funding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, he was talking about the same country he is in right now, run by the same Royal family that's in charge now, though now the President says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You have a great leader because you can have great land, you can have great wealth, you can have oil all over the place. You can have the oil and gas like nobody has. If you don't have a good leader, it doesn't mean a thing and you see it all the time. There are a lot of places with oil. There are a lot of places with everything that you're supposed to have for success, and they're not successful, but you're successful because of a man that's sitting on my left. That's a special man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Special man, he now says. The question is what changed and what is motivating that change? Now for Syria, it's fairly simple. The U.S. and others have an interest in limiting the influence that Iran has over the new government there, and Qatar has a role to play in that, too.
We should point out, he has also announced plans to lift sanctions against Syria that were put in place against the old regime. But the President and his family also have business interests there. Whether it's the $5-billion deal his family company just reached to build a golf resort in Qatar, or that plane, which the President would not answer when CNN's Kaitlan Collins asked him about it aboard Air Force One.
He was perfectly happy to talk at length with Fox's Sean Hannity about his airplane envy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The plane that you're in right now is almost 40 years old, and when you land and you see Saudi Arabia and you see UAE and you see Qatar, and you see all these and they have these brand new Boeing 747s mostly, and you see ours next to it. This is like a totally different plane.
It's much smaller. It's much less impressive, as impressive as it is. And you know, we're the United States of America, I believe that we should have the most impressive plane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:06]
COOPER: Well, he also said this about why he can't wait for the new planes Boeing is building.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Because it's going to be a couple of years, I think, before the Boeings are finished and they'll be wonderful when they're finished but that's a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Keeping them honest, a couple of years happens to also be how long it would likely take to rip apart and reequip the Qatari plane for Presidential use. So, unless the President wants to fly in the plane as it is, which would raise all sorts of security issues, he wouldn't be saving any time. And one more thing, what's wrong with the plane he's got? It is certainly old, but it's still maintained better than perhaps any aircraft on earth.
It's still fitted with state of the art defenses, communications, medical facilities and everything else the commander-in-chief needs. For an administration that has repeatedly talked about cutting down on waste, fraud and abuse, this seems off key, but perhaps not off brand.
The real answer for what's wrong with what he's got seems to be simple. He wants a new plane because he wants it. And just like Veruca Salt wanted an Oompa Loompa, he wants it now. As for his Qatari benefactors, they're just fine with it. Here's Qatar's prime minister, who's also a member of the Royal family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED BIN ABDULRAHMAN BIN JASSIM BIN JABER AL THANI, QATARI PRIME MINISTER: This is a very simple government to government, dealing. So, there is nothing really -- I don't know what was like why it became, like, so big as the news that this is something that, you know considered, you know, very in a very strange way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: This is just not a problem of a Royal family kind of worries about, apparently. However, it is a problem for national security professionals, one of whom, John Bolton, joins us shortly. It's a problem for constitutional lawyers and former government ethics watchdogs, some of whom we've spoken to recently. Certainly a big deal for most Democratic and some Republican lawmakers. But interestingly, it is not a problem, apparently, for the House's top Republican and former constitutional lawyer who was asked about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: If the President were to accept an airplane from the Qatari government, should Congress have approval over that kind of gift?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Look, I've been a little busy on reconciliation, so, I'm not following all the twists and turns of the Qatari jet. I've certainly heard about it.
My understanding is it's not a personal gift to the President, it's a gift to the United States and other nations give us gifts all the time. But, I'm going to leave it to the administration, they know much more about the details of that, okay. I'm just -- it's not my lane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN's chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins starts us off tonight from Doha, Qatar.
Other nations give gifts. Those gifts, if they're given to officials, generally have to be returned or you know, noted. Kaitlan, we mentioned that you tried to ask the President about the plane. Did you ever get an answer from him? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes or they actually have to buy those gifts, Anderson, there's an actual entire binder situation where the First Family could go through gifts that have been gifted to them during their time in the White House, and if they like something, they can purchase it. That is typically how this works. The Trump family knows this. They did it at the end of the President's first term in office.
