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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Hillary Clinton Faces Off with Oversight Committee in Epstein Probe; Interview with Rep. James Walkinshaw (D-VA); FBI Director Kash Patel Ousts Personnel Tied to Trump Documents Probe. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired February 26, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well, we'll see what happens, of course, as these days and weeks before spring break continue. Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.

AC360 with Anderson begins now.

[20:00:30]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, saying she's confident her husband had no knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes, Hillary Clinton wraps up more than six hours before the House Oversight Committee in proceedings, one Democratic member is calling a clown show.

Also tonight, beer today, gone tomorrow, FBI Director Kash Patel went from chug-a-luging beer on a taxpayer funded trip to the Olympics to firing veteran agents who investigated the President's keeping classified documents in a ballroom and bathroom at Mar-a-Lago.

And later, almost a month since she last saw her mom. We have new information on Savannah Guthrie's decision to return to the "Today" show.

Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with Hillary Clinton's marathon deposition, more than six hours of it before the House Oversight Committee. Her part in the Epstein investigation, or as one Democrat on the committee described it, "an incredibly unserious clown show".

The former Secretary of State and presidential candidate did not use those words afterward. She did, however, say this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't know how many times I had to say, I did not know Jeffrey Epstein. I never went to his island. I never went to his homes. I never went to his offices, so it's on the record numerous times.

It then got at the end quite unusual because I started being asked about UFOs and a series of questions about Pizzagate. One of the most vile bogus conspiracy theories that was propagated on the internet that was serving as the basis of a member'' questions to me. They had a chance to do it in public, and I wish they had done it in public. And I think they're making the wrong decision avoiding doing it in public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the deposition, as she's pointing out, took place behind closed doors in Chappaqua, New York City suburb where the Clintons live. We did get this, look at it however, when republican committee member Lauren Boebert leaked this photo to a right-wing podcaster Benny Johnson, who put it online. Former President Clinton testifies tomorrow.

Now, neither he nor Secretary Clinton volunteered for this, something that Committee Chairman James Comer made clear going in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): We worked for six months to get the Clintons to come in, and then they acted like they were going to come in, and then they didn't show up. And obviously we moved to hold the Clintons in contempt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: They had been pushing for public hearings. Republicans on the committee said no, but this evening that's the Clintons had been pushing for public hearings. This evening, Chairman Comer told reporters the entire video from today would be released as soon as possible, and sounded pleased with how things went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMER: I think this was a productive deposition today. I think we learned a lot. There were a lot of questions that we asked that we, you know, weren't satisfied with the answers that we got. The number of times that she said, I don't know, you'll have to ask my husband was more than a dozen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That's because, according to Secretary Clinton the former President has a history with Jeffrey Epstein, though he's both denied and has never been accused of any wrongdoing in connection with Epstein and she does not.

These photos of him came to light in the Epstein files and a jacuzzi here with a redacted figure. And in this one, swimming with Ghislaine Maxwell and a redacted person, apparently another woman,

In addition to telling Republicans that her husband, not her, was the one to ask about Maxwell and Epstein, Secretary Clinton, in her opening statement, called the entire proceeding a distraction, quoting her now, "You have compelled me to testify, fully aware that I have no knowledge that would assist your investigation in order to distract attention from President Trump's actions and to cover them up despite legitimate calls for answers," she continues, "if this committee is serious about learning the truth about Epstein's trafficking crimes, it would not rely on press gaggles to get answers from our current President on his involvement. You would ask him directly, under oath, about the tens of thousands of times he shows up in the Epstein files. If the majority was serious, it would not waste time on fishing expeditions".

In a similar vein, Democratic committee member James Walkinshaw, who joins us shortly, said this about Ghislaine Maxwell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES WALKINSHAW (D-VA): Donald Trump needs to direct Attorney General Bondi to release all the files to unredacted the illegal redactions, and he needs to unequivocally rule out a pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell, who is a monster convicted of child sex trafficking.

[20:05:07]

Why has he not ruled out pardoning her? Why did the Deputy Attorney General spend hours with her? And then why was she transferred to a cushy, lower security prison? Those are important questions we should be asking about Ghislaine Maxwell.

We no longer have to ask whether there is any relationship between Secretary Clinton and Ghislaine Maxwell, there was not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Not exactly, Secretary Clinton was asked why Maxwell was invited to daughter Chelsea's wedding in 2010. She replied that Maxwell had not been invited, but had attended as the plus one for someone who was.

