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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Source: Acting DNI Chief Has Started Firings at Agency; Interview with Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT); U.S. Temporarily Lifts Sanctions on Iranian Oil; Sources: Second Note Sent To Media Outlets Said Guthrie Died; Steve Wonder On The Life & Legacy Of Clive Davis. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired June 22, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is a facility that has been ground has been broken on by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, a facility to create more of these sterile flies that would essentially help control the population of the new world screwworm. But that facility won't be online until next year -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Ed, thank you very much. And thanks so much to all of you for joining us on this Monday AC360 starts now.

[20:00:33]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening from the Newsroom, a lot of breaking news tonight, starting with the Intelligence Agency set up to help prevent another 9/11, the Office of National Intelligence.

CNN has learned that this man, Bill Pulte, the Acting Director of the ONI, has started doing what he was picked by President Trump to do, which is namely fire people. The President named him to the position despite his having no experience in Intelligence or National Security. He's a housing official with a sideline in making mortgage fraud allegations against the President's political enemies.

And now, according to a source familiar with the matter, he's wielding the ax against public servants charged with keeping us all safe against real adversaries. CNN's Alayna Treene joins us now from the White House with more. So, what else do you know about these firings?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, Anderson, we don't know much more about the specifics of who is actually facing this first round of major cuts, and also how many he's looking for in this kind of first tranche of this. But what we do know is that Bill Pulte, as you mentioned, now the acting Director of National Intelligence. He has been planning for potentially hundreds of cuts to the office of the Director of National Intelligence.

Now, a source familiar with the matter did tell CNN that the National Counterterrorism Center and the National Counterintelligence and Security Center are expected to be the most hard hit. But I will say this isn't that surprising. We do know that the President has really given Pulte a directive here, which was to essentially go in to this agency and clean House. The President, I've had many conversations with White House officials about this, he really views this agency, which, again, was created after 9/11 to really coordinate and oversee many different intelligence agencies, including the CIA and the FBI.

The President doesn't believe that it's that important. He really gets a lot of his intelligence from the CIA Director, John Ratcliffe. And he also believes that many people at ODNI are leakers. And apparently a part of the so-called deep state. And this is actually what one source told our colleague, Kristen Holmes, about the cuts today.

They said the Deep State firings have begun. So, look, I will say as well, it was clear that Pulte was eager to get started on these massive layoffs. We know that he actually started or he went to the office last week. He showed up a day early. He was supposed to start on Friday, went in on Thursday and started asking for lists of all the employees, their names, what they did because he wanted to get started on this.

And just one other thing that was sort of notable to me was that we actually saw Pulte in the Oval Office today when the President was in there signing these executive orders. A bit different, really, from what I'd been hearing really for the past year and a half, Anderson, about Tulsi Gabbard, who Pulte is replacing, that her lack of presence, her absence was always kind of notable.

Pulte is someone, many people in the West Wing actually don't really get along with him. But he got the job because the President, he has a direct line to the President, the President likes him. He has close proximity to him. He talks to him a lot. And I think it's clear that Pulte was given a directive by the President. Everyone I've spoken with believes that he is going to do exactly what Trump wants him to do in this case.

COOPER: Alayna Treene, thanks very much.

One place the President is beefing up intelligence gathering is at the site of one of his pet projects. Take a look, this is one of at least a half a dozen surveillance cameras that went up this afternoon around the reflecting pool, which is still full of green algae despite no bid contracts to rehab it all. The freshly coated blue bottom of the reflecting pool is coming up in chunks.

Now, the President is claiming that vandals have been cutting into the pool bottom and says he's got the pictures to prove it, pictures he is not showing. More on all of this now from CNN. Sunlen Serfaty.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to have something you're going to be very proud.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: (voice over): Of appealing bottom --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's still not fixed and it is it's disappointing.

SERFATY (voice over): Arrests for alleged vandalism. A high-profile lawsuit and one $14 million green hued pool. The Presidents reflecting pool makeover is now overflowing with controversy.

TRUMP: We did a hell of a job, but everybody's looking at that reflecting pool.

SERFATY (voice over): And yet, 18 days after the pool was filled with water, after the initial renovation, President Trump is now saying the pool will likely need to be shut down and drained again, blaming it on what he says are vandals that have forced a new round of repairs.

