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Egypt Bombs ISIS Targets in Libya; Netanyahu Urges Mass Jewish Immigration; Imagine a World

Aired February 16, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN HOST (voice-over): Hello, everyone. Tonight on the program, Egypt bombs ISIS targets in Libya. We ask the Egyptian government

is this a start of an extended military campaign?

Also Israel's army chief issues this warning on ISIS as he steps down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENNY GANTZ, OUTGOING CHIEF, IDF (voice-over): ISIS respects nothing but ISIS. It leaves no place to other beliefs. It leaves no place to other

states in the region.

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HOLMES: Good evening, everyone, welcome to the program. I'm Michael Holmes, sitting in for Christiane today.

Egypt retaliating against terror, bombing ISIS targets in Libya hours after that video emerged, showing the beheading of 21 Egyptian Christians. That

amateur video on your screen there showing the aftermath of a strike in the northern city of Dirna.

Now earlier the military sent in F-16 fighter jets to take out various targets. In a show of solidarity, the Egyptian president al-Sisi is

meeting with members of the Coptic Christian community now in mourning after this latest ISIS attack on new territory.

The kidnapped Egyptian workers who went to Libya in search of making a living were seized in Sirte. The oil-rich country is, in effect, without a

government there as rival militias continue to battle it out for power.

ISIS already carrying out attacks there and in effect now controls the town of Sirte. And this raises even more concern about the reach of ISIS, far

beyond its strongholds in Syria and Iraq.

The airstrikes are a dramatic escalation of Egypt's role in Libya. Joining me now on the phone is the chairman of Egypt's state information service,

Salah Abdel Sadek.

And thank you very much, sir, for joining us. More airstrikes today.

How involved will Egypt get in the battle against ISIS in Libya or anywhere else for that matter?

SALAH ABDEL SADEK, SIS CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Michael. Of course Egypt is not getting involved just for the sake of it. It is some kind of -- we

stress that there is a human right (ph) of (INAUDIBLE) self-defense and to the protection of its citizens abroad against any threat.

Until the provisions of the United Nations charter, which these countries individual (INAUDIBLE) right self-defense, there were early this morning

(INAUDIBLE) conducted, airstrikes against sites (INAUDIBLE) facilities of the terrorist organizations of Daish and this was done, again, as action

for the Putin (INAUDIBLE) in which 21 Egyptians were murdered which shows that there is more proof than the terrorist organization of Daish stands

against all values of Islam, liberty and humanism.

HOLMES: It also shows how its tentacles are spreading in particular in this case into a country like Libya. I suppose the question is this: what

real impact can you have from the air alone?

SADEK: Well, as you know, the situation in Libya is very complicated. The situation in Libya is very difficult to (INAUDIBLE) so much or so many of

the trial of getting Libyans together to meetings, to the U.N., to the Arab League. And up until now we're still skeptical about those (INAUDIBLE).

What happened in Egypt is trying really to defend itself against it -- and as you said, Daish is stretching its existence from Syria, Iraq, going to

Libya. Maybe if you have seen the brutal video that they had displayed, which was done in a very high definition and high quality of directing and

there were threatening to reach (INAUDIBLE) to the Italian land, to the Italian beaches. Also they were threatening all Christians of the world

with words that they are making in (INAUDIBLE) Islam against (INAUDIBLE). And I think they will --

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: -- I did see the video and it was sickening as most of their videos are. And you make the point, as we did when we saw it, too, that it

was very much in the style of ISIS, orange jumpsuits, the murderers were wearing black, multi-camera coverage.

You mentioned the talks, the ongoing talks that you say you're skeptical about.

Do you support the U.N. initiative to get all sides talking and reach --

(CROSSTALK)

SADEK: -- on the ground now, Michael, up until now is not very encouraging. We see what's happening on day-to-day (INAUDIBLE) and what we

see and having this new Daish (INAUDIBLE) on the ground. We see how is it. So we are hoping that it helps. We hope that sure it will reach settlement

for our brothers, the Libyan citizens. But so far, I think you might agree with me, it is quite skeptical of what have been (INAUDIBLE).

