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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Texas Flooding Death Toll Climbs to at Least 120, 160 Plus Missing; Challenging Conditions in Search for 160 plus Missing Flood Victims; Mother and Daughter Survived Flooding on Roof; Texas Flooding Death Toll Climbs to at Least 120, More Than 160 Missing; Flash Flood Hits New Mexico Town, at Least Three Dead; Kyiv Hit With Ongoing Intensive Drone Attack; Ex-FBI Director Comey and Ex-CIA Director Brennan Are Under Investigation by Trump Justice Department. Aired 8- 9p ET

Aired July 09, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... can visit the beach resort. No westerner, certainly not even Chinese tourists, at least for now. It may be quite some time before North Korea even comes close to filling those dozens of brand new hotels designed to accommodate up to 20,000 people -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Wow, that is incredible. Well, thank you so much and thanks so much to all of you. AC360 begins now.

[20:00:30]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, as the death toll climbs, FEMA insiders tell us that internal red tape and cost cutting slowed their response to the flooding in Texas in some cases by days.

Also tonight, Vladimir Putin ramps up deadly airstrikes on Ukraine and President Trump can't say why his Defense Secretary cut off some weapons for Kyiv or even say that Hegseth or anyone else did.

Plus, they have long been targets of President Trumps anger, now, the FBI is investigating its former director and the former head of the CIA. The question is why?

Good evening, thanks for joining us.

We begin tonight in Texas Hill Country, where the slow, painstaking and awfully painful search continues for upwards of 160 people still missing five days after the flood. Crews are dealing with debris piles several stories high in places and as we heard last night, residents are being told not to try to move it on their own or burn those piles out of concern for potential victims or even survivors buried within.

One of the many out-of-state first responders helping out told CNN's Boris Sanchez today, the search will not be finished soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. MAX MCQUARRIE, VIRGINIA BEACH RESCUE TEAM, HELPING WITH SEARCH IN TEXAS: It's going to be a slow, methodical process that's going to take us, you know, days, if not weeks. You know, I think to really provide, you know, the answers that everyone's looking for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The recovery work is ongoing as well today in Central New Mexico, where flash flooding yesterday took three lives, and the video of it we're now getting looks a lot like Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my gosh, y'all look.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh no, oh no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God. Oh my gosh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God, oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, oh, my God, dude.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well as terrifying as those images are and despite the loss of three lives, everyone in the area is now accounted for tonight. No one else is reported missing. By contrast with Texas, where tonight, so many are still waiting for word on their loved ones. What happened to their child or their parent, their spouse or friend? And yes, questions, as we just mentioned, which began being asked several days ago about what might have been done differently before and after the flooding hit, have been growing.

For starters, we're learning tonight that a Texas firefighter urgently called for a Code Red alert to go out. That was at 4:22 Friday morning. According to dispatch audio obtained by CNN affiliate, KSAT, the firefighter said a local highway sign was already under water. The dispatcher responded with "Standby, we have to get that approved with our supervisor." But approval did not come for at least 90 minutes. A local sheriff says he wants answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY LEITHA, KERR COUNTY SHERIFF: I believe those questions need to be answered to the family of the missed loved ones, to the public, you know, to the people that put me in this office. We're not running, we're not going to hide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And there's this on the timelines of the federal response as well. Here's DHS Secretary Kristi Noem today at a meeting of the FEMA Review Council, which was created earlier this year to reassess the agency's future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KRISTI NOEM, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I was in Texas this weekend and was there. We were dealing and working with the individuals who are experiencing this heartbreaking tragedy and saw firsthand the devastated families, the reeling community, the leaders that are there on the ground, responding. We certainly supported that immediately on search and recovery efforts and partnered with the state and local governments to get Americans all of the resources that they need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So, according to four officials inside FEMA, that federal response may not have been as fast as it might have been. They say that a new rule that any expected expenditure over $100,000.00 needed sign off from Secretary Noem slowed the federal response. The sources tell us that FEMA's deployment of urban search and rescue teams, which are typically deployed in anticipation they might be needed instead, was delayed until Monday, three days after the flood.