TRUMP: I can't help it if somebody goes in with a knife and starts hacking it up. And we also have pictures of it, you know, we have it here.

REPORTER: Will you release the photos?

TRUMP: No at the right time you'll see it. You'll see it in court.

SERFATY (voice over): Administration officials say that police have made several arrests at the reflecting pool, alleging vandalism.

TRUMP: And I understand they've arrested five people, and they have another five people that are under investigation.

SERFATY (voice over): Three-time U.S. Olympian David Hearn says he was arrested after touching blue material, partially detached from the bottom of the pool.

DAVID HEARN, THREE-TIME U.S. OLYMPIAN: I took my left-hand glove off and reached down into the water and sort of felt the end and bent it around a little bit.

SERFATY (voice over): Hearn denies vandalizing the pool and says he was cited with destruction and defacing government property and disobeying a government employee.

JEANINE PIRRO, WASHINGTON D.C. U.S. ATTORNEY: There are several citations that have been handed out to individuals, and these are cases that will be prosecuted to the full extent.

[20:05:41]

SERFATY (voice over): On Truth Social without evidence, the President wrote: They took some form of knife or blade and put a 250-foot-long gash into the beautiful facade of what took so much work, competence and money to build and complete.

He added, "They also poured corrosive and destructive materials into the pool." Today, Trump increased the size of the alleged gash."

TRUMP: Well, let's put it this way, when you have a 350. I think it's 350, not 250. A 350-foot slit from one end to the other

SERFATY (voice over): Tampering with federal property carries a prison sentence of up to ten years in federal court.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've never seen this many National Guards in the National Park area. They came up to me and two other women asking if we touched it, and then just promoting us not to, that we would get arrested or charged with vandalism if we did.

SERFATY (voice over): President Trump and the U.S. Attorney in D.C. have been very clear they intend to push forward to penalize those accused of wrongdoing as much as possible.

SERFATY (on camera): And earlier today, we saw several trailers full of equipment come down to the reflecting pool and start unloading equipment. You'll see some of that behind me. Workers tell us that those are actually six security cameras that will go up and give 360- degree views of the reflecting pool at all times. Meantime, President Trump has convened a meeting with the contractors of this project to talk about the necessary repairs and of course, draining the reflecting pool once again.

Sunlen Serfaty, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Joining us now is Connecticut Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal. He sits on the Homeland Security and Judiciary Committees. Senator, you're pushing for Congress to dig into what is going on with the reflecting pool. You've been very critical about the project. What do you make of the Presidents claims now that there's vandals and somebody slid a hole a lot, you know, a slit with a knife, 250 or 350 feet long.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Anderson, to say that someone somehow got into that reflecting pool and slit 350 feet of it is absurd to the point of really misleading and potentially deceptive. What's happened here almost certainly is shoddy and incompetent workmanship, the result of no bid contracts that have ballooned in size, also a characteristic of all these vanity projects and what's needed is in fact, an investigation. I've begun an inquiry through the permanent subcommittee on investigation into these no-bid contracts.

One of them for millions of dollars going to a campaign contributor who has donated more than half a million dollars to the Trump campaigns or other causes. And that contributor has this no-bid contract for, in fact, a lot of the work to prevent the algae, which is a separate problem from the peeling paint on the bottom. There needs to be an investigation. Republicans should be coming forward rather than enabling this potential corruption.

COOPER: David Fahrenthold from "The Times" has pointed out that it's often the projects that the President is most focused on. When you call his vanity projects, where he's most interested in that, become, that end up being done badly because there is no-bid contracts, because there's so much pressure to get it done to please the President. Everyone around him is just trying to scramble to get somebody to please the President. And the reason there's contracts are bidded out is to get better pricing and also have people compete for quality of work.

BLUMENTHAL: It is a perfect illustration, Anderson. You're absolutely right about the need for competitive bidding. It's the reason why bids are submitted. In fact, secretly submitted separately from each other so that competitors don't know what the other is bidding. And it's long established as a potential cure for this kind of grift or seeming corruption.

