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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Justice Department Releases Remaining Epstein Files; Interview with Rep. James Walkinshaw (D-VA); Massive Crowds Turn Out at Anti-ICE Protests; DOJ Opens Civil Rights Investigation Into Pretti Killing; Don Lemon Promises To Fight Federal Charges Following His Arrest After MN Church Protest; Journalist Arrested Over Church Protest Speaks Out; Justice Department Releases Remaining Epstein Files; Beloved Actress Catherine O'Hara Dies At 71. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 30, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JENNIFER BREHENY WALLACE, AUTHOR, "MATTERING": ... our resilience breaks down. Our resilience is rooted in those relationships, and it means showing up for them. It means committing to our friends, committing to, you know, the people in our lives that we will be there, we will show up, we will not cancel.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, well, I hope everyone will get the book. It is very meaningful and so much, you know, it's profound, so much of how you take a word like that and break it apart.

Jenny Wallace, thanks so much.

And thanks so much to all of you for being with us. AC360, starts now.

[20:00:33]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the government is massive and they say final batch of Epstein files are out. What we know so far about what and who is in them, including the President and Elon Musk, who once said he refused offers to go to Epstein Island, now, it's not so clear.

Also tonight, an attack on the First Amendment by the administration. The arrest at the Attorney General's direction of independent journalists, including Don Lemon, who were reporting on anti-ICE protesters inside a St. Paul Church. We'll be joined by one of the reporters now facing charges.

And later, Bruce Springsteen lends his voice in what's now a number one hit as tens of thousands brave freezing temperatures to protest in Minneapolis.

Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight, keeping them honest, with the Justice Department's final Epstein files release. The revelations we've uncovered so far and the big names mentioned, including Elon Musk, former President Clinton and President Trump. Now, it's long overdue, 42 days past the deadline that Congress gave for full disclosure. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We complied with the statute, we complied with the act, and there is no -- we did not protect President Trump, we didn't protect or not protect anybody. I mean, I think that that we -- that there's a hunger or a thirst for information that I do not think will be satisfied by the review of these documents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That's in no small part due to the extensive redactions. As with prior batches, the names of many of Epstein's and Ghislaine Maxwells victims are blacked out, more than 2,700, according to the DOJ. But some victim's names were not redacted. The names of any alleged accusers are also redacted, and the Deputy Attorney General says they may never be revealed unless they are charged with crimes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLANCHE: If we learn about information and evidence that that allows us to prosecute them, you better believe we will. But I don't think that the public or you all are going to uncover men within the Epstein files that abused women, unfortunately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, that said, there are still some three million documents now up in the Justice Department website protected for the first time by an age verification page due to the content involved, which is certainly not the norm for government websites.

Among the documents, a list the FBI compiled last August of sexual assault allegations related to the President. Now, we should underscore the allegations appear to be unverified. The President has long denied any Epstein related wrongdoing.

Asked for comment, The White House referred a reporter to a Justice Department press release which says in part, "... some of the documents contain untrue and sensationalist claims against President Trump that were submitted to the FBI right before the 2020 election. And to be clear, the claims are unfounded and false, and if they have a shred of credibility, they certainly would have been weaponized against President Trump already."

Now, the document was briefly taken down today, then reposted without any apparent changes. Also in the files, this FBI memo from mid-2021, a few months after Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted on federal sex trafficking charges. In it, a victim says Maxwell brought her to a party in New York when she was about 22. Quoting now, "Maxwell presented redacted to Trump and they had a conversation for approximately 20 minutes".

The memo says that Trump invited the woman to Mar-a-Lago, where she was, "... given a tour by Trump with Epstein and Maxwell present." "Nothing happened between redacted and Trump, but the things that

Maxwell said, it was made clear that redacted was available. Maxwell said things like, oh, I think he likes you. Aren't you lucky?"

The White House, when asked about this document again, referred us to the DOJ statement we read a moment ago. And the President, as you know, has had plenty to say as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have nothing to do with Epstein. The Democrats do.

I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein.

You just keep going on the Epstein files. And what the Epstein is, is a Democrat hoax.

REPORTER: If there's nothing incriminating in the files, why not --

TRUMP: Quiet, quiet, piggy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the files also show that Epstein repeatedly took the fifth during a 2016 deposition when asked more than a dozen questions about former President Clinton. Among them several about whether Mr. Clinton visited Epstein's private island and flew in his private plane. The former President has denied ever having visited the island, so has Elon Musk, yet the files contain at least two e-mails discussing just that.

