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Amanpour
Trump Heads to Asia. Interview with NZ's New Prime Minister. Aired 3-3:30p Et
Aired November 03, 2017 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight, as President Trump sets off for China and meetings with Asian allies, I speak to New Zealand's new prime
minister about the clouds of war talk on the Korean Peninsula and the incredible new film putting an unknown struggle on the map, the fight for
disability rights in Bolivia.
Good evening, everyone, and welcome to our Week in Review. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Now, President Trump is embarking on his first trip to
Asia this weekend after a campaign centered on overhauling trade with China and facing down North Korea. Over a week and a half, he'll visit Japan,
South Korea, China, Vietnam and the Philippines. At the center of it all will undoubtedly be the North Korean nuclear crisis.
This week, I spoke to someone with a very new voice in the region, she is New Zealand's new prime minister, Jacinda Ardern who is meteoritic rise has
taken her, first, to Labor Party leader and now to prime minister in three short months. And she told me there will be no holds barred with Trump
over the Korean standoff and climate change, we also talked about the inevitable stereotypes and abuse that come with being a strong female
leader.
Prime minister, we welcome you. Just before we went on you said and you reminded me that it's been just three months since you took, you know, the
leadership of your party and here you are the youngest prime minister in 150 years and a woman to boot. My goodness, congratulations. What are the
big challenges on your plate?
JACINDA ARDERN, NEW ZEALAND PRIME MINISTER: Thank you, and you've named some of them. Some of them are international like other nations. We of
course face the challenges of issues like climate change, but particularly acute for us as a member of the Pacific area. Some of the islands on our
back doorstep are already feeling acutely the impacts of climate change. But for us domestically we have issues around inequality, job poverty,
housing and affordability, all issues that we're very keen to tackle head on and put at the center of our government.
AMANPOUR: And I will go, you know, step by step through some of them, but I did actually want to ask you, because it is quite an achievement that we
have yet another elected woman leader in the world right at a time when women under the microscope, from the sexual allegations of Harvey
Weinstein, to the Me Too, to the U.K. parliament which has been asked by the prime minister to investigation allegations there, the gender pay gap,
do you feel a specific historic moment? And will your government address these issues in your own country?
ARDERN: Certainly, I feel a huge sense of responsibility, but I've had magnificent role models pass before me. Of course Jenny Shipley, our first
female prime minister, I'm closely followed by Helen Clark, a labor leader who led New Zealand for nine years and did a fantastic job. So I am by no
means the first.
We do have challenges, however, that we will tackle under my leadership including the gender pay gap in New Zealand which is acute, but also issues
of domestic and sexual violence, a particular issue for us as well as our representation across board level, in the private sector, but also in
politics as well.
We've started with a goal of making sure that within our party, we have 50 percent women represented in parliament. We've almost hit that goal this
election, but we'll continue to make sure that we lead as we would have other demonstrate what we need to achieve when it comes to women's
representation.
AMANPOUR: I want to play your reaction to a particularly, I don't know, maybe an out of place question that was asked about -- to you about being a
mother and a professional.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, elephant in the room is Mark Richardson, what do you want to say to them, because we've talked about it this morning,
haven't we, yeah, can you take this job, do you want kids, what about his whole question about, you know, work and babies and families?
ARDERN: Yes. And as I said it last night, I totally accept that I will be asked that question because I chose to be honest about it. I think a lot
of women face this dilemma in the workplace no matter what their professional job might be. They might be someone who is in part-time work
working multiple jobs, or they might be climbing a career ladder. They face this issue all the time. I'm not on my own there. I decided to talk
about it and it was my choice. So that means I'm happy to keep responding those questions. But.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't find that as an inappropriate question?
ARDERN: For me, no, because I opened myself up to it. But you, for other women, it is totally unacceptable in 2017 to say that women should have to
answer that question in the workplace, that it's unacceptable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But this is my point --
ARDERN: No, it's unacceptable in 2017.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: That was pretty emphatic and pretty definitive. Do you believe you really knocked that on the head now in your country?
