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Amanpour

Lithuanian President Fights for Freedom; Egypt's Star Satirist; Imagine a World

Aired March 13, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): This week: a warning from Russia's NATO neighbor: don't be naive about Putin. The president of

Lithuania warns that he will only get more dangerous unless the West gets more decisive.

Plus schools for satire: Egypt's most famous TV satirist on his new role at Harvard and why he doesn't think he'll be back on the air anytime soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASSEM YOUSSEF, EGYPTIAN SATIRIST: What -- who said that my country's authoritarian?

Come on. I mean, don't put like words in my mouth.

We are -- it's a very, very good, democratic country, please.

Please, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, I'm Christiane Amanpour and welcome to the special weekend edition of our program, where we look back at some of

the major issues of the past week.

While an uneasy truce continues to hold in Ukraine, there is still sporadic fighting and real concern about Russia's true intentions at its borders

with Europe. This week, the United States tried to send a stronger message by announcing it's sending 3,000 troops to the Baltics to take part in

military exercises.

Now just about every Lithuanian who's alive today has encountered some kind of Russian aggression; occupied in 1940 by the Soviet Union and then in

1991, seeking independence as the USSR imploded, Soviet troops stormed the capital, Vilnius, killing a dozen people.

But on Wednesday, Lithuania marked 25 years of independence and new alliances with the E.U. and NATO. And President Dalia Grybauskaite joined

me from Vilnius to warn again that NATO needs to get much more serious about deteriorating further Russian aggression.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Madam President, welcome to the program and thank you for joining me.

DALIA GRYBAUSKAITE, PRESIDENT OF LITHUANIA: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: Twenty-five years now of independence for your country.

Did you ever think that you would be facing the potential of a war or a skirmish with the Soviet Union, actually Russia, right now?

Did you think we would ever be in this place?

GRYBAUSKAITE: Never. Really, 25 years for us was so important and we thought that freedom is forever and independence is forever.

But it looks that every day we need to fight for it.

And even now, especially now, then we're seeing their so-called post-Soviet imperialism on our borders, it looks that every day still it is a fight.

AMANPOUR: In this terrible time of real tension and hot war in Europe, there have been quite a lot of skirmishes or encroachments and provocations

by Russia in the Baltic area, even as far west as Cornwall here in Britain.

Have you had any violations of any of your air or land or sea space by the Russians recently?

GRYBAUSKAITE: Really, we, during this 25 years, we used to some kind of pressure, violations of international law, the mistreatment. It's not

surprising us too much. Now it is only intensified and includes additional military threats and announced exercises 24 hours deployment and readiness

on our border in Kaliningrad that airspace as well violated very often with unidentified flights.

So, yes, it is not only against us; it is against all of the European Union. It's against all Baltic region. It is a fact. And the West needs

to face it and take it very seriously.

AMANPOUR: Well, to that regard, let me ask you this, news that the United States plans to deploy 3,000 extra forces for exercises in the Baltics,

will leave up to 1,000 military vehicles in your country and other Baltic nations.

How do you react to that?

GRYBAUSKAITE: Very positively but our answer usually is that today, the fight for freedom and for peace in Europe is on Ukraine territory. Yes, if

we will not stop Putin in Ukraine, he will be on our borders, on NATO countries' borders.

Today, it is very good that those agreements are taken seriously and implemented that bilaterally United States are supporting Baltic region

very much. But still we need more to think about stopping Putin in Ukraine, not on our borders.

AMANPOUR: Well, as we look at a map of all these new, the latest NATO bases, new bases, I want to ask you, because you know President Putin. You

know Russia. You've lived in this neighborhood all your life.

Do you believe that President Putin now is sure -- and I use the word sure -- that any NATO -- any aggression would be responded to by NATO?

GRYBAUSKAITE: It's difficult to say what he is thinking and how sure he is. But the risks that he can try to irritate or to test NATO is still

here. And as I said, the test today is in Ukraine territory. And if you will see the lack of leadership, the lack of support Ukraine, I am sure he

will try to test us.

AMANPOUR: I would like to play you a little bit of an interview that President Putin gave to Russian state television recently. It's about his

intentions after the fall of President Yanukovych and he also talked about Crimea. I would like you just to listen and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): I called the leaders of the special services and the ministry of defense to the Kremlin

and I laid the task out for them to save the life of the president of Ukraine. Otherwise they would have just destroyed him. We're ready to

take him straight out of Donetsk, by land, by sea and by air.

It was the night of the 22nd to the 23rd. I said to all colleagues, we have to start working on the return of Crimea to Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So Madam President, this implies that months and months, more than a year ago, President Putin was thinking about talking to his

colleagues about taking back Crimea.

He had that plan, even though they denied it afterwards.

Are you surprised by that?

GRYBAUSKAITE: No, I'm not surprised. His personal attempt to restore the so-called glory of -- Soviet glory of Russia, the Soviet imperialism

really, in his neighborhood and with the neighboring countries, was not a surprise because, for him, nostalgia for Soviet times was his personal

tragedy of collapse of Soviet Union. So this is not a surprise.

