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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
French And Spanish Passengers Test Positive For Hantavirus; Passengers from Virus-Hit Ship Being Quarantined, Monitored; Trump Blasts Iran's Latest Offer As A "Stupid Proposal;" Putin Hints He Might End Russia's War In Ukraine; Trump: Ceasefire On "Massive Life Support"; Iran Rejects Trump Criticism, Says Counteroffer Is "Generous"; As Attacks On Europe's Jewish Communities Escalate, Iran May Be Recruiting Operatives Online; Govt. Records: Trump's Reflecting Pool Paint Job To Cost $13.1 Million; Astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson Discusses New Book On Alien Encounters. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 11, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But as to what happens next, when you ask them that question, they stress that is for Venezuelans to decide, though they also emphasize they need the rest of the world to keep on watching --Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thank you so much, David Culver. I mean, obviously, incredible reporting there. There's even more, though. Don't miss an extended version of David's report from Caracas, which is releasing tomorrow on our app. or you can find it on cnn.com. Thanks so much for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:32]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom.
Topping our CNN Global Coverage tonight, two new confirmed cases of hantavirus and more expected but no indication top-health officials say that this outbreak, which has already taken three lives, would turn catastrophic. Right now, 17 Americans and one British dual national from the cruise ship M/V Hondius, are being monitored in a pair of U.S. facilities. They landed this morning in Nebraska, were taken to the University of Nebraska Medical Center, which you may remember from the early days of COVID.
One who tested positive is in a biocontainment facility there, 15 including a man who took a selfie of his surroundings. You see that there are in a quarantine unit. Two others, including at least one showing symptoms, were transferred to a biocontainment unit at Emory University in Atlanta for what's being described as further assessment and care.
Now, in addition to those 18, nine others, most of whom got off the ship late last month, are also being monitored in six states for signs of infection. Back on Tenerife, all passengers are now off the vessel. This is the final group disembarking today in bioprotective gear for themselves as well as their belongings. They were taken to the Netherlands. The ship is also heading there with 25 crew members and two medical professionals aboard.
As we mentioned, there are two new cases one in France, one in Spain and the World Health Organization's director-general expects they will not be the last.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How worried are you about the next steps?
TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL OF THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: As you know, the incubation for hantavirus or Andes virus ranges six to eight weeks. So, we expect more cases to come actually. But I hope they will be as small as possible. We already have one confirmed the -- you know, the passenger from France and I expect actually more because of the long incubation period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well with that in mind, some public health experts are questioning the current plan officials today outlined for sending some or most of the 18 in this country to complete their monitoring period at home or other medical centers.
Now, this includes Dr. Ashish Jha, who served as White House COVID czar during the Biden administration. Quoting from his social media post today, "There is growing evidence from the ship that you probably don't need prolonged close contact to spread the virus. And the implications here are pretty clear. If we are serious about ending this outbreak, all the passengers should undergo a full quarantine away from others."
Now, late today, the Nebraska's Biocontainment Unit Director, Dr. Angela Hewlett, said she is encouraging just that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANGELA HEWLETT NEBRASKA'S BIOCONTAINMENT UNIT DIRECTOR: We are certainly offering that as an option, and I would encourage that for several reasons. The main one being is that we have the capability of caring for patients, you know, close by, right across the street and providing that spectrum of care should the individual become ill. That is not going to be the case necessarily should they go back to their home jurisdictions where, you know, they may not have a hospital close by that can provide that type of care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The President also weighed in today, drawing a contrast without using the word between how this virus behaves and COVID.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: All I can do is everything that a President can do, which is actually somewhat limited. But it seems like it is not easy to spread. In fact, it's in certain ways very hard to spread. It's been -- we've lived with it for years, many years. And we think were in very good shape. We are very careful, and Nebraska has done a fantastic job. They have a place there that those doctors are unbelievable. The job they've done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: HHS Secretary Kennedy, who was with the President there, added, were not worried, saying the U.S. has the virus "under control."
As all of this plays out. A reminder the CDC still does not have a Senate confirmed Director and the Surgeon-General position remains vacant as well.
Starting off our coverage tonight, CNN national correspondent Dianne Gallagher, who's outside the university of Nebraska medical center, where 16 passengers from the cruise ship are now being monitored.
So, what are officials saying about the status of the passengers who arrived in that quarantine unit?
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Anderson, of the 16 passengers who are still here in Nebraska, they all remain asymptomatic. Now, 15 of them are actually in the basement of the building behind me here at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in the National Quarantine Unit. And that's that sort of hotel-like room that you may have seen already in that social media post or in some of the video from before, where they've got a bed, exercise equipment, they're able to facetime with their family members, but they cannot have visitors at this time.
