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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Says Xi Offered to "Help" With Iran; Iran: Thirty Ships Cross Strait of Hormuz, Including Chinese Vessels; Trump Weighs in on Summit Online; Trump Says Xi Pledged Not To Provide Iran With Military Equipment; Musk Flies To China With Trump; "This Is Wrong": Former Acting FBI Director On Trump Admin. Efforts To Purge The Bureau Of Those Who Investigated The President. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 14, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... human rights record, Erin, and there's viral speculation online right now that China changed the Chinese spelling of Rubio's name by one character to quietly let the Secretary of State into the country.
CNN Beijing Bureau Chief Steven Jiang says that Chinese officials have actually used different translations of Rubio's name for years, and Beijing has already been signaling that those sanctions applied to Rubio, the senator, and not Rubio, the diplomat.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Okay, all of it incredible, Will Ripley, thank you very much, reporting from Taiwan's night. Thanks for joining us, Anderson starts now.
[20:00:35]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom. Topping our CNN Global coverage tonight as President Trump engaging in wishful thinking out loud about the possibility of China helping him in the war with Iran.
It is real question going to day two of the summit in Beijing because the what the President has been saying on the subject and what Xi Jinping at least publicly has not. Listen to what the President said Xi told him during their talks so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: President Xi would like to see a deal made. He would like to see a deal made. And he did offer, he said, if I can be of any help at all, I would like to be of help because --
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, "HANNITY": He did say that.
TRUMP: Yes, he did say that. And look, anybody that buys that much oil is obviously got some kind of a relationship with them. But he said, I would love to be a help, if I could be of any help whatsoever. He'd like to see the Hormuz Strait open. He said, if I can be of any help whatsoever, I would like to help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The President talking to Fox's Sean Hannity. No word from either President Xi or his government confirming that. China's Foreign Ministry did say that the Middle East was among the topics the two leaders discussed also that Beijing's policy on the Strait had been, "consistent and clear." However, there was no indication that Xi had made any commitments of the kind that the President described, nor was anything said about this pledge. The President described as a, "big statement."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: ... the issue and you've been asked about it and you've spoken about it, and that is China's support of Iran. How big a discussion was that today?
TRUMP: We discussed it, I mean, when you say support, they're not fighting a war with us or anything.
HANNITY: No.
TRUMP: He said, he's not going to give military equipment. That's a big statement. He said that today. That's a big statement. He said that strongly. But at the same time, he said, you know, they buy a lot of their oil there and they'd like to keep doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Again, no word from Beijing on this, nor many details from Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He said the Chinese side said they were not in favor of militarizing the Strait of Hormuz or Iran, tolling ships going through that Strait. He also said they reiterated Beijing's long-standing opposition to Iran having nuclear weapons. As for what the President is claiming Xi agreed to, though, he said nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NBC NEWS: Help me understand what exactly did President Trump ask President Xi for when it comes to Iran?
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: He didn't ask him for anything. I mean, we're not asking for China's help or we don't need their help.
HOST: But he raises the issue.
RUBIO: We raised the issue to make clear what our position is and to make it clear so they understand, because, I mean, it's logical we would talk about it given how dominant that issue is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, it's clearly a priority for the President for Xi Jinping, though not so much, it seems. China's priority was made clear in this passage today from a foreign ministry statement on the talks, which read like the diplomatic equivalent of a major league brushback pitch.
Quoting now, "President Xi stressed that the Taiwan question is the most important issue in China-U.S. relations. If it is handled properly, the bilateral relationship will enjoy overall stability. Otherwise, the statement continues, the two countries will have clashes and even conflicts, putting the entire relationship in great jeopardy. The U.S. side must exercise extra caution in handling the Taiwan question.
Going into the summit, a number of foreign policy observers expressed concerns that Xi Jinping would seize on the Presidents need for Beijing's help on Iran to extract American concessions on Taiwan. There's no sign so far that this has happened, but the mere fact that the Chinese believe they could issue that warning at this time could suggest how they view the current power dynamic.
Another sign of who holds the cards is the President likes to say is these some 30 vessels have passed through the Strait of Hormuz since last night, according to Iran on Iran's terms, including Chinese ships, a Chinese supertanker went through yesterday. Meanwhile, in Beijing, Premier Xi is acting like someone who doesn't need much from this summit, and the President, by contrast, is offering up personal tributes to his host.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Such respect for China, the job you've done. You're a great leader, I say it to everybody. You're a great leader. Sometimes people don't like me saying it, but I say it anyway because it's true. I only say the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President Trump, describing himself as a teller of truths. Late this evening, early morning Beijing time, the President posted a long missive about the summit online, quoting him now, "When President Xi very eloquently referred to the United States as perhaps being a declining nation, he was referring to the tremendous damage we suffered during the four years of Sleepy Joe Biden and the Biden administration. And on that score, he was 100 percent correct."