Obviously, a plane is much higher value than anything else. That would typically be something that they would sort through. But on the plane itself, I mean, being here in Doha now, this is really loomed over the entire part of this visit in the trip, and certainly was something that was everyone was talking about when we were at the administrative offices of the Emir earlier today. That's where you see the President now, as they were meeting behind closed doors and then coming out in public.
And, Anderson, the other part that was just stood out to me is President Trump is so frustrated here because the delays in Boeing's order of the new Air Force Ones, the Boeing CEO is actually there in the room with us today as they were signing those agreements, because Qatar is buying a bunch of Boeing planes to the tune of $120 million. I believe maybe slightly more than that. I'll check the numbers.
But essentially, just to see him sitting there as they were really signing this and this is at the heart of this entire controversy and the scrutiny that the White House is now getting. But on the way here, as the President came back to speak with us in the press cabin on the plane, we were asking not only about what we've heard from Democrats on Capitol Hill.
People like Senator Schumer who say -- until they get more answers from the White House or from the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, on this transaction, that they are going to block the Justice Department political appointees from being confirmed to those positions.
President Trump dismissed that and mainly just focused on criticizing Senator Schumer. But he's also been facing some criticism from his own party as well, who have raised questions about surveillance and whether or not this is nefarious, essentially. And if they can trust the Qataris when it comes to gifting them such a large plane that they are giving to the Defense Department.
And so, all of that stuck out. Obviously, the President did not take any other questions as we were trying to ask another one on the plane, he thanked us and then went back to take his seat as we were about to land. And so, certainly this has been something that has just kind of hovered over this entire visit.
But one thing the President has made clear, Anderson, is he's not backing off of this, even if the Qataris have been uncomfortable with how much focus this is getting, and they want to focus on what's happening with the war in Gaza and their efforts to broker a ceasefire there or the U.S. Military base that is here in that relationship. This has kind of loomed over all of it.
[20:10:16]
COOPER: Yes, it certainly has. Kaitlan Collins, thanks very much. We'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source."
We're going to get perspective now from John Bolton, former National Security advisor in the first Trump administration and former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N.
Ambassador Bolton, the gross tonnage of all of this, the plane gift from Qatar, the Trump organizations business deals overseas, the cryptocurrency ventures. Where are you, first, where are you on this plane? How do you see this?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR IN THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: Well, I think there are a lot of things wrong with it. I think there is a serious emoluments clause argument here. The Justice Department has apparently not been able to find the problem. Let me see if I can help. What is the way this has been, put together, it's what's sometimes called a structured transaction in criminal law terms.
Each individual link may look okay, but the end result after the Department of Defense to Department of Defense transfer and after going to the libraries, Trump wants this plane to fly around on after he's no longer President. So, I have you no ways out of this --
COOPER: You have no doubt in your mind -- so you have no doubt in your mind that, I mean, he talked about it going to the library. You have no doubt it's not going to like be mothballed in the library for visitors. He would fly around on this
BOLTON: Of course not, look, if he wants an Air Force One for his library, there is one at the Ronald Reagan Library. When the current Air Force Ones are decommissioned, he can have one of them. But I would give some advice to the Qataris to get themselves out of the hole that Trump has, in part, put them in.
If it is a government to government transaction, defense to defense, I'd say take the $400 million, whatever the value of the plane is, and commit that they will build at Al Udeid Air Force Base in Qatar over and above anything they've already built or committed to, $400 million worth of upgrades to that base, build the most deeply buried, most hardened command bunker in the world.
Do whatever you can with it and if you can't spend all the money at Al Udeid, go to the Central Command headquarters in Tampa and spend a couple hundred million there. Spend it on the U.S. Special Operations Command, which is close by in Tampa. That would be a gift for the United States. Nobody could say that was personal to Donald Trump, and we could use the extra $400 million in our defense budget because Trump's budget request for the next fiscal year is not as high as it needs to be.
COOPER: From a National Security perspective, does accepting a plane from Qatar make any sense to you? I mean, just the retrofitting alone, from what I understand, not only could it take a long time and cost a lot of money, but it's incredibly, I mean, it is a huge task to make this safe for the President to fly in this plane from, even from an intelligence standpoint.
BOLTON: Well, it wouldn't matter if it was from Qatar. If it was from Great Britain, you'd have to go through the same security precautions. Now, Trump can waive all of them, but it would be a huge mistake.
