Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
The "Wall Street Journal" Reports on Letter Bearing Trump's Name Given to Epstein; WSJ Reports On Letter Bearing Trump's Name Given To Epstein; CBS Ending "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert"; Pres. Trump Diagnosed With Vein Condition. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 17, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST OF NPR'S MORNING EDITION AND UP FIRST: I am happy with your stories, sometimes I am on the las shot and I think you have to price that in as a journalist and that's especially important for us now in these divisive times. We have to tell the best story we can. We have to recognize humbly, we don't always get the whole story. So, we'll come back tomorrow and do some more and if somebody doesn't like it, we'll be prepared for that and try to do work that we can defend.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, well, you know, thank you so much, Steve, and I will say, it's seven hours until you're up and you've to still work and you've to find a way to get to bed and you'll barely sleep and you'll keep doing it again and again as you have and we're so grateful for it and thank you so much.
INSKEEP: Thanks for your great work, Erin.
BURNETT: All right, thanks to all of you for being with us, Anderson starts now.
[20:00:44]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360 with the White House facing new questions on Jeffrey Epstein. New reporting tonight from "The Wall Street Journal," which the President denies that he sent Epstein a sexually suggestive letter for Epstein's 50th birthday.
Also tonight, Stephen Colbert, one of the harshest critics of President Trump and late night is getting canceled by CBS.
And later, you may have seen the President's swollen ankles. Now the White House announces what they say is causing it. Dr. Sanjay Gupta gives us his take tonight.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with breaking news. Just before air time, "The Wall Street Journal" published a piece with this striking headline, Jeffrey Epstein's friend sent him bawdy letters for a 50th birthday album. One was from Donald Trump. Now their friendship, you'll recall, went back decades. The article details a moment from 2003 and some of the letters that Epstein's onetime girlfriend and accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, gathered for a birthday tribute album.
According to "The Wall Street Journal," pages from the album are among documents examined by Justice Department officials who investigated Epstein and Maxwell. The paper citing people who have reviewed the pages. Here's the passage about then citizen Trump's letter, this is from "The Wall Street Journal". "The letter bearing Trumps name, which was reviewed by the journal, is bawdy -- like others in the album, it contains several lines of typewritten text framed by the outline of a naked woman, which appears to be hand drawn with a heavy marker. A pair of small arcs denotes the woman's breasts, and the future President's signature is a squiggly 'Donald' below her waist, mimicking pubic hair. The letter concludes: "Happy Birthday -- and may every day be another wonderful secret."
Now, the President's denial, quoting again from "The Wall Street Journal" "In an interview with 'The Journal' on Tuesday evening, Trump denied writing the letter or drawing the picture. This is not me. This is a fake thing. It's a fake 'Wall Street Journal story,' he said. "I never wrote a picture in my life. I don't draw pictures of women," he said. "It's not my language. It's not my words."
The President also threatened legal action, saying, quote, "I'm going to sue "The "Wall Street Journal"" just like I sued everyone else. All this caps a day of political rebellion on several fronts against the President's reframing of the Epstein case as a hoax, and his Republican followers as stupid and weaklings. Those were his words for buying into it. Turns out some GOP lawmakers do not like that.
Today, Republicans on the House Rules Committee held up legislation which must be voted on by tomorrow to make the President's DOGE cuts official. The immediate reason, according to sources familiar with the matter, is frustration over leadership's handling of the Epstein case. The larger motivation, these sources say, is the prospect of blowback in their districts, where constituents are angry with the Justice Department's decision last week to put a lid on any further disclosures in the case.
And if those Republican lawmakers are upset with the President, listen to the far right agitator in 2022 Trump Dinner Companion, Nick Fuentes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK FUENTES, HOST, "AMERICA FIRST" PODCAST: And now he says if you're not on board with the Epstein coverup, oh, I don't want your support. You're a weakling. F*ck you, F*ck you, you suck. You are fat, you are a joke. You are stupid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, he went on to say that MAGA supporters were hag. As for what the man, he's now speaking out against actually meant last night when he called on the FBI to investigate the Epstein case as a hoax aimed at him, his press secretary had this to say when asked about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REPORTER: Can you clarify which part of the Epstein hoax is the hoax
part?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President is referring to the fact that Democrats have now seized on this as if they ever wanted transparency when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein, which is an asinine suggestion for any Democrat to make.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: In fact, House Democrats have been trying to advance a measure requiring the administration to turn over all Epstein related files within 30 days, something Republican Thomas Massie says he supports, along with other House Republicans, one of whom is Marjorie Taylor Greene.