For more on all this let's go first to M.J. Lee in Chappaqua. So, what else do you know happened behind closed doors?

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we obviously were not inside this closed-door deposition, so we won't know the full details until that video and transcript get released. And Chairman Comer did say that he is hoping to release those things within the next 24 hours or so.

But to hear the Secretary of State tell it, she said many of the questions were quite repetitive and that she repeatedly answered that what she has said before, that she didn't know Jeffrey Epstein, that she doesn't have information to offer about Epstein's crimes.

And she said that at times the deposition which spanned some almost seven hours, Anderson, was unusual that Republican lawmakers as we had earlier reported, were asking her questions about UFOs.

They were asking her about Pizzagate, that conspiracy theory about pedophiles running the government. And I think for Democrats who came out and spoke with reporters as well in the middle of the day, you know, they were sort of despondent about the fact that they had said this was going to be a waste of time, that they probably will not be getting any information that is new from the former First Lady and they are using this as an opportunity to basically call on other people to be deposed in this manner. Other people who might know more than Hillary Clinton, including the current President, Donald Trump.

Now, in terms of some of the other questions that Hillary Clinton received in the room, Anderson, I'm told that she was asked whether she has spoken about Jeffrey Epstein with some of the people around him. She answered no and at one point she even said she's not even familiar with some of the names that she's being asked about.

I'm also told that she was at least at one point asked about the actions of her husband, Bill Clinton, including whether she has feelings about the fact that she he was, this is according to the lawmaker getting massages from young women, and that she responded by saying she's not here to talk about her feelings.

COOPER: And what do we expect tomorrow when President Clinton testifies?

LEE: Well, to state the obvious, Bill Clinton is going to be a very different story than Hillary Clinton as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein. Of course, they had an established relationship going back many years, and he has appeared in the Epstein files, including on flight logs.

We have seen photos of him, including with women. And so, we expect that this is going to be quite a different day, just in terms of the substance of the questions that the former President is going to receive and I asked the former Secretary of State when she came out, whether she feels confident that Bill Clinton didn't know anything about the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein. And she said, she is confident that the two men's relationship ended several years before anything about his criminal conduct came to light, and that that's exactly what he's planning on testifying tomorrow -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, M.J. Lee, thanks very much.

With me now is Virginia Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw. He sits on the House Oversight Committee and took part in Hillary Clinton's deposition today.

Congressman thanks for being here.

What did you ask former Secretary Clinton? And I'm wondering what your biggest takeaways from today was?

WALKINSHAW: Well, I want to respect the rules of the deposition and not get into the specific questions that I asked or others asked. I can just say I asked the same question. I think that many others asked, ultimately is did you have a relationship with Epstein? No. Did you have a real relationship with Maxwell? No. Did you have knowledge of the crimes? No, no, no, no. We knew that going in. We know that now coming out. I was chuckling when I saw Chairman Comer there say it was a productive six hours. Asking the same questions with different words for six hours is not productive in my book. And that's what happened today.

COOPER: It did not seem productive use of --

WALKINSHAW: Absolutely not. There were two things that happened. We asked the same questions over and over, using different words and in different ways. And then there were some off the wall questions, as has been reported, that were asked. I didn't find either of those exercises to be productive.

COOPER: Well, your Republican colleague, Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, said that President Trump has been exonerated and cooperated with law enforcement, and that's why the committee would not depose him in its investigation. In your view has President Trump been exonerated? He said that multiple times.

[20:10:09]

WALKINSHAW: That's an absurd statement. It's absolutely absurd. There's nothing in the files that exonerates President Trump. It's fair to say there's nothing in the files that proves he violated the law, but we know the files demonstrate and other information demonstrates he had a long and deep relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

Virginia Giuffre was trafficked from Mar-a-Lago. Trump knew that that happened. He knew that Virginia Giuffre and his words was stolen from Mar-a-Lago we have the bizarre birthday card, birthday note. Trump denies it but the bizarre birthday note that Trump wrote to Jeffrey Epstein. We have the files and e-mails from Jeffrey Epstein saying "Trump knew about the girls."

Evidence after evidence, after evidence connecting Trump and Epstein, the idea that he's been exonerated is absolutely laughable. It's not true. He needs to answer questions.

COOPER: When Congresswoman Luna says that the President cooperated with law enforcement, do you know what she's referring to?

