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Amanpour
Mixed Messages on Nuclear Deal from Iran; Daring to Dance in Iran; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired April 09, 2015 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight: mixed messages out of Tehran as the United States and Iran get down to difficult brass tacks in nuclear
talks and we'll go there live.
Plus the actress Freida Pinto discusses her new film about an Iranian who risks his life to become a dancer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREIDA PINTO, ACTOR: You read and hear all kinds of versions of news reporting about what's happening in Iran. But do we really get to know the
human story behind it all, the faces behind the political backdrop? And this was my opportunity to explore that and, as an actor, as an artist, to
tell that story to the rest of the world.
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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour. First the Americans went public with their nuclear
framework fact sheet and now it's Iran's turn.
Are mixed messages coming from Tehran today, raising questions about the painstaking negotiations ahead of a final deal for June 30th?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Now the most important point for Iran is undoubtedly when the hated sanctions will be lifted. President Hassan
Rouhani said this today:
HASSAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will not sign any deal unless on the very first day of its implementation all economic
sanctions against Iran are lifted all at once.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Now earlier this week on this program America's chief technical negotiator also said that implementation would be the
trigger depending on how quickly Iran would do that.
ERNEST MONIZ, U.S. SECRETARY OF ENERGY: They have a lot of work to do. And that's why I think six months is probably a realistic guesstimate of
the time required.
AMANPOUR: And they got that, did they? They knew that?
MONIZ: Oh, yes, for sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Now all week all of Iran's major power centers have fallen into line behind the framework. But today, Iran's most important voice, that of
the Supreme Leader, was finally heard in a stream of tweets, saying that sanctions must be lifted as soon as a deal is reached.
So is this different? Is he hedging his bets? And what does this all mean?
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AMANPOUR: Joining me now from Tehran is Sadegh Zibakalam. He's professor of political science at Tehran University and he's been vigorously debating
this issue at public forums in Tehran.
Professor, welcome back to the program.
Let me ask you to tell me what you think the message --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: -- good evening.
What has Ayatollah Khamenei said in his tweets? He basically has said all sanctions must be lifted when a deal is reached.
What do you read with that?
SADEGH ZIBAKALAM, TEHRAN UNIVERSITY: Well, let be begin by saying that everyone was waiting for the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei to
say something about the deal and because in a way hardliners were saying that -- or rather implying that he is not very happy about the deal.
On the other hand, President Rouhani and the negotiating team were actually advocating otherwise. So everyone was waiting for the Supreme Leader to
say something about the deal and he said it today.
I believe that on the whole, his speech was very balanced. It wasn't so much in favor of --
(AUDIO GAP)
ZIBAKALAM: -- and to see that how far Americans would come forward, how far European would come forward.
So in a sense he left everything in balance, I think.
AMANPOUR: So let me play this little bit of the speech he made today and then we'll discuss it. Have a listen.
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AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI, IRANIAN SUPREME LEADER (through translator): If you ask me if I support or oppose a nuclear agreement, I neither support it
nor oppose it because nothing has happened yet. Nothing has been done yet. The whole issue lies in the details that they are meant to discuss
one by one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, Professor, is he just trying to hedge his bets?
Does this mean that he can say, see, I told you so, if it doesn't work out?
Or is something deeper going on?
Because the tweets were more definitive than that bit of that speech.
ZIBAKALAM: Well, I believe that at the end of the day the ayatollah is behind the deal or rather he's inclined -- he supports the deal.
On the other hand, you must realize that the only important group that wholeheartedly do support the ayatollah are the hardliners. And all of
them have actually risen against the deal.
So you do not expect -- you shouldn't expect, you cannot expect the ayatollah to let them down as is fair (ph) and to come out in support of
the -- in support of the -- in support of the deal.
In fact, he said and he urged the negotiating team that you must convince hardliners or the critic that what have you done. And you must try to sort
of appease them and to reason with them.
AMANPOUR: Well, that's interesting; you say that, because all the reports we've seen out of there suggest that some of these hardliners have at least
verbally supported it. The head of the Revolutionary Guard, then the head of the armed forces, the speaker of the parliament and protests against it
haven't been allowed.
