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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
House Panel Subpoenas DOJ Over Epstein Files; House Oversight Committee Subpoenas Ghislaine Maxwell for Deposition; DOJ Forms "Strike Force" Aimed at Investigating Obama Administration Claims Surrounding Russia's 2016 Election Interference; Bryan Kohberger Was Sentenced Today to Life in Prison Without Parole; Appeals Court Rules Trump's Birthright Citizenship Order is Unconstitutional; W.H.O. Chief Says Gaza Suffering Man-made Mass Starvation; Coca-cola Company Would Be Creating a Separate Coke Product That Includes Cane Sugar. Aired 8- 9p ET
Aired July 23, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ...the proceedings were chance to get some semblance of closure, the final end to a brutal legal saga.
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MIRACLE (on camera): And, Erin, those newly released documents painting a picture of Kohberger's personality, a coworker called him intelligent but selfish, and a woman he was chatting with on Tinder said she was so disturbed she cut off communication with him after he asked her what she thought were the worst ways to die. We expect more documents to be unsealed in the coming weeks and months now that this case has concluded -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Veronica, thank you, so much, from Boise, and thanks so all of you for being with us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:41]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, the breaking news, President Trump told his name is in the Jeffrey Epstein files and Republicans are making moves to subpoena those files from the Department of Justice. The one the President was told his name is in.
Plus, heartbreaking testimony from the families of Bryan Kohberger's victims before he was sentenced to life in prison.
And later, more than 100 aid organizations warned of mass starvation in Gaza. We will speak to a frontline doctor who was just there about the situation on the ground.
Good evening, John Berman here in for Anderson, and the breaking news, a blunt headline: President Trump was told by the Attorney General that he is in the Jeffrey Epstein files. He was told he was in the files two months ago. And then last week said, no, no, he wasn't -- he was.
This was during a briefing on the findings of the Justice Department's review of the documents related to Epstein. That's according to sources familiar with the discussion. Those sources said the Justice Department's review found that the files appeared to include several unsubstantiated claims that they determined not to be credible, including those relating to Trump.
Bondi also raised in the meeting that several names of other high profile figures were mentioned, the official said, and it's worth noting that being mentioned in the files does not in any way indicate wrongdoing. "The Wall Street Journal" who first reported this story, said that A.G. Bondi, who was joined in the briefing by her deputy, Todd Blanche, who previously served as President Trump's attorney in the criminal hush money trial.
The briefing took place in May, weeks before the Justice Department released a memo on July 6th attempting to close the book on Jeffrey Epstein, which said, "No further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted". That memo kicked up a furor in the President's supporters, among them that continues to this day.
CNN reached out to the White House about "The Journal" report. Their response read in part: This is nothing more than a continuation of the fake news stories concocted by the Democrats in the liberal media. That was their response. But we now know the President was told he was in the files, which he was specifically asked about last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What did she tell you about the review and specifically, did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the files.
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, no. She's given us just a very quick briefing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: No, no -- he says. We asked the Justice Department for reaction to the reporting. Attorney General Pam Bondi and Deputy A.G. Todd Blanche, the two officials in that briefing, according to "The Wall Street Journal," they released a statement: The DOJ and FBI reviewed the Epstein files and reached the conclusion set out in the July 6th memo, nothing in the files warranted further investigation or prosecution, and we filed a motion in court to unseal the underlying grand jury transcripts. As part of our routine briefing, we made the President aware of the findings.
This report comes as some Republicans on the Hill continue to push for more information. This afternoon, the House Oversight Committee officially subpoenaed Ghislaine Maxwell for a deposition. It's scheduled for August 11th at the Federal Correctional Institution in Tallahassee, where she's currently serving a 20-year sentence. And late tonight, a subcommittee went even further, they voted to subpoena the Justice Department for the Epstein files. This all happened despite Speaker Mike Johnson shutting down the House a day early to avoid floor votes on any Epstein related matters. Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace, who voted to subpoena the Justice Department, was asked about Speaker Johnson's move. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What do you think of the speaker adjourning the House early to avoid this whole fight over Epstein?
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): This fight is coming no matter, I mean, this is here, and I made it part of my life's mission to protect women and kids and I think that, you know, I'm ready to take this vote. I think we should take this vote and move forward. Move this country forward and the victims deserve justice, and people deserve transparency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Also today, a federal judge in Florida denied the Justice Department's request to release grand jury documents from the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. That request came at the direction of President Trump late last week in an attempt to quell some of the outrage from his biggest supporters.
