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Amanpour
Terror Strikes Mali; France Demands Border Checks; Attacks against Muslims Increase; Undercover Journalist Infiltrates ISIS Online; Ghost Security Group Targets ISIS; Officials Hunt for Top ISIS Operatives; Tracking the Paris Jihadists; Remembering the Victims; Survivors Stand Firm; French Senate Extends State of Emergency; Doctor's Photo Spreads Hope; Imagine a World. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired November 20, 2015 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: One week after the Paris attacks, terror strikes another capital city. This time in Mali.
Revenge on France again. We'll have the latest details ahead.
Plus, the undercover journalist who managed to infiltrate ISIS online.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking French).
AMANPOUR: And here in the City of Light we reflect on a dark day, one long week later. Remembering the victims, hearing from survivors.
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AMANPOUR: Good evening and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour, reporting live from Paris just a week after ISIS slaughtered now
130 people.
And we're standing here outside the two restaurants, Le Petit Cambodge and Le Carillon hotel there, where so many people were killed in a hail of
automatic gunfire.
And right now as you can see there's still a mountain of floral tributes and candles. Despite the rain, people are still trying to relight the
candles and keep this place alight in memory.
On one of these shuttered buildings it says, "People from all countries here and all faiths were cut down by the bullets of a sect called daish."
A terrifying rampage though today in the former French colony of Mali in Africa. Gunmen stormed a luxury hotel in the capital, Bamako, taking
roughly 170 people hostage and killing at least 10. Security forces immediately swarmed the site. Two of the attackers are dead.
According to the AFP and the -- many of the hostages were able to flee to safety. The Radisson Blu hotel is known to be a very popular one with
international visitors, diplomats, expats and business people. Two Al Qaeda-aligned groups have reportedly claimed responsibility.
Now Mali has been the site of unrest for years and the French president, Francois Hollande, sent his forces there in 2013 to push back Al Qaeda
extremists, who were intent on taking the capital.
Olivier Salgado is the U.N. spokesman in Mali and was just 500 meters from the hotel when the siege started and he joins me now on the phone from
Bamako.
Olivier, Mr. Salgado, can you tell me what the situation looks like there now?
I understand the siege is over but what is the final toll, do you know?
OLIVIER SALGADO, U.N. SPOKESPERSON FOR MALI: Well, as we speak, the search and securitization operations are still ongoing so we can only talk about
the preliminary talk.
As far as what we can confirm there are 21 confirmed people killed but this number could rise. We have some wounded people, three of them being
seriously injured. And there is a significant number of slightly injured persons.
But it's almost over but, you know, that's a large hotel and we need to check every bedrooms of this hotel before having a final toll.
AMANPOUR: Mr. Salgado, you just said 21 confirmed dead. We had reported at least 10 bodies were discovered.
Are you -- are you confirming 21?
What are your sources on that?
SALGADO: We have, you know, we were part of this operation during the days, reporting many authorities. We told many security force from the
U.N., so we have our own reports and I can confirm that there are 21 people dead and several others wounded.
AMANPOUR: And you were there also when this sort of unfolded and you were saying earlier that these assailants, how many of them were there?
And they came, again, using sort of stolen identities, is that correct, cars with diplomatic license plates?
SALGADO: Apparently what happened is that they took the proximity of the gates, (INAUDIBLE) following four diplomatic cars. But they actually, they
followed the diplomatic cars. There were two assailants (ph), which had the weapons, AK-47s. They entered the hotel and immediately shoot everyone
they could.
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SALGADO: And one of our staff was inside the hotel, actually reported it lasted -- at least to him, it lasted 45 minutes because actually we had
some staff in the hotel, in this area of the hotel, who were evacuated during this operation.
AMANPOUR: Just let's confirm that again, what you've just said. You're saying that these people with Kalashnikovs came in, following the
diplomats, and they weren't stopped and they weren't searched, even though they did not have diplomatic licenses?
SALGADO: That's our preliminary reports. We were wondering how they did enter. Apparently they took the opportunity of diplomatic cars entering
the compound to find a way. But still these are our preliminary conclusions.
AMANPOUR: Can I just ask you one final question?
What do you think the target was, why now, in Mali?