He now says he has enough in addition to all 212 Democrats, to force a vote on the legislation. Now, whether or not Massie gets them, the mere fact that he and Marjorie Taylor Greene are now making common cause with Democrats over this, albeit perhaps for different reasons, is still pretty striking and apparently unforeseen by the President when he lit into a reporter nine days ago when asked about the Justice Department's memo shutting down any new Epstein disclosures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years.
Are people still talking about this guy? This creep? That is unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:15]
COOPER: Well it's not unbelievable, again, because it is the President's own supporters, people who are now number one and number two of the FBI who have been talking about this for years and spreading, making all sorts of allegations for years. They've been talking about it. The blowback has been building ever since the President said that. So, are the calls from both sides of the aisle for greater disclosure, accompanied by action today, from House Republicans to force the issue with growing support from the mainstream, including as CNN's Kaitlan Collins first mentioned on the broadcast last night, former Vice President Mike Pence.
He spoke with CBS news' Major Garrett and pushed back on his former bosses claim that this is all politically driven.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, FORMER UNITED STATES VICE-PRESIDENT: Jeffrey Epstein's prosecution began during the Bush administration.
MAJOR GARRETT, CBS HOST: Continued --
PENCE: He's blaming it on Democrats.
GARRETT: -- the Obama years.
PENCE: It's not a hoax.
GARRETT: I know of no reason why this administration, wants the victims' names are protected, should not release all the all the files on Jeffrey Epstein.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, it wasn't so long ago the President was hinting that he would do just that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEX FRIDMAN, AMERICAN COMPUTER SCIENTIST AND PODCASTER: It's just very strange for a lot of people that the list of clients that went to the island has not been made public.
TRUMP: Yes, it's very interesting, isn't it? Probably will be, by the way, probably.
FRIDMAN: So, if you're able to, you'll be --
TRUMP: Yes, certainly, take a look at it. But yes, I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, that was the President during the campaign last year before he discovered that this was all just a Democratic hoax, apparently aimed at deceiving stupid Republicans, again, his words.
He was certainly happy back then when he thought he'd benefit politically, to suggest he would release the files, as was his biggest backer at the time, Elon Musk, who was also teasing the prospect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, ENTREPRENEUR, OWNER OF TESLA AND SPACEX: You know, I think part of why Kamala's getting so much support is that if Trump wins, that Epstein client list is going to become public.
TUCKER CARLSON, AMERICAN COMMENTATOR AND HOST: Yes.
MUSK: And some of those billionaires behind Kamala are terrified of that outcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, tonight, whatever's in the files and whichever billionaire is or isn't named, the billionaire in the White House is the story and the blowback that he's facing is no hoax. For more on this very busy day, we are joined by CNN chief White House
correspondent Kaitlan Collins. So, what's the White House saying tonight about this "Wall Street Journal" story?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, they're pretty enraged about it. We're seeing the Vice- President, J.D. Vance, respond to it tonight, calling it BS and saying that "The Wall Street Journal" did not show them the actual letter, that they say that the President wrote to Jeffrey Epstein in this book with other people.
Obviously, we have been hearing about this just to let everyone know, you know, typically when a big story is published, people don't always know about it. This has kind of been rumored in Washington and around the White House for the last 36 hours or so, that some story tying the President to Jeffrey Epstein in another way, was going to be released.
Now, there are questions about what was happening behind the scenes with the White House. And we were hearing about the President as he confirmed on the record to "The Wall Street Journal" that he wants to sue them over this, and that if they publish this, that he was going to sue.
But the other part of this, Anderson, is that they are downplaying essentially what "The Wall Street Journal" is publishing tonight and saying that it does not constitute anything meaningful or substantive when it comes to the President's ties to Jeffrey Epstein, which were already known. Obviously, there's videos and pictures of them at his Mar-a-Lago Club from years ago.
But I think the question really for the White House is they have had a very difficult time the last few days, beating back this fervor on Capitol Hill over the Jeffrey Epstein documents. And you're seeing more Republicans call for a release of the documents that the Justice Department has in its capacity right now.
And the question is whether or not this helps or hurts the White House efforts to tamp this story down. It doesn't seem like it's going to help in terms of once again, tying the President to this, especially as you're seeing people like Elon Musk, who came out of course, weeks ago and accused the President of being included in the Epstein documents, and argue about why he is not releasing them and that it's because of his ties to this as well.
So, I think the one thing and the biggest takeaway from this is it's not going to help the story go away, which is what the White House's goal has been since last week, but also certainly since Monday night. And clearly that is not going to happen right now, Anderson.