Currently, they are undergoing assessments. They are being interviewed, if you will, to determine exactly if they've had close contact or any contact with somebody who is symptomatic or has tested positive in the past, and then they're also having health monitoring to see if they have a fever or any other symptoms.
[20:05:40]
Now, again, at this point, they are all asymptomatic. We are told there is that one passenger who did have a positive test. He also is asymptomatic.
We're told by Spanish health officials that he actually took two tests before they came to the United States, because he had had contact with one of the deceased passengers, and that the first test, well, that showed up, they thought, not conclusive. But U.S. officials thought that it was a weak positive. A second test came up negative. But U.S. officials said out of an abundance of caution, he would be regarded as positive and transported in a bio containment protocol.
He remains in a biocontainment unit here in Nebraska, but again, does not show symptoms, Anderson. Now, there is one passenger who did have symptoms, and that person, along with their travel partner, was taken to Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, where they are currently being assessed in a biocontainment unit there. Their travel partner right now is asymptomatic, we are told.
COOPER: Dianne Gallagher, thanks very much. Joining me is Dr. Michael Wadman. He's the Medical Director of the National Quarantine Unit at University of Nebraska Medical Center, where the 16 passengers from the cruise ship are being monitored. Also, Dr. Carlos Del Rio, Chair of The Department of Medicine at Emory University school of medicine and professor of infectious diseases. Two passengers are currently at Emory University's hospital, Serious Communicable Diseases Unit. And joining me, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who's an associate professor of neurosurgery at Emory University Hospital. Dr. Wadman, how are the passengers at your facility? How are they doing right now and how are they being monitored?
DR. MICHAEL WADMAN, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, NATIONAL QUARANTINE UNIT AT UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA MEDICAL CENTER: The passengers are doing well. They arrived early in the morning. Of course, were very tired from a long trip. They were transferred smoothly into the quarantine unit and were given some food, a quick intake just to make sure we were meeting their immediate needs and then we allowed them to rest most of the morning. We are now getting set up to do some risk assessments with our CDC colleagues, and those are ongoing now.
COOPER: Dr. Del Rio, we mentioned that a couple was sent to your facility in Atlanta, including one person who was symptomatic. When did that person develop the symptoms and how are they doing?
DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Thank you, Anderson. This morning, the Emory Serious Communicable Disease Unit received two passengers from the M/V Hondius. One patient, one person was symptomatic and is receiving care at Emory Biocontainment Unit. One is asymptomatic and is being closely watched and we're monitoring that individual and evaluating the individual.
Our team is very pleased to be taken care of with patients and being part of this mission. We have been collaborating with local, state and federal agencies to do this work and the team has really been fantastic. As you probably remember, Emory has a Biocontainment Unit that is part of the regional emerging special pathogen unit, together with the University of Nebraska and other units across the country. And these are really specialized unit's capable of taking care of these patients with high consequence infectious diseases.
So, it's really important that these units are funded by the federal government and continue to be funded, because exactly in situations like this one, when we need this kind of units.
COOPER: Sanjay, what do we know about how the virus transmits? I keep hearing that it's most likely to transmit via close contact. Exactly what does that mean?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is this is an interesting point, Anderson. So close contact, sort of strictly defined by the World Health Organization basically says for 15 minutes within about two meters, if you have that sort of contact, that would be considered a close contact. But I want to show you something because a lot of people point to a study that was done back in 2018, which was a super spreader event.
You had a guy who walked into a birthday party. Again, this is back in 2018. He was there at the birthday party for about 90 minutes. I don't know if you can tell looking at that screen, if we can make it bigger, but basically, he's in the middle of the room there and he spreads this to five people. Four of the people are within four feet of him. But there's another guy that's basically across the room. He's more than 2.5 meters away. And they only sort of pass each other once when one is going to the restroom and one is coming from the restroom. And that person got it as well.
So, that would not have met the strict sort of definition of a close contact. And I think that's what's, you know, a lot of people are reacting to when they look at how does this virus behave in the real world? Just walk by somebody who's sick, who clearly is transmitting the virus and be able to get it that way. I think that's what a lot of people are paying attention to in terms of determining who should be quarantined or not.
[20:10:28]
COOPER: And Sanjay, I know you have some questions for the doctors.
GUPTA: Yes, so, maybe, I mean, I could just maybe pick up there, Dr. Wadman, I don't know. When you when you look at a study like this, I'm just curious, what do you think? What does this mean potentially in terms of how the virus is spreading. Does this make it more likely an inhalational exposure or airborne or what do you think?