Had you had any terror threat beforehand?
SALGADO: You know, many entered a crucial phase. We are in the middle of a peace process. Peace accord has been signed. The parties were gathering
currently in Bamako for meetings. It's the day after a very important meeting took place in Bamako.
Part of the delegation was in this hotel. Now maybe it's too early to have any conclusion on the motivations of the assailants. Is it appealing to
the French event today that happened in France, listening to (INAUDIBLE) peace process?
It's too early for me to confirm that.
AMANPOUR: All right. Mr. Salgado, thank you so much. U.N. spokesman in Bamako there, in Mali, thank you very much.
And a terrifying situation, almost exactly one week ago, it was this explosion at the Stade de France here that started the night of terror.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR (voice-over): From then on a series of coordinated attacks unfolded across the city, including at the restaurants behind me, resulting
in unimaginable carnage, the machine-gunning of the two eating areas where people were sitting on chairs, on tables outside on the pavements as well.
Now they are, as I said, piled high with flowers and lit up with candles in memoriam. And new information is still emerging.
This CCTV footage that was released just yesterday, obtained by the dailymail.com, shows the moment a gunman opened fire from outside one of
the Paris restaurants.
The suspected ringleader of the attacks was killed in a Saint-Denis apartment raid on Wednesday.
And today, in a stunning reversal, the prosecutor's office now says it was not the woman there who blew herself up but a man. In all, three bodies
have been found. One is not yet identified.
And police are still hunting down Salah Abdeslam, who is on the run. Most of the Friday the 13th killers had been to Syria and back. Days ago we
broke the news that one of the stadium suicide bombers was posing as a refugee on a fake or stolen Syrian passport, landing in Greece and
eventually getting here to France.
Now prosecutors say a second stadium bomber came in with him the very same way.
European ministers met today in an emergency session in Brussels, demanded at the request of France, to consider immediate checks of all citizens at
the borders of the Schengen Zone. Counterterrorism coordinator for the European Council, Gilles de Kerchove was there. And I spoke to him about
what they had decided just after the meeting.
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AMANPOUR: Mr. de Kerchove, welcome back to the program.
Could I start by first asking you, there is obviously an international manhunt and a warrant out for one of the attackers, Salah Abdeslam.
Can you give me any information about the status of that hunt?
GILLES DE KERCHOVE, COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR FOR THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL: No. I have not any additional information that you may have. I must
confess, I spent the whole day with the ministers of the justice and interior, trying to design new measures and speed up the measures already
adopted, so I'm afraid not.
AMANPOUR: Today, obviously, European interior ministers were meeting at the request of France to decide whether or not they were going to step up
checks around --
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AMANPOUR: -- the Schengen area.
What has been decided?
Can you tell me?
DE KERCHOVE: So, many measures. First, to speed up what was already decided after the "Charlie Hebdo" attack and have not been implemented
quickly enough.
First, having systematic checks against travel documents of E.U. citizens. What we want to cover, it's the more than 5,000 Europeans who have been to
Syria or are still in Syria and may return.
The second one is to change the legislation, to make it compulsory, to check the E.U. citizens where they cross the external border of Schengen,
going abroad or coming back home.
And finally to provide more support to what I would call the country of the front line, those who are today a bit overwhelmed by the flow of migrants
so that they can properly handle migration flow, that's one.
But at the same time do the security check they need to do systematically.
AMANPOUR: You say everybody works really well but according to you, according to many of the central databases, there's only about 1,500
registered jihadis, like, you know, Europeans who have gone to Syria and who pose a terrorist threat.
But there are many, many more of them who have gone. So that seems like a tiny number that are even registered.
DE KERCHOVE: True. And it's exactly what I'm saying. Among the different security and intelligence services they share all the names they have. The
challenge is to make sure that this information is also shared in the law enforcement tool and mechanism, like the Schengen information system or
Europol.
There is indeed a discrepancy between the information that Europol receives and on the other hand the number of what we know about the jihadis,
European jihadis in Syria and Iraq.
AMANPOUR: So let me just ask you very, very simply, is it time now for Europe to basically say goodbye or suspend this Schengen free movement
business?