The Air Force One is not a flying palace. I mean, take it as a former passenger. It's a flying office. It's the White House in the air with incredible facilities and capabilities that many of which are classified. I'm sure this is a beautiful plane, but does it have aerial refueling capabilities? Does it have secure communications?
I think the refurbishing might take as long as the rest of Trump's remaining time in office. I'm not sure he really cares about that because he doesn't necessarily want it while he's in office. He wants it after he's gone. And that's why the way this structuring of the transaction has worked is that it gives DOJ, apparently they think they've found a way around the emoluments clause. I think they're wrong. If you look at the whole thing and what the purpose in Trump's mind really is.
COOPER: Where do you stand on the change vis-a-vis Syria and its leader?
BOLTON: Well, I don't understand why it's being done this way. al- Sharaa, formerly al-Jawlani his nom de guerre when he was an al-Nusrah terrorist, may have trimmed his beard. He may have ditched his combat fatigues for a coat and tie. He's got good P.R. advice, but he has yet to take steps that I think are convincing to us that he's no longer a terrorist.
I'm glad that he's anti-Iran. That's a big negative for Iran, and we should take advantage of that. I will say that Trump did tell him to try and sign an Abraham accord, recognition of Israel and take other steps against terrorists, but hey, that's not enough. We should ask for more not just rhetoric from this tough guy, but actual performance. Trump didn't ask for it, and he didn't ask for the other commitments before he gave up the sanctions. That's not the art of the deal to me.
Now, maybe something has happened behind-the-scenes we don't know about. But if the Syrian government wanted the sanctions released, they should have at least committed to not just combating terrorism or recognizing Israel, but providing a full, total, complete evaluation of what the Assad regime did with American hostages and other foreign hostages.
They're not the Assad regime. There's no reason to cover that up. They should open up their facilities for inspection by the U.S. or international authorities on the Assad regime's chemical weapons operations and biological weapons efforts to make sure none of that is still going on. They should commit not to allow the Turks to have undue influence in Northern Syria.
And frankly, they should kick the Russians out of the Tardis Naval Base and the airbase nearby in Latakia Province. If they performed, if they did those things, then I could see lifting the sanctions. But not now.
[20:15:56]
COOPER: Ambassador John Bolton, thank you, appreciate it.
Coming up next, Harry Enten on what the public makes of the Presidents plane envy and how a Democratic senator and former Army helicopter pilot see it.
Later, a kidnapping attempt and a pregnant mother with a two-year old son who narrowly managed to escape, caught on video.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:46]
COOPER: We're talking tonight about the Qatari 747 the President says he wants now, in which Qatar's Prime Minister today would not be part of some said was not be some part of some quid pro quo. It would be, he said, coming out of love, again, his words. As for what the American public thinks. CNN's chief data analyst Harry Enten has been looking into that. So, how much traction has this plane story gotten?
HARRY ENTEN CNN, CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know, one of the fastest ways we can judge what the public is thinking is looking at the Google trends, what's trending alongside Donald Trump's name. And you know what the number one and number two are number one's Qatar number two is Airplane. It knocked tariffs right out.
COOPER: You said Qatar?
ENTEN: Qatar, Qatar whatever works for me.
COOPER: I've heard many different pronunciations.
ENTEN: Yes, there are many different pronunciations. But the bottom line is the public is very interested in this story. I think there's some questions sometimes to something breakthrough in the public. But this story absolutely has.
COOPER: Historically, how have Americans viewed Qatar?
ENTEN: Yes, so I think it's very interesting to note a few things. You know, basically corruption -- potential corruption in Qatar as well. So, let's take those one at a time, right, we could talk about the corruption first.
Okay, so what are we talking about here in terms of -- do Americans think that Donald Trump has historically been corrupt in the past, behave corruptly. Look at this 61percent of Americans have historically said that Trump, in fact, behaves corruptly in the past, this has been in poll after poll after poll, in which the majority of Americans or registered voters have said that Trump, in fact behaves corruptly. Now, of course, now you put it together with Qatar, right? And you say, okay, how do Americans feel about Qatar? And this is so interesting to me, the net favorability rating on Qatar among Americans. Look at this, it is negative overall. It is negative among Democrats. It's a negative among Independents. It's negative among Independents.