WADMAN: Well, this virus is one that's very familiar to us. But, you know, there's always a possibility that there can be, you know, differences in the way that the virus is spread. We need to really know what the contacts were for these for these persons in our unit to make a better assessment of that.
We definitely are taking full precautions. We have protocols in place and procedures that are all volunteer personnel are drilled in regularly. And I think it really puts us in a good position to prevent spread and to provide care safely for those quarantined patients.
GUPTA: Yes, and I mean, I guess just following up on that Dr. Del Rio -- Carlos, I mean, do you think everyone should just get tested in this case? Would that be able to at least give people a higher degree of comfort?
DEL RIO: Thanks, Sanjay, I mean, I don't know what you mean by everyone. Everyone who was on the on the ship, everybody who is in the general population. I certainly wouldn't start testing everybody. And again, you know, the test is complicated. We don't really have an approved test. So, you can do a PCR test and we know the PCR test becomes positive about 24 hours before the onset of symptoms.
But again, this is not a test that has been approved. So, part of this outbreak is actually giving us the opportunity to really understand this virus dynamics, this virus transmission. There's a lot of us a lot to learn from this outbreak. And I think the possibilities of learning more from this outbreak are really very important. So, will I test everybody?
No, not necessarily. I think we need to be careful not to overhype the anxiety. And if the patients are asymptomatic, we should just continue to watch them.
COOPER: So, Sanjay, let me just ask you, are everyone on that, who was on that boat has not been tested?
SANJAY: No, I guess not. I mean, that's sort of the issue here is and I and I guess as Dr. Del Rio is sort of saying, I mean, there's pluses and minuses to doing this. I don't know that necessarily increases anxiety, Carlos. But I mean, I mean, I think it would give people a better sense, as well as determining what the denominator is here, right? I mean, there may be a lot of people who have the virus but are not sick. They're totally asymptomatic.
DEL RIO: I agree with you and that's part of what we need to find out. The issue is, you know, the testing really is not a well-developed test. We have good serological tests. We have some PCR testing. I think I agree with you. I think I would test individuals, but it's not necessarily for diagnosis. It's more for understanding more about this virus.
Again, there's a lot to be learned from this outbreak and the possibility of learning more, I think is something we should not miss because we really don't know a lot of things about this outbreak. We know what you mentioned that superspreader event, but I can tell you, talking to my colleagues in Chile and Argentina, they say, look, we see a hundred-plus patients with Andes hantavirus per year. There's very little human-to-human transmission. So, we really need to understand more about what happened in this situation.
A ship is obviously a very close environment. The transmission there can be very different than in the general population.
COOPER: Dr. Wadman, the 16 passengers who are in your facility, will they stay for the entire 42-day quarantine period to be monitored? How does that how does that work? Are they able to, do they have to can they leave? Is it up to them?
WADMAN: Well, at this point they're in a 72-hour period where we're doing an assessment. And once we have the risk assessment done, which the CDC personnel are now performing, we'll have a better idea of risk and a better idea of what that looks like going forward. At this time without the risk assessment being completed, it would be difficult to say what that period should be.
COOPER: Dr. Wadman appreciate it, Dr. Del Rio, Dr. Gupta, thanks very much.
Coming up next, Iran and the President's assessment that the ceasefire is just a one percent chance of survival. His former National Security adviser, General H.R. McMaster, joins us.
And later, in the wake of a string of antisemitic attacks in Europe, CNN investigates possible links to Iran. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:11]
COOPER: Just a day after calling Iran's latest offer to end the war, "totally unacceptable," the President today offered little hope for even maintaining the ceasefire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: For the time being, the ceasefire remains in place?
TRUMP: It's unbelievably weak, I would say. I would call it the weakest right now; after reading a piece of garbage they sent us, I didn't even finish reading it. I said, I'm not going to waste my time reading it. I would say it's one of the weakest right now. It's on life support.
I would say the ceasefire is on massive life support where the doctor walks in and says, sir, your loved one has approximately a one percent chance of living.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, speaking separately to CBS News about Iran's offer, the President said, "It was just a bad proposal, a stupid proposal actually done by people that have no clue as to the danger they're in. Very stupid proposal, badly written, badly delivered."
The speaker of Iran's Parliament, as you might imagine, had a different take on social media, quoting him now, "There is no alternative but to accept the rights of the Iranian people as laid out in 14-point proposal. The longer they drag their feet, the more American taxpayers will pay for it."
[20:20:22]
The price of gas has remained steady the last couple of days, at around $4.52 a gallon, according to AAA, the President is said to be weighing a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax, which is about $0.18 a gallon. To do that, though, Congress would need to act.
