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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Interview With Brian Driscoll; Former Acting FBI Chief On His Hiring Process: "Disgusted And Shocked"; Fired FBI Official Speaks Out For The First Time Amid Lawsuit Against FBI, Kash Patel, And DOJ; 9 U.S. States Now Monitoring For Hantavirus; American Passenger From Hantavirus-Hit Cruise Ship Joins 360. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 12, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In front of itself to reach very high speed, others suggested something simpler.
MIKE PLUNKETT, SENIOR NAVAL PLATFORMS ANALYST, JANES: Sounds like a limpet mine. It sounds like a shaped charge explosive that was placed against the hull by somebody or something.
WALSH (voice over): The Russian owners immediately called the sinking a targeted terrorist attack. But the secret of how this happened remains on the seafloor.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Cartagena, Spain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Incredible mystery and thanks so much for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[0:00:35.0]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom. Tonight, my exclusive interview with former acting FBI Director Brian Driscoll. He had a front row seat to what happened inside the FBI when President Trump took office last January. And long serving FBI agents and prosecutors at the Department of Justice began to get fired or forced into retirement.
He himself was fired a little more than six months after the inauguration after 21 years in public service, nearly 18 of them at the FBI. Fired in August 2025 by FBI Director Kash Patel, who appeared today before the Senate Appropriations Committee, where Democrat Chris Van Hollen did not even wait for the questioning to cast doubt on Patel's fitness to serve.
Here's some of the Senator's opening remarks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Is cannot imagine ever having to worry about former FBI Directors Wray or Mueller spending multiple weekends drinking heavily at the pool room in Las Vegas. Now I understand, you've denied these reports and you will have a
chance today here to challenge them. But the problem with your leadership is does not end there.
We're also witnessing a litany of other abuses political firings of trusted career agents whose only fault was following the facts and the law. That includes the firing of agents and staff from a special counterintelligence unit that monitored threats from Iran, weaponizing the FBI to seek political revenge on former FBI Director James Comey and others.
Using FBI investigative resources to go after journalists who write stories that you don't like. And just this morning, we learned more details about your firing of Brian Driscoll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Brian Driscoll is highly regarded by many at the FBI. In his long career, he investigated the mob in New York. He was a commander of the FBI's elite hostage rescue team, and he tracked down child predators. At the start of the second Trump administration, he was named acting director of the FBI. Well, now he is speaking out, along with two other former senior FBI officials is suing Director Patel, the FBI, the Justice Department and the Administration.
I sat down with him for this exclusive interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice over): Brian Driscoll's path to becoming an FBI director was not a typical one.
BRIAN DRISCOLL, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF FBI: Our cases would bring us all over the five boroughs.
COOPER (voice over): He began his FBI career here on the streets of New York, investigating the mafia in 2008.
DRISCOLL: It's a little bit of cat and mouse. You're out on the street. You're following them.
COOPER (voice over): He then earned himself a spot on the FBI's elite hostage rescue team. In 2013, they saved a five-year-old boy held captive in an underground bunker in Alabama.
DRISCOLL: That was my first operation on the hostage rescue team. We had a good plan. Best we could do with a hole in the ground. There were a lot of things that went our way that day.
COOPER (voice over): He worked all over and was awarded the FBI Shield of Bravery and a Medal of Valor for a covert operation with U.S. Military Special Forces in Syria.
DRISCOLL: It was a mission to apprehend Abu Sayyaf, who was indicted here in the U.S. and hold him accountable for his role in Kayla Mueller's hostage taking and murder. JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST It is now official CNN projects that Donald
Trump has been elected President.
COOPER (voice over): When Donald Trump was reelected, "Drizz," as his friends call him, was the commander of the hostage rescue team based in Quantico, Virginia.
DRISCOLL: I received a phone call about a week before the inauguration.
COOPER (voice over): The call came from a Emil Bove. He was one of Donald Trump's attorneys during his 2024 criminal trial in New York, and was about to become the acting U.S. Deputy Attorney General.
Bove told him he was being considered for an important role at FBI headquarters. He then got a call from Kash Patel, who had long been a vocal critic of the FBI.
KASH PATEL, U.S. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION DIRECTOR: What you need is sweeping personnel changes in the leadership structures of the agencies that we've been talking about, Steve, for what, ten years now?
COOPER (voice over): Patel had already been picked by President elect Trump to be his new FBI Director.
DRISCOLL: He asked if I'd be willing to come down to headquarters to serve. I reflected that, I serve at the pleasure of the director of the FBI.
COOPER (on camera): Patel told you that as long as you were not prolific on social media, didn't donate to the Democratic Party, didn't vote for Kamala Harris in the 2024 election. The vetting would not be an issue.
DRISCOLL: Yes, it's exactly. It's not funny, but that's exactly what he said.
COOPER (on camera): Did that surprise you?
DRISCOLL: Yes, it was shocking. I'm apolitical by nature, but by profession. You must be apolitical. It's a violation of the hatch act to express political leanings in a professional environment. They are very strict rules.
[20:05:12]
COOPER (voice over): The vetting call shocked Driscoll as well. It came from Paul Ingrassia, an attorney and conservative commentator working on the Trump transition team.