And I think the thing that's so interesting here is Trump decides to make deals with countries that Americans don't like, while he tosses our allies, like Canada, off the side of the boat.
So to me, I just go to myself. What type of politics is this that Donald Trump is practicing? It's not the type of politics that Americans like. And I think part of the reason why his overall net approval rating has been negative since the last month.
COOPER: All right, Harry Enten, thanks very much --
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: -- for looking at the numbers. Perspective now from Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth. She sits on the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committee. We spoke shortly before air.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Senator, you and at least ten other Democratic senators have signed a letter for Defense Secretary Hegseth and the Air Force Secretary asking for details on the cost of retrofitting this, this plane from Qatar, how long it will take, the counterintelligence risks involved and how they're going to mitigate them. Do you think you're actually going to get any straight answers on this?
SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): Well, I wanted to be sure to be on the record on -- for the American people to understand exactly what it's going to take to make this aircraft operationally ready to fly the President of the United States. I hope that we'll get some answers from them. We're going to continue to push to make sure that they do. I'd like to get some Republican colleagues on board, and maybe if that happens, we'll get some answers.
But frankly, it can be a counterintelligence risk. It can be an operational risk to accept an aircraft from a foreign government.
COOPER: I mean, he's saying this is a $400-million free gift. In this letter, you're saying this could cost as much as a billion dollars to get up to presidential standards and safety requirements and counterintelligence standards?
DUCKWORTH: Exactly, Anderson, we have been talking to aviation experts, and they're saying in order to strip the aircraft down to the level, it would need to be stripped to make sure that there are no counterintelligence gathering devices that have been planted on board. But then also to make sure that we harden the aircraft to air force one standards, it could cost $1 billion. So, this is no by no means a fair gift. And by the way, the American people are already paying for Air Force Ones to be built.
COOPER: And so, you know, this is going to end up costing us a lot more money. David Axelrod said the other night that this plane is a bribe, full stop. Do you agree with that?
DUCKWORTH: Absolutely, this is absolutely a bribe of Donald Trump and he's shown that he can be bought. And frankly, it's shameful that the President of the United States would accept a gift from any nation that is of at this magnitude in order to curry favor with him.
COOPER: If the President were to just to say, look, I don't want to wait two years for this to be retrofitted. I don't want to spend -- that have that money spent. I'm just going to be able -- I'm just going to fly in as Air Force One as quickly as possible. Would that happen? Could that happen? Is there anything Congress could do about that?
DUCKWORTH: Well, I guess it could happen. I mean, this President is not listening to Congress. The only way it could happen is if my Republican colleagues would step up and grow a backbone and stand up to this administration, we could probably prevent him from doing it. But right now he could probably fly in this, but again, it would be dangerous because we would not know that it was hardened enough to fly the President of the United States.
[20:25:23]
We would not know that there were not devices on there to gather intelligence against the United States. And by the way, he wants her at the end of this, gift this aircraft to his own Presidential Library, so the American people would still be out and Air Force One. This is not a cost savings. In fact, this is sticking the American people with at least a billion dollars in additional costs.
COOPER: Yes, I have not heard any really actual justification for him for actually taking the plane once he would leave the White House. I mean, even if you accept that. Okay, fine, he's going to take the plane. Why wouldn't that stay with the Pentagon or for the next President?
DUCKWORTH: It should stay with the Pentagon. If it becomes Air Force One, then it belongs to the American people. And it's not his decision whether or not he can give it to his own Presidential Library. That's not how this works.
COOPER: And just lastly, the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, she's fired the two top career officials leading the National Intelligence Council, which is an analytical group whose role is to assess the biggest National Security threats facing the U.S.
According to a DNI spokesperson. The director is working alongside President Trump to end the weaponization and politicization of the intelligence community. Is this related, do you think, to some leaks that occurred? What do you how do you interpret this?
DUCKWORTH: Well, that's what she's saying. But frankly, if anybody is politicizing and weaponizing, a political appointments, it's her -- it's the Trump administration. They're the ones that are anytime somebody speaks up against their political strategies or speaks up for the truth, they get walked out of the building. We just had that happen with the acting FEMA director, somebody that Trump had appointed -- got walked out when he responded to in a hearing that, you know, what we probably shouldn't get rid of and abolish FEMA.