In one, from the 24th of November, 2012. Epstein writes: "How many people will you be for the heli to island?" Musk responded the next day that it would probably just be him and his then wife, adding, "What day/night will be the wildest party on your island?"

A year later, Musk wrote Epstein saying, "We'll be in the BVI Saint Barts area over the holidays," BVI is British Virgin Islands. "Is there a good time to visit?" To which, Epstein replied, "Always space for you."

It's unclear if that or the other visit took place. Representatives for Musk did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the new e-mails and Musk in 2019 told "Vanity Fair," "He tried repeatedly to get me to visit his island, I declined."

Musk, we all recall, famously posted this during his beef with the President this year, "Time to drop the really big bomb. Trump is in the Epstein files."

Minutes later, he followed up with, "Mark this post for the future. The truth will come out."

[20:05:51] Now, keeping them honest, that's kind of hard to do. He seems to have

taken the post down, along with the first one. Also in the files, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, who famously said he'd broken ties with Epstein in 2005, vowing to, "... never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again."

The files, though, reveal Lutnick or his wife, Alison, were in touch with touch with Epstein as recently as 2012. In an e-mail from Alison Lutnick in November of that year, she writes, "We are looking forward to visiting you," adding, "We are traveling on a yacht called Excellence and I am CC'ing the captain."

A spokesperson for the Commerce Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

So, a lot to talk about tonight, starting us off, CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid. She's been going through the documents all day. So, what stands out to you from the documents you've reviewed so far?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, the document that really stands out at this point is this list of accusations against President Trump, because the FBI compiled this list last summer, and this is a lot of the kind of information that investigators gather when they're looking at whether charges should potentially be pursued.

For example, they're looking at unverified tips. Some include secondhand information that came through a tip line. It appears the FBI followed up on some tips. At least one was found to be unverified, but this is the kind of information they collect but do not usually make public if there are no charges brought in a case.

Now, of course, President Trump has always denied any wrongdoing connected to Epstein, but there are a lot of questions that are raised here. First of all, why did the FBI make this list of accusations specifically relevant to President Trump? Though President Bill Clinton was also mentioned in there.

The document was also taken down at least twice today, last time I checked, Anderson, it was back up. But this list of allegations will likely prompt more questions for the Justice Department and The White House, even though this release is, of course, part of an effort to try to tamp all this down.

COOPER: I know you were at the press conference with Deputy Attorney General Blanche earlier. Is it clear why he made this announcement rather than Attorney General Pam Bondi?

REID: Yes, look, I mean, we know the Attorney General, she has faced a lot of criticism, even from administration officials for her handling of the Epstein files. So, it is not terribly surprising that the number two official at the Justice Department, Todd Blanche, came out and did this announcement. He oversees the operations of the Justice Department and this review. Now, it's clear the administration trusts him and not her to make this

sensitive announcement. I will also note, a little unusual for a Justice Department press conference, as you know, oftentimes officials just make an announcement, walk off, maybe take one or two questions. He took questions from almost every single reporter in the room on a variety of matters.

But it's clear this was part of an effort to emphasize or endorse the idea that they have been fully transparent. In this case, of course, something that not everyone, including some victims of Jeffrey Epstein, agree with.

COOPER: Yes, Paula Reid, thanks very much.

Joining me now, former federal prosecutor, Jeff Toobin and Randee Kogan, who is a therapist for several Epstein survivors. Randee, I know you've been in touch with some of the survivors today. What's their reaction been to this document release?

RANDEE KOGAN, THERAPIST FOR EPSTEIN SURVIVORS: It's such a range of emotions. There is anxiety, there is fear, there's still feelings of betrayal by the government. They still feel that the government is protecting the people who should be held accountable, the rich, powerful men who should be held accountable and they feel like they're the only ones who have been experiencing consequences throughout this entire process.

COOPER: Jeff, Ro Khanna, who is the Democrat who pushed forward this along with a Republican colleague, saying in part, "We're demanding the names of Epstein's co-conspirators and the men and the pedophiles who abused, women and girls." Actually, that was Robert Garcia, who said that.

Initially, Ro Khanna had said that the Department of Justice had identified like six million pages. I think some three point something million have actually been released.