Now, keeping them honest, President Xi did not literally call the U.S. a declining nation. He did not use those words. What the President appears to be talking about is a reference that President Xi made today to a geopolitical concept called the Thucydides trap, the concept where a rising power in this case, perhaps China poses a threat to an existing power, in this case, the U.S., which could then lead to conflict. President Xi today warned against that. Continuing on, the President writes, our country suffered immeasurably with open borders, high taxes, transgender for everybody, men and women, sports DEI, horrible trade deals, rampant crime and so much more.
[20:05:49] President Xi was not referring to the incredible rise that the United States has displayed to the world. The President goes on to say, during the 16 spectacular months of the Trump administration, which includes all time high stock markets, 401(k)s, military victory and thriving relationship in Venezuela, the military decimation of Iran (to be continued.)
I want to start with CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes, who is in Beijing tonight. So, is it clear, Kristen, how much President Trump's comments to Sean Hannity align with what is actually going on behind this closed-door meeting? And is it normal for a President of the United States to reveal at this stage stuff that he has talked about in meetings with the President of China? That seems like something normally done maybe after.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly and I'll get to that in one second. I do want to go through what you first asked, which is this idea of whether or not we have an understanding of what President Trump is saying to Hannity, if that's what's happening behind-the-scenes, and the answer is, at this time, we don't, and it's not likely were going to get any kind of insight, any kind of details of what happened in those private conversations until after the U.S. delegation is off the ground later today.
And that's because it's increasingly hard for us reporters to communicate with U.S. officials and for U.S. officials to even communicate with each other while they're on the ground here in China. Most of them are operating on very secure, intense security protocols because of these cyber threats that they face that are here in the country. So, they're not using their own phones, they're using burners. They're not actually communicating. Even some of them with each other. They have new numbers, new encrypted apps that don't have their real names on them. So, it's made communications, even among staffers, increasingly difficult.
So, we're going to have to wait for the next several days after President Trump leaves to actually get some of those details from the officials who are here on the ground. The other part of this is what you just mentioned, this kind of unveiling of these remarks, whether or not they are exactly what President Xi said are likely not to go over well with the Chinese President, who President Trump is slated to meet with in just a few hours. They are going to have their second bilateral meeting. This one was going to be a smaller group. They're going to hammer out all the details. And one of the things that President Trump said that President Xi had told him is that he wanted to continue to do business with Iran, no matter what. He wanted to continue to buy oil from Iran.
We also know President Xi has a close relationship with Iran. Not only do they buy oil, but they are aligned in many aspects. Their closest ally in the region. So, the idea that President Trump is going out there and saying that President Xi is saying he's going to help with Iran, help reopen the strait, do whatever it takes in terms of aiding the United States. That's likely not to sit well with Chinese leaders as you mentioned. Usually this would be something that would be done after the trip is over. And up until that interview, we seen President Trump really playing it safe, particularly for the President.
He had been in a number of situations with reporters shouting questions at him about Iran or about Taiwan. He had largely not answered a single thing. He'd only said that he was having a great trip. He had deferred to President Xi, who was clearly not answering any questions. He doesn't answer questions from reporters in these kinds of settings. So, this idea that he got out there and made this interview, it'll be interesting to hear from our sources how that plays out during the second bilateral meeting today.
Again, specifically, given the relationship that China has with Iran, even if this is something that President Xi said to President Trump, it is almost certainly not something he wanted publicized.
COOPER: Kristen Holmes, thanks very much. Joining me now is former U.S. Ambassador to China Nicholas Burns and Randy Phillips, former chief of station in Beijing for the CIA and Chief of China operations for the CIA as well.
Ambassador Burns, you have President Trump making claims on Fox about Xi Jinping has allegedly agreed to in Iran. What do you make of the President's version of events.
NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: Well, it's hard to say. I think in some instances like this, Anderson, my experience with the Chinese is sometimes you get a lot of promises, but you got to look for the follow up and the commitments. Do they actually undertake what they said they would do?
I do think it was important that they met. This is the most challenging, most dangerous relationship we have with any country in the world. If we want to stabilize that relationship, then our President has to be meeting with Xi Jinping. I thought it was positive that they had the meeting.