WALKINSHAW: I have no idea. There's no evidence of him cooperating with law enforcement. To the contrary, he's done everything in his power once he learned he was in the files to prevent the files from coming out and being released.

There is no evidence that he cooperated with law enforcement. There is a redacted, illegally redacted file that I reviewed with Jeffrey Epstein's lawyers, recounting a 2009 conversation with Donald Trump where Donald Trump, in my view, is not truthful about his flying on Epstein's plane, he's not truthful about whether he did or did not eject Epstein from Mar-a-Lago.

So, the record is Trump has been lying, lying, lying about his relationship with Epstein. In my view, that doesn't exonerate you. COOPER: We saw what you played, what you said outside the deposition, asking why Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred to a lower security prison in Texas after meeting with the Deputy Attorney General. Do you think that question is ever going to be answered?

WALKINSHAW: I fear that it won't. I think it is clear that Ghislaine Maxwell has some information that Donald Trump doesn't want the world to know.

Ghislaine Maxwell said in our deposition with her or rather, her attorney said that if she received a pardon, she could speak publicly and she would explain why Donald Trump is innocent.

So, clearly there's a deal that she's seeking. A pardon and she will come out and say, Donald Trump is innocent. Now, she is a known liar, perjurer, lied during her trials, can't trust anything that she's saying, but she's putting a deal on the table and Donald Trump, in refusing to reject that pardon, is leaving that deal on the table.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton said that UFOs came up, Pizzagate came up. We're you surprised by that?

WALKINSHAW: No, given some of the Republican members of our committee, I was not surprised by that. I think it's also important to note Congresswoman Boebert, who leaked the photo in violation of the committee rules. She came out and spoke to the press and they asked whether she had any takeaways from the deposition. And the only thing she could come up with is she admired Secretary Clinton's blue suit.

So, we have a Republican saying nothing productive came out of this deposition other than her admiring Secretary Clinton's blue suit.

COOPER: And that's the photo that she leaked out. Congressman Walkinshaw, I appreciate your time and you'll be back tomorrow.

WALKINSHAW: Yes, thanks for having me.

COOPER: Thanks. Coming up next, Julie K. Brown's new reporting on how Jeffrey Epstein used the rich and powerful to stay out of jail so long.

Also, back together at last, a very happy President reunited with New York's Mayor, whom he calls a communist and a friend.

And later, is that North Korea's future leader with its current leader? New word that Kim Jong-un may be anointing his daughter as his successor but you may be surprised how little anyone actually knows about her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language)

(KIM JONG UN, ESCORTING HER DAUGHTER TOWARDS THE STAGE IN FRONT OF MANY PEOPLE IN NORTH KOREA) (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:25]

COOPER: More on our top story, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton answering lawmakers' questions behind closed doors for more than six hours today about her family's past ties to Jeffrey Epstein. The former First Lady saying she did not know Jeffrey Epstein, had no knowledge of his crimes and had limited interactions with Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell.

There's a fascinating, in-depth article out now by award winning "Miami Herald" investigative reporter Julie K. Brown and is titled "How Jeffrey Epstein Sought to Infiltrate the Justice System."

Brown details how newly released documents reveal the extent of Epstein's contacts with state and federal prosecutors, assistant district attorneys and more. Julie is also the author of "Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story". She joins me now.

I want to get to your extensive new reporting in just a moment but first, what's your reaction to former Secretary Clinton testifying behind closed doors today? Do you believe she would have relevant information beyond what she's publicly or what what's been publicly reported?

JULIE K. BROWN, "MIAMI HERALD" INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I mean, you know, you just don't know what all these people know. I do know that I have never really heard her name. I speak to victims pretty frequently and new victims all the time. And I've never heard her name ever mentioned. And, you know, quite frankly, I haven't heard former President Clinton's name mentioned very often.

So, that doesn't mean that they don't have information. It just means that there are people, certainly whose names I hear a lot more frequently than the Clintons.

COOPER: So, the new reporting is fascinating. You write that the Justice Department was well aware of Epstein's attempts to compromise the legal system and cozy up to some of the very same people who were meant to hold him accountable. Can you talk more about what you learned?