As for what the administration may do next, the President had this to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A lot of people said, well, does he have a plan? Yes, of course I do, I have best plan ever. I mean, Iran has been defeated militarily, totally. They have a little left. They probably built up during this period of time. We'll knock that out in about a day. But I have a plan. You know, it is a very simple plan. I don't know why you don't say it like it is. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, that, of course, is a goal and certainly a worthwhile. While a plan is how you get there.
Joining us now is retired Army Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster, who served as National Security Adviser during the first Trump administration. General, good to have you on.
You heard the President say the ceasefire is on life support. What do you expect to happen? Do you expect full scale military action to resume?
LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET), FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Yes, I do, Anderson. And hey, this shouldn't be a surprise to anybody, I don't think.
I mean, the Iranian regime remains intransigent. Look at how many off ramps they drove past under Ayatollah Khamenei, now under his son. And so, I think what we're up against is the intransigence of a regime that retains this permanent hostility, you know, to the Great Satan, you know, the United States, you know, the little Satan, Israel and its Arab neighbors. And I think what this demonstrates is there can't be peace in the region or security, sadly, for the for the Iranian people, until there's a fundamental change in the nature of this regime -- Anderson.
COOPER: Is the U.S. capable of, I mean, given the, I mean, there's the lack of cooperation or involvement of European allies, there's certainly regional partners. Can the U.S. actually change this regime?
MCMASTER: Well, I don't know if we can change it. The Iranian people can change it. But what we can do is continue to go after their capability to project power outside of its borders. And this is, of course, having to do with their missile-drone strike complex. This is their ability to affect the Strait of Hormuz and the Persian Gulf.
And yes, I believe that is in our capability. Does it does it come without cost or risk? Heck no. But, you know, I still think, Anderson, the cost and risk of inaction in this latest phase of a 47-year-war would have far exceeded the cost and risks of this ongoing operation, because, Anderson, what they were doing, it's clear they were building this massive arsenal of missiles and drones. Really a conventional shield behind which they could develop a nuclear weapon.
And so, I think, you know, the stakes are high. But I'll tell you, there's also been, Anderson, a big disparity, I think, between, you know, the massive damage that has been done to this regime, it's military capabilities and the portrayal of Iran having some kind of an advantage.
I mean, I think Iran really is in a desperate situation. You see this with Ghalibaf's message, right? Ghalibaf thinks that we just don't have the backbone, you know, to see this thing through. You know, they've been conditioned to believe this regime has in a way that they just detest, you know, the United States, that we are weak, we're decadent, we're divided and our Achille's heel is really our national will.
COOPER: I've been rereading "Dispatches" by Michael Hare about the Vietnam War. And, you know, there was a lot of talk coming from the military during the Vietnam war about body counts, about, you know, land held and yet the North Vietnamese kept going, even though, you know, they were being defeated on the battlefield, even though, you know, the offensive ended up being extremely damaging for them and ultimately they, they were, you know, the U.S. left and Saigon fell.
Does Iran -- I mean, I agree with you that there's been tremendous damage, but and they don't have a military advantage. But do they have the advantage of not caring about their own people and therefore being willing to sustain whatever hardships because the Revolutionary Guard Corps are getting fed and they're getting paid?
MCMASTER: Yes, I think the advantage that they had in, Anderson was that for over four decades, we never acted like we knew what the return address was for all the damage, harm, loss of life that they inflicted on United States' citizens.
You know, if we are going back to the Beirut Bombings in 1983. Heck, go back to the hostage taking in 1979, the massive amounts of kidnappings and murders, I think over 120 murders in Europe. You know, for example, the Transnational Terrorist Network, the bombing of a Jewish community center in Argentina, you know, the blowing up of a Panamanian airline.
[20:25:20]
COOPER: I get all that. The question is, can you can the U.S. actually change the regime? I know you said the Iranian people can, but they're not able to right now, and they haven't been able to, you know, tens of thousands of them have been killed trying.
MCMASTER: Right, absolutely and we have to remember that, you know, this is a regime that killed 40,000 people in January. But what I think is encouraging is the degree to which that leadership has been weakened, how they're fragmented. We know that, you know, the head of the IRGC and Ghalibaf, they're they have mixed messages. I think there are fissures within the regime, Anderson. We don't know how this is going to turn out. But also, a lot of these strikes have been directed at the repressive arms of the regime, the Basij, you know, these kind of brownshirts as well as the IRGC.