HOLMES: I've got to ask you, though, if you step back, if you look at the environment in Libya that allowed ISIS to get a foothold and when then

allowed other extremist groups to get a foothold, you can't really talk about Libya today without talking about how it got here. And by that I

mean the actions of the West in helping to overthrow Gadhafi from the air and then basically walking away and leaving it in the hands of the militias

who had come together, the tribes, to fight Gadhafi but have always had their own enmities. And they just returned to it.

Do you think the West bears some responsibility for what we see in Libya today?

SADEK: I wouldn't agree more with you, Michael. This is, to a large extent, it is a job that is unfinished, that ended up. That's why we see

factions of organizations, that they have (INAUDIBLE) of huge weaponry that Gadhafi had gathered through years and years of his rule. And they are now

turning against each other. I am not quite sure whether you see (INAUDIBLE) like what happened in Syria and then Iraq. They are -- there

is a lot to be said (INAUDIBLE) very complicated on the ground of Libya to just determine now there is a government that is unable to control matters

on land.

Yes --

HOLMES: You know, we just had a map up and we'll pull the map up, because the map is important when it comes to my next question.

You see there Libya. During the Iraq War, per capita the most foreign fighters who ended up fighting Americans in Iraq came from Eastern Libya.

That border, that eastern border, is a border that you share with Libya.

The threat is not just in Libya when it comes to Egypt; it is from within. Extremists in the Sinai and elsewhere who have already structure and caused

casualties, if you haven't been able to deal with ISIS sympathizers inside your borders, how will you deal with them in Libya across the border,

especially if it's just from the air?

SADEK: No, we are able to deal with terrorist groups inside Egypt, yes, we have sacrifices that are in there. But these great successes, if you are

talking about what we're going on in Sinai, especially after the decision of closing (INAUDIBLE) that used to be like vein of life to the terrorists

in Sinai, whether through (INAUDIBLE) to get ammunition, weaponry, finance and so on, after the decision of closing these tunnels, they are now really

in the rough kicks of a dying cause, if I may say so.

There is a great success (INAUDIBLE) done by our army, (INAUDIBLE) by our police in Sinai and in different areas.

And yes, you're right. We have a really long border with us and Libya. It reaches more than 1,000 kilometers and it's easy sometimes that somebody

would (INAUDIBLE). There is a lot of successes in this (INAUDIBLE) that's not affect inside Egypt (INAUDIBLE).

And as for the strike, when you mentioned how are you going to do just that by airstrike, this is exactly -- I can't comment much about that. It's not

my field in the military reaction. It has its own people and as we have heard yesterday, the president of (INAUDIBLE) when he said that Egypt

reserve its right for the time and the place of the revenging and of defending itself.

So I don't know exactly if by airstrikes only it would be enough or not, but this if for the military specialists and --

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: And time will tell to see how effective it can be from the air. We've got to leave it there.

Salah Abdel Sadek, Egyptian government spokesman joining us on the line. And our condolences to your country and the Coptic community there for this

outrage that happened. Thank you so much.

Let's bring in Ian Lee now in Cairo to talk a little bit more about this.

We're talking about the Coptic community there -- this is a community that has claimed for a long time persecution within Egypt, let alone with this

outrage that has now happened in Libya.

What's been the reaction there among the Coptic Christian community?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michael, there's been outrage here about the killings and really I want to expand and say there's been outrage among

Egyptians in general that this would happen. There's a lot of support and there was a lot of press here on President Sisi to do something to

retaliate against this crime.

But as you've said, Egyptians have -- Coptic Christians here have long had been persecuted to some extent. They make up roughly 10 percent of the

population. We have seen constant -- previously before Egypt's revolutions and after Egypt's revolutions attacks against churches and rarely do we see

the perpetrators of these attacks held accountable.

I do need to say, though, that we haven't seen any of these large attacks, any of these real blatant attacks for some time now. The security

situation really timing around the country, don't know if that is the effect of it. But we haven't seen any of these attacks.