Friday prayers last week also supported it.
ZIBAKALAM: Well, the figures that you pointed out, Christiane, they are the people that more or less we expected them -- from them to sort of
commit themselves half and half if you like. The Revolutionary Guard and the chief of the Revolutionary Guard, the speaker of the Majlis, et cetera,
et cetera.
What is important, I believe, are the -- are the Ahmadinejad's supporters, Hojjatiyeh, Mesbahiyeh (ph) supporters. These are the real hardliners.
And they have been attacking and they have been putting a lot of pressure, they have been criticizing openly zarif and the negotiating team and that
you have given in. And you have nothing left, whatever United States has urged you, you have offered them, you have given away.
This is what exactly the hardliners are saying. I have debating, I have had half a dozen debates with the hardliners during the past week and they
are very critical. They are very much against a deal. And they don't call it a deal. They simply call it capitulation to the United States.
AMANPOUR: So let me put this to you, because some would say those people who you mentioned are slightly discredited and they certainly don't
represent the majority of opinion in Iran. We were talking about the massive support and the practically dancing in the streets over these --
over this deal.
So how much effect can these hardliners actually have?
ZIBAKALAM: You are quite right, Christiane. I have -- this was a new experience for me because millions of Iranians during the Nowruz holiday,
they were desperate to hear positive results from the talk rather than when they met, rather than congratulating the new year and asking how they were,
they simply asked, "Have you heard the latest news? Have you heard anything? Is there a breakthrough?" And so the vast majority of Iranians
are definitely behind the deal.
But you mustn't forget that hardliners are important, especially if things started to go wrong between Iran and United States over the physical steps
that are ahead. Then the hardliners would become much more important. The Revolutionary Guard would tilt (ph) in favor of the hardliners. Speaker of
Majlis and many other middle-of-the-road principalists or conservatives would actually lend their support to the opponent of the deal rather than
do Rouhani.
AMANPOUR: Really interesting times and there you are, debating all of this in public.
Sadegh Zibakalam, thank you so much for joining me today.
ZIBAKALAM: You're welcome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And beneath all the political wranglings over Iran's nuclear deal lie the dreams of a people yearning to be free in all manner of ways,
including simply dancing.
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AMANPOUR: That's "Desert Dancer," and next, Freida Pinto, the Hollywood star who's bringing those dreams to life on screen.
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AMANPOUR: Now welcome back to the program.
Freedom of expression knows many forms. But perhaps the most beautiful if through one's own body with dance. But imagine when that kind of
expression is not allowed. That has been the case in Iran since the 1979 Islamic revolution. And a few years ago, a group of young people there
challenged the authorities by starting their own underground dance troupe.
The story is brought to the big screen in the movie, "Desert Dancer," with the help of world-famous actress Freida Pinto.
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AMANPOUR: And with me now to discuss is Freida Pinto and also the movie's director, Richard Raymond.
Welcome. Welcome to the program.
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Why Iran? Why dance? Why now?
PINTO: Why Iran, because I feel like I was living in some sort of an oblivion because you read and hear all kinds of versions of news reporting
about what's happening in Iran. But do we really get to know the human story behind it all, the faces behind political backdrop? And this was my
opportunity to explore that and as an actor, as an artist, to tell that story to the rest of the world.
Why now? Because it's very relevant. A freedom of -- actually the oppression of the freedom of expression is not something that is only
restricted to Iran. Let's take "Hebdo." Let's taking the banning of India's daughter in India. All of that is very current. It's very
relevant. And so to tell a story artistically without taking political sides is something that artists like -- directors like Richard and artists
like me know best.
AMANPOUR: Richard, is it political, though? Is standing up for freedom of expression political in itself?
RICHARD RAYMOND, FILM DIRECTOR: I thought that "Desert Dancer" was an opportunity to actually shine a positive light on Iran in the sense of that
it's a film that isn't political in any way. It's a film about the people and the heroes of Iran who are the youth of Iran, who exist artistically
despite all the restrictions placed among them.
