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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
FBI: Male Suspect in Guthrie Case, 5'9 to 5'10 and Average Build; FBI Increases Reward in Guthrie Case to $100,000.00; Investigators Seek Footage From 2-Mile Radius Going Back to Jan. 1. How One Big Break Can Crack A Case; FBI: Male Suspect In Guthrie Case, 5'9 To 5'10 & Average Build; Border Czar: Minnesota Enforcement Surge Is Ending; Congress Unable To Reach Deal On DHS Funding Day Before Deadline; Trump Says He Has Not Disciplined Staffer Responsible For Sharing Racist Video Depicting Obamas As Apes; January 6th Rioter Convicted OF Child Sexual Abuse; A Mother Shares Her Grief. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 12, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): ... on bad precedent, on breaking the law, on violating people's -- the constitutional rights of Americans, he doubles down on it.
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ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: As for doubling down, Hegseth already is vowing to "immediately appeal the decision."
Thanks so much to all of you for joining us on this Thursday. AC360 with Anderson Cooper begins right now.
[20:00:27]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, investigators release new details about the man in this video outside Nancy Guthrie's door the night she was taken from her home.
Detail number one, the person is in fact a man, they're also focusing their search and doubling the reward for information.
Also tonight, might a single small clue crack the case? We'll show you when it has and some of the country's most notorious crimes. And later, after putting 3,000 armed masked federal agents on the ground in Minnesota killing two U.S. citizens at point blank range, the Trump administration says mission accomplished and is bringing its operation there to a close. We'll talk to Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with more new developments that investigators hope will bring them closer to finding Nancy Guthrie and catching whoever took her or jog someone's memory enough to recognize the man in this doorbell video from the night she was taken. Now, late today the FBI revealed what their analysis of the footage tells them about him. The man is approximately five foot nine or five foot ten they say, average build. They have also identified the back pack he's wearing a black 25-liter size Ozark Trail Hiker Pack. No identification yet, though of the gun in the holster at his waist.
However, just moments ago, we learned the significance of the white tent, which went up briefly outside Mrs. Guthrie's front door earlier today. A law enforcement source telling CNN it was to simulate nighttime conditions to help FBI specialists identify the backpack and the clothing the man in the video was wearing.
Now, the FBI adds that they've now received more than 13,000 tips since the search began on the first of this month. And in a sign, they want more they doubled the reward for information leading to her recovery to $100,000.00. Investigators are also asking Miss Guthrie's neighbors to check video from their own surveillance cameras from two specific days in January the 11th and the 31st.
They also want anyone living within a two-mile radius of the Guthrie home to check their own surveillance footage dating back to January 1st, long before miss Guthrie vanished, she was last seen on the 31st. CNN's Ed Lavandera joins us right now for the latest from outside Nancy Guthrie's home -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, you know it took investigators more than 10 days to resurrect the video on the front door camera that showed these images of this suspect showing up at the door, armed and with a backpack and a ski mask. And now, we've learned that investigators are casting a wider net again, trying to find even more video from this area.
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LAVANDERA (voice over): To reach Nancy Guthrie's home in this neighborhood. The suspect had to take a series of winding roads to get there.
LAVANDERA (on camera): It's not super easy the culprit would have to study or be familiar with the area to navigate the spider web of roads to get to her home especially in the pitch dark.
LAVANDERA (voice over): We've learned that investigators are expanding their call for video evidence in hopes of finding any suspicious vehicles or people that were in the area that night.
LAVANDERA (on camera): One of the alerts is asking residents who live along this specific road, which were not going to name for the safety of the residents who live here, to look for videos on January 11th between 9:00 P.M. and midnight. That's almost three weeks before Nancy Guthrie was abducted, and video on January 31st, between 9:30 and 11:00 A.M. that's about 16 hours before Guthrie was taken against her will. As authorities have said.
This roadway is one of the main entryways to reach Nancy Guthrie's home in this neighborhood. So, it's significant that investigators are asking neighbors and neighbors along this street whether or not they could have captured video of a suspicious vehicle in these new time frames. Pima County Sheriffs acknowledged the dates and times are accurate, but FBI authorities aren't commenting.
LAVANDERA (voice over): In the last day, we've witnessed FBI agents walking this road looking through the desert brush and spotting cameras on homes along the route. But this isn't the only area that investigators are trying to crowdsource video from.
Authorities have also put out a call for video from anyone who lives within a two-mile radius of Nancy Guthrie from January 1st to February 2nd. That is a massive amount of video to process hunting for a clue.