[20:10:15]
As you know, President Trump has invited President Xi to return for a return visit in September. But there are a lot of outstanding questions. Maybe they'll be answered today in the meeting on Friday in Beijing. Maybe they won't. But Taiwan is first and foremost. President Xi fired a shot across the bow of the United States with a very aggressive statement. It's not the first time he's done that. And that statement was meant to intimidate the United States. He essentially said if the United States crosses China's red lines, there's a possibility of a conflict between the U.S. and China.
We can't be intimidated by that. And I think what I'm looking for, Anderson, is following this summit. Will President Trump go forward with this big arms package for Taiwan that we've been promising and that President Trump put to the side in order to have this meeting in Beijing? No American President for 50 years has allowed a leader in Beijing to tell us what we can and cannot do, and helping Taiwan to defend itself.
So, I think that's one big issue to look for today. And secondly, on Iran, it's not surprising that the Chinese would say that they don't want Iran to become a nuclear weapons power. That's been their position for 20 years. It's also not surprising that China said apparently in the meeting that it wanted the Strait to be open without Iran as a toll keeper. That's been China's position since the start of the war on February 28th.
But I find it difficult to believe that the Chinese are going to do a lot to help us out of the mess that were in, and to really lean on the Iranians, to agree to a short ceasefire with the United States. So, those are two big questions, there are many others that remain to be answered.
COOPER: Randy, given your experience in the region and in the country, what stands out to you about what we've heard so far?
RANDAL PHILLIPS, FORMER CIA CHIEF OF STATION IN BEIJING: Well, thank you, Anderson. I mean, I agree with what the Ambassador Burns just said. I think, you know, a lot of good pleasantries and all, but the details are obviously still lacking. We have the U.S. side putting out what the Chinese have supposedly said, but the Chinese haven't put out what the Chinese supposedly said.
So, there's going to be a major difference in that situation. So, we're going to have to watch and see what comes out after the end of the meeting today. I think it's; the Taiwan point is certainly very important. At the uppermost here, and I couldn't agree more with Ambassador Burns that we cannot allow China to dictate what we do and do not do in terms of arms sales to Taiwan. I'm sure there have been some sleepless nights in Taipei with the leadership there. I think we also have to see what happens on the trade side. I'm sure there's going to be some announcements on deals made. I believe the President came out and announced the 200 Boeings or so, which I think were somewhat less than what people had hoped for, but good nonetheless. And I couldn't agree more with Ambassador Burns in terms of the fact that the meeting happened is great.
At this meeting, we got the meeting coming up in September, plus the G-20 and APEC later in the year will offer opportunities for the Presidents to get together. So, there's plenty of opportunity here to see this detente continue. But the devil is going to be in the details and well see tomorrow.
COOPER: Ambassador, does it seem like President Trump was put on the defensive in some way by President Xi's reference to the Thucydides and the rising established powers in Ancient Greece?
BURNS: Well, he may have been. Actually, President Xi raises that frequently. When I was in many meetings with him in Beijing --
COOPER: He brought it up in like 2015, didn't he?
BURNS: That's from 2015. It's a book written by my colleague Graham Allison at Harvard. But President Xi has been raising that with foreign leaders, including with President Biden and others, for a long time. I actually thought the meeting got off to a poor start when the press came into the room, Anderson, at the beginning, when President Trump was so effusive in his praise for President Xi as a great leader.
Now, it's understandable that President Trump wants to be civil and polite. Of course, he should be in visiting a foreign country. But to say that President Xi is a great leader and a positive sense, this is the same President Xi who has commanded the most aggressive cyberattack against the United States in our history, who's building up the people's Liberation Army to outcompete, try to outcompete our military in the Indo-Pacific.
He's the leader who's responsible for the greatest human rights violations, really, of any leader in the world. I hope that President Trump is going to campaign for the release of Jimmy Lai from prison in Hong Kong and the other prisoners, like Ekpar Asat a young Uyghur person who's been held unjustly for ten years.
And so, you know, with the Chinese, flattery gets you -- doesn't get you anywhere. They have a plan. And I think flattery could it could convey a sign of weakness on our part that President Trump should not want to convey.
[20:15:17]
COOPER: Yes, I mean, it is kind of remarkable because obviously flattery does seem to get some people somewhere with this with this administration, not so much with China. Randy, can you just remind viewers why the fate of Taiwan is so important to China and to so many American politicians as well and obviously, the Taiwanese?
PHILLIPS: Well, certainly from the China perspective, it's the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation that Xi Jinping has pursued for many years now. And basically, bringing Chinese territories back home.