BROWN: Well, you know, there's always been a mystery about why Jeffrey Epstein got this sweetheart deal to begin with. And it's important to ask those questions because had they prosecuted him, or had they somehow investigated this, which they stopped investigating it because they decided to give him this plea deal. But had they kept going, there's a good chance we wouldn't be sitting here and there would be countless other victims who he abused after this plea deal who would have been spared the trauma of -- the sexual abuse they suffered.

[20:20:43] And so, what this story is about is how is sort of an attempt to figure out how did that happen, how did the deal happen? And even though we still are looking for answers, it does show that Epstein was very aggressively trying to court some of the very prosecutors who were on his case and to some degree, he did.

After he got the deal he had a long relationship, business friendship with at least one of the prosecutors who gave him that deal or who negotiated it.

COOPER: Yes, you uncovered that a prosecutor from the same office investigating Epstein in Florida, not assigned to his case, was later hired by Epstein to represent him in other legal matters, including to help modify the terms of his non-prosecution agreement. Have you ever heard of an arrangement like that?

BROWN: No. I mean, nobody's even ever heard of a non-prosecution agreement being attached to a crime like this. I mean, this was a defendant who was accused at that time of molesting, raping, sexually abusing at least 25 girls, you know, thirteen, fourteen-year-olds. So, the fact that that non-prosecution agreement was even contemplated in this case is just ridiculous.

COOPER: And you also report that Epstein lobbied the assistant district attorneys under then Manhattan D.A. Cyrus Vance, trying to water down or eliminate his sex offender restrictions in New York, which were part of the plea agreement. How far along did that effort get?

BROWN: Well, it went all the way to the Manhattan Supreme Court. In fact, it was one of the Supreme Court Justices that said, what are you doing here? I've never seen an Assistant District Attorney come here and argue to lower the risk factor for a sex offender.

So, they were called on it by the Supreme Court Justice. And then subsequently, years later you know, former D.A. Vance said that they had made an error in judgment, a legal error in this. But what we found, though, is that his Assistant District Attorneys were meeting for hours with Epstein's lawyers.

So, they were coaching these Assistant District Attorneys on the legal arguments they needed to make in order to lower his sex offender registration.

COOPER: It's incredible reporting,. Julie K. Brown, thank you as always.

Coming up next, what FBI Director Kash Patel did after he put down the beer and how it fits into the President's retribution campaign against law enforcement professionals including FBI agents who investigated him.

Also, a new development regarding Nancy Guthrie's home and Savannah Guthrie's return to the "Today" show. We'll have more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:27:47]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(VIDEO OF KASH PATEL CELEBRATING WITH MEN'S HOCKEY TEAM IN WINTER OLYMPICS.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: When we last showed you this video, what FBI Director Kash Patel was doing in it was itself the story. Tonight, it's what he's done since, namely ordering the ouster of at least ten employees involved in the investigation of the President's alleged mishandling of classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago.

Now, that's according to four people briefed on the matter, as is just the latest in a series of such firings, personnel who have investigated the President on January 6th at the bureau.

Now, the President, as you know, was charged with 40 counts including willful retention of national defense information, conspiracy to obstruct justice. These are some of the documents that were found.

Four months before the 2024 election, this judge, Aileen Cannon, a Trump appointee, dismissed the case. This week, she permanently barred the Justice Department from releasing Special Counsel Jack Smith's final report on his investigation.

Joining us now is former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. So, Kash Patel, Andrew, is alleging that previous FBI leadership essentially worked in secret to try and evade oversight to subpoena his and Susie Wiles' records. Is that what happened?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, not at all. You know, there's a question as to whether or not Kash Patel is actively and intentionally misrepresenting the work of the people he just fired and others or if he just doesn't understand how the FBI works, which I think is also possible.

You know, witnesses in an investigation are very frequently the subject of grand jury subpoenas to access their telephone records, not their actual calls, just the record of who they called at what time, on what day, and who called them.

This is a standard investigative procedure that you do when you're trying to vet a witness and what they're telling you or what testimony they might give.

Now, Patel was an obvious witness in the Mar-a-Lago case because he inserted himself into it. He was very active publicly in defending what the President had done, and he concocted this theory that the President had actually declassified all those records before he took them to Mar-a-Lago, which there was no evidence of that ever happening.

He was subpoenaed to testify in front of the January 6th committee and in front of the grand jury investigating Mar-a-Lago. So, you know, the fact that they were looking at his phone records is just a standard investigative technique in a case like this.