Now, a source also tells us that a request Texas made for FEMA aerial imagery to aid in the search was also delayed, waiting for Secretary Noem's approval. Now, additionally, multiple FEMA officials say that they were taken aback by the agency's relatively limited response in the immediate aftermath of the disaster.

CNN has reached out to FEMA for comment. So far, no reply from the agency. However, a DHS spokeswoman more generally told CNN that FEMA is, in her words, "shifting from bloated D.C. centric dead weight to a lean, deployable disaster force that empowers state actors to provide relief for their citizens."

Now, also, we learned today that the death of another Camp Mystic camper, Virginia Wynne Naylor. She was eight years old. Her family says she had a great love of the outdoors and of God, and that she danced through the world. Tim Walker was 63 and died, according to the "Houston Chronicle" helping others survive.

William Venus was a retired 33-year-old Army veteran. His son says he was a great man whose primary goal was just helping others. Jose Olvera and Alicia Ramirez were originally from Mexico, but had lived in the area for decades. Jose was described as the heart of the ranch where he worked.

[20:05:27]

Reporters have been trying to get details from officials about the flood warnings, but in press conferences they've not answered the question and say they're focused on search and rescue. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins us now from Ingram, Texas. Shimon, you were at the news conference today. What else did officials have to say?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Look, there's a lot of questions about the preparedness and sort of the anticipation of this weather storm -- this storm. And it's not entirely clear yet what officials were doing in the days leading up to this. We know that on Thursday, a watch went out. There was already some concern from the National Weather Service so much that the state officials, the lieutenant governor, said that they had a conference call with county judges who are the leading politicians and decision makers in the counties around Texas, and local mayors, and that those officials were invited to join to talk about the weather.

However, what was interesting today was when I asked the mayor here in Kerrville, did you get on this phone call? Were you on this phone call? And he said, no, I didn't know about any phone call. It's also not entirely clear if the county judge, who is the leading political figure, the decision maker for the county, if he was on any calls.

And also, Anderson, significant is -- there is an emergency coordinator, kind of like an OEM Office of Emergency Management for the county. It's not entirely clear if he was on the call, if he was briefing anyone on the potential weather conditions that could affect this.

But also, Anderson, I finally today, you know, I've been with officials at the emergency ops center. I finally made my way down to some of the destruction in Ingram. And I'm not -- in talking to people here. I'm not even entirely clear that anything would have changed their minds about leaving, even if officials were stressing that they needed to leave, because what's so interesting is that many of them say this area floods all the time. And when you talk to them about some of the flash flood warnings, they say, okay, so what this happens all the time here.

Because look, here's what happens, Anderson. This is the river here, the Guadalupe River. This isn't even -- like, this is the overflow from some of the storm damage, obviously, you're seeing. But just here, past the water here, there is an island and that is where the R.V.s -- this is where in an R.V. park. That's where the R.V.s would park. And so when all the rescues started, when everything started happening, they had to come all the way across this to try and get out and many of them did not make it out. And even with the potential weather, the terrible weather that that was looming here, many of them were not that concerned. They were sort of like, okay, we're on the river. This happens all the time.

So, that's another question here that, you know, folks need to answer and sort of understand perhaps, is was there fatigue from all the warnings. And so, that could have lent itself to the issue for why people didn't take this as seriously as they should? And those are all questions that officials say they're going to try to answer at some point.

COOPER: Shimon, appreciate it -- Shimon Prokupecz.

CNN's Ed Lavandera has seen some of the worst, the destruction along the Guadalupe River and some of the best in the people who are doing all they can to help in the search and recovery effort and it is difficult and painstaking work. Here's his report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Guadalupe River has turned into a graveyard of despair. The river stretches for roughly 35 miles through Kerr County alone, and most of it is now a daunting search area for the missing, which brought us to this riverfront spot along Rowland Road under cypress trees, this was once the home to popular R.V. parks. The river took families into its grip and didn't let go.

LORENA GUILLEN, RESCUED PEOPLE FROM FLOODS: Dozens of vehicles just getting washed away. You can see the windows of the campers with people banging against the windows and the screams. The screams is what haunts me every time I close my eyes.

