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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

GOP Lawmakers Want To Force Vote On Epstein Docs, Speaker Stalls; Epstein Accuser Describes Meeting Donald Trump In Epstein's Office; Trump & WH Try To Distract From Epstein Case, Tout Actions In First Six Months Of Second Term, NFL Name & Attacking Dems; Judge Calls DOJ Efforts Seeking No Prison Time For Ex-Officer In Breonna Taylor Raid "Incongruous And Inappropriate"; Two Suspects Arrested After Shooting Of Off-Duty Border Patrol Agent; DHS Secretary Blames New York City Officials, Sanctuary City Policies For Shooting Of Off- Duty Border Patrol Agent. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 21, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Of course, those who knew him and those who felt like they knew him from their T.V. screens over the years are reeling tonight.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Absolutely. I mean, just so shocking and terrifying to imagine just swimming on a family vacation and a tide just -- so tragic, so terrifying with an eight-year-old child.

Elizabeth, thank you so much.

And thanks so much to all of you, as always, for joining us. "AC360" begins, right now.

[20:00:30]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, breaking news, the White House tries to deflect attention on the Jeffrey Epstein case as a Republican Senator Josh Hawley says, releasing the grand jury testimony is not enough. He wants a hearing on Capitol Hill.

Plus, what a federal judge did today at the sentencing for a former police officer involved in the deadly Breonna Taylor raid after the DOJ requested no prison time.

And new details on the shocking, tragic death of "Cosby Show" star Malcolm-Jamal Warner at the age of 54.

Good evening, John Berman here in for Anderson. And tonight, the White House seems to want two things and seems to want them badly. First, to talk about anything and everything besides Jeffrey Epstein and the President himself floated too many subjects to count on social media from football team names to the imaginary arrest of former President Obama.

The second thing the White House wants is for the world, and particularly his own supporters, to believe they've been maximally transparent on the issues surrounding Jeffrey Epstein.

On both fronts, in the words of the Rolling Stones' song the President used to play at his rallies, "You Can't Always Get What You Want."

White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt was sent out to the press corps late today to tout the accomplishments of the first six months of Trump 2.0, and was met with this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: So at six months, the President is also experiencing some pushback from members of his own MAGA base, especially on the matter of the Jeffrey Epstein files. Is the President satisfied that his own supporters are not heeding his call to let it go and to move on?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I know the President would reject that, Kelly. The President is the creator and the leader of the Make America Great Again movement. It's his baby that he made and he knows what his supporters want, it's transparency and he has given them that on all accounts when it comes to everything this administration has done, especially when it just comes to the President himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Transparency on all accounts, she says transparency. Now, to move from the Stones to a quote from "The Princess Bride"-- "I don't think it means what you think it means."

It was two weeks ago today that the Trump administration's Justice Department released a memo trying to close the book on Jeffrey Epstein, both regarding any so-called client list and any questions about his death. The memo also made clear that, "No further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted".

The resulting uproar from the President's base led to infighting between the DOJ and the FBI, and eventually, President Trump's call late last week to have any pertinent grand jury testimony regarding Epstein be made public, subject to court approval. Of course, that's the thing, that particular information is subject to court approval.

There's a lot of other information the Attorney General could order released with no court approval, especially if the President told her to. Leavitt was asked about that, too and every time she deferred to the Justice Department and FBI.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Why hasn't the President just ordered the FBI to release the full Epstein files, just get it all out there?

LEAVITT: The President has said if the Department of Justice and the FBI want to move forward with releasing any further credible evidence, they should do so. As to why they have or have not, or will, you should ask the FBI about that.

REPORTER: Will he call on Kash Patel to do more?

LEAVITT: Again, as I just answered, the President has told the Attorney General and the FBI Director to release any credible evidence that they find.

REPORTER: There are reports that President Trump or that FBI agents going through the Epstein files were told to flag President Trump's name if it came up. Is that something the President was aware of or something that he directed those agents or the Department of Justice to do?

LEAVITT: I don't believe that's something the White House was aware of. You'd have to ask the FBI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All of this, not enough for some even within the GOP, including staunch Trump supporter, Senator Josh Hawley, who late tonight told CNN's Manu Raju that he wants more information released and congressional hearings, saying the Justice Department "Ought to do full transparency and we ought to have hearings on it."

His comments come after Ohio Republican Warren Davidson said he would like to see Attorney General Pam Bondi testify before Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): I don't really see why we would do anything other than bring Pam Bondi in and say, you know, to the committee of jurisdiction and say, you know, please explain.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Would you want to hear her testify, Pam Bondi?