DRISCOLL: The first question was softball. And then it got worse. Who'd you vote for?
COOPER (on camera): Had you ever been asked that by anybody in a position of authority in the FBI? DRISCOLL: No, no. I explained to him, like. Listen, it's
inappropriate. You have my resume in front of you, right? And so, you know, I'm a current FBI agent. It's a violation for me to discuss my own personal feelings on politics. Hoping to avoid any further politically charged questions, which it didn't.
COOPER (on camera): What was the next question?
DRISCOLL: So, I might be out of order here, but when did you start supporting President Trump? And it didn't answer that one either. Then he asked me, do I agree that the agents who stormed Mar-a-Lago, his words, not mine, should be held accountable? I did answer that one with absolute no.
And then I explained to him they were doing their jobs pursuant to a predicated investigation and court order and that we don't choose what cases we work. Is that okay? Just tell me if you voted for a democrat in the last five elections. This conversation is over and conclude the phone call. I was just a disgusted and shocked.
COOPER (on camera): Why were you disgusted?
DRISCOLL: Because now, my fear that there was a political wave coming towards the FBI with vitriol directed at the FBI. It was palpable and there was a sense of shock that like, well, I'm really close to this thing.
COOPER (on camera): You talked to Bove after the vetting interview?
DRISCOLL: Yes, again, paraphrasing the conversation. I was like, this guy is asking me all these political questions. I don't like the way this feels. I don't want to be a part of this. If you're going to ask me to do political things. He's like, you failed the vetting interview, but relax. I flipped it. You're coming down on the 20th.
COOPER (voice over): Bove told him to report to FBI headquarters in Washington on inauguration day, and that's when he'd be named the acting deputy director of the FBI and his close friend, Rob Kissane, would become the acting director until Kash Patel was sworn in.
COOPER (on camera): What did you think?
DRISCOLL: I had a lot of questions. Why me? And what if I say no? And it was explained to me that if I did say no, there was a potential that a political appointee would just be parachuted in to take that with no understanding of the bureau.
COOPER (on camera): You didn't want somebody from outside the FBI being the number two person at the FBI?
DRISCOLL: No, no, I it's extremely damaging to have the operational leader, basically the COO of the FBI have no experience within the FBI.
HOST: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Chief Justice Roberts to administer the Presidential oath of office. DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I, Donald
John Trump, do solemnly swear.
COOPER (voice over): January 20th, inauguration day because of freezing temperatures. President Trump was sworn in inside the Capitol.
TRUMP: The scales of justice will be rebalanced. The vicious, violent and unfair weaponization of the Justice Department and our government will end.
COOPER (voice over): Driscoll arrived at FBI headquarters shortly after the swearing in. He joined Rob Kissane, who was supposed to be the new acting FBI director.
COOPER (on camera): You were supposed to be the number two at the FBI in the interim position. How'd you get to be the acting director of the FBI?
DRISCOLL: I can only assume it was a clerical error.
COOPER (on camera): A clerical error?
DRISCOLL: Yes. We report to FBI headquarters. The chief-of-staff came into the room. He dropped a pile of printed out paper, said, hold everything. Did you see this? This is the list that the White House just published of all of the interim heads of the government agencies. My name was on it, not Robert's as the interim director of the FBI. You can imagine how surprised I was.
COOPER (on camera): But you were told that Bove called the White House and essentially the White House didn't want to rectify it or didn't want to change it.
DRISCOLL: To my understanding, yes. It was a farcical might be the right word. What is happening? Now, we're switching chairs. The fact that I was going through it with somebody I consider a brother with Rob, it was like, okay, like we're going to protect the integrity of the bureau. We're going to lead the FBI the way we can.
COOPER (voice over): Driscoll, the unexpected acting FBI Director, quickly got to work every morning at the Department of Justice. He and his deputy, Rob Kissane, briefed top DOJ officials, including the acting Deputy Attorney General, Emil Bove, on investigations and threats.
[20:10:03]
DRISCOLL: First few days call it first week. It's going good, a little bit of a flow and then the asks started coming in from Emil Bove.
ABC NEWS HOST: Breaking news that were getting. So, the Justice Department is firing, "over a dozen officials..."
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER: ...who were involved in the criminal cases investigating President Trump. COOPER (voice over): It was January 27th and at the DOJ firings of
federal prosecutors who worked on cases against the President began.
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They say that these officials cannot be trusted to implement Trump's agenda.
COOPER (voice over): That same day, Driscoll says Bove told him he was receiving pressure from White House Deputy chief-of-staff Stephen Miller to see symmetrical action at the FBI, as had been happening at the DOJ.
COOPER (on camera): What did that mean to you, symmetrical action?
DRISCOLL: We were watching a lot of people get fired at DOJ.
COOPER (on camera): So Bove said to you that Stephen Miller wanted the same thing in the FBI?
DRISCOLL: Yes. Symmetrical action is the term that they were using.
COOPER (voice over): On January 28th. Driscoll says Bove gave him names of some of the most senior FBI officials. He wanted them fired.