Now, the same is true of the ballroom, which has ballooned in price from $200 million now to $600 million. Again, a no-bid contract involved. The President promised that there were going to be all private donations to fund it. Now, they have secretly moved $352 million of tax payer money from the Secret Service to pay for the ballroom, that's our money, taxpayer money that was supposed to go to train personnel equip them provide for better protection for people in public service, and instead it's going to be used for this monstrous gilded ballroom.

Again, no-bid contract potential grift or corruption and at the very least, the appearance of possible illegality.

[20:10:48]

COOPER: I do want to ask you about the firings of the office of the Director of National Intelligence by Bill Pulte, the Acting ODNI. What are you most concerned about at this point?

BLUMENTHAL: Politicizing our intelligence community. You know, I can't emphasize enough how important intelligence is today to protecting our nation. it's been critical to Ukraine. We have extraordinary resources in our intelligence community, weaponizing it for retribution or for political purposes undermines our National Security.

It makes us less safe. It makes all of us potentially vulnerable to the dangers of foreign terrorism, but also domestic violence. And what he's doing in firing people? Obviously, a political agenda in addition to possibly using the information that he has access to for political purposes, that information is highly sensitive and personal in many respects. It's about you and I and surveillance that may have been done in the past is a grave danger to our nation. So, all of it really smacks of political vengeance and retribution.

COOPER: Senator Blumenthal, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Up next, Vice-President Vance, on his way home from talks with Iran as President Trump says, preventing them from having nuclear weapons supersedes the risk of an economic depression. And later, I'll be joined by music legend Stevie Wonder on the life, career and influence of another music legend, Clive Davis, who died today at the age of 94.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:52]

COOPER: For the first time in more than three decades, Iran can sell oil without American sanctions. President Clinton imposed them back in 1995. The European Union broadened them in 2012, and President Trump actually expanded them as well during his first term. Today, though, the administration waived sanctions for 60 days, a move that could deliver Iran $10 billion more in oil revenue over the next two months, according to "The Wall Street Journal". As for what Tehran had to give up at the talks in Geneva to get those billions, the answer is nothing. The waivers were already part of the 14-point Memorandum of Understanding that the President signed last week.

Now, the President did not talk about that today. However, he did say this about where the peace process stands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If Iran doesn't live up to their agreement or if they're not behaving, I will I will do what I have to do. As long as they respect us, we're not going to have any trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The President was also online today suggesting the regime would agree to let international inspectors back in to monitor its nuclear program, quoting him now, everybody is fully aware that Iran will agree to have major weapons inspections in order to ensure nuclear honesty long into the future.

Vice-President Vance said something similar before heading home from Geneva. But he went further, saying the regime had already agreed to inspections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The way that I think about it is very simple, we laid a very good foundation for a successful final deal.

We have the Iranians allowing weapons inspectors, nuclear inspectors into their country for the first time in a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, if in fact that's the case, it could be a breakthrough. Iran says it's not the case, however, but it's chief negotiator in Geneva did say that Tehran has agreed to set up what he called a telephone hotline for preventing and resolving any misunderstandings over shipping through the Strait of Hormuz. A U.S. official tells us the military is now involved in monitoring the fragile cease fire between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon to help verify that both sides are complying with the truce.

Another development increased shipping through the Strait. At least two dozen commercial vessels in the past 24 hours, according to one tracking firm, including 16 tankers. Oil prices fell today, down nearly three dollars, just under $78.00 a barrel, and the President seemed unwilling to risk undoing such progress for anything other than outright Iranian defiance on nuclear weapons. Here's what he said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Are you willing to risk economic catastrophe and strike Iran again?

TRUMP: Well, not the way I'm doing it. It's not going to cause depression.

REPORTER: Yes, but if they don't abide by the --

TRUMP: Nuclear weapon supersedes depression. Depression is really bad. Nuclear weapon will cause depression much more quickly. The way we're doing it, we have the opposite of a depression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Our perspective now from Alan Eyre, former Senior U.S. Diplomat, member of the team that negotiated the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran. Also, Edward Fishman, senior fellow and the director of the Greenberg Center for Geoeconomics, the Council on Foreign Relations, and Barak Ravid CNN, political and foreign policy analyst.

Alan, what do you make of the details emerging from Switzerland?