LAVANDERA (voice over): Lorena Guillen said the cars and cabins would get sucked into the water and the screaming would stop.

LAVANDERA (on camera): This is what the search for victims in the Guadalupe River flooding has come to. We're downstream from where there was an R.V. park. Hundreds of people filled it for the July 4th weekend. The trailers and cars were swept away and mangled it all, rushed downstream. You can see here as crews and volunteers have been trying to clean up this mess.

Several of the volunteers who are out here looking for victims have said that they're worried that many of the victims still might be submerged under water and that in many cases, they're simply finding body parts.

I know that's difficult to hear, but that is the reality of what many of these volunteers and search and rescue teams are dealing with right now.

LAVANDERA (voice over):We found Joe Regelski leading a volunteer search team, sifting through mounds of thick mud and debris on their hands and knees, looking to bring the missing home, meticulously searching the devastation with dogs trained to find human remains.

[20:10:37]

JOE REGELSKI, UPSTREAM INTERNATIONAL: You walk the banks, you got divers in the water swimming upstream. This area was riddled. First day was probably 20-plus vehicles pulled just out of this three-block stretch. So breaking windows, searching first for anything that's in there. Then a cadaver dog comes.

LAVANDERA (on camera): These people over here are looking for the missing.

REGELSKI: So this right now, we're days into this. So, there's foul odors. So you've got a lot of livestock. You got deer, you got everything else. But you also don't know if its human remains of the missing.

LAVANDERA (voice over): Officials in Central Texas are managing multiple agencies and more than 2,100 volunteers in Kerr County from across the United States and even Mexico. They're asking search teams to take a delicate approach. SGT. JONATHAN LAMB, KERRVILLE POLICE: We have large debris piles, and we asked them not to use heavy equipment to take down those debris piles until they've been checked by a search party, because it's possible there are victims in that debris pile, and we don't want to disturb that.

LAVANDERA (voice over): The rubble is piling up from roadways, homes and the immense countryside here.

LAVANDERA (on camera): This is just staggering. The river is over here, this entire bed leading up to the river was filled with water. And you look up into the into the tree limbs and you see debris. Parts of vehicles, clothing, tents, 20, 30, almost 40 feet high up in the trees gives you a sense. You can actually see in some places, you can actually see the water line about 30 feet high up into the trees here.

LAVANDERA (voice over): Trees ripped from their roots, mangled cars and trucks left submerged in the Guadalupe River's path. These search teams know a victim could be anywhere, waiting to be found.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And Ed Lavandera joins us now.

Ed, first of all, thank you for the sensitivity of your report. It's incredibly moving what you just talked about and the work that these people are doing, these volunteers, is extraordinary. And it's -- you know, you think about the weight of it that must be on them because they know there are family members, fathers, mothers, people waiting for word on their children. I mean, it's extraordinary what is happening right now.

LAVANDERA: Yes, I think that's one of the things, Anderson, that has become crystal clear here now that were so many days removed from this horrific moment, is that there are 200 miles of Guadalupe River from Kerr County all the way east that is being searched right now and the gravity of that moment and what these people are discovering in painstaking ways. And then the realization that this is a process, Anderson, that could very well take days, if not weeks to complete. And everyone here talking about how they will not finish this work until every single person who is missing is found and returned to their loved ones -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, and of course, you know, there's questions about response and what could have been done and what should have been done, et cetera and all that's important -- to make sure this doesn't happen again, if that's even possible, to make sure. But I just think it's so important to remember that these searches are ongoing and a lot of people may move off this story, but it's not a story. This is life and death for so many families and I really appreciate you being there, thank you.

My next guest is Wynne Kennedy with deep roots in this community. Her 10-year-old daughter, Lucy, was at Camp Mystic during the flood on July 4th. Thankfully, she managed to survive. She was airlifted to safety after many terrifying hours. Their home, which sits on the Guadalupe River, was destroyed by the catastrophic flooding. Wynne, herself went to Camp Mystic for nine summers worked there for four. She joins us now.

Wynne, thank you for being with us. I'm glad you and your family are safe. I know your heart is breaking for so many others who are still waiting for word. Can you just walk us through what Lucy went through at Camp Mystic that night?