Now, what we're seeing is a gutting of our intelligence apparatus. You've got somebody who's unqualified for her job in Tulsi Gabbard, and now she's getting rid of some of the most capable people, career professionals that are well respected within the intelligence community. And we're going to be putting Americans at risk. We're going to put our troops in harms' way, at risk, because we're not going to have the intelligence gathering expertise available the way we did if those two individuals could stay.
COOPER: Senator Tammy Duckworth, thank you.
DUCKWORTH: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: There's much more ahead tonight, including what the President is now saying about the White Afrikaners he's allowing into the country as refugees and why -- what he's saying about genocide is simply not true.
Also, a woman's escape from kidnappers caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Video of a woman being kidnapped.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:22]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CO-HOST OF "ANDERSON COOPER 360": A brazen attempted kidnapping all captured on video in Paris, the victim is a daughter of a crypto currency executive, her partner, and their two- year-old son. Four masked men armed with guns are seen attacking them on the street in broad daylight. You can see here the daughter who is pregnant fighting back against her would-be abductors. There's a van waiting to take them away. She stripped one of the attackers of his gun, threw it into the street. As the screams started to attract attention, people on the street jumped in to intervene. Eventually, the attackers gave up. They jumped in their getaway van and they drove away. The victims sustained light injuries and French authorities say they have opened an investigation into the incident.
An update on the only refugees the Trump administration has allowed into the United States since taking office. They're from Africa, but they're not from Sudan where fighting between warring factions has killed an estimated 150,000 people and displaced more than 11 million. One faction there has, according to the U.S., committed genocide.
But, Sudanese have not been welcomed as refugees by the Trump administration, nor has anyone from the Democratic Republic of Congo, where there are well-documented numerous cases of sexual violence against women in Eastern Congo amidst fighting between the government and the militia called M-23. Refugees from Eastern Congo are not welcome here. As far as we can tell, no black Africans have been given refugee status since President Trump's inauguration day when he signed an executive order effectively shutting down the refugee program.
But on Monday, the first group of white Africans were welcomed here. This is them, they are Afrikaners, descendants of Dutch and other settlers to South Africa. Now, Afrikaners created the racist apartheid regime that brutally suppressed and controlled the black population of South Africa until 1994 when black South Africans were allowed to vote for the very first time. The president was asked why he chose to give special treatment to Afrikaners of all people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Because they're being killed and we don't want to see people being killed. It's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't want to write about, but it's a terrible thing that's taking place, and farmers are being killed. They happen to be white, but whether they're white or black makes no difference to me. But white farmers are being brutally killed and their land is being confiscated in South Africa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, keeping them honest, there is not a genocide of white farmers in South Africa. There just isn't. That idea has been debunked by a number of organizations both inside and outside the country. Here's what is true. Crime is a huge issue in South Africa. The country has more than 20,000 homicides a year.
[20:35:00]
An Afrikaner group that counts farmer attacks recorded 49 farm homicides in 2023. And experts say that both white and black farmers are targeted.
I personally know a white landowner who was murdered years ago on his farm, but it was a crime. It was not a genocide. As far as farmland being confiscated, last year, South Africa passed a law which allows the government to seize land without payment in some cases, and redistribute it if it's found to be just and equitable and in the public interest. Now, supporters say it was an attempt to right the wrongs of apartheid, which saw land confiscated from blacks by Afrikaners.
30 years after apartheid, black South Africans are over 80 percent of the population, but still only own 4 percent of private land. Now, whatever you might think of that law, whether you support it or not, the South African government says they haven't actually seized anyone's land yet and at least not yet. The president says it's a genocide and that's not true. And that falsehood is what has predicated Afrikaners getting fast-track status to America over the millions of people across the globe facing political or religious persecution or any number of other circumstances, which would qualify them for refugee status.
Now, the Refugee Resettlement Agency, which is run by the Episcopal Church here in the U.S., which has been helping refugees coming here for nearly 40 years, they're now refusing to participate in the resettlement of these Afrikaners. In a letter explaining the decision, the Presiding Bishop Sean Rowe, who I'll speak to in a moment, wrote this. In light of our church's steadfast commitment to racial justice and reconciliation, and our historic ties with the Anglican Church of Southern Africa, we are not able to take this step.