[20:10:03]

JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I don't know exactly how they made these distinctions, but it seems fair and appropriate to focus on the 3.5 million pages that were released, as opposed to those that weren't. I mean, we are always going to want more information. That's what journalists do, that's what investigators do. But there is a tremendous amount of information in the stuff that was released today. And frankly, we're all just starting to scratch the surface.

And the thing that just jumped out to me is that there are a lot of very serious allegations against a lot of people. Some of them will surely be without merit -- and you know, and wrong, but, you know, you have to ask the question, as the survivors are asking is why has only Jeffrey Epstein been the only person identified as abusing women, when it certainly suggests that there were more people doing it?

COOPER: Does the Department of Justice explanation, Todd Blanche for the redactions of people's names make sense to you? TOOBIN: Some of it does, but it seems like they, you know, they were

both overinclusive and underinclusive. You know, there's too much censorship redactions of the alleged wrongdoers, the men and not enough redactions of the survivors. You know, to a certain extent that's inevitable when you're dealing with this volume.

COOPER: Some of the names were, I guess, accidentally not there.

TOOBIN: Right, and, you know, I think we have to have a certain degree of sympathy for going through three million documents, you're going to make some mistakes. But, you know, I think the thing that really jumps out at me and I think, you know, is the continuing question of why haven't there been more people prosecuted for the abuse of these women?

COOPER: And, Randee, I mean, some survivors have told CNN that they found examples of victim's names appearing unredacted, as we've talked about. The attorney general said, look, or the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche said, look, mistakes are inevitable. I'm wondering what your reaction is to that.

KOGAN: You know, if they're focusing on justice for the survivors and they want to protect the survivors, then they'll take the time to go through with a fine-tooth comb and make sure that all the names are redacted. That's how you protect the survivors. Theres no if, ands, or buts when it comes to protecting the survivors.

COOPER: Jeff, I mean, where does this case go from here?

TOOBIN: Well, there haven't been any prosecutions for several years, and the odds are they're not going to be any more prosecutions. But a lot of people are going to be looking at these documents and at least suggesting, I bet, that there are cases still to be made out there. The question then becomes, will there be enough political pressure for the Trump administration to reopen a criminal investigation?

At the moment, it's all done, but depending on what we see, there's at least the possibility that there might be more.

COOPER: Randee, 19 of the survivors released a statement today saying I want to read part of it. It said, "The Justice Department cannot claim it has finished releasing files until every legally required document, and every abuser and enabler is fully exposed." Do you have any confidence in that actually happening?

KOGAN: You know, we've been hoping for justice now for 18 years, and it's really hard to trust right now. It's really hard to understand who the survivors should trust right now when it comes to the release of these documents, because they have been feeling betrayed throughout this entire process.

COOPER: Randee Kogan, I appreciate your time. Jeff Toobin, as well, thank you.

Coming up next, will today's disclosures be enough for lawmakers? I'll talk to a member of the House Oversight Committee. And later, remembering Catherine O'Hara and the unforgettable

characters only she could have played with or without a script.

("HOME ALONE" VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

KATE MCCALLISTER, FICTIONAL CHARACTER PLAYED BY CATHERINE O'HARA: Kevin!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:20]

COOPER: We are talking tonight about what the Justice Department says is its last word on the Epstein files. The final batch, more than three million pages worth, which were continuing to read through.

They are, no surprise, extensively redacted, though Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche today said that lawmakers will have access by request to unredacted materials.

Joining us now is Virginia Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw, who sits on the House Oversight Committee.

So, Congressman, the ranking Democrat on the Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia, released this blistering statement after the files were released saying, "... we are demanding the names of Epstein's coconspirators and the men and pedophiles who abused women and girls."

Do you accept the governments explanation for the redactions they've made?

REP. JAMES WALKINSHAW (D-VA): No, I don't.

I mean, look, the Trump administration and the Department of Justice has slow rolled this release at every turn. Today, they released three million of the six million documents we know they have. We know they have six million because they said it. They released 50 percent of the documents and the 50 percent we have today are heavily, heavily redacted. So, they continue to cover up the full truth that's in the files.

So, we're going to continue to push the Oversight Committee's investigation will continue throughout this Congress and into the next Congress, I suspect. We're not going to stop until we get the transparency that the survivors are demanding.

COOPER: I mean, some of the claims in some of these files are, I mean, pretty bizarre and don't sound very credible. In your view, should the general public and what should the general public take away from these files? How are people supposed to know what's credible and what isn't?