DRISCOLL: Initially, he wanted to fire essentially, the top six. The executive assistant directors and a few field leaders. We were resistant to that. Let them get to retirement, please, and not potentially compromise their health benefits for their family, their pension. He articulated, I'll think about it.
COOPER (voice over): The following day according to Driscoll, Bove wanted a lot more. A list of FBI employees associated with investigations into the January 6th attacks at the Capitol. He says he also referenced a core case team of investigators, which Driscoll says did not actually exist.
DRISCOLL: Upwards of 6,000 agents, analysts, professional staff, FBI employees of all types were working investigations that they were told to work. We don't choose, and Rob and I were on that list as well, but it had nothing to do with us. It was everybody else.
COOPER (on camera): So Bove is wanting a list that would have as many as 6,000 names on it. Did those people do anything wrong?
DRISCOLL: No, there was never any specific allegations or accusations coming from Bove that, okay, these people on this list committed some kind of legal or policy violation.
COOPER (on camera): In the lawsuit, it says that Bove told you that an allegation of misconduct was not necessary for him to terminate FBI personnel if he subjectively felt a loss of confidence in their ability to carry out the President's agenda.
DRISCOLL: When that request was made. We take it in. Okay, tell me more, why? Well, you know, cultural rot in the FBI.
COOPER (on camera): That was a phrase they used. cultural rot? DRISCOLL: Yes, all of these other uninformed and wrong opinions that
they felt very strongly about. So, I was telling them, this is wrong and if there is corruption or misconduct, we've looked into it, but we will look into it again. But I don't have the trust to just blindly give you a list of names and hope that they don't get fired.
I was resistant legally and professionally resistant to providing the names, unless you tell me they're going to be subject to existing processes to investigate any accusations of misconduct, corruption, whatever. Articulate to me that process, and the only response I got was they will be subject to a DOJ led review. And he couldn't articulate what that review would entail.
COOPER (voice over): The very next day, January 30th, Kash Patel's confirmation hearing, he swore under oath that no FBI employee would be fired because of a case they were assigned to.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, (D-CT): Will you commit that you will not tolerate the firing of the FBI agents who worked with the Special Counsel's Office?
PATEL: Senator, every FBI employee will be held to the same standard, and no one will be terminated for case assignments.
BLUMENTHAL: And I'm not going to accept that answer, because if you can't commit that those FBI agents will be protected from political retribution. We can't accept you as FBI director.
PATEL: All FBI employees will be protected against political retribution.
BLUMENTHAL: They deserve to be protected from Trump retribution.
COOPER (voice over): The day after that testimony, the firings continued.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And when we come back, the deadline that Brian Driscoll was given to hand over that list of all current and former FBI personnel who had been assigned at any time to the January 6th investigations. That, and what he did next, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:04]
COOPER: Before the break, you heard fired FBI Acting Director Brian Driscoll, described himself as apolitical by nature. It was also, he said, a requirement of the job for any FBI agent to be apolitical, at least the job, as it was commonly understood for decades. In his sworn confirmation testimony, incoming Director Kash Patel said that no FBI employee would be fired because of a case they were assigned to.
Yet a day later, Brian Driscoll's Justice Department superior Emil Bove in the middle of conducting a purge of his own at DOJ, ordered Driscoll to provide a list of all FBI personnel who had been assigned to investigations regarding President Trump or the January 6th attack on the Capitol.
Now, in part two of our exclusive conversation, Driscoll talks about what he did about it and what that cost him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The testimony you're about to give --
COOPER (on camera): January 31st, Emil Bove fired more federal prosecutors who'd also worked on cases related to January 6th. And he sent Brian Driscoll this memo with the names of eight senior leaders of the FBI he wanted terminated.
"I do not believe that the current leadership of the Justice Department can trust these FBI employees to assist in implementing the President's agenda faithfully."
[20:20:19]
DRISCOLL: We got a termination memo. The list of all the names and a deadline they can retire by this date or be fired.
COOPER (voice over): In that same memo, Bove also gave Driscoll four days to hand over a list of all current and former FBI personnel who had been assigned at any time to the January 6th investigations.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: This is an extension of a purge that began last week. Within minutes after the new interim leaders of the Justice Department arrived. This has now extended across the street from the Justice Department headquarters to the FBI.
DRISCOLL: I was like, okay, this is a one-way trip for me because I'm not going to tolerate this and be able to look my kids and my wife and my parents, my brothers and my sister in the eye and say, I didn't compromise, what I knew was right.
COOPER (voice over): That same day, Driscoll sent an e-mail to all 38,000 FBI employees explaining what Bove had just directed him to do and promising them he would follow the law, follow FBI policy, and do what's in the best interest of the workforce and the American people, always.
DRISCOLL: After the list was demanded, I explained what was going on to the top leadership of the bureau. Very quiet room in those moments, because in that group I was the youngest and one of the very few who were ineligible to retire by a lot. I had five more years to go. Some people asking and looking at me as if I was crazy and said like, you know how this is probably going to end for you.
Theres a scene at the -- can I talk about a movie?
COOPER (on camera): Of course.
DRISCOLL: So, towards the end of "Good Will Hunting". Robin Williams is discovering the abuse that Matt Damons character went through.
