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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

GOP Pins Convention Hopes on Trump Magic, Some Candidates Stay Away; Trump to Speak at GOP's First-Ever Midterm Convention; Lindsay Clancy's Attorney on Mistrial and Next Steps; Ex-Anthropic Researcher Says A.I. Could Kill All of Us by End of the Decade; Anthropic Responds After Researcher Quits and Warns of A.I. Dangers; Trump to Speak at First-ever GOP Midterm Convention in Dallas; Spanish City Overwhelmed by Thousands of Migrants. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired September 09, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TANK SALEH, VICE PRESIDENT, YEMEN PRESIDENTIAL COUNCIL, SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE (through translator): We told the world that this is an Iranian plan, but no one to Yemenis back then, that this is a battle that would not only affect Yemenis, but the region and international community.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: This is Iran trying to put pressure on President Trump.

TANK SALEH (through translator): Exactly.

ROBERTSON: Are you getting any support from the United States?

SALEH: Just talk.

ROBERTSON: Just talk. How do you feel about that?

(TANK SALEH speaking in foreign language.)

ROBERTSON: Disappointed he says.

Nic Robertson, CNN in the Bab el-Mandeb Strait.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to Nic, and thanks to all of you for being with us. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:44]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom. For the first time ever, the Republican Party is holding a National Convention outside of a Presidential election year. It's a gamble the President, who speaks just about an hour from now, can rally. Otherwise, unenthusiastic Republicans for the midterms.

To that end, he'll be delivering the keynote tonight and be the closing speaker tomorrow as well. And what people have already been calling the "Trump-a-Palooza." There's a potential downside to that as well. Of course, making the

next two nationally televised nights about him makes it about a President with historically low job approval numbers, especially on his handling of the economy and his decision to go to war with Iran, which is why a number of Republican candidates are keeping their distance.

Some citing prior commitments, others family obligations and scheduling conflicts. Several mentioned the $25,000.00 entrance fee, which the party is waiving for vulnerable house incumbents. One such member, Michigan Congressman Tom Barrett, who is not attending, said this when asked whether he was concerned the President's remarks might hurt him at home.

Quoting him now, "I can't control what the President is going to say at the convention, but I can't control where I'm at."

Leaving for Dallas this afternoon, the President was asked about the no shows, and you probably won't be surprised to learn he attacked the reporter who asked him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, several Republicans in competitive races are not coming to the convention. Do you understand why they're deciding not to come?

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Everybody is coming to the convention. Everybody wants to come, but we only want. And the people that are coming -- By the way, we're going to be sold out tonight, just so you understand. Who are you with?

REPORTER: "ABC News", sir.

TRUMP: ABC fake news one of the worst. You are the worst of all in my opinion. The reason that some people are not coming is because we don't have room for 500 politicians. We have room for the ones that have a close race. If they're slightly behind or slightly ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The worst of all, it's a moving target for him. So, there was that, and there was vindication of sorts for Republican candidates worried about the President saying something damaging on the war, which is polling in the 30s. The President all but guaranteed two more months of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think the war will end immediately after the election.

REPORTER: Because --

TRUMP: Because they can't hold out any longer. They're desperate to try and affect the election so that we can get a nice, weak group of people in there and leave them alone and let them have their nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The President also weighed in on a consequence of the war. Oil hitting $100.00 a barrel for the first time since July, and gasoline now, at $4.22 a gallon, which is up $0.07 from just yesterday, and $1.24 since the war began.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, you've been saying for weeks that oil and gas prices are going to come down. Oil is now back above $100.00 a barrel. How do you explain this to Americans who are wondering when prices are going to come down?

TRUMP: Well, I think it's very easy to explain to America. All you have to do is say, will you let Iran have a nuclear weapon? And the answer is no. And they're doing very poorly. Shortly, but right after the election, because they'd like to have it that way. But right after the election, oil prices are going to be tumbling downward. They're going to be tumbling down and we'll get them down.

I think for gasoline. We'll get them below $2.00 a gallon.

REPORTER: But not until after the midterm?

TRUMP: I think it's going to take a little bit longer than the midterm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So, we have to wait 'till after the election for the war to end and for gas prices to come down. For candidates facing voters already angry about affordability, it's a reminder they likely don't welcome.

And speaking of inflation, the President was also asked about something that happened just before his departure. An emergency slide on his New Qatari gift plane popped open.

Sources familiar with the matter tell us a military aide accidentally deployed it. The President, however, suggested it was part of a preflight safety check.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)]

REPORTER: Mr. President, do you know why they're checking the slide? Is there a security concern at the plane.