WYNNE KENNEDY, TEXAS FLOOD SURVIVOR: Thanks for having me, Anderson. Yes, she told me that her whole cabin woke up around, I guess 12:30 or 1:00 A.M. to just loud crashes of thunder and then her counselors. It was just raining a little bit at that point. So the counselors had them settle down and go back to sleep.

But Lucy stayed awake because she just said she had a gut feeling that something was wrong. And I believe around 2:00 A.M. they heard people, you know, knocking on cabin doors just saying to grab, you know, grab a flashlight, water bottle if you can get a blanket and get together and all go to Rec Hall, which is where it's kind of the auditorium performances are put on at camp.

[20:15:39]

They have a loft inside of Rec Hall that is on the second story. So, the girls could get to higher ground and sit above Rec Hall. So, she and her cabin mates and counselors just all stayed -- stuck together do the buddy system and just got there. In as much of an organized fashion as they could, you know, at that time, she said the water was probably up to her calves.

And so, they just got up there quickly and they all got on to that loft, you know, just sitting on each other's laps and waiting until -- they waited there probably until, I guess, the sun rose and waited for the water to recede. Then at that time, they were able to leave Rec Hall and walk over to Camp Mystic's Cypress Lake Camp that opened a couple of years ago. It's on a higher ground, so they had plenty of water, food and shelter. And then from there they waited to, you know, for plans while people were searching and waited to evacuate them.

COOPER: First of all, how is she doing now, having had this experience? And I know you have a son as well who he and his dad, your husband, had to leave your home, which has been destroyed.

KENNEDY: That's correct, I mean, she is really strong. Her instincts and all of those girls' instincts. I mean, I just they're wise beyond their years. I just can't even imagine, you know, she does have her moments. She witnessed things that I would never even fathom witnessing in my entire life. She gets very emotional.

COOPER: She heard a friend of hers getting swept away.

KENNEDY: Yes, that's correct and -- but it was so dark, you know, the only time you could really see they had their flashlights but again, running and -- but she couldn't see any direction, you know, so they just kept running forward and so she gets very emotional, especially for that friend. But we've been very open in discussing it. Sometimes she wants to watch the news and talk about it. Sometimes she says, mom, please turn that off. But she's speaking with her cabin mates and a lot of camp friends on a daily basis, and we're all kind of just trying, the moms and I from her cabin are, you know, have been on a text thread for three years since our girls started together, and we're just all trying to, you know, be there and get advice. And Camp Mystic also has a great, just a great network of therapists and child psychologists and a lot of them were Mystic Campers themselves.

So, we've had a really neat therapist who's done Zooms for the parents to kind of give us advice on how to approach these subjects with the girls, and she's also meeting with her school counselor, she did on Sunday, and she is going again tomorrow. They have a very close relationship, so were just, you know, trying to be open and honest and just be there and pray.

And she wants to help and my son is the same way. They want to get out there and do their part and clean up. And my son was very scared. He was just so happy. His sister was okay, but he was able -- he kind of was the sheriff of the animals and helped my husband get, you know, our dogs and cats out safely. And were just so lucky and fortunate and I just, I just can't even -- I just am counting my blessings.

COOPER: Yes and I know your daughter gave her Crocs to somebody else who didn't have shoes.

KENNEDY: She sure did.

COOPER: Yes, and I can hear the emotion in your voice and it's not just about your family. I know it's about all the other families as well and it's about this camp. Can you can you just talk a little bit about -- I mean, everybody I've talked to in the last couple of days have just -- this camp is more than just like a place you send your kids. This is something -- it sounds like a really remarkable and special place.

KENNEDY: Thank you, it absolutely is. It's -- I feel like what shaped me to be the woman that I am today, I learned how to--

COOPER: I heard you learned change tires. Is that true?

KENNEDY: I sure did, and it was in a class called Beauty Inside and Out, which is kind of funny. The Mary Kay lady would come and teach us how to do skincare, but also we learned, you know, wonderful life skills and learned how to be self-sufficient.