MATT DAMON AMERICAN ACTOR, FILM PRODUCER, AND SCREENWRITER: Have you had any experience with that?
DRISCOLL: Matt Damon articulates the situation he found himself in when he'd come home at night and his foster father would have a stick, a belt and a wrench on the table and say, choose one.
ROBIN WILLIAMS, AMERICAN ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: These are just -- a wrench, a stick and a belt on the table and just say, choose.
Well, I got to go with the belt there.
DRISCOLL: Robin Williams says go ahead, go with the belt. Matt Damon says no, I'd go with the wrench.
DAMON: I used to go with the wrench.
WILLIAMS: Why the wrench?
DAMON: Cause f*ck him, that's why.
DRISCOLL: And so, I said it in those words to the entire leadership of the bureau. I'm choosing the wrench.
COOPER (on camera): You actually invoked "Goodwill Hunting"?
DRISCOLL: Yes, yes, I mean, I can quote philosophy and all this stuff, too. I can I just chose not to because I'm relentlessly and infuriatingly authentic.
COOPER (on camera): That's what you said. I choose the wrench.
DRISCOLL: Yes, absolutely. Because f*ck that. Well, this is wrong and we're going to speak truth to power. And I'm going to speak truth to you. I'm not the smartest. I'm not the best agent ever in the bureau. I am certainly not the best investigator, the best at anything. And I have been around people better than me in every way. And I learned from all of them. And in those moments, I just needed to leverage everything I had. And give it back to them. And I wouldn't change it. I don't regret it. And I would do it again.
COOPER (on camera): Did it make you angry?
DRISCOLL: Yes, no, I was furious, but we have a problem to solve. And there is panic and disruption and people looking over their shoulder wondering if they're going to get fired because they were on the list. Trust is fractured.
Yes, I was angry. I was completely honest. Who wouldn't be? But I didn't have time for that. We had people to protect, to include the American people.
COOPER (on camera): You could have just handed over that list, said this is what the administration wants. DRISCOLL: I'm not built like that. That doesn't make me special by any
means. Doesn't make me tough. I didn't do any of this alone. I was surrounded by massively courageous people the entire time they embrace me. And that's how the trust was built.
COOPER (voice over): Driscoll had a lot of support videos like this one portraying him as batman and Emil Bove as the villain, Bane. began to get sent around by FBI employees.
BANE, CHARACTER IN BATMAN MOVIE: Terrorists, FBI employees resign now, and you will be spared. I offer you severance in the form of eight months' pay.
DRISCOLL: As soon as I watched it, I was like. I had a chuckle. I was like, this isn't going to be good. It went in the next day, and then he was like, oh, and now I'm Bane.
[20:25:07]
COOPER (voice over): Driscoll and Rob Kissane, his deputy talked with each of the eight senior FBI officials Bove wanted fired or forced into retirement.
DRISCOLL: Rob and I explained to them, if you choose to stay and potentially get terminated, we'll do anything we can, or you can retire.
Even through all of Bove's utterances, they still wanted to stay and serve.
COOPER (voice over): But in the end, all of them chose to retire.
DRISCOLL: It was a nightmare, just like I felt on 9/11, the feeling of just absolute helplessness. We have the weight of 38,000 people and the world's finest law enforcement organization on your shoulders and it's you're watching it be compromised illegally.
COOPER (on camera): The FBI is was being compromised?
DRISCOLL: One hundred percent, yes.
COOPER (voice over): February 4th, Bove's deadline for Driscoll to hand over a list of FBI employees who worked January 6th related investigations.
COOPER (on camera): You consulted the general counsel of the FBI?
DRISCOLL: Oh, yes.
COOPER (on camera): You did give a list, but it didn't have any names on it. It was employee numbers.
DRISCOLL: Every FBI employee is assigned a unique identifying number to protect our identities. We turned over the list of numbers with full knowledge that that would probably be deemed, unacceptable.
COOPER (voice over): It was, the following day Bove wrote his own e- mail to all FBI employees.
DRISCOLL: Articulating my insubordination and the fact that I wasn't following orders.
COOPER (voice over): Bove also wrote in the e-mail that the only people who should be concerned about his request for a list of those who worked January 6th cases were, "those who acted with corrupt or partisan intent, who blatantly defied orders from department leadership or who exercised discretion in weaponizing the FBI."
DRISCOLL: It made it a couple days, and then he said, hey, I need the names. We were prepared for that again, reengaging with the attorneys around me. Is this a legal order? Yes, it is and so, we had the names prepared and we passed it on. we call it the red side. So, it's a classified enclave, but an unclassified document just for an extra layer of security.
COOPER (on camera): You knew you were not going to last at this point.
DRISCOLL: Yes, yes, I had full knowledge of that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, coming up next, Driscoll's confrontation with Kash Patel, after which he was fired.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:57]
COOPER: Continuing my exclusive conversation with Brian Driscoll, who served nearly 18 years with the FBI, becoming its acting director in the first few weeks of the second Trump administration. He witnessed and tried to prevent the firings and forced retirements of many FBI agents who'd been involved with investigations into January 6th for President Trump.