Well, the judge's ruling is not the last word in grand jury testimony about Epstein. It does underline a glaring fact in all of this. The attorney general has the power today, tonight, right now, to release other information in the so-called Epstein files sitting at the Justice Department.
Sure, they would have to be carefully reviewed and redacted, but she is not doing that and the President is not really forcing her.
For more on all this, let's go to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Again, where a subcommittee just voted to subpoena the files. The files, Manu, we learned that President Trump told his name is in.
[20:05:26]
RAJU: Yes and look, this issue has completely consumed the House GOP and undermined the Republican agenda and forced the Speaker of the House, essentially to shut down the floor of the House because of the divisions within the GOP. Democrats exploiting those divisions, trying to push votes on Epstein related matters. That's why the Speaker does not want to move forward with this, because Republicans would join with Democrats on these issues. But he could not stop what happened in that subcommittee today. Democrats blindsided Republicans and offered up a motion calling for a subpoena for all Epstein files.
There were enough Republicans, ultimately, three Republicans who voted in favor of these Epstein files because they have long calls for them themselves. One of them was Congressman Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, a conservative member, someone who aligns himself very much with Donald Trump and the MAGA wing of the party. I asked him why he got behind this, despite Donald Trump's call to move on. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): I just think it's important that the American people know what's occurred here.
RAJU: The President wants to move on, though. He says it's time to move on.
SCOTT: I have been very clear on my opinion on this issue for a long time.
RAJU: Okay, are your constituents clamoring for this information?
SCOTT: Some are. Yes.
REP. CLAY HIGGINS (R-LA): I've never handled a subpoena like this. You understand, this is some -- it's some fascinating stuff and it has to be handled legally and ethically within the parameters of our rules. So, I don't profess to know what all those details are, including the timing. But I assure you it will be working together in a bipartisan manner to make certain that that every word is perfect and reflective of what our agreements were today.
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RAJU: And that last comment coming from Congressman Clay Higgins, who's the chairman of the subcommittee overseeing that vote to subpoena the Epstein files. He actually voted against this measure, but he indicated they have to move forward on it given the vote that happened in the committee. And, John, as part of the call for the Justice Department, the Trump Justice Department to turn over the Epstein files.
They also included language in there Republicans did to target Joe Biden official communications with Justice Department officials over the Epstein matter, and as well as to depose some big figures like former President Bill Clinton, like Hillary Clinton, James Comey and others. So this is a sweeping subpoena, John. The question is how quickly can they get that information? And how much will the Trump Justice Department cooperate with Republicans in Congress?
BERMAN: Yes, that's a big question tonight. Manu Raju, thank you very much.
Perspective now from former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin, former federal prosecutor Elie Honig and journalist and Lift Our Voices co-founder Gretchen Carlson. Alyssa, I just want to start again with the timeline here, okay? The Justice Department reviews the so-called Epstein files. Attorney General Pam Bondi, we now know, tells President Trump he's in the Epstein files.
Elon musk tweets after that that, you know, the President is in the Epstein files. Then the Justice Department releases this memo saying, we're not going to tell you any more America about the Epstein files. President Trump is asked if he was told these in the Epstein files. He says, no. And so, were here tonight where were learning that President Trump was told.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, this is a classic case of the cover-up making matters even worse than they already were. Donald Trump's strategy with P.R. generally is deny, deny, deny. And I suspect that White House comms advisers around him said, why don't we just get out in front of it? When once they knew this information, he was in them.
It's been a known fact for years that Jeffrey Epstein was a former associate of Donald Trump's. They could have said his name appears. There's no allegations of wrongdoing. There are things he could have said that could have distanced him and kind of made this a smaller story until something more is made public, which I'm not convinced it ever will be considering who runs the Justice Department. But instead this drip, drip, drip has just added to the public furor in this belief that there's this cover up at the highest levels, which is what inspired the very followers who are mad about this, to want these releases in the first place. It's not going to be going away anytime soon.
BERMAN: And Gretchen, when the President is asked that question directly, were you told your name is in the Epstein files? And his answer is no, no. What questions does that now raise for you?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: A million others, because what's happened now is that this has left just the MAGA base caring about this. This is now in pop culture. If you ask Americans if they knew about this story three weeks ago, the majority would have said no. Now, they're mostly saying they do and like any good investigation, they want to know more details. So, now you've left the political sphere, which was a small inside the beltway realm, and now you're out into the general public, colossal P.R. error.