TRUMP: No, they were checking it before, and they just wanted to make sure. So, they've, I guess, they've already put it up. They want to make sure everything works perfectly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The old deploying an emergency slide as part of a preflight safety check.

Again, the President is expected to speak just a little past the top of the next hour. Joining us now to start things off, CNN's Alayna Treene.

So, what is the mood like there ahead of the President's speech tonight?

[20:05:01]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN, White House CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, Republicans and Democrats alike have described this convention over the next few days as being a "Trump-a-Palooza" or a Trump Fest. And that's exactly what we've seen. As someone who covered the Presidents 2024 campaign, you know, went to dozens of rallies, covered it very closely. This is very reminiscent of what we heard from his rallies then.

And even the RNC convention ahead of the Presidential, of course, this is not that. This is a midterm convention, but it's all about the President, someone who's not on the ballot in November. But that is actually the point of this.

I've spoken, Anderson, with several of the President's political aides, members of his political operation, both on the inside and outside of the White House. And they told me the goal of this is really to try and energize the fiercest supporters in President's base, essentially, try to increase his popularity.

Obviously, his poll numbers are very low right now. The latest CNN poll puts it at 35% approval, not where they want it to be. And so, this is really about trying to drive out enthusiasm among his fiercest supporters and really those in the MAGA Universe.

So, we'll see if that works. He hasn't yet arrived, I'm told, but is expected to be here around 8:30 Eastern. And his speech tonight, I'm also told they really want him to talk about the issues they think republicans need to hear around the midterms, things like affordability, talking about the economy, reassuring people that they're working on it.

We'll see if he actually stays on message. But a lot of what we've heard tonight is actually really reminiscent of the culture war issues that we heard about in previous campaigns. Even the same Democratic, you know, foils the people that they've been criticizing here are the former President, Joe Biden, the former Vice-President, Kamala Harris, not necessarily the people we know Republicans are going to be going up against in November themselves.

COOPER: Yes, Alayna Treene, thanks so much, appreciate it.

Joining us now is former Trump campaign adviser David Urban. Also, Jonah Goldberg, who's the co-founder and editor in chief of "The Dispatch" and former DNC communications director Xochitl Hinojosa.

So, David, do you think the convention is going to break through and move the needle for swing district candidates, many of whom are currently on attendance.

DAVID URBAN, SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, well, you just answered your own question. Look I don't think you're going to get --

COOPER: Listen, I like to hear YMCA as much as the next guy, but I'm just curious why this is happening.

URBAN: Yes, it's a great -- Listen the playlist is to die for, I'll tell you, okay, but you know, this is geared towards the base. The President believes that he's got a long list of accomplishments and that the communications shop has done a terrible job of messaging it.

And so, I think you'll see from the next couple of nights, and I've been watching today, you get, you know, the kind of the greatest hits, we close the border, were driving down Fentanyl, we're, you know, going to try to reassure jobs. We're keeping immigrants from taking American jobs and H-1B Visas, all these kinds of things that are red meat for the base in hopes that, as Alyana pointed out, the numbers, the President's numbers will increase with the base, right.

So, a rising tide lifts all boats, and so that will be better for every candidate on the ticket. That's the theory of the case. The President hopes to do that and I think he'll do that with some success. I mean, Trump is still in the 80s with the Republican base voters. And if he can remind them why they voted for him in 2024, I think he'll pump those numbers back up.

But is he going to convince people in certain swing districts in Pennsylvania? And, you know, Fitzpatrick or Lawler's District that, you know, he's a changed person and things are going to be better?

I'm not quite sure that they're going to win. But, you know, they're leaning in. If you look at Mike Lawler, he's leaning in on it. Because whether you like it or not, Donald Trump is on the ticket.

COOPER: Jonah, I mean, the President's approval rating in the mid-30s told the American people not to expect an end to the Iran War relief from high gas prices until after the election dismissed the idea that nervous Republican candidates are keeping their distance from this convention. Does it seem like a good idea to you?

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think there's a, it's a plausible theory on paper, Donald Trump's approval rating is weighing down a lot of races. You get his approval rating up; he'll weigh them down less.

In the case of Mike Lawler, I think basically what he's doing tonight is auditioning for a job in the Trump administration after the next election, because I just don't think there are enough Republican friendly Independents in his district to win it for him.

I just want, as a political science scientist nerd, I just do want to say this isn't the convention. They're not doing any party business whatsoever. If this is a convention, then every rally that he had was a convention. But that's fine what we're calling it. I think the real danger for him is that while he might energize some of his base, he's also going to further turn off swing voters, Independents, a lot of Republicans who don't like a lot of the stuff that they're hearing.