And so, I think that because of the intransigence of the regime and because President Trump won't accept an agreement, that's unacceptable. I think the chances are quite high there will be a continuation of this campaign. There will probably be an effort to forcibly open the Strait of Hormuz, which is in our capabilities to do. And I think the regime is making another huge mistake, they're driving past another off ramp -- Anderson.
COOPER: General McMaster, I really appreciate your perspective. Thank you so much.
MCMASTER: Great to be with you.
COOPER: Coming up next, the recent wave of antisemitic attacks in Europe. What a CNN investigation reveals about a previously unheard-of group that the security experts we spoke to believe is a front for Iran.
Also, a new statement from Vladimir Putin and the question it raises, is he now looking for a way out of his war on Ukraine?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:04]
COOPER: Russian leader Vladimir Putin has made a remarkable statement about the war in Ukraine as he's facing growing pressure over the conflict. The details now from CNN's Nick Paton Walsh.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A peculiar parade for a peculiar admission.
PRES. VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN (through translation): I think that the matter is coming to an end, but it is a serious matter.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): President Putin has almost never talked about the end of his war in Ukraine, unless in the context of an unlikely total victory. But after a massively and embarrassingly reduced Victory Day parade on Red Square, with absolutely none of the hardware that in past years marked Russia's display of military might, he went a little further, suggesting an old German friend, a former chancellor, might be a mediator for direct talks with Europe.
PUTIN (through translation): Personally, I would prefer the former chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany, Mr. Gerhard Schroder.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): And seven calling the man he loathes and has refused to meet for talks unless it's here, Mr. Zelenskyy.
PUTIN (through translation): I simply heard once again that the Ukrainian side, Mr. Zelenskyy, is ready to hold a personal meeting.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): Why the change of tone, or even heart? Putin has long faked it when it comes to peace talks. Perhaps this was aimed at an audience of one, Trump, who had declared the ceasefire Putin wanted for his parade.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd like to see a big extension, OK?
PATON WALSH (voice-over): Protecting this show from Ukrainian aerial attack. Zelenskyy seized the moment to issue a decree trolling Putin that he, quote, "authorized" the Kremlin's parade by ordering his forces to pause attacks on central Moscow for its duration.
The ceasefire itself was, as in previous iterations, barely observed outside of the parade.
PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translation): There was no silence on the front line today. There were hostilities. We have documented all of this. We can also see that Russia has no intention of ending this war. And we are preparing for new attacks, unfortunately. But there must be peace.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): Ukraine may lack manpower, but now has robots. Thousands of them. Zelenskyy announcing in April the first robot capture of a Russian position. And they offered their anti-drone technology to Arab Gulf nations reeling under Iranian attacks.
Even if it is, like here, a drone shooting a Russian drone with a shotgun strapped to it. Putin, instead, has mounting problems. Airstrikes leaving Moscow feeling vulnerable, internet blackouts to stifle dissent, economic warning lights blinking red.
And so comments about an end may not just be designed to placate Trump, but also his own elite, that an unpopular and savagely costly war may have an end in sight. Just don't expect him to say how yet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PATON WALSH (on-camera): Anderson, on the train into Kyiv this time, it does, for once, feel different, like Ukraine is certainly not losing. And the emphasis is on Russia's struggles and Ukraine's extraordinary leaps forwards with technology to solve its own issues.
Ultimately, I think, a sense of their own independence and autonomy here emerging after a horrific year with the Trump White House. Anderson?
COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh, thanks so much.
Up next, back to Iran. We'll take -- talk to what might -- or talk about what might be the next -- coming up next after the President said the ceasefire is on massive life support.
Plus, is Iran recruiting operatives online to carry out attacks on Jewish communities in Europe? CNN went undercover to investigate one online group.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT With me, they get straight into it. What are my capabilities? What action can you take against Zionist individuals or assets? Do you have access to specific individuals or information?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:39:05]
COOPER: Returning to Iran, the ceasefire, which the President today compared to a critically ill patient and the question of who now holds the strategic advantage. Is it the global naval superpower or regional power with geography in its favor and a high threshold for pain as long as it can make the rest of the world hurt too?
Joining us now, CNN Senior Military Analyst, Retired U.S. Navy Admiral James Stavridis. The admiral is a former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and a partner at the Carlyle Group, a global investment firm. And he has a new book out coming out, that's it there, "2084: A Novel of Future War," which hits bookshelves tomorrow.
I want to ask you about the book in a moment. What do you make of what the President is now saying about where we stand?
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I think he's worried and he should be. And you had my good friend H.R. McMaster on earlier. I think the Iranians have a lot of capacity to absorb pain. They're like the Russians --
COOPER: Even if they've been degraded, which no doubt they're --
STAVRIDIS: Correct.