WALKINSHAW: Yes, I think that's absolutely fair. And, you know, there are a number of uncorroborated or perhaps unverified allegations against President Trump there. And I think what I would say is all of that deserves additional scrutiny. Some of them have been revealed publicly in the past and perhaps have limited credibility, but all of them should be explored.

You know, the Oversight Committee, in the coming weeks, we're going to be deposing Jeffrey Epstein's accountant, his attorneys, the attorneys for his estate. So, we are going to continue to ask questions. And I think this release, although limited, not what the law requires, this release will provide information to guide our questioning as we move forward.

[20:20:41]

COOPER: Among the materials that the Deputy Attorney General Blanche said were withheld from this release were files that would jeopardize an active federal investigation. Is it clear to you what investigative avenues remain at this point, or if there are any active federal investigations ongoing into this?

WALKINSHAW: I have no insight into the active investigations that the Department of Justice might be engaged in. Obviously, we know President Trump has done what he has done repeatedly and directed the Department of Justice to investigate his political opponents or Democrats.

With respect to Epstein, I hope that's not the path they're doing. If there are real, legitimate investigations based on what they've learned in the files, those should proceed without any interference or involvement from President Trump.

COOPER: And as we mentioned, the Deputy Attorney General Blanche said that unredacted files would be made available to lawmakers who coordinate with the Department of Justice. Is there a plan to do that? I mean, obviously, it's a lot of files. Is that even possible?

WALKINSHAW: I know that Congressmen Khanna and Massie have written a letter asking to review those unredacted files. I think the Democrats on the Oversight Committee and hopefully Republicans as well, will be talking about how we can coordinate to review those unredacted files. I certainly want to understand what's been redacted and more importantly, why.

COOPER: Congressman James Walkinshaw, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

WALKINSHAW: Thanks for having me.

COOPER: Up next, new anti-ICE protests in Minneapolis and around the country and we will check in with Sara Sidner on the ground in Minnesota.

Also, independent journalist, Don Lemon and Georgia Fort arrested, charged in connection with this protest nearly two weeks ago at St. Paul Church, which they say they were just covering. Their supporters call it an attack on the First Amendment by the administration. I'll speak with Fort ahead, who posted this when she found a lot of federal agents at her door about to be arrested.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGIA FORT, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST BASED IN MINNESOTA: Agents are at my door right now. They're saying that they were able to go before a grand jury sometime, I guess in the last 24 hours, and that they have a warrant for my arrest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:27:35]

COOPER: We are looking at there, several large anti-ICE demonstrations around the country right now. We saw a large one in Los Angeles outside a federal complex where moments ago, a group of protesters confronted police officers and DHS security agents. They reportedly threw bottles and at least one bag of trash at the officers, who responded with pepper balls and chemical irritants. An earlier protest elsewhere in the city was peaceful.

Meantime, in Minneapolis, on a day of massive protests, Bruce Springsteen showed up and lent his voice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, SINGER-SONGWRITER AND GUITARIST singing "And there were bloody footprints where mercy should have stood, two dead left to die on snow filled streets, Alex Pretti and Renee Good.")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Springsteen singing his new protest song about the federal operation in Minneapolis at a benefit concert there on this day, where there were massive protests in Minneapolis. The song, as you heard, named Alex Pretti and Renee Good, both obviously killed by federal agents this month.

Now, around the country, massive protests of against ICE took to the streets today, braving frigid temperatures in Minneapolis to call for an end to the immigration crackdown. Organizers call for a coordinated national shutdown, encouraging people to avoid shopping or walk out of schools and jobs and protests.

Earlier today, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche announced that the Justice Department has opened a Civil Rights investigation into the Pretti shooting but was quick to tamp down its significance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLANCHE: I don't want the takeaway to be that there's some massive Civil Rights investigation that's happening. This is a what I would describe as a standard investigation by the FBI when there are circumstances like what we saw last Saturday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Calls for an independent investigation into the shooting have grown after video evidence from the scene contradicted earlier claims by Trump administration officials that Pretti, "... wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement," and indicated that he was brandishing a weapon which led to his being killed.

Late last night, the President weighed in on newly surfaced video. This video that shows Pretti enraged in or excuse me, engaged in a physical encounter with federal officers 11 days before he was shot and killed. The President writes, "Agitator and perhaps insurrectionist, Alex Pretti's stock has gone way down with the just released video of him screaming and spitting in the face of a very calm and under control ICE officer, and then crazily kicking in a new and very expensive government vehicle so hard and violent, in fact, that the taillight broke off in pieces. It was quite a display of abuse and anger for all to see, crazed and out of control. The ICE officer was calm and cool."