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COOPER: Ed, do you know where the closest nonresidential surveillance camera at a gas station or an intersection, or something like that is on the streets leading away from the home?
LAVANDERA: Well, yes, interesting question. If you look at this neighborhood and kind of, see it as like a rectangle, there are four major intersections all around it.
So, presumably those intersections as I've driven around them, I've seen cameras at all of them. The question is, did this particular suspect avoid all of that and try to figure out another way in or out? And we just don't know the answer to that point because we just don't know how much video from those areas have been collected by investigators and whether or not to be whether or not its proved -- proven to be fruitful in any way.
But there are areas around here, but it's not in the immediate area of where Nancy Guthrie lives.
[20:05:41]
COOPER: And Ed, just to be clear, that January 11th date, they're not saying exactly why they're naming that date.
LAVANDERA: No, we have not been able to figure that out. But in the alert that we saw that went out to neighbors, it was very specific. January 11th which is three weeks before Nancy Guthrie disappeared and this time frame from 9:00 P.M. to midnight. So, we don't know if it's something specific that triggered that for investigators or if you know what exactly that's based on, we just don't know.
COOPER: Yes, Ed Lavandera, appreciate it.
We're joined now by our panel of law enforcement experts, former NYPD detective, David Sarni; CNN law enforcement analyst, Jonathan Wackrow; CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst, John Miller; also retired FBI profiler, Mary Ellen O'Toole.
So, john I mean a lot some more details, five-foot nine to five foot ten obviously, that's significant for anybody who may know this person. JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, that's right. And you know, you see that we are really watching them widen the aperture, widen the search radius, widen the request for video coverage, you know even into a month, as opposed to not just these specific times, widen the search up and down the road, which we saw yesterday, all of that.
It's likely an indicator that after the first ransom note in the second communication, the failure to provide a proof of life that they have kind of moved on from that discussion and are applying much more resources to the investigation and all the science and technology and literally shoe leather they can.
COOPER: Jonathan, does it surprise you that there hasn't been any other kind of communication that we know about?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, it doesn't and the reason being is because, you know, we weren't sure we never got the authenticity that those messages were real to begin with, right, where there was a lot of speculation but there was no action off of that.
So, I see right now what law enforcement is doing is, you know, I think we've seen a big shift in the tone of this investigation from where we were last week. Last week we were talking when we started receiving those letters and really just broad terms of investigation, of information gathering.
Now, we are actually seeing action that's being driven off of precise evidence collection and, you know, that's why you see this net going out much broader because as they're gaining a little bit of ground in the investigation. Now, they want to start piecing all of these little bits together to actually start solidifying all of the activity along the investigative timeline.
COOPER: David, with these gloves, how long would it take to get DNA evidence?
DAVID SARNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, depending how the lab works, I think it will work as fast as they can possibly. Obviously, there's an urgent status for the glove, and that's why I think what they're doing is they have that one-and-a-half mile area where that glove is, and they're thinking, could it be so you have that again, circumference of video again, good old-fashioned police work, knocking on doors talking to people, getting the video, the tech-aspect to it.
All these things are coming into play and that's the way things work in an investigation. The detectives have to be out in the field, they have to talk to people, and you're getting the cooperation of the public because that's what you need because any of these investigations, police can do a lot, detectives can do a lot. But if the public doesn't engage the police, it makes it difficult to do these types of jobs.
COOPER: And that white tent recreating nighttime conditions, what can they glean from that? WACKROW: Well, I'll jump in here, actually, what they can do is they're trying to replicate the dark conditions. Right? When we saw that that video first come out. It was, you know monotone in color. We weren't able to see you know, it was that backpack black or was that backpack blue, right. So, trying to replicate those conditions and then bringing in that exact same camera with the exact same night vision --
COOPER: So, they would recreate that camera everything.
WACKROW: That's exactly what they were doing. So now you can bring in a different color jacket, a different color gloves, right, we're making an assumption that those gloves were black. Initially they could have been dark blue or purple. So, again, that's going to show up different colors on the night vision.
So again, this is the right thing to do. I would have really expected them to do it almost immediately after the video surfaced. But here we are right now again trying to develop and confirm different elements of this investigation.
COOPER: Mary Ellen, we mentioned investigators have asked neighbors to check camera footage from two days in January specific time frames, because the reports of a suspicious vehicle. Would it be typical for the perpetrator to do some kind of surveillance ahead of time?