And if you looked at what Donald Trump said that day after he said, no, no -- he immediately blamed President Obama and James Comey. So, you know, that that -- he knew he was going to be asked it and in the back of his mind, he was already -- he had the story line for his base.
[20:10:27]
BERMAN: All right, Elie, a few legal procedural questions here. Number one, your name is in the Epstein files. Not yours --
CARLSON: Not Elie's.
BERMAN: What does that mean?
CARLSON: Something you want to tell us?
BERMAN: What does that mean exactly? What doesn't it mean? And then one follow up.
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, it means he's name in Epstein files, it is important to know. It's not good if this ever comes out, he will definitely have some very uncomfortable explaining to do. Why at least he was associated with a guy who was running the largest child sex trafficking network in modern history. It does not necessarily mean Donald Trump committed a crime. It doesn't -- certainly, does not necessarily mean that DOJ has a ready-made case that could be made indicting Donald Trump for that. So, it's a very big deal. But it's important that we keep it in perspective.
BERMAN: Yes, legally speaking, it doesn't indicate he did any wrongdoing at all or knew of any wrongdoing. And maybe in fact shows he didn't know of any wrongdoing. And if the Justice Department wanted to clear that up tonight, and if President Trump wanted to clear that up tonight, if they wanted the American people to see how President Trump's name was mentioned in the Epstein files tonight, right now, what could they do?
HONIG: Okay, I want to make sure people understand this, conceptualize all of the entirety of the Epstein files. It's a little bit of an oversimplification, but let's just call it all the Epstein files. We don't know how much of this is grand jury material. In my experience, it would be very small. Let's say -- let's round up and say 10 percent, 10 percent is grand jury. The other 90 percent is non-grand jury materials, meaning Donald Trump Pam Bondi the administration could order publicly disclose that 90 percent right now like that.
And now, Congress has really put DOJ in an even tighter spot by subpoenaing that. So now DOJ is going to have to either comply with that subpoena or fight it, which will make them look even worse. And if we think about where would Donald Trump's name be in that files? Almost certainly in the 90 percent, the 90 percent that is in the unilateral control of DOJ. And isn't it interesting that where DOJ has focused is only on that 10 percent, That's not in their control.
CARLSON: Which the judge denied today, right.
HONIG: Right.
BERMAN: And to that point, where do you think that now puts the pressure? A judge said it may not be the final word because there's more grand jury testimony. Another judge will run, but if no grand jury testimony comes out, that puts pressure on --
CARLSON: For the last seven days, I've been saying to myself immense pressure on Trump and Bondi now, because you're not going to get any drip, drip from the grand jury at all, even if that didn't have a lot of information.
Now, tremendous pressure to release it. Why are they not releasing it? I mean, why is the big question to me, is there something else that has nothing to do with what we think it might have something to do with? Is there something else in there? Because it is absolutely a colossal error to let this continue in this fashion, and to think that the House going home on recess for five weeks is going to solve this. They've got to go home to their constituents, who now are going to be more mad about this than ever before.
GRIFFIN: And to Gretchen's point, there was sort of these sort of conspiracies or ideas floating that perhaps there was some sort of tie to the CIA, to other entities of Jeffrey Epstein. Today you have the director of National Intelligence appearing in the White House briefing room, saying there's no evidence to suggest that.
The one thing that could they could potentially hide behind if it were, in fact, the truth, which I have no evidence that it is, is if perhaps things related to him are law enforcement sensitive, if it's something that he in some way was an informant to law enforcement, but they've basically ruled out the National Security element today, with Tulsi Gabbard appearing in the White House briefing room, which I didn't ever think that was the case, but I think that's something the MAGA base maybe would have bought if they wanted to throw that catnip out there.
BERMAN: You know, the other day, Alyssa, the President was saying, no, no one really cares about this, right? Do you think these members heading home to their districts tonight think that?
GRIFFIN: They absolutely do and I think this was a strategic mistake by Mike Johnson. I understand he had to pause the floor, but I found in my time working in Congress, when you send members home, you know what they do. They hear from their constituents, and their constituents are going to be worked up about this. They feel like it's a betrayal. They feel like they're being lied to.