If you talk to Afshin Ghaffarian, who the film's about, or any Iranian youth that expresses himself artistically, they'll say, well, it's just --
why is it so spectacular? It's -- they're very noble about everything. And Afshin, when he put on a performance in the desert in nature, where the
regime wouldn't be there to arrest them for dancing or the audience of the students of Tehran University for watching a live dance performance, they
didn't think it was such a big deal. It was just another day in their lives.
AMANPOUR: And yet, of course, it's in the context of the politics of the moment as we've discussed, the whole nuclear negotiations, the yearning of
the people there that something for them might change if this deal goes down, but also the dance is a problem because of what happened with the --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: -- Pharrell Williams, "Happy," six people were arrested. Obviously they were released, but it is a big issue.
And you weren't even allowed to film in Iran, right? I mean, you didn't even try. You went to Morocco?
PINTO: Well, I really wanted to go to Iran, but unfortunately the film got announced a month before I wanted to make this trip. So then it became a
matter of security and insurance and hence I couldn't go to Iran, which is always going to be Richard and I biggest regret because we have to feel the
soil and smell the soil and feel the texture.
And in this case, we have to take recourse to actually meeting people who were in Iran before the revolution who've now moved to America or London,
cook food with them and read poetry with them and that's how we had to learn.
AMANPOUR: You yourself were raised as a dancer, right?
PINTO: No, actually I wasn't. That is Wikipedia.
(LAUGHTER)
PINTO: That is incorrect reporting. But --
AMANPOUR: Did you dance?
PINTO: I love dancing. I mean, I think it's --
AMANPOUR: Do you have sore feet and scars? Is that true?
PINTO: I do. I do have blisters. I have a --
(CROSSTALK)
RAYMOND: And pictures every other week of blisters.
PINTO: No, he has a video of me bumping heads with my costar and then receiving a contusion on my forehead.
But I think, you know what, I think if you're an Indian and you don't dance, that's the problem.
AMANPOUR: All right. All right, well, let me move onto being an Indian and standing up for women's rights in India, which you do. You have spoken
very loudly on this whole, you know, rape crisis in India, particularly the film, "India's Daughter," that wasn't allowed to be shown there.
How did it resonate so deeply with you?
PINTO: I think -- this is the other thing I find so hard to find that one moment in my life where I woke up and I go, oh, this is it for me.
Growing up in India, you'd be a fool to not see the opposites that exist, the extremes that exist. I traveled an hour on a local train to go from my
house to college. And in that one hour, I think I was given a glimpse of the world, things that are part of my life and things that were not.
And I couldn't ignore it. Once I did a film like "Slum Dog Millionaire," and I realized, oh, my god, this is an opportunity of a lifetime to not
just pursue a career that I really want to do but to be that voice for all the one hour that I saw on that train that can change and that should
change. So I immediately took on when Leslie (ph) asked me if I'd come on board as an ambassador at an associate producer --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: -- of course the producer of the documentary.
PINTO: -- she's the director-producer of the documentary. Yes. And when she asked me if I'd come on board to help promote this, I said, absolutely,
yes.
AMANPOUR: Did you ever feel that there, but for the grace of God, that you moved on, that you had a professional profile, that you had a career, that
could have happened to you?
I mean, an ordinary medical student being gang raped to death?
PINTO: It could happen to anybody. You know, you don't -- I don't think economic status or -- well, social status could have been -- could have
been different for someone else. Anyone could have been in that position.
What actually baffles me the most is when the documentary got banned and everybody spoke who banned the documentary, were against it, said, how can
you air the views of the rapists? Why shouldn't they? How else are we going to go and try and change those mindsets if we don't know what we're
up against, if we do not hear educated lawyers say that, well, it was the girl's fault in the first place? And that is really the problem, this
disease is actually in the mindset. It's not really in the way people think that this documentary film that went out there and shamed the
country.
So, yes, it's -- by all means, I'm going to speak out vociferously against this ban.
AMANPOUR: Let's talk next projects.