Because, as the Interpol former chief has said, it's an invitation to just come in for those who would commit terrorist acts. And he has said that it
is almost nonexistent, this European checking of huge numbers of stolen passports against existing databases.
For instance, Britain, the United States after their major terrorist attacks, checked hundreds of millions of passports every year between them.
But Europe barely does at all.
Is this the moment of change for the entire Schengen idea?
DE KERCHOVE: I don't think so. I'm, of course, very keen to keep one of the best achievements of the E.U. integration process, free movement of
people inside the Schengen zone. It won't solve the migration flow at all but it won't solve security, either.
What we need is just to refine what we call the flanking measures, that is, -- and among the flanking measures, it's in particular what we do at the
external border.
Let's keep building or check at external border and this is, of course, very necessary to avoid the call for re-establishment of internal border
control. I would say we are faced with indeed two challenges, keep Schengen as a major achievement and deny -- because there is not linked
between this flow of migrants, which most of them are seeking protection and asylum, and terrorism.
I think daish does not need to do that. They don't need to infiltrate Europe through the migration flow. They can just tap on the reservoir of
radical people in Europe or just use the foreign terrorist fighters.
AMANPOUR: OK. But one of these has been confirmed to have used stolen identities, stolen passport, and posed as a refugee.
And previous attacks in Europe, whether in Madrid, even the assassination of the Serbian prime minister many years ago, Interpol says all of these
involved stolen IDs.
Right now there's a massive market of stolen passports in Europe and Turkey and elsewhere. Surely this is a major issue that really can't afford to
have any loopholes from Europe, has to all be checked against databases.
DE KERCHOVE: You're right and I have raised this issue several times. I did it again in very plain terms today to all the ministers. They have to
use systematically the lost and stolen travel document database of Interpol.
I discussed this with the secretary-general of Interpol today as well. We have more systematic, not only in Europe but all the countries around the
Mediterranean. We're on the same ship as this. We need to share more with --
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DE KERCHOVE: -- Interpol and systematically use the check against the database.
And, indeed, the case of the suicide bomber near the Stade de France, where we found the passport of someone who had been checked in seven places in
Europe but his travel documents were not checked against Interpol. It is indeed a problem but we need to fix it as soon as possible.
AMANPOUR: On that note, Gilles de Kerchove, thank you so much for joining me tonight.
DE KERCHOVE: My pleasure, Christiane.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And after that interview, we reported, as we did and as you heard, that actually a second person posing as a refugee on stolen identity
blew himself up as well at the Stade de France.
Coming up, we get more reaction from the Muslim community.
But first a quick snippet of a video that simply touched the hearts of millions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): They have guns. They can shoot us because they're really, really mean, Daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): It's OK. They might have guns but we have flowers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): But flowers don't do anything. They're for -- they're for -- they're for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): Of course they do. Look, everyone is putting flowers. It's to fight against guns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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AMANPOUR: Well, you see that picture. Welcome back.
The Muslim community is feeling the heat with reports of a spike in Islamophobic attacks since the terror that struck this city.
For security reasons, a public gathering organized for today to show outrage and support for the victims was canceled.
Today, though, Friday prayers went ahead but under high security. And our senior European correspondent Jim Bittermann was there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a mosque in a Paris suburb just a few miles from where last week's attacks were
apparently planned, those who gathered for Friday prayers were filled with indignation at how the religion to which they have been devote has been
hijacked by murderers.
"The terrorists have nothing to do with Islam," the imam told the faithful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We firmly condemn these cowardly and outrageous acts that plunged France into mourning. These attacks have
directly struck not only our republican values but our entire humanity. We're at war with an invisible enemy. Terrorism has no religion, no
borders, no nationality.
BITTERMANN (voice-over): It was a message that was delivered to the faithful across the nation. Islamic leaders like these, who met in another
Paris suburb to coordinate their sermons, know that they have a fight on their hands, not only against radicals who are trying to draw young people
to a merciless interpretation of religion but also against those who can't or won't make a distinction between the terrorists and true believers.
BITTERMANN: In the week since the terrorist carnage in Paris, there's been a twelvefold increase in the number of attacks against Muslims, according
to an institute that measures what the French call Islamophobia.