The President continues, "Not an easy thing to be under those circumstances. Make America great again".

Pretti's stock has gone down. The President of United States appearing to leave the door open to the idea that Pretti's death at the hands of federal law enforcement may have, perhaps somehow been justified.

CNN Anchor and Senior National Correspondent Sara Sidner joins me now from Minneapolis. First of all, Sara, I should just point out on that video that has surfaced of Alex Pretti clearly annoyed and kicking out that light. The officers then get out of the vehicle and basically manhandle him down to the ground, but they don't arrest him.

If they could have arrested him, I mean, the president seeming to indicate that what he did was so beyond the pale, they chose not to do anything. They just rushed out of the vehicle, wrestled him to the ground and then got back into their vehicles.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know what else they didn't do, Anderson? They didn't shoot him to death. In the other video that you see of him 11 days later, he's doing none of that. All you see is him holding a cell phone and trying to help a woman who they have shoved to the ground.

So two stark videos there that you are well aware of that have riled people here because when they hear something like that from the president, that seems like he's trying to say it was justified. His killing may be justified. That is just send people into a frenzy and into the streets.

What has happened with ICE here, we've seen looks like tens of thousands of people again for a second Friday in a row, taking to the streets in temperatures that are unbearable, but they took to the streets anyway. Their message is very, very, very clear.

They are sending not just the message to the president, but sending it to their representatives as well, saying, you guys have to do something about this. We want ICE out of our community and we want it to happen now.

And you were able to play that video from Bruce Springsteen, who was here at one of the most famous music venues in the city where Prince of the Revolution used to perform for many years. He showed up to everyone's surprise, although there were some whispers before and sang a song that he's just written about Minneapolis called the "Streets of Minneapolis."

It has been quite a day here for those who have kind of suffered through all this. The community has suffered through all this. They were very, very heartened to see Bruce Springsteen show up for them.

COOPER: As we said, the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, announced there'd be a civil rights investigation to the shooting of Alex Pretti. But he did tamp down. He said this is not some sort of this is just kind of standard.

Have you heard -- I mean, I didn't hear any confidence from folks on the ground there about anything from the federal government on this. Have you heard today with the tens of thousands of people came out, any confidence that there would be a comprehensive and fair investigation by the federal government?

SIDNER: Here's what we heard. They don't believe a damn thing this administration says. Point blank, period. What they believe is that there is going to be a cover up because they feel that is what has happened already with Renee Good, where you have seen six prosecutors, six high level federal prosecutors resigned from their jobs because the government was telling them, the DOJ telling them that they needed to shift who they were looking into, not the officer who shot and killed her, but her and her wife and their connection to protest groups.

So there is zero trust here. There couldn't be less trust here from those in the city who have been out in the streets day after day protesting ICE. I don't think you could even rebuild it if you wanted to at this point in time, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. Sara Sidner, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

Former CNN Anchor turned Independent Journalist Don Lemon appeared in federal court this afternoon to face charges related to a live streaming report he did at a protest during a church service in St. Paul, Minnesota. Here's what he told reporters afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: Last night, the DOJ sent a team of federal agents to arrest me in the middle of the night for something that I've been doing for the last 30 years, and that is covering the news. The First Amendment of the Constitution protects that work for me and for countless of other journalists who do what I do. I stand with all of them and I will not be silenced. I look forward to my day in court. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Along with Don Lemon, three other people were arrested, including Minnesota independent journalist Georgia Fort. She was -- she went before Judge Day. She joins us tonight. We'll have that interview in a moment.

[20:35:05]

Attorney General Pam Bondi says the arrests are connected to a, quote, "coordinated attack" on city's church nearly two weeks ago. But Lemon and Fort say they were doing their jobs as journalists and were not protesters. All four arrested are charged with one count of conspiracy against right of religious freedom at place of worship and one count of injure, intimidate, and interfere with exercise of right of religious freedom at place of worship.

In announcing their arrests on social media this morning, Bondi used the words, quote, "At my direction," which is not what you typically see from an attorney general. The White House has posted this photo with the words, "When life gives you lemons," along with a chain emoji.

