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U.S. and Russia Working to Revive Cease-Fire; Nigerian President on Scale of Corruption in Nigeria; Sadiq Khan's First Week as London Mayor; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired May 13, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: we look back at a news-packed week and big interviews on the issues of the day: the U.S.
secretary of state, John Kerry, on getting Russia to get another Syria cease-fire; the Nigerian President Buhari on Prime Minister Cameron's
"Candid Camera" moment, calling his country "fantastically corrupt."
And the first international TV one-on-one with the man of the moment, London's first Muslim mayor. Why Sadiq Khan is taking on Trump and the
politics of fear.
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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the special weekend edition of our program, which is full of this week's news highlights.
And the week began with grave concerns about Syria and the collapse of the ceasefire. The latest outrage: a refugee camp, bombed by Assad regime
fighters. The carnage was top of the agenda for U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry when I met him for an exclusive interview on Tuesday.
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AMANPOUR: Mr. Secretary, welcome back to the program.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you, happy to be here.
AMANPOUR: You have just announced that you are signing -- have signed another attempt to gain a nationwide cessation of hostilities in Syria.
How do you think that's going to work any better than the previous one?
KERRY: Well, we're building on the experience of the previous one. I can't sit here and tell you, Christiane, that this is going to absolutely
work. I'd be a fool to say that. These are words on a paper. This is an agreement reached in a room.
But the agreement has to be transferred to the battlefield and to the commanders.
But what we have done is set up a very different mechanism. We've stood up an entity in Geneva with Russians in the room, Americans in the room, with
others in the room from the coalition, who will be sharing maps, discussing in real-time, in touch with people in Syria.
So the key is going to be enforcement. Now we're looking at other methods of enforcement beyond that. But we're not there yet but we are building
what I hope will be a stronger structure.
AMANPOUR: I guess my question is -- and we've just seen our report from Fred Pleitgen -- of so much Russian troops, hardware in Syria.
What is it that makes you believe that the Russians are your partners in trying to get a cease-fire and a political resolution, when they're
actually Assad's partner, certainly in trying to regain Aleppo, for instance?
I mean, that's what --
(CROSSTALK)
KERRY: Russia has an interest in not being bogged down forever in Syria. Russia has an interest of not becoming the target of the entire Sunni world
and having every jihadi in the region coming after Russia. Russia also has a fundamental interest -- this is expensive.
Russia's economy is not exactly soaring. They have got other challenges. They've got -- I mean, there's just a lot on the table for Russia.
And if Russia is going to avoid a morass in Syria altogether, they actually need to find a political solution. Now right now, they're angling for the
political solution they want. And it's --
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KERRY: -- not necessarily a workable equation. We understand that.
But we would not have gotten the initial cease-fire without Russia -- and literally tens of thousands of lives were saved. You can add it up on the
number, 200 people a day were being killed. That stopped for a period of time.
People hadn't received any humanitarian assistance for years. Almost 1 million people have now received humanitarian assistance and so there's
been some benefit to this.
Is it perfect?
No.
Are there still problems to work out?
Yes.
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AMANPOUR: But Kerry was also in London for a special anti-corruption summit, a subject that has dominated headlines this week, claiming its
biggest scalp in Latin America's biggest nation, Brazil, where President Dilma Rousseff has been ousted from office, suspended while the senate
pursues a trial to impeach her.
From the start, she has called this anti-democratic and a political coup.
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DILMA ROUSSEFF, PRESIDENT OF BRAZIL (through translator): I have suffered the pain of torture, the pain of a disease. And now I suffer one more time
the pain of injustice. What is more painful right now is the injustice. It's to notice that I am a victim of a farce.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Back in London, the summit got off to a wobbly start, thanks to some "Candid Camera" moments between David Cameron and the queen of
England.
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DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER, GREAT BRITAIN: Very successful cabinet meeting this morning, talked about our anti-corruption summit with the
Nigerians. We've actually got some leaders of some fantastically corrupt countries coming to Britain, Nigeria and Afghanistan, possibly the two most
corrupt countries in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Well, that, of course, went viral. But we found that both the presidents to be fantastically honest, agreeing with Cameron and both
saying that they have been elected to root out the corruption that threatens the very survival of their nations, as Nigeria's President Buhari
told me on Wednesday.
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AMANPOUR: President Buhari, welcome to the program.
MUHAMMADU BUHARI, PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: You are here for an anti-corruption summit and try to tackle this big scourge. Of course, it's been overshadowed by what the prime
minister said to the queen about your country and Afghanistan, calling you "fantastically corrupt."
What is your reaction to that?
BUHARI: Well, I think he's being honest about it. He's talking about what he knows about the two of us, Afghanistan and Nigeria, and by what we are
doing in Nigeria by the day. I don't think you can fault him. I hope he did not address the press.