[20:30:15]

COOPER: In Patel's Senate confirmation hearing, he said and I quote, "There will be no politicization at the FBI. There will be no retributive actions taken by any FBI should I be confirmed as the FBI director?" Does that square with what you've seen today?

MCCABE: Absolutely not. Kash Patel has gone on a campaign of firing people in the FBI or pushing them out, coercing them to resign if they had anything to do with the cases targeting Donald Trump. So, he said that to the Senate, but he has done the exact opposite since he's been director of the FBI.

COOPER: Is it legal? I mean, if this is about retribution, is there any recourse for these agents?

MCCABE: Yes, sure there is I mean, it's entirely, I'm not going to say possible, I'm going to say likely that many of these terminations violate certainly violate FBI and DOJ policy but possibly even violate the law, violate the civil service protections that all of these employees are entitled to. And I sincerely hope that every one of them files a lawsuit against the FBI and the department in the same way that I did.

And I expect if they're willing to go through the years and years of fighting to see that those lawsuits to the end, they'll be rewarded with the benefits and the things that they lost unfairly with these retaliatory terminations. But that's a lot to ask on people who, you know aren't sitting around on piles of money that they can spend on lawyers.

COOPER: Yes, and it costs a lot. Andrew McCabe, appreciate it. Thank you.

NBC news is reporting that law enforcement is preparing to return Nancy Guthrie's home to her family. They turned it over once before, just days after she was kidnaped. But that changed when investigators released the door camera footage of the suspect and received thousands of new leads in the case.

We've also learned that Savannah Guthrie intends to return to the "Today" show at some point. CNN's chief media analyst Brian Stelter joins us with more on that. So, what more are you learning about Savannah Guthrie's return?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, it's a significant moment for Savannah in a significant week in this really awful ordeal.

When she came out earlier this week and acknowledged for the first time that her mother may be lost. That was the same statement that others have been, you know thinking about maybe not wanting to say publicly, not wanting to acknowledge that after nearly a month this may have a very tragic ending. But I think that statement from Savannah does open the door to her starting to maybe think a little bit about what she does in the future. And I'm told by two sources close to NBC that she does intend to come back to the "Today" show at some point.

When that might happen, is totally uncertain and completely up to her, given this month's agonizing, all-consuming search for her mom.

But word of her intentions that she does want to come back to work at some point, it might calm some of the speculation among viewers and frankly, among T.V. news insiders as well. There's been some speculation that she would never come back to work.

Hoda Kotb has been filling in while Guthrie is gone, and that's been, it's been a great deal to her to have her former co-host back. But the idea here is that Savannah is starting to think about maybe how to get back to something that might feel a little bit like normal.

COOPER: Yes, it's just a horrific situation all around. We wish her the best. Brian, thanks very much, Brian Stelter.

Up next, the mayor goes to Washington. That's New York City's mayor getting a big grin from the President today and a second White House visit. The President has called him a communist and nice guy.

This could be the next leader of North Korea. Is that an actual possibility? What we know about Kim Jong-un's daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)

(KIM JONG UN, ESCORTING DAUGHTER TOWARDS THE STAGE IN FRONT OF MANY PEOPLE IN NORTH KOREA)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:38:32]

COOPER: Well, they meet again. That's a big smile from President Trump with New York's Democratic socialist Mayor Zohran Mamdani at the White House today. The mayor brought props.

On the right, the President is holding a copy of a 1975 "New York Daily News" front page showing then President Gerald Ford and the headline "Ford to City: Drop Dead. On the left, a mock-up of that same front page. But with the current President's photo and the words "Trump to City: Let's Build".

It's part of the mayor's pitch for a big federally funded housing effort that he's seeking.

Back in November, the pair had another remarkably friendly Oval Office meeting the President, suggesting the two actually had a lot in common, even though he's often falsely referred to him as a communist.

On Tuesday night, the President tossed out that word again when he mentioned Mamdani during his State of the Union Speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And even the new communist mayor of New York City. I think he's a nice guy, actually, I speak to him a lot, bad policy, but nice guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining us now CNN Political Director David Chalian, former New York Mayor Bill de Blasio and CNN political commentator Brad Todd.

This is the strangest pairing, David, we've all seen the dear leader cabinet meetings where people go around the table and basically you know, praise the President. He usually sits there stone faced. He even possibly fell asleep during, you know, while Marco Rubio was speaking now you see this smile on his face every time he talks about Mamdani. Is there any other politician who has figured out President Trump's love language?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Not that I've seen, not just a politician, even from his own party here, Anderson, but politicians around the world are trying to figure out how to manage Donald Trump and get -- navigate that relationship, which can be really tricky at times.