COOPER: Has there been any, I mean, has there been any other movement on the Presidents threat of legal action?
COLLINS: We haven't seen any yet. Obviously, he's known for threatening legal action, but that has been something that he has ramped up into an entirely new level since taking office this time. So, we'll see, obviously, "The Wall Street Journal" is well aware of that.
And then in terms of what this response looks like going forward from here as were seeing, the question is how Congressional Republicans are going to respond to this. The ones that have been raising the questions about this and saying that they want to release more documents, so much so that it is holding up the President's legislative agenda on Capitol Hill today, that doesn't mean it's not ultimately going to get passed, but you're seeing just how much this is interfering in that.
And I think the one thing I can't stress enough, when I've been speaking with White House officials about this is this has ballooned so far outside of where they thought it was going to go. They thought it would be a few days story, and instead it has become a multi-day story with House Republicans, with the President's agenda now going back with a letter that he is allegedly wrote years ago. And that is just something that the White House is not able to control or really change the narrative on this front.
And so, does that change how the President is responding to this -- is something that we'll just have to wait and see.
[20:10:49]
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, thanks very much. Joining us now with more on the Epstein files is POLITICO's White House Bureau Chief, Dasha Burns. What are your sources inside White House telling you about the reaction to this "Wall Street Journal" story?
DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: Look, the President is absolutely furious. He has been furious about the continued nonstop flood of stories about Epstein and this is sort of the straw that broke the Camel's back here. But this is, again, something to Kaitlan's point that they have not been able to get their hands around, and it continues slipping through their fingers.
Look, offending the President's base, offending the MAGA base was at one point a cardinal sin for anyone in elected politics on the Republican side. And now the President has insulted some of those very MAGA supporters himself. This is a break within the MAGA coalition between Trump and his base, this bond that seemed unbreakable for so long, that is really significant and much bigger than anyone expected.
You know, the White House thought that particularly because Kash Patel and Dan Bongino, the FBI director and his deputy, because they were the ones who actually propagated this conspiracy and were such a big part of it in that online ecosystem for so long. They thought that because of that, if they came out and they said, hey, there's no there, there, that the MAGA base would trust them. They did not expect this revolt and this sort of cannibalism of one of their own, some of their own.
COOPER: It's fascinating -- which is fascinating to me because, I mean, you spend time spreading conspiracy theories, which is what these guys did when they were not, you know, number one and number two of the FBI and then they're surprised that people believed them, they -- I mean, they were profiting off people, believing them then and now all of a sudden, they think that they have such legitimacy because they did that, that they can shut it all down. I'm not sure why they're so surprised by that turn of events. How concerned is the administration with Congressman Massie's efforts to try to force the Justice Department to release the Epstein files?
BURNS: Look, I think, you know, we saw Karoline Leavitt's presser today. She was asked about all of this multiple times. She deferred a lot to the Justice Department and tried to, in her answer, say, why are we talking about this? Look at all the great stuff that that the President is doing.
The reality is, behind-the-scenes, they are very concerned because this is coming at a time when they thought and they really felt that they had the wind at their backs. They had passed The Big Beautiful Bill. They've got the rescissions happening on the Hill. He's, you know, trying to play peacemaker all over the world and the President and his allies feel like he is getting so much done. And this is this has come to stymie this momentum that they felt like they had.
So, not only is this way a much bigger problem that they expected, but the timing couldn't be worse here because they thought that they were going to spend the summer doing a victory lap all across the country, and instead they're under scrutiny of their own supporters.
COOPER: Have you heard anything about efforts to see if there's other information that can be released? We were talking to one reporter last night who talked about the autopsy results on Jeffrey Epstein were never released publicly. That would seem to be something the White House could put out. Is there any talk about what documents they could release?
BURNS: Right now, everything that I'm hearing is that President Trump does not want to do anything else on this. He made it pretty clear to Karoline, who relayed it to us in the media today, that he is not interested in a special prosecutor, and he's really not interested in dredging up any more of this.
Now, there is the option for the DOJ for Pam Bondi to request certain documents from the different cases, from certain judges. But the President himself, who, you know, has been directing all of his Cabinet members and basically every action they do has indicated he does not want to take this any further, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Dasha Burns, thanks so much.
Joining me now with analysis CNN tech journalist Kara Swisher, host of the "Pivot". And on with "Kara Swisher Podcast". She's also the author of "Burn Book: A Tech Love Story".