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MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, RETIRED FBI PROFILER: Certainly, I would expect this offender to have done some surveillance, and I think we heard that this is an area that is a little challenging to move around, and it's got roads and it's got -- that go off into different directions and so, it does suggest certainly that this is somebody that had to be familiar with the area.
But I also think there's one more thing that they have to rule out. They have to rule out that the offender didn't go to the door of somebody else there in the neighborhood and the reason that I say that is because it's possible, probably not likely, but it's possible the neighborhood was first targeted, then the victim was targeted.
So, there could have been several people in that neighborhood that this offender thought that they could target, and then narrowed it down to Nancy.
Again, that may not be likely, but if somebody shows up at one of the neighbor's doorsteps that would give them a new theory that they would have to be able to explain.
COOPER: John, how likely do you think that could be?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's one of the bases you want to cover. I mean, you know, you would look at a lot of things. You would want to go through their records and go 10 miles, 20 miles and look at residential burglaries in that area, see if any of them included a home invasion. You know, the argument against that is a good burglar in that environment is going to work in the daytime. People are out. People are at work, houses are empty. A lot of people have guns in the home, in a place like Tucson, Arizona, especially out in the desert. At 2:00 in the morning, you can bet there are going to be people home that you may run into or alert.
But I mean, I think you try to eliminate those crimes by looking at those patterns. His backpack is full not empty. A good burglar is going to come with an empty backpack to fill it with valuables that they take in the burglary, a home invasion, you would see other home invasions.
After you eliminate those, you're very likely to end up in the same space, which is the person knew where he was going, knew what he was doing, and knew who he was there to take.
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break; we'll have more with our team. All we're learning in just the last few hours or so. Some questions about whether the pace investigation is as quick as it might otherwise be.
Later, how items as small as a glove or insignificant as a pizza crust have broken other cases including some of the most notorious when our breaking news coverage continues.
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[20:17:01]
COOPER: The late breaking news tonight, the FBI increasing its reward to $100,000.00 for information that will help find Nancy Guthrie and lead to the capture of anyone involved in her abduction. Forensic analysis of the doorbell video concludes the man is approximately five feet nine to five feet ten inches tall with an average build. He was wearing a black 25-liter Ozark Trail Hiker Backpack, and investigators are now asking Nancy Guthrie's neighbors within a two-mile radius to turn over any video from their security cameras that may include cars, traffic or people, and pointing out anything that may have felt out of the ordinary for that neighborhood.
Back again with David Sarni, Jonathan Wackrow and John Miller. That backpack, I mean, it's a specific kind of backpack. You would think somebody, if it's bought new by somebody in a family somebody might recognize it.
MILLER: Well, so that is the Ozark Trail Hiker backpack, but what's important is, it is the private brand from Walmart. It's a label that they created to sell in their stores, so steps you want to take and we will see more of this iteratively probably.
But steps you want to take is, all right, where is that backpack sold? Just at Walmart's, okay, where are the Walmart's there. Let's look at the sales of that backpack. Who paid with other than cash that came with a name. But then you're going to want to look at who ordered from Walmart, those backpacks. How many of those people are around Tucson? Then you want to get into other areas, which is can you find a person who bought big black rubber gloves?
COOPER: You've worked on cases where that's exactly what you did. You went around to stores to find out who bought the supplies for bombs or whatever.
MILLER: Exactly, and we were able to match all of the elements used to put together a certain explosive device to that person's online ordering process and other things like internet searches.
You know, who went out there and searched for Nancy Guthrie home address? That's probably not going to be that large a universe and some of the providers, given the proper subpoenas and all that can provide some of that.
COOPER: Does this feel like still an abduction for ransom? I mean does it feel like that at all to you, guys?
WACKROW: To me, it doesn't you know, because we just haven't been able to see of any of these ransom notes that have come in that they have been -- the authenticity isn't there because we don't have the proof of life.
And typically, when you have any type of kidnap and ransom situation, a hostage situation, it's a deal. You're brokering something for money here. We saw the money side, but we didn't see the person side of this.
So, to me, I think a lot of that was a distraction and I think some of these new notes that are coming in are even a further distraction for law enforcement. But the reality is, law enforcement still has to run them down to figure out whether or not they're an authentic ransom note or not. But at the end of the day, you know, too much time has gone by.
COOPER: Is that possibly, I mean, the worst-case scenario where, you know, miss Guthrie didn't survive and therefore the ransom falls apart? Or would you or would it still exist with trying to get a loved one back?