He said it privately and somehow you got to know it.
AMANPOUR: That's true. He said it privately; he didn't think that it was going to be broadcast but it was.
And you are being very blunt and very honest yourself by saying that he was right. And you told me, Mr. President, during your campaign that we have
to kill corruption or else corruption will kill Nigeria.
How are you doing?
Are you making any inroads?
BUHARI: Yes, we are. And those that are following the developments see it. Nigerians now are acutely aware that what we were saying during our
campaign, that was no exaggeration.
And a few instances where $2.1 billion --
AMANPOUR: Billion?
BUHARI: -- billion, not million, dollars were voted for military hard and software for the operations against Boko Haram. Those responsible sat done
as if they were going to have lunch or dinner and shared it and put it in their accounts.
AMANPOUR: You're kidding.
The money that you designated to fight your major terrorist group, Boko Haram, they put it in their pockets?
BUHARI: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And what do you do with these people who do that?
Do the heads roll in terms of losing their jobs, getting fired?
BUHARI: Well, most of them are now behind the bars. We're getting the documents corrected in a way so that we can secure successful prosecution.
AMANPOUR: You've also talked about having gone through a lot of papers and found sort of legions of so-called "ghost workers," people who are pulling
salaries who don't even exist or for jobs that don't even exist. I think 23,000 of these so-called ghost workers --
BUHARI: So far.
AMANPOUR: Are there many thousands more?
BUHARI: I suspect, yes.
AMANPOUR: So you've been getting rid of them systematically?
BUHARI: We have to. They never existed, so the question of getting rid of them does not arise. All we are doing now, those who have been signing
those vouchers and pocketing the money, we have to return it. It's a question of for how long have they been doing it and for how many.
AMANPOUR: You obviously knew that this corruption was a major problem because you --
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AMANPOUR: -- took it as your main plank and platform during your campaign.
Since becoming president, are you more shocked or less shocked by the extent of corruption that's crippled so many of the structures and
infrastructure of Nigeria over the years?
BUHARI: Much more shocked.
AMANPOUR: You're more shocked?
BUHARI: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And after a break, a different kind of corruption, the kind that eats away at people's hearts and minds. Why Sadiq Khan, London's first
Muslim mayor, hopes that Donald Trump loses the U.S. election so that hope can triumph over fear. That's when we come back.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.
And London seems to have become the "it" city this week, after electing its first Muslim mayor, Sadiq Khan, by an overwhelming majority and the biggest
personal mandate in British history.
After calling out Donald Trump on, quote, his "ignorant" attitude to Muslims, Trump himself finally did a little U-turn, saying that his call to
ban Muslims from the United States was, quote, "just a suggestion."
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DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sure, I'd back off on it. I'd like to back off as soon as possible, because, frankly, I would like to
see something happen. But we have to be vigilant.
We have a serious problem, it's a temporary ban, it hasn't been called for yet, nobody's done it, this is just a suggestion until we find out what's
going on.
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AMANPOUR: Well, whatever that means.
In part one of our interview at city hall, Mayor Khan told me that London had proven the hate and fearmongers wrong and, by electing him, had chosen
hope and unity.
Now in part two of our interview, he tells me about his incredible rise from the son of a bus driver to mayor of one of the world's major capitals.
Many are saying indeed that Sadiq Khan might just be the right role model for the right time.
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AMANPOUR: Mayor Khan, welcome to the program.
SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR-ELECT OF LONDON: It's great to be here, it really is.
AMANPOUR: You know, you are trending all over the world. Your election has grabbed headlines and attention everywhere. People are calling you
perhaps the most important -- one of the most important Muslim politicians in the Western world.
I want to know how you take that and how do you describe yourself today?
KHAN: I've had some lovely messages from all around the world, the mayor of New York, Bill de Blasio; lovely tweet from Hillary Clinton; the mayor
of Paris was here yesterday.
AMANPOUR: But more seriously, because the Islamic factor, the Muslim factor has been a big factor.
Are you surprised about that?
And what is your take on that?
KHAN: You know, my views -- I'm born and raised in London, this is my city, is -- in 2016, we're global citizens. We have multiple identities.
So I'm a Londoner, I'm British, I'm European, I'm a father, I'm a dad. I'm of Islamic faith. I'm of Asian origin, of Pakistani --
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KHAN: -- heritage. And so no one thing defines who we are.
But in the current climate, with the sort of election the Conservative Party chose to have, I think the result last Thursday is a huge vindication
for what a wonderful city London is but also that Western liberal values are compatible with mainstream Islam.