First of all, Kara, your reaction to this "Wall Street Journal" story?
[20:15:23]
KARA SWISHER, CNN TECH JOURNALIST: Well, I think it's just the beginning, actually, it's the first story. I think there's probably more to come. I think as these things pass he doesn't release this stuff, people will start giving it to reporters. Things will start getting out, and none of it looks good for Trump, including this story.
Even if he denies it, saying we have things in common, Jeffrey. It creates a feeling, and especially online, that it gets amplified and really weaponized in a lot of ways. So, it's not going to end here until he releases these files in some substantive way, which he seems resistant to do, and could be possibly for these reasons. It looks bad for him.
COOPER: Do you think he's going to follow through on his threat to sue the paper?
SWISHER: Sure, he does that all the time. I think they've got this nailed down. I'm sure Rupert Murdoch didn't -- I mean, obviously Emma Tucker is an amazing editor at "The Wall Street Journal," but this got had to have had approval by Rupert Murdoch or Lachlan Murdoch. And so, I think they probably feel that they are very much locked down on, on this information. And again, everybody's going to be doing much more reporting. And that's the problem here, the drip, drip, drip.
And, the problem for Trump is he was friends with Epstein during his most heinous period, right, of behavior before he was arrested the first time and they were very close. And that's obvious, there's pictures everywhere and as more stuff comes out, especially that Trump doesn't have control of, the online reaction is going to be massive, especially among his supporters.
And that's the real problem here. These people have been bred on conspiracy theories. He's been feeding a lot of them and getting them used to it. And so it's like, you know, it's like feeding children tons of toxic sugar. What do you -- don't be surprised that they behave like this, and they're going to continue to do so because it's one of the bearing walls of the Trump -- the way Trump attracts his fans to him.
COOPER: It's feeding them toxic -- it's feeding your kids toxic sugar and then calling them stupid and weaklings for liking toxic sugar.
SWISHER: Right, he made them.
COOPER: Yes, and then there's the Elon Musk of this all. We played the clip of him talking to Tucker Carlson earlier in a social media post on X, responding to Megyn Kelly's statement that "The Wall Street Journal" story is, "The dumbest attempted hit piece I've ever read," Elon Musk said, "yes, the letter sounds bogus." What do you make of that given how much Elon Musk has been posting about the Epstein files in recent days?
SWISHER: I don't know. I don't -- I'm sure he doesn't know anything. I mean, these people just say things off the top of their heads. That's my experience. You know, I think it's a beginning story and it's -- I think they were trying they're trying to create a narrative here and probably they have other stuff reporting they're doing this would be my guess as an editor that there's this relationship. There was a close relationship.
You know, that's really the problem for Trump is separating himself from Jeffrey Epstein, especially when his base is not, just enamored, it's at the heart of -- it's not like a little thing. It's a structural pillar of this movement -- is Jeffrey Epstein and all that he represents, so.
COOPER: Well, it's also tied to the QAnon movement.
SWISHER: Correct.
COOPER: I mean, it sort of -- it is in that same Petri dish and obviously there's, you know, there's crossover with I mean, it's part and parcel or I don't know if it's a subheading of the QAnon movement, but they're kind of linked together.
SWISHER: It is, oh, no, the QAnon part is critical here. I mean, they have trained these people to think these things. Remember, Hillary and the base, Comet pizza basement and everything else they have, they have eaten this conspiracy theory for a long time and Epstein is a critical character in it. And to make fun of them is a problematic thing. And to tell them that they don't know what they're talking about. After feeding them this stuff, it is very much linked together. And, you know, you live by QAnon, you die by QAnon in a lot of ways.
I mean, I think online, this movement, you just go online and watch the reaction. It is not Democrats, although I think Democrats are taking advantage of a really dicey situation for Donald Trump. But it's mostly the base that is going crazy on all these sites. And if you look at the comments, if you look at some of the leaders, although some of them have pulled back, probably in fear of Trump, it's a real problem for him, especially as it gets amplified and weaponized online.
And I think he doesn't have the power to stop that because it's at the heart of this online conspiracy world that is linked together in so many different ways, and it's incredibly powerful.
COOPER: It's also interesting to me that President Trump is now calling this a hoax, a Democratic Hoax, essentially, it's something that propagated by Democrats. I mean, the hoax was Dan Bongino and Kash Patel on all of these podcasts saying -- just saying stuff and pushing this and fanning the flames of this. I guess, for views for, you know, for profit. And now they, they are in a position where they've actually seen this.