[20:20:15]
MILLER: You have to look at that possibility in this context, which is the original ransom note, contains some information that has not come out that could have been a really good guess, or demonstrates that they had knowledge of the scene of the crime and were inside and made these observations. That's on the plus side of authenticity.
As Jonathan pointed out, on the negative side, if you can't prove you have her or prove she's alive, that counts against it. But the possibility you raise, which is there was blood on the front steps. It is fairly certain that there was a confrontation in which she was injured. She's 84 and has a number of health issues. And probably was not able to access medication in captivity.
So, if something went terribly wrong, either in the beginning or the middle of this, that could be one explanation as to why that contact was broken or why they weren't able or willing to provide those other things.
WACKROW: But typically, in that case, you would see an acceleration to try to communicate, to try to make a deal, to try to get the money as fast as possible. You wouldn't have this lag in between the communication.
COOPER: David, you know, the increase by the FBI, the reward to $100,000 from $50,000.00, is that a big motivator?
SARNI: We'll that's a definite big motivator and we're wondering why because I know when they put the initial wanted poster out the missing person was $2,500.00 then they upped it. Then you put someone on TMZ who puts out that ransom note for one Bitcoin, which is about $66,000.00. So, now you have $100,000.00 that that is that's an increase. That's an incentive for people.
And if you know something and you want to get some value out of this, that information will be -- is pertinent and now I'm going to get paid for it. That makes people incentivized, not just for the sake of Nancy, but now, unfortunately, people -- money does influence people to do things.
MILLER: And let's make the distinction, any good citizen would call this in for nothing. Any person who thought well, maybe it could be something of value and I could get the reward might have that additional incentive for $25,000.00 or $50,000.00. For $100,000.00, you might attract that bad guy, the person who was the accomplice, who backed out. The friend or former associate of the person --
WACKROW: -- person who bought the backpack. You know, there's all these little data points that that someone could action off of.
COOPER: The advanced time that this person had or persons had, I mean ten hours or so you can go far in ten hours, obviously.
MILLER: And the time after the advance time, the time in captivity, you could have traveled during that time too, which is why the family put out that appeal to say, even if you're not near Tucson, please be looking out for this.
COOPER: And in terms of the next steps, I mean, they just keep widening the search, they keep trying to get as many videos as they can and see what comes from the gloves?
WACKROW: I think the positive thing here, Anderson, is when you see this volume and velocity of tips that are coming in there is really high engagement by the public. You know, everyone is watching this investigation, they're actioning off of that. They are trying to share as much as they can.
Now, it's a little bit of a double-edged sword when you have, you know, thousands, tens of thousands of tips coming in. The good news is you have tens of thousands of tips coming in. The bad news is you've got to process tens of thousands of tips. But that's why they keep pushing this information out, keep asking for the public's assistance. And at the end of the day, that is probably, it's going to be one of those tips that is going to solve this case.
COOPER: Jonathan Wackrow, David Sarni, thanks, John Miller, as well.
Up next, well see how persistent police work can turn up the smallest clues that can crack major criminal cases and have wide open.
Also, big news in Minneapolis the months long federal immigration surge, as they call it, that sparked angry protests and led to the killings of two American citizens is, according to authorities, coming to an end.
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THOMAS HOMAN, U.S. BORDER CZAR: I have proposed and President Trump has concurred, that this surge operation conclude. A significant drawdown that's already been underway this week and will continue through the next week.
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[20:27:24]
COOPER: The FBI and the Pima County Sheriff's Department say they have received and are sifting through thousands of tips in the search for Nancy Guthrie. They know that even the smallest bit of possible evidence, in this case, even intensively combing through thick brush near her home, can lead to a breakthrough. There's a long history, certainly a persistent, determined police work, cracking some of the toughest cases. Randi Kaye takes a look at that.
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RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): November 13th 2022, four college friends found dead in the home they shared in Idaho. For weeks, investigators searched for answers.
JAMES FRY, MOSCOW, IDAHO, POLICE CHIEF: We cannot say that there is no threat to the community.
KAYE (voice over): Then came the big break in the case ,a knife sheath found next to one of the victim's bodies contained DNA from a single male. They'd already tracked suspect Bryan Kohberger's Car near the crime scene using surveillance footage. A search at the family's home turned up DNA on a Q-tip belonging to his father, who turned out to be a match as the father of the person whose DNA was found on that knife sheath.
Investigators had their killer, Kohberger, was arrested across the country, in Pennsylvania.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are now certain who committed these unspeakable acts of evil.