COOPER: -- degraded.
STAVRIDIS: Correct. And they're degraded, but they still have capacity. And think "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich," the Russian, Solzhenitsyn book.
[20:40:11]
Like Russians, Iranians can take a lot of pain. And I think the President needs to factor that into his thinking.
COOPER: It's not that they are superhuman, it's that the regime does not care about their people.
STAVRIDIS: Exactly.
COOPER: So the pain their people feel does not filter up to those who have access to money and --
STAVRIDIS: Correct. Think of two clocks ticking. The clock over President Trump, justifiably and correctly, are the midterms, a deeply unpopular war, gas prices. He has to respond to that. The clock over the Iranians may be moving a little slower because, your point, they don't care about their people.
COOPER: And they're very aware of what the administration's clock is.
STAVRIDIS: Oh, my gosh. Do you think possibly they're reading Politico every day? Yes, they definitely are. They know this is coming. And they will use that to their advantage.
COOPER: So, I mean, if the President continues the blockade, what are the military options?
STAVRIDIS: I think he has three options. One is kind of a throwaway, but he could simply walk away. He could say, we've degraded their military. I'm satisfied. We'll monitor the nuclear material. I'm walking away from this.
I don't think he'll do that. Bad option. Number two, he can go back to massive strikes. That's a bad option because it's expensive. It's unclear how fast that will actually work. And it is, again, accelerating a deeply unpopular war.
So door number three, where he's probably going to land, is continue the blockade, try to put economic pressure on the Iranians. But the problem with that is what we've been discussing. They can take a lot of pain. Their clock is moving slower than our clock is.
COOPER: I want to ask you about the new book, "2084: A Novel of Future War." It's the third of a series. You had "2034," "2054." This is looking at -- it's interesting. There's -- it's war and how climate change might actually be used as a weapon in war.
STAVRIDIS: It's looking at what war might be in 2084. And certainly the planet is changing, but also alliances are more fragile. In 2084, we hypothesize U.S. and China are not at war. They're actually aligned.
And we're looking at the rise of everything we're seeing in this war in the Middle East, drones, artificial intelligence, special forces, hypersonics, lasers, all that we're seeing the most basic, nascent version of that. By 2084, when this book unfolds, they'll be at the center of war.
COOPER: It is incredible how much we have seen war just shift in -- I mean, the war in Ukraine. It's incredible.
STAVRIDIS: It is. It's the war in Ukraine is kind of the appetizer, and now we're in the main course here in Iran. When you put all of that together, enormous changes in our overall security picture. We need to understand that and put focus on it.
COOPER: What an interesting idea to game this out to 2084. Again, the book, "2084: A Novel of Future War." Admiral, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Now a CNN investigation into a string of anti-Semitic violence across Europe and concerns the attacks could be linked to the Iranian regime. More now from CNN's Jomana Karadsheh.
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KARADSHEH (voice-over): Seventeen claims of attacks targeting mostly Jewish sites in seven weeks. We've been investigating Iran's possible links to these incidents, an investigation that has led us to a stunning discovery of something so sinister that, as we'll show you, is happening right in the open.
KARADSHEH: They're asking me if I have access to Zionist individuals or assets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a matter of time that one of our communities was going to come under attack.
KARADSHEH: We saw him taken away by an ambulance.
KARADSHEH (voice-over): Days after the war in Iran began, firebomb and arson attacks hit buildings, including synagogues, Jewish centers and schools in Europe. A previously unheard of group calling itself Harakat Ashab al-Yamin al-Islamia, the Islamic movement of the Companions of the Righteous, claimed the attacks in not-so- sophisticated videos and statements.
We found that the claims seem to first appear on these telegram channels that are associated with Iranian-backed Iraqi groups.
A source close to Kata'ib Hezbollah, the most powerful of Iraqi Shia paramilitary groups that works closely with the IRGC, confirmed to us its links to Ashab al-Yamin and told us some of its members are Iraqi. Security experts believe the group is just a front for the IRGC.
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British counterterrorism police are investigating Iran's potential links to the London attacks and whether the regime may be hiring criminal proxies to carry them out, possibly recruiting people online.
KARADSHEH: When you think of online recruitment by foreign intelligence services, you might assume that's something happening in the deep dark corners of the internet. But take a look at what we found.
KARADSHEH (voice-over): This telegram channel, in English and Hebrew, called VIP Employment, says it's recruiting, quote, "high-paid agents." It claims for Iranian intelligence. If you're ready to take the next step, it says, hit the start button.
Undercover, producer Flo and I started two separate chats, exchanging direct messages over several days with these accounts.