And Donald Trump doesn't have to run for reelection again. He doesn't need to care about poll numbers or who's voting for him. But all these members of Congress in the House, they're up in one year and four months, and this is going to matter to them.
BERMAN: And Elie, you mentioned this subpoena right now is out of the subcommittee. But, you know, if this comes what happens, I mean, where does that go?
HONIG: So ,in any ordinary case, DOJ would resist a subpoena like that. DOJ has had many showdowns with Congress over the years, essentially, DOJ's position usually is we don't open up our investigative files to you, Congress, unless there's some compelling legislative need. Not just everyone who wants to know, we're all going to get blitzed when we go back home to our town halls. But his DOJ really going to fight this subpoena. I mean, how horrible would that look?
BERMAN: And, Gretchen, I want to give credit because you're the first person who raised this directly. The Elon Musk tweet, now, in retrospect, right. The reporting is that President Trump was told his name was in the files in May in the Elon Musk tweet, the bombshell where he said President Trump is in the Epstein files was after that.
[20:15:24]
CARLSON: Yes, June fifth, the President was supposedly told about this in May. One has to wonder who Elon Musk is working with right now. And I would also just like to add that I think it's fascinating that it's "The Wall Street Journal" again, that breaks the story today, because where does that put Trump with Murdoch? Murdoch ain't stopping on putting these stories out. So, I think today this is a victory for Murdoch because Trump's going to be deposed. That's going to be the first thing that's going to happen if this goes forward. I also think it's highly interesting that a former Biden official wrote an op-ed where today? Fox News.com. Stay tuned.
BERMAN: A little something about Fox News. You know, just finally, I've just been stunned that every day you keep thinking, is there going to be one day where the administration doesn't sort of step on itself over the Epstein case, and we just haven't had it in a long time?
GRIFFIN: We haven't had it. The one thing I was surprised about is that this information was given to the President in May, and it took until now to leak to the press. That speaks to a level of discipline that didn't always exist in the first term, but the fact that in that reporting in "The Wall Street Journal", it also says that the FBI director had been talking to elected officials around Washington, saying that Trump was in the Epstein files.
So, the universe of people who are aware of this is much larger, and it means that there's likely more information that's going to become public.
BERMAN: Again, not necessarily surprising, given what we know about their relationship and not necessarily incriminating, which makes it all the more interesting that it's taken this long to come out and that he said, no, no, he was never told.
Thank you all, fascinating discussion.
Next, how the President and others on team Trump keep trying to change the subject. The director of national intelligence, the aforementioned Tulsi Gabbard, appeared at today's White House press briefing. What she had to say about former President Obama and the 2016 election ahead.
And, later, heart wrenching and powerful statements read in court from family and surviving roommates of the four University of Idaho students who were murdered in their home as their killer gets sentenced to life in prison without parole.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DYLAN MORTENSEN, SURVIVING ROOMMATE: He took away my ability to trust the world around me. What he did shattered me in places I didn't know could break. I was barely 19 when he did this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:55]
BERMAN: As President Trump continues to face questions regarding his connections to Jeffrey Epstein, the administration seems determined to shift the focus elsewhere. Late today, the Justice Department announced what it calls a Strike Force dedicated to investigating Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard's accusation that members of the Obama administration, including then President Obama himself, manufactured -- that's her word -- intelligence, about Russia's 2016 election interference. Gabbard also today declassified a congressional report about the 2016 election she claimed was more evidence of a treasonous conspiracy before later making her case to the White House press corps.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: President Obama directed an Intelligence Community Assessment to be created to further this contrived false narrative that ultimately led to a years-long coup to try to undermine President Trump's presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, Gabbard claims the newly declassified report contradicts the intelligence community's conclusion that Russia wanted to swing the 2016 election toward Donald Trump, Gabbard points to what she says is new evidence that Russia did not hack into voting machines and change votes for Trump.
The problem with that is that the Intelligence Community never claimed Russia changed votes. It determined Russia engaged in a social media influence campaign and hacked Hillary Clinton's e-mails to try to swing the 2016 election toward Trump. That conclusion, by the way, was endorsed at the time by the then head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Marco Rubio.
With us now to discuss what, again, seems like a pretty obvious attempt to change the news cycle, former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin and CNN's senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe, who is also the former deputy director of the FBI.