President Trump has been critical, obviously, of Don Lemon for years. Lemon himself has not been shy in calling out the president and his administration. A magistrate judge had initially refused to allow federal officials to arrest Lemon and take him into custody, but they took it to a grand jury in Minnesota and got a felony indictment.

The indictment unsealed this afternoon alleges that Don Lemon and the others charged, quote, "oppressed, threatened, and intimidated the church's congregants and pastors." Here's some of what Lemon said during that live stream. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I'm just here -- I'm not -- I'm just here photographing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you a --

LEMON: I'm not part of the group. I'm just here photographing. I'm a journalist. We don't know. That's what they're saying. So we're here just chronicling and reporting. We're not part of the activists, but we're here just reporting on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Don Lemon's attorney released a statement saying, in part, quote, "This unprecedented attack on the First Amendment and transparent attempt to distract attention from the many crises facing this administration will not stand. Don will fight these charges vigorously and thoroughly in court."

When agents showed up at Georgia Fort's door yesterday, she started recording. Here's some of her message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGIA FORT, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: You guys, I wanted to alert the public that agents are at my door right now. This is all stemming from the fact that I filmed a protest as a member of the media. We are supposed to have our constitutional right of the freedom to film, to be a member of the press.

I don't feel like I have my First Amendment right as a member of the press because now federal agents are at my door arresting me for filming the church protest a few weeks ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: It was a live stream she did on Facebook. Journalist Georgia Fort is out of jail and joins me tonight.

Georgia, first of all, how are you doing? And were you surprised that you were arrested? Obviously, previous attempts to arrest you had been blocked by federal courts.

FORT: Yes, you know, I'm hanging in there. It is quite frightening to have two dozen agents outside of your home. You know, my children were home with me when I was arrested. And so, yes, just it's been a long day. And yes, it was extremely shocking.

COOPER: You had two dozen agents show up at your door?

FORT: Yes.

COOPER: I want to read part of what the Justice Department alleged in the indictment and let you respond. They claim you and the other defendants, quote, "Entered the church in a coordinated takeover style attack and engage in acts of oppression, intimidation, threats, interference and physical obstruction."

As they said, and quote, "As a result of defendants conduct, the pastor and congregation were forced to terminate the church's worship service. Congregants fled the church building of fear of their -- for their safety. Other congregants took steps to implement an emergency plan and young children were left to wonder, as one child put it, if their parents were going to die."

What is your reaction to that?

FORT: Anderson, I am a journalist just like you. I went in my capacity as a journalist. I documented as a journalist. The footage is published. It speaks for itself.

COOPER: You captured video of your own arrest. Federal agents outside your home. Can you just talk about that experience?

FORT: As journalists, we never want to be the story. But, unfortunately, I did find myself in a predicament where I felt that I needed to be able to tell my own story, that I needed the world to see that journalism is on trial, that we are at a state in our nation where if you are documenting what's happening, you may be criminalized for it. You may be arrested.

And so I think what is happening in Minnesota overall should be quite alarming to the entire nation. I think what happened to me today as an independent journalist, what happened to Don Lemon being arrested for reporting what's happening, I think people should be alarmed.

[20:40:15]

And I think mainstream media should also be really concerned because if they can criminalize a journalist here in Minnesota, whether you're independent or not, I think that we've seen a track record where this is just going to continue to escalate.

COOPER: How do you face something like this? I mean, obviously, the federal government has unlimited resources. What is your next move, both legally and just in terms of the work you do?

FORT: You know, I am a mother of three daughters. Right now, my focus is on making sure that they can recover from the trauma of what they experienced today and making sure that I can recover. From there, I have an incredible legal team, very reputable among media leaders across the country. And so I am counting on them to do what they do best.

COOPER: You have no doubt that this is meant to intimidate not just yourself and Don Lemon and the others who were charged, but journalists everywhere.

FORT: I would ask you, how does it feel to you to see a journalist arrested for simply reporting the news? I would challenge every journalist in America to ask themselves how it felt to them today to see their colleagues be arrested for reporting the news.

And if any of them say that it made them fearful, it made them concerned, it made them second guess going out tomorrow and covering what's happening in their communities, then, yes, I would say that that was probably the intent. It does send a chilling message to our entire industry.

I've been in journalism for several years. I've been in media almost two decades, OK? 14 regional Emmy nominations across two different regions. I've won three regional Emmys here in the Midwest, producing my own television show as an independent journalist.