And here is the 34-year-old Democratic socialist mayor who is new to this national political scene, who seems to have figured something out here. I mean they're just like two boys from Queens like, that are able to bond. And of course, today, coming with the props, as you noted definitely understanding the flattery thing that works with Donald Trump but also just seemingly to know how to balance the relationship that works for both of them.

COOPER: Mayor de Blasio, I mean, I got to say, when I saw that, you know Gerald Ford, that classic headline ford to city drop dead. It is kind of brilliant to bring this other newspaper with a positive thing that would praise the President for building the city that he's spent most of his life in.

[20:40:58]

BILL DE BLASIO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's absolutely brilliant, Anderson, what I love about this, you know, there's a certain like, happy warrior reality about the way Mamdani does things. I mean there's this beautiful audacity to go there with these mocked up headlines like, no sense that that's going to seem hokey or anything because it's exactly the language that Trump speaks to have props and to suggest something grand that Trump will be the author of.

It's just a great move and what's fascinating about these two guys is, of course, their similarities. They both ran as populists. They both kind of don't have anything to lose when they take some of these risks. No one's going to doubt Mamdani's ideological differences with Trump, or vice versa. But what I think we're seeing here is Mamdani is just playing this situation like a fiddle he understands what gets to Trump, and he's doing it with an audacity. That actually is what Trump respects.

COOPER: Brad, how do you see it? I mean, it is, I don't know if, you know, the mayor is going to get anything out of this, but do you think he will? How do you see what Trump is doing here?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, the other thing and Trump have in common is they both conquered their political party over the objections of party leaders. Nothing, Trump probably respects that. But concrete and scaffolding are certainly Donald Trump's love language, and Mamdani has decided to do that instead of talking about seizing the means of production, which he previously has talked about, which is the source of his communist job.

COOPER: Yes, seizing the means of production would probably not be a good conversation starter.

TODD: Yes.

COOPER: David, is there a political risk, you think for Mamdani here?

CHALIAN: I don't, because of what Mayor de Blasio was saying. I don't think anyone is going to think all of a sudden like, Mamdani is going MAGA or something like that where he'll offend his base.

I do think there's a little bit of political management that Trump may need to do with his own party because, you know, Anderson, Republicans, when Mamdani was running and when he won in New York City in his very substantial victory in November, Republicans from the RNC down were like this is it. This is the poster child of the Democratic Party this is what we're running against. And yet it's hard to do that when the person who is in charge of your party is constantly praising him as a good guy, putting his arm around him, bringing him into the Oval Office. That is a little bit of complicated messaging, I think, for Republicans.

COOPER: Mayor de Blasio, I wanted to ask you about what happened at Columbia -- a student at Columbia from Azerbaijan was arrested by ICE agents in her dorm it was alleged the agent's gained entry under false pretenses. DHS, I should point out, denies that.

The student posted this on social media while in custody, which reads: "DHS illegally arrested me please help."

This afternoon, Mayor Mamdani posted this which says that he brought up his concerns about the student with the President and that he, "... has just informed me that she will be released imminently". And apparently, she has now been released. I'm wondering what your reaction to how this all played out.

DE BLASIO: A couple of quick things. First of all, what an extraordinary day for Mamdani that he starts the day talking about his theme affordability. A plan could mean like 30,000 or more New Yorkers get affordable housing, and then later in the day, he helps free a student who is inappropriately arrested by ICE. Another key Mamdani theme taking on ICE and standing up for immigrants very, very powerful.

I think what's interesting here is did the President play a role? I wouldn't be surprised at all because I think the President understands he has painted himself in a corner. I'm not sure he understands the moral piece of it, but he certainly understands the political piece of it what ICE has been doing has lost the faith of the American people.

And when you go into a dorm and you have to, you know, these agents apparently said they were looking for a missing person so they lied to get in and they arrest a student who is clearly not a threat.

This is exactly the kind of thing that is driving everyday Americans crazy. It looks reckless. It looks like taking away people's liberties. I think Trump was quick to say, let's get out of this right now.

COOPER: Brad, were you surprised by this -- that she's been released?