And the question is, does he? It's sort of like the salesman who says, sure, we're losing money on every sale, but we'll make it up in volume.

Is he going to gain more from the base than he's going to lose or discourage from the middle? I just don't know.

COOPER: Xochitl, how do you see the politics of this?

[20:10:05]

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you also have to remember that people in his base have also been hurt by his policies, whether it be tariffs, whether it be the war, their prices have gone up. And in my home state of Texas, where actually my sister is running for governor there, where that convention is taking place, one of the things that are on the minds of voters, and especially Rural Texans right now, is the issue of data centers.

They are there are Republicans that voted for Donald Trump that are MAGA, that have data centers being built on their farms, and their farmland is being taken away and their water is being taken away and they're furious about it.

And so, while I do think that this is an effort to motivate a base, at the end of the day, his base is also hurting because of his policies. And if the Republican Party, let's say were like nearing October, is starting, is only focused on their base, less than 60 days out from a midterm election. That is a huge problem for the Republican Party, that they can't actually reach out to and convince those independent and moderate voters that they will also need, in order to win back seats.

And so, this is just, to be honest with you, I think this is a convention to stop the bleeding as much as they can, but it's too little, too late. And I really doubt that Donald Trump is going to talk about things like the economy when you're already hearing, you heard Alayna Treene, they're talking about culture wars. They're not talking about the issues that Americans care about.

So, at the end of the day, I don't think that this helps them. They're not disciplined enough. And I do think that the midterm election, regardless of this convention, is going to be terrible for them.

COOPER: You know, David, to Xochitl's point the you know, Alayna Treene was saying, you know, the hope is he talks about affordability when he talks about affordability, he calls it a scam. Is that something that that is a wise thing to be talking about tonight?

URBAN: You know, look, Anderson, I think the President you'll hear the greatest hits again. You'll hear, no tax on tips. You'll hear all the good things that were done to help really impacts people's pocketbooks.

This was, this was stepped on pretty big, but there was that the moment, the West Wing where the door-dash woman showed up or the grab, I can't remember what, what food delivery service she said, you know, she said, listen, I made $11,000 more last year because of Donald Trump's policies.

I mean, these things really impact people's lives in a positive way. I think you're going to see a lot of those kinds of people brought on stage, not in the primetime hours, but they're on during the day and people are talking about it. And so, I do think that there will be a lot of positive messaging coming forward. And, you know, you get what you're looking for this convention, right?

I mean, we've even got a little John Fetterman tomorrow, I understand, so.

COOPER: I know. That's interesting.

URBAN; So, it's got, we got something for everybody.

COOPER: Yes, and Jonah, I mean, Todd Blanche, the, you know, attorney general is going to be speaking. The DOJ says it's in his personal capacity. That seems like a, I think RFK may be spoke at a DNC convention to introduce a film about his brother and then resigned, I think a week or so later. But does that make sense to you that the attorney general speaking on this thing?

GOLDBERG: Look, I think the appearance of it is terrible. I think he also basically auditioned to get the job that he currently has by saying some terrible things at CPAC not long ago.

So, the ship has sort of sailed with him. I do think look, I mean, I think it was Nietzsche who says the danger of looking at "Trump-a- Palooza" as "Trump-a-Palooza" looks into you, right. And the problem with all of this stuff is this, that the country has an enormous amount of Trump --

URBAN; I missed, I missed that Nietzsche quote, I missed that one.

GOLDBERG: I have to read it in the original German, but it like the country has a lot of trump fatigue. And you have this situation where they're, Democrats want to nationalized election to make a referendum on Trump. And Trump says, I accept your terms. And they're just assuming that they can still run as if they're running against some establishment when they've been the establishment for basically, you know, a decade in some ways, certainly in the Republican Party.

And I just think it's lost a lot of that fire in the belly, transgressive vibe to it. It's just not as cool to be MAGA as it was five or ten years ago for a lot of the voters that they're going after.

COOPER: Xochitl, were you surprised that Democratic Senator John Fetterman made a surprise appearance in a video at the convention?

HINOJOSA: I think that people have known for a while that he is sort of cozied up to Trump a little bit. But I think the reality is, is that what is surprising about it is one thing to agree with Republicans and to work with both sides of the aisle to get things done. And I think a lot of people in red and purple states have to do that in order to keep their seats.

This is something different. You are essentially trying to make the case for the President that they should give the President and his agenda two more years, and potentially four more years when they run again in two years.