A short time later, he'd have a final confrontation with President Trumps pick to be his FBI director, Kash Patel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: I Kash Pramod Patel do solemnly swear.
COOPER (voice-over): February 21st, 2025. Kash Patel was sworn in as FBI director.
PATEL: We will uphold ourselves to the Constitution. The men and women at the FBI, I have your back because you have the backs of the American people.
COOPER (voice-over): Two days later, Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service agent turned MAGA podcaster, was named to be his deputy director.
Brian Driscoll was reassigned. He became the assistant director of the Critical Incident Response Group. Less than six months later, however, his FBI career came to a sudden end.
KYLE SERAPHIN, FORMER FBI AGENT TURNED PODCASTER: Kash Patel called a guy named Brian Driscoll into his office.
COOPER (voice-over): A former FBI agent turned podcaster, Kyle Seraphin, wrote this on X August 4th, claiming an FBI pilot named Christopher Meyer, who'd worked in Driscoll's group, was the case agent on the case resulting in the Mar-a-Lago search warrant. He later spoke about it on a podcast.
SERAPHIN: Kash Patel doesn't even know who's flying his own plane that he's sitting in.
BRIAN DRISCOLL, FORMER FBI ACTING DIRECTOR: There was an individual criticizing Director Patel, accusing Meyer of working the Mar-a-Lago investigation inaccurately, and saying that, well, he's Kash Patel's personal pilot, also misspoken on his part. I had a one-on-one meeting with Director Patel to defend Chris.
Patel essentially said that I should know from sitting in that chair that you can't save everybody. I disagreed. I said that this is wrong, you could potentially be deposed for this in the future, and that this is worth standing up for. And he essentially reflected that his job depended on him making this happen, and that anybody involved in these investigations that they identify are probably going to get fired as well.
COOPER: In the complaint, it says Patel stated that you needed to understand that the FBI tried to put the President in jail --
DRISCOLL: Correct.
COOPER: -- and he hasn't forgotten it. That's a quote.
DRISCOLL: Yes. Well, this is the first time he articulated it that bluntly to me.
COOPER (voice-over): Three days later, Driscoll received this termination letter from Kash Patel. He wrote, "You have failed to execute and perform requested tasks and issued communications to the FBI workforce that undermine the leadership of the Department of Justice."
After serving for 21 years, Brian Driscoll was fired. Five years shy of retirement age, he lost his full pension and his family's health insurance.
[20:35:00]
Chris Meyer, the FBI pilot, was fired the same day. So was Steven Jensen, the assistant director in charge of the FBI's Washington field office, who'd helped oversee investigations related to January 6th. Also fired, Spencer Evans, who was running the FBI's Las Vegas field office, and Walter Giardina, a special agent who'd also worked cases involving President Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give --
COOPER (voice-over): The following month, Director Patel once again testified under oath in a Senate hearing.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: You assured Senator Blumenthal all FBI employees will be protected against political retribution. So you're testifying today that you played no role in the firing of even a single FBI agent for political retribution.
PATEL: None for political retribution.
COOPER: Do you think it's accurate to say that he didn't have a role?
DRISCOLL: If it's while he was the director, there is no scenario where a very public firing, termination, forced retirement happens that the director wouldn't know about.
COOPER: What is the impact of having the kind of firings now that have taken place at the FBI so quickly, I mean, top people in cyber, criminal divisions, national security divisions?
DRISCOLL: Oh, it's devastating. Not just for the morale, but also the stability of the organization and the faith in it from the people inside of it and the people outside of it.
COOPER: The FBI's initials are the same as its motto.
DRISCOLL: Fidelity, bravery, and integrity.
COOPER: What does that mean to you?
DRISCOLL: It goes hand-in-hand with the mission of the FBI, which is to protect the American people and uphold the Constitution, to have a true north and a moral compass that you stick to in the face of any adversity and be grounded in humility and willing to sacrifice.
COOPER: You loved the organization.
DRISCOLL: I still do. I think about it every day, and I think about, hopefully, the moment I can do it again.
COOPER: You want to go back?
DRISCOLL: I'm going to go back, if they let me. I don't see a world where I go back during this administration. I'll go back in one of two capacities, either as the actual director or I'll push an engine around the Bronx on a gang squad somewhere doing the job that I signed up for the FBI to do.
COOPER: You would be a line agent again.
DRISCOLL: 100 percent. Being a line agent is where the rubber meets the road. You're working the investigation. It's not about the money for any of us. It's about the service.
I'm not done. I have a lot of fight left in me. I have a lot to give. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Before continuing the conversation with his attorney, Margaret Donovan, we should mention again that Brian Driscoll, along with Steven Jensen and Spencer Evans, two other FBI officials who were fired, have sued Kash Patel, the FBI, and the federal government for wrongful termination and retaliation. The Department of Justice has rejected those claims, filed a motion to dismiss.
CNN has reached out to the White House, the Department of Justice, the FBI, and Kash Patel, and has received no response. Emile Bove declined to comment.