ALAN EYRE, DISTINGUISHED DIPLOMATIC FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Well, I'm just glad it happened. You know, if a successful deal is equivalent to climbing Mount Everest, what happened in Switzerland is equal to leaving base camp. Okay, so we're at the start of a long, hard slog, but at least were this far.

COOPER: Edward, how do you think the sanctions relief announced today compare to what was in the 2015 agreement?

EDWARD FISHMAN, DIRECTOR, CFR GEO ECONOMICS CENTER: Well, from a pure monetary standpoint, it actually goes beyond what the Obama administration provided to Iran in the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. The JCPOA, the core sanctions relief, was easing sanctions on Iranian oil sales. But critically, the Obama administration did not allow Iran to sell oil in U.S. dollars or to actually sell oil to the United States.

[20:20:27]

COOPER: That's going to bring in a lot more money?

FISHMAN: Oh, significantly more money, because now, you know, if you're a buyer of Iranian oil, you don't have to jump through all these hoops to pay Iran in a different currency. But I think the other key difference, Anderson, is that back in 2015, the Obama administration only provided that key sanctions relief after the international atomic energy agency verified that Iran had implemented its nuclear concessions.

COOPER: They were using that as leverage.

FISHMAN: Exactly, the Obama administration held it in reserve to the very end, not even until a deal was signed. It was until the IAEA had verified that Iran had actually gotten rid of its stockpile of enriched uranium and had gotten rid of a lot of its centrifuges and done additional nuclear concessions. But we're seeing now is the reverse sequence where the Trump administration is providing these key sanctions relief before Iran has made any nuclear concessions, let alone implemented them.

COOPER: Alan, do you think that's a mistake? No, I think it's essential because what's the exigent issue here? It's not Iran's nuclear program, which is not an imminent threat. It's getting the Strait of Hormuz back open as much as possible, as quickly as possible. So, that's the big lift Iran committed to. Let's give them waivers on their on their oil exports and soon were going to have to start talking about the nuclear issue. That's going to be the toughest part but I find it inconceivable, for example, that Iran would have agreed to allow IAEA inspectors this early in the game. That's not a chip they're going to be giving up this early in the negotiations.

COOPER: Barak the fighting in Lebanon obviously remains a key sticking point that almost derailed negotiations this weekend. What more do you know about President Trump's ability to influence Netanyahu, what he decides to do there?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Well, I think for Netanyahu, both the Lebanon part in the Memorandum of Understanding between the U.S. and Iran and the new understandings reached in Switzerland regarding Lebanon, this new deconfliction mechanism between Israel and Hezbollah, with the participation of Iran and without the participation of Israel.

Those are all very bad news for Netanyahu and what I hear from Israeli sources is that in the current time, the Lebanon part of this deal is much more of a concern for Netanyahu than the nuclear part, especially three months ahead of an election when the Lebanon issue is a domestic political hot potato. And I think that the way things are going right now, I think there is, while Netanyahu wants to avoid it, he might not be able to avoid some sort of a clash with Trump over Lebanon.

COOPER: Edward, the Vice-President, has claimed that the unfrozen assets or excuse me, I think the President also did. But the Vice- President claimed that the unfrozen assets would be used by Iran to pay farmers directly to buy products like corn and soy from American farmers. Is that realistic?

FISHMAN: It's plausible. We haven't seen the details yet, though. This is just based on sort of comments that Trump and Vance have made. Certainly, during the Obama administration, there were limitations on how Iran could use its oil proceeds. The thing I would say, though, that makes me a little skeptical, is the license that was issued today for Iran's oil sales. And remember, today's oil sales become revenue, right. And I think just last week, they sold 30 million barrels of oil, which at today's prices are over $2 billion worth of oil. There are no restrictions on how Iran can use the proceeds it's making from selling oil right now.

So, it would be a little odd if yesterday's revenue could only be used to pay farmers in the Midwest. But the revenue that they're earning today from oil sales could be used for anything.

COOPER: Alan, does it, do you find it galling that President Trump has criticized the deal that you and was made under the Obama administration giving money to Iran, and yet the amount of money that Iran is going to be getting from this is exponentially greater?