I mean, Kash Patel, I think it was to Joe Rogan saying or to Glenn Beck, you know, yes, the FBI Director has the black book of Epstein and could really sit right away. He's now the FBI director, I guess he's now the guy -- the black book, which was published, by the way, a number of times in, I think, "New York" Magazine online, I think Gawker did it years and years ago.
[20:20:37]
SWISHER: Yeah, I think that the problem is this is all linked. These people were all for it until they were against it. It creates a real feeling of unease among the followers, and again, Epstein is at the heart of it.
And so, the problem for Trump is that they will keep talking about this, and he is, factually speaking, they were friends for a decade or more, right? And they were social friends and he was on the plane. There's lots of facts here that could be, look, maybe nothing happened. Maybe something happened. Who knows? But if he doesn't release the files, there's no way of removing himself from this controversy.
And look, some people could have just gone to that island and left. I know a lot of people who did that. Some people could have just gone to dinner at his house and left. You shouldn't -- you know, there are problematic issues here in this thing and including fraud. Like what is made up, what's not made up. This is so perfect for an online disaster for Trump, who has been up until now very good at communicating online.
You know, whether you like him or not, he's real good at it. And so, we'll see where it goes. But it's not going anywhere good as long as he suppresses things and doesn't release things, they're going to have to release something to get this story to go away, because it's not one of these three-day stories that then just moves on.
This one has staying power in a way. I talked and said that a couple weeks ago on "Pivot," and I just -- I've watched these online groups and they this is what animates them, whether it's true or not.
COOPER: Well. Julie K. Brown, the reporter who I mean, you know, covered this story from the beginning, I mean, incredible reporting on this for years. She pointed out to me last night, and we're about to talk to her again, that the autopsy report was never released. I mean, that's something it would seem could be put out.
SWISHER: Yes, they could if they're trying to exonerate themselves. I mean, that's the problem. What they're doing here is they're going to have to exonerate themselves for something we don't know. And so, wouldn't it be good to show us, and the only, you know, what people do in their mind is, well, if he's not releasing it, maybe something's there. That's how people react.
And, the problem for Trump is that he -- there's enough pictures, there's enough plane rides, there's enough this. And so, if he's very interested in putting this thing to bed, as I'm sure he is, he's going to want this, this drumbeat to stop because it only gets worse around this, because it's so animated by online conspiracy theories, which you're seeing the power of right now. And unfortunately, it's being brought to bear to Trump as opposed to him unleashing it, you know, on others, you know, they're eating --
COOPER: The guys who's been spreading conspiracy theories about others for years.
SWISHER: Correct.
COOPER: There's an irony there, obviously.
SWISHER: Karma, there's a karma to it.
COOPER: Yes, Kara Swisher thanks so much.
Coming next, Julie K. Brown, who I just mentioned, the reporter who has covered the story from the beginning of "The Wall Street Journal's" new reporting and the other new developments today.
And the cancellation announced just moments ago of "The Late Show" with Stephen Colbert.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:56]
COOPER: Just before we went to break, the Vice President reacted to "The Wall Street Journal's" new reporting, the headline of which reads -- Jeffrey Epstein's friend sent him bawdy letters for a 50th birthday album. One was from Donald Trump.
Now, before showing you that reaction, I just want to read the key passage again, along with the President's denial, This is from "The Wall Street Journal." "The letter bearing Trump's name, which was reviewed by "The Journal," is bawdy. Like others in the album, it contains several lines of typewritten text framed by the outline of a naked woman, which appears to be hand drawn with a heavy marker. A pair of small arcs denotes the woman's breasts, and the future President's signature is a squiggly Donald below her waist, mimicking pubic hair. The letter concludes: Happy Birthday, and may every day be another wonderful secret."
The President, for his part, is denying the story is denying the story is true. "The Journal." "In an interview with 'The Journal' on Tuesday evening, Trump denied writing the letter or drawing the picture. This is not me, this is a fake thing. It's a fake "Wall Street Journal" story, he said. "I never wrote a picture in my life. I don't draw pictures of women", he said. "It's not my language. It's not my words."
As we said, there's now this from Vice-President Vance, "Forgive my language, but this story is complete and utter, bullsh*t. "The Wall Street Journal" should be ashamed for publishing it." Mr. Vance went on to say, asking, "Where is this letter? Would you be shocked to learn they never showed it to us before publishing it? Does anyone honestly believe this sounds like Donald Trump?"
Joining me now is "Miami Herald" investigative reporter, Julie K. Brown, whose persistence and commitment to the story kept in the public consciousness and led to prosecutors reopening the case against Jeffrey Epstein. She's also the author of "Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story".