And that is just, he is essentially making that case against Democrats and four Republicans. And so, I think that it is, it's honestly very disappointing. My phone was going off from Democratic operatives, not only just disappointed. He can do whatever he wants on policy, but really disappointed in the fact that he is making the campaign case for Republicans when Republicans have hurt so many people.

[20:15:22]

COOPER: Xochitl Hinojosa, David Urban, Jonah Goldberg, appreciate it. Thanks a lot, guys.

Ahead tonight, you may have heard of the A.I. researcher, Anthropic, who also works at OpenAI, who just resigned. Warning, and I quote "the people building A.I. earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade."

He joins me tonight and his concerns are startling the world is in peril, he warns. You'll hear from him shortly.

Also next, jurors in the Lindsay Clancy trial are speaking out about the one holdout who caused the deadlock. You'll hear from them.

And my conversation with her now nationally famous defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, about the strategy ahead and what sort of deal he may agree to with state prosecutors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would not ever agree to that she do any time in jail. She's too fragile.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:00:30]

COOPER: Jurors are now speaking out following the mistrial in the case against Lindsay Clancy, the former labor and delivery nurse who fatally strangled her three young children.

The defense argued in court that she was not criminally responsible because she was experiencing severe postpartum psychosis. In the end, a single holdout juror among the panels nine women and three men prevented the jury from reaching a unanimous verdict.

An 11 to 1 split that is believed to have favored an acquittal. Here's what two of those jurors have now told local media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLIE FARINA, JUROR, LINDSAY CLANCY TRIAL: We reached him on numerous occasions, the definition of reasonable doubt from Judge Sullivan's instruction. He actually said one day in the end. Well, why don't we have the judge come in and read it again? And we were like, no, we have it in front of us.

JUROR NO. 5: At the end of the day, to not follow that reasonable doubt and to acknowledge that it's there. You morally and legally cannot convict somebody for that. And that was therefore violation of her constitutional rights. And essentially, that is what we are there as a jury to do, is to uphold that constitution and give someone a fair trial of their peers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The next hearing in the case is scheduled for the end of this month. There's no indication at this point whether the Plymouth County, Massachusetts, D.A. is planning to retry the case.

I spoke to Lindsay Clancy's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, earlier.

First of all, how is your client doing?

KEVIN REDDINGTON, LINDSAY CLANCY'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She's doing okay. I mean, she's the same as she's been for, you know, obviously at least three and a half years. She's maintaining, she's at Tewksbury and they're taking good care of her. She's got good medical care, good psychiatric care. She's on appropriate medication. And, she is unfortunately, you know, on one-to-one watch, but she's doing all right.

I'm disappointed, I mean, she absolutely just has such strong feelings for these jurors knowing what they went through seven weeks out of their lives and the work they put into the case. And she just had such great respect and, quite frankly, love for them.

COOPER: I want to play some of the sound from the jury for a woman who has spoken.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUROR: We weren't trying to figure out if she murdered the children. She did, and she's admitting that. We're trying to figure out did she know right from wrong at that time? And with everybody saying she loved her children so much and everything proved she loved her children from her journals, to her mother-in-law, everything proved that she loved her children. So, she had to have snapped.

She admitted he had reasonable doubt and I started filling out the forms. I was so excited. I actually, there were three forms I had to fill out and I started filling them out. I wrote my signature on each one and then he said, but I'm still not going to say that she's not guilty by reason of insanity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Does that prove bias, though? I mean, can't he just we don't know. I mean, unless you do what was in his mind about why he was making that decision?

REDDINGTON: That's where you have the opportunity and request of the judge to have a hearing, which we didn't do. He just declared a mistrial. That's the difference. If you have a hearing, at least there's a basis for someone to determine if there is manifest necessity to declare a mistrial.

Obviously, the statement you just read from the had us listen to from the four lady indicates clearly that they were spot on, on the issues legally and factually.

COOPER: We heard from that, that four, one on the jury. It does seem to, according to a number of jurors who have given interviews, the fact that the state did not present any evidence that your client was a bad mother was very important to the jurors.

REDDINGTON: Sure, it was. Yes, of course it was. I mean Lindsay Clancy was a very, very good citizen, a wonderful wife, a wonderful mother. She did nothing wrong other than go to her doctor.

COOPER: A delivery nurse.

REDDINGTON: Yes, seven to eight years at Massachusetts General Hospital. She never did anything wrong. And then she had the sad situation where she was anxious and had to see a doctor and happened to see this doctor in September of 22, put her on the medications, and she ended up being in a spiral.

COOPER: You said she was overprescribed.