ARDERN: Probably not. Certainly it is an issue that's come up for me personally in the role that I have in politics time and time again. But as
I said in that clip, you know, I accept that I've chosen to answer that question, so that question will keep coming, but for other women, I do know
it's an issue, but it will continue to be so until we speak openly about the fact that it's a woman's decision when she chooses to have a family.
It should not be something that's raised when her future career prospects are speculated on, or even if she enters into a job opportunity or an
interview.
But I absolutely believe that we'll be combating this for a little while to come, but we need to front it and weed it out where it occurs.
AMANPOUR: You're a self-professed, a self-confessed policy geek. I want to you on the international agenda because President Trump is coming over
to your region, to Asia. North Korea has said, again, that it may make a, you know, above-air nuclear test. There are obviously real tensions in
your region. What do you expect from the Trump trip and what would you say to the president, what is the region thinking about how this is going to be
resolved?
ARDERN: I think probably from at least New Zealand's perspective, the strong message we would sends that it's never too late to talk. We are of
course a nation who has championed the nuclear free movement. We are staunchly nuclear free and continue to promote nuclear nonproliferation.
That is the message we'll continue to send on the international stage whilst at the same time really encouraging the use of the multilateral
environment to make sure that we continue that dialog and encourage that dialog. It's of critical importance to our region.
AMANPOUR: Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, thank you so much indeed for joining us from Wellington in New Zealand, thank you.
ARDERN: Thank you for your time.
AMANPOUR: Meantime, here in Britain, Prime Minister Theresa May is dealing with fallout from sexual harassment claims against top cabinet members.
The defense secretary Michael Fallon became the country's first leading politician to quit saying in a letter to the Prime Minister that his
behavior in the past may have fallen short of the standards expected by the U.K. military that he leads.
The unfolding saga prompted Scotland's Tory leader, Ruth Davidson, to say enough is enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUTH DAVIDSON, SCOTTISH CONSERVATIVE LEADER: The time has broken on this note and these male-dominated professions, all around the male dominated
professions where the boys on locker room culture has prevailed and it's only a bit of a laugh has got to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And earlier this week, Britain's longest serving female MP labors Harriet Harman made an impassioned plea to parliament.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIET HARMAN, POLITICIAN: No one voted for me to come to this house to engage in high jinx. No one elected any of us to engage in sleazy,
oppressive behavior, so it has to be stopped and now is the time to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And afterwards, she joined me from Westminster and I asked her whether this now was a tipping point that would change the culture.
Harriet Harman, welcome to the program. You stood up there in Parliament this afternoon and made a really impassioned plea for methods to stop this.
How though, how do you fire MPs? They're elected.
HARMAN: Well, I think you've put your finger on it there. The problem is that there is also an imbalance of power between those who would make a
complaint alleging something against an MP and the MP who's in a position of power. You know, imagine if you're an intern or a young researcher,
you'd think if you made a complaint against an MP, your name would be plastered all over the newspaper and you'd probably never get a job again.
If you were a young woman reporter, making a complaint against a cabinet minister, immediately there would be an enormous attack on your integrity
and that's the only thing anybody would ever know about you, she's the one that made that allegation against the minister. So the difficulty is that
there is impunity, and with impunity, some, not all, obviously, but some will abuse that power. So we need to have a system which tackles that.
AMANPOUR: Right.
HARMAN: And there're two particular -- sorry.
AMANPOUR: Just to interrupt you, so does the prime minister's statement and her call for grievance procedure and mediation, does that go far
enough?
HARMAN: Well I think for a start, mediation is wrong. You shouldn't have mediation between somebody who's done sexual abuse and the victim. What
you need is actually support for the victim and the perpetrator held to account. So, I don't agree with the idea that mediation has any role to
play in this. There are two things though that are important.
One is that the complainant needs to know that there will be an independent element to the investigation. Because the trouble is that people all side
with people they know, and MPs all know each other, but they don't know the researcher or the intern. So the tendency always is to understand the
point of view of the person you know. And that's always bedeviled the problems of investigation in sexual abuse.
And secondly, there must be anonymity. If you think you're going to spread all over the newspapers for making a complaint and your integrity will be
publicly attacked by a powerful person, it's very difficult to make a complaint, so there's got to be anonymity for the complainant.
AMANPOUR: Let me play something that you told me happened to you when you were a student we talked several months ago.