EYRE: Well, yes, obviously, I mean, the cardinal sin that President Trump made in this regard was pulling out of the JCPOA unilaterally, which was sort of, to a large extent, the first cause that led us to where we are right now. But, you know, we are where we are. And I'm actually pretty happy that President Trump finally realized that he's made a colossal strategic blunder and is taking steps to try to at least fix parts of it, though I don't think --

COOPER: Do you think he's realized that?

EYRE: Yes, I do, I do. I think that enough people have told him often enough that if he doesn't get this Strait open as quickly as possible and as much as possible, then the economic consequences for him and for his party are going to be catastrophic.

COOPER: Barak, what are the ramifications for the relationship between Trump and Netanyahu?

RAVID: Well, I think they are in a very bad place at the moment. I think, I mean you saw --

COOPER: Because, I mean, Netanyahu staked so much on President Trump, he was all-in.

[20:25:18]

RAVID: Yes, and by the way, both of them were because they went to this war together. They went to the war and they worked together during the war last year in June and then this time they really went to this war together. But the more the war continued, it was clear that both their National Security interests and political interests are going to diverge. And they did and it's ugly. And everybody can see that. And Netanyahu is in a place where, on the one hand, if he clashes with Trump right now ahead of an election, that's not good for him. On the other hand, if he works with Trump and does what Trump asks him, it's even worse for him politically.

So, I think that we are really going towards something that could get much, much uglier in this relationship between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu and this this relationship have already seen some ugly moments.

COOPER: Alan, you've said that it's not realistic for the Vice- President to continue being involved in day-to-day negotiations. Marco Rubio is heading over there. Who do you think will end up doing this, and will there be experts involved?

EYRE: That's a great question. Here's what's lacking now and what we need. We need someone who has day to day control of the portfolio. Doesn't need to be a nuclear scientist, doesn't need to be a sanctions expert, but needs to have a granular working knowledge of nuclear issues, sanctions issues.

During the Obama administration, we had Wendy Sherman and Bill Burns, who did phenomenal jobs in terms of mastering what they needed to know so that they could, you know, sort of play all 88 keys of the bureaucracy because that's what you need. You need someone who's very good wielding the full power of the U.S. bureaucracy in a positive sense who has the granular feel for these issues?

That's not Vance, that's not Witkoff, that's not Kushner. They need to find someone at that level who can be the conductor for all this.

COOPER: Edward, where do you see, what are you going to be watching for in the next couple of weeks?

FISHMAN: Well, I'm going to be watching for whether we actually get anything in exchange for sanctions relief. Because I think to Alan's point, we've now provided all this sanctions relief, not in exchange for anything on the nuclear side, but just to reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

There's a bet, I think, that Trump is implicitly making that this show of goodwill, even though we are now releasing our leverage on Iran, will be enough for the Iranians to come around and actually do some things on the nuclear program.

COOPER: Barak, how is it playing in Israel when the President says that, you know, this new regime is maybe less radical or seems less radical than the previous regime in Iran?

RAVID: Well in one word, it plays good. In two words, it plays not good. You know, people, I think especially Netanyahu and the Israeli government, they don't think that this regime is less radical in any way. They don't believe this regime. And by the way, I don't think neither should we. We hear a lot of things from the Iranians.

You know, sometimes I feel we take it, you know, too seriously. The Iranians just, you know, said yesterday, all day that they walked out of the talks and they didn't engage in negotiations and issued those statements while sitting in the same room with the Vice-President of the United States.

So, you know, on the one hand, I think that those who support this deal shouldn't think that there's some sort of a new, moderate regime in Tehran. And on the other hand, those who criticize this deal or criticize Trump shouldn't take everything that comes out of Tehran face value.

COOPER: Barak Ravid, Alan Eyre, Edward Fishman, thanks so much.

Coming up next, a stunning and sad new development in the abduction of today's show anchor Savannah Guthrie's mom, Nancy.

And later, Stevie Wonder joins us to remember and celebrate Clive Davis, who helped discover and nurture the careers of so many music makers. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:33:30]

COOPER: There is breaking news tonight on today's show. Anchor Savannah Guthrie's mom, Nancy, who was kidnapped from her Tucson home back in February. Multiple law enforcement sources now confirm that one of the notes connected to her disappearance, which was received not long after she was taken months ago, said that Ms. Guthrie had died shortly after her abduction.