First of all, what do you make of this "Wall Street Journal" reporting? JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "MIAMI HERALD": Well, it seems
to me that this is the start of a drip, drip that were going to start finding out a little bit more about the President's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. We haven't really known all that much. I don't think that people were talking about it. And now, since it's exploded once again, I think that more and more people are starting to talk and quite frankly, they're going to get -- I would think that we'll get more leaks like this about their relationship and how close they were.
COOPER: In terms of, you know, where this is now, what are the questions you would like most answered?
BROWN: Well, I still think that there are a lot of documents that can be released by the administration. You alluded earlier, which I've mentioned myself before, is the autopsy report, because there's many, many questions about the way that he died. I think also that there's legitimate questions about how the FBI and the DOJ handled the case from the very beginning, and those earlier case files, I would think, could be released.
You know, they're fighting -- there's a couple open court cases involving the FBI and victims suing the FBI, as well as a lawyer who's been suing them to unseal these vault files of the FBI. And they've been using various reasons for not releasing them, which are, quite frankly, a little ludicrous. So I think that that needs to be looked at. I think those records should become public.
COOPER: How do you think Epstein's victims are viewing how all this has played out this week?
BROWN: Well, I spoke to a couple of them over the past few days and, you know, they're afraid. They think that this is the biggest cover-up in history. And they are -- the more that people, you know, the -- our government, this is them saying this, the more our government covers up for Epstein, the more fearful I become because I keep thinking, who is this guy?
Who are the people that are in these files that there is -- they must be, you know, really powerful people for them to be covering up like this. And so, right now, they're afraid. They're not going to come forward. They're not going to talk. They're just worried that this all means that there's a lot of powerful people involved with Epstein's crimes and that they're being protected.
COOPER: I heard someone on Capitol Hill today saying that they thought that in the Treasury Department, there must be some file in some closet somewhere about Jeffrey Epstein that could be released with lots of information about financial transactions. Is that something you're aware of? Is that accurate?
BROWN: Yes. Well, Senator Ron Wyden spoke on the floor of the Senate today, and I did listen to his comments. And he apparently has been looking into this for three years, into Jeffrey Epstein's finances. And, you know, under the Biden administration, he did receive some of this documentation about his finances that showed that there were -- I'm trying to remember the number -- but there were over 4,000 wire transactions totaling almost $2 billion that he had -- that had gone through his bank accounts.
After my story came out in 2018, immediately he made a lot of financial transactions. And so Senator Wyden is questioning, you know, why aren't we following these leads? These are something that the Trump administration could pursue. And he said he's getting pushback from the current Treasury secretary about getting more of that financial information.
COOPER: White House Press Secretary Karoline was asked again today about releasing more information related to Epstein. I just want to play again what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: -- the president has said if the attorney general and the Department of Justice and the FBI have any more credible evidence in regards to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes, they should put that forward.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Do you actually -- I mean, do you think that's going to happen? I mean, you -- you know, you talked about the autopsy report, that there's other information that could be released.
BROWN: No, I think that they want to put a lid on this, and I think there's a very -- they have reason for that. I think that there are people's names in there that they don't want to get out. I think there's some very powerful people. In speaking with some of the victims' attorneys, after Epstein's arrest, when they opened up the victims' compensation fund, a lot of victims came -- more victims came forward.
And according to their lawyers, some of them had a lot more detail about exactly what they were required to do. In other words, they would meet Epstein or some of his associates at a club. They would be -- you know, they would have their identification taken away. They would be given a cell phone and said, from now on, you basically work for us.
[20:35:08]
I mean, I've heard some horrific stories from these victims' attorneys of things that had happened, and I think it was a lot worse than maybe what we even know.
COOPER: And Maurene Comey, as you know, federal prosecutor, daughter of former FBI Director James Comey, was fired from her job yesterday without explanation. It happened just before we talked last night. She was a prosecutor in the case against Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell as well.
She sent her colleagues an email today warning them, quote, "Fear is the tool of a tyrant wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place. A fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power. Of commitment to seek justice for victims. Of dedication to truth above all else."
What do you make of the timing of her firing the message to colleagues?
BROWN: It's odd. I don't know why that would have happened. I mean, she -- they certainly could have done this at the beginning of his term. I mean, I just don't understand why he would have done it in the midst of all this chaos involving Trump. Maybe to divert attention to that instead of, you know, what we're talking about today, his involvement, or to maybe try to say that this was -- she was part of maybe what he's calling the hoax.