Mosques have been vandalized and people beaten up; a further measure of the tension, police cancelled a rally by Muslims against terrorism because they
did not feel they could assure the safety of the participants.
BITTERMANN (voice-over): Local Islamic associations worry that the attacks will widen the gap between the Muslim community and others in France.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Our souls were --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): -- struck and the feeling of fear is understandable, the fear that we will be stigmatized as well as the fear
for the nation in which we fully belong.
BITTERMANN (voice-over): Furious about what the radicals have done to the image of Islam, the religious leaders have pressed hard to express their
sympathy for the victims and outrage for the perpetrators of the attacks, visiting the memorials and laying wreaths and speaking out angrily, as the
rector of the Grand Mosque of Paris did to Christiane Amanpour.
DALIL BOUBAKEUR, RECTOR OF PARIS' GRAND MOSQUE: In what part of Quran is it said that we shall kill innocent people, young people?
BITTERMANN (voice-over): Muslims know that none of these things can be found in their holy book but are increasingly upset that non-Muslims think
they can and increasingly aggregated that some here are so quick to link their religion with vicious crimes -- Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And the rector of the Grand Mosque is also increasingly desperate because he knows, in many instances, he's fighting a losing
battle against the radicalization that's happenings to some young Muslims here.
It is estimated also that hundreds of Western women and girls have left their homes here and across Europe to join ISIS.
The question is why?
To find out, one French journalist posed as a young Muslim convert and started a month-long relationship with an ISIS jihadi in Syria. She wrote
about it in her book, "In the Skin of a Jihadist."
Now she's forced to conceal her identity because of a fatwa on her head. But she told our producer, Mick Kriva (ph), how ISIS preys on vulnerable
young European girls.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking French).
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking French).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: An incredible inside look at the kind of grooming that goes on, getting so many hundreds of young girls to get up from Europe and go over
there.
Coming up, the online activist declaring digital war on ISIS, trying to beat them at their own game. That's next.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. We are live from Paris and you've just seen the latest cover of "Charlie Hebdo," satirizing those killers of
last week.
While U.S., French and Russian airstrikes degrade ISIS from targets over the Syrian skies, on the ground, the terror group has a weapon that can't
so easily be destroyed. That is propaganda. They are spreading it via the powerful tool of social media to make contact with new recruits and to plan
attacks.
And as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told me on Tuesday, America is now waging a digital war with ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're going after the ideology. We've created a center in Abu Dhabi that is on the social meter in Arabic,
instantaneously responding to their lies and discrediting them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So while governments are trying to counter the ISIS narrative, other activist groups are actually trying to shut down that narrative at
the source, as CNN's Laurie Segall tells us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anonymous, the hacktivist group shrouded in secrecy, has declared war on ISIS following the attacks
in Paris.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a message to ISIS. You have reached a limit.
SEGALL (voice-over): They claim to have disabled thousands of pro-ISIS Twitter accounts.
But there's another technically sophisticated group fighting an online war with ISIS. They call themselves Ghost Security Group. It's lesser known
but has a track record. Its leader is an ex-Anonymous member, a man who calls himself Digita Shadow.
DIGITA SHADOW, GHOST SECURITY GROUP: My online name is Digita Shadow. The Islamic State is hunting for us. We receive multiple death threats daily.
That's exactly the reason why we can't use our real online names.
To date I've taken down 149 Islamic State propaganda sites, 110,000 social media accounts and over 6,000 propaganda videos.
SEGALL (voice-over): CNN cannot independently verify this information. Digita Shadow says he's one of 14 members of the secretive group who said
it's been infiltrating private ISIS communications since the "Charlie Hebdo" attack earlier this year.
SHADOW: They are murdering people, persecuting them for their religious beliefs, expelling them from their lands, just appalling. Something has to
be done. They have to be slowed down and stopped.
Ghost Security's members say they are a global mix of ex-military, ex- counter intelligence and I.T. specialists.
So what makes them different from Anonymous?
They share their intel with the U.S. government. They funnel potential threats and information on ISIS operatives through one man, intelligence
advisor Michael Smith, who then passes the info on to U.S. law enforcement officials.
MICHAEL SMITH, INTELLIGENCE ADVISER: They use me to present information to federal authorities here in the United States. That information is
sometimes shared with officials abroad.
