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Amanpour
Qatar's Reaction to Iran Deal; IMF Says Greece Needs More Debt Relief; Imagine a World. Aired 11-11:30p ET
Aired July 15, 2015 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: from the United States to Iran to Greece, politicians are hard at work, selling landmark
agreements. The deal on Iran's nuclear program, praised and reviled. I speak exclusively to Qatar's foreign minister.
Plus Prime Minister Tsipras is trying to sell a harsh bailout deal to the Greek parliament. I speak exclusively also with the IMF managing director,
Christine Lagarde.
And finally, to serenade us out, the spectacular sound of South Africa.
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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.
The tough talk is over and the deal is done. Iran and world powers say they have resolved the crisis over Iran's nuclear program by spot diplomacy
instead of war. And in Tehran, the foreign minister, Javad Zarif, arrived home early this morning to a hero's welcome and claiming big rewards for
his country.
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JAVAD ZARIF, FOREIGN MINISTER, IRAN (through translator): The U.N. Security Council is going to approve a resolution next week and for the
first time in its history will officially recognize the nuclear power of a developing country.
This is a movement from one end to another.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): But success will be measured in the implementation and the verification. That's if President Obama can get it passed by his
Congress and some angry allies. He's already waging that struggle over the airwaves.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The deal negotiated by John Kerry, Wendy Sherman, Ernie Moniz, our allies, our partners, the P5+1,
achieves that goal. It achieves our top priority, making sure that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon.
But we have always recognized that, even if Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon, Iran still poses challenges to our interests and our values, both
in the region and around the world.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Israel is strongly opposed, as are America's Persian Gulf allies, who he had convened in Camp David in May to try to get
on board.
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AMANPOUR: The U.S. has a major military base in Qatar and its foreign minister, Khalid bin Mohammad Al Attiyah joins me now live from Doha.
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AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister, thank you for joining me. I hear you have been listening to President Obama selling this to the American people.
KHALID BIN MOHAMMAD AL ATTIYAH, FOREIGN MINISTER, QATAR: Thank you, Christiane, to have me with you on your program.
Yes, I was.
AMANPOUR: So he has also called and so has the foreign minister -- or rather Secretary of State John Kerry -- been calling across the region.
John Kerry spoke to you.
What did he say that has convinced you or not that this is a good deal?
AL ATTIYAH: Well, let me tell you first, Christiane, that this deal is important not only for the world. It's also to the region as well, Qatar
being constantly and systematically encouraging all the parties that the Iran nuclear issue has to be solved peacefully through dialogue. And we,
among the first country who was encouraging in this direction and this is what we have the result now.
So we are like what you have mentioned in your open statement, that we are angry, no, not at all. In fact, this is what we have been encouraging to
reach to.
AMANPOUR: Well, that's interesting to hear that from your perspective, from Qatar's perspective, but you have heard certainly a lot of anger and
distrust from Saudi Arabia and from the UAE and other Gulf allies.
Do you believe this deal makes the world and your region safer or more dangerous, as some are claiming?
AL ATTIYAH: No, we have to differentiate between so many issue here, Christiane. And the region --
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AL ATTIYAH: -- are all in favor of having our region clear of any mass destruction weapon, especially the nuclear. Not only from Iran. We've
been seeking this for the whole Middle East. So to avoid any rally (ph), which unpleasant rally (ph) in the nuclear field. The concern is on the
implementation and on, as you say, the verification and the process toward making this region really a clear region of a weapon of mass destruction.
AMANPOUR: So have you been able to read enough or hear enough about this deal that you think there are enough safeguards in terms of verification
and implementation?
AL ATTIYAH: I am sure that the agreement wouldn't be signed if the 5+1 with Iran has discussed all the issue which concern our region. I didn't
have chance to read it into details. But until I do so, I believe it is a good one.
AMANPOUR: So let me just read you what President Obama has said publicly. He believes this deal will, quote, "head off a nuclear arms race in the
Middle East."
But I wonder what you think because the Saudi Arabians, certainly Prince Turki, the former intelligence minister and ambassador around the world,
basically said the opposite, that it could lead to an accelerated nuclear race and, quote, "whatever Iran gets, we will get."
In other words, our own nuclear program.
Do you think that is what's in store now around the Middle East?
AL ATTIYAH: This is the right for the region, to have their peaceful nuclear program. As far as it controlled and contained in a peaceful
manner ,then, yes, everybody has this right.
If it goes out of control and if, God forbidden, it's become to a military use, then, yes, by all mean, Saudi and other country in the region have
full rights to have their own military capability, too.
So this is what we are trying to avoid by having a nuclear rally in the region, by implementing and verification should be properly done to
implement this agreement.
AMANPOUR: It sounds like it might open a whole can of worms.
What about the fears, both in Israel and around other Gulf countries -- certainly around Saudi Arabia and others -- who complain that it's not just
about a nuclear deal but it's about Iran getting hundreds of billions of dollars in investment and unfrozen assets and becoming a real active
regional power?
Is that something that concerns you?