He went on to say in his letter, it has been painful to watch one group of refugees selected in a highly unusual manner receive preferential treatment over many others who've been waiting in refugee camps or dangerous conditions for years. In reaction to the church's decision, Vice President Vance posted an article about it with one word, Crazy.
Joining me now is Bishop Sean Rowe. Bishop Rowe, appreciate you being with us. Is what you did crazy?
REV. SEAN ROWE, PRESIDING BISHOP, THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH: Well, I don't think so. I think it's principled and it was the decision that we needed to make. We think it was the moral decision. And in fact, not only is it not crazy, it is -- the reality is that we can't be ourselves as the church, as the people that Jesus has called us to, which is the most vulnerable and take the step of resettling white Afrikaners from South Africa. We're told to care for the poor and the vulnerable, and we're going to follow -- we're going to follow that. And I don't think that's crazy. I think it's principled.
COOPER: In a statement, the White House said in part that the Episcopal Church's decision "raises serious questions about its supposed commitment to humanitarian aid." And they said that the refugee resettlement should be about need, not politics. What do you say to that?
ROWE: Oh, I agree. It should be about need. And as you've reported, look at the thousands of people fleeing war and violence, people who are waking up dead around the world. People who have helped our military that are being left in camps on a daily basis while white Afrikaners have been fast-tracked? You're right, it is about need. And if you look at this decision, this is really about people who have jumped the line. When you look at the fact that the entire refugee resettlement as a program in the United States has been totally gutted, that almost no refugees have been admitted since January, and the only ones that are being admitted are white Afrikaners. I don't know what that says, but we can't be a part of that.
COOPER: It's interesting because part of what President Trump has mentioned about refugees coming here is about the ability to assimilate. I know Sudanese refugees, I was in Kakuma in northern Kenya 30 years ago in refugee camps. I've met Sudanese, boys who had been child soldiers who became refugees, who are living in Arizona right now and are doing well, and are American citizens and are proud of it. What, in your experience, have you seen about the ability to assimilate from the refugees you have helped, who have come from all over the world?
ROWE: Well, these new Americans that we've helped for the last 40 years have become a part of our society. They've integrated in profound and deep ways. The Sudanese, the diaspora, as a significant part of the Episcopal Church, look, this claim, if we're talking about people who can assimilate, what are we then saying? Only white Afrikaners can assimilate? Only white people can assimilate into the United States? I don't believe that. I don't think that's what this is about. This really needs to be about need around the world.
COOPER: And there are a lot -- and there are a lot of people in refugee camps, some of whom had been approved from the last administration who were ready to get on planes. And that's just been shut down.
ROWE: We had people waiting on airplanes. We had people who have helped our country that have been translators for our military, that have been patriots for this country, that are waiting in camps while white Afrikaners are being let in on a fast track.
[20:40:14]
We just -- we feel like that as a moral matter, we can't participate in.
COOPER: Bishop Sean Rowe, appreciate your time. Thanks for being with us.
ROWE: Thank you.
COOPER: Up next, we have some breaking news. Sean "Diddy" Combs' ex- girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, back on the stand in his federal trial, delivering explicit testimony. Our Laura Coates was there. She joins us shortly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:23]
COOPER: We have breaking news in the federal sex trafficking trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. Prosecutors have finished direct examination of Combs' ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura. At one point today, Ms. Ventura became tearful, describing how alleged abuse at the hands of Combs nearly led to her suicide. Also today, prosecutors showed the jury explicit photos of the alleged drug and sex filled so-called freak offs. Combs has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
Back with us tonight is Anchor and Chief Legal Analyst, Laura Coates, and Criminal Defense Attorney Arthur Aidala. Is it -- how -- was it clear? I mean, how did the jury react to all this? What was it like? LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, there was one point in time when a juror touched her chest and took a deep breath when she saw the still photos of these purported freak offs, as they were called. Another, a male juror, looked quickly and then darted his eyes away. Another was taking notes as well.
COOPER: So, they were shown still images?