[20:25:03]

REDDINGTON: She was improperly prescribed, wasn't just overprescribed, she was improperly prescribed. She was given SSRIs. There was an underlying of bipolar disorder. You don't put somebody with bipolar on SSRI. They would stop the SSRI, they would not give it time to taper off, and then they would start up another medication.

There were a number of medications that were administered to her over that short period of time from October until January.

COOPER: She also reached out numerous times.

REDDINGTON: Yes, many times. There was one nurse practitioner who was really good. And sadly, she was leaving the practice to go to New Hampshire, nurse practitioner Paul, and other than that, she was just turned away at every step, every step of the way.

She called the suicide hotline twice, turned away, went to the Women and Infant's Hospital in Rhode Island, turned away because of the drugs, and they had to rule out whether or not there was a drug overlay in her situation. She went to McLean Hospital, turned herself into the locked wards

around New Years', was there for five days, played with clay, colored, took walks and that was it, and then left.

COOPER: Tell me what you can say and what you can't say. Does she, is she aware of what she did?

REDDINGTON: She is well aware of the loss of her children. She's well aware of the circumstances of the psychosis. And this is the thing that people have difficulty understanding, is that when you're talking about postpartum psychosis, you can be in a psychotic state.

You can communicate with people, you can talk on the telephone, you can drive a car, you can make a phone call, you can use Google, all of that.

COOPER: Her mother-in-law testified, saying she was a good mom.

REDDINGTON: She was and yes, and thankfully. And she was a marvelous, marvelous individual. She herself was a nurse, labor and delivery. She's the one that turned -- that helped Lindsay to reach out to the nurse that that was, nurse Paul. But then when nurse Paul left and she ended up with another nurse.

COOPER: You've said you are open to some sort of plea agreement, plea bargain.

REDDINGTON: I want to hear what Tim has to say, yes, that's correct. Of course, I'm --

COOPER: The district attorney?

REDDINGTON: Yes, Tim. Well, to me he's Tim, I've known guy for 30 years. So, it's Tim. But yes, Tim Vruz, yes.

COOPER: You want to hear what the possibilities are? What is it for you? The bottom line is no time in prison?

REDDINGTON: No, I would not ever agree to that she do any time in jail. She's too fragile. She's too, she's damaged goods and she does not deserve it.

No, she needs to be treated for her mental health condition. Has to have good physicians and she has to have good medication, that's it.

COOPER: You have addressed President Trump. You have said you would like him to issue a pardon. You, well, no, it's not a federal --

REDDINGTON: It's not a --

COOPER: Why do say that?

REDDINGTON: Because if I was in a situation where the President of the United States is aware of this case, made comments about this case, I could respond in one of two ways. I could try to summons them. I could file a motion to dismiss. I could try to have a hearing. I'm going to get nowhere with that and then I could attack that position, or I could embrace it.

I could say, look, help this young lady out. I know that it's not a situation where it's a federal case where he could, but he does have the Department of Justice behind him. He does have an awful lot of clout.

COOPER: Patrick Clancy, her husband, obviously, there's been a lot of conspiracy theories. You have spoken out about this a number of times. What do you want people to know?

REDDINGTON: I want people to know that this is a young couple that was on top of the world. They had three beautiful children. They had a nice house in a beautiful town. They were respected. Their jobs, and it just went sideways because of the horrible, horrible medical and psychiatric care that they had.

And he stood by her, went to the doctor's appointments with her, stood by her, testified for her in this trial, and also forgave her, which is most important in her mind. That speaks volumes for that man.

COOPER: I've heard you said, I believe, and jurors had talked about the voice recording, the police call that he made, and which obviously the public has not heard and that anybody hearing that would not have any doubts about this man.

REDDINGTON: It was, you know, I've been doing this for 50 years. It was one of the most gut wrenching; horrific things I've ever listened to. There is no actor in Los Angeles or anywhere that could ever emulate that. If there was a movie, it was just horrific. And I think, as I say, that speaks volumes for what this man went through.

COOPER: Kevin Reddington, I appreciate your time.

REDDINGTON: Thank you.

COOPER: Coming up, meet the man who just quit Anthropic, one of the top companies developing A.I. and tonight, his dire warning, he says his former colleagues and other A.I. companies are racing, building technology, even though, in his words, they earnestly believe it could kill us all by the end of the decade.

Later, the migrant crisis and a tiny bit of Spanish territory in North Africa. What life is like for more than 10,000 who entered from Morocco can't move on and won't go back. We'll be right back.

[20:30:25]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Jacob Coxon has left Anthropic sounding the alarm about the dangers of artificial intelligence on his way out the door. The 27- year-old outlined his concerns in a series of social media posts when he quit, writing in part, "The people building A.I. earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade. This is not a marketing stunt. If anything, many executives and senior researchers will couch their phrasing in the press to sound sensible. But I hear the same people express fear privately. No other human activity poses this level of danger."