SEGALL (voice-over): Smith says the group has actually thwarted several ISIS attacks. He cites an example in Tunisia.
SMITH: The group was able to identify communications concerning a plot targeting British tourists and Jews at a popular marketplace in Djerba,
Tunisia. And there were more than a dozen arrests made as a result of the --
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SMITH: -- information that was collected by Ghost Security.
More people were apprehended than at this point are known to be involved with the plot in Paris. The loss of life conceivably could have been
greater than what just occurred in Paris.
SEGALL (voice-over): But even though Ghost Security says it uses hacking skills for good, it may still be operating outside the bounds of the law.
SHADOW: It really does fall into a big gray area, yes.
Is hacking illegal?
Absolutely.
Fighting ISIS to try to stop threats and stop their propaganda, would that be considered illegal?
It's called the giant gray area.
SEGALL: You're telling me you're working kind of 24/7 on this.
Are you compensated?
SHADOW: We are not compensated whatsoever. We're an independent organizational survival (INAUDIBLE).
SEGALL (voice-over): Despite struggling to make ends meet, Digita Shadow says they won't stop.
SHADOW: If we were to stop now, lives would be at risk. It's not a choice. It's more of a way of life for us now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Now this could be a really important weapon in the fight against ISIS, given that intelligence organizations say that the people are being
radicalized so fast and radicalized violently within weeks and they simply cannot stop it and they cannot intervene because of the rapid nature of
that radicalization online.
Now coming up, after a break, the ringleader of the attacks here in Paris is dead but authorities are still searching for other top ISIS operatives.
We'll have more on that ahead.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program, live from Paris, one week after the terror attacks.
And one week later, there has been an urgent situation in Mali, where gunmen stormed a luxury hotel in the capital, Bamako, taking nearly 170
people hostage.
A U.N. spokesperson in Mali told me a short while ago that 21 people at least have been confirmed killed. The situation is reportedly over, the
hostage situation, and AFP says two of the attackers are dead.
Now the Radisson Blu hotel is popular with ex-pats, diplomats and business people from all over the world. And the French president, Francois
Hollande, who has sent forces to the former French colony, vows to help Mali fight extremists by all means necessary.
And now back here to Paris, a week after those terrible attacks. Investigators are working overtime to determine how exactly this happened
and who exactly was involved. The prosecutor's office today announced a third body --
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AMANPOUR: -- has been found inside the raided apartment in Saint-Denis. Yet this person has not yet been identified.
And they corrected an earlier report; a woman did not blow herself up on Wednesday; it was a man. We're also learning more about the suspected
ringleader, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who is now dead.
A source tells CNN that footage shows Abaaoud was inside the Paris Metro on Friday night during the attacks. The search for suspects linked to him
isn't just restricted to this city. Police are investigating his connections inside and outside France, as CNN's Brian Todd explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, French officials believe a terrorist menace has been removed from
their midst.
But a new warning: the French interior minister says authorities are investigating Abaaoud's links to several other known jihadists, top ISIS
operatives, who may have worked with Abaaoud on the Paris plot and are still out there.
European security officials tell CNN one of them is Fabien Clain, a notorious French ISIS militant, who is believed to have claimed
responsibility in an audio message for the Paris attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FABIEN CLAIN, ISIS MILITANT (through translator): Paris shook under their feet and the streets were tight upon them. And unto Allah is all praise
and gratitude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD (voice-over): Fabien Clain, analysts say, was born on the French island of Reunion, settled in the southern French city of Toulouse and
developed an extraordinary talent for persuasion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody who was extremely manipulative, extremely good at brainwashing youngsters in the Toulouse area, somebody 10 years older
than Abdelhamid Abaaoud and so someone likely that Abdelhamid Abaaoud would have looked up to within the ISIS hierarchy.
TODD (voice-over): Clain was a close associate of Mohammed Merah, the gunman who killed several French soldiers and Jewish school children near
Toulouse in 2012.
Another militant who may be linked to the Paris plot, Salim Benghalem, about 10 years older than Abaaoud.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Salim Benghalem seems to have been the person to whom Abaaoud served as an apprentice, an individual who is affiliated with the
external operations network amongst French speakers. He's known to be a fairly skilled operative.