He used the opportunity and he took it.

AMANPOUR: How do you think the West got it so wrong?

Why is it, do you think, that nobody quite figured out President Putin and his intentions?

GRYBAUSKAITE: I think it's even now we're seeing the same naivete or unwillingness to take the situation seriously and still, for some

countries, for some Western leaders, it's easier and better not to see what -- not to understand or to avoid taking the decisions.

But the problem is that the longer we will delay the decisions, evaluation -- the longer we will allow Putin to go externally towards different

countries' territories, to use aggressive force, to lie, to mistreat international obligations, the more dangerous, the more risky in the West

we will be, the more dangerous he will became.

AMANPOUR: And in that light, you have reintroduced conscription, the draft in your country.

How do you really think that will make any difference?

Is that more symbolic or is that real?

Are you really worried?

GRYBAUSKAITE: I think it is both. It is real because we need to increase our military capability to defend ourselves. We need to prepare active and

ready reserve and for that it's conscription. And we know the decision- making processes, especially NATO, takes some time; even for rapid reaction forces it takes about 72 hours.

So last November, we already ourselves created rapid reaction forces by 2.5 thousand people already, last November. And we would like to be able to

protect ourselves before our partners will be able to come.

But of course we also negotiate and talk bilaterally as it's now with the United States to be friends before even NATO decisions will be taken

because we are not very large countries in our -- in Baltic region. We need to be sure that we are ready, that we're prepared to defend ourselves

and only then we will have moral possibility to ask for our lives to come.

AMANPOUR: Thank you so much indeed for joining me tonight.

GRYBAUSKAITE: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And of course so many of us feel quite powerless in the face of overwhelming geopolitical forces. But there is one weapon available to all

of us and that's humor.

My next guest, Bassem Youssef, made a career out of poking fun (INAUDIBLE). Now he's left the anchor chair for (INAUDIBLE) about satire. "Tickling

Giants" with the creator of Egypt's "Daily Show" after this.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

He spoke truth to power like Egyptians had never seen before and made them laugh along the way.

Bassem Youssef, dubbed Egypt's Jon Stewart, left no one unscathed with his biting satire during the country's turbulent Arab Spring uprising. But

these confusing political times have come back to bite Bassem. His show has shut down due to what he calls, quote, "insurmountable pressure."

Now between lectures at Harvard, I caught up to him a few days ago. And he told me satire didn't start with him and it certainly won't end with this

show.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Bassem Youssef, welcome back to the program. Great to see you.

YOUSSEF: Lovely to be with you again, Christiane. I really miss you. I'm -- really lovely to see you again.

AMANPOUR: So I want to ask you why you had to quit show business and what are you teaching your students at Harvard.

YOUSSEF: Well, you know, sometimes circumstances are not the best for you to continue a political satire show. Sometimes jokes kind of are annoying.

I'm not teaching. I'm leading study groups because Harvard professors are very touchy when resident fellows come in and say they teach. So I'm

leading study groups and my topic is about political satire and humor and how they interact with political, social and even religious taboos.

AMANPOUR: I mean clearly in countries such as your own, Bassem, there seems to be no room for satire at all.

YOUSSEF: Well, there is room for satire and comedy as long as it's acceptable by the people controlling the atmosphere. So maybe I -- maybe I

was too rogue. So that's why we stopped.

AMANPOUR: You know, but you were an equal opportunity offender. I mean, and let's remind our viewers that you went from being a heart surgeon to

the most popular television host right after the Arab Spring, right around the time it was happening in your country.

And you basically offended the Mubaraks, the Morsis and you probably would have done with the Sisis.

I want to play a little bit of a documentary that is being done about your program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Egypt's prosecutor general has issued a warrant for Youssef's arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Suspension of the popular and controversial program was announced just minutes before it was due to go on

the air.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): (Speaking foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): You're going to penalize people for saying jokes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Once you go after a joke, that's a joke in itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUSSEF: The director of the documentary is a senior producer with Jon Stewart. She's been following me for the past 2.5 years. It basically

documents my story and not just my story but basically the atmosphere that we were living in in the past 2.5 years. It's talking about political

satire, humor; how can people be all for a certain program or a joke, but when the joke turns on them, they kind of like turn on you.

And so maybe we were an equal opportunity satirist, but they were not equal opportunity audience.

AMANPOUR: Well, how important is it to be able to have space for satire?

Particularly in authoritarian parts of the world such as your own?

YOUSSEF: What -- who said that my country's authoritarian?

Come on. I mean, don't put like words in my mouth.

We are -- it's a very, very good, democratic country, please.

Please.

Everything is good. I mean, the -- everybody can say whatever they want.

What are you talking about? I mean, did I miss anything?

It's great. It's amazing.

AMANPOUR: So how important is it to be able to actually have a program such as your own?

YOUSSEF: You know, like I think you really can't take satire out. I mean, satire didn't begin or end with my program. It is a part of people's

culture, a part of people's thoughts.