At least one of his former colleagues agrees.

[20:35:00]

Evan Hubinger, an alignment science lead at Anthropic, shared Coxon's post, adding, Jacob is correct here. We really do earnestly believe A.I. could kill all humans. I personally think it is greater than 10 percent within the next decade. I believe Anthropic is trying its best, but we do not yet have a plan to solve alignment for superintelligence and are not clearly on track to.

An Anthropic spokesperson tells CNN, quote, "We have always been transparent that A.I. will bring enormous benefits and unprecedented risks. To address these risks, we continue to build models with some of the strongest safeguards in the industry."

They go on to say we were the first lab to publish a responsible scaling policy, a public framework dedicated to mitigating catastrophic risks from A.I. models and we continue to aggressively test our models for dangerous capabilities in areas like cyber security and biology, and publish what we learned for scrutiny and research.

For his part, Coxon has worked as a researcher at both Anthropic and OpenAI. He says neither company is acting responsibly. Jacob Coxon joins us now.

Jacob, I appreciate you being with us. First of all, I assume you are saying literally that you believe that A.I. could kill us all by the end of the decade. How would that happen? What would that actually look like?

JACOB COXON, QUIT ANTHROPIC OVER A.I. FEARS: Yeah. So the precise scenario sounds a little bit like science fiction. It sounds like something that's not real, but I think it is frighteningly real and it's easiest to understand it if you think about real things that happened two months ago.

So two months ago, OpenAI agents, AIs, hacked into third-party infrastructure entirely at their own accord and this was like a concentrated hacking spree that they carried out of their own volition. And I think that if you extrapolate into the future, the level of capabilities of these AIs with the same independent volition, they could cause extreme havoc. For example, hacking critical infrastructure, building extinction-level bioweapons. There's a lot of ways that the A.I. could actuate itself in the world.

COOPER: Is it -- specifically, when did your feelings about this technology change? Was it something about the rate of progress that you've seen?

COXON: Yeah. So I think it's really important to just look at the rate of progress and say, for example, in areas like coding or math, a couple of years ago, these AIs were just about helping humans a little bit. They could give you suggestions. Now they're close to replacing them. We still need humans at the moment, but quite plausibly within a year, we'll no longer need humans for doing research in many areas.

Only on Tuesday, OpenAI solved a millennium problem, one of the biggest unsolved open problems in mathematics, purely autonomously using an A.I. And I think what's most scary is if A.I. is used to make itself more intelligent. So you can take an A.I. and give it the problem of A.I. research, just like currently they've given it math research.

You could make it do the tasks that we're currently doing, and then you get what's called an intelligence explosion. The A.I. just gets smarter and smarter with no human involvement necessary until you have a thing that is vastly smarter than humans. And this could be coming very soon.

COOPER: We mentioned a former colleague of yours who currently works at Anthropic, basically endorsing the assessment that A.I. could potentially kill everyone within a decade. In a follow-up post, he said, to be clear, as we say in our latest risk report, I think the risk from present models is low. What I'm worried about is superintelligence arising from recursive self-improvement.

As we've said, it's happening faster than we thought. I assume the recursive self-improvement is what you've just spoken about.

COXON: Exactly.

COOPER: Do you agree with him that the current models, the risk is low, but it's just the speed with which this is now improving?

COXON: Exactly. I completely agree. Right now, there's no risk of extinction. The current models, the worst they can do is maybe hack into something, potentially cause a lot of damages in infrastructure. But there is no -- they're not intelligent enough to outsmart us at the level that would lead to extinction.

I think what's just crazy is to look at the rate of progress, and there is a very real possibility that in the immediate future, these are years that next year, the year after, recursive self-improvement will happen and we'll enter the phase of Evan's post where he argues that there's a chance we could all die. That is coming soon.

COOPER: A lot of the CEOs of these companies will go to Congress and say, hey, we would love regulation. Anthropic in their new statement right now says the world would benefit from the industry adopting a lawful, verifiable way to work together to pace how we release powerful models.

You know the arguments. It's an arms race. If a U.S. company doesn't achieve the best A.I., a Chinese company or some bad actors out there might. Do you believe that these companies actually do want regulation, or is it lip service?

[20:40:00]

COXON: They completely do. This is completely honest. Just in the same way that the response to Evan's post was sort of surprise. It was like, this can't be real. Surely a guy working on this technology can't actually believe there's this level of danger. No, that's completely genuine.