All right, Jeffrey, just on its face, what did you see today with that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, AUTHOR AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It's really shocking to see someone whose title is the director of national intelligence saying something that is so obviously false. I mean, it is beyond dispute that Russia tried to help Donald Trump win the 2016 election. Every investigation has shown that, including the one that Marco Rubio signed on to, the Mueller report says it, everybody says it and the idea that we are -- that they are trying to re-litigate this almost a decade later is, as we always used to say about the first Trump term, shocking but not surprising.
BERMAN: And just Andrew, again, the merits and the optics of what she's saying -- on the merits part of what she's saying -- is that, oh, we uncovered evidence that all this analysis was rushed and pushed and not verified and did it in unusual ways. What do you have to say to that?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I guess if those are the merits, on the merits, I'd give her an F. As you, as Jeff just stated, the conclusions that are memorialized in the ICA very clearly established our concerns at that time that the Russians had engaged in multiple lines of activity, active measures to have an influence on the campaign. That was proven absolutely, without a doubt, to be accurate by every investigation Jeff just mentioned.
And I would include, of course, Special Counsel Mueller, who spent two years in interviewing hundreds of people and indicted and prosecuted over two dozen people in the course of that investigation and concluded that the Russians had engaged in a sweeping and systematic effort to infect and affect our election.
[20:25:21]
At no time did we ever conclude that the Russians succeeded in entering voting machines and changing the vote tally. And I will also say that in almost every briefing we gave to the Hill, we were asked, do you think that all of this activity that the Russians engaged in and did successfully, like the hacking and dumping, like sending undercovers here, like creating the internet research agency to manipulate public opinion, did those activities have an effect on the outcome of the election? And every single time we said we don't opine on that, that is political analysis. We don't engage in political analysis. All we are here to do is to tell you what we know the Russians did and why they tried to do it and we stand by those conclusions to this day.
BERMAN: All right, Jeffrey, again, I just want to play something that Karoline Leavitt said at the news conference today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Does President Trump believe that President Obama should go to jail for something?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, the President believes that this matter needs to be thoroughly investigated and anyone convicted of crimes should be held accountable in this country
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right.
TOOBIN: Just by the way, thanks to Trump, the United States, the Supreme Court's decision last year, that Barack Obama, even if he committed a crime, which there's no evidence that he did, couldn't be prosecuted. So, the idea that he should be investigated is just absurd on so many different levels.
BERMAN: And again, so we've already given like four minutes to what Tulsi Gabbard, the director of National Intelligence, press secretary, saying today, how much of this, Jeffrey, do you think is distraction?
TOOBIN: It seems like it's a lot. I mean, I don't have insight into their political thinking. I'm not a political analyst. But look, I mean, the President has been unusually flustered by this. You know, Donald Trump is usually in charge of what the news media reports.
He's obviously flustered by the fact that, you know, we continue to report about the Epstein thing. So, he comes up with this absolutely ridiculous idea of prosecuting Barack Obama. But, you know, it gets people to talk about it and his supporters, I guess believe it.
BERMAN: And, Andrew, how would you describe the difference in the amount of information that's been released by Tulsi Gabbard the last couple days or last weeks, compared with the information that hasn't been released in the so-called Epstein files?
MCCABE: Yes, there's no comparison there. We haven't seen anything from Epstein files. And at this rate, it's unlikely anyone ever will. But I would also maybe challenge you, John, on your characterization of her release of information. This is not information. This is propaganda. This entire thing is, as you said, a massive distraction technique.
When the conspiracy theory about legions of powerful Democrats who are in league with Jeffrey Epstein is now not working for them, they go back to the greatest hit of all time, which is what the Russians did in 2016 and how, you know, what our investigation to try to preserve the integrity of a U.S. Presidential election is somehow a personal insult to Donald Trump.
This happens every time. None of us are surprised by it. We've all seen it a million times. The problem for him is that the truth is never going to change. What we found, what we were concerned about, what we found, what was confirmed will always remain what it is. Tulsi Gabbard is simply an opportunist in this play, right.
Her star is falling. Her analysis was thrown out the window on Iran. She embarrassed herself with that somewhat bizarre video about nuclear weapons in Japan. And so, she's using this as an opportunity to get herself back into favor with the White House. That's my personal assessment. But, you know, this is -- this seems to be kind of the state of the union for what we are in right now.
TOOBIN: It's worth remembering that we need an intelligence operation in this country. There's terrorism out there. There are environmental crimes. If this is the level of intelligence that were getting from the DNI, the Director of National Intelligence on this subject, it makes you wonder about what else we're going to get from them.
BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin, Andrew McCabe, thanks for being with us tonight.
All right next, the sister of one of the murdered Idaho students delivers a powerful message to the killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALIVEA GONCALVES, KAYLEE GONCALVES' SISTER: Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered, just because someone finally said your name out loud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:30:05]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Bryan Kohberger, the man convicted in the horrific murders of four University of Idaho students, was sentenced today to life in prison without parole. This comes after he entered a plea deal earlier this month, allowing him to avoid trial and to avoid the death penalty. It was an incredibly emotional day in court as friends and families of the victims stood in the same room as the killer, delivering impact statements about the toll the murders have taken on their lives.
When given the opportunity to speak by the Judge, Kohberger only said three words, I respectfully decline.
[20:35:00]
For now, the families and the Idaho community have to struggle with the fact that they may never know why he took the lives of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Kaylee Goncalves, and Madison Mogen. CNN's Jean Casarez has more on what happened in court.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DYLAN MORTENSEN, SURVIVING ROOMMATE: I should have been having the college experience and starting to establish my future. Instead, I was forced to learn how to survive the unimaginable. I had to sleep in my mom's bed because I was too terrified to close my eyes.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The surviving roommate sharing the trauma they say they have endured since that tragic night.
EMILY ALANDT, READING SURVIVING ROOMMATE BETHANY FUNKE'S STATEMENT: I slept in my parents' room for almost a year. I made them double lock every door, set an alarm, and still check everywhere in the room just in case someone was hiding
MORTENSEN: Woody had shattered me in places I didn't know could break.
CASAREZ (voice-over): And family member after family member expressing their pain.
SCOTT LARAMIE, STEPFATHER OF MADISON MOGEN: We will grow old without our only child, our bright, beautiful friend and daughter.
KRISTI GONCALVES, MOTHER OF KAYLEE GONCALVES: The emotional toll you've inflicted on me is immeasurable. I live with a constant ache, with birthdays that are now memorials, with holidays that feel hollow, with empty chairs that scream louder than words ever could.
CASAREZ (voice-over): And their anger, victim Kaylee Goncalves' father moving the lectern to direct his comments directly to his daughter's killer, dramatically shifting the tone in the courtroom. STEVE GONCALVES, FATHER OF KAYLEE GONCALVES: The world's watching because of the kids, not because of you. Nobody cares about you. You're not worth the time, the effort to be remembered. In time, you will be nothing but two initials, forgotten to the wind, no visitors, nothing more than initials on an otherwise unmarked tombstone.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Perhaps the most striking statement coming from Kaylee Goncalves' sister.
A. GONCALVES: You're a textbook case of insecurity disguised as control. Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The convicted killer appeared emotionless while in court and declined to address the court when given the chance.
JUDGE STEVEN HIPPLER, IDAHO 4TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT: The time has now calmed to end Mr. Kohberger's 15 minutes of fame. It's time that he be consigned to the ignominy and isolation of perpetual incarceration.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The judge not sparing his own harsh words for the killer.
HIPPLER: I'm unable to come up with anything redeeming about Mr. Kohberger because his grotesque acts of evil have buried and hidden anything that might have been good or intrinsically human about him.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Sentencing him to life in prison without the possibility of parole for all four counts of murder, plus fines and 10 years for the burglary charge.
HIPPLER: I will not attempt to speak about him further other than to simply sentence him, so that he's forever removed from civilized society
CASAREZ (voice-over): And as he heads to prison, he does so with the parting words of the families he tried to silence.
A. GONCALVES: I see through you. You want the truth. Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep, in the middle of the night, like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: And Jean Casarez joins us now. So Jean, what is next for the victim's families?
CASAREZ (on camera): Well, they're leaving Boise because they don't live in this area. Some of them have foundations and they will focus on those. Others are saying that they're moving on, that they have to, but they live every day remembering this. One thing we have not heard of at all that happens so frequently in cases like this, civil suits, wrongful death suits, those potentially could be filed. And also, something that people haven't brought up, but Kohberger crossed state lines from Washington to Idaho to commit these murders. And he purchased the murder weapon on Amazon, a part of interstate commerce. So potentially, the federal government could look at certain aspects of this case, even if it comes down to a potential stalking of the home.