I'm joined now by Brian Driscoll's attorney, Margaret Donovan. She also represents one of the other plaintiffs in Driscoll's lawsuit. So, Margaret, the Trump administration, they're trying to get this lawsuit dismissed on the grounds the President and those exercising executive authority on his behalf have quote, "substantial latitude" in removing subordinate federal personnel such as plaintiffs. What's your response to that? Essentially, Kash Patel can fire whoever he wants?
MARGARET DONOVAN, ATTORNEY FOR BRIAN DRISCOLL: Yes, our read of the government's argument, and of course, both parties have their filings in this case we -- that are on the public docket, but our read of the government's argument is that they are claiming that this so-called Article 2 removal authority, which we have seen litigated all over at the highest levels of federal courts, whether it's involving Lisa Cook or Rebecca Slaughter, the FTC commissioner, or Cathy Harris of the Merit System Protection Board, we have seen this Article 2 removal authority used by the President or on behalf of the President.
But what makes this case a little bit different is that Kash himself, of course, is not the President, nor is he even a department head within the constitutional structure of the White House, the DOJ, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which of course is a subordinate unit.
So he's not even a department head under the Constitution, and he is claiming to wield this authority, but in a hearing that you just played a clip of, in a separate part of that hearing, he claimed that actually the White House had nothing to do with these firings, and he did this entirely on his own.
And so there's a tension there between him claiming that he is doing something using this presidential removal authority, but then going under oath and saying, actually, never mind, the President had nothing to do with it. Our argument is going to be, and is, that no matter who's wielding the authority, it's incorrect, and there are statutory protections and a property interest that applies to agents that had the senior executive service categorization that Brian Driscoll and the other plaintiffs did.
COOPER: Yes.
DONOVAN: But the upshot of all of this is that we believe that Kash Patel is not properly wielding this authority. [20:40:07]
COOPER: And the government's motion to dismiss, I mean it's complicated, they reject the claim that your clients were fired for exercising their First Amendment rights, they're saying that performing work duties is not speech, not protected by the First Amendment.
DONOVAN: Yes, the gist of their argument sort of mischaracterizes our point and the points that we made in our filings, which are chiefly that the administration through Patel, and in a pattern through other administration officials, are basically submitting what should be apolitical career FBI employees to loyalty tests.
And those loyalty tests can take different forms, but when there is political influence, and you are basically being judged for your personal political patronage, we are saying that it is a constitutional violation to be fired in that way. And, by the way, that also interacts with the Article 2 argument that we just discussed.
The way that the government is wielding it, it would be so in a way that would seem to supersede the rest of the Constitution, including Article 1, which allows Congress to create removal protection laws, and the First Amendment as we just discussed, and the Fifth Amendment right to do process. So the Article 2 argument we think is also neutralized by our plaintiffs' First Amendment rights.
COOPER: Margaret Donovan, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Joining us now is someone who has also held Brian Driscoll's title, Andrew McCabe, served as acting director from May to August of 2017, before being fired from his position as deputy director the following year. He's now our senior law enforcement analyst. Also with us, Chief Law Enforcement Intelligence Analyst John Miller, who's a former FBI assistant director of public affairs, and Former Federal Prosecutor Jessica Roth.
Andrew, what do you make of what Brian Driscoll said?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, boy, there's so much there, Anderson. I tell you, he is -- just listening to him speak, and listening to the way that he talks about his job, and his relationship with the organization, and the way that he thinks about FBI people, it just really -- it just brought back so much to me to hear that kind of pride, that authenticity, that commitment to mission, and to colleagues.
It's just something that I'm so familiar with after 21 years of my own service in the FBI, and I think that's what really resonates with Brian Driscoll and people in the FBI. He is somebody who has shared our experience, shares our love for the organization, and when put under incredible pressure, stepped up and did the right thing.
It's what every FBI person dreams and hopes to be able to do at some point in their lives, in their career, and Brian Driscoll did it, and hats off to him.
COOPER: John Miller, I mean, you're formerly with the FBI. He's very well respected among the ring file.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: He is legendary for not just who he is, but what he's done. Brian Driscoll has been on the hostage rescue team --
COOPER: Which is a very elite hostage rescue team. They work internationally.
MILLER: It is, and he has parachuted out of planes with Special Forces and been on captures of international terrorists, and been in the most dangerous kinds of assignments that you could possibly get. And to see the government, for political reasons, treat someone who has risked so much, put so much on the line, for political reasons, is really a damn shame.
COOPER: Also, the number of these FBI agents who were fired or forced into retirement earlier than they -- I mean, some of them lost retirement savings, some of them, you know, their wives have just -- one -- like a wife had just died, and this person is, you know, being put to prisons (ph).
MILLER: Yes. That was Giardino (ph) as he was burying his wife, they were calling him in to be fired, and saying, you know, we'll leave the funeral home and get here and accept this letter. It was brutal, and unnecessarily so, given the fact that the stakes were actually pretty low here.
COOPER: Jessica, in terms of the legal case, you've reviewed the complaint filed by Driscoll's attorneys.
JESSICA ROTH, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: It's an incredibly compelling complaint. I mean, the story that he tells in the interview with you is recounted in the complaint. It provides such detail and makes it perfectly clear why he was fired, why the others were fired. It was nakedly political.