And these people are also completely genuine when they are begging to be regulated. This is a genuine -- they find themselves in this scenario where they're compelled to race towards building a deadly technology. And they would love for some sort of international body to allow them to approach it at a reasonable pace.

They just don't trust that the people around them are going to get there in a safe way. So they feel like they have to race there too.

COOPER: You could have stayed quiet. I mean, I'm sure you had a great job being paid, I imagine, very well. You're obviously incredibly smart, a mathematician. Why did you decide to speak out?

COXON: Well, I initially just decided to leave. I thought I can't be part of this anymore. But then I realized I could probably make some use of it. I did not expect it to go this viral. So what I did is I wrote a Twitter thread out. I wrote it in a Google Doc. I drafted it with a friend. We collaborated.

I had a few -- there were a few friends I discussed the best way of expressing myself with, after I decided to leave. And then I also got some friends to retweet the thing. I was like, let's try to make this a bit viral. But clearly, there was latent demand for this thing to absolutely explode. Like, I've never seen an A.I. safety tweet go this crazy.

I think it's because people saw the cyber attacks in the last couple of months. They're also starting to internalize the rate of progress. People are starting to realize this is real technology. This is not like hype. This isn't going away anytime soon. This is only going to get more crazy.

It's been getting crazier for the last six months. And I think there was that latent understanding of the severity of the situation that meant that this was like sort of a match that lit kind of a flame. Like, I was very shocked by the extent of how quickly it went viral.

COOPER: Jacob Coxon, I really appreciate you coming out and talking to us. Thank you so much.

COXON: Thanks.

COOPER: Still ahead, we'll get a live report from the Republican Midterm Convention in Dallas, where the president is expected to speak tonight and face some questions about party members who decided to skip it. And next, the migrant crisis in a Spanish enclave in northern Africa. Our Clarissa Ward is there, where patience is running thin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:46:25]

COOPER: This beach in Spanish enclave in North Africa is packed with migrants who are living in makeshift camps or on the streets after crossing the border with Morocco in recent weeks. As many as 10,000 are there caught between a home they don't want to return to and a future they can't yet reach.

Today, newly declassified documents revealed the Spanish intelligence services warned in late July of social media posts calling for a mass migrant crossing into the city. CNN's Clarissa Ward has more on the crisis that has left migrants and residents feeling abandoned.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWD: [Foreign Language]

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the streets of Ceuta, anger, desperation and a warning for Europe as residents of the Spanish enclave of 84,000 demand their city back.

WARD: You can see just thousands of people have taken to the streets tonight to say they've had enough, that they want more help to resolve this crisis.

WARD (voice-over): It's been over a month since more than 70,000 migrants poured across the border from Morocco, dozens drowning along the way. The Spanish government says that 90 percent returned within 72 hours, but an estimated 5,000 to 10,000 remain overwhelming this small Spanish territory at the tip of North Africa and igniting a furious debate about immigration.

The political right has seized on Ceuta.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It looks like an invasion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Muslim invasion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an act of war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a battle for the future of our civilization.

WARD (voice-over): And on the streets of this religiously and culturally diverse city, the language has hardened. As we speak with teacher Juan Manuel, we hear a striking chant.

CROWD (through translator): Invaders, expel them.

JUAN MANUEL, CEUTA RESIDENT (through translator): The point is, are they invaders, or are they victims? We are all victims here. They, we are all victims here. But what we cannot put up with is these left radical things that they say. They have more empathy with the immigrants than us. They wouldn't be here.

WARD: Do you think most people here tonight agree with you? Share your views?

MANUEL: All of them. WARD: All of them?

MANUEL: Yeah. They wouldn't be here.

WARD (voice-over): As the light comes up the next day, the scale of Spain's crisis emerges. Residents wake up to find migrants sleeping rough in front of their homes. Outside one of the government-run camps, a large group is waiting.

They've heard rumors that there are free beds and food, but authorities say the camp is full. It is a routine playing out every day. And everyone's patience is wearing thin.

WARD: The police are trying to clear this area outside the main camp, and you can see very quickly just how tense and disorderly it's becoming.

WARD (voice-over): Many of the migrants were lured here by false promises on social media that they would make it to mainland Europe. Spanish authorities have vowed that will not happen.

Just a mile away, the situation is even worse. This is El Trampolin beach. Most of the migrants have ended up here. A handful of showers have been hastily erected.

[20:50:00]

Everything else is makeshift. The majority of the migrants are Moroccan men seeking a better life, but there are also hundreds of women and more than a thousand minors scattered across the peninsula, as well as Sudanese, Syrians, Yemenis and Palestinians. No one has assessed who among them has a claim to protection.