BERMAN: Jean Casarez for us in Idaho tonight. Jean, thank you very much for all the work you've done on this story. With us now, former FBI Special Agent and Professor of Criminology at the University of South Florida, Bryanna Fox, and CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller.
You know John, it is a very dramatic day. Were you surprised that Kohberger declined to speak? And based on what you know of killers like this, what do you think he was thinking over the course of this day?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Not surprised that he declined to speak. one of the characteristics we see in a killer like this is the need for dominance, the need for control, and simply by not speaking, he maintained that control.
[20:40:00]
What was he thinking? If he is typical of this type of offender, while they were describing in gut wrenching emotional testimony, the horrific aspects of these killings, he was probably reliving those killings in his head like a movie. These killers go back to the scenes. They revisit these things in any way they can, and I think that the emotional testimony of these families simply provided background music, probably to something he has relived many times since.
BERMAN: Even more horrifying. Bryanna, again, so dramatic, the father of Kaylee Goncalves turning his lectern, so that he could face the killer directly and look him in the eye. Anything surprise you today?
BRYANNA FOX, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I have seen many victim impact statements being delivered, and I think these are some of the most impactful I've ever heard. The intensity, the sheer pain that was conveyed, frankly, I think Alivea Goncalves is going to be a hero to many people. She was frankly savage and it was incredible.
BERMAN: I mean, and one does hope, and this is the conundrum here, one does hope, Bryanna, that those are the names, the names of the victims, the names of the victims' families that will be remembered, correct?
FOX: It was, I think, exactly the way it should have been done. They made it to be about them while Bryan Kohberger, BK as they preferred we reference him as, was sitting there and trying to maintain that dominance as John Miller stated. They made sure they took it back and I thought that was fantastic.
BERMAN: So we did learn a number of new details today, John, like Kohberger wiping his phone before investigators could find any evidence. He apparently shut down in his initial interview with law enforcement. Has law enforcement learned anything from this that can help prevent the next killing?
MILLER: Well, they're constantly studying, as we referenced before, those offender characteristics, to see if people like this can be identified ahead of time in the early stages of this kind of targeting. But, it's not what they learned, it's what he learned. He went and got a Master's Degree and was on his way to his PhD in Criminal Justice. He was both obsessed with this kind of violence, isolated and alienated from other people, had trouble maintaining relationships and friends.
But John, what did he do? He immersed himself in other killings. He did studies of different kinds of violence. He freaked people out by asking them what was the worst way you could think of to die. He immersed himself in the learning about the criminal justice system that he was basically going to take on by probably trying to become a serial killer. We still don't know if this was his first crime.
It's very rare for someone to start off with essentially a mass murder as their first crime. But, he applied all that knowledge by shutting down his phone before he went out to avoid tracking, by wiping his phone when he was taken into custody. He used all the knowledge he could. Brilliant investigation though, really talented investigators. Really good work that brought him to justice.
BERMAN: And that's what I think the families want everyone to remember. They were smarter than him.
MILLER: Right. He learned a lot, but he didn't learn enough.
BERMAN: John Miller, thank you. Professor Fox, thank you so much. Don't miss more on today's sentencing hearing in the Idaho murders case tonight on a Special Hour of Laura Coates Live. It's at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.
Coming up here, the Head of the World Health Organization, more than 100 aid groups say there is mass starvation in Gaza as Israel is urged again to end its blockade. I'm going to speak with a doctor who just returned from Gaza.
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[20:48:30]
BERMAN: We do have breaking news tonight on President Trump's attempt to end birthright citizenship. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has just declared the president's executive order to be unconstitutional. This is the first time a court at that level has ruled on the merits of the controversy. In doing so, it upheld a lower court's nationwide injunction against the president. The dispute is almost certainly headed back now to the Supreme Court.
Harsh words from the Head of the World Health Organization who says Palestinians are suffering a man-made mass starvation due to the aid blockade imposed by Israel. Scenes of desperation like this one have played out across Gaza for months. A coalition of more than 100 air organizations are calling on Israel to end the blockade. Israel blames Hamas for the starvation.
With us now, Dr. Nick Maynard, a volunteer surgeon with medical aid for Palestinians. Just returned from Gaza and you've been there three times since October 7th, 2023. How would you describe the humanitarian situation there?