CNN Chief Law Enforcement Intelligence Analyst John Miller has -- joins us for more on that. So this was a second note, which was reported on the Time. We didn't know the details of it. Savannah Guthrie had put out a statement about it, responding to it. What have we learned now about what it said?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So we have known since the night that that note was being dealt with by the Guthrie family and the FBI what it said, which is the second note said basically it wasn't intended to work this way, but in the course of the kidnapping, some things happened. And Nancy Guthrie is dead and that it wasn't intentional.

The note wasn't an apology, per se. There was a tone of remorse to it, meaning they didn't mean to kill her, according to the author of the note. The thing that makes the note significant is it came from the same electronic source as the first note, which demanded the ransom, a very different tone. That note the week before, which is we have Nancy Guthrie. We want $4 million to this Bitcoin address.

If it's not done by Sunday, it goes up to $6 million. After that, we're going to have to do something drastic, which was clearly a threat. This note was she died a couple of days after the kidnapping while she was being held.

[20:35:07]

COOPER: And why did law enforcement want to keep that private for so long?

MILLER: Well, this is really interesting, Anderson, because both of these notes went to local TV stations in Tucson. And at the request of the FBI, both those stations and CNN and at the request of the family, kept the contents of the note confidential while they worked on two things.

One, verifying that they believe the notes were from the actual kidnappers. And two, investigating whether the claim in the second note that she had passed away was true. Now, we don't know that for certain, despite the family's efforts and that kind of coded language and that communique, where they said, we want to -- we want -- we got your message and we understand. But we want, you know, we want to -- we want Nancy to be -- to come back to us.

COOPER: I just want to remind viewers what Savannah Guthrie said after this note was received. Let's take a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: We received your message and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So we now understand more of the meaning of that. How were authorities able to conclude that this was legit? Do you know?

MILLER: The first note, which comes from the same source as the second note, had certain details about the home, about where items were placed, not just the kind you could find on the Internet by looking for pictures of Nancy Guthrie at home, but where certain items were placed that night and other details that made the FBI ultimately conclude that that was the legitimate note.

The second note came from the same place and basically said, you're not going to hear from us again. You know, our business is done. Sorry it worked out this way.

COOPER: Yes.

MILLER: And the investigation --

COOPER: Yes.

MILLER: -- is still very much alive. There is no particular leading suspect. There's no key person of interest. But that said, a lot of work is being done on the video that's been collected on cellular traffic in the area, on other leads. And frankly, this coming out now, even though it came out from a leak in a different publication, frankly, they think it may stir the pot because one human tip from someone who actually knows --

COOPER: Yes.

MILLER: -- could advance the case a lot faster than what they're doing right now.

COOPER: John Miller, thanks very much.

TMZ has also been close to this story from the start, receiving communications from people claiming to be involved or claiming to know who he is. I spoke with executive producer Harvey Levin just before airtime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Harvey, can you just walk us through what you posted about today, about the alleged ransom note received by TMZ and why you posted that?

HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, TMZ: Yes, we didn't post the ransom note, but we did receive the first one, along with two local television stations in Tucson. And I know the FBI believes that to be real. They worked with us for weeks with our I.T. team trying to find out who these kidnappers were. And to no avail, they were not able to crack the email.

What I found interesting is on the heels of getting that, we started getting emails from a guy who said he knew the kidnappers and that he knew where Nancy Guthrie was, he knew where the kidnappers were, and he wanted one Bitcoin in return for the information. Interestingly, the person who sent us that series of emails also said at one point around the same time frame that time was no longer of the essence.

And that really piqued my interest, because, you know, if it was a scam where this person was saying, I'll tell you who the kidnappers are and where Nancy Guthrie is, why would you take away the urgency? And it just at least made me think that this was legit.

And so we had ongoing contact with the FBI during all of this. And about a month ago, I called the contact person that I had over the FBI. He was always very responsive and just said, look, this case has clearly gone cold. And I've just had this nagging feeling that this person who has been sending us these notes saying, I can tell you where she is and who the kidnappers are, that I always felt that this person was legit.