FLORENCE DAVEY-ATTLEE, CNN FIELD PRODUCER: So my conversation begins with someone calling themselves Sina. They quickly asked me lots of questions about myself, trying to get to know me. And then they assigned me a task. Two posters, anti-Trump, anti-war posters.
They asked me to film myself putting them up on the streets of London and offer me $2 per poster paid in crypto. And later on in the conversation, they seem to coach me on how to avoid CCTV cameras. "Do it in a place where there are no surveillance cameras," they say.
At one point I question, "How can I confirm your Islamic Republic intelligence, as you say you are?" And they say, "The work I assigned you is against the policies of the filthy Zionist regime in America."
KARADSHEH: With me, they get straight into it. What are my capabilities? What action can you take against Zionist individuals or assets? Do you have access to specific individuals or information, they ask.
I ask what they mean by access to specific individuals or information. "People who work in security and military agencies, such as the Shin Bet, the army and the Mossad," they say. And I ask them if they're only recruiting people in Israel. They said, "No. We can hire anyone who can harm Israeli interests or individuals."
KARADSHEH (voice-over): And with those words, we decided to end the conversation there. But others appear to have taken the bait.
We found VIP employment, a channel with the same name, is alleged to have been used to recruit Israelis to spy for Iran. Referenced in this indictment and other official documents. The Israeli men were given initiation tasks very similar to the one we were given by the Telegram account.
From there, prosecutors say the men were tasked with filming government and military sites in exchange for money. One of them, an IDF reservist, was even offered more than $30,000 to assassinate his commander.
We can't confirm any links between VIP employment and the recent anti- Semitic attacks in Europe. But the one thing they seem to have in common is Iran.
Here in the U.K., the wave of attacks has left the small Jewish community feeling more vulnerable than ever. One of the group's targets in London, the Kenton United Synagogue, attacked, they claim, for being, quote, "a center of Zionist influence." And its rabbi, a key instrument of Zionism.
RABBI YEHUDA BLACK, KENTON UNITED SYNAGOGUE, LONDON: Just take you in here.
KARADSHEH: Oh, the smell.
BLACK: Yes, it's quite, it's quite pungent, isn't it? And you can actually --
KARADSHEH: Still smells of fire days after.
BLACK: Ten days after, and it's still quite, quite pungent, isn't it? They came from the outside. They smashed its window in, and they threw a firebomb in here. You can see the damage that's been caused.
KARADSHEH: Wow. I mean, how did you feel when you walked in and you saw this?
BLACK: I was really upset, obviously. I mean, it's only a medical room. I mean, we can replace it. We can redecorate it and everything else. But what could have transpired, that is really tough, you know.
KARADSHEH (voice-over): With anti-Semitism at record highs worldwide, Rabbi Black says the attacks were a shock, but not a surprise.
BLACK: My biggest concern is that it has to stop. People have to realize that. What's happening elsewhere is happening elsewhere, but what's happening over here is plain anti-Semitism.
KARADSHEH: A 17-year-old British national pleaded guilty to arson without endangering life. In a written statement, he apologized. He said he has nothing against the Jewish people and said that he didn't know that this was a synagogue.
KARADSHEH (voice-over): Many of the suspects here and elsewhere in Europe are teenagers. Authorities are warning anyone considering getting involved in these attacks for quick cash, they will be, quote, "used once and thrown away." But it seems these attacks may have already opened the floodgates, emboldening others to follow.
On our way back from the synagogue, we noticed a heavy police presence.
KARADSHEH: As we were making our way, we heard that people had been stabbed here. And as we approached the police lines, we could see at the time the suspect was still on the ground surrounded by the police.
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Two visibly Jewish men were stabbed. From the shadows, Ashab al-Yamin claimed the attack without providing evidence of links to the suspect, who, according to police, has a history of mental illness and serious violence.
Claim, confuse, intimidate and inspire, that's all part of their tactics, leaving so many in this community bracing for even darker days ahead.
Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, London.
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COOPER: The Iranian embassy in London denied having any link with or involvement in the London attacks, saying in a statement, quote, "Such baseless accusations against the Islamic Republic of Iran lack credible evidence and appear to serve narrow political agendas and to mislead public opinion and distract from the real root causes of terrorism and violent extremism."
Coming up, as new, never-before-seen videos come to light from the Pentagon's UFO files, we talk to astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, who gives his take on what's been released so far.
And how much is President Trump's decision to have the reflecting pool on the National Mall painted blue actually going to cost taxpayers? Apparently a lot more than he says it will.