DAVIDSON: Yes, I mean, I'm not on that committee, but, you know, I really would like the committee of jurisdiction to bring her in and say, you know, hey, you started this off, you've got binders, please explain. You know, we're led to believe there are going to be some prosecutions.

If we're going to prosecute, we assume there's going to be convictions. And I think that's really the disconnect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:05:10]

BERMAN: For President Trump's part, it has been a busy few days on Truth Social. The most notable was reposting this Deepfake video of former President Obama being arrested in the Oval Office as President Trump looks on smiling. Some clear red meat to the base. Or another post where he threatened Washington, D.C.'s football team, the Commanders, to change their name back to the Redskins, which is considered offensive to some indigenous people -- "I may put a restriction on them that if they don't change the name back to the original Washington Redskins and get rid of the ridiculous moniker, Washington Commanders, I won't make a deal for them to build a stadium in Washington," he wrote.

White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt called this involvement the art of the deal. Maybe or maybe it's the art of anything but Epstein. On Capitol Hill, Speaker Mike Johnson got the message, perhaps, he kicked the can down the road on a vote in the House on the Epstein files, a non-binding resolution that calls for their release, he said, will not happen until September.

So, for more now on how the White House is trying to contain the Epstein fallout, we're joined by CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes. Kristen, what are your sources telling you about how the White House is trying to navigate the Epstein story now?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, a lot of this is out of their control at this point because of what we have seen from this MAGA base. I do want to point to one thing. You talked about this Josh Hawley comment to Manu Raju. The other part of what he said in that is that he was getting calls from his constituents who want the White House to be more transparent, who want there to be more information to be released.

So, this is just beyond some certain people within the MAGA base who want more information. You're starting to see people calling in about it. There is a heightened need or desire for transparency really around the country and that pressure is going to be applied to the White House here.

Now, President Trump, his team, they have been doing everything to talk about everything else. You saw Karoline Leavitt talking to reporters. She also did an interview on Fox News. She wants to talk about immigration. She wants to talk about the fact that this is the six months.

I mean, at one point, you had President Trump weighing in on the plea deal that the Idaho murderer made. I mean, he is really trying to shift the narrative and shift the conversation. And that's because it is becoming increasingly difficult to actually change the subject here, because one of the things they did, they threw out a bone with asking the Attorney General to unseal these grand jury testimonies, but then we started hearing from legal experts, from people who have been studying this case, even from some of his own base, again, saying that was just simply not enough and that was not going to get to the answers they wanted.

So, how long this ties over the ramping up of calls for the White House to be more involved, to release more information, I mean, that's just a matter of time before we start seeing another escalation here -- John.

BERMAN: We will see what more we hear from them tonight behind you, Kristen Holmes at the White House, as always, thank you very much.

I want to play part of an interview that Erin Burnett just did with Maria Farmer and Miss Farmer worked for Jeffrey Epstein in the 1990s and says she was sexually assaulted by him and Ghislaine Maxwell. She also says she once met Donald Trump in Epstein's office in the 90s when she was about 25. She does not accuse Mr. Trump of any wrongdoing, but watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA FARMER, EPSTEIN ACCUSER, SAYS SHE TOLD FBI TWICE ABOUT ENCOUNTER WITH TRUMP: I get there and I'm waiting. Its dark, like there's no light on in the offices and I thought that was really weird. So I'm seated against the wall in the main part of the offices and just waiting for Epstein. And he, he says, I'll be out in a minute, you know, and he's got the door closed. And then a few minutes later, this man walks in a business suit, kind of tall, imposing, and I immediately was like, that's Donald Trump. What's he doing here?

I'm supposed to be working for Epstein and interviewing with him. Why is Donald Trump here? And he walked up about, you know, a few feet from me and just stood over me in a very imposing way and looked at me like he was in on some secret or something. It was really weird, like smirking, kind of. And I felt threatened. So, I made an ugly face and when I made that ugly face, Epstein walked out from the offices on this side. Trump standing here, I'm here. And he walks out of his office and he goes, oh no, no, no. He was laughing at me and he goes -- she's not here for you, follow me, right. And he escorts him in to this other room.

And I always wondered, who is she in there? Was someone in there, right? And I have no way of knowing, nothing. But I felt very intimidated because I had on running shorts and I was vulnerable, sweaty, just a nobody in an office with these two men that felt very predatory and uncomfortable.