And I said, look, if we do a documentary and we actually give that person a Bitcoin, you know, if it's a scam, you don't lose anything. But if it's real, maybe this could be a meaningful lead. And so, we didn't want to get in the way of their investigation. And I asked him, could we do this? I mean, would it interfere with you?

[20:40:03]

And he said he thought it was interesting. And he said he would run it up the flagpole and get back to me. I had one more conversation with him where he was noncommittal. And they've just ghosted me and I've called him about six times. And I just found that really interesting because the FBI really was on this and they really want to solve the case.

But I just found it really interesting. There's something about this guy who sent these emails that must still intrigue the FBI, because the fact that we've just suddenly been ghosted, I thought was unusual.

COOPER: Are you still thinking of doing that, even if the FBI doesn't say yes?

LEVIN: No, because I -- you know, look, I don't know whether we would unwittingly interfere with the investigation. And the only way we would do this is if they would consent to it. So, you know, we were waiting. But without that, no.

COOPER: Harvey Levin, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

LEVIN: Sure, Anderson.

COOPER: Up next, I'll be joined by Stevie Wonder to talk about the life and legacy of legendary music producer Clive Davis.

And later, President Trump seemed to announce the resignation of British Prime Minister Keir Starmer even before the man himself was able to mourn that turmoil inside America's closest ally.

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[20:45:30]

COOPER: Well, the music world lost an icon today, legendary producer Clive Davis. In his seven decades in the business, he either signed or nurtured superstars like Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, Alicia Keys, Bruce Springsteen, Jennifer Hudson, Billy Joel, Janis Joplin, Aerosmith, The Grateful Dead, just to name a few. Davis' family released a statement that read, in part, "He discovered, mentored and championed the greatest artists in modern music history, leaving an indelible mark on culture that will endure for generations."

I'm honored to welcome a great musical artist, one of the greatest, and friend of Clive Davis, Stevie Wonder, joins me now. Stevie, it is good to see you. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. And I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

What is going through your mind tonight as you think about Clive Davis?

STEVIE WONDER, SINGER-SONGWRITER, MUSICIAN: You know, it's a horrible thing to say, but it's like, we're losing the best, and we're keeping the worst. So I don't necessarily get that. But what I will say about Clive is that he was a great friend.

When I turned 21, one of the people that I went to to speak with was Clive Davis. And he invited me to go see Chicago at a concert. And we then had dinner. We talked about the possibility of being with him. Ultimately, things worked out that I ended up staying with, you know, Motown, with Berry Gordy. But it never changed our connect, our communication.

I remember once when I was working on "Songs the Key of Life," I brought it over to let him hear it, see what he thought. And he played some of Whitney's stuff to me, let me get my feedback. And so we just had a great communication, a great relationship.

And probably the thing that I love most is that when you think about Clive, you think about the parties and celebrations that he had, the nights before the Grammys, he would honor various artists. And that's just a wonderful thing. I think that we need that energy. We really do.

In a time of mistrust and fakeness, he was a very real person. And we will all miss him tremendously.

COOPER: What do you think it was about him? I mean, artists are, you know, if you -- an artist such as yourself or Whitney Houston or somebody who has this extraordinary gift, this incredible talent, a lot of artists, what do they get from a Clive Davis? I mean, what does that kind of working relationship, what does it add to them? What does he bring to the table that the artist -- that helps the artist?

WONDER: He, I think, gave them unconditional appreciation for their talent, for their gift. He would go through any windows, any doors, any places to get them heard. It wasn't about, you know, we can't play them on this station or we can't this.

You know, it was as the world should be. It should be color free. I think the worst thing about people in this world is that you let your vision blind you. And when I say that, we have so many examples of how people are doing that more and more. And this is why we have the divide based on something we really have no control over.

But he, with having an appreciation for music, for talent, he could feel it. And he invited -- he welcomed the greatness of those artists that he's discovered.

COOPER: He obviously had a very close relationship with Whitney Houston. You and Whitney, you wrote a song for her, "We Didn't Know." And you performed -- you sang it together with her. I think you produced it as well. God, she is so missed too.

I mean, you can't help thinking about -- I mean, Clive not here. You think back on Whitney and all that she has missed out and all that we have missed out on her incredible talent.