KAYE (voice over): Before his trial started, Kohberger pleaded guilty and was sentenced to life in prison.
In December last year after someone shot 11 students at Brown University killing two, and then killed an MIT professor, authorities came up empty handed then suddenly, a big break.
MAYOR BRETT SMILEY (D), PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND: It was really a critical turning point and this was an individual who stepped up and stepped forward for all the right reasons.
KAYE (voice over): That individual, after seeing the surveillance video, posted a tip on Reddit about interacting with the suspect and seeing his car before the shooting.
The post read in part, "... I'm being dead serious. The police need to look into a gray Nissan with Florida plates, possibly a rental." The man directed police to his Reddit post.
SMILEY: It's sort of an amazing sequence of events.
KAYE (voice-over): Police tracked the car to the rental agency, according to the affidavit, which shared the renter's name, Claudio Manuel Neves Valente.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please cancel the earlier BOLO for the gray Nissan Sentra that's been wanted in connection with a homicide. Vehicle has been located in Salem, New Hampshire.
KAYE (voice-over): They found the suspect and his car abandoned at a storage facility. Police said he'd taken his own life.
In May 2015, a grisly discovery at a Washington D.C. mansion. A couple, their 10-year-old son and housekeeper, all found dead. The mansion set on fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fire appears to be intentionally set.
KAYE (voice-over): The suspect left something behind that was key to identifying him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're so glad to finally get him off the street.
KAYE (voice-over): Police found DNA on a piece of pizza crust left behind by the suspect. Darren Dellon Dennis Wint was arrested a week after the murders in Maryland. In 2018, he was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences.
In February 2005, Dennis Rader, known as the BTK killer, was arrested in Kansas. He was accused of killing 10 people between 1974 and 1991. After dodging investigators for decades, Rader sent a computer disc to the media, which police traced back to the church where Rader volunteered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line, BTK is arrested.
KAYE (voice-over): Rader was arrested in February 2005. He confessed to the crimes and was sentenced to life in prison. Randi Kaye, CNN.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me is now a retired FBI special agent and hostage negotiator, Richard Kolko. Richard, we talked the night the surveillance footage was released about how authorities could determine the height of the suspect, which they have, 5'9", 5'10", maybe even shoe size. How helpful do you think that information is going to be?
RICHARD KOLKO, RETIRED FBI HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, I think that eliminates a large population. So now they can start fine-tuning who they're looking for. And when they go look through other videos, it can save a lot of time because for those agents and officers that are going to be responsible for looking through countless hours of surveillance video, whether it's in a gas station, highways, homes, you talked about collecting the footage for that period of a month, at least you can quickly eliminate people that you don't necessarily have to look for.
So I think everything they can do is more helpful. And for that person out there who knows that tip, that's real helpful.
COOPER: And those gloves, which look like there may be something under them, they look kind of baggy or bigger than -- they don't look very tight, like tight black gloves on somebody's hands. What is the chance that there would be DNA, you know, remains on it that would be retrievable given that they've been outside -- if they've been outside for a long time, if in fact they weren't actually touching the skin?
KOLKO: Well, one of them was going to have to be the inner glove. And it certainly depends how he took the gloves off. If the other hand was still gloved, you can see when doctors do that or in a medical environment, how they peel their gloves off. I'm not sure he would know how to do that.
So there's a reasonable chance or possibility that DNA or some other fibers could have made it to those gloves. That's going to be helpful. That goes to the laboratory. FBI can do a quick DNA, which actually only takes a couple of hours if there is a sample on file. Otherwise, as we said, your previous guest said it could take a couple of weeks.
COOPER: You're former hostage negotiator, does this sound -- does this feel like to you or what does this feel like to you?
KOLKO: It's very confusing. We talked about the different scenarios. If somebody had a political reason to do this, whatever their grievance was, they would have wanted to air that grievance. And they had an opportunity. They had the world's biggest stage, but we never heard any comments about that.
If it was just a KFR, which is a kidnap for ransom, they would have quickly opened up negotiations and tried to get the money as quick as they can and at least say they were going to return her. That didn't happen. So that kind of leads us to some of the things we heard your previous panel say, which may be something just awful happened during the abduction or during the entry into the home.
COOPER: Do you think -- I mean, it's also possible that the person knew this was Savannah Guthrie's mom. I mean, it could be related to her employment, I guess.
KOLKO: Well, as an investigator, everybody's going to have a hunch. And if you go sit in the command post, there's going to be a bunch of agents, deputies and police officers that have hunches as well. I don't think they picked Savannah Guthrie's mother's home by accident.