You know, last Thursday, we had a record turn-out, a record vote that we secured for me. I think that shows, actually, that people do care about
these things. They understand that you can be a Muslim and be Western, you can be a Muslim and be British, you can be both.
And so and obviously I'm chuffed that I'm proud that I'm pleased and stuff. But you know, now, because the job of actually delivering as the mayor of
London.
And you know, my parents first came to this country in the 1960s.
AMANPOUR: A bus driver, your father, very famously so. In fact, one British wag said bus drivers in the new etona (ph).
Yours seem to be doing really well.
KHAN: Clearly the campaign worked -- wonder if everyone knows that. But there's the Khan story, look, our story is this: my grandparents were
originally from India. We're from India. They migrated from India to Pakistan. So my family's still in India; some came to Pakistan. So my
grandparents are immigrants.
My parents are immigrants from Pakistan to London. But when my dad first came here -- he's passed away now. When he first came here, it wasn't
uncommon for there to be signs in bed-and-breakfasts and hotels, saying, "No blacks, no Irish and no dogs."
By blacks they meant anyone who wasn't white. That was my father's experience. We moved from there to, when I was growing up, I'd often be --
it wasn't uncommon for me to be racially abused, to get into fights -- I'd win more than I lost, by the way -- get into fights.
Now I'm raising my family in the same area I was raised in. My daughters are 16 and 14, have never been the victims of overt racism, never been
racially abused, never suffered any racism. That's the progress we've made now.
Imagine if America has a sign saying, "No Muslims."
What message does that send to Muslims around the world?
And you know, someone like me, who is Western, who is Muslim, who practices my faith, why should I be the exception?
There are many other Muslims around the world who love America, whose values are similar to Western liberal values. And this is one of the
reasons why -- there are many -- why I'm hoping Hillary trounces Donald Trump.
AMANPOUR: Let me ask you about Brexit, because the President of the United States, Barack Obama, was here and while not telling the British how to
vote, clearly said that, for us, it's much better to have a strong Britain in a united Europe.
What are you going to do, using your platform as mayor of London to campaign for that?
Because I believe you're on that side, to remain in.
KHAN: So the European Union has brought huge cultural benefits to our city and social benefits. My father and grandparents, that sort of generation,
would be suspicious about Germans or about French; no longer the case. We have got friends who are from mainland Europe and also social benefits,
cultural benefits, huge security benefits to our city.
I met yesterday with the police commissioner, huge benefits to our city. But the economic benefits are massive. More than half a million jobs here
in London directly dependent on the E.U.; 60 percent of the world's leading companies have their European headquarters here in London. Half of our
exports go to the E.U.
So --
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AMANPOUR: -- that would be a threat, though, to those headquarters?
KHAN: -- I met the mayor of Paris yesterday. She was teasing me, saying, if you leave the E.U., we'll roll out the red carpet to welcome all these
businesses to come to Paris.
And why wouldn't she?
And so I'm going to spend the next 5.5 weeks campaigning for us to remain in the European Union. When I spoke to the prime minister over the
weekend, the point that we made was London has a crucial role to play in this argument taking place over the next few weeks. And I'll do whatever I
can to make sure that we remain in the E.U.
AMANPOUR: I just want to go back to your daughters' feminism, Islam; we see a lot of Muslim women walking around London and other parts of Great
Britain with the full-face veil. And it's very controversial in many parts of the Western world.
Is that inappropriate?
KHAN: I think it's inappropriate for men to tell women how to dress. When I first became a lawyer, women were not allowed to wear trousers in courts.
They had to wear skirts. These are male judges, telling women what to wear.
So it's not just for me as a man to tell women what to wear. My own children and my wife don't cover. That's a choice they've made. What I
think is important, though, is when you're in a public service job, serving the public, that you are -- you show your face, your public face.
And I also, by the way, think -- I'm not embarrassed to say -- you should speak English. The reason why I'm able to apply for a job and be the mayor
is because I speak English. If you're a parent, you can only speak to your children's teachers if you speak in English. You can only get to know your
neighbors if you speak English. I think integration is crucial.
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AMANPOUR: You say it's not up to a man to tell a woman -- you're talking about yourself.
But what about the husband and those women, who are insisting that they wear this knee cover (ph)?
It's surely not up to them, either.
KHAN: No, especially shouldn't be happening, you know, it's really important to me, in city hall, I've said, I want to be a proud feminist.
And I want to be a proud feminist. That's goes for our making sure that women earn the same as men, to make sure they have the potential to fill
through. So men shouldn't be telling women, husbands to wives or others, brothers to sisters, what they should be -- where that should be the choice
of women.
And, by the way, I've got Islamic jurisprudence on my side. It's the right of women to decide what to wear.
AMANPOUR: Your first official visit, your first official act was to attend a Holocaust memorial service with the chief rabbi.