So if one program is off, there are people who will find other ways.

AMANPOUR: Do you believe there are limits to satire and limits to how much you can or will offend people?

I obviously refer to the "Charlie Hebdo" cartoons and the terrible price that 12 of their satirists paid.

YOUSSEF: Well, personally I don't think that you should make fun of other people's beliefs or other people's religions.

At the end of the day, you cannot really control the world or the Internet. The -- people will continue to offend. The way that you face these

offenses is not through killing or not through burning flags or putting embassies under siege. The way is to have a social conversation, make this

deemed uncool.

I mean, I'm going to give you an example. It might not be relevant but 50 years ago, cigarettes were cool. Fifty years later, cigarettes are not

cool.

It has to be through a very extended social conversation, not through violence because basically the people who did what they did in "Charlie

Hebdo," the people who killed them and committed the murders, they offended our religion more than their cartoons did.

AMANPOUR: I want to play you a clip of "Saturday Night Live," a recent sketch about ISIS. And basically it's a father who's dropping off his

young daughter at the airport and giving her some walk-around money and saying be careful.

Let me play it and I want to ask your reaction afterwards.

(VIDEO CLIP, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE")

AMANPOUR: So, Bassem, really, it's very funny. But on the other hand, let's face it, these are people who have slit the throats of our

colleagues, who have enslaved women. I want to ask you a serious question.

What is it about the West which can tolerate that kind of joke even against the most inhuman and abominable attacks that that group has perpetrated on

us versus your part of the world, which cannot tolerate a cartoon and some people --

(CROSSTALK)

YOUSSEF: -- because if you come to my part of the world, YouTube is infested with videos making fun of ISIS. We're basically making fun of

their own anthem. We're putting their songs where they play while killing people. We're putting these songs on belly dancing scenes. We are making

fun -- we are having sketches; people are making fun of them.

I think if there's anybody who's making a mockery of our religion, it is that people like ISIS and people like killing "Charlie Hebdo."

I mean, I don't want to even call them extreme Muslims. I think they are a bunch of lunatics who, instead of playing "Grand Theft Auto" on video

games, they want to do it in real life.

So they are just a bunch of murderers. And whether they put a black flag or whatever religious slogans, it happens with all religions. There could

be an extreme form of Ku Klux Klan, as much as I consider it. So they are crazy and they are a threat for me as much they are a threat to you.

AMANPOUR: Do you think ironically that you might be popular again in Egypt now because you've got a regime that is no friend of the extreme Islamists,

and maybe some of your funny skits against the Muslim Brotherhood might fit right in with today's culture in Egypt.

YOUSSEF: Well, the thing is it's not -- I mean, you can't go back doing a show with a premeditated agenda. You cannot -- if you're going to do the

show, you're going to make fun of whatever. The question is will I be allowed to do, make fun of whatever because I might do -- I might make fun,

for example, of ISIS today but tomorrow I would like to make fun of people in authority.

The question is, will I allowed to be -- to do so.

And basically are there going to be TV channels in the region that would like to carry that kind of a show? That's the biggest question.

So I don't think it is likely that I'm going to be back on air anytime soon.

AMANPOUR: Perhaps you might be on the air, let's say, in the United States.

Have you thought about Jon Stewart's soon-to-be vacant seat at "The Daily Show" on Comedy Central?

YOUSSEF: Oh, I mean, the day that I actually been chosen to replace Jon Stewart will be like -- it will be glorious. But I don't think that

Americans would like to take their political satire from a Middle Eastern guy with a thick accent. I think this is going to be even more difficult

than electing a black president.

But you know, let's hope.

AMANPOUR: Bassem Youssef, thank you so much for joining me.

YOUSSEF: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Imagine a world where for every step forward in the battle for gender justice there are a few steps back -- that's next.

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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, we heard earlier from Dalia Grybauskaite, Lithuania's female president and since Hillary Clinton made her clarion

call for equality in Beijing 20 years ago, there has been much progress. Now she may be seeking to become America's first female president, but just

look at this grid. There are already 19 female heads of state and government. Then again, according to the Inter-Parliamentary Union, that's

only a fraction of the 152 heads of state around the globe.

According to the United Nations, since its 1995 Beijing Conference, the number of women serving in legislatures has nearly doubled. But that's

only 22 percent of politicians around the world.

Post-conflict parts of Africa have seen some of the greatest gains, with Rwanda leading the way in education, maternal mortality and access to clean

water. Women all over the world leapt forward. But they're also kept back because the U.N. reports that violence and sexual abuse against women

remain at pandemic levels.

India this past week has been rocked by a documentary on a brutal gang rape and death that happened there in December 2012. Now the documentary shows

one of the defendants saying the woman was to blame for her own rape.

But what's angered the Indian government and others there about the film is not the fatal damage to that woman but the damage to the nation's image.

Even in the most developed countries, the U.N. says, the gender pay gap will not close for 70 more years at the current rate. And yet perhaps the

surest way to equal rights must be equal pay for equal play.

That's it for our program this week and remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter.

Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.

END