I have to say that when I made that ugly face, he backed off. It wasn't like he was aggressive after that but he made a really vulgar comment following, and I don't know if it was like, you know, like locker room talk in the 90s, the way men were. But he made a joke to Epstein -- oh, I thought she was 16.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:10:11]

BERMAN: Again at the time, Miss Farmer was about 25. CNN reached out to the White House about Maria Farmer's account. Erin, asked her for her response, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Maria, when we reached out to the White House for a comment. They responded, and I'll just read for you what they said: "The President was never in Epstein's office, and in fact, the President kicked him out of his club for being a creep." They then say that Trump, you know, they're clear that he was never in Epstein's office, which of course from the original incident that you're talking about is where this occurred according to your recollection at the Helmsley Building in New York.

FARMER: Yes, it was absolutely in the offices.

BURNETT: So, what do you say when they give a response like this? FARMER: He's lying, yes. I say that they're being disrespectful to the

fact that I have given up my entire life for this case, just to have it investigated. And I'm really sorry for him that he's caught.

But, you know, I don't know what to say to that. He's lying. I don't appreciate it. He was absolutely at the offices, and it was 9:00 at night. I thought it was inappropriate, but also, they were best friends at the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, I just want to reiterate, she does not accuse President Trump of any wrongdoing and the White House denies that President Trump was there. But you heard her response to that.

With us now is former Trump White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci; Semafor White House correspondent Shelby Talcott, and CNN senior political commentator and former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.

Anthony, I just want to start with you. When you have Josh Hawley calling for hearings, when you have Warren Davidson saying he wants to see the Attorney General testify on Capitol Hill. When you have more alleged Epstein victims coming out and speaking in public, where do you think this goes from here?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Listen, I got my 11-day PhD in Washington shenanigans, so this will go for a little while. It'll be a little bit of a merry-go-round and then it will stop and go absolutely nowhere.

I guess the real issue is we're never going to know what happened. And so, I think it's a terrible thing to say because I -- my heart goes out to the victims and I think what this guy, Jeff Epstein did is absolutely atrocious. But I don't think this is going to tar and feather Donald Trump. And again, I don't like some of his policies. I certainly don't like the stuff that he's doing with ICE. We can go into all that stuff. But this is not going to -- this is going to blow over for him, that's my prediction.

BERMAN: Anthony thinks it's going to blow over, David Urban. I think the White House perhaps thought it was going to blow over two weeks ago. What do you think?

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, no, Anthony's right in certain facts that, you know, no matter what they do, no matter what happens, Warren Davidson is a friend. I hear him calling for more transparency and Josh Hawley and others hearings, no matter what they do, no matter how much information is going to be put out, they're not going to get to the bottom of this. There's not going to be any smoking gun. There's not going to be any day that you get to where there's A-ha moment and everything is suddenly understood or there's, you know, transparency in any of this.

I doubt that we're going to get to the bottom of whether Jeffrey Epstein had a list, who's on the list? But it just appears bad that, you know, the attorney general puts out these binders that say, Epstein, phase one, when you put out a binder that says phase one, that that implies that there's going to be a phase two, and there's going to be more coming.

And so, I think that the base is rightfully, you know, kind of eager to see what more there might be. And I think if you build a campaign on radical transparency and taking down the powerful and the Department of Justice, not protecting certain individuals over others, I think this is what you get.

And, you know, Anthony is correct, the administration and maybe it was previously mentioned, but the administration has to be talking about anything else. The Genius Act just passed on stablecoins in the United States.

So, many things happened in this first six months of this presidency, which are really relevant and really impactful, not just the United States, but on the globe. And we're not talking about it. We're talking about this case that just won't go away. I know the White House is eager to get past it.

BERMAN: You know, Shelby, we heard Karoline Leavitt really aggressively and overtly try to push responsibility through the Department of Justice and FBI. What are you hearing from your sources about how the President is viewing all of this right now?

[20:15:01]

SHELBY TALCOTT, SEMAFOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's no secret the President wants this over and done with. He's effectively said so publicly. We've seen him sort of talk about -- he doesn't understand why the base is so focused on this. He thinks it should be a non-story, and so that is the administration's view for the past few weeks. And by sort of shifting all of these questions back over to the DOJ and the FBI, it's almost, you know, the sense is that they're not going to give anybody any new information.

And so, at some point, you keep asking the same questions, nobody is answering them because everybody is saying, this is a question for the FBI. This is a question for the DOJ, this question for the White House. And it sort of sucks all the oxygen out of the story, is the theory of the case. And eventually people will be forced to sort of move on. If you don't give anything new oxygen, if you don't have any new information, they're going to shift to a different topic eventually. That's clearly the White House strategy here. And they're trying to move that along even further by having all of these other topics.

The President oftentimes posts sort of exactly what he's thinking about, but its notable that its coming at this time because it is an attempt to sort of have that flood the zone mentality that we've seen over the past six months with this administration.