TODD (voice-over): Benghalem, once convicted of murder in France, is, according to the State Department, an ISIS executioner. Analysts say
Benghalem had close ties to the Kouachi brothers, who stormed "Charlie Hebdo" offices in January, killing a dozen people.
In an ISIS video made shortly after those attacks, Benghalem had a warning for the West.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALIM BENGHALEM, ISIS EXECUTIONER (through translator): We have also come to strike you and we're already there to attack you.
TODD (voice-over): Analysts say Benghalem and his associates are good at training their French operatives quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A number of French speakers who joined ISIS are individuals who only spent a couple of weeks in Syria learning to do
something, whether it's to prepare for a suicide attack, learning basic arms training and so forth, and then go back.
TODD: And experts say they have ambitions beyond France and the ability to travel. They say many French ISIS militants have European passports
without visa restrictions and can easily come to the U.S. -- Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: So let's join CNN's diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, for more on this gangs and these links.
Nic, what more are you hearing about Abaaoud and his connections?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, Christiane, we know that the Metro station, the underground subway system station that he
was seen -- he was caught on CCTV video about 10:00 pm last Friday night, we know that that station is very close to where one of the vehicles used
in the attacks was dumped, a black Fiat vehicle was found with three Kalashnikovs in it.
This is the vehicle that police say was used to shoot up those restaurants and there were over 100 spent cartridges found in that vehicle; the weapons
were fired from within the vehicle at the people in the restaurants.
We know that this was the vehicle that was rented by Salah Abdeslam, the man that's on the run. He's believed to have driven back to Belgium later
that night, phoned somebody up, called them, asked them to come pick him up.
So when you piece together the timeline here, that that attack by the gunman from the car on the restaurants was finished by about 9:40, you
begin to see a picture emerging here that possibly -- and this is possibly, because we understand from the police there were three people spotted in
that car.
One of them we know detonated his explosives, Brahim Abdeslam detonated his explosives by the restaurant -- it becomes possible, therefore, and I say
possible, becomes possible that Abaaoud was the one who possibly drove that car following the attack, dumped it, minutes later seen jumping essentially
throughout the turnstile there without paying for a ticket at the train station, making a getaway.
Apparently it would appear possibly --
[14:40:00]
ROBERTSON: -- directly or indirectly to Saint-Denis, where he was later killed.
So we're beginning to see a pattern here that could -- could indicate to the police investigators here that Abaaoud was actually involved hands on
weapons in that attack on Friday. But this is for investigators to determine. But the timeline begins to look this way -- Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Let's just talk about the new information from the prosecutors about what they did and didn't do at that -- at that apartment, which was
raided on Wednesday.
You know, first the whole narrative and, frankly, the world was shocked. Imams we talked to were shocked; everybody was shocked that, for the first
time ever, apparently ISIS would deploy a female suicide bomber.
Today it turns out that was not the case; it was a man. You know, let's talk about that a little bit and who the other dead body might be.
ROBERTSON: Well, there's obviously -- a lot of people have asked could this be Salah Abdeslam. It's not impossible. He's on the run. There's a
search warrant -- there's an arrest warrant for him in France, one in Belgium. He was known to head back to Belgium.
But could he have come back to Paris?
That's not impossible. At the moment, the police are saying they don't know who that third man is.
What the prosecutor told us later the day of the attack, Wednesday, the day of the raid, rather, in Saint-Denis on Wednesday, was that there was so
much destruction, 5,000 rounds fired and many grenades fired, explosives used to blow open security doors to get in the apartment, explosives used
by the would-be attackers, by the terrorists inside the apartment, so a lot of destruction.
I was down there on that street later that night. Police were still doing controlled explosions almost 24 hours after the operation. Carpenters were
rebuilding the apartment. So in that very damaged building with the bodies that have suffered multiple impacts, many impacts were described as being
on the body of Abaaoud by the prosecutor's office that in that the police had now determined that there were actually three bodies, not two. So
precisely who that person is isn't clear.
And as we know the police have been piecing together evidence here, using forensic DNA testing, using fingerprints, analyzing fingerprints, palm
prints, sole prints. So one imagines that's what they're doing here.
Why it takes so long?