AL ATTIYAH: First of all, let me tell that Israel reason is different from our reason. Israel reason in the region is to have the military edge over
the Middle East, where Iran reason is our reason, sorry, not granting any of the Middle East region with a military nuclear power, whether it's Iran
or Israel.
So this is a two different reason in the region.
On the other hand, yes, there is two different view in the region. And this view, one of this view says that this deal might relax Iran and give
Iran the confidence that there is no conspiracy theory around Iran and will make Iran to have a better and positive approach toward our region.
The other views in which we would like not to see that this will give Iran more means, mainly financial means, to continue doing what it's been doing
in Iraq, Iran and Yemen. So with this two view, in Qatar, we would like to see the more positive view, which is Iran getting a little bit more relaxed
and which will reflect on the attitude positively toward the region.
Let me emphasize one very clear point here, that our different with Iran is not a bilateral one. So with Qatar, we have a traditional relation with
us. It's not a bilateral difference. It's a regional difference. And when I say a regional difference, I mean on the position, on Syria, Iraq
and Yemen.
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AMANPOUR: Well, let me ask you this then, Foreign Minister.
Do you believe Iran, after this deal, will drop its support for President Assad, who today hailed the deal and said that it was a great thing for him
and Iran?
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AL ATTIYAH: We would like to see Iran doing so because we would like Iran to be a friend of the Syrian people rather the friend of a brutal regime in
Syria. At the end of the day, Iran will have to deal with the Syrian people and not otherwise.
AMANPOUR: Let me finally ask you something that the whole sporting world wants to ask you and that is of course about FIFA and the widening
allegations and the widening suspicions. And all of this of course in relation to your World Cup bid and the Russian World Cup bid.
Eighty-one acts of suspicious financial activity, so far leveled.
Do you fear that you will have to drop the posting of Qatar's World Cup when you're meant to be hosting it?
And added to that, the continued complaints by human rights organizations, Amnesty International, that despite your promises, you are not putting in
the correct reforms for the laborers who are working so hard in Qatar today?
AL ATTIYAH: We don't fear a thing on this, Christiane, and because we have presented the best file, which we deserve to host a World Cup in Qatar, in
the Middle East, for the Arab region, for the Middle East and North Africa. They deserve to have this World Cup in Qatar. This is one.
Two, all this allegation is to do with FIFA. And it's not five or six years back. This is allegation goes 20 years back, even before Qatar think
to host the World Cup.
On the other hand, on the labor issue, on the worker issue, Qatar is doing a lot to improve this. The problem is not concerning Qatar alone. The
problem concern the companies, most of them are Western, who would like to have profit more than having -- looking after their workers. The problems
comes from the export original countries. And it is a world issue. It's not only a Qatar.
No, Qatar is working hard and in steady progress to improve all aspect of our worker life. They are helping us in developing our country. We will
look after them very well and take care of them.
AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister, thank you very much for joining me from Doha this evening.
AL ATTIYAH: Thank you. Thank you, Christiane. Have a good night.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And from one deal to another, in Greece, the parliament votes on passing reforms that have been demanded by euro creditors, why is the IMF
against the tough bailout conditions?
I'll ask managing director Christine Lagarde when we come back.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.
Right now in Greece's parliament, lawmakers are set for a vote that could unlock vital rescue funds for its crippled economy. Tempers ran high
throughout the day as members of parliament debated new austerity measures. They included further cuts to pensions and various tax reforms.
And if approved, Greece will be a step closer to getting a bailout that's worth up to $96 billion. That's as the International Monetary Fund
released some devastating analysis on the state of Greece's economy. It says the debt is now, quote, "highly unsustainable," and it's called for
further debt relief.
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AMANPOUR: Joining me live from headquarters in Washington, D.C., is the IMF managing director, Christine Lagarde.
Welcome to the program, Ms. Lagarde.
CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: Everybody's been putting a huge amount of pressure on Greece, shoving everything down their throat and you're now saying -- and let me
read some from your assessment.
Quote, "Greece's debt can now only be made sustainable through debt relief measures that go far beyond what Europe has been willing to consider so
far."
Why are you arguing this at this hour?
LAGARDE: Well, Christiane, we have been arguing this for quite a while, actually. And what is very disappointing is that while Greece was on a
path to sustainability and actually overperforming about a year and a half ago, in the last year and a half there has been a significant deterioration
both as a result of the previous government not doing the things that it was supposed to do in terms of measures, and the new government delaying
some of the measures and also reversing reforms that had been taken -- undertaken by the previous team.
So it's the combination of these two over the last 18 months or so, which has been quite devastating for the country.
Now we did say that all along to the Europeans, but clearly the necessary deterioration, which has taken place in the last couple of weeks as a
result of the bank closure and the capital control put in place by the Greek authorities, has made the whole situation a lot more serious.
AMANPOUR: What do you think then needs to be done?
Now here they are in parliament and Prime Minister Tsipras, right as we speak, is trying to shove this down the throat of certainly his party, his
coalition, trying to keep everybody on board and he's also said the following. Let me just play you what Tsipras has said about what he's
doing right now.