But the Christians are definitely watching what's happening in Libya. A lot of Christians, thousands of them, go to Libya for work. There are even

Christians still in Libya working right now. There are other Egyptians there, the government is trying to get them out, urging them to leave

Libya. It is no longer safe, especially after these airstrikes.

But something that struck me today, I was interviewing an army general, retired army general. And I asked him what is the biggest security threat

to Egypt right now? I was assuming he probably would mention the ongoing battle against ISIS in Sinai that has already claimed hundreds of security

personnel lives.

But he told me the largest security threat is the Libyan border. It is porous; they have militants can easily go up against it and they're not

boxed in. They have ways of getting weapons and that, he says, is what is worrying.

HOLMES: There are few countries in the world with more weapons than Libya at the moment. And as you say, a very porous border.

Ian, we appreciate your coverage on this, Ian Lee there in Cairo.

And as we have been reminded this weekend, it only takes one man and a gun to bring terror to Europe's doorsteps.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES (voice-over): Right now thousands of people gathering at vigil for those who lost their lives in Copenhagen. At a press briefing today, the

prime minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt, said the country must stand against its remus (ph).

HELLE THORNING-SCHMIDT, PM, DENMARK: This is not a conflict between Islam and the West. This is not a conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims.

This is a conflict between the core values of our society and violent extremists.

HOLMES (voice-over): And when we come back, we turn to Israel's response to what some believe is a source of all of this extremism, that is ISIS, of

course. An interview with the outgoing Israeli military chief when we come back.

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HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone. Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, urging Jews in Europe to move to Israel for their own safety and

protection.

A controversial statement, both in and outside Israel. This all comes, of course, after a gunman opened fire on a synagogue in Denmark at the

weekend, killing a Jewish security guard. The latest anti-Semitic attack to have taken place in Europe over the past year.

The number of these attacks has been on the rise since Israel's military offensive in Gaza last July. The man in charge of Israel's army at that

time was Benny Gantz, who retired today after a military career spanning four decades.

He spoke last weekend to Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: General Benny Gantz, welcome to the program.

GANTZ: Thank you, Christiane. It's a pleasure to be with you.

AMANPOUR: Well, first let me ask you, after decades of being in the Israeli Defense Forces, what does it mean to you to be retiring, to be

leaving at this particular time?

GANTZ: Well, it's been quite a while since I started almost four decades, you know, and my first mission as an IDF soldier was to secure President

Sadat from Egypt coming to make a peace agreement with Israel on his way to Jerusalem. And almost four decades later on, I'm retiring after being

involved in so many events in an unstable area.

So it's been historic events, historic period and the last few years even more so. So it's quite exciting, thank you.

AMANPOUR: My goodness, that's pretty amazing, to think that that was your first duty, because that was all about the beginning of the attempt to make

peace between Israel and the Arab nations.

After all these decades, after all these attempts, it does not look like Israel is any closer to that peace.

GANTZ: Unfortunately, it looks like a huge strategic challenge to achieve peace and I believe that Israel will always seek for one.

AMANPOUR: Let me, for instance, read you what Amos Oz has written or has talked to "The New York Times" about.

He has said that there is a growing sense that Israel is becoming an isolated ghetto, which is exactly what the founding fathers and mothers

hoped to leave behind them forever when they created the State of Israel.

He's obviously talking about Israel's position in the world as this failure to achieve peace becomes cemented.

Does that concern you?

GANTZ: It definitely concerns me but let me be very frank with you, Christiane.

While we should seek for peace, we must take into consideration the security perspective of it. You know, I told you about being a young

trooper when President Sadat came to visit. I was also the last Israeli soldier to leave Lebanon in May 2000. I've been commanding the Judea and

Samaria area. And I've seen it all from so many different perspectives.

And I think it's in the interest of both the Palestinian side and the Israeli side to have a reliable agreement that will be a secure one for

both sides.

Otherwise, it's just a piece of paper and I think we should remember that.

AMANPOUR: You have also said, especially after the latest very brutal war in Gaza that actually there should be help to allow them to live.

Can you explain what you mean and what should happen in Gaza?