Perhaps they don't want to announce the name and perhaps because of the level of damage to the body. It's been very hard to get that sort of
detailed information.
We just don't know. But we do know for the police that in finding out who that third person was will be very important in figuring out where they
were, who they knew prior to these attacks, essentially working backwards from the attacks to get the other people involved on the periphery --
Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Absolutely. Nic, thank you very much.
And now we are standing by the site of one of the massacres last Friday and we want to remember the dead with the stories of just a few of the victims,
who, this time last week were preparing for a concert, heading to a meal or a football match. They were simply living their lives.
French engineer, Mathias Dymarski, and his girlfriend, Marie Lausch, were celebrating their fifth anniversary the Bataclan theater; 28-year-old
Valeria Solesin was a PhD student from Italy. She had been living in Paris for six years before she went to the Bataclan as well on Friday night. Now
her parents have taken her home to Venice.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Our daughter, in her being daughter, person, citizen, scholar, I could go on about a thousand facets
she had. She was a wonderful person. We will miss her so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Not too far away from the Bataclan in La Belle Equipe restaurant, Djamila Houd was one of the many attending a friend's birthday
party. She had worked at a fashion design house in Paris. Her waitress that evening might have been 27-year-old Michelli Jaimez from Mexico,
living in Paris for about five years.
Just last month she became engaged and she was looking forward to a future with her fiance.
Lives so tragically cut short.
Coming up, after a break, tales of fear and love from survivors. That is next.
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[14:45:00]
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
Last week's attacks here in Paris didn't just cut short the lives of 130 people. The attacks wounded hundreds more and ripped entire families
apart. But as we've been finding out all through this week, those left behind are refusing to let hate into their hearts.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can have a kalashnikof all the -- I don't know about daish and et cetera. We stand free. We stand with the taste of
life. We stand with agnes (ph); we play games with my son and then know they don't win, no. No, we stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I saw my son, Ryan, tears in his eyes.
I had tears in my eyes and I take hold of my son and I say, "I love you, my son. I love. Daddy is here."
And I took him in my arms and he said to me, "Daddy, I love you. I love you, too."
But it was very hard and what was really difficult was to feel so powerless.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said out loud, "I love you."
I didn't say the names. I just pictured their face and I said, "I love you," and whispered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had actually whisperred that out loud.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was important. It was important that, if I was going to die, if the next bullet was for me, that I left saying, "I love
you," so I said it to every single person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Just a few of the people, talking to all our colleagues all this week.
And in the wake of the terror attacks, the French senate has now voted to extend the state of emergency. And we joined by Senator Nathalie Goulet.
Thank you for coming back one week later. Tell me how the vote went.
Was it unanimous and what has it said?
NATHALIE GOULET, FRENCH SENATOR: Yes, it was unanimous except one and we had very strong speeches supporting the government with a lot of
congratulation and support for the police, also the firemen, also all the medical bodies who came during the nightmare and helped the people,
whatever they were, you know.
They all joined the hospital and so it was a very strong time for the MPs.
AMANPOUR: And so the state of emergency is extended for three months.
GOULET: Yes, for three months.
AMANPOUR: And what do you think -- how will you benefit from that?
What will you be able to do?
GOULET: Well, first of all, all the policemen and justice are going to be absolutely free for prioritization and also for their investigation.
Of course, it's always on the legal frame so we don't break the legal frame. But it's, let's say, the speediest way to get the investigation,
catch the people and also be able to react because we have to react very quickly.
And then the minister of interior, minister of justice were in Brussels today and the minister told us that it was also a very emotional time.
All the minister were speaking French and to express their support and Minister Krasnova (ph) say that it was a very great and emotional time.
AMANPOUR: But they also did something. They all reunited or they came together at France's request but it was in order to make sure that all
these shengen border countries have border checks, right, for all E.U. citizens?
GOULET: Yes, and also they will speed the proceeding together --
[14:50:00]
GOULET: -- this PNR that we're begging for. You know, we're asking for this PNR --
AMANPOUR: What is that exactly?
GOULET: It's a personal memory code which is --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: -- the database, right?