[20:50:03]

WONDER: We, unfortunately, have lost some great talents. And so I just hope that someone will pick up the mallet and begin to really understand that in the time of something fake like A.I., we're trying to create music and all that, we need the real essence of the truth. And the gift of music and the gift of song is something that has a natural life that no one can really imitate or duplicate.

COOPER: Is there a particular song --

WONDER: And as well, you can't --

COOPER: Sorry, go ahead.

WONDER: Go ahead.

COOPER: No, is there a particular song or melody you associate with Clive or with Whitney or -- that you've been thinking about?

WONDER: You know, I wanted to play this at the end of us talking, so we can do it now.

COOPER: I mean --

WONDER: Because --

COOPER: I'm never going to say no to you playing any time.

WONDER: It goes like --

(SINGING)

COOPER: Man, that's amazing. I love it.

Do you -- what is it like to have -- do you think in music? I mean, when something happens in your life, when, you know, whether it's Clive dying or just some events happen in your life, do you relate them to music? Maybe a dumb question, but --

WONDER: Well, actually, it isn't, because we are still painting from the loss of someone who's been with me for 18 years, Lamar Mitchell. He's a great talent, a great arranger. And on the 1st of June, we lost him. But, I mean, you know, you have people that are around you. You're surrounded with music. You hear it.

You relate to the things that have happened to you in your life, the experiences. So music is as natural as breathing, honestly.

COOPER: And it's always been that way for you, that music is as natural as breathing. Because, I mean, I love music, but it's not something that is natural for me. I wish I had that gift.

WONDER: I think if you think about those various times in your life, the great times in your life, those unfortunate circumstances that happen in life, you can reflect on that moment, that time, and those moments and those times, and you'll think of something that will remind you of it, and it usually will be associated with a song.

COOPER: Clive Davis once said about his ability to pick chart toppers. He said, "I accept it as a natural gift that I never knew I had." How -- is that something you think about when you're writing, when you're producing -- I mean, given the career you've had and all the success you've had, do you still care about where this thing, you know, charts or where -- you know, how many streams it gets? Or for you, is it the music first and all -- and you have to love it, you have to feel it?

WONDER: You know, I always say this, that like Duke Ellington said, it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. And so, it's true today as it were true then, it may be another thing other than swing, it may be hip-hop, it may be some country song, it may be some gospel song, it may be some jazz song, whatever, because you have all these various genres of music.

But at the end of the day, if it makes you feel good, it gives you that something, then more than likely, not only you but others will relate to it. And I think they kind of learned that from, you know, Berry Gordy, who, you know, started Motown. But I remember just how close he and Clive were as well.

[20:55:02]

So, you know, we have and we've had some great people. I think that people, for me, have to remember that if you want to understand the significance of music, remember how many things through music have happened. You think about Bruce Springsteen and the song that he did about what was going on in Minneapolis, and you think of the songs that Bob Dylan has done, and you think of, you know, you go on and on and on, the various songs Marvin Gaye, what's going on. And, you know, those songs have stood the test of time.

COOPER: Yes.

WONDER: My writing happy birthday --

COOPER: And songs can change the world. You wrote your happy birthday for Dr. King's birthday.

WONDER: -- for Dr. King's birthday.

COOPER: You wrote your happy birthday for Dr. King's birthday.

WONDER: Yes, I did. I did. Because I believe that it was something that was meant to happen. And, by the way, I remember Clive hearing the song and said, yes, that's the way we're going to get it. And we did.

So, you know, I believe in people, but I believe that people must be fed the truth. Not lies, not fakeness, not things that are made up to, you know, to get how many whatever's you get.

COOPER: Yes.

WONDER: I'm talking about real stuff. So I think that it's important for those of music, those in various positions, whether it be spiritually, politically, you know, do the work and do the right thing for the people, because music is not going to go away.

COOPER: Yes. Well, Stevie, you do the work and you tell the truth. And I love you for it, and so many people love you for it, and thank you for talking to us tonight.

WONDER: And I love the fact that we had Clive Davis, who --

COOPER: Yes.

WONDER: -- gave us that same truth. And you know the great artists that he did bring to us.

COOPER: Yes.

WONDER: Thank you.

COOPER: Stevie, thank you. We'll be right back.

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