And the President of the administration is pursuing the argument that the President has the authority to basically fire any career public servant under Article II of the Constitution, and to delegate that authority to other officials like Kash Patel. That's an unprecedented argument to be making with respect to this level of career public servant.
COOPER: Driscoll said in the interview that there are processes in place within the FBI, multiple different ways to have investigations to see if an employee has done something wrong.
ROTH: And Congress has passed statutes precisely to provide protections from political interference and to promote the independence and professionalism of the FBI.
COOPER: Why is that important? Why should there -- I mean, why shouldn't the -- some of the director just be able to fire people? [20:45:05]
ROTH: I think you get a sense from that interview of the character and integrity of Driscoll and his dedication to the country, the Constitution, and to the institution of the FBI. You want people at the FBI to be guided by those principles and by what's in the national interest and not be looking out or prioritizing pursuit of the President's perceived political enemies, which is what we've been seeing the focus of resources of the FBI and the DOJ to be recently.
His story is, of course, just part of that larger narrative about what's been happening with politicization of the DOJ and the FBI.
MILLER: Can I just mention something about the characters here in this story? You know, you've got Stephen Miller in the White House who's calling over to DOJ as people are submitting names to the White House bloggers --
COOPER: Right -- by the way, podcasters and bloggers -- and nothing against podcasters and bloggers, but they're just putting names forward, contacting people in the administration, and people are getting fired it seems.
MILLER: Some of this stuff is factually incorrect. The pilot who worked in CERG was not the case agent on Mar-a-Lago. And Emil Bove, who was then deputy attorney general, when he was in New York as head of the national security branch at the United States Attorney's Office and my detectives at the JTTF, along with those agents --
COOPER: The Joint Terrorism Task Force.
MILLER: And The Joint Terrorism Task Force in New York, on the domestic terrorism side, were making January 6 arrests of violent protesters who had committed violent acts. Emil Bove at the U.S. Attorney's Office was pushing to get more cases.
The simple idea --
COOPER: Wait a minute. Emil Bove, you have personal knowledge that Emil Bove was pushing to get more cases against January 6 defendants.
MILLER: Exactly. And the mere idea that he would become deputy attorney general and then seek to gather the names of everybody in the country and the FBI who worked on these cases, including the people who worked on the cases he was saying I want more of for the ostensible purposes of firing them all without any due process is the height of hypocrisy.
And if you compare these two characters, Emil Bove, what did he get out of it? He got nominated to the Court of Appeals where he has a lifetime appointment where he can't be fired.
And if you look at Brian Driscoll, what did he do? He did the right thing when doing the wrong thing would have been so much easier and safer for him. And what did he get for that? He's out of pension, he's out of health insurance, and he's out on the street. COOPER: Andrew, I want to play something that Kash Patel said today before Senate Subcommittee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How's your morale at the FBI?
PATEL: Morale has never been better. When I go across the country and I talk to the line agents and the intelligence analysts and professional staff, I travel around the country, I talk to our state and local partners, they tell me one thing resoundingly. We're finally going to do the work that we were asked to do with the resources that we needed to get the job done.
And that's what this administration is focused on. And that's why you're seeing the results that we talked about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you know anybody who believes that?
MCCABE: No. No. I don't know who he's talking to or if he just made that up to provide that answer. You talk to FBI people, you talk to people who've recently left the FBI. The tenor in the FBI right now is fear, it's anxiety, it's paranoia.
People are worried about getting fired, losing their benefits and retirement in the way that Brian Driscoll did. People are trying to figure out who's siding with the director and pursuing this political agenda and who's actually going to be able to help me and protect me from it. It is -- it's something that has never existed in the FBI before and it's tearing it apart right now.
COOPER: Andrew McCabe, John Miller, Jessica Roth, thanks so much.
Up next, more states monitoring for hantavirus tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:52:49]
COOPER: We have breaking news. Nine U.S. states are now monitoring for hantavirus. Most were on the hantavirus hit cruise ship. This includes the 16 people at a special facility in Nebraska, one of whom, Dr. Stephen Kornfeld, spoke with CNN's Erin Burnett tonight from the Biocontainment Unit there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. STEPHEN KORNFELD, AMERICAN HANTAVIRUS PATIENT IN ISOLATION IN NEBRASKA: It's a little weird being in here by myself, but the nurses come in, the doctors come in. I'm on WhatsApp all the time. It's really amazing how quickly time flies.
Many weeks of this, well, we'll see how that goes. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So far, he says he feels fine. Two others are at a Biocontainment Unit in Atlanta, and three more, all from the ship, have died. In a moment, you'll hear from Jay -- excuse me, Jake Rosmarin, who is one of the Americans who is now quarantined. This is his room. He's a travel influencer, has a longstanding relationship with the cruise line, was aboard, posted in collaboration with the company, but when things got serious, he uploaded this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE ROSMARIN, TRAVEL CONTENT CREATOR: There's a lot of uncertainty, and that's the hardest part. All we want right now is to feel safe, to have clarity, and to get home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He is still not home, but joins me tonight along with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Jake, when you first heard that hantavirus had been detected on the ship, can you just take us back to that moment? I mean, you'd had this incredible, you know, voyage, this incredible journey. To suddenly hear that, what was that like?