GOULET: -- to track the airplane history and it's an area for the people so we can have the record and the history of a trip. And it's very
important. United States got it from Europe but the European countries together, we do not have them because the liber (ph) consulate of the
European parliament expressed some --
AMANPOUR: Reservation.
GOULET: -- reservation about it except that it's very useful and we need it badly right now.
AMANPOUR: So here we are, one week later; we're standing out here and the flowers have just grown to a little hills of flowers there and the candles.
How are you holding up?
How is France holding up?
GOULET: Well, we are in a kind of fog, to be frank with you, and we are now avoiding the budget. It feels like a twilight zone or something like
that.
AMANPOUR: Twilight zone?
GOULET: Twilight zone, yes, it's sense surreal, you know, it's totally out of the world to speak about budget.
AMANPOUR: Except your budget needs to be increased for intelligence and security, right?
GOULET: Oh, oui, oui, more than 600 million now.
You know, from "Charlie" to today, we spend 900 million and now we put another 600 million on the table. But, still, discussing about all the
budgets of the state and the staff, it's very strange.
Atmosphere is really strange right now between the elected people. But, you know, in my constituency in Normandy, in the middle of nowhere today,
police catch two people linked with Fabien Clain.
AMANPOUR: Who we just heard about, one of those big (INAUDIBLE) --
GOULET: Yes, while they were in the middle of nowhere in Normandy means that this decognition (ph) and this state of emergency is really useful
because --
AMANPOUR: It's working.
GOULET: -- otherwise we would have not been able to find them.
AMANPOUR: That's really, really interesting with all these pieces of the puzzle coming together.
Nathalie Goulet, Senator Goulet, thank you so much for joining us.
GOULET: Thank you so much for your invitation.
AMANPOUR: And coming up next, the Paris doctor whose photograph of a packed emergency room last Friday night came to symbolize resilience in the
face of this war.
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AMANPOUR: As the horrible news began to filter out across social media a week ago, doctors across the city rushed to their nearest hospital to help.
Chilling photographs of the aftermath started to emerge.
CNN's Poppy Harlow spoke to one doctor, whose photograph of a packed emergency room became a ray of hope amid the devastation.
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POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They say a picture is worth a thousand words. This one is worth countless.
Have you ever seen anything like you saw on Friday night?
DR. POURYA PASHOOTAN, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN (voice-over): No, that way, never.
HARLOW (voice-over): Dr. Pourya Pashootan was off duty when the shots rang out across Paris. He raced to the hospital.
PASHOOTAN: I went directly to the hospital where there was the most injured people.
HARLOW (voice-over): How many people did you treat on Friday night?
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): There was 27 person who came to the hospital and we are not used to this kind of a injury here, maybe in other, in other
country, maybe in the USA, we can see this kind of thing. (INAUDIBLE).
HARLOW (voice-over): You're not used to treating gunshots.
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): No, not so much. A few a year but not (INAUDIBLE) people coming all together in one place. There were many people we tried
to help for. Each person, there was injury of the face, injury of the thorax, of the belly. It was a war scene.
HARLOW (voice-over): It was a war scene.
[14:55:00]
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): Yes. It was exactly that. The most you could see was the context, to see the fear in the eyes of the people who were coming,
it was most of them young people. But it was everything, everybody were there.
HARLOW (voice-over): All different religions.
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): All different, all different religions, just everybody.
HARLOW (voice-over): What was the message you were trying to send with the photograph?
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): It was a big mobilization for everybody to save people. We came here to help people. It's our job.
HARLOW (voice-over): We are all together.
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): All together, yes. It was awful. The only thing that was (INAUDIBLE) quite nice was the mobilization of everybody.
HARLOW (voice-over): Somehow with this photograph you found the good.
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): In the middle of this tragedy, there was a little bit of hope. And we were there to show that we'll be always there.
HARLOW (voice-over): You won't give up.
PASHOOTAN (voice-over): Never, never give up.
HARLOW (voice-over): Poppy Harlow, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, amid all the horror, imagine a world falling in love with Paris once again; tested by unimaginable terrors, the
people of this city turned away from fear and towards love and solidarity and we leave you tonight with a tribute to the grieving city that refuses
to give up its joie de vivre.
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AMANPOUR: And that is it for our program tonight. Thank you for watching and goodbye from Paris.
END