GANTZ: I think that the people of Gaza have the right to live a normal life.

We have zero interest in Gaza to exclude security aspects and it's in their hands to use the resources which they have and to support their community.

Look, my mother was a Holocaust survivor. And during the campaigns, not the last one because she already passed away, but the one before, I called

her and asked her, Mama, are you going into the shelter?

She says, no, because I've seen worse things than that. But Benny, she said, please don't stop fighting but don't stop sending them food.

And I know the trends and I know the stories. But I know what we have been trying to, how much we alert the population in Gaza, how much we tried to

evacuate the different places, how much we have used phone calls, knock on the roof, everything in our capacity to try to differ between civilians and

military action.

AMANPOUR: General, you know that, despite all those precautions you're telling me about, you have been accused, your forces on the ground there,

of war crimes and there are internal investigations as well.

Is anybody going to be held accountable?

Should they be?

GANTZ: Well, you know, we are a military of a democratic country that we are all bound to laws. After being -- doing everything we could to avoid

those civilians, mistakes might have happened.

Those things are under inquiry, investigation; if people need to be accountable, they will be accountable. We don't need the world to direct

us to these directions. We do it from our own interests, of the moral interest and the instrumental interest as well.

And once those investigations with our institutions will be over, we will see what's going to happen with it. And we will follow the laws.

AMANPOUR: I want to ask you about Syria.

Do you think the current air war against ISIS is going to succeed?

GANTZ: It has to. ISIS respect nothing but ISIS. ISIS respects nothing but ISIS. It leaves no place to other beliefs. It leaves no place to

other states in the region. I think that the international campaign against ISIS together with regional coalitions and other forces is very

important and need to be appreciated. And it's a long campaign. It won't end tomorrow. But it's a very important one.

AMANPOUR: Let me switch to the subject of Iran. So as you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu is going to the Congress apparently, if he does, to

speak against this deal with Iran and to talk about sanctions.

Now the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has said that Mossad has reportedly said that imposing more sanctions on Iran would be, quote, "like

throwing a grenade into the process of negotiations."

What do you think?

GANTZ: I would seek for the strategic result, I would say. This is the only one I care about. And anything that keeps Iran away from becoming or

being able to become a military nuclear nation should be a course of action. I see no reason for concession with Iran.

I think that the only importance is the fact that we can prevent Iran from becoming a military nuclear capable. So if there is a deal but it's a bad

deal, what did we earn from it?

AMANPOUR: So I think the only question really is should one give the deal the chance of being made to get the results that you're talking about?

Because the alternative puts the military option back on the table.

So are the IDF, is the air force, is the Israeli military ready to go to war with Iran if this deal is not made?

GANTZ: The Israel Defense Forces under my command and I'm sure that Israel Defense Forces under future command as well will always do what its

government tells them to do.

AMANPOUR: General Benny Gantz, thank you very much indeed. Thanks for joining me.

GANTZ: Thank you very much. It was both an honor and pleasure. Thank you very much, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Well, a future fraught with difficulties for Israel. And as we told you a moment ago, right now thousands of people are gathering at a

vigil for those who lost their lives in Copenhagen.

Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt has been speaking, paying tribute to all of those touched by this tragedy.

When we come back, a return to normality for some of West Africa's children: once closed by Ebola, schools open again in Liberia. We'll have

that after this.

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HOLMES: Welcome back. Finally tonight, imagine a world starting again. For six months, Liberia has seen its schools shut over fear of Ebola, their

gates closed, the playgrounds empty. But now hundreds of those gates opening again, more than 800 classrooms across Liberia have welcomed the

return of children today, thanks to a joint effort from UNICEF, Save the Children and local government. Teachers and students go back to the

chalkboard now, armed with digital thermometers as well as soap and pencils.

It represents just one in five of schools across Liberia in total. It does mark incredible progress for a country that only a few months ago was

reporting hundreds of Ebola cases a week. Now there are as few as three a week. Some good news.

That is our program for tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Twitter @HolmesCNN. Thanks

for watching and goodbye for now from Atlanta.

END