HARMAN: There was this one lecturer who called me in and said, well, you're borderline in your degree between 2-1 and 2-2. But it will be
definitely a 2-2 unless you have sex with me.
AMANPOUR: He actually said that.
HARMAN: Absolutely.
AMANPOUR: I mean it's so flagrant, it was a while ago, do you think we are at a tipping point now specifically since the Weinstein revelations and now
that these floodgates have been opened including now in your parliament?
HARMAN: Well I think paradoxically, although the Weinstein allegations mostly relate to what's happened in the USA and relate mostly to the film
industry, they have created a context where now these allegations have come out in relation to the House of Commons. There is a sense that we must use
it as the tipping point. It must be a milestone moment where we now take action.
The difficulty partly is in relation to politics is that it's such a tribal thing. So basically the Labor people all want to stick together, support
each other and only criticize sexual harassment if it comes out from amongst Tories. And actually we've got to get over our tribal affiliations
and recognize that any misogyny, homophobia or sexual assault, whichever side it comes from including our own side, we must be absolutely tough on
it.
AMANPOUR: And what do you say to people who, you know, there are some who are saying, oh, this is a witch hunt now. It's just, you know, anything
that moves is accused of abuse and harassment?
HARMAN: It is quite the opposite of a witch hunt. It could not be further from a witch hunt. The reality is not innocent people being witch hunted.
The reality is decades of sexual abuse and oppression which has gone unheld to account and now is the moment that that must change.
AMANPOUR: Harriet Harman, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
HARMAN: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And when we come back, the disabled protestors putting everything on the line, rare insight in a new film from Bolivia when we
return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. It is an incredible image, disabled protestors dangling from a bridge. It's in Bolivia. Filmmakers
Violate Ayala and Dan Fallshaw decided to find out why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in foreign language).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: This incredible story and the documentary is aptly called The Fight, and it was shortlisted for the prestigious Rory Peck Awards here in
London where I met the filmmakers.
Violeta and Dan, welcome to the program. This is an extraordinary topic, who would have even imagined that this kind of protest would happen and
that you would want to film it? What made you want to do this?
VIOLETA AYALA, FILMMAKER: Because there were -- people with disabilities were hanging on their wheelchairs on the bridges just three, four blocks
from where I lived in Cochabamba. And they've been protesting for months already, but no one listened and not even I. I knew, like I saw them in
the plaza, but the moment that they hanged themselves from their wheelchairs from the bridges, I'm like, okay, there's something really bad
happening here.
Until then I didn't even -- I didn't even realize what was life for a person with disability in Bolivia.
AMANPOUR: It is incredible that it just hits you in the face, literally you saw it right in your backyard. Were they getting nothing? I mean how
desperate were they?
AYALA: People, in my country, to have a wheelchair is a luxury. They only wanted to speak to the president, so they asked him for this stipend, this
little bit of money that will allow them to live with dignity because they are dying in Bolivia, people with disabilities. There is no accessibility.
Like the toilets, public toilets, public crossings, everything, like everything is zero.
AMANPOUR: So Dan, when it came to actually documenting this, you filmed this incredible journey, this caravan of wheelchairs, but it was hundreds
of kilometers and it took more than a month for them to reach La Paz, the capital, from the city. How was it, just trying to film them?
DAN FALLSHAW, FILMMAKER: Well we followed them from Cochabamba to La Paz which is close to 400 kilometers and it took them 35 days. And we were
there with them pretty much every step of the way. To walk with them every day, to get up at 6 AM, get on the road by sunup and then we'd walk 20 to
30 kilometers everyday, I had a camera to carry, but these guys are in their wheelchairs.
AMANPOUR: And then, you know, as it's been said before, we are accustomed to seeing protesters being met by heavy-handed riot police and you know,
the authority of the state. But to see people in wheelchairs being attacked by shields, by batons, you know, water cannon and maybe even tear
gas, I don't know. I mean, did you expect that?
FALLSHAW: I assumed when we set out from Cochabamba that they would arrive in La Paz, the government would sit down and talk to them.
AMANPOUR: I mean this is just -- what is happening there?