And when you look at the whole neighborhood there, I've looked at the maps, I've looked at the other homes, and just to have picked that one out at 2:00 in the morning, and it just happened to be Nancy Guthrie's house, I'd be shocked if when they do resolve this, they find out that that was just an odd thing that happened.
[20:35:00]
COOPER: Yes. Richard Kolko, I appreciate your time.
Coming up next, Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar joins me as the president's border czar announces the end to the massive and twice deadly federal surge in her state. Also, the president weighs in on consequences or the lack of them a week after the racist post he has now blamed on an alleged staffer.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, have you fired or disciplines that staffer who posted the video from your account that included the Obamas?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, haven't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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COOPER: After almost two and a half months, two U.S. citizens shot and killed by federal agents, countless arrests, tear gas, tears, and largely peaceful public outcry against it all, Operation Metro Surge is ending in the Twin Cities. The surprise announcement came today.
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TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: I have proposed and President Trump has concurred that this surge operation conclude. A significant drawdown has already been underway this week and will continue to the next week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:40:15]
COOPER: That's border czar Tom Homan saying officers made more than 4,000 arrests during the operation, which he claims targeted serious offenders. As Minnesotans then the country discovered, though, almost anyone could find themselves stopped, detained, threatened, or killed.
Minnesota Governor Tim Walz today said the federal government's presence damaged the state and demanded compensation for it.
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GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: The federal government needs to pay for what they broke here. They are going to be accountability on the things that happened. But one of the things is the incredible and immense costs that were borne by the people of this state. The federal government needs to be responsible. You don't get to break things and then just leave without doing something about it.
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COOPER: The governor added that he wasn't going to hold his breath waiting for the government to, quote, "Do the right thing." As that was playing out, Senate Democrats blocked funding for the Department of Homeland Security after they and the White House couldn't come to an agreement on reforms at ICE.
The Senate then adjourned through the end of next week, making a partial DHS shutdown tomorrow night all but certain. Before leaving town, members of the Senate Committee overseeing the department held hearings on the Minnesota operation.
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SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: It's clearly evident that the public trust has been lost. To restore trust in ICE and Border Patrol, they must admit their mistakes. If you don't admit that there's a problem, then we're not going to get anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now, Minnesota Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar, who's running to succeed Tim Walz as governor. Senator Klobuchar, do you expect --
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: -- Kristi Noem, anybody in leadership, anywhere in this administration to admit a mistake?
KLOBUCHAR They should resign. We know that. When you look at what's happened here, two innocent lives lost, American citizens, Renee Good's last words, which forever echo in our mind, "I'm not mad at you." Alex Pretti's last words, "Are you OK" to a woman who'd been pushed down.
Then you look at the -- and you were there, Anderson, you were there day after day, which we so appreciated, on the rooftop of that building. And you met the people that had been racially profiled, or the people that had just had their kids taken from their arms, or the people, the unbelievable stories of the Hmong elder just ripped out of his house when they ran through his door and thrown into a car in nothing but his underwear.
And then they figure out they have the wrong guy after driving him around for 24 hours. So I don't expect this administration to admit as Rand Paul suggested, which I appreciated, that they did wrong. But I do expect them, one, to get ICE out of Minnesota, and I believe that is happening as we speak.
We've been promised that now. I was personally promised by Director Homan that would happen in two weeks, 10 days ago, and that has started. Secondly, there's got to be accountability here, not just for the deaths of these innocent citizens, but also for the people that have been beaten up and that had their property destroyed, citizens that were thrown into cars and brought to a detention center.
And despite what they say, we know the vast majority of those that were arrested were legally there in some capacity, and many of them were citizens.
COOPER: What happens to all these thousands of masked men -- we don't know their identities -- who probably couldn't make it on a police force, probably couldn't make it in the military? Some of them obviously have been serving for a long time, but some of them have 47 days of training because of the 47th president. What happens to these thousands of people? I mean, they have to be deployed somewhere.
KLOBUCHAR: Well, that's our concern. After they put $75 billion extra into this budget, making them bigger than the FBI, making them bigger than many military across the world, they are now unleashing them on other cities. So I would hope the next follow-up from Director Homan would be the training.
I believe we should take the excess money. It should go into local law enforcement. It could literally, that $75 billion, could pay for three years of those tax credits to protect people's premiums under the Affordable Care Act, something this administration wouldn't do.