And so, you know, being a journalist who's from here, who's from Minnesota, I've been on the ground. This is my community. I'm not flying in and flying out. I'm here. And I'm doing the best that I can to tell the stories of what's really happening.

And as an American-born citizen, it's always been my understanding that I have that protection under the Constitution, under the First Amendment, that we have a freedom of press. But today, the way that I was treated for simply doing my job, the way that I have been criminalized and dehumanized, it makes me really, really wonder if our Constitution is something of the past and if it's just a thing made up of empty promises at this point, honestly. COOPER: Are you intimidated? If that's the objective, which it certainly seems to be.

FORT: I will continue to tell the stories of my community.

COOPER: Georgia Fort, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

FORT: Thank you.

COOPER: Coming up next, we'll talk to Kara Swisher with more on this, as well as her take on the Epstein files, including several items on Elon Musk, who she's covered for years.

Also, we remember the life and work of Catherine O'Hara, who brought us so many laughs over the decades.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:48:10]

COOPER: More on former CNN Anchor, now Independent Journalist Don Lemon, and the federal charges that he, Journalist Georgia Fort, who we just talked to, and two others are facing after covering a protest at a St. Paul church.

Joining me now, CNN contributor, author, and podcast host, Kara Swisher. Kara, what do you make of these arrests? I mean, what do you -- what do they signal to you?

KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it signals that they're coming down to journalists. They've talked about this before, and Trump has been a real foe of journalists, obviously through lawsuits and other means, and now he's stepping it up a little bit.

You know, I think this is going to be relentless, and he's going to continue to do things like this, and he's trying to pick off independent journalists first, although he's certainly aimed fire at, you know, every single institution of journalism.

And so it's really problematic, and Don has been, since he left CNN, has been trying to carve out this independent journalism career, which I think is very laudable and has gotten lots of followers. And he -- to me, everything he said that you just played there, he was covering it.

You know, there's all kinds of arguments they'll make that he shouldn't have been in there, he was part of the activists, but he seemed to very much stress that he was covering it. He also talked to the pastor, et cetera. So they're trying to cook up something in order to try to scare him, and I think the previous journalist you had on said the exact same thing. She was there as a journalist.

COOPER: It's so interesting because, I mean, at first, obviously this administration has been very effective at getting money from, you know, parent corporations of a lot of journalism organizations --

SWISHER: ABC.

COOPER: Yes.

SWISHER: CBS, yes.

COOPER: And, you know, obviously with all the sorts of mergers and the sales, they are trying to control who will buy media companies.

SWISHER: That's correct. You know, whether Larry Ellison is trying to get a hold of CNN, for example, which is through the -- through Paramount, Larry Ellison and David Ellison, or Jeff Bezos owning the Washington Post, et cetera, et cetera.

[20:50:00]

But in this case, these are most -- these are independent journalists, and Don has become that, and he's obviously walking in. He -- this is his thing as he now goes around with a microphone and talks to people, and this is very typical of him, and you could see him doing it.

And so the question is, you know, he's always been an irritant to the Trump administration. You know that. I know that.

COOPER: Yes.

SWISHER: And so they found a way to do it through this face law, which is supposed to protect clinics and churches and things like that. It's another case for the people who went in there. Perhaps they have cases against them, but there's -- I mean, two dozen people to arrest this one woman journalist? This is craziness. Or to go get Don in Los Angeles, the other --

COOPER: Yes, in the middle of the night.

SWISHER: -- part is that, you know --

COOPER: I mean, this night.

SWISHER: In the middle of the night, of course they did. They're trying to create fear. And so I think one of the problems is, is where is there -- where are their resources? They're not having their resources on the abuses of these -- of ICE agents.

No, they're going after people who are covering what's happening and what irritates them on any given day. And, you know, it's -- also the First Amendment. Like, I don't think we should even have to go anywhere after that.

COOPER: I also want to ask you just about the huge, and according to the DOJ, final batch of Epstein files released today.

SWISHER: Yes. That's --

COOPER: Did they answer any questions for you?

SWISHER: You know, I was aware of how many tech people were friends with him or socialized with him or went to that island. I'd heard many years ago from many of the wives of these -- some of these people that they were nervous about going there. I'm not going to say the names, but, you know, he had a wide range of contacts.

He was very interested in the tech industry and always tried to get people to go. He tried to get me to go to dinner at his New York house, which I declined to do. But, you know, he -- I think I'm -- what I was -- I wasn't surprised that you can see Elon Musk had a very social relationship with him.