DR. NICK MAYNARD, VOLUNTEER SURGEON, MEDICAL AID FOR PALESTINIANS: It's worse than ever. I mean, each time I've been, the malnutrition has become increasingly obvious and now, it is in an absolutely dire state. There are people dying of malnutrition, babies, children, adults. There is really mass starvation affecting everyone I see, in the hospitals, outside, and it is in a terrible, terrible state at the moment.
[20:50:00]
BERMAN: Now, Israel denies it is creating a famine and blames Hamas for engineering, what they call, a shortage of food. What have you seen there?
MAYNARD: What I've seen in the -- I mean I've been in the Nasser Hospital the whole time over the last four weeks. So, I've seen the effects of the malnutrition, of the forced starvation. I've seen the hospital where no food, no nutritional support for the patients has been coming in at all. I have witnessed formula feed, for example, being confiscated at the border by the Israeli border guards, not letting any specific formula feed for newborn infants to come in. We know that for the whole of the last 21 months, there's been inadequate aid and food coming in.
BERMAN: Yeah. And again, these distribution sites in recent months, there've been deadly Israeli military shootings at or around some of these sites in Gaza. There have also been instances of people being crushed to death. What do you know about what's happened at these locations?
MAYNARD: So, I've seen many patients who have been shot at these food distribution points. Most days, over the last four weeks, I have operated on patients who've been shot at these sites. They are almost exclusively young teenage males, sometime as young as 11 or 12, rarely older than 14 or 15, who are brought in having been shot. And I'm hearing the same narrative from them, from their families, and indeed from healthcare -- Gazan healthcare colleagues, some of whom I've known for years, who have been to these food distribution points in order to get food for their own starving families.
And they all describe a similar scenario where there is food, enough food perhaps for 300 people laid out in a compound which is closed. And then, only when several thousand Gazans have gathered outside, do they open a small gate to allow them in. And it's designed to create chaos and rioting. And then, many of them are being shot by Israeli soldiers and by hovering quadcopters, the drone, the remote control drones. And this is a story I've heard from so many different individuals and their families.
BERMAN: Dr. Nick Maynard, thank you for sharing your story with us tonight.
MAYNARD: Thank you very much indeed.
BERMAN: And I just want to note that Israel has repeatedly denied the troops fired upon civilians at aid distribution sites. We'll be right back.
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[20:57:35]
BERMAN: Coke is changing its American recipe, kind of. President Trump announced in a social media post last week that real cane sugar will now be used. Coca-Cola Company announced late yesterday that they would be creating a separate Coke product that includes cane sugar and would still use high fructose corn syrup in regular Coke.
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BERMAN: Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert Kennedy Jr., has advocated against using high fructose corn syrup. CNN's Harry Enten, who is really an expert on all these things, is with us now. Harry, thank you for coming on and preaching to us about this.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Of course.
BERMAN: How popular is regular sugar cane?
ENTEN: I was interesting. There's been one study that was done that compared, essentially asking folks, what do you prefer the taste of, regular sugar or high fructose corn syrup? And it turns out that the American people say that they prefer regular sugar. Look at this, by a two to one margin, say Coke with sugar tastes better. Now, I must tell you that I think that this is a crock of baloney because that includes folks who, A, have never even had Coke with sugar before. But it's also the fact that it was not a blind taste test, which I think is so important.
Now, as someone who has in fact had many of Cokes with sugar because Kosher for Passover Coke cannot have corn syrup in it. I also have developed a little bit of an interest in this topic. So I decided, you know what? Screw these studies. Let's actually conduct our own taste test, which I did with our "AC 360" staff earlier today. And we can show the results of that. But I also want you to partake in your own taste test right here. We have four different cokes for you.
We have a coke that comes in a plastic bottle. We have a coke that comes in a glass bottle. We have a Coke that comes in a can. And then we have Mexican Coke with sugar as well. And at the end of your test, Mr. Berman, you'll tell me how it is. But I will tell you that the folks on the "AC 360" team, which one did they prefer? They in fact preferred not Coke in -- with sugar. They actually preferred a glass with corn syrup four to three over -- with sugar, canned corn syrup three, and a plastic corn syrup one. What did you feel?
BERMAN: I think I may have liked C the best. ENTEN: You like C the best. And according to what I have here, C is in fact with a can. It is a can. It is not in fact the one that was the Mexican Coke, which was in fact A. So you like the "AC 360" staff did not prefer Mexican coke. That is coke with sugar, which proves my point that this whole --