TODD: No, I'm not. I'm not, I'm not surprised because, you know, I think the President is trying to pivot to make clear that they are trying to take serious criminals and people who are felons because they've crossed the border twice and not be as focused on collaterals. I hope that's what they're doing. I think it would be a smart move, and I think it would help rebuild the advantage Republicans rightly should have on immigration.

COOPER: David, how about you?

[20:45:26]

CHALIAN: Yes, no, I think what Brad is saying makes sense. He is definitely talked about a pivot. Weve seen some change and yet he doesn't want to completely lose. And you saw this in the State of the Union address, Anderson, all that immigration rhetoric that does enthuse his base, that is part of his political identity.

So, keeping it focused on getting rid of the worst of the worst, which is actually what he initially campaigned on. And then it sort of got away from him in execution. Getting back to that may actually get him back to having a better standing on one of his most prominent and identifiable issues.

COOPER: David, there is new reporting in "The Washington Post" that the pro-Trump activists, who say they are in coordination with The White House, are circulating a 17-page draft of an executive order that would use the claim that China interfered in the 2020 election as a basis to declare a national emergency that would, according to them, give the President extraordinary power over voting including banning mail-in ballots voting machines. Do you think there's something President Trump is likely to pursue?

CHALIAN: Well, I don't know if he's likely to pursue it but I know that there are a lot of Democrats and a lot of elections officials, irrespective of party who are starting to move into hyperdrive about trying to prepare around this election integrity issue. Because this is not the first kind of warning shot that Donald Trump has put out there suggesting that perhaps you know, getting involved in the election in some way that may be untoward is something that is not off the table.

Again, I'm not going to predict what Donald Trump will do here and the legal system will take care of whether or not that's a legal executive order. But I do think we're seeing a new level of engagement from people across the country to make sure that the election is as fortified as it can be.

COOPER: Mayor de Blasio, are you concerned about even the term election integrity?

DE BLASIO: A hundred percent, Anderson. Look, Anderson, first of all, it certainly suggests once again that Trump is increasingly desperate about the midterms. You know he's throwing up, first, the redistricting efforts and so many other things he's trying to do to fix the system in his favor because he knows he's going to lose otherwise. But I think the bigger point here is its unconstitutional, it's a profound danger to our American democracy. And I think, it once again represents the kind of overreach that is causing Trump to lose faith with a lot of independents and moderates

I guarantee you, I agree with David, I think state election officials of both parties are going to fight against this. I also think the Supreme Court is obviously going to say this is a state issue. And now, honestly, they have some beef with Trump after his comments in the tariff case. So, there will be a tough road for Trump on this one.

COOPER: Brad, I'm out of time, but really quick.

TODD: Well, states' congress can help an alter state regulations and I think this is a great chance to compromise. Democrats should offer to support national photo I.D. and work a compromise with Donald Trump'

COOPER: Brad Todd, David Chalian, Mayor de Blasio, thanks very much. We'll have the latest from North Korea ahead. We'll be right back.

Oh actually, let's go to North Korea, I'm sorry. I thought we were going to break.

Leader Kim Jong-un is promising to further grow his country's nuclear arsenal. These are images of last night's military parade in Pyongyang showing off thousands of soldiers.

Alongside Kim Jong-un was his teenage daughter in a matching leather jacket. Now observers are speculating she may be next in line of succession. Will Ripley takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): North Korea's First-Daughter is the spitting image of her dad arriving at this week's military parade in matching black leather coats. The teenager even walks ahead of her own mother, a sign of her rising rank and status.

In North Korean state media, she's called Kim Jong-un's beloved dear daughter. And yet, not once has state media ever mentioned her name. It's believed to be Kim Ju A, a detail revealed by none other than Dennis Rodman, who says he held her as a baby when the U.S. basketball star made a controversial visit to Pyongyang in 2013.

DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA PLAYER: If we could just open the door just a little bit for people to come here.

RIPLEY (voice over): North Korea has also never revealed Kim Ju A's age, thought to be around 13 or 14. This is the paradox of Pyongyang's Princess growing up in front of a world that knows almost nothing about her, but now cannot stop talking about her speculating about whether she's her father's chosen successor.

Rumors began swirling after her 2022 debut fittingly, at a massive missile launch, a not-so-subtle signal to the world that the Kim dynasty will carry on with a nuclear armed insurance policy.