BERMAN: You know, Anthony, some people point to a logical disconnect where they consider to be a logical disconnect here, which is, you know, why would Pam Bondi go out on a limb on this by not releasing something if the President really did want her to? I mean, why would she be taking all the hits on this if the President told her to release everything? Wouldn't she be releasing it?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, first of all, you know what the President says and then what he wants you to do are two different things. You know, Pete Hegseth thought that the President was in love with Elon Musk and wanted Elon Musk to have a briefing on the Defense Department's issues and policies related to China and the President got very upset about that.

So, I think the campaign rhetoric has to be separated from what the President really wants. And so, let's face it, they drop on a Sunday. I think this is where the MAGA base is most upset.

They drop on a Sunday after the Independence holiday that there's no list. Yet for four years, they chanted that there was a list and the Attorney General said that she had the list on her desk.

And so, until they can reconcile that, until they can fix that equation, John, you know, it'll still be out there. There'll be a solid 10 percent. Trust me, the President's got very good political instincts. He knows that there's a schism in MAGA. There'll be a solid 10 percent of those people that are now super upset, especially after "The Wall Street Journal" released that letter, they'll want to see more. They'll want to see fire where there's been smoke. But he's been great at snuffing these things out.

So, I don't know. If I were a betting person, I think this will -- you and I will be talking about something else three weeks from now.

BERMAN: And you're right. Go ahead. David.

URBAN: I was just going to say, you know, back where I grew up in Beaver County, Pennsylvania, the people who read "The Beaver County Times" aren't talking about Jeffrey Epstein, right? They're sending their kids to camp. They're thinking about vacations. They're worried about paying their bills.

The White House would love to be talking about how there are no tax on tips for working class folks. There's so many things that were in The Big, Beautiful Bill. The Genius Act just got signed. A lot of things that real people and real America talk about. The Epstein case is not one of them, I can tell you.

BERMAN: Well, but where that falls sometime short, David is when we hear from Josh Hawley saying that people are calling to his office asking questions about it. And we've heard, hang on, but we've heard other members say the same thing that they're getting overwhelming calls for it. So, I just don't know. On the one hand, I think you're right that people at home are focused on different things, but members of Congress are clearly hearing about this. And Shelby, to you. Go ahead, David.

URBAN: I was going to say, I think those are certain members of Congress. They've been calling for transparency long before this and that, you know, that's just, you know, the people who are calling Josh Hawley, I think, know who they're calling. And that's why they're calling them. There's a certain segment, as Anthony says, that certain 10 percent of the MAGA base, you know, knows how to dial the capital operator and put through calls.

BERMAN: Attorney General Pam Bondi, Shelby, how do you think -- where do you think she stands as we sit here on this Monday night?

TALCOTT: I think that Attorney General Pam Bondi has proven too much like pretty much everybody in Donald Trump's Cabinet this time around, she does what the President wants. And again, I do agree that there may be a difference with what the President says publicly versus what he says privately. We know that he wants this to go away. So, that doesn't necessarily jive with sort of the argument of, okay, well, if she wants to release more files, release more files, right.

In an ideal world, tomorrow nobody would be talking about Jeffrey Epstein if Donald Trump had his way. And Pam Bondi, I think at the end of the day, is going to do what the administration wants her to do.

BERMAN: All right, Shelby Talcott, Anthony Scaramucci -- go ahead, David, quickly.

URBAN: I was going to say, John, when those files get released, there's going to be big black marks through them all. It's going to be redacted beyond anybody's wildest dreams -- names, grand jury testimony, things are going to be people, witnesses, underage minors, right. It's going to be a lot of people, a lot of black spots on those testimony and these things that are being released. So, no one's ever going to be satisfied, no matter what Pam Bondi does and what Donald Trump does.

[20:20:23]

BERMAN: We'll see how they address that if and when it happens.

Thank you, one and all.

So, this Epstein controversy has created this unlikely common ground between some Republicans and some Democrats. I'm going to speak with former Obama White House chief of staff, former Mayor Of Chicago Rahm Emanuel, who is also ambassador to Japan and the Biden administration.

And later a former Louisville, Kentucky police officer, is sentenced for his role in the raid on Breonna Taylor's apartment. Despite a DOJ request that he be given no prison time. What the federal judge decided that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:25:12]

BERMAN: More on the breaking news tonight. The drumbeat of conservative lawmakers calling for increased transparency in the Jeffrey Epstein case. Missouri Senator Josh Hawley is the latest to call for congressional hearings, telling CNN that his constituents, "want to see all of this come out in the open." Over in the House, Speaker Mike Johnson doesn't sound like he's in any

kind of rush to take up the matter. Johnson tells CNN that he does not plan to allow any votes related to Epstein before the August recess. That includes a pending measure from his own party calling for the release of more documents.