Ag Stacy, who is the founder of Mystic, she, you know, we were -- they taught us how to have great manners and do things like that. But she wanted to teach us how self-sufficient. And that was always been Mystic's ideals are about just becoming a better person for being here and treating others, being there, treating others the way that you want to be treated. Excuse me, sorry. And it's just about shaping well-rounded individuals.

[20:20:38] And honestly, I left for college, I feel like my years at Mystic were more beneficial for me as a grown up and adult, and how I was able to get the jobs that I've been fortunate enough to have and make the friendships that I've been able to have that are lifelong friendships that I'm still -- Mystic is family, the Eastlands are family to us, and it's just -- it's so hard to explain if you're not there. But, you know, I was employed, I have to say. I was there for nine summers, but I was a counselor but when we moved to this area and we moved because of Mystic, I wanted to be closer.

I just have to say that we lived at Mystic. My whole family, my children, my husband in 2022, and I worked in the office and just --

COOPER: I'm sorry. Her family has a GoFundMe page set up that will try to put the address on the screen. That's for Wynne Kennedy. We appreciate her time and glad her family is safe.

For more information about how you can help all the flood victims, you can go to cnn.com/impact. There's a lot of information about organizations doing good work right now.

Coming up next, a local store owner who managed to survive the flooding along with her daughter from on top of the store she runs.

Plus, echoes of Texas in New Mexico. A report from the flood zone there, and the dozens of swift water rescues that kept the death toll from being far worse. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:26:35]

COOPER: Welcome back.

For years, the Hunt Store served the community of Hunt, Texas as more than just a place to buy groceries. It was also a local hangout, a restaurant and music venue, part of the community. People would gather there at all hours of the day. Part of the structure remains standing, despite being heavily damaged in the catastrophic flooding last weekend.

Out front, the sign now reads Hunt Strong. My next guest is general manager, lived in an apartment above the store with their daughter. They escaped to the roof where they were able to ride out the worst of the flooding.

Their home on the second floor was lost when the roof collapsed during the storm. Courtney Garrison joins me now. Courtney, I'm glad you're here. When did you first realize that something was wrong?

COURTNEY GARRISON, GENERAL MANAGER, THE HUNT STORE: About 4:30 in the morning. The electricity went out about 3:00 A.M. and I could hear stuff underneath the store, but I had no idea that it was raining or flooding like that. I had no context for what the noise was, so I thought I was going to go downstairs and check it out, and I opened the back door to water. COOPER: And that we're showing that video right now that you shot. That's what you saw. That's incredible.

GARRISON: Yes, that's the video by the fireplace is where my daughter and I were sitting on the roof.

COOPER: So you -- how old is your daughter?

GARRISON: Ten.

COOPER: Wow. So you climbed onto the roof with your 10-year-old daughter and at a certain point, I understand you were lower on the roof, and then you realized you needed to move. How did you -- what made you move?

GARRISON: So, we actually were a little bit higher on the roof. I don't know if you all have a picture of the roof that's collapsed from the front of The Hunt Store, but you can see where it was normally up real high. And then there's a collapse. And we were sitting right where it had collapsed there for a while, but I felt it start shifting so I had her move and I moved over where I knew there was more support because I knew it was like the front of the store was going to be right below us, right there.

COOPER: And so, the spot you were in, you moved and it ended up collapsing in that spot?

GARRISON: Yes.

COOPER: Wow.

GARRISON: It collapsed a little bit underneath us while we were up there and then once we moved, it really started shifting.

COOPER: You could you could feel it beneath you moving or shifting, that's terrifying.

GARRISON: Yes, it was terrifying.

COOPER: Did you see anyone else around at that point?

GARRISON: One of the local cops had come down and he was talking to us on his bullhorn. I couldn't really understand everything he was saying, but I knew he was there. We knew, you know, he knew we were there. So, that made me feel better. But even though he was there, nobody could still get to us for a couple hours after that.

COOPER: And I think it was finally some neighbors came with a ladder and you're able to get down. I'm so glad that you are okay and I'm so sorry for what you've gone through. I hope you -- are you able to rebuild?