ROSMARIN: It was, honestly, it was extremely terrifying for me. Obviously, it's not a virus I knew much about. I know that Gene Hackman's wife had passed away from it, but it's -- and I remember that happening, but I don't remember the virus itself. So when I started to learn more about the virus, it became a little less scary, especially knowing that human to human transmission was relatively low.
COOPER: You took video from inside your quarantine unit. Can you just tell us more about what it's like?
[20:55:03]
ROSMARIN: Yes. So, honestly it's a -- one of the things that's nice is it's just a good change of scenery. And it's much more spacious than my cabin was. I love that we have our exercise equipment, and we're allowed to get packages delivered here. So I actually received clothes today, and I'm receiving, you know, special things for my bed as well, so I can feel more at home knowing that I'm going to be here for another 40 days.
COOPER: Jake, I want to bring in our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, I know you've got some questions for Jake. First, just what else can he and the other passengers expect while in quarantine?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, my understanding -- and by the way, Jake, I'm glad you're doing well.
ROSMARIN: Thank you. GUPTA: My understanding is that there's a 72-hour assessment period that's happening now. Trying to put together a lot of the pieces, obviously, see how people are doing medically, but also, you know, this idea of trying to figure out who's the most at risk based on contacts, exposures, obviously testing, things like that.
You know what's interesting, Anderson, is that obviously there's several countries around the world that are sort of doing the same thing. And the guidance from the World Health Organization has been 42 days of monitoring, as you were just talking about with Jake.
But it's interesting -- different countries are handling it differently. And as you know, even in the United States, Jake and others will be given a sort of decision, an option, as to what to do. But if you look at the screen there, the U.K., for example, they're saying isolate at home for up to 45 days upon return. Do that at home.
Canada, they're saying self-isolate for 21 days and then reassess to determine if it should be extended to 42 days. Singapore, 30-day quarantine followed by testing, and if negative, then 15 days of phone surveillance.
So you get an idea of just how different it is in different places around the world, all from that basic guidance from the WHO to basically say 42 days from now, which is about 7 to 8 weeks total, if you count the time on the ship, Anderson.
COOPER: Does this concern you, Sanjay, that some passengers, you know, are able to leave the quarantine facility to continue monitoring at home? I mean, should that be concerning to people?
GUPTA: Well, there's two ways that I sort of look at this, and, you know, I've covered a lot of these types of stories over the years, as have you. But I don't know if you remember back in 2018, there was a woman who also contracted the same virus, was in Argentina, was healthy, got on a plane, took two commercial flights, had 53 different contacts in retrospect that they found, and when she got home, she got sick.
They went back and they contact traced all those folks, they asked them to isolate, they did testing and all that, and none of them got sick. None of those 53 contacts got sick, and none of them tested positive.
So in that sense, I don't think it's that concerning. I think one of the challenges, and we saw this with Ebola, Anderson, is that -- so if you ask people to quarantine at home, if someone breaks the quarantine, how will that then be handled? I mean, what sort of enforcement will there be around this? I think that's sort of the big question you have to address that, I think, at the beginning as well.
COOPER: I know you have questions for Jake.
GUPTA: Yes, you know, so Jake, by the way, I'm an Instagram follower of yours now, so I have been following your videos. The thing I saw in there when you were showing the room was you also said you're taking your temperature every day, I believe.
ROSMARIN: Yes, so we're taking temperature check.
GUPTA: I'm just wondering, are there other medical tests?
ROSMARIN: So today, we actually got our blood work done. So I don't know if you saw my more recent video. I had a bandage on my right arm. That is because they were doing the PCR and the antibody testing. But that is the testing that we had gotten done today.
GUPTA: And Jake, you just heard how other countries around the world are handling this quarantine different in Canada, the U.K., Singapore, for example. I'm just wondering how you're thinking about that, especially given how other countries are handling it. Does that make you want to stay at the facility the entire time or something different?
ROSMARIN: I think I'm someone who tends to be a bit of a hypochondriac, and I have a bit of anxiety. So I think it's reassuring to know that I know you just discussed that case, but it seems like there was a decent amount of spread on the ship, and it is close contact for an extended period of time. We were on that ship for five weeks, and it ended up being six weeks because of the seven days that it took us to end up getting off.
And with all of that in mind, even if it is low risk, I still would rather play at being cautious and being here knowing that I have that care just in case in that minimal risk that I do get sick, that I have the care that I need.
COOPER: Is there something you're looking forward to most once you're out of quarantine? I mean, 42 days, 41 days is a long time.
ROSMARIN: So, it's actually a question that I've been asked a lot, and it may sound cliche, but I cannot wait to give my fiance and my family and friends hugs because that's something that I just really miss. That first hug is going to feel like the best thing in the world.
COOPER: Well, Jake, I hope it happens soon. Jake Rosmarin, I appreciate it.
ROSMARIN: Thank you.
COOPER: Sanjay Gupta as well, thank you.
ROSMARIN: Thank you so much.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