Now, for his part, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries seems perfectly happy to needle his Republican colleagues whenever he can.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Donald Trump is running scared and the Trump administration is running scared. What are they hiding from the American people? Release the files.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I'm joined now by former Ambassador to Japan and Obama White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.

Ambassador, great to see you here.

Why is this still so much of a story? And what else could the White House be doing to control it?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, the best thing they could do is put the files out because that's what they claim. And they basically got a tiger by the tail. They set something up. They set up this whole conspiracy theory and it's not, I should catch myself because Miss Maxwell is in jail. A lot of women came forward, that's not a conspiracy theory. That's real, and it's very clear, it's real.

The files, they built this up put a lot of air in the tires, and now they basically said, there's nothing here. They've been more transparent with the JFK files, more transparent with the Martin Luther King files, and yet, this is a hide the ball strategy.

And second, it's inconsistent with what they told the American people. They said, basically we're going to clean the swamp and they look like they're basically, you know, basically the guardians of the swamp. They said on one, you know, The Big Beautiful Bill that they were going to help working families and it's a giveaway tax cuts to the wealthy. So, it's just another in the armor of where they have stabbed people in the back.

BERMAN: You heard the House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, talking about it. You saw the House Speaker Mike Johnson, push or kick the can down the road on a vote. They both want to be House Speaker after the next election. How do you think this issue will play in the midterms?

EMANUEL: Well, see, this will be a part of a litany. And here's what I don't quite understand what the White House is doing. If I was in the House Republican Caucus, I'd be very nervous about this.

When you have one party control, both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue, there is an architecture to that race. High energy by the opposition and you're seeing that in your own poll among Democrats. Independents breaking two to one for the opposition, you're seeing that play out also, not only in the polling, but in special elections. You have a lower turnout, historically when Trump's not on the ballot and a lower turnout from incumbent party.

Attacking the intellect of your own party is not going to inspire them to vote. Having another brick on the wall where you basically have told the base of your party, not only are they not smart, but you don't care about them like these cuts in healthcare, like what they what they've done on raising utility rates.

So to me, this won't be what decides it. I think it was a weird tact for the President to attack his own supporters and their intellect and their own interest in this, having built up their interest. So, I think it's going to actually depress the base even further when it has a lot weighing on it, and it's probably going to take a 20-mile an hour headwind and make it 70-miles an hour headwind.

BERMAN: You did something interesting today. You sat down with Megyn Kelly for a long time on her podcast. Megyn Kelly, of course, now I think a pretty conservative broadcaster. There are other Democrats who are doing similar things. Pete Buttigieg, Gavin Newsom, to a certain extent, going out there and talking to people who are more aligned with Donald Trump's base. Why do you think that's important?

EMANUEL: Well, first of all, before you -- if you want to be President of United States, you got to be President for the whole United States, not your party. Now, obviously, you're running for your nomination, if you decide to run.

And I said in that show in the beginning, she says, you know, blue or red. I said, well, I don't know, we're all Americans first. And sometimes we lose that and we lose that. Is there a tactic behind it in the sense of having a conversation going out, " counter scheduling"? Yes.

On the other hand, we talked about education and we fiercely you know, were fiercely agreeing with each other. We talked about -- I mean, I talked about the importance that there's three doors in a child's life. The front door of the home, front door of the school, the front door of the place of worship. And they're essential for a child's character, moral development and education.

She agreed with that. I guarantee you there's a lot of Democrats who agree with that. And sometimes we talk past each other and sometimes we don't listen. So, I thought it was important to do that, and I'll do more of it, and others will do more of it. And I actually think it will be good for America. And most importantly, probably be good for our political discourse.

BERMAN: You said if you want to be President of the United States, it does beg the follow up question, do you want to be President of the United States?

EMANUEL: We'll figure it out. Don't you worry. I mean, we'll figure there's plenty of time. To me, the one thing is we talk past each other. We get into a tribal period. We had a good conversation. We had a cross-section. We agreed on certain things, disagreed on others and we'll see.

[20:30:25]

BERMAN: One of the more interesting things that I saw over the course of that interview were there were things you disagreed on, you know, transgender bathrooms for instance or, you know, and you said we're just not going to agree on that and you moved on. How's -- we have to go soon, but how satisfying do you think that is for the Megyn Kellys of the world?