You add to that that the deployment of 3,000 ICE agents in Minnesota costs at a minimum $18 million a week, $4 million some on hotel rooms a week. The cost of the salaries, the lost business that we have of small businesses.
And when my colleagues and friends across the country say, what can we do to help now? I say, come to our beautiful state. You were there, Anderson. Stay in those hotel rooms that those ICE agents are leaving.
[20:45:01]
Come maybe when the weather's a little warmer. But there is so much to do there from Prince's First Avenue to Lake Superior. And we need to recover economically and, of course, spiritually.
But the best thing of this story is that the people of Minnesota stood up. They did not look away. They stared ICE down and they did not blink. And now they are leaving.
COOPER: Yes, it is an extraordinary -- I mean, it's extraordinary what we have witnessed.
Senator Klobuchar, I appreciate it. Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Keeping them honest tonight, it's been a week since the president of the United States went on a late night social media spree, posting a racist meme, then blamed it on a staffer and defended it as some sort of a homage to the Lion King. He never identified that staffer.
The president was asked today whether the alleged staffer has faced any consequences for hitting Send. But before playing that, what he said, just a reminder of what landed on his feed at 11:44 a week ago tonight. Here it is, former President Obama and the former first lady portrayed as apes.
Now, the image in question appears in the last few seconds of a minute-long election conspiracy video full of lies, which the president is trumpeting as genius. Republican Senator Tim Scott, who is black, called the Obama posting the most racist thing I've seen out of this White House.
By day's end, the video was taken down. The president certainly was not apologizing. He was just blaming the staff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I guess during the end of it, there was some kind of a picture that people don't like. I wouldn't like it either, but I didn't see it. I just -- I looked at the first one and it was really about voter fraud and the machines, how crooked it is, how disgusting it is. Then I gave it to the people.
So generally they'd look at the whole thing, but I guess somebody didn't. They posted it and we took it down. And we took it down. But that was a voter fraud that nobody talks about. They don't like to talk about that post. We took it down as soon as we found out about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: They're not talking about the voter fraud because it didn't happen. It's a lie. He's the one who keeps talking about it. In fact, the post remained online for nearly 12 hours and only came down after an uproar crossing party lines and eventually going global.
And if ever there was a firing offense, you might think that creating that kind of racist meme for the boss would be it. Yet here is the president today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, have you fired or disciplined that staffer who posted the video from your account that included the Obamas? TRUMP: No, I haven't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So no firing, no discipline. Now for someone allegedly posting a racist attack on a former president and his wife on the social feed of someone who describes himself this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Nobody has done more for the black community than Donald Trump. And if you look, with the exception of Abraham Lincoln, possible exception, but the exception of Abraham Lincoln, nobody has done what I've done. I am the least racist person. I'm the least racist person in this room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The least racist person in the room, perhaps as long as the only other person in that room is the staffer he's not firing or naming, if he or she even exists at all.
Kaitlan Collins, our Chief White House Correspondent and Anchor of The Source joins us now. Are you hearing anything about why the president remains dug in on this, or is this just the nature of the person?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it's the nature, and I don't think anyone at the White House is surprised by the way the president answered that question. I think that's initially why you saw Karoline Leavitt come out and defend it in the way she did, even though it was criticized as, you know, she was trying to say it was a fake internet outrage and that it was playing off of a meme about the Lion King.
Obviously something that later was basically walked back when the post itself was deleted and blamed on a staffer. But you can see this is the mentality inside the West Wing, that when something like this happens and does actually generate controversy for good reason because of the actual substance of what the president posted there, that is the way they respond, with defiance, with, you know, kind of laughing it off.
And the president today, as you heard in his answer, did not seem, you know, all that kind of riled up about it, Anderson, in terms of how he talked about it. Instead, he pointed back to what was at the beginning of that video, which also wasn't true, these claims about voter fraud, claims that have never been borne out. And it's more of an explanation of why it got posted in terms of what was at the beginning of that video.
I will say, Anderson, in terms of the staffer that the White House blamed this on, there was a lot of skepticism in Trump's world that it was actually a staffer who did this. The video was posted at, like, 11:44 p.m. Eastern at night when the president was already in the residence and when he himself is often online and was reposting other things. But in terms of who the staffer was, there's been speculation internally because only a few people have access to the president's social media. One of the top people who before does that was believed to be on his honeymoon when all that happened.
[20:50:03]
And so I think a lot of people have stopped really, you know, trying to figure out who would get fired over this. None of them actually thought anyone would be ousted from their job for that post.