I mean, I don't really know. I do know that she successfully prosecuted Ghislaine Maxwell. There's a good chance Ghislaine Maxwell would still be free if it wasn't for Maureen Comey.
COOPER: I appreciate you being with us again. Thank you so much. I feel like we've been calling you a lot the last few days. I really appreciate your expertise.
Up next, more breaking news. CBS is ending "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" just days after he criticized Paramount settlement with President Trump. They say it's a financial decision. More on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:38]
COOPER: Well, there's more breaking news tonight. CBS is ending "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert." This move comes just days after Colbert criticized the recent settlement between Paramount, the parent company of CBS, and President Trump for $16 million.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Now, I believe this kind of complicated financial settlement with a sitting government official has a technical name in legal circles. It's Big Fat Bribe, because this all comes as Paramount's owners are trying to get the Trump administration to approve the sale of our network to a new owner, Skydance.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Well, CBS says the move is a, quote, "is purely a financial decision," end quote. The cancelation is expected to take place in May of next year.
Joining me now is CNN Chief Media Analyst Brian Stelter. I mean, Brian, you know, CBS is saying this is a financial decision. It is certainly the timing of this is kind of stunning.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Right. From the optics standpoint, the timing could not be worse for CBS. Colbert is such an outspoken Trump critic. He's just back from vacation. And as he showed there on Monday on his first night back from vacation, he's also a thorn in his parent company's side.
So this looks to a lot of Colbert's fans like another form of capitulation by CBS to the president of the United States. If you look at Colbert's Instagram page already, his fans are pouring their hearts out and blaming CBS for this.
Here's the reporting that I have just in the past few minutes, Anderson, about this financial explanation. Think back to 2023 when "The Late Late Show with James Corden" went off the air. I reported at the time that that show had become unprofitable, that CBS was not able to sell enough ads to make that show profitable.
Well, that is now the case for Colbert as well. I'm told by a source close to the network that "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" is now technically unprofitable. So that does give the company a financial reason to end the show starting in May 2026. However, it's not as if Colbert was given a chance to take a pay cut or maybe change the format of the show or move out of the Ed Sullivan Theater.
This seems to have happened all at once. And it comes on the merge -- on the verge of that big Paramount-Skydance merger. Who's taking over Skydance? Larry Ellison, a friend of President Trump and his son, David.
So there may be a lot more to this story. It's just happened in the past hour, but there's a lot more reported to do on this.
COOPER: Right. And there's reporting that there was a side deal also with -- perhaps with the president beyond what Paramount itself directly did. How did Colbert himself address this at the taping tonight?
STELTER: Well, he said he found out about this last night, which indicates it was not at all his decision. He said he'd like the show to continue with some other hosts, but that's apparently not an option either. Notably, his guest happened to be Democratic Senator Adam Schiff. And here's what Schiff wrote on X after the taping. Quote, "If Paramount and CBS ended the "Late Show" for political reasons, the public deserves to know and the public deserves better."
But we're also seeing reaction from other Democratic senators like Elizabeth Warren. So this is immediately going to become a political hot button topic given Colbert's outspoken criticism of Trump. Now, Colbert will be on the air for the better part of a year. So that's going to make his show in some ways even more interesting.
But the consequences here of the Paramount-Skydance merger are certainly important and relevant. As you said, Trump made a comment about a so-called side deal. He suggested that Paramount did not just agree to pay him $16 million dollars, that there were also other agreements, perhaps for public service announcements promoting Trump aligned causes on CBS airwaves in the future.
[20:45:10]
So, the would-be future owners of Paramount, those are the Ellison's, they're probably going to have to face some pretty tough questions about this Colbert surprise.
COOPER: Yes. Brian Stelter, thanks very much.
Coming up, Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us to explain more on the president's diagnosis after swelling in his legs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:50:06]
COOPER: New today, the White House revealing President Trump has been diagnosed with a condition called chronic venous insufficiency. The news comes after the president and some observers noticed swelling of his ankles and some bruising on his right hand. He appeared to try to cover up with makeup.
I want to bring in CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So, Sanjay, what is this condition?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So chronic venous insufficiency, a relatively common condition, something that gets more common as you get older, involves a problem with the veins. That's the venous part of that.
So arteries carry blood away from the heart. Veins take blood back to the heart. If the veins aren't working properly, if they're not doing their job, fluid, blood can sort of start to pool. And that was probably causing that swelling that you just showed in that picture there.