EMANUEL: Look, my -- this -- I've said this before, we spent way too much time on bathroom access and not enough on educational classroom excellence. That is the heart -- you're a parent, I'm a parent, what you care about is making sure that your kids can read, do math. We're at a 30-year low in reading scores and math scores.

Let us focus on the priorities that is important for that child's development and education because we live in a period where you earn what you learn. And I -- that's my view which is too much about a bathroom access and not enough about classroom excellence.

BERMAN: Rahm Emanuel, I look forward to more discussions and hearing what else you have to say on all of these subjects. Thanks so much for coming on.

EMANUEL: Thanks.

BERMAN: I appreciate it.

All right, more breaking news. Sentencing day for an ex-police officer involved in the deadly Breonna Taylor raid. What the judge decided after rebuffing a DOJ request for no prison time.

Plus, a second arrest after the shooting of an off-duty Border Patrol agent in a New York City park and the outrage directed at city officials from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and Border Czar Tom Homan who said so-called sanctuary cities are to blame.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:36:26]

BERMAN: A major development today in the aftermath of the death of Breonna Taylor. She was shot and killed during a botched police raid at her apartment back in 2020. Taylor's name became a rallying cry in the Black Lives Matter movement. Last year, former Louisville, Kentucky Police Officer, Brett Hankison, was convicted of one count of abusing Taylor's civil rights.

He fired 10 shots into her apartment. None of them hit anyone. Today, he was sentenced to nearly three years for his role in the raid. The first person to receive prison time in the case. And this is after the Justice Department recommended he get no time behind bars. CNN's Jason Carroll joins us with much more on this. Jason, what can you tell us about the sentencing and the reaction to it?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's start with this. Breonna Taylor's mother, John, stood outside that federal courthouse in Louisville, Kentucky, late this evening, and said she felt like she got some sort of justice. It wasn't, in her words, a fair sentence, but it was a start to getting some justice for her daughter.

This after Federal Judge Rebecca Jennings sentenced Brett Hankison to 33 months in prison for violating Breonna Taylor's civil rights, in addition to that, three years of probation. Far short of the life sentence he was initially facing.

Judge Jennings also criticized the U.S. Department of Justice, which had recommended Hankison serve, as you know, just one day for what he was found guilty of. The judge calling that recommendation not appropriate. Also saying she was startled that more people were not hurt during that botched raid back in March of 2020.

Now, the Taylor family attorney, as well as Taylor's mother, thanked the judge, but they also had harsh words for prosecutors, both Harmeet Dhillon and Robert Keenan, saying they added insult to injury during the sentencing.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BEN CRUMP, ATTORNEY: Never in my career as a lawyer had I heard the prosecutor argue so adamantly for a convicted felon who had been convicted by a jury who heard all the evidence.

TAMIKA PALMER, MOTHER OF BREONNA TAYLOR: I think the judge did the best she could with what she had to work with. There was no prosecution in there for us. There was no prosecution in there for Breonna. So I definitely, you know, I'm grateful for the judge for giving some time because we could have walked away with nothing according to what they recommended.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CARROLL: Hankison's legal team plans to appeal the sentencing. He will remain out on bond until the Bureau of Prisons decides exactly where he will serve and when he will have to turn himself in. John?

BERMAN: All right, Jason Carroll, thanks for bringing us up to date on all of that.

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem announced a second arrest today in the shooting of an off-duty Border Patrol agent during an apparent botched armed robbery in a New York City park over the weekend. DHS released this video of the incident. According to investigators, the officer, who was wearing plain clothes and sitting with a woman, was approached by two men on a moped who attempted to rob him. DHS says the officer drew his service weapon and exchanged fire with one of the suspects who was wounded and fled. The officer was shot in the face and arm but is expected to survive. Investigators say the suspected gunman on the left of your screen was taken into custody yesterday after arriving at a hospital with gunshot wounds.

And today, they arrested the other man involved. According to DHS, both suspects are undocumented immigrants with lengthy criminal records. Secretary Noem and Border Czar Tom Homan are criticizing city officials for the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

[20:40:02]

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Make no mistake, this officer is in the hospital today fighting for his life because of the policies of the mayor of this city and the city council and the people that were in charge of keeping the public safe, they refused to do so.

TOM HOMAN, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BORDER CZAR: Every sanctuary city is unsafe. I'll say it again, sanctuary cities are sanctuaries for criminals. And I'm going to work very hard for Secretary Noem to keep President Trump's promise and his commitment several weeks ago that sanctuary cities are now our priority. We're going to flood the zone.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: With us now, CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. He's a former NYPD Deputy Commissioner. John, what more are you learning about the officer's condition?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So the 42-year-old officer is in stable condition. Doctors are very confident that he's going to be OK. He was shot in the wrist with a 380 caliber semiautomatic round, but the one they're concerned about was he was shot in the face. That went through his cheek, broke his jaw, the bullet lodged in his throat.