COOPER: Yes. Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
You can join Kaitlan, obviously, for The Source at the top of the hour and about 10 minutes from now.
You'll recall one of President Trump's first orders of business on Inauguration Day 2025 was to pardon nearly all the January 6 insurrectionists, the people who actually attacked the Capitol, attack police officers, as you see there. More than 1,500 offenders who the president routinely calls patriots.
We've done a series of stories about those alleged patriots who have since gone on to commit more crimes, like this man circled in video. He was pardoned for breaking into the Capitol. This past October, he was arrested for threatening to kill House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.
And this man found guilty of assaulting a police officer during the insurrection, but pardoned by President Trump before he could be sentenced. He went on to conspire to kill the FBI agents who had investigated his case.
Well, tonight we have another patriot update. Meet Andrew Paul Johnson, charged with storming the Capitol, pardoned by the president. There you see him circled in the crowd. He was arrested just six months later for multiple child sexual abuse charges in Florida.
And apparently he tried to buy the silence of one of his child victims by claiming he stood to receive $10 million as restitution for being a January 6er (ph). Well, this week he was found guilty and could receive a life sentence. Patriot indeed.
We also learned the fate of another so-called patriot, this man, Jared Wise. He's a former FBI agent turned insurrectionist who, during the assault on law enforcement, yelled, "Kill them, kill them, kill them!" It turns out he has since been hired by the Trump Department of Justice.
Attorney General Pam Bondi was pushed to explain his employment at yesterday's hearing. Her response was simply, "I believe he was pardoned by President Trump." And yes, indeed, he was.
Up next, a mother on love and loss. Mary Herridge's son, Grant, was killed last year in an accidental fall over a 50-foot waterfall in a national park. She's a guest on my online show, All There Is Live, which starts tonight at 9:15 p.m. eastern at CNN.com/AllThereIs. You'll hear from her in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY HERRIDGE, MOTHER: I had this worry that something was going to happen to him, and then six weeks later, like, my biggest fear came true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:12]
COOPER: Tonight at 9:15 p.m., I hope you join me for All There Is Live. It's my streaming show about grief. You can only see it online at CNN.com/AllThereIs. One of my guests tonight is a mom named Mary Herridge.
Her 18-year-old son, Grant, died last June. He was on a high school graduation trip to Olympic National Park. He slipped and fell over a 50-foot waterfall.
Tonight on All There Is Live, we'll play you the message she first sent me, and I'll interview her. Here's some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Anderson, this is Mary Herridge. My 18-year-old, Grant Herridge died in June in Olympic National Park. He had graduated high school, and he left two days later with his childhood best friend for this epic national park road trip that he had planned for over two years. Grant was having truly the time of his life.
On June 8th, he and his friend hiked to the top of Sol Duc Falls, and Grant tried to hop onto a rock at the top of the falls. One foot made the landing, but his other knee buckled, and he fell into the water, and he went over the falls.
The witnesses say he had the biggest smile on his face before he fell. The day he died, it felt like we slipped into the upside down, and I'm beginning to accept the fact that we'll never resurface. We just have to learn how to live down here.
It takes a toll, this trauma of grief, this level, it takes a toll on your memory, your attention, your body. I have felt pain that I never knew I could survive, but I've also seen and felt so much love. I've learned that while most days the colors of the world seem muted, beauty still finds a way to break through.
One of my son's favorite quotes was by Frederick Buechner, who wrote, "Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." Grant's life was the most beautiful thing, and his death was the most terrible thing. I'm learning how to move in a world where those things coexist, and to be brave.
I had this worry that something was going to happen to him, and then six weeks later, like my biggest fear came true. And I don't know, I'm like here on the other side, and now it's like, OK, what do you do now that your biggest fear actually happened? Like I'm still standing.
I was afraid it would be the end of things, but I don't think it is. I feel his love, and I feel like we still have this relationship. Like it didn't -- my biggest fear didn't necessarily come true. It came true in one way, but not in another, if that makes sense.
COOPER: Yes, it does. You feel him. It's one of the things that I never understood until recently when somebody on this podcast said it to me, is that you can still have a relationship with somebody who has died.
HERRIDGE: I know it's like this weird gift, right, that you didn't expect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: She's remarkable. You can watch the full conversation with Mary tonight, 9:15 p.m. Eastern on All There Is Live. It's my streaming show, companion to my podcast. Find it online, CNN.com/AllThereIs in 15 minutes from now. I'll see you there.
The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