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COOPER: $13.1 million, that is how much President Trump's decision to have the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool painted blue is going to cost taxpayers, according to updated government records tonight. The amount is several times higher than the President has previously suggested it would take to improve the look and structural integrity of the pool, seen here being driven on last week by his motorcade. At one point, the President said it would cost $1.8 million, then tonight he told guests in the Rose Garden it would cost $3 million. The Interior Department said the cost of the no-bid contract, which was awarded to a Virginia company the President says previously worked on one of his swimming pools, is because of the deadline to get it done by July 4th. A non-profit preservation group today asked a federal court to block the project.
Now to the strange skies, the star-shaped movement was caught on video by the U.S. military in 2013, no location provided. It was released in the first batch of the Pentagon's so-called UFO files, more than 160 items. Here's another one, what's called an unidentified anomalous phenomena shaped like sort of a football, reported by U.S. Indo- Pacific Command in 2024. The government is giving no conclusions on anything in the files, more are expected.
Joining me tonight, Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. His new book is very topical, "Take Me to Your Leader: Perspectives on Your First Alien Encounter." And it's going to be available tomorrow.
I mean, given the images we are now seeing, do you need to add on a new chapter? What do you think in the images (ph)?
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: No, the images you're seeing are unexplained phenomena. That's different from an alien that would walk up to you and ask to see your leader. That seem different.
COOPER: Do any of the images impress you?
TYSON: They all do. Oh, my gosh. But, you know, as is known even by UFO enthusiasts, typically more than half, sometimes as many as 90 percent of all unexplained phenomena by some people can be explained by other people who know more about what's happening in the night sky or weather patterns or lightning or whatever. So cloud patterns especially.
COOPER: And someone like I've started to now fully believe we've been visited. How do you explain the, I mean, this image right here of that thing?
TYSON: I love it. Oh, my gosh.
COOPER: And the football looking thing that's like hurtling around and --
TYSON: Yes, no, you know, the universe brims with mysteries. I'm not --
COOPER: The universe brims with mysteries.
TYSON: Yes.
COOPER: That's true. I like that. That's what I love about the universe.
TYSON: By the way, you can get that spiky pattern in the optics of a camera and the iris can do that. But regardless -- by the way, that reminds me a little bit of Glenda coming in to Oz, you know, on her little -- just sort of floats in.
COOPER: You think that's MGM's or (INAUDIBLE) 1934 (ph) or something?
TYSON: So I'm saying not all of it is readily explainable and maybe it is aliens. All I'm saying is until someone brings out an alien from the locked room shed in the back, we will continually have to ask each other, do you believe in aliens? Because implicit in that is, do you believe the testimonies?
And I don't have a problem believing the testimonies. But at this point, producing an alien might even be anticlimactic because we've heard it all. We said, yes, we got aliens in the back. They -- we've been harmed by aliens. We got their craft saucer.
We've got the reverse engineered technologies. I've heard all of that. I value -- in this testimony, but there's a -- I'm going to sit back in my chair and wait for the alien at this point.
COOPER: I just kind of -- there's not -- this off topic, but how can the universe be forever expanded? Like how would -- when does it stop?
TYSON: So --
COOPER: How is this possible?
TYSON: -- let me start by saying the universe is under no obligation to make sense to you.
COOPER: But like, what -- how can it go on forever?
TYSON: Spot there.
COOPER: Like literally, I won't really mind.
TYSON: You don't know. It's a frontier of modern cosmology that --
COOPER: Cosmetology?
TYSON: That's exactly what I say.
COOPER: You are one of the great cosmetologists.
TYSON: So the universe has a horizon beyond which we cannot see.
COOPER: Right.
TYSON: Because objects are receding faster than the speed of light.
COOPER: How is it possible? Like, is there a brick wall?
TYSON: I'm getting there. I'm getting there. So beyond that, we don't know how big the actual universe is. It could be infinite. We don't know. It is a frontier.
COOPER: But what if it's not infinite, what is beyond it? Like, I don't -- it makes me want to vomit. Like, it makes me so --
TYSON: OK. OK.
COOPER: I don't understand it.
TYSON: This German poet Rainer Maria Rilke.
COOPER: Yes.
TYSON: In a book, "Letters to a Young Poet."
COOPER: Yes.
TYSON: And one of them is -- I'm going to mangle this quote, it's "Be at peace with all that stirs in your heart, and learn to love the questions themselves."
COOPER: Neil deGrasse Tyson, thank you.
TYSON: Anderson, always good to be with you.
COOPER: The new book, "Take Me to Your Leader: Perspectives on Your First Alien Encounter."
I still don't understand how the universe is endless. What does that even mean?
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