GARRISON: The store is going to be rebuilt, absolutely. We have one of the strongest communities I've ever seen come together. It's going to -- make me cry, I'm sorry. It's been absolutely amazing. The support and I know that it's going to be rebuilt and its going to be better. COOPER: And I know it's not just a store. It's a gathering place and it's woven into the fabric of this community from everything I read and been told. And I'm so glad that you'll be able to keep it going. Courtney Garrison, thank you so much for talking to us.

GARRISON: Absolutely, thank you.

[20:30:44]

COOPER: We showed you some of this, the top of the broadcast, the flash flooding that hit a popular summer retreat area in New Mexico, Sierra Blanca Mountain Range. Sadly, three people have died. Luckily, rescuers saved many more lives. CNN's Natasha Chen has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These terrifying images emerged in New Mexico as the Rio Ruidoso swelled from under two feet to over 20 feet in less than one hour. It came on the heels of devastatingly deadly floods in Texas. This one claimed at least three lives, including two children.

CHIEF STEVEN MINNER, RUIDOSO POLICE: All three victims were reported missing from the same area, which was an RV park, and they were all found down river, anywhere from a quarter mile to two miles downriver.

CHEN (voice-over): Emergency crews made dozens of swift water rescues. Businesses like this trading post were destroyed. Katelyn Carpenter was on her motorcycle and says she pulled over to take shelter when the intense downpour started.

KAITLYN CARPENTER, FLOODING WITNESS: It kind of just went from bad to worse. The flood started and then a really big flood just came like a wall of flood.

Oh my gosh. Oh no.

CHEN (voice-over): She started filming the devastation, then saw a close friend's house being whisked away by the rushing river.

CARPENTER: She's actually out of town right now, so it was kind of heartbreaking to be filming and then to see my best friend's house that I have memories in.

CHEN (voice-over): The catastrophic flooding occurred in an area scorched by wildfires last summer.

CARPENTER: There's no trees anymore to soak up all the water running off of the mountain.

CHEN (voice-over): Since June of last year, there have been at least 12 separate flash flood emergencies like this one in the area, putting residents in extreme swings from fires to floods.

CARPENTER: It just got worse because there's nothing to soak up any of the water. CHEN (voice-over): Natasha Chen, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Just incredible images there. We have breaking news ahead. A new and especially intense wave of drone strikes on Ukraine. That and what the president said today about those delayed shipments of weapons to Kyiv. And later, why the FBI is now investigating two men the president has long targeted with former Director James Comey and former CIA Director John Brennan. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:37:29]

COOPER: Breaking News on the war in Ukraine. Intensive drone attacks are ongoing in Kyiv. That's according to a CNN producer on the ground, now, as the country continues to fight for its survival. President Trump earlier today was asked about weapon shipments from the U.S. to Ukraine that were paused last week. And as five sources tell us, it was authorized by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, but the White House was not informed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday, you said that you were not sure who ordered the munitions, halted to Ukraine. Have you since been able to figure that out?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I haven't thought about it because we're looking at Ukraine right now and munitions, but I have no -- I have not gone into it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does it say that such a big decision could be made inside your government without you knowing?

TRUMP: I would know if a decision was made. I will know. I'll be the first to know. In fact, most likely I'd give the order, but I haven't done that yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Also today, Senate Majority Leader John Thune announced that work could begin on a bipartisan Russian sanctions bill before the August recess. Joining us now to discuss it all is Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts. Congressman, the president's answer there was somewhat confusing. It doesn't seem clear to me, certainly, and maybe I missed something, how a decision like that would be made and the president not knowing that?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, (D-MA): Anderson, good evening. Like a deer in the headlights, right? And that's been this administration regarding Russia for the last six months, constantly on its back foot, constantly posturing weakness, when the only thing that works against the Kremlin is strength. And that strength starts with a clear statement about how to define victory. I've been saying this for two years. I said it to the Biden administration. I'm saying it to the Trump administration.

You need to stand with the president of Ukraine and your NATO allies, and define what victory looks like. It looks like a secure eastern border. It looks like freedom of navigation in the Black Sea. And it looks like accession to the European Union. Until you define winning, how are you going to draw a path to get there?