So, for the Chinese Communist Party, it's a very existential issue. And it's something that certainly no Chinese leader could walk away from Taiwan and probably survive. So, it's very important for them to see this issue resolved at some point. Thus far, the leaders have been willing to sort of kick that can down the road. As long as there was no movement towards independence. Xi Jinping is kind of upping the temperature on this, but so far, so good.
From the Taiwan perspective, obviously, we should all care about what happens with that island, not only for the international law and the morality of it, et cetera, but the 90 percent of the world's most sophisticated chips that operate everything that goes beep are made in Taiwan. And to see that industry somehow affected would hurt our economy, hurt the global economy in a very significant way.
COOPER: Randy Phillips, great to have you on again, Ambassador Burns, as well. Thank you so much.
Coming up next, how all this is being seen in Iran, including the President's veiled threat late tonight that the war is, "to be continued."
And later, what Elon Musk and a slew of other American business leaders hope to get out of their trip to China with the President, and what he hopes to gain by their presence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:12]
COOPER: We are awaiting a second day of critical talks in Beijing between President Trump and the Chinese Leader, Xi Jinping. As we mentioned before the break, the President had plenty to say about day one and the help President Xi was allegedly offering on Iran. This is according to President Trump. President Xi, not so much.
Perspective now from CNN global affairs analyst Karim Sadjadpour, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Also, Edward Fishman, director of the center for geoeconomics at the council on foreign relations and author of "Choke Points: American Power in The Age of Economic Warfare". Also, CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.
So, Edward, what stood out to you today?
EDWARD FISHMAN, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR GEOECONOMICS AT THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, it was very clear that President Trump wants to depict Xi Jinping as trying to put pressure on the Iranians to end the war.
COOPER: Why would they do that?
FISHMAN: They don't really have an interest. I think this is where I'm caught up right here, because right now, the United States, which is China's chief adversary, is bogged down in a quagmire in the Middle East. We have no real hope of getting out of it. And meanwhile, China, which dominates all of these clean energy technologies like electric vehicles, solar panels, wind -- the rest of the world is going to embrace those technologies in the coming years, and that's going to give China a whole lot of leverage over, even our allies.
COOPER: So, they're going to have an economic boom from that, from us being bogged down.
FISHMAN: That's, right.
COOPER: And also, military boom.
FISHMAN: And the thing is kind of confusing too or that's surprising rather, is back when I was in government, we always would have thought that China would have been a loser from a crisis in Hormuz because they import so much oil. But it's a very different world right now. They actually have stockpiled 1.5 billion barrels of oil. So, they've got plenty of oil just in storage in China, plus all those clean energy technologies. They're relatively insulated from sort of the economic aftershocks of the crisis in the strait of Hormuz. And then strategically, they look like they're going to emerge as a winner.
COOPER: And Karim, Iran's state linked news agency, said that roughly 30 vessels, including Chinese ships, passed through the Strait since Wednesday night. What's the message there? And who is the audience for that message?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, the audience for the Iranian government is Beijing, to say that if Iran is the toll keeper of the gatekeeper of the Strait of Hormuz, they will offer China preferential treatment. They're not going to offer Iranian adversaries that preferential treatment. And, you know, just to amplify what Edward said, Anderson, when I've talked to Chinese officials in the past, their position on the Middle East is pretty straightforward.
They want to see the free flow of oil from the region, and they want to see stability in the region in order to ensure that free flow of oil. And so, that's why I think their position has been consistent in that they opposed Trump's war against Iran because they believed it would destabilize the region. But I also do think that they oppose Iranian control over the Strait and an Iranian nuclear weapon, because they think that also would be destabilizing for the region.
COOPER: Colonel Leigton, I want to play something that the commander of U.S. Central Command, Admiral Brad Cooper, told a Senate committee today about Iran's military capability. Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): Can they strike oil infrastructure across the Persian Gulf?
ADMIRAL BRAD COOPER, CENTCOM COMMANDER: They have a very moderate, if not small, capability to continue strikes. And we, of course, have accordingly prepared for such a contingency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Colonel, the President in a Truth Social post, said he referred to the military decimation of Iran, to be continued. The remaining capacity. How do you think that that impacts whatever decision is made here?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, it's a great question, Anderson. I think the admiral was a bit imprecise in his description of things, because this moderate to minimal capability that Iran supposedly has is still a significant capability. And I think it's probably more than what he said in his senate hearing today. I think basically what you're looking at is the capability that they can strike infrastructure targets within the Gulf, and they can do so, and do great damage.