One of the reasons he's had to communicate with hand signals, because he can't really speak at this point. They are probably going to move for some surgical procedure likely tomorrow to remove that bullet, a, the important part, so he can start the road to recovery, start to heal there, and they can get that out. And, b, that bullet's a critical piece of evidence if they recover that weapon or it matches to other shootings and they want it.

BERMAN: What more are you learning about the suspects and exactly how they were caught?

MILLER: So the first suspect was caught as they were going over various robbery patterns and MOs where these people would have both surfaced. But he was caught when he walked into a Bronx, New York hospital with a gunshot wound in the groin, which is exactly where the video shows the robber was hit. And then the further investigation was, OK, we've got this guy. He fits the description, fits the evidence, and his arrests fit the MO. They began to question friends, associates, family members to say, well, who does he hang out with? That got them to their second suspect, who also has a string of these arrests, what officials were referring to, where he keeps being arrested in these robberies and then let go by the courts.

BERMAN: So the White House is blaming New York City's immigration policies here. The mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, is sort of maybe a political ally-ish with the president now. I mean, what about the supposed common ground between President Trump and Mayor Adams?

MILLER: So this is the jackpot for Eric Adams, who, we must point out, is running for re-election. He is a person who fought the bail reform laws and these requirements that people not be held in jail and so on. And Democrats in the state legislature refused to bend very far on that.

He's one who's asked the city council to reconsider some aspects of the sanctuary city's laws and has pushed for things like allowing Customs and Border Protection to be on Rikers Island, where the prison is, to see, as people are being released, who do they have a detainer on. And he's taken a lot of heat for that.

But what he said today was, as the mayor, I don't control the state laws on criminal justice. And as the mayor, I don't pass the laws that the city council passes. I can argue with them.

But basically, if I'm helping the federal government, I'm in the pocket of Donald Trump. And if I am fighting them, then it's all my fault. And that's what -- that's where he is.

BERMAN: John Miller, great to see you tonight. Thank you very much.

MILLER: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: All right, what you never expected to hear from a pilot just before landing, an apology for an aggressive maneuver to avoid a B-52.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They caught me by surprise. This is not normal at all. I don't know why they didn't give us a heads up.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: What happened to those scary moments? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:48:45]

BERMAN: A just terrifying moment aboard a flight. The pilot of a Delta Air Lines regional jet apologized to passengers after he says he was forced to make an aggressive maneuver to avoid colliding with a B-52 bomber. Details from CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, here she comes, the venerable B-52 Stratofortress.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A B-52 bomber flying over the North Dakota State Fair, but around the same time, a commercial plane full of passengers is trying to land at the nearby civilian airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For those of you on the right-hand side, you probably saw the airplane kind of sort of coming at us.

TODD (voice-over): The civilian pilot is almost chillingly matter-of- fact as he talks about the harrowing close call that just occurred.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It caught me by surprise. This is not normal at all.

TODD (voice-over): The Delta Air Lines regional jet operated by SkyWest Airlines on Friday flying from Minneapolis to Minot, North Dakota. The B-52 flyover was advertised for 7:40 p.m. local time, which was roughly the same time the SkyWest plane was landing. The fairgrounds just a half mile from the civilian airport.

The civilian pilot said the control tower told him to turn right, but that's when he says he saw the military aircraft on the right-hand side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The airplane that was kind of coming on a converging course with us. So given his speed, it was a military, I don't know how fast they were going, but they were a lot faster than us. I felt that was the safest thing to do to turn behind it. So sorry about the aggressive maneuver.

[20:50:08]

TODD (voice-over): This audio was captured by passenger Monica Green, who said the flight was getting ready to land when she felt the plane jerk.

MONICA GREEN, PASSENGER ON FLIGHT: But it was such a hard U-turn to where we were going kind of straight and then went pretty sideways. I'd be looking out the window and just see straight grass. I wouldn't be seeing the horizon anymore because we were so sideways.

TODD (voice-over): The video of the flyover appears to show a plane turning sharply in the distance. However, it's impossible to tell if this is the SkyWest plane. It's the latest of several incidents between military and civilian planes.

In March, a collision alert sounded in a Delta jet flying out of Ronald Reagan National Airport in Washington as T-38 military jets flew over nearby Arlington National Cemetery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there an actual aircraft about 500 feet below us coming off of DCA?