COATES: They were shown just images. This was -- and this was not to the public by the way. This was one of the fights they had, one of the days of the early discussions about what -- how they're going to approach the explicit nature and graphic nature of it. There was a binder that was shown. Diddy -- Sean "Diddy" Combs had the binder. He was kind of hunched over looking through the images and then didn't have much more interest and setting them aside.
But this was what Cassie had feared most of all. She did not want anyone to see what Diddy was purported to save, iPads full of skeletons. This was her fear to have it exposed and there it was for the jurors to see. And it was graphic. We knew what they were talking about. They described these freak offs. And then she talked about what was in them, corroborating testimony of somebody who was a sex worker talking about it before. Candles in the room, different lubricants visible, the lighting that was seen as well. It was all there for these jurors to see.
COOPER: Arthur, how damaging was it do you think?
ARTHUR AIDALA, NEW YORK CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, I don't think that part of the corroboration is so damaging to the defense. Their defense is not that it didn't happen; it's that everybody was OK with it happening. I think the damaging part is she talks about an experience, I believe, on a plane coming back from Cannes, the film festival, where he sits next to her even though she tries to move seats and shows her videos that she thought were deleted on his computer of these freak offs.
And she said, oh my God, he's blackmailing me, telling me if I go to the police, if I open my mouth, he's going to show these things out, which will ruin my life because they're so explicitly horrible. On the flip side, she talks about the two of them going to dinner together, making love together. The nature of their relationship was loving and caring. She said, I think at one point something like, I couldn't quit him. Our relationship was so close. It wasn't easy to break apart. Obviously, that's what the defense has to highlight tomorrow.
COATES: Yeah. They also described that she says that he raped her and that she also had consensual sex afterwards. They also had a moment when she was describing how, when she got word that someone knew about videos in the ether, she told Sean "Diddy" Combs while they were still together. And he too was surprised and then had security go to try to intimidate this person to find out what they knew and when. So there was a little bit of two discussions, one on which she was fearful and the other where he had people who he was trying to contain it and saying to her, don't let that person out of your sight. Make sure he knows, this is your life we're talking about. So, there's a little bit of interesting notion of was he threatening her and coercing and intimidating, or was he too also protective to keep the blackmail for other reasons?
AIDALA: Tomorrow, they just have to come out of the box. I'm assuming --
COOPER: Is she still on the stand tomorrow?
AIDALA: She's on the stand, I believe. I should have checked, I'm sorry, because I know Mark Agnifilo, he's the lead lawyer. I'm assuming he's doing this cross-examination.
COATES: It will be a woman during the cross-examination.
AIDALA: It is, it's not Mark.
COATES: And cross will happen tomorrow.
AIDALA: OK. If I'm starting off as the defense attorney, I am leading off with as much evidence that we have about all the positive things of their relationship. Here's a picture of you and Sean in Cannes. Here's a picture of you and Sean on the Empire State Building. Here's the car he bought you. Here's the yacht he bought you. Here's the plane he bought you. Let's talk about your contract. When you met him, you were worth $100,000. Now, you're worth $50 million, not based on the lawsuit against him, but based on your music career.
You did this with him. You went there with him. He took care of this, all the positive parts of the relationship, and obviously focusing on 11 years they were together, 11 years, and you -- all the opportunities you had to leave, all the opportunities you had to get out of this --
COOPER: There is a danger though in --
COATES: There is.
COOPER: -- going after her.
COATES: There is a danger not only for the optics, for victim blaming, but also because some ideas of, well, why did you stay can be read as very archaic to some jurors in thinking you don't know anything about why people and the whole reason that they do so. But I'll tell you, she was very emotional today.
[20:50:00]
In fact, she was reflective in a way that she hadn't been before. At different points in time, she would say, I can't believe I did that, or I can't believe I experienced that. Talking about the physical toll, the hell it took on her body, speaking about infections that couldn't be cured by antibiotics that no longer worked, talking about having to take days to recover. Talking about even a Father's Day text where she talked about her love for him and that she wished they could have a baby of their own. And you could see sort of the juror is watching this woman in real time in this moment, reflecting on the breadth of what had happened.
COOPER: Laura Coates, Arthur Aidala, thanks very much.
AIDALA: Thanks so much.