Again, you know, a fairly common condition. I will say a couple of interesting things. He had a physical exam back in April, and so three months ago or so, and they made no mention of it at that time. So either it wasn't there or they didn't talk about it, it does appear that this problem has either started or worsened over the last three months.
And I think that's what sort of prompted the exam that he had, Anderson. They looked at his blood to see if there's any problems that made him more likely to develop blood clots. They said it was fine. They looked for blood clots themselves because sometimes blood clots can block the veins. That does not seem to be the case.
They looked at his heart to see that his heart was functioning properly, pumping blood adequately, because if it's not doing that, that can also lead to swelling. And that's, I think, ultimately how they landed on this diagnosis of chronic venous insufficiency.
COOPER: What kind of treatment is the person looking at?
GUPTA: Yes, so, you know, without -- if there's no blood clots or anything like that to treat medically, then you're really thinking of sort of mechanical things. So you just -- if you imagine swelling that's occurring in the legs, the lower legs, typically getting worse because of gravity, just raising the legs at night, for example. So sleeping on a couple of pillows underneath your ankles and your feet, that can be helpful. Wearing things like compression socks, that can be helpful. Being as active as possible. When people are active, walking and moving, that tends to create more circulation of the blood through the veins as well.
So sometimes the problem just gets worse, and it needs to be treated in other ways. But for the beginning stages, at least, that's the best sort of approach.
COOPER: The memo from the White House also goes into the cause of the bruising on the president's hand that he's been --
GUPTA: Yes.
COOPER: -- trying to cover.
GUPTA: Yes, right, he's been trying to cover up. We've seen the makeup on his hand, you know, covering up these bruises. You know, we've noticed this for some time. First of all, Anderson, I think going back to February, even with a visit that he had at that point, we saw some pictures of bruising on his hand.
The White House doctors commented on this, and they said this is irritation and sort of minor trauma to the hand. They say probably as a result of lots of handshaking, on top of the fact that he's taking aspirin as an anticoagulant. So, you know, Anderson, I'll tell you, that does track.
You know, people who are on blood thinners or some sort of blood thinner like this and have repeated sort of trauma to the hand or just even handshakes can cause that sort of bruising. So that's what they concluded after examining him, and it sort of fits.
COOPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Coming up, a little more on Stephen Colbert.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:38]
COOPER: I've had the pleasure and honor of being a guest on "Late Night with Stephen Colbert" more times than I can count. And I just wanted to take a minute and say how shocked and truly saddened I am by the news that this show will be canceled. Stephen Colbert is smart, and he's funny, and he has actual conversations with people on his program.
I was going to show you a bunch of funny exchanges that I've had the pleasure of having with him on his show over the years, sometimes with that guy, Andy Cohen. But -- and involving some alcohol. But I think the thing that so many of us love about Stephen Colbert is that he is at heart an incredibly decent human being with an amazing wife and family and strong faith. So I want to show you an exchange that we had a few weeks after my mom died in 2019. It wasn't on his show. It was in an interview I was doing about his show with him. But I started to ask him about loss, because his dad and his two brothers, Peter and Paul, died in a plane crash when Stephen was 10 years old.
And I think this exchange shows a lot about who Stephen Colbert is and why so many people love him. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: You told an interviewer that you have learned, in your words, love the thing that I most wish had not happened.
COLBERT: I remember --
COOPER: You went on to say what punishments of God are not gifts. Do you really believe that?
COLBERT: Yes. It's a gift to exist. It's a gift to exist. And with existence comes suffering. There's no escaping that. And I guess I'm either a Catholic or a Buddhist when I say those things, because I've heard those from both traditions.
But I didn't learn it, that I was grateful for the thing I most wish hadn't happened, is that I realized it. And is that -- and it's an oddly guilty feeling --
COOPER: It doesn't mean you are happy --
COLBERT: I don't want it to have happened. I want it to not have happened.
COOPER: Right.
COLBERT: But if you are grateful for your life, which I think is a positive thing to do, yes, not everybody is --
COOPER: Right.
COLBERT: -- and I'm not always, but it's the most positive thing to do, then you have to be grateful for all of it. It's -- you can't pick and choose what you're grateful for. And then, so what do you get from loss? You get awareness of other people's loss.
COOPER: Well, that's true, empathy.
COLBERT: Which allows you to connect with that other person.
COOPER: Right.
COLBERT: Which allows you to love more deeply and to understand what it's like to be a human being, if it's true that all humans suffer.
COOPER: Right.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Stephen Colbert, I talk with him more about loss and grief on the first season of my podcast, "All There Is." I encourage you to listen to that as well.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