FALLSHAW: This was a day when they decided to protest -- this is another day, but they were protesting, they got naked, they wore nappies, they were
saying that we can't even afford to buy nappies, so we're going to show you with ourselves in nappies. And then one of the guys -- and this is the day
with the water cannons. They tried to get into La Plaza. They wanted to force their way in to speak to the government.
And it was part of the protest. And they were met with what looked like hundreds of riot police and these massive water cannons.
AMANPOUR: I mean honestly it's so shocking. Did you find that the police were engaged, you know, wholeheartedly or did they feel any shame at all of
having to do this?
FALLSHAW: Some of the police were very -- it was tough for everybody. I mean I saw a police crying. I saw a police pushing the other police
officers to do what we're saying.
AMANPOUR: These people are so desperate and they seem so left out by society that I was shocked to see this little bit of an interview that you
took with one of the protestors describing how his own family were discussing essentially euthanizing him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I've never heard anything like that before.
FALLSHAW: Miguel is -- he's a very strong-willed young man and he was one of the strongest leaders in the protest. And for him to come out and take
to the streets after that showed -- I mean he's a survivor and I think.
AYALA: It's also -- I wouldn't go on judging families because in a country where it has no accessibility, no support and no acknowledgement that they
are people and they exist, how you do living in a -- he lives in Potosi, in the highest place of Bolivia, so how you do with accessibility alone, his
mother is a housekeeper. So it's a very difficult situation.
You have disability mixed with poverty, and mixed with racism because a lot of the people in this part is very indigenous. So that's what it comes all
together.
AMANPOUR: Well, you put them on the map with this film, The Fight, and I presume the fight continues. Violeta and Dan, thank you very much indeed
for sharing with us.
FALLSHAW: Thanks a lot.
AYALA: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: It's an amazing insight into an incredible story. And in a moment, Italian schools are preparing their students for a thoroughly
modern challenge, the fight against fake news in Roma when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: And finally, tonight, now, tech titans are used to being the toast of the town, but this week saw three of them called in front of
Congress. Google, Facebook and Twitter are finally owning up to the fact that they played an enormous role in allowing Russia to meddle in the
American election last year.
Facebook, after initially saying 126 million Americans were reached by content from a Russian troll farm, now says 150 million people may in fact
have in fact been exposed. And while the optics showed contrition, the companies are still resisting calls to be better gatekeepers for content
they push out to their issues.
So some governments are taking action into their own hands. Imagine a grassroots rebellion against fake news taking hold in the heart and the
home of Veritas. Proof, Italy is rolling out a new curriculum across 8,000 schools for 4 million students aimed at protecting eyes, ears and of course
minds. We got a glimpse inside this Roman classroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It's education Italian style. Not more Maths or English but classes on how to tackle fake news for the most impressionable.
LAURA BOLDRINI, PRESIDENT OF LOWER HOUSE PARLIAMENT ITALY: (Speaking in foreign language)
AMANPOUR: Laura Boldrini, President of the lower house of parliament, is spearheading the initiative.
BOLDRINI: It's a project that aims at giving our students the tools, the tools to defend themselves from fake news. Fake news are like drops of
poison. And we drink water, the infected water every day, but we don't even realize that we are becoming ourselves infected by that poison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).
AMANPOUR: The cause highlights the danger that fake news poses to society and democracy and it aims to give students 10 tips on how to protect
themselves from the virus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually I both get my news from some website of some paper like the Corriere or The Republica, but especially I take it from the
social networks like Facebook. And especially in this case it's very important for a teenager to be able to recognize the fake news.
AMANPOUR: Like sharing only verified stories and not being afraid to fact check, cross check and double check every story they click on. If a story
sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And none other than Facebook itself is working with the Ministry of Education.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: High tech disinformation is a key priority for Facebook simply because our objective is actually to make sure that people
have access to information that is relevant to them. We shouldn't be working on this alone. It's very important that all stakeholders that are
involved in the fight against fake news actually work together on it.
AMANPOUR: Italy joins a global fight that knows no borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: An important effort at a dangerous time. Fake news has just been designated word of the year by Collins Dictionary. And that's it for
our Week in Review. And remember you can listen to our podcast, see us online at amanpour.com and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thanks for
watching and goodbye from London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