TODD (voice-over): Those planes came within 5 seconds of colliding. And in January, a close call turned deadly when a military Blackhawk helicopter and an American Airlines regional jet collided near Reagan National Airport, killing 67 people.

TODD: Why are we still having so many problems de-conflicting military and civilian flights?

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Well, there's enough blame to go around on both sides. The military could do a better job dealing with the civilian side of the equation, letting them know when they have special occurrences, when they've got missions that conflict into the civilian airspace. And on the civilian side, there is a shortage of air traffic controllers. The system is overstressed.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

TODD (on-camera): The FAA is now investigating this incident, but we have to say that the control tower involved in this at the civilian airport in Minot is not a tower that's operated by the FAA. It is operated by a private contractor called Midwest ATC, and that contractor has not commented to CNN when asked to comment on this incident.

John?

BERMAN: All right, Brian Todd, thank you very much.

Just ahead, the tragic death of actor Malcolm-Jamal Warner at the age of 54. We have new details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:42]

BERMAN: We learned today the tragic death of a beloved star from one of TV's biggest hits of the 80s and 90s. Authorities say actor Malcolm-Jamal Warner, best known for his role as Theo Huxtable on The Cosby Show, died in an accidental drowning off the coast of Costa Rica. He was just 54 years old.

A source close to Warner says the actor was on vacation with his family. He started his career at just 9 years old before being cast in his early teens on The Cosby Show.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

MALCOLM-JAMAL WARNER, ACTOR: Is this my shirt? Is this the shirt I paid $30 for? Is this a shirt they're supposed to think is a Gordon Gartrell?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you like it?

WARNER: Ask me the question again.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: With us now is ExtraTV Host and Senior Correspondent Mona Kosar Abdi. Thanks so much for being here. What more are you learning about his death?

MONA KOSAR ABDI, HOST & SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, EXTRATV: So far we're learning that he was in Costa Rica and that he -- authorities there are saying that there were high tides and that he died. His cause of death right now is listed as asphyxiation. And, I mean, the news just came as a shock.

He's 54 years old, first of all, and he grew up on our screens. A lot of even celebrities that were writing memories and sending their condolences were fans first. Tracee Ellis Ross, for example, said, he played my first TV husband. They did a show together called Reed Between the Lines. But she also said that she was first introduced to him as Theo Huxtable.

So Theo Huxtable, of course, from The Cosby Show, he was the lovable, he was the funny only son of Cliff and Claire Huxtable, played by Phylicia Rashad and Bill Cosby. He was just charismatic and jumped of the screen -- jumped out of the screen at such a young age, too. But he had a 40-year career.

He was also a Grammy award-winning musician. He was also a poet. And so he was -- and also in other successful shows as well. So this news came as a shock because just two years ago, he was nominated for a Grammy. And a lot of people just remembering that scene that you guys just played there immediately comes to mind when we see The Cosby Show. And you said you had memories yourself.

BERMAN: Look, I'm almost the same age as he is. And so, when I, you know, in the mid-1980s, you know, I was watching him grow up as I was growing up on TV. And I don't think people can fully appreciate how big that show was at a time when everyone used to actually sit down and watch TV shows. I mean, it just was huge.

KOSAR ABDI: Yes, it was huge. And I think particularly for black families, right? It was a representation that at the time, we didn't see. And particularly what Theo Huxtable represented was black boyhood in a way that wasn't rife with stereotype. That he was just a kid who was trying to figure it out. He had great style.

His biggest problem was piercing his ears and hiding it from his parents. So he was very relatable. And even if you couldn't relate to the lifestyle, it was something that, it was just innocent fun and humor. And seeing that portrayal of a middle-class black family was something that we didn't see at the time and paved the way for other black shows. Like, for example, Family Matters.

BERMAN: Yes. Listen, obviously things happened with Bill Cosby after that. What did Malcolm-Jamal Warner, we've got a few seconds left --

KOSAR ABDI: Yes.

BERMAN: -- ultimately say about all that? KOSAR ABDI: So he did acknowledge that, obviously, it did complicate the legacy of the show. But what he did is he always reflected on his role with such thoughtfulness and care and knew what it meant and what the legacy of the show meant outside of just the legal issues that he was -- that Bill Cosby brought to the show. But he always knew the impact that his character had and he embraced it, even though he had other successful shows he was part of.

BERMAN: You know what? And it did have an impact. Malcolm-Jamal Warner just 54 years old. That is a tragedy. May his memory be a blessing.

Mona Kosar Abdi, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate your time. Big fan of your work.

KOSAR ABDI: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: All right, a lot going on tonight. The news continues, so The Source starts right now.