We do know she joined her father on his armored green train for an official state visit to Beijing last year, meeting world leaders like China's Xi Jinping and Russia's Vladimir Putin. One reason why South Korea's spy agency, the National Intelligence Service, told lawmakers behind closed doors, Kim has now entered the stage of nominating his daughter as successor and that she's no longer just showing up at big events, but also weighing in on policy decisions.

LEE SEONG-KWEUN, SOUTH KOREAN PARLIAMENTARY INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE MEMBER (through translator): She is giving her direct opinions on some policies during her on-site inspections.

[20:50:30]

RIPLEY (voice over): Kim also just promoted his younger sister, Kim Yo Jong, a close aide and trusted confidante long rumored to be his successor. Before Kim Ju A's big reveal.

Kim Jong-un is also believed to have other children. There's long been speculation about a possible older son, and if that son exists, the equation could change quickly if he ever steps forward.

Kim Jong-un himself had only a brief time in the public eye before his father died in 2011. He had been studying at a private boarding school in Switzerland before much of the world even knew he existed. His father, North Korea's second leader Kim Jong-Il, had decades in the spotlight before taking over from his father, the country's founding leader Kim Il-sung.

Seoul's latest intelligence assessment about Kim Ju A's future may be their strongest to date, but in North Korea, nothing is official until its official. Raising the question has North Korea's next leader already been decided, or are there others waiting in the wings?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Will Ripley joins me now from Taipei.

North Korea held an important political gathering earlier this week. Did that give any clues about the successor?

RIPLEY: Yes, it was their Ninth Party Congress, which they hold once every five or so years, and we were hoping for some sort of clue, Anderson, but there were no surprises, no clear succession plans.

Kim Jong-un unsurprisingly, was unanimously reelected as General Secretary of the Worker's Party. He promoted his sister to full party director after years as a deputy. But Kim's daughter, she just appeared once again at this parade, wearing that matching black leather jacket, a parade that featured 14,000 troops. But interestingly, no weapons. So, the world keeps guessing.

COOPER: All right, Will Ripley, thanks very much.

Coming up for my streaming show, "All There Is" live tonight at 9:15 Eastern, you'll hear from a grief counselor who learned becoming an expert on loss could not save her from the pain of her own parents dying, and the grief that followed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN KENT, GRIEF COUNSELOR: Grief is messy, it is awkward. It makes people uncomfortable. We don't know what to say. Other people don't know what to say, and I think just being as compassionate and kind and giving ourselves as much grace as possible, I think that goes a long way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:26]

COOPER: Welcome back, 15 minutes from now, I hope you join me for "All There Is" live. It's my new companion streaming show to my podcast about grief and loss, and it starts at 9:15 Eastern time online at cnn.com/all-there-is, which is our grief community page.

One of my guests tonight is a grief counselor named Erin Kent, who's helped people for more than a decade with their losses. But now after the recent deaths of her mom, with whom she had a complicated relationship, she's facing her own grief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: You've learned a lot in grief talking to other people for 13 years or so is there something you've learned in grief you feel that would be helpful for others?

KENT: More than anything else? Being kind to myself when it comes to the grief, I encourage other people to be kind and compassionate to themselves when it comes to grief. And grief is hard enough all on its own without us adding on judging ourselves for how were going through it.

I truly believe that's just the nature of grief. Grief is messy it is awkward. It makes people uncomfortable. We don't know what to say, other people don't know what to say, and I think just being as compassionate and kind and giving ourselves as much grace as possible I think that goes a long way.

COOPER: Well, I've been trying to sort of do also is sort of be kind to like the little kid that I was when my dad died and the choices I made and the things I did to respond to that. And I think it's important to not only be kind to yourself as you are now but to the person that you were a long time ago when you were, you know, dealing with your, in your case, dealing with your mom.

My mom's favorite saying was be kind because everybody you meet is fighting a great battle. And I think there's great truth in that.

KENT: Absolutely, and I absolutely agree with that being kind to that young version of us. And that's incredibly powerful to think about. And maybe especially if we know there were things that were so hurtful, that were so difficult losses at that time that made us so raw and if there wasn't anyone that really kind of protected us back then, kind of being the one who's able to say, I will protect you now, and I can be kind to you now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: My full interview with Erin and more is on in 15 minutes "All There Is" live, watch it only on cnn.com/all-there-is. I hope you join me for that.

That's it for us. The news continues.

"The Source" with Kaitlan Collins starts now.

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