So, that is, you know, what we're looking at. And when I think of, you know, the way in which the Iranians have arrayed their forces, I think it's pretty clear that they still have a capability that I will, potentially cause some more economic damage to the Arab gulf states. So that is, you know, an area where the U.S. has to step up and defend those allies if it wants to maintain a foothold in the Middle East.
COOPER: Edward, in terms of timing of this summit, is this kind of the worst possible time for the U.S. President to be meeting with Chinese Premier?
FISHMAN: It's not optimal, right? I mean, with --
COOPER: For a prisoner who talks about holding all the cards all the time, the U.S. doesn't seem to have a lot of cards right now.
FISHMAN: I think that's right. I mean, on the military side, and Colonel Leighton put this before, you know, we've got our military resources right now all arrayed in the Middle East, right? So, were actually drawing down from other regions.
On the economic side, we now have inflation ticking up to 3.8 percent. That's the highest it's been in three years. And there's no end in sight for this energy crisis. So, I do think Trump is entering this summit on the back foot. I think the reason he went ahead with it, though, Anderson, is it seems like he's very eager to sort of change the channel. Everyone's been focused on Iran for the last few months. Maybe this is something that can get everyone focused on China, but I'm a little skeptical it's going to work.
COOPER: Karim, what are you hearing out of Iran? What is your view of where the regime is there and, and how concerned are you about their, you know, the reports that were getting about them kind of regaining access to, to a number of their military sites?
SADJADPOUR: I think outwardly, the regime remains confident that they've prevailed. They've withstood American military power and given how much they've lost as a result of this war, I mean, were talking about hundreds of billions potentially in damages. You know, they, they are asking for a lot in terms of concessions, but at the same time, privately, this is a country which is hurting badly. It's losing about $450 million daily as a result of this blockade. It's blocking its own people from internet access, which is costing the country $80 million a day.
So, I think they're also keen to end this war, but on their own terms. And for that reason, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel in terms of a negotiated settlement.
COOPER: Blocking internet access by the regime in Iran is costing them $80 million a day.
FISHMAN: It shows you, Anderson, how much they fear their own population even still that they're willing to cost their own coffers about $80 million daily in order to keep their population in the dark.
COOPER: Colonel Leighton, "The New York Times" has reported that the UAE and Saudi Arabia have carried out secret attacks on Iran, "in retaliation for attacks conducted against them during the war in the Middle East. What does that tell you about how the Gulf States are positioning themselves if this conflict, you know, reignites fully?
LEIGHTON: Yeah, if this conflict reignites Anderson, you will see, I think, more activities by the UAE and Saudi Arabia and potentially other countries, perhaps Qatar going after Iranian targets, each of those states has had a history of at least some discreet military actions and even special operations type actions against Iran. Most of those don't get publicized, but they've had some capabilities to do that. And of course, what they're trying to do is they're trying to go after Iran because of the economic damage that Iran has already done to their businesses, their energy infrastructure, as well as their airline industries.
COOPER: Edward, you were part of the team, which developed policies strengthening sanctions on Iran. Iran wants full relief from those sanctions in their response to the U.S. Do you think those sanctions, I mean, do you think that will be part of whatever agreement ultimately ends this?
FISHMAN: I think it has to be, right? I mean, if you think about what's the leverage, we have right now to actually get the Iranians to make a deal. To Karim's point, they're clearly under economic pressure, right. So, I do think there's an incentive for Iran to negotiate.
The question is, is there something that we can provide the Iranians in terms of economic compensation that will get them to get rid of that 440 kilograms of high enriched uranium to suspend uranium enrichment for at least 10, 15, ideally 20 years, and then critically, to it, reopen the Strait of Hormuz in a way where they're not charging a toll.
The toll, if you look at it over the course of a year, could be worth up to $50 billion for Iran every single year. So, you've got to provide some carrot for them to give that up.
COOPER: Which is I mean, the irony of this, of course, is the Trump administration attacked the Obama administration for the deal that was done because money was given to Iran,
FISHMAN: A 100 percent, right. And I think what we're showing right now is that Iran, by the way, just like China last year, when they weaponized rare earths against the United States, sort of put us on the back foot. Iran, by weaponizing their control over the world's most important energy chokepoint, the Strait of Hormuz. We're on the back foot and now we may actually have to accept a deal, that's worse than the 2015 nuclear deal.
[20:30:44]
COOPER: Karim, do you see a diplomatic solution to the Iran war more or less likely tonight than a week ago?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, AMERICAN POLICY ANALYST AT THE CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: No, because I think I understand that statement from President Trump in which he alluded to potential military decimation of Iran. I think in some ways that was a signal for China to say, listen, if you cooperate and exercising leverage over Iran to end this conflict, great. If not, we may be forced to go back to military conflict, which is going to further the price of oil.