COOPER: Appreciate it. Don't miss the special edition, Laura Coates live at 11:00 p.m. Eastern focused on the Diddy trial. Next on 360, Health and Human Services Secretary Kennedy on Capitol Hill and the moment that's getting a lot of attention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: You know, what I would say is my opinions about vaccines are irrelevant, but I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice from me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:35]
COOPER: With the nation's measles outbreak growing, Health and Human Services Secretary and longtime vaccine skeptic, Robert F. Kennedy, was on Capitol Hill today taking questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had a child today, would you vaccinate that child for measles?
KENNEDY JR.: For measles? Probably for measles. I -- what I would say is my opinions about vaccines are irrelevant. I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice, from me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the Secretary of Health and Human Services saying not to take medical advice from him. Perspective now from Dr. Peter Hotez, Co-Director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital. He's also the co-author of the upcoming book, " Science Under Siege: How to Fight the Five Most Powerful Forces that Threaten Our World." You hear the secretary saying his views on vaccines are irrelevant. Do you agree?
DR. PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: That's his job. I mean, this is not medical advice. He heads our nation's largest public health agency. We -- the taxpayers pay him to advocate for vaccines and tell Americans to get vaccinated, just like every other Health and human Services Secretary. We are in the middle of a horrific measles epidemic where I am based, in Texas. We've already had two measles deaths for the first time in years, among otherwise well kids who parents made the decision not to vaccinate them, school-aged kids. This is now moving into the panhandle from West Texas, into Oklahoma, into Kansas, into New Mexico. We actually are at risk of losing our measles elimination status. This is not medical advice. By the way, he does give medical advice. He draws this false equivalency to useless cocktail of interventions such as budesonide and vitamin A and azithromycin.
COOPER: I mean, he opines about this stuff a lot.
HOTEZ: So, he does give medical advice. Telling Americans to get vaccinated is not medical advice.
COOPER: You've spoken to Kennedy about vaccine skepticism in the past. What were the -- what were those conversations like?
HOTEZ: Well, I had a conversation with him for over a year because I have a daughter with autism and I can explain why vaccines don't cause autism. So at the request of the NIH, I would have those discussions with him and I would detail the genetics of autism, how autism genes work, an early fetal brain development. I even talked to him about environmental exposure.
So for instance, if you're pregnant and not aware of it, and on an anti-seizure medicine called Depicor (ph) or valproic acid, that medication will interact with autism genes to cause an autism phenotype. And I gave him a list of chemical exposures that he should be looking at and he had no interest in it. I said, Bobby, you should be all over this. This is your sweet spot. You're an environmental attorney.
COOPER: Why wasn't he interested?
HOTEZ: He was all of -- completely had this absolute unit dimension about focusing on vaccines. And what was -- what's really frustrating is, two weeks ago, he comes out and says that he alone is pushing, looking at environmental causes of autism, misrepresenting the medical and scientific community, saying it's all about changes on diagnostic criteria. Sure, that's responsible for a lot of it, but I detailed for him environmental exposures and it was Mr. Kennedy who had no interest in pursuing that.
COOPER: Just in terms of what is happening in the world of science and I mean to research, as somebody who cares deeply about this, what do you make of where we are at?
HOTEZ: Right now, we're going through devastating cuts to the National Institutes of Health. And Senator Bernie Sanders, yesterday, issued a report. And what's interesting is, they're selectively decimating the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, which is by far and away the largest supporter of infectious disease research. $500 million in losses compared to the next one down, which is heart, lung, and blood of $60 million. So, they're clearly targeting infectious disease research at a time when pandemic threats are already (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK) COOPER: Why would they be doing that?
HOTEZ: Well, that's the question that I wish the Senate had asked them during the Senate hearing. This is part of the playbook. He wants to downplay the severity of infectious diseases. He wants to exaggerate the effects of vaccines and he's a pandemic denialist. That's what he did with COVID, that's what he's doing with measles, saying that the hospitalizations were due to quarantine and isolation, this total BS. They were there -- those kids are there in the hospital in west Texas because they're very, very sick, including two deaths.
COOPER: And I mean, for all the cuts and we're almost out of time, but for all the cuts, I mean, you can cut these things quickly, but to get researchers back, to start these studies up --