COOPER: It's got to be difficult for Ukrainian forces to not know what supply lines they have, what their supply lines are going to be from the U.S., not just this week --

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes.

COOPER: -- but a month from now or two months from now, if they want to try to plan anything, a defense of their territory.

[20:40:00]

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes. And this is why it is imperative that the United States and our European Union allies agree to take the EUR 300 billion of frozen Russian assets held in Brussels and give it to the Ukrainians to build out their own military industrial complex, working with the Estonians, the Poles, the Fins, the Germans, all of whom are ready to invest in Western Ukraine, so that the armaments, the explosives, and the logistics support that Ukraine needs for long-term defense are organically supplied as opposed to them relying on these long supply chains.

COOPER: Do you believe that President Trump genuinely wants Ukraine to be able to fend off, if not outright defeat the Russians? Or do you think this is more because he seems frustrated with Vladimir Putin and disappointed that his efforts to bring some sort of peace agreement have not been picked up by Vladimir Putin?

AUCHINCLOSS: If President Trump is serious about putting the United States in a superior position to the axis of autocrats -- China, Iran, Russia -- then he has to demonstrate strength in Ukraine. They have struck a blow against Iran working with our ally Israel by laying Iran naked aerially to Israel's military power. They are working to try to improve our Indo-Pacific posture with increased investments in our Navy. But if we don't demonstrate strength against Russia, we are signaling weakness that undercuts any advances we have made in either the Middle East against Iran or in the Indo-Pacific against China.

So, that's my pitch to this administration. I've long since, Anderson, given up on trying to convince this administration that besting Russia on behalf of Ukraine is just the right thing to do, but there is a strategic posture here against this axis of authoritarians.

COOPER: Congressman Jake Auchincloss, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, why the Trump Justice Department is now investigating former FBI Director James Comey and former CIA Director John Brennan. And later, marking 40 years since a remarkable global music event and humanitarian effort "Live Aid." (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:46:54]

COOPER: What's old is new again tonight as two of President Trump's most frequent targets during his first term are now set to be under investigation by the Justice Department. Officials are reportedly looking into whether former CIA Director John Brennan and former FBI Director James Comey made false statements to Congress about the Intelligence Community's 2016 assessment of Russia's attempts to interfere with that year's election.

According to a person briefed on the matter, current CIA Director John Ratcliffe referred the two former officials for investigation after releasing a review that's critical of the assessment, which concluded that Russia tried to intervene in the 2016 election on Mr. Trump's behalf. While Ratcliffe's review didn't dispute the intelligence community's core judgment that Vladimir Putin preferred then candidate Trump over Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, he argued the assessment was conducted through a corrupt process under the "politically charged environments of Brennan and Comey."

Now, it's unclear what stage the probe may be in, but Brennan said he hasn't been contacted by the FBI, DOJ or CIA, and slammed the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: This is, unfortunately, a very sad and tragic example of the continued politicization of the intelligence community. I'm really shocked that individuals who are willing to sacrifice their reputations, their credibility, their decency to continue to do Donald Trump's bidding on something that clearly is just politically based.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the president also weighed in earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER DOOCY, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS: Do you want to see these two guys behind bars?

TRUMP: Well, I know nothing about it other than what I read today. But I will tell you, I think they're very dishonest people. I think they're crooked as hell and maybe they have to pay a price for that. I believe they are truly bad people and dishonest people. So whatever happens, happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining me now is Journalist Gretchen Carlson, Co-Founder of Lift Our Voices and former Federal Prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, is there much of any justification you think for this investigation which, again, Brennan says he's only just now learning about from the press?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, certainly, basically what's public is there is no decent basis for this investigation. And I think it's really important to point out the number of Trump's political enemies who are now under investigation by the Trump administration. I mean, it is not just these two, it's ActBlue, the Democratic fundraising organization; it's Media Matters, the media operation; Chris Krebs; Miles Taylor; the Attorney General and Governor of New Jersey, Andrew Cuomo.

He has asked for investigations of so many political enemies, and that is something that is deeply un-American in this country. And, so far, no one has been prosecuted but investigations have costs too. All these people have to hire lawyers. All these people are -- have their reputations damaged and it's going on all throughout this administration.