So I see both parties, as I've said before, Anderson, want to see this conflict over. But they're very far apart in terms of, you know, what that deal would ultimately look like. Even though, as I've said before, I think we know what the contour of the broad -- contours of that deal will look like.
COOPER: Yes. Karim Sadjadpour, Edward Fishman, Colonel Leighton, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Up next, tech titans, including Elon Musk, traveling with the President, the role they're playing and what both he and they might hope to gain by their presence.
Also in the week, my exclusive conversation with former Acting FBI Director Brian Driscoll will be joined by the U.S. senator who questioned FBI Director Kash Patel before and after Patel fired Driscoll.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:08]
COOPER: Today, the world's richest man did a thing, Elon Musk, acting more like a tourist than a visiting dignitary in Beijing. He is, however, very much the latter, part of a visiting American army of brand-name business leaders, many of them in the tech sector.
Some perspective now on why they were there and what they hope to get. Joining us for that is CNN Contributor and Technology Journalist Jake Ward. So, Jake, how significant is Elon Musk's presence in China, both in terms of his relationship with President Trump and also what it signals for the world economy?
JACOB WARD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, Anderson, if you are the world's richest man, spending the days it takes to get to China, I mean, that's literally the most expensive commodity anyone on earth has to sacrifice. And so it means something that he is there. It also means something he's not back in Oakland, where I am, where he's awaiting the verdict in the Sam Altman lawsuit.
The fact that he's there really has to do with, you know, for all of these CEOs in attendance, Xi Jinping does not need them as much as they need him. At the moment, I mean, Musk himself is in a position of trying to get so many different things out of China at a time when his companies are in a way working against one another.
China is panicked about Starlink. It doesn't like the satellite communications company that he makes, even as he's trying to buy solar panel manufacturing equipment to the tune of about $3 billion from the country. And China, you know, has a nationalized policy. It can make a choice about all of this stuff.
And I would argue that Musk isn't even the most exposed there. I mean, poor Tim Cook entirely owes his business to China. And so all those people on that dais there are not there for the photo op. They're not there for the chicken. They are there because their companies need them to be there.
COOPER: I wonder what you make of Elon Musk's behavior that we're seeing, you know, taking pictures with Tim Cook, walking around with his young son. There's no way to really decipher, obviously, what's going on on his mind. But during a trip like this, what would he be doing? Who is he would he be meeting with?
WARD: This is my favorite one, right? He's mugging for the camera as he's taking a photo with Tim Cook there, right? I mean, yes, I don't know about you. Like, when I take international trips and I wind up at that dinner at the end of it, my head is on the table.
This guy's pretty animated for someone who's just been traveling the world. And that's a very different guy, I would say, than the person that I watched on the stand in Oakland, who's biting his lip, clearly displeased to be there. And so, you know, again, I think he is a man moved by many things.
He also brought his son with him. That poor kid had to make the trip as well. And, you know, perhaps that's a move to ingratiate himself with the Chinese. It's a famously family culture, you know, a family friendly culture. But boy, it's a -- that's a long trip for a little kid. And Musk is a -- he's not the typical tourist dad, I would say, Anderson.
COOPER: Trump spoke of the CEOs traveling with him as paying respects to China. How much do you think the interests of those companies and those CEOs align or not align with President Trump's goals for the trip?
WARD: Well, I mean, Tim Cook is in an impossible position, right, because he saw, you know, $3 billion worth of tariff payments come out of Apple because of Trump's tariffs. And then even when the Supreme Court struck down those tariffs, he's been hit with new ones that in a way put his company in an entirely worse situation.
At the same time, he needs China to make everything for Apple. That's why that company has the incredible profit margins it does. So that's an incredible problem.
Jensen Huang is there. He's the CEO of Nvidia, which makes all of these cutting edge AI chips. You know, he said in an interview recently that the market share that he had in terms of selling AI chips to China went from 95 percent to zero because of President Trump's policies.
And so in as much as these guys are all there in part to, you know, pay fealty to Xi Jinping and absolutely need to please that guy, they also have to please Trump. And I'm sure in the time that they have with him on Air Force One, they're going to be working him as hard as they can.