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ALEXIS TSIPRAS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I am fully assuming my responsibilities for mistakes and for oversights and for the
responsibility of signing a text that I do not believe in but that I am obliged to implement. I will not run away from my responsibilities because
what is important right now is to ensure the safety of the country and of the working classes so that they do not suffer an economic catastrophe.
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AMANPOUR: So how do you react to that?
He says he's doing something in the cause for which he not believe and at the moment, we have plenty of pictures that we can put up, showing angry
people in the streets right now in Athens.
LAGARDE: Well, his position is understandable because he's clearly take some ownership of measures that are not necessarily the measures that he
had advocated during his electoral campaign. But they're also measures that the 18 member states of the Eurozone are saying it's necessary to do
that if we want to rebuild trust and if we want to go forward and put another 80-plus billion euros into the rescuing of the Greek economy.
So I'm not surprised that he's taking that view and what I very much hope is that we can all keep to a very tight timetable and we can respond to a
challenge that is colossal going forward in order to restore the situation and make sure that that Greek economy is back on a more competitive track
and is capable of creating jobs in order to improve the position.
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LAGARDE: -- it is very hard.
AMANPOUR: Yes. And so what is the step and what is the mechanism to get there? Because you're saying and the IMF says that there's no realistic
way that the economic targets in this deal can be met.
So what is the optimum, do you think? What should happen?
LAGARDE: Well, there are short-term issues and the tight, very tight timetable is the following: tonight, hopefully the passing of the
appropriate legislation to begin restoring trust between the partners; on Friday, quite a few parliaments in the Eurozone will have to get
authorization to re-initiate discussion with the Greek authorities; at the same time, some bridge financing has to be put in place in order to make
sure that there is financing going forward in the next few weeks.
Monday, the ECB has to be paid; the IMF has to be paid in order for us to avoid the default for Greece and for us to get engaged again. And then
after that, there will be a process of probably difficult negotiations in order to set up what I call the two legs approach.
There's one leg, which is that Greece has to undertake structural reforms and has to take --
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LAGARDE: -- fiscal consolidation measures that put it on a sustainable path.
And the other leg of the program, as we have said, is a significant debt restructuring that will actually keep everything together and put the
country back on a sustainable track.
Now in the middle of all that, the ECB has played a very, very constructive role going forward within the limit of its mandate. It has really kept
Greece on the road within the parameters of the ECB's mandate. But it's not time for the countries to actually help with actual measures and with
actual financing on the one hand and measures on the other hand.
Financing by the euro area partners and measures that are convincing and reestablish trust on the part of Greece.
AMANPOUR: Do you think that's likely, given the position of Chancellor Merkel and the divisions within Europe and some hostility towards debt
relief?
And we're talking about hostility, as we look at it in the streets behind me, they're throwing Molotov cocktails. I mean, there's unrest on the
streets right now.
Does Ms. Merkel have to finally say debt relief?
LAGARDE: I have some hope because as late as a couple of hours ago, I understand that there were some more positive noises towards that principle
of debt restructuring. What we have said to all of them is no matter what form it takes, whether it's by extending maturities, providing a longer
grace period, compressing the interest rates, on the one hand, or through other options, such as transfer, which I think is not in the cards, such as
haircuts, which is not in the cards, as I understand from the political point of view in those member states.
But one way has to be found in order to release the burden and allow their country to demonstrate that, yes, it can be back on a sustainable path and,
yes, it is serious about structural reforms and it is serious about raising tax and collective revenues.
AMANPOUR: Very, very difficult task ahead. Christine Lagarde, managing director of the IMF, thank you very much for joining us at really this
critical juncture right now.
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AMANPOUR: And after a break, we get a little relief from the world's weighty deal diplomacy. A musical celebration of South African culture,
Ladysmith Black Mambazo sings us out, next.
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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, imagine a world where one man's dream creates a musical legacy that's lasted more than half a century. That is
the story of South African legends and four-time Grammy award winners, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, all stemming from a new sound at the time --
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AMANPOUR: -- that had come to founder Joseph Shabalala in a dream. The all-male group became famous as Paul Simon's backup singers on "Graceland"
back in 1986 and it's seen members come and go throughout its extraordinary career. The latest group has been touring the U.K. and we caught up with
them at London's Union Chapel, which is one of the city's most famous music venues.
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THULANI, MEMBER, LADYSMITH BLACK MAMBAZO: When we're singing and when we're also dancing, we want to share that with our body and with our fans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We try to encourage the generation after us to know who they are because you must know your heritage. You must know your culture.
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"Homeless" is a song of awareness. It was written back in 1985 by Joseph Shabalala and Paul Simon. So this is a song that is telling the world that
people, they need one another.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Our collaboration with Paul Simon, it was the dream come true for the group and then so the (INAUDIBLE). Joseph
Shabalala give Paul Simon the name (INAUDIBLE) that opened the way.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Nelson Mandela called Ladysmith Black Mambazo the ambassador of culture and music of South Africa. He put the
culture of the people they should sit down and solve their problem, whatever problem that they have. We still believe in that and then so
everybody in South Africa, they striving to make that dream belief.
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AMANPOUR: Beautiful music and powerful words. And that is it for our program tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at
amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.
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