[20:50:00]

COOPER: Gretchen, you heard President Trump say that he doesn't know anything about this investigation. Do you -- do you buy that?

GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST AND CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: I think this is his new tactic. He did it yesterday too when they were asked about the Jeffrey Epstein situation, which somehow miraculously just disappeared in one day after they propped that up for months and months. And today, he said he didn't know anything about this. Look, this is his CIA director, his CIA director. And for the president to not know about these things would be almost impossible. And it doesn't give off necessarily a great look if you don't know about these kinds of things.

Politically though, I don't think that this is a surprise. I mean, as Jeff said, I mean Kash Patel also said, this was going to happen. They campaigned on this that there was an enemy list. But I do think that the majority of Americans, if you think about independence, for example, 43 percent of the American public, they think that this is a waste of time and resources. I mean maybe they want Trump to focus like he has on immigration and the economy, but certainly not on this.

COOPER: Jeff, do you have a sense of how an investigation like this would play out? I mean, what would the process for it be?

TOOBIN: Well, first of all, you would look at what the alleged false statements are and then you would compare that to the documentary and evidentiary record, and see if there are any false statements. But remember, the core of this apparent investigation of both Comey and -- I'm suddenly blanked on what I was saying.

COOPER: Brennan.

TOOBIN: Brennan, is that they lied about the Russia investigation. It is established and they have even acknowledged that Russia worked very hard to elect Donald Trump in 2016. Robert Mueller never proved that there was collusion, just to go back in history a bit, but the idea that Russia helped elect Donald Trump and tried to elect Donald Trump, stole Hillary Clinton's emails and her campaign's emails, that is proven. So, the idea that somehow saying that is false just seems preposterous to me.

COOPER: Gretchen, I mean, you mentioned independent voters. Do you think the president's base is as supportive of, I mean if this is retribution, this investigation, is that something you think that's popular among the base?

CARLSON: I do. This is something they campaigned on. But really we only hear that and see that through the social media influencers who are MAGA, right? And they can't even agree on a lot of these different controversies right now. But I do think it's interesting also to point out that Jim Comey is somebody who, you could argue, actually helped Trump win the election in 2016 because he's the one who started and opened the investigation back into the Hillary Clinton emails right before the election, which was not a positive thing for her.

So, I think it's interesting now that the tables have turned, I mean Trump has not liked Comey for a very long time, but one could argue that he actually helped Trump win the election the first time around.

TOOBIN: If you ask most Democrats about Jim Comey, they'll certainly agree that he was very important in Hillary Clinton's defeat.

COOPER: Yeah.

CARLSON: Yes.

COOPER: Jeff Toobin, Gretchen Carlson, thanks very much for your time. Appreciate it.

A lot more to get to tonight. Coming up next, for some of us it's hard to believe, but it's been 40 years since "Live Aid." This makes me feel very old. The global concert that raised tens of billions of dollars for famine and relief, we'll take a look at that legendary event next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:58:24]

COOPER: Well, for some of us it might be hard to imagine, but it's been 40 years ago, this Sunday, the Rock Stars Bob Geldof, Bono Sting and more performed at "Live Aid," which was a landmark music event to raise money for famine relief in Africa. CNN's Bill Weir sat down with Geldof to talk about how the legendary concert came together and how the movement continued. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB GELDOF, CO-FOUNDER, BAND AID TRUST: 95 percent of all television sets on Earth are tuned to this concert. I mean this is pure intuitive genius. The world is watching. It starts now and out come these guys, Brits, and the first thing they go is, all right. What?

(LAUGH) GELDOF: That was the moment we all talked to each other, that moment, that gig, a shared language, rock and roll, a language that was beyond language, an attitude and an idea, (inaudible) united against a common disaster that if it was allowed to happen, would've so affected the human corpus. 32 million people about to die of want in a world of surplus. No, no, to die of want in a world of surplus is not only economically illiterate, it is intellectually absurd, and it is of course morally repulsive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: "Live Aid: When Rock 'N' Roll Took on the World" premieres Sunday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN. That's it for us. The news continues. "The Source" with --