[20:40:05]
COOPER: Jake Ward, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Coming up next, the senator who FBI Director Kash Patel told under oath he would not carry out politically motivated firings if confirmed to, it's a follow up to my exclusive conversation with former Acting FBI Director Brian Driscoll, who Patel fired.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Follow up to my exclusive conversation with former FBI Acting Director Brian Driscoll and a conversation with a member of the Senate committee who confirmed the man who fired him, FBI Director Kash Patel. The firing came last August after Driscoll had spoken up for long serving FBI agents who were being targeted for firing or forced retirement by the Department of Justice.
In the course of our conversation, Brian Driscoll, who's widely revered inside the FBI, served nearly 18 years there, described the demands on him to turn over names of thousands of FBI employees who had been involved in investigations of the President on January 6th.
[20:45:06]
He revealed for the first time the efforts that he and others made to ensure that fairness and due process were observed. Days before he was fired, he met with FBI Director Patel and Driscoll was defending a long time FBI agent who'd been the subject of a MAGA podcaster's accusations.
Patel, according to Driscoll, wanted the agent fired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN DRISCOLL, FORMER FBI ACTING DIRECTOR: Patel essentially said that I should know from sitting in that chair. That you can't save everybody. I disagreed. I said that this is wrong. You could potentially be deposed for this in the future.
And that they gets -- this is worth standing up for. And he essentially reflected that his job depended on him making this happen and that anybody involved in these investigations that they identify are probably going to get fired as well.
COOPER: In the complaint, it says Patel stated that you needed to understand that the FBI tried to put the President in jail --
DRISCOLL: Correct.
COOPER: -- and he hasn't forgotten it. That's a quote.
DRISCOLL: Yes. It was the first time he articulated it that bluntly to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The account paints a very detailed picture of political retribution, something at his confirmation hearing that Kash Patel, under oath, committed to not carrying out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: So here's your first test. Will you commit that you will not tolerate the firing of the FBI agents who worked with the special counsel's office on these investigations?
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: Senator, I appreciate the time to visit with you --
BLUMENTHAL: It is a yes or no answer. And it is your first test.
PATEL: Senator, every FBI employee will be held to the absolute same standard and no one will be terminated for case assignments --
BLUMENTHAL: And I'm not going to accept that answer, because if you can't commit that those FBI agents will be protected from political retribution, we can't accept you as FBI director.
PATEL: All FBI employees will be protected against political retribution.
BLUMENTHAL: They deserve --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You went on to say they deserve to be protected against Trump retribution. About eight months later, Director Patel was back before the Judiciary Committee. Here's how that went.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLUMENTHAL: I'm not going to mince words. You lied to us. In the short time that you've been FBI director, you've presided over a rash of retaliatory firings. Three FBI agents have recently sued you. They are FBI agents with 60 years between them of distinguished service.
I'm going to ask you, has anyone from the White House contacted you about personnel decisions?
PATEL: I completely disagree with your entire premise that I have lied or misleading the FBI. If the only way people get terminated at the FBI is if they fail to meet the muster of the job and their duties, and that is where I will leave it. And you accusing me of lying is something I don't take lightly, but I'm not going to get into a tit for tat with you.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, let me just ask you to answer my question. Has anyone from the White House contacted you about personnel decisions?
PATEL: Generally speaking, we always discuss with the White House OMB during the budget process how many personnel we need, who we need, where.
BLUMENTHAL: Answer is yes.
PATEL: For budgetary purposes and real life --
BLUMENTHAL: You've been directly to be fire people, agents, because they participated in investigations of the President. PATEL: I don't receive directions to do that.
BLUMENTHAL: Has anyone suggested --
PATEL: I make the decisions.
BLUMENTHAL: Has anyone asked you to do it? The best information is yes, you've taken suggestions and directions from the White House in firing qualified agents.
PATEL: Any termination at the FBI was a decision that I made based on the evidence that I have as a director of the FBI, and it's my job and I'm not going to shy away from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Senator Blumenthal, a Democrat from Connecticut, joins us now. He is shying away from actually answering your question, your repeated questions. Brian Driscoll in his lawsuit and also in his interview with me, he talks about how Emil Bove, who at the time was the acting deputy director of the Department of Justice, said to him face to face that he was under pressure from Stephen Miller over at the White House, the deputy chief of staff during the transition, to have what's happening, the DOJ, happen at the FBI in terms of firings.
BLUMENTHAL: You know, Anderson, my takeaway from your absolutely remarkable interview with Brian Driscoll is he's the kind of agent I wanted to have at my side when I was the United States attorney in Connecticut trying federal criminal cases. He's the epitome of the best in the FBI.
If I test his credibility against Kash Patel, there's no question who gets my vote on who's telling the truth.