Richard, what is your next project? This must have been an amazing thing to do, very feature-y, very human.
What is your next project?
RAYMOND: It's based on another true story, but we've come up against a problem. It's set in West Africa in Sierra Leone. It's actually about a
man that was here on your show recently, who's the ex-chief of defense staff of the United Kingdom Armed Forces, Sir David -- Lord David Richards
now.
It's the story about how, in the year 2000, he was sent to Sierra Leone to do an evacuation of British and foreign nationals and how he ended up
manipulating the media and in specifics the BBC foreign correspondent Korda Nalital (ph) to file news reports --
AMANPOUR: -- colleague of mine.
RAYMOND: -- yes, he's a great man -- to file news reports in the U.K. that would kind of cover his tracks while his forces were actually doing an
intervention.
AMANPOUR: That sounds quite controversial, quite controversial.
RAYMOND: But it's a positive story about doing the right thing. And David Richards is such a great man, makes me wish -- I wish he was running for
prime minister.
AMANPOUR: Well, you know what, the British did -- and I'm looking forward to seeing the film -- but the British did basically save Sierra Leone back
then from total collapse.
RAYMOND: Absolutely.
AMANPOUR: -- the general and they really maneuvered against the terrorists or the RUF. So very interesting.
RAYMOND: Thank you. But the story behind what's known is even more --
AMANPOUR: Well, that's why we're waiting to see the film.
And what is your next film?
PINTO: Well, I have a fun film that I'm going on to next. You know, you have to mix them up a bit. It's a big studio film. But what I'm really
excited about is these two films that I'm producing and I find myself gravitating toward strong women's stories. And one of them -- well, I
won't mention it because I'm kind of really excited about it. I'm doing a proper announcement whenever it's right.
AMANPOUR: No, right now.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
PINTO: No, it would be perfect. But just let's say that it is a story that needs to be told because these strong women from parts of the world
that we don't really look at going, oh, they might be strong women in, say, Pakistan or India.
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: -- really a mission for you.
PINTO: I don't know if it's a mission. I just feel it's just -- it's so instinctive. It's not -- I don't wake up in the morning going, I have to
tell these stories because I have to be the only one that changes the world or whatever it is. I just feel so drawn to them. I'm mesmerized by these
women.
RAYMOND: But knowing Freida like I do, she is a fighter. She -- and she's using her voice for good in this -- in that sense.
PINTO: I have a voice. So I should be using it.
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: -- girls and women will take a lot of inspiration from that. So I really do appreciate it.
PINTO: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And thank you both for being here.
PINTO: Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: Great.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And it is -- we've been talking about -- a troubling time for India's women and its men but there is progress on another thing we've just
been talking about, the musical front.
A small district in Kerala in Southern India has been at war with "Jesus Christ Superstar," for 25 years. The musical, that is. Now "The New York
Times" reports the supreme court has stepped in and a truce has finally been reached. And in Kerala, the 1970s show, which also became a film,
will go on, small victories.
And after a break, imagine a world where a president pays tribute to a musical legacy that's a little different. Barack Obama goes looking for
Bob Marley -- after this.
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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, President Barack Obama is in Jamaica. He is the first American leader to make a state visit there in more than 30
years. Now imagine a world where the leader of the free world decides that his first port of call won't be political but musical.
He dropped by the Bob Marley Museum. And he entered to the sounds of Marley's worldwide smash hit, "One Love."
(AUDIO CLIP, "ONE LOVE")
AMANPOUR: Marley is Jamaica's first global superstar, famous for his music and his taste in marijuana. It's a fame that wafted across Jamaica. But
the island nation has only just legalized it. That happened this year. And it was behind the American state of Colorado, which did so back in
2012. And let's not forget that the president himself admitted in his memoir that he, too, had indulged as a youth.
Next stop for him, the Summit of the Americas in Panama, where Obama will meet Raul Castro for the first time since reestablishing diplomatic
relations, perhaps hoping their two countries can, in the words of Bob Marley, "get together and feel all right."
And that is it for our program tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter.
Thanks for watching and goodbye from New York.
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