How important was that to you?
And obviously I have to ask you, in the context of the anti-Semitism row in your own party, the Labour Party.
KHAN: So I believe being a leader means being a leader, acting without fear or favor. And if you see something wrong, you've got to say it wrong.
So if someone uses appalling, disgusting, anti-Semitic language, you call it out.
The fact that the person is in your own party or the fact that your own leaders are calling out is irrelevant. You call it out. As it is, I'm
quite clear about that.
But I'm a modern Londoner, I'm a global citizen. I've grown up going to synagogues and Hindu temples and Sikh gurdwaras and Muslim mosques and
Christian churches. It's not unusual for me to do so. So my signing-in ceremony wasn't held here like previous mayors have done.
I went to a cathedral and had leaders of all the major faiths and civic society there with me, starting as I mean to go along, being accessible,
being transparent, being open.
But also, we've got to recognize that we forget the Holocaust at our peril. Six million Jewish people died during the Holocaust. Some Londoners are
Holocaust survivors, as are their children, grandchildren and great- grandchildren.
And the context is here in London, I'm ashamed to say, there's been an increase of more than 60 percent in anti-Semitic crimes in the last year.
That can't be right.
And so it was a privilege for me, a privilege for me in my first public engagement to go to the Holocaust commemoration event.
When I went there, I was mobbed by Jewish Londoners. When they read out my name to the audience, there was a big cheer. That's the London I know and
love, where Jews and Muslims and Christians and Sikhs and Hindus, we don't just tolerate each other, we respect, we embrace and we celebrate each
other.
And you know, some of the stories that I heard from survivors will stay with me forever. And that's why we must never forget. And the theme of
the day is relevant to members of my party. The theme of the day was remember, reflect and educate. I think it's really important.
AMANPOUR: You ran on bread-and-butter issues. There's a huge problem with housing in the city for young people, for affordable housing. And it's
constantly being promised and it's not delivered.
In fact, all we see are mostly wealthy people, obviously, but foreign people wanting to put -- hide or invest their wealth here, building these
incredible prime properties, which remain empty. And, as a result, young people, my colleagues, can't afford to buy their own houses, educated
professionals.
What are you going to do about that?
KHAN: So London is the greatest city in the world but too many Londoners are being priced out of our city because of the housing crisis. We've had
a Tory mayor for the last eight years. We've had a Tory prime minister. It's not getting any better.
And so we have to tackle that. So I have got a plan to make sure that homes that are built in London are genuinely affordable to buy and rent.
My London plan, which is a document that local authorities are going to use to give permission and developers know about, will say half of all new
homes have to be genuinely affordable to buy or rent.
You know, if we're talking five, six years ago, I'd be saying bus drivers, junior journalists, cleaners can't afford to live in London. Now it's
chief executives, senior journalists, including your friends, and junior doctors can't afford to live in London.
We can't afford our city to be hollowed out. And, by the way, I'm not embarrassed of saying that means giving first dibs to Londoners, saying you
can't use our homes as gold bricks for investment for the Middle East and Asia. And I'll be the mayor that tackles the housing crisis.
AMANPOUR: Is there room for attacks on foreigners who come and just buy up property?
KHAN: That's a central government issue. I won't have the power to do so. But I am saying to the government, we've got to be more transparent when it
comes to foreign ownership. We can't be having London being the world's capital for money laundering. We can't be having offshore companies buying
properties in London and then being left empty. We can't be having developers marketing properties overseas before they're marketed here.
I want to be a mayor that fixes the housing problem.
AMANPOUR: On that note, Mayor Sadiq Khan, thanks for joining us.
KHAN: My pleasure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And after a break, a voyage of discovery for one young student without ever having to leave home. A Mayan mystery solved with ancient
charts and -- what else? Google Maps -- that's next.
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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, we imagine an undiscovered and ancient world found by a Canadian teenager. He is just 15 years old. But William
Gadoury's fascination with Mayan culture could have uncovered a new ancient monument.
It all started when he stumbled across the idea that Mayan ruins in Mexico are aligned with the stars above. And that led him to an even bigger
discovery, what could be a missing and massive Mayan city.
It's not every day that a teenager makes such a discovery and Gadoury showed the Canadian Space Agency how he used satellite pictures to match a
star to a city and find what could be a structure hidden under the canopy of the Mexican jungle.
Imagine that no one else, not one professional archaeologist, had yet found this.
So will it, in fact, turn out to be true?
Some experts seem skeptical. But stand by for further investigation on what this Canadian team found with curiosity, hard work and, of course,
Google Maps.
That's it for our program. Remember, you can always listen to our podcast, you can see us online at anytime on amanpour.com and follow me on Facebook
and Twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.
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