[20:50:04]
And the fact of the matter is not only did Kash Patel fire Brian Driscoll, he fired other senior leadership, particularly in the counterintelligence unit, which is supposed to protect us from Iran subterfuge and sabotage and terrorist attacks, which is a threat to our national security. So it's not only personal and professional, it's also a matter of national security.
And yes, the FBI is a lesser organization. It has been degraded because of the politicization and the retribution have taken place. And it has been at the direction of the White House because Donald Trump thinks the FBI was out to get him.
Now he's out to get the FBI. And when Kash Patel ducks those questions, as you rightly observed, he's just providing cover for President Trump, who wants to, in effect, purge, literally purge the FBI of anybody involved in the January 6th investigation or anybody involved in the investigation.
COOPER: And the point that Brian Driscoll has made repeatedly and which is just factual, which is that FBI agents are assigned to these investigations. It's not like they're all sitting around choosing which investigation they're working on, just as some FBI agents are probably working on ridiculous investigations right now that they don't want to be working on, but they're, you know, they're assigned to it.
The idea that they would be summarily fired without the normal due process, without the normal -- I mean, there are processes in place for very good reasons at the FBI about how you fire people.
BLUMENTHAL: And that's the point that I think Brian Driscoll made to you so well, that these agents deserve due process, the kind of process that comes with any kind of disciplinary or personnel action. And you're absolutely right, these FBI agents do not choose their investigations. They are chosen to do investigations based on their experience and their technical expertise.
These agents who investigated either Arctic Frost, Donald Trump's retention of classified files, or the January 6th assault on the Capitol were assigned to do it. And now they are victimized simply for that reason.
COOPER: Yes. Brian Driscoll said that in the meeting days before he was fired by Kash Patel, in the meeting with Kash Patel, that Kash Patel said, look, Donald Trump hasn't forgotten, you know, all these investigations, you know, these words essentially not word for word, that the President hasn't forgotten essentially that there was retribution.
BLUMENTHAL: That is not only his perception, but it is widely the perception in the FBI. And that's why a lot of the agents are leaving, some of the best are leaving. Many of --
COOPER: That's the thing. I mean, a lot of the agents who have been targeted and who have left are the best of the best. They're the most conscientious. They're the ones who were selected for very difficult investigations.
BLUMENTHAL: And the reason is, Anderson, that the FBI has an ethos, a culture of being above politics. If you select or fire agents because of their political views and you target them, it means that eventually you're going to target others in the general public for prosecution using those agents that share your political views.
COOPER: Senator Blumenthal, I appreciate it. Thanks for being here.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
COOPER: Up next, two-time NBA All-Star Isaiah Thomas on the loneliness of grief. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:58:00]
COOPER: A new episode of my podcast on grief called All There Is is now available. You can find it online by scanning the QR code on the bottom of your screen or wherever you get your podcasts or go to CNN.com/AllThereIs. My guest this week is two-time NBA All-Star Isaiah Thomas, who experienced the death of two of his three sisters.
His oldest sister LaQuisha died in 2024. His youngest sister Chyna was killed in a car accident in 2017. On the podcast, Isaiah Thomas shows really just incredible courage in his willingness to speak about grief, about his losses and what he's learned on his journey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISAIAH THOMAS, TWO-TIME NBA ALL-STAR: I didn't know what mental health was. Where I'm from, especially males don't really speak about those things. I was 100 percent depressed and I didn't even know it.
COOPER: I never cried until like five years ago. I buried all that stuff. I just moved forward and all that stuff catches up with you if you don't turn to it in some way.
THOMAS: I understand that fully. When I was able to really start to open up and speak to people about these things that everybody goes through, I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of just learning how to live with it. And I still have my days where I'm super emotional.
Like the other day with my mom's birthday, her 60th birthday. She just wished my sister was here. That just hurts because I'm usually the guy that can help and I can't help.
She has her emotions. I have mine. It just sucks, but knowing you can go through it with somebody else, whether it's a stranger or family, it helps.
You said you were just trying to move past it and I felt like I was doing that too. When I started to reach out to other people who've been through these things, man, it helped in so many ways. Obviously, it didn't bring them back, but it's made things a little smoother --
COOPER: Yes.
THOMAS: -- when times are really tough. And I got one more sister left. I pray to God nothing happens to her because I'm just not trying to do things on my own.
COOPER: Yes.
THOMAS: And that's probably the hardest part.
COOPER: Yes.
THOMAS: It's just being lonely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can listen to more of my conversation with Isaiah Thomas. It's wherever you get your podcast or at CNN.com/AllThereIs. It's really an awesome interview. He's not a big sports guy, but he is incredible.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