I don't know anything else about it. Obviously, I'm just reading the emails. But, you know, had said he refused him and he had never been interested in him and thought the worst of him. And, in fact, had a very cordial relationship. So he was not telling the truth about that, according to these emails, obviously.

But that was the kind of thing these people all did. Get on planes, come on my helicopter, come to my party, my wildest party. And so, you know, this is the kind of life they lead. Whether they did anything or not, we have no idea.

And I think it's just that there are these social relationships that Epstein took advantage of almost constantly. A lot with big tech leaders like --

COOPER: What's also interesting, Steve Bannon --

SWISHER: -- (INAUDIBLE) along with Bill Gates.

COOPER: -- Steve Bannon's relationship with him, which, you know, is brought up in these files as well.

SWISHER: Yes, absolutely. Steve Bannon is in there. They're all -- you know, the problem we have here is that all of them were, right? And they all sort of were pointing fingers at each other. But they all had these cordial relationships with him.

And I can tell you, he was very much involved with all these very wealthy people's lives. You know, he was very -- not just the ones that have come out, but everybody. Like, and that's the thing, you see. And it was very cordial and very much. Come to my island. Oh, should I come? Should I come for a tour at SpaceX, et cetera?

COOPER: Yes.

SWISHER: Including Elon's brother, Kimbal, you know? And, you know, and again, I don't know if anything happened. I have no idea. But it's certainly social. They're certainly social --

COOPER: Yes.

SWISHER: -- and friendly, so, anything (ph).

COOPER: Kara Swisher, good to have you on. Thank you.

SWISHER: Thank you, Anderson. COOPER: Up next, we remember Catherine O'Hara, who was only ever up the creek once on screen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, well, can you show me one thing?

CATHERINE O'HARA, ACTRESS: You just -- that's what you do. You just fold it in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I don't know how to fold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:39]

COOPER: We learned today actress Catherine O'Hara died this morning in Los Angeles. No cause was given. She had many fans, myself included, and she will be missed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): She was, like so many greats, impossible to typecast. For millions of movie fans every Christmas, Catherine O'Hara was, and always will be, the frazzled mom who left her son home alone.

O'HARA: Kevin!

COOPER (voice-over): In what turned out to be the biggest holiday blockbuster of all time.

O'HARA: I've been from Chicago to Paris to Dallas to -- where the hell am I?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scranton.

O'HARA: I am trying to get home to my eight-year-old son.

COOPER (voice-over): In "Beetlejuice," she was at her wits end.

O'HARA: If you don't let me gut out this house and make it my own, I will go insane and I will take you with me.

COOPER (voice-over): Alongside frequent co-star Eugene Levy, she was a singing dog breeder in "Best in Show."

EUGENE LEVY, ACTOR: God loves a terrier.

COOPER (voice-over): One half of a faded folk duo in "A Mighty Wind."

O'HARA: Mitch was so strong and so smart and knew what he wanted and I just focused on Mitch and, you know, I went along for the ride.

My dear -- COOPER (voice-over): And an eccentric down on her luck matriarch in

the wildly popular "Schitt's Creek."

O'HARA: Do you remember Valentina? Our chambermaid in Little Martinique. We all thought she had just a cold until it was too late. I'll never shake the mental image of her frothing and flailing in that water taxi.

I will forever be grateful to Eugene and Daniel Levy for the opportunity -- for restoring upon me the opportunity to play a woman of a certain age, my age, who gets to be -- who gets to fully be her ridiculous self.

COOPER (voice-over): In her more than 50-year career, the Emmy-winning Toronto native did it all. Sketch comedy, big-budget features, indie cult favorites and streaming TV. Most recently, O'Hara starred opposite Seth Rogen in Apple's "The Studio" as a Hollywood executive who saw the handwriting on the wall.

O'HARA: They're influencers. Most of them don't even go inside. They just make their red carpet TikToks and leave.

COOPER (voice-over): Rogen called O'Hara the funniest person I'd ever had the pleasure of watching onscreen. Canada has lost a legend, said Prime Minister Mark Carney. And Michael McKean, who, with his wife Annette O'Toole, wrote the Oscar-nominated song "A Kiss at the End of the Rainbow" for O'Hara and Levy in "A Mighty Wind," said simply, "Only one Catherine O'Hara and now none."

Catherine O'Hara was 71 years old.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: What an incredible life and legacy.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. Have a good weekend.