NOLTE BAUER, CHAIRMAN, MISSION LIFELINE INTERNATIONAL: Everything is going super, super slow. So like, the registration just to be acknowledged to be here, to have a chance them to ask for asylum is maybe 30, 40 people per day.

WARD (voice-over): At that rate, it would take months just to write down their names. As German NGO, Mission Lifeline waits for a permit to give medical assistance, it has improvised other services to help the migrants.

BAUER: We use our solar system to charge people's phones so they can get in contact with their families and loved ones.

WARD (voice-over): Further down the beach, we see a man taking photographs of the migrants and talking on a two-way radio. We ask him what he is doing.

WARD (through translator): Are you security or police? No.

EMILIO, CEUTA RESIDENT: It's for the security of my apartment block because they've tried to enter.

WARD: OK. So you are filming -- EMILIO: So the people can see, so the government can see the reality and not what they want to show on the television. They show as if nothing is happening.

WARD: Yes. So you want to show people the reality of what's going on.

WARD (voice-over): He tells us he can no longer walk home with his nine-year-old son. He says the migrants are up late every night, drinking and fighting.

EMILIO: It's been a month, I haven't slept.

[Foreign Language]

EMILIO: [Foreign Language].

WARD: The government has abandoned the migrants and they've abandoned the people of your town.

WARD (voice-over): The emergency in Ceuta is the biggest challenge Spain's socialist leader, Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez, has faced, with many here blaming it on his lenient immigration policies.

Early this month, the government approved $359 million for Ceuta, but there is no clear plan for what happens to the people on this beach. As night falls, a fight breaks out. Spanish soldiers watch from the hill above. They do not intervene.

One week earlier, angry locals set fire to some tents on the beach. Everyone here must fend for themselves. Some are more vulnerable than others.

ABDUL ALI, MIGRANT: Abdul Ali.

WARD: Abdul Ali is deaf. He's just shared this paper (ph) that he carries with him to let people know that he's not able to hear (inaudible) to communicate.

WARD (voice-over): Abdul Ali tells us he was beaten too, but not by a migrant.

WARD: So he's telling us that this is a photograph taken after the police beat him. You can see the marks on his back. Obviously, we can't verify what happened, but this is (inaudible).

WARD (voice-over): Spain's national police told CNN they have received no reports of police violence against the migrants. Talking to Abdul Ali and the others, one thing is clear. Almost no one here is willing to go back, and for now, no one here is moving forward.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Ceuta, Spain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Coming up, back to the Republican Convention where the president has just arrived with his keynote minutes away. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:58:03]

COOPER: We're moments away from the president's keynote speech at the first-ever Republican Midterm Convention in Dallas. The event is meant to prop up Republican candidates in tough House, Senate and governor's races. It's the man who is not on the ballot who's taking center stage tonight as well as tomorrow night, so much so that the convention's unofficial name is Trumpapalooza.

Some candidates are skipping the event. I want to go back to CNN's Alayna Treene at the convention. So what do you think the message from President Trump is expected to be tonight?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Anderson, despite what you said, which is that the president is not on the ballot in November, that is going to be his message, I'm told. He's going to try and convince voters and his supporters here in the room tonight that he is on the ballot, or at least to go and vote like his name is on the ballot. That is the singular goal, really, of this convention.

Sure, he wants to help boost some vulnerable Republicans, but you're actually not hearing from a lot of them over the next two days. Many of them are actually still in their districts campaigning in their own states ahead of their races only in 55 days. The president here is really making this about himself. The goal is to boost his popularity and to try to get his fiercest supporters to get out there and vote on Election Day.

It's all about energizing his base. And so that's part of what he's going to talk about. I'm also told his team wants him to talk about affordability, about the economy, about some of his past accomplishments. It's often that presidents at a midterm election feel like they don't get enough credit for some of the work that they've done.

This is a bit different because Trump himself actually fails sometimes to tout his own accomplishments or at least the kind of accomplishments that his team wants him to be talking about. But that's kind of the message they want him to give.

But all in all, he's trying to convince voters who don't normally get out there for a midterm election to come in November and because of him, not just because of the more local races that they're seeing. So that's going to be the big goal here.

I will note, we're expected to see him shortly, Anderson. There's a box over there where many cabinet members who have spoken or are going to speak tomorrow night are going to be sitting.

[21:00:00]

So watch that closely as well. COOPER: All right, Alayna Treene, thanks so much. Appreciate it. That's it for us. The news continues. "The Source with Kaitlan Collins" starts now. See you tomorrow night.